Modern War

>>31891131
You're missing the point. You know that episode where the main cast were bichting that the armor was rolling by rather than helping them?

That same armor reaching bagdhad ended the war while the generic mismanaged marines were off fighting achmed the goatherder. War is full of incompetence, we just happen to have a somewhat less incompetent military than our enemies.

>>31891395
No, the LAV scene was just fine. That happens all the time, and should happen.
The airfield "assault" on the other hand, is not in the ballpark of fine. If even one of those T-72 was up with only a gunner inside, he would have killed the entire battalion.

>>31891450
In the larger scheme of things, the us invasion of Iraq was a well coordinated and well fought operation, at least until the occupation began.

Despite tactical mistakes like the assault on the airfield, the incompetence of the Iraqis makes captain America look like Eisenhower

>>31891524
Yeah, sure, let's count the Iraqis as any kind of standard for anyone. I'm just wondering - if there's a real conventional war tomorrow, will the opposition be as incompetent as us.

>>31891547
Absolutely they will. Putin relies very heavily on special forces because he knows his regulars and conscripts are not up to western standards. China is slashing the size of its ground forces because it is oversized, top heavy, and not trained to a western standard.

The only nations that are in the same ballpark as the us right now in terms of c3 and the quality of their non coms are worst Korea, France, and the U.K.

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>>31891547
Probably.

With domestic infrastructure destroyed it will devolve into peasants fighting each other with rusty AKs and different flag patches.

I fully expect both nations to give their new conscripts paper suits and make them fight in the radiation.

>it'll be over by Christmas!
>we'll be home for thanksgiving!

It's never over as quickly as you think it is.

>>31891582
Either the camera angle is bad or those boobs are fake.

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Read the damn book.
The point of sending them off in shitty humvees to tour the country was to bait out some hypothetical T-72 brigades

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>>31891602
>T-72 brigades

You mean a town?

>>31891621
That town is advancing. We need arty, danger close

>>31891578
>North Korea
>good at anything other that fasting
>a threat no anyone including the South
pick one
>>31891628
I legitimately laughed until I had tears in my eyes.
>Yeah, it's a town.
Of my fucking God!

>>31891648
I said worst Korea. That means South Korea. How new are you?

Anyways the south's military is great. I also forgot Israel in the list of competent combatants with field experience

>>31891648
Worst korea, I think, well I know he means south korea and he's right
> The joke
> Your head

>>31891131
>>31891602
Didn't their whole push through the desert actually tie-up a bunch of Guards and Fedayeen that would've otherwise gone to reinforce Bagdahd?

>>31891621
>>31891628
Always wondered did they kill everyo e i the town?

>>31891724
Yup. They dropped a dozen Moabs on the town, then dropped malfunctioning cluster munitions on the ruins designed to look like candy and children's toys.

>>31891724
No, they blasted an empty wasteland, dropped five million dollars worth of anti-tank munitions of it. The was nothing there. Nothing.

>>31891724
in the episode, they explicitly state that the airstrikes were called in 15k from their position, whereas the town was 30-40k out. The following episode starts with Alpha company going off to the same town trying to gather intel about the tanks (the airstrike was called in by one of Alpha's platoon commanders, hence why Brad didn't do anything to stop it) and the following scene takes place:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOgjBgQmK_0

There's absolutely no excuse to have officers like Encino Man or Captain America in command of anything other than rear a rear echelon company. You can't pretend it's okay for an officer, let alone a front line commander to not know how to call in fire missions or confuse an enemy armored assault with a TOWN.

https://youtu.be/oodTuhaLYpU?t=54

War has always been fucking crazy on the ground hommie....

>>31891838
>You can't pretend it's okay for an officer, let alone a front line commander to not know how to call in fire missions
>or confuse an enemy armored assault with a TOWN.
Why not?

>>31891886
It doesn't fucking matter if the other side is even worse than we are. Don't tell me fucking demented retards like Captain America is the best thing they could find to lead the soldiers of 1st Recon. They would be better off making Fick company commander and putting NCOs in charge of platoons. Fucking Trombley would make a better company commander than Encino Man.

