AR-15/variant or AK-47/variant?

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>>31783444
Get a Glock 19 / 17 and get 3000 rounds and go practice.
Buy a palmetto state armory ar15 upper and lower and put them together, directions are as easy as pushing pins and watching YouTube. Or order a complete palmetto state armory rifle, up to you but the former will be cheaper and could end up with a pretty decent gun of you track the specials they have especially around Xmas and holidays. Buy a cleaning kit and 3000 rounds of 5.56 and buy 1000 rounds of green tip if you can find them. Get good and practice with both, then buy a trijicon rmr for the Glock, and a aimpoint PRO for the ar15. Emphasis on getting good.
Shit will not hit the fan, there won't be another AWB, but I live in cali so we are already cucked here.

>>31783444
smith and wesson M&P II

>>31783505
Why the hell would he need 6000-7000 rounds of ammunition?

>>31783444
5.45 ak

>>31783518
Cause ammo gouging

>>31783444
The US AK market is really bad right now.
If you want a rifle, the AR15 market is flooded and quality rifles are cheap.
Whatever yo uget, budget for practice and actually become competent with you weapon- that matters for more than the specific model.

>>31783518
Because of >>31783526
And because of needing to practice. You can buy a gun and just feel good having it, but when it comes to the stress is actually using it, clearing a malfunction in a three weapon, or just gettin gud. If you can't pike holes in paper in tight groups how can you expect to poke holes in people shooting at you or your family.
Hypothetically of course, because shtf is not impossible, but it would be temporary and not fallout tier no matter what. Also buy lots of ammo because in such a hypothetical the ammo would be a good thing to contribute when joining a community. Same with food, water filtration, spices, medicine, skills, etc. But assuming OP is a regular American who sits around all day then going shooting three times a week will not only be fun but it will be practical and educational. You can even pay for lessons, I know when I started with a handgun I sucked, I had to really practice and now I'm good.

>>31783444
AR is lighter and can be made more accurate simply by free floating the barrel.

AK-47 is cheaper to shoot (if you get Russian ammo) and is easier to clean.

>>31783444
radical firearms or m&p sport, or psa for starter AR

wasr, npap, vepr for starter aks (7.62x39)

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>>31783505
I live in SoCal actually, If I buy the upper and lower separately will I be able to get it in without getting the feds on me for having 'le dangerous assault weapon' ?

I currently own pic related as my sidearm because a cop friend of mine suggested it. Something about .357 being a gun that will put down a dude on pcp, where 9mm rounds might not stop them. It's not exactly a CC weapon, but I've put about 1000 rounds through it and it hasn't jammed up on me yet. I keep 1000 rounds of .357 saved up and have about 5 mags that I bought with it; was thinking about buying 5 more desu.

Is green tip that difficult to find? Where would be the best place to go looking for it? I don't think there's a Gun show coming to the OC area anytime soon, and I'm sure the police would be watching it like a hawk for anyone buying in bulk. Especially if I were planning on buying like 7000 rounds of any type of ammo lol.

>>31783562
I agree with this btw, I don't think I really knew my handgun until I put at least 500 rounds into it. I won't pretend I'm one of those guys who I see at the range wearing tac gear, or anywhere near as experienced as the cops that I see there every time I visit, but I like to think that I know a little more than the average fruit, nut, and flake in the cereal bowl of california.

>>31783533
>>31783521
I had only thought of the AK because I had heard of it's legendary durability. I've never had the opportunity to fire one because everyone I talk to makes it seem like AR is godly and AK is 'cheap russian shit'. I realize that a lot of that is patriotism talking, but I like to be practical when it comes to protecting my life.

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>>31783521
Also don't listen to this guy, 5.45 could dry up quickly and you will not find any commonality with other popular NATO rounds or American hunting rounds because it's a dirty fucking commie gun bullet. AKs are fun and they will have load of ammo sitting around but in a long term shtf I would be worried more about parts commonality than the "reliability"differences between a modern ak and modern ar. They are negligible, both are great as long as you spend the $. Get a vepr ak if you get an ak, or an arsenal ak made in America from Bulgarian milled parts. Both of those will be as accurate with good ammunition as most ar15 s in the closer distances. If you want longer distance, and hydrostatic shock (spahpin poawhah) think 308. It's a robust round that will defeat all but the toughest armor. Can also be found in the ar15 variety or even the AK variety as well. I just got a PWS mk220 and it runs 2000$. It uses a long stroke piston system similar to an ak, and has an enhanced buffer tube to help solve carrier tilt issues in ar platform guns using a piston system and not a DI system. Many people say the DI system poops where the gun eats because it fouls a critical chamber in the rifle with burned carbon from the propellant. A vepr however uses a piston, which is slightly heavier than the DI due to the weight if the solid piston. The vepr will not be as accurate at the ar however for various reasons, one being that it's not designed for precision like the PWS or other ar types. Another reason is the vepr 308 is only 900$ and is a very robust and well made cannon. You cannot work on a vepr or any ak like an ar however because the ar has such a huge following in America there are a whole galaxy of variety and common parts around.

