Why is /k/ so against swords and the likes?

>>31776952
Because guns exist.

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>>31776952
Because they aren't made by Chris Reeve.

>>31776981
>implying you cant like both

>>31776952
because we are too busy fighting over AKs vs ARs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YyBtMxZgQs

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>>31776952

/k/ isn't against swords. But /k/ is against mallninja faggots who think that a sword can outclass firearms. I happen to prefer swords to guns myself, but I recognize the fact that a gun is a vastly superior weapon.

>>31777215
oh okay yeha i hate people who think a swordsman can beat a gunman, i dont visit /k/ much so i wouldn't really know

>God created all men, but Smith and Wesson made them equal

>>31776952
Swords are fedora tier anyway.

>>31777213
this

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>>31776952
because memeshit like your pic isn't a sword. it's fedora tier toys that virgins burn their good boi points and pocket money on. Pic related, polish made sword, made to historical specs, price point 160$.

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>>31777353
pretty cool hobby desu senpai

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>>31777383

>>31777383
can you throw the pommel though?

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>>31777400
no, the pommel isn't screw off like shown in Glaiatoria manuscripts.

>>31776952
Does anyone have that image of the comic book where an advanced civilization battled each other with swords for thousands of years because of tradition and honor?

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>>31777421

>>31777421
still a really nice sword though, from what i can see

>>31777433
sounds dope as fuck

>>31776981
knives never run out off bullets

>>31777383
>cheap polish made historical spec sword
Where to cop?

>>31777441
http://szymonchlebowski.pl/index.php?

on FB: /SwordsSzymonChlebowski/photos/

>>31777467
here:
>>31777494

>>31777454

Biggest problem with a knife is your sphere of influence without throwing it. Also takes a lot of training to be proficient at CQC whereas any idiot can be trained to point and click in a few minutes.

>>31776952
Because the last time that swords were relevant on the battlefield was the civil war, and that's stretching it

>>31777454
no, but they do get stuck in the first ribcage they get lodged in.

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>>31777542
you can still take an interest in weapons that used for modern combat

>>31777544
>I go me education from Popular Culture Meme University

>>31776952
I don't hate swords, I just hate the faggots who say swords are superior.

A bullet will go faster than a man can swipe. A rifle can have greater reach than a sword if equipped with a bayonet.

>>31777574
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trench_knife#US_trench_knives

And those are just trench knives.

>>31777587
>A rifle can have greater reach than a sword if equipped with a bayonet.

>he hasnt heard of a zweihander or claymore or really any greatsword

i agree with everything else you said tho

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Swords are kinda useless.

Pic related is useful as shit.

http://youtu.be/0pzjghr9jKg

At 6 minutes in he shows you how useful it is.

No sword can top that.

>>31777574
Knives DO get stuck in bones and they can get stuck via other means.
> Anon knows jack shit but posts like he's an operator.
> Welcome to /k/ everyone.

>>31777421
Then how the hell am I supposed to end Chad rightly?

>>31777613

fucking zweihanderfags, those things are only build for smashing pikes, they also weigh a lot more than a bayoneted rifle.

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because brass knuckles are infinitely more concealable and equally deadly.

>>31777967

>hanging out with delinquents
>not having fine-tuned operator hearing and senses
>not being able to produce a burst of psychokinetic force, knocking him off balance and vulnerable for a roundhouse kick to the face

>>31777233
>smith and wesson made them equal
Close but no cigar.

>>31777531

That's not a problem if your opponent also sucks at CQC.

You don't need to be a master swordsman to just stick-em with the pointy end.

>>31777233
>God created all men but Samuel Colt made them equal

I believe thats the quote iirc

>>31778118
>This guy was trained by Zorro

>>31776981
/Thread

>>31777215
This. They're cool to look at, neat to collect, hell you could do the sport fighting if you want. But if you try to convince me that a sword can beat a gun in any way then that's where I have issues.

>>31776952

Nothing wrong with swords. It's the autistic retards who come to /k/ and shit the place up with their trolling and retardation that makes it bad.

>>31777614
What a dumb comparison. You're a stupid STUPID man.

>>31777383
Shortswords a shit

>>31779002
I literally have never heard of a single idiot claim that swords are better than guns in head to head combat. Not once. But what I do hear is literally faggots go to sword threads and talk about how swords suck

>>31777400
Wasn't aware the "end him rightly" meme reached /k/

>>31777903
Please... just stop. If even 4chan can't understand your autistic references, no one will except for that specific group of Skallagrim autists.

>>31777383
>op pic
>meme shit
Oh it's nothing really just the same mass produced symbolic design that's been used by Chinese poorfags to hack people in half for centuries.

>>31779221

What? I never said any thing about the sword vs gun thing. The sword vs gun thing is said around here by trolls though.

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>>31779232

Of coarse it did.

>>31777454
and how many people with swords and knives have died before that happens?

>>31776952
because /k/ is highly autistic, and with an overwhelmingly American user-base generally obsesses over the gun.

as a result of that obsession, they are inclined to denigrate anyone, or anything that is not gun-oriented (the "stop liking what I dont like" mindset.), and that has become an almost pathological need to act like shit-flinging chimps towards anyone with the remotest interest in swords. Doesn't matter if you're a weaboo who's convinced that honorrabu katana folded one million times can cut through tanks, or a HEMA sports type who enjoys learning for the sheer fun of it as a hobby, or if you're a collector of genuine 15th century originals, or owner of a wall-hangar. All are lumped into the same blanket category, as "noguns", in a rather sad effort to get some sort of sense of superiority over them.

>>31777542
I'd argue WW1, myself, but even then, relevancy doesn't mean they weren't obsolete.

>>31780072

I doubt any swords were really used in the trenches, but plenty of blunt and stabbing implements were.

charging across no man's land with swords is an excellent way to catch a rifle round in the chest, but without a rifle you can't fire back, so what's the point of a sword?

>>31776952
I like cleavers and I like DEUS VAULT looking sword.

What blade should I get?

>>31781022
Most officers had a sword and a handgun. Most of the handguns were kinda shit in a fight.

because most of the time people who post swords post mallninja bullshit that would explode into a gorillian pieces the moment you actually used it for anything other than hanging on your wall to impress other mallninjas.

