Gettysburg

>>31867567

Gettysburg is a battle that happened

>>31867567
There was a lot of fighting.

Lots of white Americans died

>>31867567
The good guys won

>>31867607
Say that to my face yankee, not on top of a hill and see what happens.

File: mostlythis.png (126KB, 1396x690px) Image search: [Google]

126KB, 1396x690px

>>31867567
mostly this.

>>31867631
>>31867607
Lordy my! Remember the 6 million homes Sherman burned to the ground! You filthy northerns owe us restitutions!

>>31867601
And not enough blacks

>>31867567
>Gettysburg
>not superior revolutionary war
YORKTOWN NIGGA

>>31867567
If you're into metal, listen to the last three songs on Iced Earth's album The Glorious Burden
give a pretty good account of the battle, IIRC the accompanying videos are pictures of leaders mentioned and troop positions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M155Er6PFz0

High Water Mark is a GOAT song too, the intro always gets me fucking pumped

File: 63-7-3-the-high-water-at-gettysburg_detail.jpg (169KB, 1024x768px) Image search: [Google]

169KB, 1024x768px

>>31867849
>The Glorious Burden
Mah nigga.

>>31867863
it's on my workout playlist, the guitar and especially the drumwork are fucking amazing, not to mention the vocals.

What does /k/ think of the 1993 film? I think it has some faults but I'm drawn to it, above everything else, because some of the acting is amazingly good.

>>31867567

I'm going to be unfun and actually try to answer the OP.

Gettysburg was a "minor" skirmish that escalated into a full on, multi day battle. Lee's Army of Northern Virginia made an incursion into the North in order to do damage and pressure the North to sue for peace, Gordon Meade's Army of the Potomac was in pursuit, but hadn't caught Lee yet.

As for the battlefield, the town of Gettysburg is to the north, then there's two roughly parallel ridges running north/south. Seminary Ridge to the west, Cemetery Ridge to the east.

On the first day, Union and Confederate skirmishers and cavalry met to the northwest of town. Outnumbered, the union forces retreated to the south of town and set up on Cemetery hill at the very north of Cemetery ridge, then called in for reinforcements. The Confederates pursued and set up their own positions on seminary ridge, as well as trying to envelope the Union position from the North.

Reinforcements from both sides started pouring in, and more and more of the two ridges became fortified with troops. The Confederates tried to extend the line using their temporary numerical advantage to outflank the Union lines. Specifically they tried for two hills at the very southern edge of Cemetery ridge called "little" and "big" Round Top. Having these two ridges would allow the Confederates to get artillery there and shoot anywhere they want on the union lines. Union held the position after fierce fighting.

Lee was on limited time, since he was in Union territory and the Union had many more reinforcements on the way. In order to win before he was totally outnumbered, he ordered Pickett's charge right down the middle of the Union lines, which failed. With no more troop reserves to make an attack, Lee retreated. Meade was too cautious to fully pursue and let most of the Army of Northern Virginia retreat to safety.

>>31867659
You deserved it and more

>>31867659

Ring the good old bugle boys and sing another song
Sing it with the spirit that which starts the world along
Sing it as we used to sing it fifty-thousand strong
While we were marching through Georgia

>>31867567
It's a little complicated, because over the 3-day period (especially Day 2), there were a lot of different actions going on at different parts of the line.

The '90s movie, for example, focused on Little Round Top for Day 2; however, the north flank was the site of equally desperate fighting that lasted well into the night. There were any number of instances where the Confederate forces very nearly broke through and turned either or both flanks throughout the day, any of which would have rendered the whole federal position untenable.

Rather than reinforce these efforts on Day 3, or attempt to spread forces even thinner to flank the ends of the line, Lee decided that the bulk of the federal troops must have been moved to reinforce those ends, and that the center was vulnerable to a direct thrust.

However, insufficient preparatory bombardment, a wood fence within rifle range, flanking fire from federal batteries, and, in the end, the fact that the center had *not* been bled to reinforce the ends, cost Pickett his division--and, in all likelihood, the South the war.