>>31783632
Nope. You need to buy the lower California legal edition and get cucked. Dude fuck buy off Omaha outdoors or Atlantic Firearms or tombstone tactical and have them install a bullet button for your or even call classic Firearms and see if they do it but dear Jesus son you need to get your rifle asap so you can register it as an assault rifle, take off the hullet button, and not have to make a featureless abomination.

>>31783666
satan delivers?

Ok I know I'm going to sound like a retard here but, is bullet button the 'technical term'? I don't want to go to a gun store and ask for this and have the clerk give me 'that look'. Also, aren't 'assault rifles' banned in CA?

also, thank you >>31783651 for the comprehensive AK walkthrough.

>>31783632
That's a nice gun, but it's prolly big and heavy. In shtf you want light and easy to point around and conceal. Get the 9mm, use Speer gold dots it will put down any literal gorilla on PCP. They hit you, expand, and fragment. They don't go through targets often and they are what the police use
As far as ammo, use ammoseek app, use slickguns website, and look around using google. Don't go to gun shows they gouge unless it's really the convince you are paying for which isn't impractical if you have the $$. Also, in Temecula there is a reloading plant called American security brass and they sell high quality reloads of various flavors. They sell only in bulk 1000+ orders.

>>31783444
Just go vote for the love of God.
If you don't vote, you don't deserve a gun.
You can vote early.

>>31783713
>>31783713
Yes sort of its hard to explain this late but any gun with a bullet button or "magazine lock" will become an "assault weapon" by definition, so you will be able to remove the bullet button, so many say. NOT LEGAL ADVICE. After January you can get guns but they will need Darin's" bullet button 2" which is another work around strictly for ar types of guns. If I were you I would buy an ar but keep in mind you won't be able to buy an ak after December 19 2016 in California because there is no divisible way around the ban.
>>31783771
California is solidly blue his vote doesn't matter neither does mine it's not a swing state. Idiot. Hillary has won. There won't be another AWB and if there is it will be fought over worse than the supreme Court justice seat. Faggot.

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>>31783781
>There won't be another AWB

It already happened once before, what makes you think its a near-impossibility now?

>>31783795
The political climate and the gun industry size, and # of jobs created after 2000 and 2007. The Congress is solidly against another justice being elected by a dem. Think mandatory background checks and 10 round magazines and shall not issue CC etc for 8 years of Hillary, and massive spending on research for Gun violence bullshit on college campuses

>>31783817
The size of the gun industry + NRA is vastly overestimated, especially when compared against juggernauts like Soros and Bloomberg. And that's just two guys with a boner for everything anti-gun.

Let's just hope congress can fully shit on Hillary's future plans, democratic filibusters be damned.

There's a huge amount of trade-offs and things that decide the difference and what you want. I'll try and keep it simple.
>7.62x39 (AK-47)
PROS: powerful, easy to load subsonic for suppressors, rifle is extremely reliable and easier to disassemble + clean, ammo is relatively cheap to buy in bulk
CONS: not a very fast bullet meaning it will not have much range or accuracy, being a larger caliber it will also weigh more and take up more space in both the magazine and elsewhere, substantially more recoil, mounting optic sights to the AK is difficult/uncommon in most cases, AK iron sights are shit, ammo is common but will not be *as common* as 5.56 depending on where you live.
>5.56x45mm/.223 Remington (AR-15/M4)
PROS: extremely fast bullet resulting in superior accuracy and range, relatively low recoil, iron sights are superb on most AR models, parts are highly interchangeable on modern models, uses common rail systems making attachments easy to use and commonly found, ammo is cheap to reload (if you're into that), ammo weighs less and takes up less space in the magazine and elsewhere
CONS: cannot be loaded subsonic making suppressors not very useful (unless you can convert it to .300 BLK), kinetic impact will be great but wound channels will be very small meaning wounds will not be as great when not passing vital organs, AR's are very picky about ammo and reliability, must be constantly and properly maintained.

I don't want to sway you one way or the other, just giving all the facts I know and letting you decide.
My personal opinion? They're situational. If we're talking full on shit-hits-the-fan 2nd revolutionary war, I'd want an AR. Superior versatility and iron sights, much further range and accuracy, more common ammo in the US, and since I already own one I have the knowledge and some practice at maintaining it. But if we're talking full on nuclear/zombie apocalypse or societal collapse, I'd want the AK.