People love this HBO jerk like fantasy football.

>>31891934
Try again, this time in English.

>>31891917
Captain America had a Full Bird uncle or some shit, that's why he was in charge.

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>>31891524
Back when I was in college, my professor was teaching us about the Phillipine American
War and how the Marines ran a successful and short counter-insurgency.

The way they won was brutality and slaughtering everyone including civilians without mercy en masse until they all gave up.

Later I was talking to him about it, and he hinted at the idea that the main reason we keep failing at these counter-insurgencies, is because we aren't allowed to outright slaughter civilian populations en masse.

Is this true? I really feel like carpet bombing in Baghdad would end insurgency in Baghdad. House to house slaughter like the good old days seems to make sense when you want to break the will of a population.

Was he wrong?

>>31891131
>Without support

Pretty much. Fortunately there's always a bubba in the platoon to work on Vic's.

I never saw support once. Unless you count the mail truck.

>>31891131
>Jesus Christ, is this really how it goes down these days?

It's a TV show depicting a secondhand account of a very tiny part of a conflict that happened 13 years ago.

So, no. That's not how it goes down these days.

Any other questions, OP?

>>31891964
Television and reporters, they brought the war home.

the only recent REAL war was the Ukraine conflict in 2014

american desert adventures do not qualify as modern combat in any way unless you consider swatting flies combat as well

>>31891991
True to some extent, but I heard that during the invasion there were no ROE and there simply aren't any videos of it happening. The thunder run of abrams and A-10's in Baghdad is also not documented on video and I'm sure it was brutal.

Isn't it more accurate to say it's against international law to just slaughter a population into submission? Isn't that the bigger factor?

>>31891917
Volunteer militaries are kinda like that. All the smart people are put into higher value roles, so what's left for grunt work are a collection of retards, a few combat enthusiasts and a veritable lot of unwanteds.

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>>31891964
He was right. History is choke full of insurgencies crushed by brutality of the state, never to rise again. The Boer war is the best example of a fully successful COIN operation. However, to crush an insurgency, you must be ready do go all the way, no half-measures. This is not something modern Western society will ever condone.
>>31891985
At what age did you first realize you liked men?

>>31892036
So is it safe to say that any modern counter-insurgency following international law is a waste of fucking time?

>>31891131
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-azomRgBqQ

>>31892013
Not him. But my DI was there for the Iraq invasion. When asked about ROEs he said quote "We killed men, we killed women and children, we killed dogs and cats" then he looked around thoughtfully and said, "Fuck... we killed everything".

>>31891964

Back in the days we weren't shy about imperialism. If you want to own the shit out of something, brutality tends to be more acceptable.

These days were are spreading the freedoms...can't successfully sell that lie to the world when you're just wiping out populations

>>31892036
>At what age did you first realize you liked men?

I'm pretty sure you're the only fag here, OP.

>>31892060
>a grown man getting upset about someone else (not him) accidentally killing a cat

What a weak piece of shit! LOL

When did officers become managers rather than lead warriors?

Why can you look back and see enlisted men carrying off officers in a "HURRAH" moment but now it's like, who fucking cares you have a shiny rank insignia and some weird foreign medals?

>>31892049
Yes. Generation Kill actually gives a good idea of what modern American COIN is like: a half-assed, misaimed and mismanaged "hearts and minds" campaign that burns money and does more harm than good, combined with inevitable numerous civilian casualties from airstrikes and stray fire, and you have a recipe for disaster. This sort of "COIN" is in fact inherently counterproductive and guaranteed to strengthen insurgency and turn locals against you. Doing nothing at all would be a superior option. Never being there would be an even better one.

>>31892060
goddamn man, it's amazing how well that's been memory-holed. No one seems to know that and yet it's 100% true.

>>31892063
I wish they'd drop the obvious lie that it's for spreading freedom, might as well just be honest and say it's imperial expansion. I know I personally would be more supportive of our foreign policy if our politicians and generals were honest about intent and motivation for these wars of conquest.

>>31892083
Do you even reading comprehend? What the fuck are you saying?