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>>31781183

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>>31781424

>>31777564
Sauce on the webm?
Thanks

>>31781601
beats me i just found it today

>>31776952
Despite the zombie theming they make some insanely tough blades: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itE3_p7Fxwg

>>31777383
>Zombietools
>Memeshit
They actually make some tough, well built swords. They aren't wallhangers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8UrvkPnY8s

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>>31780068
The gun is good. The sword is evil

If you own SLO bullshit then you can get fucked.

>>31776952
We don't

We hate swordfags

>>31781254
Private purchase trench knives were popular with officers

Even the long bayonets were cut down for trench knives, long blades didn't really have a place in trench warfare

>>31776987
You need to get out of here stalker.

I happen to love swords, but I think most people (myself included) recognize that, in this day and age, guns are a much superior weapon. Swords are only good in certain, uncommon situations. That said, I would love to own a real, decent sword.

>>31776952

because firearms are preferred

>>31781601
>>31781651
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GoQlvc_H3s

youre welcome

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>>31776952
Because the use and function of the sword has, for the most part, been romanticized throughout history by storytellers because in all the stories our heroes are either nobles or rebels who overthrew nobles and became nobles themselves. Historically the sword was almost exclusively a ceremonial weapon and/or a weapon reserved only for use by nobles and royalty. In "ye olden tymes" the cost to forge and engineer a weapon made of that much iron or steel was astronomical and it would have taken a very long time to hammer out just one sword with the tools they had at the time. Not to mention the quality of the metal was absolute shit and the blades had so many flaws in them that a lot of them would snap almost immediately against a wooden shield. It made much more sense to spend that money and time to hammer out a bunch if axe and spear heads. Soldiers could carry a spear head or an axe head among their gear and it didnt take up much space or add much weight. Then of course they could manufacture a shaft of some sort out of a small tree or branch once they reached the battlefield. If a swords blade snaps then you're fucked. If the shaft of an axe or a spear breaks you just shove another long stick up the ass end of it and jump back into the fight. The reason you think the sword is cool is the same reason that all of our action movie heroes are somehow able to fight off an entire gang of terrorists using only a pistol. It's a romanticized idea that tells a fun story but realistically the sword just isn't really a very good weapon.

>>31783492
>Historically the sword was almost exclusively a ceremonial weapon and/or a weapon reserved only for use by nobles and royalty
I love this meme

>>31783502
give one reason its a meme

>>31777903
Chad fucking thundercock. Always fucking your shit tier waifu.

>>31783517
Prices on historical swords varied greatly, depending on the time you're talking about, the region, the quality of the weapon. Sometimes sure you're correct and a good sword would cost you a lot.

However come later medieval times - say late 14th/early 15th century, every single man at arms in an army would be carrying one on his hip, the price of one sword would simply cost a few day's wage that anybody could afford, to insanely expensive things like henry the 5th had several of which were like you say.

And this is not including the fact that swords don't just vanish, plenty of 12th century swords have been found with much later period hilts, even reforged blades to suit a later time period.

An english archer around this time period would earn 6 pence per day, that would be enough that he could - ignoring living expenses - could go and purchase an old rusted sword - a very much so still useable, just ugly as fuck - every single day that he got paid because not all things were purchased brand new. On the other side you have king henry the 5th who commissioned 12 swords made to be used as gifts to other rulers valued at 2000 pounds.

A good analogy is a car. Fastforward 500 years from now and ask the question "how could anybody other than the richest of the rich afford a car when this ferrari costs hundreds of thousands of dollars?" The answer is, just like with a sword in the late medieval period, people didn't buy the most expensive thing even though nearly everyone owns a car.

>>31777531
I beg to differ. Tactical shooting is much harder than knife fights.

The whole point of havinga giant blade was to deal with other giants blades in the open.

Not only is tons of combat indoors now, with firearms, most hand to hand combat will be close. Swords need space.

World war I showed us what weapons were good for modern combat. Tomhawks, knives, shovels, clubs and fists.

I prefer hawks. Armor is getting better and penetration is important, especially against kydex and heavy nylon. Plus they doubles as entrenching tools and can be thrown.

Shovel is good too. A small knife ain't a bad thing to have either.

That looks like a blade an Incubus would use

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>>31783874

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Nothing wrong with swords, fun things are fun.

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>>31784141
these fellas

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>>31781183
>I like cleavers and I like DEUS VAULT looking sword.
You need one of these.

A cleaver that comes from the Morgan Bible, aka the Crusader Bible.

Look up Maciejowski (another name for that bible) cleaver

>>31779247
The dadao is a fairly new design though, mainly in use since the 19th century.

Swords are for larpers.

To be honest I came to /k/ hoping to see some discussion about bows, but I guess they're also looked down on like sword threads.

>>31783517
Here it is: people have been killing each other with knives/swords ever since the begginning of recorded history.

Don't blow the retarded fragment of info you got about late medieval Europe out of proportion cause it just mkes you sound like the douche you actually are. Remember - this is the internet, people won't know you're a douche unless you're dumb enough to demonstrate it yourself.

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>>31784355
No. Foam is for Larpers, and Larpers are cancer.

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>>31777384
>posting theatrical dancing

>>31785635

what about rattan sticks then? You know, the kind of full contact shit where if the participants don't wear 14 gauge steel helmets blows to the head could kill them?

>>31785829
that's called SCA fighting.

>>31777967
it was nice to find out he went back to prison for this.

It's not the swords, it's the type and quality of person who tends to collect and talk about them.

>>31785874

Yeah, would you lump that in with larp?

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>>31783492
That's bullshit.
Even in the early middle ages, if a common man saved up and got a bit lucky he could afford a sword. Most people had longseaxes, which were the machete of their day, and were as long as a shortsword and were used like a sword was used for. A sword cost the price of 2 cattle, so if your average Anglo Saxon Male shot a few deer and foxes and got some nice pelts, had a good season for growing crops and saved up a bit he could have a good sword that wasn't a langseax.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhzxpZxBkSk
Progressing to the middle and late middle ages almost everybody could buy a sword, and they were cheap.

