deer rifles

>>31793182

.300 blkout is 125gr @ 2200fps
.30-30 Win is 170gr @ 2200fps

Not really the same thing.

>>31793182
What does a bolt action 300 blackout have to do with a lever action 30-30

>>31793215
That's with a 16 inch barrel. If using a 24 inch barrel, you could very nearly match the performance of a 30-30.
>>31793233
Bolt action is almost always stronger and more accurate than lever action. I can't think of a reason to still use lever action other than emotional nostalgia.

>>31793182
Your proposed rifle would hit exactly none of the things that the target demographic of a levergun would be interested in.

Also, lever guns are amazing. Fuck your spitzer shite. Even if it is objectively better.

>>31793285

.300blk was designed with short barrels in mind. It uses fast burning powders. You'd have to hand load to get any use out of your 24" barrel, which is too heavy anyway for a brush/woods gun.

> I can't think of a reason to still use a lever action

Roughly twice as fast for a follow up shot since, especially if you get a sticky case in your bolt action.

>>31793332

Why not both? Henry Long Ranger, in .308 or .243.

>>31793332
>target demographic of a levergun
Those people know very little about ballistics and violently resist any change to obsolete designs on the grounds that existing weapons are "good enough."
>Fuck your spitzer shite. Even if it is objectively better
Case in point.

>>31793364
Then use a 30 BR.
>Roughly twice as fast for a follow up shot since, especially if you get a sticky case in your bolt action.
Only among people who don't know how to use a bolt. When worked properly, a bolt action is almost as fast as a semi-automatic, but this technique is rarely seen anymore.

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>>31793368
Are you going to imply that the .30-30 isn't capable of taking a deer? Because if that's what you're here to do, then you're a fucking idiot and you're just making it obvious.

I would never deny that modern rifle and cartridge designs are objectively superior. But my bolt guns get boring after a while, and even though they're much more accurate than my Winchester 94, the lever gun is still a ton of fun and I'm happy to use it. Personally I don't hunt but I wouldn't have any doubts about the rifle's ability to take a deer.

>know very little about ballistics and violently resist any change

Damn son, generalize harder please. Certainly everyone must conform to your superior choices. All guns that aren't the absolute best possible weapons should just stop being produced. Fun is overrated.

>>31793393

> A bolt action is almost as fast as a semi-automatic (i.e. faster than a lever action)

Anon, please...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1BwUJ4--Qw&t=0m24s

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>.300 Blackout

fucking why even?

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>>31793368
>>31793424

By the way, while we're talking about superior rounds and all this shit, why the fuck would you even bother with 300BLK. It's a pointless round in anything but an AR. If you want to be a giant maximum efficiency faggot, just buy a fucking 6.5 Creedmore or a 6.5x47 Lapua and be done with it. It's fucking hilarious that you're arguing about an outdated round and what to replace it with a useless one.

>>31793182
.300blk is a meme round

>>31793438
do be fair, those leverguns have had so much work done that they aren't even close to being representative of levergun performance.

still faster than a bolt gun though

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>>31793182
Because this already exists

>>31793494
I can't speak to his exact one (although it looks to be a modern Uberti 1873 repro so my point here is still valid) it really doesn't take much to get a gun to that point. Couple of springs and some times spent with some stones and you're there. A lot of guys buy the cheaper Rossi 92s and do the same work to them. It's not a massive amount of labor, probably no more than it took me to smooth out my CZ SP-01.

>>31793424
>Are you going to imply that the .30-30 isn't capable of taking a deer?
The 30-30 has probably killed more deer than any other cartridge, but that's only because it has been used longer and by more people. However, just because an existing tool works doesn't mean a better alternative doesn't exist. For example, outhouses worked for centuries, but we still install indoor plumbing.
>Damn son, generalize harder please. Certainly everyone must conform to your superior choices.
Yes, it is a generalization. Any statement made about a large group of consumers must be.
>All guns that aren't the absolute best possible weapons should just stop being produced. Fun is overrated.
Some people also enjoy hunting with arrows, but I am still interested in making a better mousetrap.
>>31793472
I wanted to compare two round of the same bullet diameter.
>>31793513
7.62x39 would also serve the same purpose, but it's pressure tolerance is a little on the low side.

>>31793528
at that level of competition it's guaranteed he has a short stroke kit and hundreds of dollars worth of smithing done to it

>>31793215
>.300 blkout is 125gr
Isn't that on the light side?

