Indochina War

>>31739282
While it gives context to the complicated political situation that Vietnam was when the yanks put boots on the ground, and gives enormous understanding to the motives and actions of the various factions, it was, as you said, the prelude. And with how popularized the Vietnam war was it was inevitable for it to be overshadowed (Look at how damn intense Korea was by comparison and how it never comes to mind. And that was a conflict with prominent American involvement for America to wax hollywood over, not a french endeavor!). More than that though the Indochina war was decided, and defined by a single battle, and is often viewed as 'a' battle, with the war moniker attached. Still is neat as fuck though, I commend you for making a thread about it!

>>31739282
>gooks dont want france
>rebel against french
>french getting their ass kicked by gooks
>go to US bawling that commie gooks tryna take their colony
>vietnam war

did i miss anything?

>>31739820
Yeah, France surrendering as usual.

>>31739820
Initially the gooks weren't commies, we just ignored them because France and NATO so they went commie and then we had to stick our nose in it

Honestly we should've helped the Vietnamese govt to peacefully seperate from France

>>31739820
A rather flanderized summary of what I learned from school, by Victor non Charlie:
>1945, Japan surrendered the US, withdrew from most of its colonies, including the former French Indochina. Power vacuum formed.
>Communist party rose up in revolution and filled up that vacuum instantly. Declared Independence.
>The butthurt Frenchies, after WWII were like "Hey Gook, now that the Nips got out, can we move back in your house?" And we told 'em "Aw hell naw."
>Butthurt Frenchies being butthurt, decided to bring Grey Cannons and Bla- I mean, North African Legions to teach the former servants a lesson.
>1946, the Legions of seamens fought its way towards Hanoi. The young government decided to collectively "Grab SKS, go innawoods". And they did, for 8 years.
>During that time, we also asked the Red buddies for help, but the Sovs didn't want to anger the US, and the Chinks are either too busy fighting the KMT, the Worst Koreans, or the US. Both of them did sent a few "advisors" though (if "a few" means several companies' worth)
>So we kept staying innawoods. Did some "campaigns" to break out of the jungle, eventually building up a sizeable army to force the French on the defense, and doing what they do best - running backward.
>Flash forward to 1954. We have almost broke out of the woods, the Korean war ended, and the Chinese decided to send some more volunteers (and by "some" I mean several divisions of infantry and artillery).
>Frenchies got blown too hard in the butt, decided to turtle up
>in a valley
>surrounded by a well-endowed army full of huge, fully erected cannons.
Go figure.
>War ended, Frenchies too butthurt to fight, decided to make a truce by cutting the country in half like the Koreans.
>When that plan didn't workout, asked the US to intervene
And the rest is basically Indochina War 2: LSD Boogaloo.

French surrender monkeys get overrun by cong.

That about sums it up.

Just watched jadotville.

If a frog can't win with 20to1 odds can they ever win?

>>31739282
>tfw Imperial Japanese Army companys who still havent surrenderd WW2 joined the rebels.

>>31739282
It doesn't have a great soundtrack

>>31739885
Hey at least the French tried unlike in WWII.

>>31740283
I liked it, gunplay was pretty bad though

fils fortuné starts to play

File: IMG_2111.jpg (151KB, 1024x545px) Image search: [Google]

151KB, 1024x545px

>>31743488
>>31743585
Such aesthetic camo

File: 1424494049735.jpg (180KB, 1072x1500px) Image search: [Google]

180KB, 1072x1500px

>>31739411
Teensy grenades

>>31743592
Fuck off back to the containment thread, camocuck

File: IMG_2106.png (934KB, 738x738px) Image search: [Google]

934KB, 738x738px

>>31743645
>You can't like things

File: 1452035197725.jpg (111KB, 640x464px) Image search: [Google]

111KB, 640x464px

I'll dump what I've got

File: 1452036940809.jpg (35KB, 600x465px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 600x465px

>>31743699

File: 1452048141574.jpg (189KB, 686x489px) Image search: [Google]

189KB, 686x489px

>>31743707

File: 1452049776133.png (1MB, 1140x875px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1140x875px

>>31743708

File: 1452050567120.jpg (38KB, 592x434px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 592x434px

>>31743718
Oops wrong picture

File: 1452050683668.jpg (52KB, 348x434px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 348x434px

>>31743726

File: 1452051523831.jpg (45KB, 600x437px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 600x437px

>>31743732

File: 1452054034309.jpg (123KB, 800x543px) Image search: [Google]

123KB, 800x543px

>>31743743

File: 1452054384399.jpg (64KB, 387x650px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 387x650px

>>31743750

File: street-without-joy-vietnamese-french-indo-china-war-vietnam-war-70cfe1c4b6547470bdedf80f2ffe002c.jpg (36KB, 338x400px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 338x400px

Read this. Street Without Joy. A fantastic primer on what went on when the French were gallanvanting around Indochina.

As a side note, the French, had they had the mobility America did, and kept the lack of the media that they had through the war, could have fared much better.