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>>31785888
no. LARP is usually fantasy based, running around with foam.
SCA is where you choose from the 500's to the 1500's and fight with that gear, but safe enough for SCA (crotch protector, proper SCA helmet with enough gauge thickness), enough padding, etc. you might see a norman fighter against a 15th century knight in SCA. you can die if you don't wear proper gear.
then reenactment is showing off to the public, fighting in gear from 1 era, and can be from any era, greek to ww2.

HEMA is fighting from medieval fighting manuals. There is HEMA for eras that didn't have fighting manuals, and that HEMA is mostly based on artwork and trial and error.
most channers tend to call anything playing with swords, whether they are foam or rattan sticks or metal as LARPING though.

>>31785920

Thank christ. I have to try to explain people all the time that SCA isn't LARP but they never listen, the bruises and welts my brothers have laid onto me during our practice sessions show that it's more than some foam bullshit.

I wear armor carved out of a plastic barrel because I'm a poorfag though, but the helmet makes sure my brain remains not fucked

>>31785891
>>31785920

Also these armor pictures never fail to get me hot and bothered, it's good shit anon.

>>31776952

If you know how to use a machete or tomahawk, by all means use it after you've exhausted your rifle and sidearm.

>>31785891
Hell, the Grosse Messer was literally a common man's sword that got around the sword restrictions because legally it was just a big knife.

>>31786387
The messer thing is more likely to do with the people making it, not the people carrying it.

German cutlers couldn't make swords due to guild/government restrictions at the time- "you're a knifesmith not a swordsmith, you can't do that!" So they made "knives" that was (almost) a sword but technically was still a knife

>>31786441
A "sword" was legally a double-edged blade with class carry restrictions. Messers were knives because a single-edge blade wasn't considered a sword.

Can we talk about archery for like 5 minutes though

How reasonable is it to have a long bow and like 30 arrows stashed for SHTF?

>>31786490

I can't imagine those being of much use unless you have a good distance from targets, a good bowman, and have the advantage of surprise on your side

>>31786483
Nope, knives and swords have to do with the tang construction, not the number of edges.
Besides carrying of swords didn't followed the same rules everywhere in Europe (as logical as this seems). You didn't have to be a gentleman to own a sword in many countries.

>>31786387
The Grosse Messer isn't a langesmesser, those were the common men's weapon, grosse messer were more war swords for sorta wealthy mercenaries, swiss pikemen or landsknecht types.

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>>31786483
I suspect it has more to do with the tang construction, it has to be "full" (To use more modern knife terms) tang with a pinned construction - otherwise you'd be seeing a lot more falchion like messers

>>31786512
I mean image you have bear tearing arrowheads and you have a 200yard range
Kevlar probably won't stop arrows
Plus you can go get them from your freshly dead ted

>>31781424
>>31781522
Not as tantalizing as longsword

>>31784215
Hmm, always thought they were kinda funky but kinda liking it now

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>>31784215
>>31777383
>>31777215
I need to freshen up on the crusades.

Bucket helmet and long swords look neat. I'm half Persian & idk what's was Persia's involvements and their weapons if any.

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>>31776952

If any of you /k/omrades are interested in historical data and background of swords as well as other medieval weapons and armor, i can only recommend the YouTube channels of both 'Scholagladiatoria' and, to some extend, 'Lindybeige' (although he is pretty britbong-biased). Both amazing channels, they really do inform themselves accuratly on historic topics before making a video, and are nothing like the 'Uhhh-me-gosh,it's-a-Katana/Greatsword-tank-slicer' faggots populating the internet

>>31779372
>that pic
>medium kek

Sword enthusiasts have a much higher population of autismos and fatties.
This is attributed to two major things, swords used to and still to an extent mythical status in stories, and now a days they are much cheaper than your average firearm.
This can also explain why autismos who consume copious amounts of anime also collect bladed weapons, ie. Anime has alot of autismos, and anime glorifies bladed weapons.

>>31776952
guns and bushcrafting knives are more fun/practical

>>31787584
>and now a days they are much cheaper than your average firearm.
But that's not even true.

Guns these days are incredibly cheap and unless you're talking about stainless steel wallhangers, it's cheaper to buy a shotgun than it is to buy a longsword.

Excluding katanas, because their popularity has enabled chinese forges to make decent quality things for pennies, you can buy a differentially hardened 1060 katana for under $200, and you can buy a functional 1045 katana for $60

>>31787633
>Shoothing things
>Bushcrafting
>Fencing

There's no real overlap here. You might as well say that gardening is more fun

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>>31783223
>penis is evil

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>>31777967
>his """"""friends"""""" standing there doing nothing, not even saying 'stop'
>girl walks right up to him to push him off

I hope they weren't his friends, cause they're probably not anymore.

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>>31783492
Actually, by the mid to late medieval period (speaking about 12th to 15th century), swords were pretty affordable for any lower middle class people, they cost about the equivalent of a expensive smartphone today. If it broke, you simply bought a new one. Swords were however never really used as primary weapons on the battlefield, they were pretty much useless against armored opponents (which you had a reasonable chance to run into in a larger battle) compared to polearms/blunt weapons. Unless you are speaking of longswords in the late medieval period, swords were normally carried by many soldiers as a secondary/tertiary weapon, in case you lost your polearm/battleaxe/warhammer, or were caught in CC as an archer/crossbowman. Swords were however often carried in civilian context (as depicted in many paintings/portraits), because they were excellent against unarmored robbers and much more comfortable to wear daily than your average polearm.

>>31777967

That kid learned a good lesson...around blacks, never relax.

>>31777233

Unless he is using a shield that gets submerged underwater.

Plus wasn't the saying suppose to be that Samuel Colt made them equal, not Smith and Wesson?

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>>31786490
i'm in bongland so I actually have a bow and 40 arrows for the SHTF. it's a 90 pound draw weight selfmade bow. it's better than nothing. advantages are that it's silent, requires less care than a gun, arrows can be made in nature, but that's all. if you want to carry a bow for your bugout bag don't treat it like a crossbow and put it in there and never use it again, you need to pratice every week to be good.

>>31777967
around blacks
never relax

>>31787641
>Excluding katanas, because their popularity has enabled chinese forges to make decent quality things for pennies, you can buy a differentially hardened 1060 katana for under $200, and you can buy a functional 1045 katana for $60
Well, if you want one to high quality standards it'll cost you just as much as good western blades. Maybe more because of how labor-intensive an authentic model is to do right.
http://www.thaitsuki.com/item.php?ItemID=9

>>31787857
are warbows with a draw weight >120 pounds illegal in the UK?