>>31892106
Well put, so if a bunch of dudes on a Armenian bird song identification database and a liberal arts professor can easily see this, why the fuck don't our leaders see this?

Is it intentional? I refuse to believe the people at the top of the ladder are this goddamn stupid, and I can see why they'd want drawn out and inefficient war.

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>>31892102
>When did officers become managers rather than lead warriors?
Since the dawn of time? What kind of bullshit Hollywood idea do you have of military leadership? Its 99% managing a bunch of retarded privates who will find a way to break what shouldn't be broken, lose what must not be lost and fuck up most everything. Always has been, always will be.

>>31892115

Damn dude you must be absolutely fucking retarded if you can't piece together what that post was about.

Fuck off back to your faggy DI butt-buddy and get some cocksucking practice in. You're done here.

>>31892126
>why the fuck don't our leaders see this?
They do see it, of course. It's intentional and planned.

>and I can see why they'd want drawn out and inefficient war.
More money to military contractors, to the military-industrial complex and thus more money into the pockets of the politicians. Nevermind the spreading and protection of the US sphere of influence.

>>31892126
Because we're not shackled by the media and political correctness.
If a military was to begin COIN operations, effective COIN operations where the ROE is loose, then the media would be all over it, talking about senseless killing.
And then support back home dries up, politicians try to stay in power by pandering to their voters. Just like Vietnam.

>>31892102
>When did officers become managers

That's exactly what a commissioned officer is.

You don't know the first thing about military organization, do you? Like literally not even a single detail. You're just regurgitating things you thought you learned from a videogame and then throwing a tantrum about it.

Why don't you learn how the world actually works before opening your mouth to complain about it? It'll save you a lot of trouble later in life.

>>31891547
If you read militery history then the answer is generally yes.
Most of the world militeries are pretty incompetent to one degree or another if you compare then to the well oiled machines of late ww2.
The tactical and strategical planning and execution of the Russians (memed to be called bad) late in the war, would trump most such of any modern military. Just by sheet experience of the entire armed force.

The thing that guides the military is laziness. Troops would be lazy fucks as long as they can get away with it.

>>31892145
You might be retarded. Neither him or myself were upset about a cat. Get tested for idiocy.

>>31892159
Memoirs of Second World War and Vietnam vets are video games? Damn. Don't see grown men so fucking sorrowful over an officer dying in the conventional side of the military nowadays but alright.

>>31892126
US doesn't have a singular leadership. Like every other country, it is ruled by dozens of oligarchs, who all have conflicting interests and agendas. Maybe Exxon Mobil doesn't want a war at this time, but Boeing does and has better lobby, and so we have a war, even if not everyone at the top agrees on it.

>>31892102
Since always, they're there to get their men ready, relay information, and problem solving in the field. Same as a shift manager at the local McDonalds. Except the officer all to often has to remind his men not to fuck the deep fryer and other day care/caretaker esque roles.

>>31892171
Because US COIN operations are not warfare. A NCO or CO who is atleast moderately competent and truly cares for his men will always be loved and adored by his troops. Especially if that leader was involved during their training. The same situations will rise once the US gets into an actual war again.

>>31892145
Not him but you're fucking retarded dude. He never said or implied that the DI was sad about it.

>>31892171

Stop talking immediately.

You're done here. Leave the thread.

>>31892181
True, but ultimately it's the secretary of defense, joint chiefs of staff, president and the rest of the National Security Council getting in a room and deciding whether something is a good idea or not. There's no way that the idea of a half assed and holds barred insurgency was brought up and no one pointed out that it would obviously be a fucking shithole mess.

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>>31891964
>>31892049
Rebellions and insurgency absolutely can and were crushed. It's only a question of how far you're willing and able to go.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tambov_Rebellion

Mass hostage-taking, scorched earth tactics, death camps, mass executions, use of artillery, armored trains and chemical weapons on civilians by direct order of the President won't look too good on CNN.

