Small business

Yes, I do have experience. Ask any questions you'd like, and I will answer them.

You will need an FFL to sell ammo.

Success in the gun industry is an uphill battle. You will probably fail. Most margins on firearms are <20%, ammo is usual 20-25%, accessories can be anywhere from 20-50%. More and more sales are shifting to online retailers on everything, especially accessories. What will you offer as a business that will persuade people to shop with you rather than online? Who is going to go to an ammo store that doesn't carry guns?

Keep in mind the business standard for successful business is a 33% margin.

>>31757490
Fuck Ohio. Literally a shit state with women who are absolute cunts that will leave you in shambles.

>>31757521
>You will need an FFL to sell ammo.

That's not true. You only need an FFL (06) if you intend to manufacturer ammunition for resell.

>>31757546
Scrub that, I made an assumption he was loading.

No FFL required for Resale.

>>31757521
Well I would plan on doing guns I just don't know if I could afford to right away. Depends on what business loans are available at the time. I have about $50,000 (potentially $120,000 with investor) and until I get more numbers together I don't know if it's plausible to stock shelves with arms, while providing a good selection of ammo and accessories.
Now I don't feel this will be a crippling factor as I feel online and personal sales are so prevalent these days that it won't effect traffic much. Everyone and their brother buys ammo at walmart here because there are so few vendors. Also I was under the impression FFL was not required for ammo sale see:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/license-required-engage-business-selling-small-arms-ammunition
Although I would obtain one for the purpose of transfers

>>31757610
Have you priced out the cost of the shop, plus buildout to include things like shelves and cabinets, point of sales systems, etc?

>Everyone and their brother buys ammo at walmart here because there are so few vendors.

Or they do because it is convenient. Granted, I don't know your area so you could be right in that fact, but speaking as a member of the industry there is one important factor. Convenience. The consumer will go to the place that is easiest for them to get to and is the most comfortable to shop at, especially when it comes to something like ammo.

I'm having a bitch of a time finding wholesale prices. Alot of places requiring business information which I have none as of this moment. Makes it difficult to put a portfolio together

How are you going to make a profit selling ammo when anyone can go to walmart and buy it?

You can't compete with Walmart on anything.

A $25 transfer a few times a week is not a sustainable business model.

Accessories are so specific and sell poorly. You need to hold a lot of stock and people will just buy what they want online for less.

The best business model nowadays would be having a tiny kiosk-sized store, do transfers for $5 less than anyone else and sell common magazines for $2 more than you can buy online. You would need to be in or very near a city for this. Even more ideal would be doing it in a UBC shithole like Colorado to broker private sales.

>>31757648
They will want an FFL number before they divulge anything. The margins are shit and shipping is murder. Unless you can buy a pallet, you aren't going to compete with a large retailer.

My father has an FFL (he does a handful of transfers a year and that's it) and I can tell you that wholesale pricing one a few pieces a year or a couple cases of ammo is essentially retail or more after shipping charges.

Any real wholesaler won't even talk to you if you are going to buy less than $5k or $10k in the first year.

>>31757639
Pricing out lease, insurance, shelving, display cases, etc are in progress. I have alot of the basics already priced from other business plans

As for Walmart, there are literally 2 gun stores within a 15 mile radius of the location I plan on operating. Both have very restricting hours and limited selection. Idk about anyone else, but I personally hate buying ammo at retailers like Walmart. It's such a headache dealing with impersonal employees and locked cases.
I'm a big fan of small business personally. I feel that I can offer the atmosphere and help that will help build a loyal customer base

>>31757723
>I personally hate buying ammo at retailers like Walmart.
Exactly, that's why I buy it online.

File: Screen Shot 2016-10-21 at 6.21.52 PM.png (80KB, 1712x276px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 1712x276px

>>31757648
This will probably be at a slightly better rate than what you will buy at.

But, you're welcome.

>>31757652
Because of availability and the headache that is doing anything at walmart. I wouldn't expect to out price walmart. But what I can do is offer better selection and stock the ammo that people actually want to buy, rather than stocking 20 boxes of ammo that the first guy that walks through the door cleans out.
>>31757680
I'm planning on roughly 30-60k in inventory. Not trying to peddle ammo out of my car

I've very briefly entertained the thought, and done some basic research.

Basically, its not worth it. Overhead is always greater than sales unless you have a range to generate revenue, or operate out of your garage or basement just doing transfers.

Liability will fuck you over constantly. Insurance and licenses will be expensive to maintain. Depending on location, local jurisdictions may actively try to remove you by imposing more regulations on them.