Day One: General Heath (Confederates) is like "Yo, we need some shoes, we're gonna go get them from cashtown, a burb of gettysburg, a Gettysburb if you will."

Meanwhile General Buford finds some good ground in the same area, and he's been tracking the confederates for awhile so he knows they're coming his way. So he occupys the ground. Lovely.

Heath attacks thinking the force in the town he's moving into is just militia, but it's cavalry. What he attacks with is too weak to defeat the dismounted cavalry in good defensive positions.

Then the First division shows up led by John "badass with a boring name" Reynolds. They spread out to reoccupy both buford's old positions and a stand of trees to the south. Heath thinks he's gonna be attacking tired cavalry but instead he's hitting fresh infantry. Poor Harry.

Too bad Reynolds gets shot in the head like 2 seconds later. Oh well, everyone is setting up and it's going great, but then the 3rd or 4th corps (can't remember) shows up to occupy the right of the 1st corps and a few confederates insult their mamas or something and they just pussy out. Then everyone starts to pussy out. Not looking good.

South winning so far, but they make a massive error by failing to occupy the hill that the union troops deserted, anyway. That's Day one.

Day two: Lee orders attacks on the Union Flanks. Little and Big Round top happens. Two major bayonet charges happen, the famous one from the 20th Maine and one to their right led by...idk someone. Fun fact: The extreme right of the army was led by another Maine Man, Adelbert Ames, who was the first commander of the 20th Maine.

Lee's attack is really slow to get started and uncoordinated as hell they step off like mid afternoon. They're still almost successful because the union is actually really bad at their jobs. Still, the Union holds the ground.

1/2

>>31868321
>Cost the South the war

The Union was always going to win, barring a foreign intervention aiding the Confederates. The Union possessed practically every strategic advantage (Manpower, Manufacturing, Naval, Infrastructure, a diversified economy, and Political power). The South never stood a chance.

2/2

Day 3: Lee says "well shit dawg, I attacked both sides, maybe I should just leave because they're in a well defended position....JK LET'S CHARGE THEIR MIDDLE" and he fucks up so hard that it ruins him forever. Seriously, Lee ordering Picket to attack the union center forever ruins his reputation in my eyes. He looked at the ground, knew who held the ground in front of him. Knew that union cannon occupied the heights to the union left and right and said "I'm gonna attack this, because my army is that good".

So Picket's division attacks across a mile of open ground, while getting shelled from both flanks uphill into the sun. It would have only been more retarded if the confederates decided not to use guns.

This goes exactly as well as you think. Lee has to run away from PA and fights defensively the rest of the war.

Fuck Lee.

>>31868321
>cost south the war
The south lost long before gettysburg.
The best they could possibly accomplish there was a pyrrhic victory with irreplaceable losses while every day they fell further behind.
A southern battle victory would have done nothing but to temporarily extend the date at which the South was put down.

It's a very similar situation to pacific ww2.
No single battle stood any chance of flipping the state of things.

http://www.combinedfleet.com/economic.htm

they do a number analysis of how quick to replace even a large defeat that never happened
>Even if US had lost catastrophically at the Battle of Midway, the United States Navy still would have broken even with Japan in carriers and naval air power by about September 1943. Nine months later, by the middle of 1944, the U.S. Navy would have enjoyed a nearly two-to-one superiority in carrier aircraft capacity! Not only that, but with her newer, better aircraft designs, the U.S. Navy would have enjoyed not only a substantial numeric, but also a critical qualitative advantage as well, starting in late 1943.
>While spending $2,000,000,000 on the manhattan project rather than shipping

Any singular event from the confederacy or imperial japan stood not the slightest chance of being a mortal wound and reversing the power imbalance between the superior economy + superior manpower versus the inferior economy + inferior manpower.

>>31868078
I watch it every few months. And I'm not even Americans.

well at least you're honest, more than most threads on /k/.

>>31867659
You got your restitution (eventually).

>>31867567
fuck you jeb stuart!

>>31868656
>It's a very similar situation to pacific ww2.
>No single battle stood any chance of flipping the state of things.

Ugh what. Actually were a couple where a single instance could've "saved" Japan and accomplished it's war goals. Mind you Japans war goal was ceasefire/peace with US so they could consolidate the Pacific.