>>31892169
>>31892228
>I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOUR POST WAS ABOUT BUT I AM GOING TO GET INCREDIBLY UPSET ABOUT IT AND REPLY REPEATEDLY FOR THE NEXT SIX HOURS IN AN INCREASINGLY SHRILL AND HOMOSEXUAL TONE

Lol get suicided kid, if you can't handle some mean words on the internet you can't handle life

>>31892287
It's two people, no one is upset or offended, we're just pointing out that you're a squishy brained retard. Unfuck yourself. No I'm not wasting anymore time on you, maybe the guy you initially responded to has the patience, but I don't.

>>31892312
>I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOUR POST WAS ABOUT BUT I AM GOING TO GET INCREDIBLY UPSET ABOUT IT AND REPLY REPEATEDLY FOR THE NEXT SIX HOURS IN AN INCREASINGLY SHRILL AND HOMOSEXUAL TONE

>>31892277
They were not thinking things through as they invaded Iraq.
Or they thought it would turn out like Japan and Europe given enough effort.
By the time it was obvious they were wrong... ego wouldn't let Bush pull out, and media + public wouldn't allow balls to the wall aggression.

Obama did pull out.

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They have always, and will always, be cannon fodder.

Nobody gives a shit.

>>31892333
autism

>>31892342
Force recon, or marines in general?

>>31891578
Also Canada, and Switzerland

So where's a good place to watch this, anymore? Not on Netflix or Hulu or the like, and I don't feel like buying DVD's.

>>31892355
>Force
Well that's not the word I meant to put there, but whatever.
Recon or marines in general*?

>>31892312
Nah, he's a special kind of stupid. I'm done also.

>>31892334
They knew man, Cheney predicted exactly what would happen 10 years before the invasion and Rumsfeld is even more intelligent and versed on these topics. I hate to ask a question and then give you my own answer, but as I type this out and get other responses the answer is too obvious.

They knew it would be a clusterfuck, and they went ahead because they knew we'd maintain control regardless of length and death toll, and they knew it would make them a dickton of money from their investments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YENbElb5-xY

>>31891687
They were a screen for two regimental combat teams that blitzed straight to Al Kut, tying up two Iraqi armored divisions who might have reinforced Baghdad. Then they rolled North and took a dump on an Iraqi battalion in Baqubah.

The tactics were often retarded but the strategy was flawless. Then they forgot to plan for the occupation and all that strategy went to fucking shit.

>>31892367
HBO GO

>>31892387
huh.
In that case I just can't figure out why we went into Iraq. Nothing makes sense.

>>31892355
Any member of the marines. It's a meme branch.

>>31892449
Saddam did want to make Arabs trade oil in gold instead of the Dollar, didn't he?

>>31892449
For money, propping up the petrodollar, letting our oil companies pump their fields, money to the MIC and strategic bases in the Middle East.

>>31892468
That's kind of the idea I've got of it. Does the same job as the Army, only with double the casualties.
The Marines is intentionally the meme branch to attract all the mouthbreating motards, right? Keep them out of the proper branches.

>>31892468
>>31892486
27 replies, 78 posts. No samefagging going on here.

>>31892501
ur a fool

>>31892501
Believe what you want, anon. Won't change the truth of what the Marines are like.

>>31891793
did they do that to make the audince at ease cos you know there was a tv antena there and if there were no people there why would there be a lights ?

>>31892518
I'm sorry the Marine that banged your mom wasn't kinder to you.

>>31891917
some guys said that cap a was a great leader/comander but the combat stress got to him

so he made colonel away from the battle field where he could be of good use

>>31892552
So you admit the Marine Corps is shit, then?

>>31892468
>meme branch
I thought that was the air force

>>31892580
Not at all. Shitty to your mom maybe, but I heard she does ass play.

>>31892126
>Is it intentional?
Yes. These skirmishes in the desert are designed to keep the machine of war alive.

>>31892596
Marines fuck corpses, do they? That's a new low, even for them, I suppose.

>>31892618
Sure. Dig her ass up, I'll double tap it while yelling oorah.

>>31892636
Savage stone-breaker

>>31892636
Oh, so that's what the skullfucking is about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WmaAl6hPzw

>>31892618
>boohoo my mums ded
lol

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>>31892646
She's not. I'm just shitposting.
Though she'll probably soon be. She's a fat diabetic fuck with a heart condition.