>>31793470
The new plastic tipped ammo does offer a slight advantage in velocity, but the 30-30 is still a low-pressure round.

>>31793554
>However, just because an existing tool works doesn't mean a better alternative doesn't exist.
Yes, you're right, but that also doesn't mean that you need to act like the people using the old standard that has proven itself well are a bunch of troglodytes and cavemen. It works.

>I wanted to compare two round of the same bullet diameter.
What, 30 caliber?
Fucking .30-06 and .308 exist. I'm still not seeing a reason to use 300BLK in something that's not an AR. And I cannot for the life of me understand why it would matter that you're changing bullet diameter, since you're changing literally everything else about the rifle in the name of efficiency.

My point stands. If you want to use the absolute best, I don't blame you or hold it against you. But bumping from 30-30 to a 300BLK is a half measure. Just get something that actually has top-tier ballistics, which you won't be finding in 30 caliber bullets except maybe at the heaviest weights.

>>31793579

Not for supersonic. You can go 220gr, but you're hunting with a very long barreled .45

>>31793576
He might but I can certainly tell you that many people who compete more casually in their local/regional CAS competitions aren't putting that kind of money into it, and that rate of fire is not something exclusive to the best of the best in that sport. I'm not trying to shit talk anyone or anything, just saying you can go to any CAS shoot and find people who've practiced enough to fire at crazy speeds with a lever gun and they don't need to spend $1500+ to do it.

>>31793633
>You can go 220gr, but you're hunting with a very long barreled .45
You're going to need to explain this metaphor.

>>31793665

Roughly the same bullet weight and velocity, 220gr at 1000fps. Although your SD on the .300blk is better.

>>31793438
ww1 enfield mad minute nigga.

>>31793665
45 acp is 230gr and subsonic
a 220 gr 300bkl would be going about the same speed cause subsonic

>>31793528
You should look more into what the serious cowboy action shooters do. It is not just an action slicking.

>>31793682

While impressive, the lever's still faster, unless we're only talking prone shooting. Two motions, forward->back, as compared to up->back->forward->down.

If need more evidence, there's a bunch of youtube videos on the subject. Google 'lever vs bolt action'. Shit's been argued to death.

>>31793729
>>31793682

I'm not sure this is a point worth arguing though because even if we assume the enfield to be faster, it's a very abnormal bolt design and exists as an outlier. It alone doesn't make it right to imply that bolt guns are faster.

>>31793748
The point wasn't that bolt guns are faster. The point was that they are very fast. Quite fast enough considering that a skilled operator can work the bolt in less time than it takes him to get back on target.

>>31793674
>>31793688
Thank you both, though I do feel silly now.

>>31793182
>shoot deer in shoulder with 300 blackout, deer dies
>shoot deer 1 inch away from where I was aiming with 30-30, deer dies
I don't see what the difference is. Yes, you can use 300 blackout. You can also use .308, 7.62x39, hell even .357. For all practical purposes, they'll kill the deer just the same. The only time it would matter is when you're talking about ranges beyond normal hunting ranges.

>>31794641
>For all practical purposes, they'll kill the deer just the same
So would an arrow, but don't let the good be the enemy of perfection.

>>31794716
All the rounds I listed are marginally different within most hunting ranges, while requiring basically no change on the hunters part. You're still pointing the gun at the deer and pulling a trigger. An arrow requires an entirely different skill set. So no, for all practical purposes, an arrow is not the same.

>>31794716
>t. guy who has never bowhunted

You could just buy a old Savage 325/340 bolt action in .30-30. Then you can hand load spitzers instead of hornaday leverevolution.

Good rifles too.

YFW .357 Magnum was considered a fucking big game cartridge, but now Fudds won't have anything smaller than a gorram .300WinMag for fucking whitetail deer at less than 100 yards.

Fuck, there are still plenty of old timers that use .22Magnum for deer and always limit out (or poach throughout the year)

>>31793182
because it creates no overall benefit and nobody will buy it. a deer gun doesnt need to be sub-moa accurate, and flat nose bullets kill deer just fine.

>>31793368
>violently resist
Because you're trying to force things on them.

Do you hate freedom?

Are you a commie or something?

b/c 30br is a wildcat and 300blk is a niche cartridge for silencer geeks and isn't any better at killing deer than 223 is.