A Question of Concealment

>>31810360

First, it's going to vary based upon what I need to carry and what I can get away with in a given environment. I can't carry my Glock 17 in a suit because I take my jacket off regularly. Similarly, there's no point in me carrying just my J-Frame in jeans and an untucked button-down shirt because I can conceal a Glock 17 just as easily. If I'll be in court that day and I'm using my J-Frame, I'll use a pocket holster versus a bellyband because I can take the gun off easily and leave it in my desk before going across the street. Some days, depending on what I'm doing, I may have both a full-sized pistol and a J-Frame on me. TL;DR: there's no 100% of the time solution for me, and what I carry is based upon several factors.

I carry either AIWB, in the pocket, or in a bellyband. I don't do shoulder or ankle holsters. I like leather. I have custom leather AIWBs for both my Glocks and J-Frames, a Kramer pocket holster for the J-Frames (looking at getting a second one left-handed for BUG use), and also a DeSantis bellyband that I'd really like to replace with something else. In the past I used a lot of kydex but after wearing good leather nothing else really compares, both for comfort and drawstroke characteristics.

The guns I carry most often are a Glock 17 and a S&W 642. I'm looking at getting a Glock 26 as well as a S&W 340 and 640 Pro in the near future.

As should be obvious, I like revolvers over semi-autos for pocket-sized guns. In my experience they hide better and draw better in the pocket, and I feel there are some real advantages to them in a fight over a gun.

>>31810360
You have to find what works for you. Fingerfuck a few at your range/LGS and ask for their recommendations

>>31810529
9mm and .38? If I may ask, what stops you from using .40 or 10mm?

>>31810863

Nothing "stops me" from using either caliber. I've just made the decision that .40/10mm (or .45ACP .357MAG for that matter) aren't relevant to my needs. The capability that they can provide (not all loads do so) is great for something I don't use my handguns for. Bullets with a high sectional density moving fast are good for dangerous game because deep penetration helps there, but it isn't giving you any significant advantage against people. That capability comes at a cost of increased split times, greater cost-per-round for practice, reliability concerns, and increased wear on my guns.

As for 9mm, my chosen carry load has a 20+ year history of history of working very well, is bonded for barrier penetration should that be needed, and works well in barrels from 3" all the way to my service-sized guns.

I carry wadcutters in the Airweights, and not the Buffalo Bore "we PROMISE it's standard pressure" shit that gets 1000+ FPS out of a snub either (extra velocity is useless with wadcutters here). I'm carrying regular old Remington 148gr stuff that's rated for 740FPS out of a 4" barrel (gets about 600FPS out of my snubs). Why? It's a solid bullet with a sharp shoulder and wide meplat that gets about 18-20" of penetration in denim-covered jell-o, and I can get accurate .25s splits with it because it barely has recoil. I got tired of chasing down bullets that may expand some of the time out of a snub, don't shoot to my sights, don't have practice ammo that mimics their velocity/recoil, and are generally uncomfortable to shoot (i.e. slower).

All I want a bullet to do is:
a) be easy to shoot well;
b) penetrate 12-18" in ballistic gel covered with four layers of denim (prefer 14-16" range); and
c) use a cutting mechanism to wound (expansion is preferred but not necessary).

Both my 9mm and .38 loads do all three. In the event we get hit with a mag ban, I'll consider an 8-10-shot .45 in place of my 9mm, again focused on shootability.

>>31811088
Good reasoning. Thank you. I'd like to see more of that instead of, " use. 40, its more powerful than 9mm."

>>31810360
I alternate between a g43, pps fawdy and p30 in fawdy depending on what my outfit is.

>>31810863
Not the guy you're asking, but both of those rounds have problems when applied to real world situations.

For example, have you ever tried firing either of those rounds in the dark, which is when you are statistically most likely to need your carry gun? They both have a larger muzzle flash than either 9mm or .38 special, with the one from 10mm being huge to the point of actively disrupting your night vision.

Both 10mm and .40 have better penetration than 9mm, which is actually a bad thing for a concealed carry gun. When a 9mm HST fired out of a 4 inch barrel reliably expands and penetrates to 13-16 inches through 4 layers of denim, you are actually better off with more capacity rather than more penetration.