>>31784151
I call Bs on
> AR's are very picky about ammo and reliability, must be constantly and properly maintained.
I hardly clean my ar's unless they are match guns. As long as your BCG is good, the barrel is good, and the mags are good, your ar will eat any ammo you feed it. This is a common misconception about the ar15 is that it requires a ton of upkeep, I like the rest of the post id say the most frustrating thing about my 5.56 guns is the inability to suppress. But that's why we have 458 socom uppers.

>>31783938
>Let's just hope
Just vote Trump.

>>31783444
Coming from an AK guy, if you have no preference or have no affinity towards AKs, just get an AR.
AK market is garbage right now and I doubt you want to spend $800 on a mediocre AK or drop a grand on a decent AK.
While ARs are as plentiful and cheap as they ever have been.

>>31785462
Won't matter
>>31785513
This and also just focus on practice, it's essential. If you just buy a gun and that gives you Peace of mind and it's just sitting in a closet not being used you are not going to be able to use it in a defensive situation as well as what might be required. Not that nation wide shtf is going to happen in any of our lifetimes anyways.

AK74 is the best, brah.

Get a SLR104 and 1000 round of surplus 5.45, you are settled for life.

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>>31785559
> 1000 rounds
> Set for life
Cute

>>31785591
YEAH DUDE, WITH THAT YOU COULD KILL LIKE... 1000 DUDES, MAN
WHO NEED TO KILL MORE THAN 1000 DUDES, MAN ?

>>31785591
You can indeed buy more for target practice and such, but storing 1000 rounds of ammo is enough for SHTF.

Chance is you wouldn't be using that 1000 rounds in SHTF anyway.

>>31785607
And commercial, local-made 5.45 exists either ways.

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>>31785600
>>31785607
> Not having ammo to trade.
> Not having ammo to practice and make other people close to you practice.
> Not having ammo to give to friends
> Not being able to strengthen the tribe
> Unlike food and water once it's gone it's gone and your gun is useless

Food and water will be the hardest to stockpile, but gimme a fucking break 1000 rounds of anything isn't even enough for another Clinton president

>>31783518

To kill the "progressives" of course.

>>31785624
Bitch please, we can make our own 5.45 if we have a "tribe".

Not to mention Putin will rain down AK and 5.45 in case shit gets real anyway.

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>>31785723
Synthesizing smokeless powder in a shtf environment will be a totall waste of time. Think of all the other things that will need doing. It's worth spending the $ and just buying 5000 rounds for each gun you own, and that's just for panics. If it is a REAL teotwawki situation, it won't just be America frendo. Russia will be fucked too.

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>>31783505

This is good simple advice OP. If it sounds too costly you can probably cut down to 1k of the cheapest rounds you can find for each but make sure that in addition to el cheapo rounds to buy at least 200 rounds of 9mm defense rounds and 1k green tips (also known as m855) for the AR. Also the optics arent a must but are helpful, DO NOT CHEAP OUT IF YOU BUY THEM, anything cheaper than a good name wont be drop proof or sometimes wont even hold a zero through shooting and mounts are just as important.

I personally would definitely get the glock 19 over the glock 17. It's smaller so you can CC it but large enough to still be a fighting handgun. It will also accept glock 17 magazines where the glock 17 wont accept the glock 19 magazines (too short).

As for the AR get a 16 inch chrome barrel thats government profile in either 5.56 or 223 wylde (either can safely shoot 223 and 5.56) for barrel life. Dont buy stainless or pencil barrels. If you dont want to buy from online you can probably find a basic M&P15 nearby for 650$ (most police are issued these) but anything PSA makes will be objectively better.

Don't buy anything labeled "PTAC" from PSA though, it's there cheapest parts and some anons have reported quality problems with them.

>>31785784
OK, I might even try 10.000, 5.45 is dirt cheap pro.

>>31785883

Lastly, for the AR, buy magpul pmags gen3 preferred but gen2 is acceptable or metal gi mags.

Magazine choice matters, for something so simple you'd be suprised how often it makes a quality gun look like a jamming piece of shit. Once youve ran about 100 rounds through a magazine without issue put a piece of tape on it signifying that it's reliable.

>>31785935
I know it's dirt cheap, it's steel case and steel case wears down your extractors like a British girls accent wears on my patience.
Just go 308 and it's better than 5.56 or 5.45

>>31785964
This is also sound advice. Also, if you keep your mags loaded, indicate what is inside them
> Green tip? Green tape.
> Plastic tip hollow points? Red tape
Keeping your mags loaded and the spring under tension does not hurt them .

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Monitoring this thread.

Trying to decide if I should hurry up and buy another AR-15 lower, a complete cheapo AR-15, a cheapo AK-47, or something more obscure.