Wal-Mart and chain stores can support themselves without guns. You need a sustainable business to be able to get into the gun business. You might be able to pull that off with a range or gunsmithing, but that makes your investment much larger.

>>31757781
>stock the ammo that people actually want to buy,

That assumes that you'll be able to get it. Ammo availability is extremely cyclical, and ammo sales generally aren't that huge, even for gun stores. All the "good ammo" is generally allocated or out of stock.

Trying to warn you; doing this without a gun store to sell shit it not going to work. Now, if you're just doing this and don't need to draw an income for it, that is one thing, but if you actually plan on sustaining yourself on the business be very cautious.

>>31757743
Awesome anon thanks. I was hoping for 10% margin, if I can do closer to 20% this is more possible than I hoped.

>>31757803
I'm not looking to make a huge profit here, mostly looking to sustain and grow. I have other income sources to provide for myself. If I could do this and grow it into a nice gun shop that sells guns as well that'd be great, im just trying to figure out if it's plausible to have a store dedicated to ammo and accessories.

>>31757490
If you, as a gun shop, do not offer a quality built shooting range that can handle rifle rounds, you will have a bankrupt gun shop.

Or don't believe me, and run a business like it's 1960 and get rich selling shit to people for 15% more than online.

>>31757490
Give armslist some competition for online classifieds. That's the only place I buy guns, and I know they make bank from ads and premium sellers.
Seriously you're going to be sitting around with your thumb up your ass most of the time while you tend your shop. it's not hard to learn how to make a website.

Are you in Missouri by any chance? I'd love to work with you/for you.

>>31758329
I thought about commission sales as well
Just have to look into legality.
>>31758449
Ohiofag here sorry

File: flat,800x800,075,f.u5.jpg (87KB, 800x800px) Image search: [Google]

87KB, 800x800px

>>31757680
PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO READ THIS

I did industrial sales for a while.

Is it similar to that market where you have to make an initial buy at their free shipping price? Thats how i made money. I never bought anything in a quantity below the shipping minimum. With shipping factored out you have a margin to work with, then price according to market. All your inventory initially should be middle of the road high demand items, priced cheaper than others sell for. 9mm, 45acp, 5.56, 7.62x39/51 bulk range ammo, quality lubricant and cleaners, 5 boxes of home defense rounds in two respected brands of each caliber, paper targets, some quality scope mounts, calipers, punches, torque wrenches, the entire range of sizes of pins commonly used, etc.

The super secret trick you could use to create a clientele is to set up a small side room near the register with an entire workshop set up- a press and the tools needed to perform minor repairs and mods. Have a price list of each tool in the workshop. Let people use it to do minor stuff or if they just need a specialized tool. In order to use the shop they need to have a credit card or bank account on file and encourage them to set up a monthly line of credit.

This is the oldschool way my place was set up. It was a different market, but the principals are the same.

Create good will and foot traffic, be fully stocked 100% of the time. Open early, stay open late. Let people mingle.

>>31758468
Consignment not commission my bad

If you want to become an ammo seller, move to California. The state just gave a monopoly to ins-state sellers, starting in 2019. Your competition is eliminated, all the online sellers are forced to go through you.

>>31757490
Russ?

>>31757723
>there are literally 2 gun stores within a 15 mile radius of the location I plan on operating. Both have very restricting hours and limited selection
You know why? Because that's the only way they can manage to stay in business.

Margins in commodity firearms aren't there, and the market for specialty is narrow by nature. A range and selling consumables to user is where you will make money. Challenges are the three L's, location, liability, and lead. Does the area allow ranges? Will you be able to get insurance? How much will it cost do deal with lead or require lead free ammo. Upside can be clubs and leagues and their events spending on the reg and rental of arms to the curious.

>>31757490
OP, do you have any other business assets planned? One option would be setting up shop near 2+ ammo distributors. Warehouse pickups can greatly increase your margins (cut out the freight or shipping cost). Learn the secrets of free shipping and good discounting. Some sites have frequent sales that undercut everyone else. Check your laws, but you may just be able to load up a 1/2 ton with a pallet of ammo. If you do so, ensure that the first pallet is all 22LR.

Aside from that, if you specialize a bit, you'll probably do OK. Get accessories for 2-3 most common guns of each category and add them to inventory after you price the item for several months.