>>31892660
>She's a fat diabetic fuck with a heart condition.
[spoiler]Just like you?[/spoiler]

>>31892676
Nah. I got fit after I moved out and stopped eating their worthless cooking.

>>31891131
Look at this faggot

Thinks he's a fucking general now because he watch that shitty overrated marine tv show.

kys

>>31891964
Russia tried that in afghanistan. Guess how it turned out

>>31892471
>>31892481
Should be easier and faster ways to get him to comply, or assassinate him.

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>>31891964
Yes he was right.
Can't control the civilians if they don't fear you.
Take away the water, the fish are easy to catch.

>>31892770
We tried everything short of invasion, didn't work unfortunately.

>>31892737
I have more faith in the United States than I have in a collapsing Soviet Union during the 80's.

>>31892847
The Soviet Union went full on razing villages and summary executions, in addition to mass graves. After a few years of that the soviets were not pushed out by Mujahideen alone but a truly popular uprising

>>31892590
we don't need any branches aside from the Army and Navy tbqphwyrnfal

>>31892878
Well, to be fair. The Mujahideen had the best help they could get.

>>31892770
Apparently the CIA tried to assassinate Saddam several times but failed to do so. He was constantly on the move, had several look-alikes and trusted only close relatives.

>>31892481
by which you mean giving the oil fields to foreign billionaires some of our senior leadership has an investment in?

"our oil companies" didn't really happen afaik

>>31893118
at least Trump would have taken the oil and used it to fund the war effort

>>31893118
No, I mean Exxon Mobil, Texaco and BP is largely owned by American shareholders. Don't forget the fucking massive Haliburton contract to re-build the country.

>inb4 you use the fact that China has more separate contracts as of 2009 despite the fact that the yield was equal to China

It was an act of imperialism and that's fine.

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>>31892287
>Trolls trolling trolls in an infinite cycle of trolling

If you never noticed, pretending to be retarded is never funny.

>>31893133
I don't get this 'Trump is already rich, he won't do things just for money' mindset.

Also Bush and Cheney were already extremly wealthy - those people never reach the point where they don't want to have more.

>>31892367
T O R R E N T
O
R
R
E
N
T

Protip (All): I don't mean to insult anyone but, it is possible connect your PC to your TV to use it as a monitor with the correct cables. You can also use a media server if you have a device that is already connected to the TV. As long as PC isn't potato,1080p movies can play smoothly. Welcome aboard, pirate.

>>31891395

>Ended the war

Yeah how's that going?

>>31891578
I'd add in Israel and Jordan.

>>31891917
Been awhile since I watched.

Didn't gravel-throat explain to Rolling Stone why he didn't shit-can Captain America or Encino man? Like, he was aware of their alleged incompetence, but they hadn't fucked up bad enough yet, or he didn't have enough evidence to actually take any disciplinary action.

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>>31892145
>You're done here.

>>31891964

Yes. The reason we don't do that is because slaughtering people because they don't want us on their land goes against the values of the constitution.

The yellow journalism of the day demonized the Spanish for their treatment of the Cuban rebellion.

Spanish-American war ends and we get the Philippines. We try to make a colony, they want independence, violence ensues. America resorts to brutal Spanish tactics. Hypocrisy abounds.

The conduct of the Philippine "insurrection" was HIGHLY criticized by the American public.

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>>31892145
kys you illiterate sperg

>>31891964

That would be a hard sell to the American public, or the global citizenry either.

The United States is the one that created the anarchy in the first place, as soon as soldiers start openly killing civilians just to brutally end the war, is the moment the American public turns against the United States military.

>>31892270
>>31895029
>>31895112
>>31892145
>you're done here

Is this a new autism may may I missed?

>>31893422
Oh, I'm well aware, I've used a TV as a monitor since like 2010. I've pirated tons of shit, but they finally figured out that convenience guides commerce with steaming and shit. Most people never would have pirated stuff if it was all readily available and not exorbitantly expensive, and after a while they caught on. It's so much easier to open a new tab, click, search, click, and be watching the damn thing than sifting through shit and finding a working torrent in the right language and quality, anymore.