3rd wave at Pearl Harbor
-Strike oil storage ships and facilities along with maint/repair facilities. At this time no US Ship could operate in the pacific for extended periods of around 3 months without re-supply from Hawaii. Without these facilities, very few or none of Battleship Row can be re-floated quickly and the Carriers would be forced back to West Coast without the Hawaii Facilities or Supplies. The repair and replenishment would take 8-12 months to bring the capability back of sustained long range sorties needed for Pacific Operations. Without US Navy the ABDA forces suffer even more catastrophic defeats and shatter.

Battle of Savo Island
IJN Forces completely slaughter defending Allied Ships to point general retreat is planned to abandon the 1st Marine Division, the USA's first ground troops of the war to retake the pacific. Retreat is delayed in desperate bid to unload more supplies to help the marines who are on the shoreline and have not established inland. (The battle can be slightly seen in "The Pacific"). The IJN not believing they defeated the entire allied force and worried the Allied Carriers were inbound instead choose to retire from the battle instead of sinking the remaining ships, transports and shore bombarding the 1st Marine Division. Such a shattering defeat and loss of manpower could've easily swayed to a diplomatic solution with Japan.

Naval Battle of Guadalcanal is another instance where IJN fell back when they had clear and pressing advantage that cost them the battle and had clear chance to annihilate the USA's first entry into the war but I am lacking character space and don't feel like typing more.

>>31868965
I still don't feel like typing about Naval Battle of Guadalcanel or Taffy 3 (massive blow but not as damning as other 3 instances) but would like to point out that while yes these could've accomplished Japans War Goals of Ceasefire/peace with the US but after the European campaign came to an end it is pretty much guaranteed forces would've returned to deal with Japan.

>>31868965
every single one of those listed is nothing more than a delay.

Japan had pathetic creation of ships. Coupled with no petroleum, so that if they ever did have an adequate number of ships they could never make use of them.

The yamato was a big dick that lasts three seconds as it guzzles Japan's entire gas tank. One or two ocean scoots with a sizeable japanese navy and they burn up their entire fuel supply and stop being a navy entirely.

The U.S. had boundless petroleum (from crude oil, anthracite, coke, etc.), steel and other raw materials that Japan all lacked, and endless manpower to assemble and man fleets and air forces.

In less than a year, the U.S. would still equalize with Japan naval assets. Japan never had the capability to do any significant damage to mainland U.S., they never had anything comparable to the B17 fleets on mainland and absolutely no heavy bombers on their fleet.
If they were to try at all to pester mainland harbors, they run out of fuel in foreign land outnumbered a hundred thousand-to-one and U.S. acquires an entire japanese fleet for free.
That means their only option is to just flee and let U.S. win by attrition easily.

If Japan goes for another foreign fuel supply (which will take years of work to bring on par with the U.S.), any infrastructure would simply be destroyed from the air by B17/24/29s and Japan again atrociously loses a war of attrition with no naval ability as ships are stranded fuel-less just like Germany experienced as distance hits shut down infrastructure even with the nazis spending a vast fortune on AAA across europe.

Japan had 0% chance of keeping the east indies fuel intact from the air. As germany found out, a war of attrition when your infrastructure is carpet bombed and north america is untouched is hopeless. Dutch land was a softer target, japan sucked at factory work and lacked AAA.

>>31868965
3rd Wave at Pearl Harbor could of done it if the US did not have the will. Doubtful though it would taken some diplomatic luck. Throw back US, Clobber Brits sue for negotiated Peace/Ceasefire. US might of bought it if it looked like Germany was a bigger threat. But Germany had no force projection to US, fears of Japanese landings in Hawaii and on west coast really lite a fire in the US mentality.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/306660/

If you get it on sale this is great.

>>31868274
Let's talk about how Custer fucking around to the rear of the Union lines tied up Stuart and kept him from providing necessary scouting reports to Lee.