AR & AK mounts, furniture, and internal parts
R870 & M500 mounts, furniture, and upgrades
R1100 & M930 mounts, furniture, and upgrades
R700 & 10/110 mounts and bipods
Handgun sights
Magazines for your top 5 to 10 models
Lots of bulk ammo, some self defense ammo and a bit of hunting and match-grade

Focus on a good (usually included stock)-better (MFT)-best (Magpul) model when applicable. When you do buy guns, buy only the ones you're sure you'll sell. When ordering for someone, ensure that even your best customer knows that their deposit is non-refundable (call it $100 or 20%, whichever is greater) if cancelled.

Aside from that, focus on your bookkeeping. You want to always have an accurate inventory, till, and bank account. If you have a reasonably fast computer, a simple copy of Microsoft Access should cover you pretty well for inventory.

Last but not least, minimizing overhead is the best way to succeed. If you have a storefront, you'll need a fair bit of insurance. Build things yourself whenever possible or find them second-hand. (A lot of companies go out of business and you can walk in and buy their displays, their safe, their computers--etc for a fraction the cost.) A fresh coat of paint goes a long way, as will your sales skills.

>>31757532
So where we're you stationed?

>>31758722
Or they are old farts who don't know how to turn on a computer.

>>31757490
There is no money in buying wholesale and reselling because huge chains get bulk discounts and can afford profit margins you never will. You'll be stuck with a store full of overpriced shit every other store has, overcharging for transfers to try and break even. In the end you'll sell your stock off to some other store for a loss and close shop.

>>31758811
>Or they are old farts who don't know how to turn on a computer.
Assuming your competitors are all incompetent is not a good way to stay in business.

>>31758829
That being said, there is a tremendous amount of money in buying, selling and trading used firearms, if you avoid getting burned on specialty guns. You'd do best to make a circuit of the nearby gun shows with your inventory to pad your sales. Gunsmithing (if you're willing and capable) will also increase your success.

Gun stores only make money selling accessories and to sell accessories you need to stock a shit ton of them. Think about holsters. You have a customer that wants a holster for his LCP. Is it inside or outside the waistband? Kydex? Leather? Is it fit for a laser or not? Any given popular gun can have dozens of popular holsters for it. And there are a shit ton of popular pistols. Think about the variety of holsters you would have to stock just to be able to satisfy a customer shopping for holsters.

Ammo? Freight will fuck you over and more people get savvy about buying online every day.

Unless you have a really strong business model planned you will fail.

>>31758842
Because it's possible in 2016 to have a business with no website, and only open for 2 hours 1 day a week from 12-2.

>>31758927
No, of course not. Those gunshops must be CIA fronts to sell crack to niggers. It's the only thing that makes sense.

>>31757743
Can you explain this picture for the more laymen of us? Cause it looks like you're buying 215k worth of rifle ammo and selling it for a 54k profit. Is this a start of the year to current sheet?

>>31758957
>start of the year to current
YTD is what you're looking for

>>31758957
Are you illiterate?

>>31758766
>>31758797
Plans are ammo and accessories sale
Eventual arms sales
Firearm consignment
FFL transfers

Thought about range but where I'm located I feel the upfront cost would not be practical. I'd focus on stocking AR/AK accessories, for ammo would be shotgun ammo, emphasis on stocking 22, 223/556, 308, 9mm 380 and 45. These are the hot sellers in my area.
>>31758803
NE Ohio
>>31758811
>>31758842
They are gun shops that have been around for as long as my parents can remember. And there has been maybe 2-3 startups that fell through in the last decade but they focused more on fish and archery, with guns on the side

>>31757490
i'd rather open a all reaching "outdoors" shop that also does guns. Camping supplies, archery, airguns, hunting stuff, etc.

>>31757610
your business model is to compete with walmart.
it's a good thing you asked the underage neets on K for advice before taking the plunge.

>>31759011
>there has been maybe 2-3 startups that fell through in the last decade but they focused more on fish and archery, with guns on the side

So they had better business models than you, and still failed, yet you think you're not going to fail too?

>>31759036
>>31759034
>>31759030
I feel an all encompassing outdoorsmen store is why they failed. Anything you can buy there you can order off Amazon. And while you can order ammo online, if I can keep prices competitive (CPR=online CPR+shipping) while maintaining a profit margin around 10% I will be more than happy. I don't want to do this to become rich. I want to do it to enable people to enjoy their 2a rights and hobbies.

>>31758977
Thanks, it was on the tip of my mind.

>>31758987
if i misspelled anything its cause im pretty hammered and i have a shaky hand from some nerve damage. If not, no.