>>31787897
thaitsuki's not really worth the money they ask from what I hear, there's a lot of complaints about them from people who actually know what to look for in a katana (I don't) and at that price you're better off buying a bare blade off a custom smith and slowly getting it mounted to your liking or getting something from someone else

>>31783665

This is so false that it's hilarious.

I have taught 115 pound women how to hold their own with a gun, you'll have half that success with a knife.

>>31787910
any kind of bow draw weight is fine in the UK.

>>31787857
Yeah of course, I'm not assuming I'm a pro cuz I watched game of thrones, but I would prefer to use my gun
Although my gun is only a 22, so a bow could be legitimately more deadly

Poorfag from commifornia here
All I really have is my 22, and a cheap ninja sword
Slightly better than mall quality, sharpened to shit
Been thinking of buying a bow
Then i saw that dirty hippy on YouTube make a bow with a rock and a sapling and i got sad I live in an urban area

Fucking cuckfornia ass Walmart
>Sells tipless arrows
>doesn't sell arrowheads

>>31786441
>this
German cities at the time didn't restrict common folk from carrying swords in town boundaries like France and England did

>>31776952
because you get shot.

>>31782485
I live in the city they're based in and run in the same social circle. Guys are arrogant sperglord cunts. Regardless of the quality of the swords they're made by assholes without basic social skills who seem to think they don't need them because their shit is on TV.

>>31782485
ok next time I'm attacked by horde of beer cans I'll go straight to those guys.

>>31788879
>I am a facetious twat
Congratulations on missing the point. Reposting the other relevant video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itE3_p7Fxwg

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>>31788735
Meh. They make pretty tough blades and are willing to beat the shit out of them to prove it, and have their own aesthetic style to stand out while still using proven historic base designs. Why make a big deal out of their personalities?

>>31788605
Archery is a fun hobby. .22 and bow are good in a survival situation, use .22 for hunting small game if you want it to be easy and a bow going into a person will kill them if the bow can kill a deer.

>>31777213
/thread

>>31777614
The sword is known as the 'prince of weapons' specifically because it has no utility as anything other than a weapon. Further more, it is hard to make and requires more skill to use than an axe or club. That's why swords are cool, they are always the weapon of choice of an elite martial class.

>>31776952
Because in contemporary warfare and self-defense, they aren't practical.

>>31777215
Fuck me that's a cool sword.
I'm not sure how they price these things, but I assume anything under $150 is a wall-hanger, whereas anything above $300 is usable for HEMA and what not, right? I only ask because I see lots of $200-$500 swords, but also the occasional $2000 fucker on some of these online smithing stores.

>>31786490
Arrows have killed people for tens of thousands of years. It'll do the job.

Just make sure you get a head or heart shot, otherwise Tyrone will get you before he bleeds out.

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>>31776952

I made a this kanabo over the weekend.

>>31792153
>how to get your weapon stuck on your enemies clothes in 15 places with one swing

>>31777383
Is that a type XIV by windlass?

>>31786490
Bows are more difficult to get good at than guns, which was one of the main reasons for the transition.

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>>31792153
Where are the fuckin spikes faggot

>>31792153
watched Zednaught Alpha much? Their even worst SHTF pretenders than some of the fags on here.

>>31792153
Looks ineffectual. You're supposed to have the sharp end face out.

>>31792153

are those carriage bolts?

>>31792730

They are. 192 of them exactly. Whole thing ended up weighing about 7lbs.

For the critics: it's a fucking stick with metals studs in it. Get over yourselves.

>>31791298
In the olden day however swords were the best weapon in a civilian context/for self defense, since a polearm, despite its superiority, isn't the most comfortable to wear on a daily basis

>>31790685
The primary weapon of choice on the battlefield was very rarely the sword throughout human history, most of the times it was polearms, sometimes also warhammers/-axes or warbows

Exceptions: Roman legionaires, longswords of the late medieval period

>>31792620
Guns, even the early muscets, also had better range, could - in contrast to arrows or crossbow bolts - penetrate the armor breastplates of their time frontally, and had a far, far superior stopping power (an arrowhead will just poke a hole, the shaft following after doesn't cause damage - a .50 cal ball of lead will crush and rip open far worse wounds)

What's a good, long, sturdy blade that can easily chop off limbs?

>>31792806
>metal studs
That reminds me of the Hollywood/tv series leather fetish in armor recreation
>REEEEEEEEEEEE

The real question is why dont we have guns that shoot swords?

>>31793193
Why going for overkill and chopping off entire limbs?

>>31793217
>sword
Thats an odd way to say katana.

>>31793281
I dont think Katanas count as swords. They are all Autismo Stabbianus.

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>>31793208
Metal studded leather was actually pretty common throughout the world.

What they miss out on was that the studs were rivets holding a lining of metal plates under the leather.

>>31776987
>Chris Reeve.
why is he a meme?

>>31782446
i love their stuff, looking to get the Zombie tools war cleaver.

>>31789300
Because he wasn't allowed to be a groupie.

>>31776952
I bought a zombies tools sword and then someone took it from me. Worked really well with decapitating livestock in a very humane fashion

>>31784170
Your gun will break before that blade does.

>>31785937
>>31785920
>>31785888
>>31785635
>>31784355

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zds9gHLXVFM

LARP can be alright

I think the guy at 28 seconds on the right probably died though

>>31793946
>LARP can be alright
you are wrong

>>31793459
overpriced knives

>>31793918
can't throw your sword anywhere near as far as that """"""""""""""""gun"""""""""""""""" shoots

Are Smith and Wesson knives any good?

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>>31794155
Rather fond of the HRT for general purpose knifework.

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>>31787687
> PUSH ALL THE FUCKING NIGGERS INTO GAS CHAMBERS OR OVER THE FUCKING WALL AFTER 200 YEARS ITS OBVIOUS THAT WE DONT NEED THEM AND THEY HAVENS CONTRIBUTED ANYTHING

>>31793253
So I don't die

>>31794412
Then cut/thrust to fatal areas

>>31776952
nice valco post faggot

>>31794436
I don't know how strong the fur or skin is of the things that could kill me, plus the only fatal area that would be worth going for would be the throat, but they're way taller than me, and if I stabbed it in the stomach it would probably fuck me up.

