What narrative should we be pushing?

>>31828090
There's no narrative to push. Gun ownership for the purpose of an active militia is part of the framework of this nation. An effective militia requires "military style" firearms, so any proposed ban on these guns is in direct conflict with the Founding Fathers' intentions.

America, love it or leave it, God bless.

>>31828179

You ARE pushing a narrative. It also happens to be one that I agree with. I'm asking how I can honestly argue with conflicting facts and trends.

>>31828273
By digging in your heels and standing your ground. And when necessary, by being unafraid to NOT COMPLY.

Basically, the NRA and other gun rights groups need to distance themselves from the GOP and try to make gun rights as apolitical as possible.

Because the GOP is fucked. RKBA is looking pretty good.

Also, we need to figure out how to not lose DC vs. Heller to Hillary's SCOTUS picks.

Hopefully soon.

>>31828302

It is a political. It endorses Democrats, if they meet criteria.

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>>31828273
But the framework of our nation isn't a narrative, it's the foundation of our society

I think one of the biggest things we can do to further the gun owner cause is to buy into the diversity thing and push it real fucking hard. Like libtard-tier hard, and harder since we want to win. One of the biggest issues in the gun rights campaign is fighting the idea that gun ownership is a far rightwing, cis white male scum issue. It's not, and it's not a political issue at all. I'm a spic and I'm pro-gun as fuck because I came from a police state where a revolution is impossible because lol no rifles. We have to push the idea that if you're an immigrant citizen to this nation, you owe it to your family who worked hard to get you to where you are and to those who left behind to fight for freedom in your new home so that it doesn't become what you escaped. We also need to push as hard as we can for pro-gun rights groups like the pink pistols, black guns matter, etc. I don't know why the NRA doesn't shill that fag noir as hard as they could. We need to make owning guns a feminist cause because 4'10" women need t be able to fend off would be rapists that are 6'7" and weigh 300lbs of muscle and starved patriarch cock.

>>31828345
Don't think like a cult.

>>31828507
this tbqhwy
saying 'just because' won't convince those that disagree, even if they arent ideologically opposed

>>31828449
There have been a number of recent attempts to do this. After the Orlando night club terrorist attack there were a number of attempts by bloggers and 2A advocates to advertise the Pink Pistols as a way to show that 2nd Amendment protects everybody. In the short term they got squashed by extremely leftist hit pieces against the group as well as astroturfed groups like Gays against Guns. The left fought hard to demonize them because they know that the moment minorities realize that gun control works against them they might start questioning other things.

The Pink Pistols couldn't really counter the coordinated assault because they were extremely small at the time and were too busy doing the hard work of recruitment and training. In the long term they might be able to win a media battle or two. Membership has gone up like five times what it was back before Orlando. Next time they might have some money to launch their own PR campaign.

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>>31828620
I don't just scream SHALL and run away, I provide supporting historical evidence that the Founding Fathers believed in an armed populace, and that the SCOTUS has supported civilian ownership of military style firearms.

>>31828689
But that's a legalistic argument. It does not answer the moral question of "ought" at the heart of it

>>31828302
I think the opposite actually. There needs to be a bigger push by the NRA to align and work with various gun associations specific for minorities.

>>31828655
I'm saying we need to really up the ante for the antis

>>31828302
The GOP wins or you lose. That's a reality right now. You can pretend you care about gays and abortions more than your guns but that's what's on the chopping block.

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>>31828794
Ask if we "ought" to acknowledge the Constitution, the Amendments that afford minorities and women to vote, the SCOTUS decision that protects a women's right to choose abortion.

Make it evident that you cannot pick and choose what legislation you respect and that you don't.

>>31828904
That's a transparently fallacious argument

>>31828958
How so? While I don't morally agree with abortion, I don't believe it should be illegal as per Roe v. Wade. I also believe that the 2nd Amendment affords citizens the right to own military style firearms as per the arguments brought forward by the attorneys representing the US in US v. Miller.

>>31828090
>>>/pol/

>>31828992
>These other things you like are legal
>So this thing I like should be legal

It's an incredibly vague analogy and a deflection from actually presenting any arguments about why the 2nd Ammendment/ownership of "military-style firearms" is a good thing. It's the deflection under the guise of analogy that makes it fallacious.

Try using induction or deduction.

>>31828090
Is this some new form of concern troll?

>>31829048
Use smaller words, as far as I know you're talking about electricity and taxes right now.

>>31828904
>right to choose abortion
It's hilarious how they spun it into a "woman's right to privacy" and "right to choose", to defend "reproductive rights"

>>31828794
Wait. Are you seriously pondering whether or not we should have 2A rights?

Yes, we should. There's no moral component to it. If we give up or sign away ANY of the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights, we stop being the USA and become just another dreary shithole. Europe in the New World, if you will.

We're not a perfect society, far from it. But, at the end of the day, virtually every other country on the planet looks up to us. For a lot of them it's a love-hate relationship. They despise everything we stand for, yet they want to be more like us.

Our gun culture is one of the things that makes us what we are.

If you want to prevent unnecessary deaths, focus your energy on eradicating the tobacco industry in this country. Or is this more about control?

>>31828873
>caring about 'gay rights' and abortion

Do people actually do this?

>>31829178
>Are you seriously pondering whether or not we should have 2A rights?

This the root of the debate, yes.

> If we give up or sign away ANY of the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights, we stop being the USA and become just another dreary shithole. Europe in the New World, if you will.

Oh wait, it's retarded. Nevermind.

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>>31829094
>as far as I know you're talking about electricity and taxes right now

get the fuck out of here carlos

>>31829236
At least half the country does, and a fair amount of the other half pretends to because people are pro-social and risk averse.