File: Panzerschrek.jpg (68KB, 597x620px) Image search: [Google]

68KB, 597x620px

I'll speak to what I know of, Anon. Purchasing. Look into distributor groups. Truserv gives you access to anything that Tru-Value has. This includes ammunition. Integrated Supply Network has a little bit of everything in the man category: Tools, knives, ammo (Hornady), Hydraulics, flashlights...check them out too. They do cost money up front and annually to stay in their network. I know of those 2 because they're 2 I use often. I'm positive there are others.
Of course you can also go direct from vendor. That's where I do most of my work (though not with 2A stuff). When you get set up with a vendor:
>Many have minimum order requirements.
While it's usually a dollar value, it can easily be by any other metric: cases, pallets, by weight, whatever.
>Most will also require an initial order.
This order is much more steep and is not to be confused with the minimum order. It can, again, be more than $$. They can require certain categories of items (maybe you want to buy slings from a company, they might also make you buy a few cases of holsters too).
>PREPAID SHIPPING
Many vendors will pay your inbound freight if you order a certain amount. Ask them if they have it, what the requirements are and hit them every time.
>Samples
Whenever you meet with your vendor account rep, ask for samples - whatever you can get. Give them out to your customers, sell them, use them for prizes. This is more under marketing but what the hell.

If you're interested, Anon, reply back and I can go into more detail. My job every day is to buy the things that my company sells. I'll be up all night and willing to help out however I can.

>>31759083
I'm not saying don't do it, but you're totally dependent on supply.
were there other retailers that went out of business when the wholesale supply dried up?
Walmart has huge purchasing power and gets preferential pricing from suppliers.

>>31759083
Eh, ammo is an easily metered consumable that I can forecast need precisely, allowing me to order online. But when I go into an sporting goods store, it's because the frame of my pack just snapped in half, or a mouse ate my tent.

>>31759166
That's all good info to have. Would you happen to have any idea on initial order amounts? Just ballpark? I'm just hoping I can get away with 5-10k per distributer, through multiple distributors so I can offer a wider selection with my startup funds.

File: image.jpg (24KB, 540x387px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 540x387px

A Shooting Range that sold ammo is a safer bet. I have seen LGS go out of business, but iv never seen a range go under. Some ranges are awful and they still make enough to stay open.

open a shooting range. Sell ammo there. People will buy even if it's slightly overpriced for the sake of convenience.
I admit I have no idea on the costs associated with opening and running a shooting range.

>>31759236
This. Seems like overhead would be less on a range than trying to own a gun store. Personally i'd rather own a range.

File: GlockProblemSolver.jpg (254KB, 1241x664px) Image search: [Google]

254KB, 1241x664px

>>31759233
I couldn't even guess. Both below accounts are for companies that mostly work in flashlights. I can't legally say who they are since I'm giving out info like this.
The last account I set up had a $15,000 initial order.
The account before that (which we passed on) only had a $1,500 initial order but they also had 2 stipulations that, if not met would negate our contract:
>We had to sell $10,000 per year
>We had to carry 3 different product lines, 2 of which were tactical. My company doesn't do tactical. We're an industrial reseller.

>>31759284
I live in rural Ohio. Everyone's backyard is a gun range

File: Bubba Assault Glock 203.jpg (95KB, 1024x581px) Image search: [Google]

95KB, 1024x581px

>>31759309
>>31759278
You can buy the best reloading press in the world and write it off as a business expense on your taxes. You get a class 6 and fetch up all of that brass, repack what you can and sell it. The stuff you can't/won't repack, sort it out. Sell what you can on the internet (once fired, calibers you don't stock, rare calibers, etc) and scrap the rest.

The key here is location! Move next to military bases, college towns, oil towns...whatever has testosterone-filled men in their 20's and 30's with disposable income.

Of course, if you don't want to move, scratch that idea.

>>31759278
>look up local gun ranges
>$20 for 20 5.56
>NOPE.jpg

Good thing there's a state-owned open range where you can just show up and shoot.

>>31759284
The overhead is smaller for a range over time. The initial capital however is A LOT more for a range than a retail shop. It's also a lot less liquid so if your business fails you are in some shit.

What about all these shitheads who sell ammo at gunshows.
Maybe you could join their ranks.
Try that first.

>>31758829
Only certain ammo comes in bulk large enough to be out leveraged by a large retail shop.

>>31759399
I don't mean gouge. You can charge a premium and people will pay it. Most people don't plan ahead.

>>31759532
Haha I know. Just sharing my experience and that is to say that people will appreciate a good range to shoot at.

>>31758468
Nigger. Fuck a lawyer. They're all sluts, and relatively hot. Get her to fill out the paperwork.