>>31794511
>Monster hunting
http://www.zombietools.net/shop/reaper/
http://www.zombietools.net/shop/big-bad-wolf/
http://www.zombietools.net/shop/deuce-ii/
http://www.zombietools.net/shop/reaver-cleaver-2/

>>31794604
you literally saw these in a mall a long time ago and are now shitposting on 4chan about it, what is your life

>>31794629
>ZT
>Mall blades
Well, you're a right ignorant cunt, ehn'tcha?

They aren't perfect, but I was replying to a guy who clearly thinks he's going to be fighting something immune to bullets.

>>31794604
Are these actually gonna work or are they just shit you buy at the mall?

>>31793918
>actually trying to convince us that swords are still relevant in the modern world

>>31794662
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqwdACk6V4Y

Skallagrim may not be my favorite person to watch, but the tests show that they're pretty tough to break.

A huge step up from typical mallninja shit because they actually cost money and won't break by hitting some cardboard

HEMAfag here, following this thread

>>31785653
They are doing drills you troglodyte

I don't like sword because swords are weapons. Nobody needs a weapon that can maim a person so terribly.

>>31793330
bu- bu- but they can slice through tanks and chop rocks in half!

>>31795164
also a Scholagladiatoria subscriber?

Sword and shield here, polearms are for fags.

>>31793350
Yeah, sadly its obviously as fuck that no costume manager working for Hollywood has ever seen a brigandine irl, nor has heard of the word at all. In Hollywood everyone is used to the idea that its the leather that is protective, and the metal studs just adds a little bit of biker gang style. The leather used for the costumes isn't even thick or multi-layered, its just a thin, floppy sheet to make the actor more comfortable, while historic brigandines are just as stiff as plate armor. Also the arrangement of the studs doesn't make sense in a holding-the-metal-plates-together way. And even worse, the leather fetish has already spread to helmets and (fore)arm protection, where there is not a single historical account nor any practical sense behind it. Excamples: Gladiator, King Arthur, Vikings, the later seasons of GoT...

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>>31787780
>pretty much useless agianst armored opponents
exept that fencing techniques against armored opponents exists, and were used on the battlefield, accordig to multiples italian and german codex/manusctips. being used at war is also the reason why greatswords exists.

pic related.

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>>31795766

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>>31795766
these techniques often resulted with a wrestle grab, to finish the fighter with a dagger hit to some weak spot of the armor or the point of the sword itself

>>31795695
Everybody knows scholagladiatoria

>>31795766
you are totally right, but I wasn't speaking about longswords/greatswords there

>>31787780
>Unless you are speaking of longswords in the late medieval period

maybe poor choice of words on my behalf though

>>31787780
>Swords were however never really used as primary weapons on the battlefield
I never understood how this is brought as somehow a bad point. They aren't primary because you can have them PLUS a longer weapon that you can't haul around, so no reason to start sword in hand when you can have a polearm and a sword at your side. This is why swords aren't primary, it has nothing to do with their "strength" or whatever.

Besides, if all the people who can have a sword do have them, it certainly shows that it's a very important weapon in a warrior's kit, which it was it pretty much all warrior caste and beyond.

Use of swords was extremely important to know because you can't pretty much use a sword in any kind of confrontation sorta ok, while all the others, because of their lenght will have an issue (too long or too short). Swords are the perfect middle-range, that's why it was said that all the people who have a long polearm need a sword as well, while the people who have a sword can make do with it alone.

>>31796525
in a direct comparison, the polearm had a advantage over the sword due to its superior reach, while the sword couldn't really get into the fight. That's why people carried, in addition of the secondary sword, polearms or other weapons. If swords had been the best weapon on the battlefield, they would have carried two swords.

The situation changed however once you included shields or full plate armor, those negate the reach advantage of polearms or ranged weapons and make the sword revelant again.

If armor stands against armor, I would neither go for a polearm nor a sword, but a blunt weapon. Warhammers and maces were the best option for dealing with full plate armor, because they don't rely on penetration.

>>31796525
>>31796721
>Reminder that 99% of medieval warfare was siege warfare

Those huge, memorable battles are that because they're so rare. It was easier to just surround them and starve them out.

>>31796721
So the polearm has an advantage out of armor where it was rarely used and lose the reach advantage when in armor where it was mostly use... that sure is great.

What you are saying is that the sword can always be kind of ok... which is exactly what I was saying all along but well.

My point is that people had swords because they could wear it, that's the distinctive feature, it can hang around and it's the largest weapon you can have easily accessible. Whatever weapon can't do that you carry it by hand. Each weapons has a purpose, if you can have more of everything, you go for it.

In civilian context it's completely different because you aren't going to use your weapon a lot, which is precisely the opposite of a battle situation where you gear yourself because you're going to fight. That's why stuff like short swords, messers and smallswords were valid for civilian carry, because you need something that is fairly light and not too cumbersome, especially if you aren't using it but a couple of times a year at best.

>If armor stands against armor, I would neither go for a polearm nor a sword, but a blunt weapon.
There's a lot of polearms that were blunt weaponry though.

>>31796829
>It was easier to just surround them and starve them out.
In fact it was easier to negociate the surrender, starving people isn't that easy when they are suppose to be ready for that, you need a vastly bigger army and it need to be fed as well. The defenders could beat you at the food game, plus you're the one that is left in the open.

If you look at early poliorcetics, it's 90% about treason, paranoid guards and 10% about actual siege stuff.

>>31796829
same basic rules apply

>>31779215
>What are early swords?

This is like saying that muskets are shit

>>31796835
You'd always want to take a sword with you of course, as well as a dagger, but going to war you'd want to choose another weapon as the primary. In full plate, that would maybe be a longsword or a polearm, but most likely a blunt weapon (especially if full plate enemies are expected). Archer or crossbowman doesn't require further explanation, just take a sword with you as well. As a (lightly armored) foot soldier, in which case you'd make up the majority of the army (usually), you would most definetly want to take a polearm. The reach is the most important advantage one can have over enemy foot soldiers, and in fact the ONLY advantage you can have over a guy in full plate wielding a longsword or a warhammer.