Related to this is price and accessibility of ammunition. 9mm is the 2nd cheapest caliber after 22LR, and the ammunition for it is found everywhere where ammunition is sold. By contrast, 10mm is hard to find and very expensive while .40 is going to become steadily scarcer and more expensive in years to come now that the FBI and many major police departments have begun to drop the round.

Finally, the greater pressures and recoil of both .40 and 10mm directly translates to longer time between followup shots and much shorter service lives for the weapons that use them compared to an equivalent 9mm.

.40 and 10mm have their place. They are obviously far better than 9mm if you expect that you will have to engage an attacker through barriers and are also much more capable against large animals like bears or a moose; they aren't all that great for being CC'd by your average person.

>>31810529
>>31811088
How's the finish on your 642 holding up? I purchased one recently and noticed that there were a lot of complaints on the internet from around 2011-2013 that the finish is very fragile and starts flaking or peeling within a year or two of being carried.

>>31811277
Again, thank you very much. If you don't mind me asking, what do you CC? When does a weapon become inconvenient? I hear about people CC'ing Glock 17s and FN 9s all the time, and those are considered full size pistols.

>>31811347

Mine is a 2015-mfg 642-1 (no lock).

The coating on the backstrap began getting dinged up and flaking off within about two months. My fault really, as I've occasionally dropped my keys in that pocket. Anyhow I got frustrated with it and polished off the coating on the backstrap. No issues, and it's in my pocket at least 5 days a week.

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>>31811350
I use this. The reasons I got it are:

1.) It is small and lightweight. A gun that is inconvenient to carry all the time is a gun that, in practice, ends up not being carried all the time. This, to me, defeats the point of concealed carry in the first place. If I ever feel that I need more firepower, I can just carry a larger semi-auto 9mm IWB in addition to the 642 in my pocket.

2.) It is legal in every jurisdiction of the United States where carrying a firearm is legal. This saves me the headache of having to buy new mags or sell it at a loss in case I get a new job that puts me in a place like CA or NY.

3.) It is reliable. Revolver reliability compared to semi-auto reliability is often exaggerated by fudds and idiots, but what is true is that when comparing mouse guns meant for pocket carry, J-frames are more reliable than any of the other options out there. Even the Glock 42 and 43 have/had issues, to say nothing of Bersa, Kahr, the Sig 238 or 938, the Beretta Pico, the S&W Bodyguard 380, the Remington 380, etc.

4.) It has a simple manual of arms. This is good both for keeping things straightforward in a high stress situation as well as for a set of circumstances in which I end needing to arm someone else who has had no previous firearms training.

5.) It uses ammunition that is easily found, easily reloaded, and which will continue to be produced for the foreseeable future.

It does have some downsides, however:

1.) It has a 5 shot capacity and is slow to reload unless you have a good speedloader or one that's cut for moon clips (as mine is). This isn't as bad when you consider that this is a problem that all pocket guns face as a result of their size and that most of the other options out there are 6+1 or, with an extended mag, 7+1.

2.) While it's easy to use, it's actually one of the most difficult guns to master. Cont. below

>>31810360
>My question is, what do you guys do?
I carry a glock 26 appendix about 75% the time.
TCP about 20% though I'm not too confident in it and looking to replace or just carry the 26 more.
Rare occations a 1911 or 92FS
>Pocket guns? TCP is meh
>Compacts?
Glock 19 pretty gud
>Full size pistols that CC really well?
1911s are thin, but most resonably sized handguns can be.
>How big is too big for you?
If it prints

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I carry a Glock 29SF. I don't care if it prints because it's nobody business.

>>31811674 cont.
All small guns are inherently hard to shoot well due to having a lot of felt recoil, low profile fixed sights, and a short sight picture. The J-frames have, in addition to this, a long double action only trigger pull (mine came with a factory trigger job that made things far easier while not compromising the safety of the weapon). None of these things preclude you from getting good with the gun, but it will require more practice time than most other options.

A few final things to consider for a carry gun:

1.) Think about how you're going to carry it. OWB is a no-go if you have a job that requires you to wear your shirts tucked in. IWB gives you a lot of options for guns but makes presenting the gun slower if you have a job that requires you to wear your shirt tucked in. Both require that you own a good belt. Pocket carry avoids all of these problems but limits you to only small guns with low capacity.