When the pendulum swings back, it will be due to something else... but sodomy on the marriage altar and in-womb infanticide may suffer a bit. So may gelded men shitting in the stall next to your daughter.

One can hope and dread at the same time. Reclaiming a bit of normalcy will not be painless or easy.

>>31829360
There are benefits, Phil. For one, you can fap to shota with minimal social repurcussions

A long time ago the supreme court actually ruled that the right for individuals to own firearms wasn't covered by the 2nd amendment. They later reversed that decision of coarse.

But there were no riots over it either.

Because, like it or not, collectivism VS individualism has always been a sort of background issue in American politics and American identity, and that's inherent when you have founding documents with "We the people", and that really effects how people see the 2nd amendment and basically everything ells that being an American entails.

I don't think the founding fathers ever considered that democratically elected politicians wouldn't be considered to have followed the will of the people, because its the people that elected them and can replace them next election therefore gun regulation would be the people regulating themselves.

Were-as today, I don't think people are as collectivist as they used to be, and modern people don't believe in democracy as much. There is a heck of a lot less faith in government and fellow citizens now.

>>31829270
No rebuttal, just ad hom. About what I expected.

>>31828904

> uses the 15th and 19th amendment to justify the inviolablility of the 2nd amendment

> not realizing that both are examples of a country ammending the constitution

*Ought* determines what legislation gets passed bruh, you fukin dummy

>>31829591
The 2nd amendment was and amendment to the constitution

>>31828179
>Gun ownership for the purpose of an active militia is part of the framework of this nation.

Not anymore. We don't need militia groups or civil defense forces.

We're not an isolated, neutral country anymore. We have friends and allies.

>>31829688
>friends and allies

No such thing when it comes to nations

>>31829696
This might be hard to grasp for Russia and China, but it is possible to have friends and allies.

Nations that share the same democratic values tend to stick together for the sake of defending those same values. Shocking, I know.

>>31828873
You see, that's why we need to distance ourselves. Mainstream people associate gun rights with anti-lgbt and pro-life. That simply isn't true; anyone can be a second amendment advocate. This connection that exists only in the public's perception ought to be broken. Gun rights are completely independent of other social issues and it's fucking despicable that we're forced to accept certain liberties and discard others in package deals known as Republican and Democrat policies.

>>31829360
>sodomy on the marriage altar and in-womb infanticide
>gelded men shitting in the stall next to your daughter.
I don't care as l get my guns.

>>31828090
We're getting better all the time. Even with more and more states pushing to make it easier and easier to carry firearms in public, we aren't seeing the "blood in the streets" or "thousands of homicides over parking disputes" they kept claiming would be the inevitable result. It's almost like the average American can actually be trusted to not be a completely unsafe idiot with a firearm.

Push diversity hard, push trust in the average American hard.

>>31829688
And lots and lots of enemies retard

>>31829836
The best way to break that association is to break party lines on those issues and encourage GOP representatives to do so as well. If you can tie gun rights to a "winning horse" like gay rights these days, you'll help everyone.

One example I'm thinking of pushing on this coming year is on the bathroom bill that's doubtlessly going to hit the Texas legislature. If I can, I plan to talk to my state reps about how the bathroom bill is essentially just creating a "dick free zone" in the same way that places try to create "gun free zones" - neither designation is going to stop someone with either who was already planning to enter that area and commit a crime. I'll also encourage the "bathroom bill" be replaced with something that results in harsher punishments on convicted sex offenders who attempt to pass as trans people to assault women, and also try to broaden the ability for women to defend themselves by suggesting lowered LTC processing fees through Texas DPS, allowing more people to get their LTC.

This will hopefully work in two ways - it'll make liberal reps have to admit that gun free zones don't work in order to stop the bathroom bill, and it'll give conservative reps political ammo to further gun rights in Texas to "protect women" without stepping all over their own dick at the national level in the way North Carolina did.

>>31830042
Sounds awesome, how are you going to push this? Are you a lobbyist?

>>31830069
I'm not, I'm just some guy who has, for inexplicable reasons, ended up surrounded by a bunch of FTM transsexuals and genderqueer types in my circle of friends. Needless to say, they're all very concerned about this bill, so I am too. I do, however, have a contact who is very involved in gun rights and LGBT activism in Austin, so I'll be reaching out to him at the beginning of the legislative session to see who I can talk to at the capitol and when.

(on a personal level, I also had a falling out with one of the FTMs who treats me like a stereotypical Republican and I want to be able to hold the fact that I took time off work to fought for his rights when he was too lazy to do it himself over his fucking head if I run into him again)

>>31830029
Having enemies is natural. A nation can't survive being neutral.

>>31828289
We can't dig in we have to push forward and reverse this shit.

>>31830120
>>31830042
Godspeed, anon.

>>31830042
Women's bathrooms are supposed to be dick-free zones. I don't want a mentally ill woman to be able to walk into a men's bathroom and take pictures.

Finish this sentence: Those who try to please everyone...

>>31829360
have you ever made an apolitical post?

>>31830042
Interesting thought, but your thread of logic is way too tangled to form a cohesive policy platform.

>>31832042
>I don't want a mentally ill woman to be able to walk into a men's bathroom and take pictures
Then why don't you go after the act of taking pictures, which can be done by men and women, instead of where people can piss and shit? Similar to just having assault/murder/etc. being illegal vs trying to go after guns.

>>31832042
Of course a bipartisan bill that supports gun rights and the rights of trans people will upset people in both sides of the aisle
R: Homophobes, bible thumping cunts and neocons
D: Fearmongering soccermoms, narrative-pushers and totalitarians

Literally the deplorables of each side

>>31828090
hows about pushing a knife into your throat.

>>31828179
Bullshit. Gun owners need to go on the political offensive. We need to constantly be pushing for more. We will sweep the feet out of antigunners .