>There's a lot of polearms that were blunt weaponry though.
that's right, the definitions blurr when it comes to polearms. i was referring to spears, bills, gleves and such. You can ofc always stick the head of a raven's beak onto a longer pole

>>31779215
tell that to the countries ran over by the Roman legions

it depends entirely on whether you have a shield or not, and which kind of shield it is, as well as the combat situations you want to create on the battlefield

>>31776952

because the person with the most distance away from you who can still kill you in under a second is always the winner.

>>31797092
Advances in metalurgy, combined arms theory, yadda yadda.

Hadrian's legions would have been roflstomped by landsknecht

>>31797557
Guns against Roman legions are unfair.

>>31795766
Greatswords were employed mostly against partially armored targets though.

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>>31795766
>>31795769
>>31795775
Half swording is fun

>>31776981
This OP

I love swords and knives, but I would never carry them when guns exist.

Besides, almost nobody carries a weapon around anymore. As murricans we get a special right thats denied to a lot of citizens, whether they realize it or not.

>>31791435
>whereas anything above $300 is usable for HEMA and what not, right?

If you're going for the real shit? The least you could expect is around maybe $700-800.

>>31797889
guy on the left was retarded
>I have the reach advantage!
>I'm going to make a slow sweeping attack
>and then I'll close the gap between us!!!!
stupid fuck deserved to be stabbed in the throat. In a real fencing situation, they would use the reach to their advantage, and use their footwork to maintain that advantage, not eliminate it.

>>31798124
>In a real fencing situation
Good thing it's just a drill then... there's nothing retarded in doing drills, you just need to understand what they are for.

>>31788605

>Go to an actual sporting store.
>Buy Arrowheads.

>>31795164
>no HEMA in East iowa.

I sad.

>>31798080
I guess I'm looking for a reputable smithy to get a HEMA-qualified sword, not some shit off Amazon that will break after a day. At the same time, I don't need a LoTR elf saber or some shit, worth the price of a down-payment on a new car.

So something usable, but not expensive.

>>31777383
>>31777421
From where tho

>>31798201
So start one.
Virtually all HEMA clubs are begun by self-taught enthusiasts. It's not like there's some travelling knight opening up franchises.

>>31797631
Actually greatswords were used by specialized troops during the pike-and-shot era against dense enemy infantry formations with few to no armor

>>31798201
Yup ure the hero east Iowa deserves!

>>31798398
That depends on what you consider to be "not expensive"

What would probably be the best way, is look for second hand stuff on places like myarmoury or things like that.

Swords are primarily for fun.

Unless you are prepping for a serious SHTF where ammo running out is a factor... Or you just want to be 'that guy' that has a sword on his belt, whatever.

>>31798565
Less than $400.
I want something I can bang on people and learn with, not masturbate to while wearing plate armor

>>31798398
>I guess I'm looking for a reputable smithy to get a HEMA-qualified sword

Peter Regenyei: http://www.regenyei.com/

Jan Chodkiewicz, Ensifer: https://ensifer.carbonmade.com/

those are the two default standards for HEMA kit. both make excellent quality for very low prices.

in the US, you might want to consider Darksword Armoury's feder: http://www.darksword-armory.com/medieval-weapon/swords/hema-federschwert-sword-1702/

dead on your $400 budget.

but personally, I'd go for the first two I listed every time.

be aware, Regenyei has a bit of a waiting list nowadays.

>>31799195
>I want something I can bang on people and learn with
Then don't look for actual swords, look for federschwerts. I recommend regenyei

http://www.regenyei.com/en_feders_standard.php

>>31799251
>Darksword
I might want to avoid that, darksword armory swords are deathtraps waiting to happen

>>31798784
>Or you just want to be 'that guy' that has a sword on his belt
Why wouldn't you? Do you think you would look bad with a sword at your side?

>>31799332
>swords were an acceptable everyday carry item for tens of thousands of years
>suddenly became unfashionable in the last 100
Why live

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>>31799404

>>31797889
>>31798124
>try in actual combat
>get fingers sliced off as blade skates along

>>31799777
>Not how it works
>Moves all in combat manuals
>Buying the myth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwuQPfvSSlo

>>31798523
Exactly.

>>31798497
>It's not like there's some travelling knight opening up franchises

[citation needed]

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>>31799777
that's why you would want gauntlets

>>31787534
>sandnigger
I got bad news homie...

>>31798124
Armored combat is very difficult to simulate properly due to safety reasons. When doing unarmored you can wear safety gear and count hits. But simple hit does mean nothing for armor. It should has strength and accuracy to bypass armor and this obviously is unsafe. So representation of armored combat often leave kung fu >>31797889 movies aftertaste.

>>31776987
You're Sebenza meme isn't funny and was never funny. Please go away

>>31796721
>>31797064
>you can have over a guy in full plate wielding a longsword
>The situation changed however once you included shields or full plate armor, those negate the reach advantage of polearms
Polearms were the main weapon of many people including people in full plate. Halberds and the like can definitely get through armor, hence their widespread use.

>>31794155
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zds9gHLXVFM [Embed]
I have their Search and Rescue and its pretty quality. The only problem is that its not heavy enough for the things i do with it.

>>31779246
skall is an og, and his double barrel makes me fucking moist because i guess canada looks at it differently than the US doea

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Is there any way within HEMA or in something similar where you can simulate non-European nations from the same periods?

(pic partially related)

>>31802518
I don't know that there are that many non-European fightbooks.

>>31797970
Wars could be fought with medieval weapons on a honor system. If you cheat you get airstruck.

>>31776952
because /k/ is a bunch of big fat boofahs who are uncoordinated as all hell, and would end up chopping off their paunchy guts and feet before hitting anything else

>>31802518
>>31802529
> I don't know that there are that many non-European fightbooks.

Manouchehr Moshtagh Khorasani, travels around the place teaching Persian martial arts, you can find his stuff under the name Razmafzar.

for an intro:
https://freelanceacademypress.wordpress.com/2013/06/21/razmafzar-persian-martial-arts-alive-and-well-an-interview-with-manouchehr-mostagh-khorasani/


Technically, its not HEMA, its HAMA....

there's some greek stuff too, and of course there's the indian guys doing a load of batshit insane stuff.