>>31869411
and all that fleet dickwaving means nothing if the US doesn't have the ports or facilities to project power past the west coast. A solid 8-12 month delay of action against Japan means the ABDA force is non-existant, Australia is under constant harassment or bombings or all the Islands are getting proper fortifications thanks to newly secured supply lines and time.

The other instances were the first real entries into the Pacific for the US, something that was actually still a slightly hard sell to the public past the initial even/fuck you of Pearl Harbor. The combined Task Forces suffered REPEATED defeats and massive loss of ships and men which was already draining on the Public Morale back stateside. They would be seeing not only the Combined ABDA forces be defeated but, also the entire 1st Marine Division, the first ground Offensive of the war literally annihilated or captured. The US needed the win at Guadalcanal because up until that point it was nothing but failure and loss of life.

If Savo Island or First Naval Battle of Guadalcanel advantages were pushed and exploited by the IJN then either marines die from Shore Bombardment or are forced inland to fight the now reinforced Defenders and die or get captured. So now not only has the entire pacific campaign had massive Naval Failures but also massive Ground forces failures.

>>31869948

The US wouldn't push into the Solomons if they didn't win Midway. The Solomons offensive was a result of Midway eliminating the Japanese carrier advantage. So there are no Marines dying on Guadalcanal, they are in camp pendleton training, or are on the Australian mainland.

The plan in case things got bad was to abandon the western part of Australia and let the Japanese logicstically exaust themselves trying to take Australia (they can't, not enough men and logistical capability).

Then once Pearl Harbor is back up and running, a dozen Carriers show up to ruin Japan's day, repeat history from that point on.

Keep in mind, even before Pearl Harbor, construction of underground fuel depots already began, and historically, they were completed in 1944. If the US lost the primary depots, they would have redoubled their efforts to get the underground depots operational, likely during 1942.

That's the only part of Pearl Harbor's facilities that Japan could hurt in the long term, because dry docks, cranes, and other port infrastructure are hard to destroy with air. The US hit Kure with a force 3 times bigger than the Pearl Harbor force, and they still had problems knocking out all the port infrastructure.

File: American Hero.jpg (55KB, 796x582px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 796x582px

>>31867659

>>31868660
I've watched it twice so far, and I'm neither am I.

>>31867567
Rebels attack PA with the intent of taking Harrisburg or D.C. U.S. Army intercepts them at Gettysburg. 3 days of horrific fighting commences. Rebels roll the dice and assault U.S. lines across an open field on the 3rd day and fail to break through. Rebels are forced to retreat.

>>31867567
The 20th Maine saved the whole fucking thing at Little Round Top.

>>31867567
The south will rise again. I guarantee it.

>>31867631
>Can't take a hill
>Can't charge across a valley
Why did you shit try to leave again?

>>31868282
>reading thread
see >>31867659
>immediately start playing Marching Through Georgia
>see this post
mah nigga

>>31868274
I was always curious why Pickett's Charge failed so miserably considering their hope for it, and I never really got a definitive answer. The last thing I remember hearing regarding that is that they started with an artillery barrage and expected that to wear down the center enough to break under the charge, however ultimately most of the artillery ended up firing high/inaccurately. Is this true, or is there more to it?

>>31868274

>>31873417
here, guess I should've kept reading cause I ended up getting my answer from >>31868321

>>31873417
Lee ordered what was, at the time, the heaviest artillery barrage ever ordered on a single position in a land battle. He expected this to diminish the Union artillery's ability to return fire when the time for the actual charge came.

It did not work as intended, obviously. Confederate artillery never could match the Union's more modern guns for range or accuracy. So his 15,000 infantry got cut to pieces by explosives and shrapnel as they marched across an open field, and that was that.

>>31873417
>>31873444
Basically, this is the more detailed rundown of how Pickett's Charge failed.

1. Lee seriously underestimated how fortified the Union center was.

2. The Confederate opening bombardment was massive, but ineffective because the majority of the cannons overshot their targets, allowing the more accurate Union artillery to counterbattery and remove most of the Confederate cannons from the battle.

3. There was a large, very sturdy wooden fence running across the length of the battlefield. It was too strong for the Confederates to just push down and too flimsy to provide cover against Union bullets and shells. They could either try to scale the fence, which made them giant targets, or try to push through a break in the fence, which just turned them into massive bottlenecks.