2.) Don't spend more than $300 - $600 on the gun itself before transfer fees and taxes unless your needs dictate that you do so. There are an incredible number of good options in that price range; going over $600 usually means you're paying for a rollmark or things that only add marginal value, while going under $300 for anything other than a Hi-Point means that you're staking your life on something that's Taurus-tier or worse.

3.) Budget for ammo and training time. Most semi-autos have a 200 round break-in period, and a gun is a paperweight if you aren't proficient in shooting quickly and accurately with it. Aim for good groups at 7 yards and 15 yards; once you can do that, practice getting faster.

My Colt Delta Elite is really too big to CC.
The HK p30L doesn't really bother me though which is odd.
Generally I would say the best thing for CC is 4" barrel and a grip just long enough to get 3 fingers a pinky extender just big enough for the 3rd finger.

The Glock 19's lack of a beavertail, relative thin flat sidedness and relatively short dimensions make it as good as a full size gun while being concealable. My p30L is much larger but hast he same capacity. However, it shoots much nicer and is oddly comfy.

None of this has answered your question. Let me break it down:

Summer activities, bicycling, jogging (if you want a gun) etc, a single stack polymer 9mm such as Walther PPS, XDS or Shield is the way to go.
Winter or general night out carry, a Glock 19 or similar dimension double stack 9mm is the way to go.

Hicking camping, 10mm is the way to go.

>>31811277
>overpenetration
>carry gun
>noticeably shorter service life
>this is why you're against .40 and 10mm

good meme
there are legitimate reasons to not use .40 or 10mm but not those listed

>>31811845
With all those constraints, or considerations as you call them, you have just limited yourself to only a few choices, which judging from your apparent knowledge of firearms, you can pick one by yourself.

>>31811900
What are they then?

>>31811900

>noticeably shorter service life

That's actually a thing with both calibers, particularly in pistols that weren't built from the ground up as .40s. Glocks see breakages in the locking block pin due to excessive slide velocity, not to mention the accelerated replacement cycle for the recoil spring assembly.

Furthermore, .40s and 10mms are typically less than reliable with those loads everybody always raves about. Your 200gr hardcast isn't worth a damn if your Glock 20 can't even feed a full mag of it.

>>31811900
mag capacity
recoil
cost

>>31812148
first off, those breakage points are still in the 5 digit range and kek, there is no "accelerated replacement cycle for the recoil spring assembly" you compress the spring and it returns based on the energy stored in the spring, not based on how fast you loaded the spring

and the glock 20 works with hardcast 200gr, I have used it without major issue in gen 4's. gen 3's may be underpsrung; the problems come when your recoil spring is too light or your brass is too brittle and cracks. another issue is when people fail to grip the gun firmly enough and during recoil either hit the mag release or activate the slide stop on a non-empty mag

>>31812027
>>31812332
meant to tag you and not me

>>31812332

>5-digit range.

Uh, no. Furthermore, 10,000 rounds is in the "5 digit range," and 10,000 rounds isn't exactly a lot. Problems have been reported well before that round count, particularly in LE agencies. Additionally, there was no qualifier of when it will break; the claim is simply that they're less durable. And particularly with Glocks, that's very true.

>there is no "accelerated replacement cycle for the recoil spring assembly"

Then why does the current Glock armorer's manual suggest a replacement round count on .40 RSAs that's half that of 9mm RSAs, and why do most serious users suggest not letting the RSA get above 3K before replacement?

Glock .40s simply have too light of a slide to work well, and they beat themselves to death because of it. There's a reason Glock keeps trying to put a band-aid on that problem with higher-sprung magazine (reliability) and recoil springs (wear). You can prolong the pistol's lifespan with regular and early RSA changes, but you're never going to get the longevity of a G17.

Additionally, more than a few people have issues with the G20s and 200+gr hardcast, and the issue isn't limited to Gen 3s. You should try shooting more than five rounds out of that box of Buffalo Bore. Further, you really ought to be going to a Gen 3 style RSA with an aftermarket spring if that's what you intend to shoot.