>>31801566
The axe head of a halberd will definitely not be going through any sort of metal armor. When facing armored opponents they would be using the rear facing spike instead. Same thing with pollaxes and using the hammer end.

All polearms suffer when the opponent is within the optimal range of the weapon and armor makes this even more important because the polearm user is typically looking to defeat the armor through sheer brute force rather than poking a thin blade through an opening. Pulling the polearm in too far means not enough leverage to do much. That is where a one handed sword and a shield can really overpower and outmaneuver a polearm, especially if its a particularly pokey pokey sword.

>>31805078
>especially if its a particularly pokey pokey sword.
Except light, thin, thrust-focused blades were almost entirely from time periods where the individuals were more likely to duel in regular clothing.

>>31805237
Estoc lives matter.

>>31805078
>That is where a one handed sword and a shield can really overpower and outmaneuver a polearm, especially if its a particularly pokey pokey sword.
Except shields were pretty uncommon (not counting bucklers) during the age of plate due to advancements in plate armor necessitating two handed weapons. If you're using a sword, you're either half-swording or mordhau with it, which precludes the use of a shield.

>>31802518
Of course one can apply "HEMA" methodology to any given culture, as long as it produced actual historical documents related to its martial heritage. I know for sure some people is recreating Persian sabre combat alone and with buckler from the sources, and that's great.
On the contrary, too many people just grab some weird weapon and recreate (I'd say invent) ist use starting from nothing more than common sense, taking concepts (I'd say stealing) from other sound martial traditions. See so called African martial arts on yt which is nothing more than pilipino kali done tirh some African sword. Those are basically moneygrabbers or worse.

>>31777614

I've used one of these before, and I really hate it.

I hate that the corner is dull, it really bugs me.
I was using it to split firewood and it just rustled my jimmies every time I set up for a swing that I cant use the corner, the spot where I would be getting the most force for my swing.
Now with a normal hatchet I swing to hit with the bottom corner, usually one swing to stick, then whith the wood stuck to my hatchet another swing to split, but this tool is really not made for that. It was kind of awkward to swing, didn't feel good. I had to swing harder to get wood to stick or split, and everything they suggested I do with that back end bit I felt more comfortable doing with a knife.

All in all, I felt this thing to be a terrible tool, inferior in every way to a hatchet and knife.

>>31799777
You're stupid

>>31799777
>another retard thinks the edge of a sword is some kind of magically razor sharp HF blade that can cut through steel with ease

You could hold a sword blade in your bare hands and, as long as you're doing it properly (keeping pressure on the flat sides of the blade, and not the sharp edge) you'll be alright. Not a 'safe' move by any means, but if you're wearing leather gloves while doing so, there will be no "Skate" across your hands, because a sword doesn't break the laws of physics and friction continues to exist even where swords are involved.

You're not catching a blade in motion, you're grabbing it after a parry or evasion before your opponent can right themselves, or grabbing your own for extra leverage.

>>31783665
>Tactical shooting is much harder than knife fights
there are people who actually believe that

>>31800057
WHAT?
Pls!!

>>31787534
>>31807306
persia was conquered and islamized long before the crusades
by the time the crusaders arrived in the levant, persia had already become a muslim territory

>>31807345
I know that much, I don't think they liked Arabs very much.

>>31807532
What you might don't know, Persian historic martial arts exists: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFdGV2tE6yA

>>31776987
I thought he was paralyzed and died like ten years ago

>>31778118
>stick-em with the pointy end
A girl has no name.

>>31807540
Weren't ancient Persian swords straight too?

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>>31808385
ancient Persia is a fucklong time, so please be more specific. And they had several dozen sword designs, some straight, some not. Indo Persian weapons are some of the finest ever made.

>>31808385
>>31808465
Japan is kind of the weird one out when it comes to sword design. Most cultures had a pretty broad range of styles optimized for the bearer's needs, such as sabers for cavalry, straight blades for line warfare, etc.

In Japan's case, the mix of low quality, low availability iron ore and the extremely low importance of the sword in warfare meant that they just settled on a hybrid design that was good enough.

Persia had no such restrictions.

>>31794669
>be soldier in fuckthisastan
>enemy douches run out of ammo
>we subsequently run out of ammo
>proceed to throw rocks and helmets at one-another

I hate that you people think this scenario is either okay or that it will never happen.

Rather than
>we subsequently run out of ammo
>draw swords and other edged weaponry
>procede with the crusade
https://youtu.be/lIwlc6AfspI
>when I can draw-cut with a katana faster than these guys could pull their side-arms

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>>31808578
>In Japan's case, the mix of low quality, low availability iron ore
Oh, this meme again.

>>31808605
>Iron sands is a meme

>>31776952
because swords are impractical
not to mention for all intents and purposes basically illegal to carry around everywhere

>>31808605
I mean, it's true so...

>>31808738
>illegal to carry swords
>Federally illegal to carry double edged knives
>guns are perfectly cool though
Smh, I hate these fucking pussy-ass laws.

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>>31783665
Go back to the knife store in the mall where you belong. Wouldn't want them to file a missing person's report.

>>31778118
>That's not a problem if your opponent also sucks at CQC.
Its especially a problem as they will not act in any predictable manner, decreasing any chance of you coming out unscathed

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>>31808738
>not to mention for all intents and purposes basically illegal to carry around everywhere
Completely legal in Switzerland.

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>>31808884
What kind of fascist commie hellhole do you live in?

>>31808884
Fuck me, I'd carry a saber every day if it was socially-acceptable.

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>>31808893
Here you bring a sword to the general assembly, its beneficial for debate culture and fiscal discipline

>What kind of fascist commie hellhole do you live in?
meant for >>31808833

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>>31808906

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>>31808941

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>>31808896
You can shop up without a blade, but everyone will think you are a lefty whimp.

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>>31808960

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>>31808971

>>31808605
>Iron sands
>Not shitty iron

C'mon, I know anti-katanafags love trotting it out, but the iron -was- bad.