4. At this point the Union was starting to get seriously nasty toys, like repeating rifles, rifled cannons, and cannister shot, which are all perfect for mowing down massed infantry in the open.

5. The weather was extremely hot and humid, which only served to make the troops more exhausted as they tried to cross the field.

>>31873444
You really need to go there and walk the ground; it's an incredibly moving experience.
You can look at Brady's and Sullivan's plates and locate the places where the dead were photographed after the battle.

File: Shrapnel_Diagram[1].jpg (37KB, 500x205px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 500x205px

>>31873522
>cannister shot
Been a thing since the first desperate artillery crewman shoved bits of broken glass and old nails into the muzzle of his gun as a replacement for actual shot.

You're probably thinking of pic related, although this specific one is from the 1880s/1890s IIRC

>>31873536
I actually lived about 45 minutes away until 5 months ago; went on at least one school field trip and went once or twice with my grandparents, but all of those times were well before I really got into military history in general so I never really got the full impact/experience out of it. Next spring when I inevitably visit home I'll be making another trip for sure, this time soaking in every little bit of it I can.

Really regret not making it out for the 150th anniversary, too.

File: 1477668448213.jpg (531KB, 2048x1343px) Image search: [Google]

531KB, 2048x1343px

>>31867607

Canadian here.

The Union were literally the bad guys.

>>31873576
Well yeah, actual, purpose made ammunition, which the Union could make in spades and was made even more deadly by their gun advances.

>>31867567
two sides fought, one fought bc they hated negros and had no shoes, the other bc they were paid and told to.

>>31873607
No one fucking cares what Canadians think about the American Civil War.

>>31873481
wasn't the south's most accurate artillery like 15 Whitworth rifled cannon that were like 25 years old, and mostly crewed by the tenant farmers of the landed gentry that owned them in an almost richfags of /k/ 1860's confederate edition?

I grew up around old southern faded gentry families as a kid, and these old dudes could tell you every single goddamn thing about different battles. I believe in my heart, that if they were somehow sent back in time, they would have led a march right up lincoln's tall bony ass, and taken washington city in like an night. there was one of the old men that could talk the battle of the crater into something to give you a raging boner.

>>31873607
God knows Fatty Butler was a straight up cartoon villain. he was damn near lynched by everyone on both sides in new orleans for talking shit, and calling all of the women quadroon whores with the smelliest pussies on earth.

>>31873288
Sure, Cletus.

>>31868400
>>31868656
The Confederate defeat at Gettysburg is generally held as being what convinced Britain not to intervene.

>>31868078
Gettysburg is essential /k/ viewing.

>>31873305
Economic warfare by the northern states was becoming untenable. Whoever heard of tariffs on goods both made and sold in your own country?

File: 1477284167001.jpg (508KB, 2048x1601px) Image search: [Google]

508KB, 2048x1601px

>>31868078

It's alright, the cast is great, but the combat is rather poorly executed. It's a pretty, sanitized depiction of the combat.

I remember I watched it as a kid (like 11) and was terribly moved by the fighting on the hill when Chamberlain charged with his men.

>>31873702
Any notions of British support died at Antietam. The British were doing better trading with the Union and a majority of the British populace was actually pro-Union. Gettysburg was just a last desperate gamble by Lee to hopefully force the Union to the negotiating table.

File: Nordic metal proper.jpg (28KB, 512x450px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 512x450px

>>31867849
>The Glorious Burden
Yes I'm into metal. This is good stuff.
We Finns are a bit dumb in this sense. If you give us a piece of proper metal with proper vocals, we are with you.

>>31867567
The Confeferacy did nothing wrong.

>>31874148
They lost, something had to have gone wrong.

>>31873611
Works different; "canister" is simply a copper or tin can full of musket balls rammed over top of a charge of power. Acts like a giant shotgun.

"Case" or "Shrapnel" shot is a two-stage shell, which contains a secondary charge to separate the "case" and expose the shot contained within, which achieves a smaller (fewer musket balls) but much longer range shotgun effect.