It's been tough finding a cheap SKS, which was my original plan

>Pic sorta related

>>31785994
Bullshit, it's a fucking Vepr.

It's made to shoot fucking 5.45.

>>31783444

get an AR, they're on average more accurate and have a better aftermarket

>>31786288
Bull, an AK74 is more reliable, has as much aftermarket with a cheaper round.

>>31786316

Their reliability is roughly equivalent and 7.62x39 has shit ballistics. Besides, the AK aftermarket really isn't comparable.

>>31786357
AK74 fires 5.45, which is the same or even better than 5.56.
>Besides, the AK aftermarket really isn't comparable.
Even magpul is making them now, all you need is a good siderail.

>>31786249
Yes I happen to own 4 veprs, vepr 7.62x39, vepr 12, 5.45, and 308 and love them all. Much better build quality than any other ak pattern out there except arsenal AKs. Personally, I like the vepr series better because it's Russian and its my personal opinion that they are made better despite not being milled.
My only gripe with the vepr is that the innards, are proprietary. I can't just go buy a replacement bolt or carrier group for it, let alone an extractor and yes they are robust but it's basic information that steel with wear steel more than brass will wear steel because it is just a softer metal. If you are using steel case ammo you are cutting down the life of your extractors by some amount.
Converting a vepr is also a bitch but it's fun

>>31786203
Buy a cheap lower, and buy a vepr ak.

>>31786316

>more reliable

In specific areas a quality one is but not in all areas. For as much as you spend on a quality one in the US I would go as far as to say a built AR15 could be more reliable than an AK

Also, ammo is more rare, parts are dramatically more rare conpared to ARs, it will likely be less accurate, and it will need a special mount for an optic

>>31786571
Unless you are willing to spend money on a BCM, nothing is gonna touch a Vepr in reliability.

And you can have an already converted, full to go Vepr at $1000 right now at K-var.

>Also, ammo is more rare, parts are dramatically more rare conpared to ARs
Not really, they are less popular sure, but they aren't rare.

>>31786636
Post a link to a spare bolt then. And extractor, pin, etc.

>>31783444
are these sten mk2's?

>>31786654
http://www.k-var.com/shop/Bolt-Carriers-and-Gas-Pistons/

>>31786707
Ok well firstly the bcgs are all out of stock and have been since the import ban for the most part. Secondly, most of these will not fit vepr because the vepr has proprietary parts because it was made with thicker parts and higher tolerances meaning the Romanian and Bulgarian parts will not fit a vepr. Pistons will prolly work but won't be as quality as the original vepr piston

>>31786781
At that point just get an SLR104 then.

>>31786809
I owned one, sold it a week ago because I just didn't like it as much as I like my veprs. Parts are only marginally more easy to find compared to a vepr too. And compare that to the parts availability of the ar platform it's easy to see which has better aftermarket

>>31786885
As said, AR15 is more popular because US is AR15 land, but the point is part kit for AK isn't rare either.

>>31786913
True I don't disagree. In fact I think OP should buy a vepr because after December 20th you won't be able to in California.
Sold my other ak because I made enough money for a PWS mk220, which uses a ak style piston system in a 308 ar package. Looks like a sweet gun.

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>>31783651
That graph is shit. I thought we got our collective heads out of our asses on what true direct impingment is and how the system Stoner created would more accurately be described as something else, derived from DI. Fluid piston among other terms (including the one in Stoner's actual patent) have been used here and by people who try to describe things accurately elsewhere.

Also piston ARs usually suck because they just let the locking lugs, the star bolt, bash itself and the interior of the chamber apart. Those bolts were design to essentially expand from inside pressure and PUSH off from the chamber when rechambering.

MOST piston ARs just fucking have the (new) piston push the bolt carrier group back from the top (totally destroying inline recoiling forces, arguably the most unique positive of the AR line) and pulling the locking lugs apart. Expect that shit to warp, break, and fuck up when you need it most.

If you want a standard-piston rifle, get one designed to have that type of piston from the ground up. Like the AK family.

>dat mudtest doe

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>>31787076

>>31787076
Got a PWS and I think I am just fine. Time will tell I have lots of DI guns now I want a piston ar and they seemed to have solved the issues around a piston in the ar. So has LWRC and HK and even ruger. Sorry about the bad graph was late last night and it was all I could find fast.
A few piston ar's in 308 have seen service and are generally thought to be ultra reliable in the field.

>>31787076
>>31787139
>>31783651

> This invention is a true expanding gas system instead of the conventional impinging gas system.

Directly from his patent.
https://www.google.com/patents/US2951424

>>31787273
Fucking cool

S&W M&P sport 2

about a dozen magpul mags

as much ammo as you can afford.

shoot it regularly and learn to clear malfunctions.

>>31787504
Best advice here