Funny how things have changed.

>>31891591
Nope

That camera angle is perfect

>>31891628
..danger close?

>>31891964
The Nazis tried it in Poland and Yugoslavia.

Between the Soviets, literally 25% of the population of Poland was killed in between 1939 and 1945, and they were still fighting to the end.

>>31891131
>marines
>supplies

Serpentine!

>>31891985
actually it was a first hand account
Evan "Rolling Stone" Wright was there to witness most of that shit. The only things that were second-hand was conversations between other soldiers and officers

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>>31891131
>Jesus Christ, is this really how it goes down these days?

Only since forever.
Aside from that warfare's always been fucked up, stupid and full of random acts of idiocy since time immemorial. Now you've got 1st hand accounts of just how dumb it can get with televised versions of it.

>>31892083
Would feel worse about killing a cat or dog than I would over a muslim.

>>31891917
>He thinks the military is a meritocracy

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Is there a generation kill / band of brothers style show about other conflicts, like Vietnam?

>>31898720
generation war for the eastern front

>>31891131
Thats the last thing the enemy would expect!

>>31898720
>>31898731
I tried generation war thinking it was like a Nazi BoB/gen kill/pacific but it's just turned out to be german cuck series and they barely focused on the soldier brothers

When I was in afghan I can remember being sent into a few hornet's nests for no reason other than because some officer wanted to tag along and earn a few ribbons.
Usually went like this:
>MJR douche: "I wanna go HERE" (points at map)
>okay. Why.
>"security patrol"
>so you want us to drag you through enemy territory for no reason
>"n-n-o.... its a SECURITY PATROL"
>right. You havent earned a CAR yet and want an excuse to shoot your gun. Roger.
>"no, guys, you dont get it, its a SECURITY PATROL"
>uh-huh. One we just HAPPEN to be be doing through a VERY hostile area with literally ZERO targets or intel to act on or any mission parameters with a Major who is realising he will spend the rest of his career pushing papers. Gotcha.

At this point they would get pissed off at our sarcasm and passive aggression and say some dumb moto shit like:

>"WE IS DA MUH-RHEENZ, WE AR HURR TA KILL DA EMENY!"
>yes sir. Roger that. But we usually try to ACCOMPLISH something when we fight him, and your medal of honor run through a taliban bed-down community is interrupting a raid on a financier's compound.
>just fucking say you want a gunfight so you can quit getting made fun of for never seeing one by the staff ncos hanging out at the coffe machine.

We actually had a gunny have this conversation with a major from regiment as he stood there in his freshly starched cammies after his helo dropped him off at our god forsaken PB.

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>>31891582
UHHN

>>31898739
I prefer generation war because it doesn't put itself to comical lengths in order to proceed with the story, in BoB with that scene where the lieutenant runs up to the road and there's hundreds of germans laying infront of him, and not a single one shot at him, it's the same shit with tons of other scenes, it portrays the krauts as incompetent

it's more like a disney tale while g-war is the documentary that is given some freedom

>>31898826
Please tell me this is a good invented story.

>>31898862
Naw its real. We had 3 missions for no other reason than because of the aformentioned ribbon chasing.

In the Marine corps everyone on deployment secretly wants to be an infantry lower enlisted.

We pick up ribbons and medals at a stupid rate, and get the coolest bragging rights, its pretty much the only thing going for us.

On occaision some higherup would come out to try to live out his saving private ryan fantasies for a day or two.

The mouthy gunny had only 6 months left after the deployment until retirement and gave zero fucks, he had specifically not been promoted due to his willingness to mouth off to officers and call them on thier bullshit.

>>31898943
Based NCO.

>>31898943
Well, at least he got to live out his fantasies before retirement.

>>31892737
Russia had loads of hearts and minds projects, read up on stuff instead of just spouting memes.

>>31892126
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI-S7odN8tw

The book is obviously more comprehensive and also goes into the specifics of "why not kill everything" but the vid summarizes it decently.
Don't know what minute though.

>>31899500
Knowing the minute would be really helpful since I don't have an hour to sift through this whole video.