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>>31808986

>>31808884
>>31808941
>>31808951
>>31808960
>>31808971
>>31808986
>>31809041
context?
other than fuck you its legal so I can do this

>>31808998
Son, iron is iron it is a chemical element and one atom is a good as the other (isotopes left out)

If we talk about ferro materials, iron sands have their pros and cons they are low yield and labor intensive, but they are usually low in phosophor and other undesirable elements. So yeah, lots of work, meager yield, but chemically sound raw material.

>>31809058
Swiss direct democracy by general assembly, as a male, you gotta bring a sword. Army bayonet is acceptable substitute for poor fags. Bring your friends, bring booze, bring stabbing weapons and then talk face to face with your government about taxes, immigration and the like. To keep things fair, the head of government gets a longsword.

>>31777613
>Claidhmore
>useful any time after 1470

Even Mad Jack fucking Churchill only ever carried a basket claiBEG. The wee sword. And he still had multiple ranged weapons.

>tfw you will never carry a yew longbow into battle against Nazis

>>31809078
sheeet I'd love to hold a blade while speaking to my MP

>>31776952
Because American gun culture is designed to promote infantry skills so uncle sam has riflemen when he needs them.

>>31790685
>>31793047

Recognizing this, realize that the bayonet is simply a way to turn a firearm into a pole arm with no effort.

>>31787534
Well, if you was a Persian -Christian-, you might be able to nab a Bucket and Bastard if you met a few pilgrims on the road…

Though more likely you'd have a shamshir and round shield with light mail.

>>31792153
I hate your furniture and flooring.

>>31809059
>iron is iron it is a chemical element and one atom is a good as the other
>isotopes left out
>Iron II and Iron III are ``isotopes''
yeah................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................no

>>31809078
>bring stabbing weapons and then talk face to face with your government
>>31809099
shheeeeeeeiiiiiiiiittt why isn't this a thing in every govt.

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>>31777454
Where is your god now?

>>31809059
Japanese iron production methods were just sub par, their iron had a lot of impurities, it's the reason why they had to fold the steel, it evenly distributed the impurities. They just couldn't measure up to the Chinese, Arabs and later Europeans when it came to iron and steel, funny how isolationist policy hampers technological growth.

>>31809815
> funny how isolationist policy hampers technological growth.
Well, not just that, but China, central Asia, Europe, etc., could actually mine high-grade base ore to work from. China even developed blast furnaces 700-800 years before Europe did. Iron sand can probably be worked that way, but by using a bloomery smelt they could also directly introduce carbon as it melted through the coals while burning some impurities off. The particular version they use is a one-time use fired clay tub that they layer charcoal and sand into. 10 tons of sand and 12 of charcoal to get 2.5 of tamahagane raw bloom after 36-72 hours of effort on the bellows.

And they kind of had good cause to be isolated, up until the post-Warring States Shugunate Japan was on the attackee side of their relationship with China and Mongolia. And when spears and bows are the primary weapons of your warrior caste, swords are very low priority. Hence the "decent at everything, but not great at anything specific" design they settled into.

I just like hammers.
I know they're impractical, but they're durable and the most fun.
The more direct the method of destruction is, the more fun it is. However, there's often a decrease in effectiveness and actual destructive power.
Hammers are a great compromise.
They're the most fun to use for recreational destruction.

>>31809815
>their iron had a lot of impurities, it's the reason why they had to fold the steel, it evenly distributed the impurities
Everyone who uses bloomeries has the same problem, all cultures, all over the world. To work bloomery material into steel, this is the only way to do it. And it takes exactly the same ammount of time and work, be it in 18th century Japan or 7th century Europe.
P.S. Arabs? You mean Muslims I guess, because Indo-Persians (which are not Arabs) had some really advanced shit, like you know, crucible steel 300 BC .

>>31811469
Variance is always interesting, especially once you get into 19/20th century large-scale production. Iron mining in Minnesota for instance, right now is almost entirely strip-mine Taconite work because of blast furnaces that can blow out impurities from tons of molten iron at once, but they also used to have to do deep-earth Hematite mining because that stuff is almost pure Iron Oxide, and they'd essentially sprinkle it into open vats of molten Taconite and the oxygen would be burned out and act as an impurity blast-out.

>>31792620
I'd like to interject here. Getting good at bows is not a big challenge. You can get decent in a week. The challenge is getting strong enough to use bows heavy enough to punch through armor. Not so much of a problem these days.

>>31798523
They had armor at that point. Quite bit of it.

>>31794355
Well, I mean... peanut butter is pretty legit. And Jazz. And Blues.
The super soaker's awesome.
I'm sure there's more.

>>31811045

>I know they're impractical
warhammers were one of the most effective weapons against opponents in full plate armor throughout the middle to late medieval period. Even though they wouldn't penetrate nor even slightly dent the armor itself, a heavy hit to the side of your head could bash you senseless

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>>31812210

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>>31812210
better known as 'bec du corbin', the studs on the hammer were not meant to penetrate armor, but to 'grip' or 'bite' into it to prevent the blow from glancing off

>>31777213

Fun fact. Jones shooting the swordsman was improvised.

>>31777383

>Functional Sword
>Under $300

Pick one, senpai

>>31812338
Because he was sick as fuck and didn't feel like doing the whip vs sword scene. The way the sword actor just automatically went with it was great.

>>31809124
I'm a Persian attending a Christian university, does that count?

>>31809124
Why not a bastard and shamshir

>>31812946
>>31812991
being Persian and wanting a European sword is like having a Sphinx 2000 and wanting a Hipoint.

How common was the sword used in an army throughout history? I usually just kind of lurk every now and then but I saw someone say spears are more common because of how cheap they are to make.

>>31813056
All I know is I believe in the One True God and, like my ancestors before me, dislike mudslims and their doing.

>>31813056
Bastard swords are like hipoints?
Are curved swords better?

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>>31813486
No, but Persian crucible steel is like high end, superior to anything the Europeans had to offer until the 18th century and of sheer beauty. Today this wootz blades go for a fortune at auctions.

>>31776952
>Buying an aluminum sword.

>>31813572
I like both swords for reasons. Both have beauty and imagery that I enjoy.

>>31813855
Too bad can't have best of both worlds.

>>31813933
+ULFBEHR+T blades where European made swords, which used imported Persian Wootz steel. But they might be a little out of your price range.

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>>31813933
Other than that, swiss saber, bastard sword with curved blade

>>31813976
I'll look in to sabers thanks