File: 1452054493247.jpg (95KB, 1280x827px) Image search: [Google]

95KB, 1280x827px

>>31743760

File: 1452057457871.jpg (118KB, 690x700px) Image search: [Google]

118KB, 690x700px

>>31743770

File: 1452058165155.jpg (173KB, 700x700px) Image search: [Google]

173KB, 700x700px

>>31743778

File: 1470519236204-1609746579.jpg (211KB, 699x700px) Image search: [Google]

211KB, 699x700px

>>31743787

>>31743778
which rifle is that?

File: 1470769351406-1012790727.jpg (129KB, 564x780px) Image search: [Google]

129KB, 564x780px

>>31743797

File: 1470769380805-164818486.jpg (146KB, 550x807px) Image search: [Google]

146KB, 550x807px

>>31743808

File: 1470769405577-1348487340.jpg (115KB, 533x800px) Image search: [Google]

115KB, 533x800px

>>31743814

File: 1476075205069264244529.jpg (45KB, 550x512px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 550x512px

>>31743822

File: 1476075261039974373887.jpg (79KB, 617x477px) Image search: [Google]

79KB, 617x477px

>>31743827

File: 1476075295587-1738330942.jpg (199KB, 799x746px) Image search: [Google]

199KB, 799x746px

>>31743837

File: 1476075312317-87839455.jpg (298KB, 1280x1600px) Image search: [Google]

298KB, 1280x1600px

>>31743843

File: 1476075629302-238612628.jpg (111KB, 640x429px) Image search: [Google]

111KB, 640x429px

>>31743850

File: 1718099765_42ce550e44.jpg (141KB, 500x488px) Image search: [Google]

141KB, 500x488px

>>31743860

File: 1c6c030778081614bb73e3de60227db9.jpg (109KB, 736x1139px) Image search: [Google]

109KB, 736x1139px

>>31743865

File: 52f36c302c970ffd084eec4e2669f47cbd6e10f2e678ed8f2a117ffd8fdeaa74_1_1.jpg (81KB, 598x663px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 598x663px

>>31743878

File: indonesia 1946-49.jpg (130KB, 944x485px) Image search: [Google]

130KB, 944x485px

>not knowing about the prequel to the prequel

File: 6a266707c5c5867a1e9d32e83a8b526a46a65d4a3cf0283c7fb33e67e8d8cb50_1_1.jpg (45KB, 590x456px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 590x456px

>>31743887

File: a64f3f515beb6ad56c9cca1d59dcb22e38daf6bb462f74ab03d44f17d09c3ab9_1_1.jpg (27KB, 290x446px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 290x446px

>>31743903

File: CoO5NHzWgAAf5KC.jpg (88KB, 700x700px) Image search: [Google]

88KB, 700x700px

>>31743913

File: cb698c956825c74e45f897d52f36beda.jpg (128KB, 736x1139px) Image search: [Google]

128KB, 736x1139px

>>31743927
Well, that's all I've got

>tfw you will never grease some subhuman gooks with a MAT-49
Feels bad, mon ami

>>31743806
MAS 36 I think.

Didn't they have huge problems with equipment? So they had to use american/japanese/everything that they could get their hands on.

Any good books about the uniforms/equipment they used in this conflict?

>>31744077
All I know is the Americans loaned them some equipment

>>31743054
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_France

-> 360 000 dead, sure France don't try....

File: Fury_MyWarGoneBy_strange_bedfellows.jpg (119KB, 595x500px) Image search: [Google]

119KB, 595x500px

Consult the checklist:
Was America involved in war #?

No? Then it didn't exist.

>>31739282
>Vietnam the prequel
more like part 2 in a trilogy.
and it had brits as bit part bad guys.

>>31745104
Not only the brits. Some of the frog equivalent of green berets swear to this day that they've been in skirmishes with American black ops type people.

>>31743172
c'est pas moi starts to play

>>31743927
> "Metal gear?"

>>31746707
>solid frog

>>31743763

I second this.

A great book.

>>31745092
>No
https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/pentagon/pent5.htm

>>31743645
take your medicine thatguy

>>31743975
wrong

File: CEAM Modele 1950.jpg (11KB, 650x203px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 650x203px

>>31739282
>tfw the French perfected the Stg. 44/45 with captured German scientists to make the CEAM M50
>tfw it was in .30 Carbine too
>tfw Indochina cucked them from adopting it

>>31739282
>"il ne me" du CCR starts playing

>>31748027
>>tfw Indochina cucked them from adopting it

How so?

>>31743750
Now that's a French dude if I've ever seen one.

>>31748011
No that was right, it's a mas 36.

>>31749249
the right answer is a flagpole for a white flag.

>>31749308
right, you're a big guy

>>31748737
No money for new guns.

You have to understand the french army was in such a bad shape their equipment was a mix of french, US, and even german gear.

There was even an outcry from some generals who basically told the US
>you offer weapons to south koreans, south koreans abandon their weapons
>north koreans pick up these weapons, give them to the chinese, who give them to the viets

Also, another hazard encountered by the french : sabotage. More than often stuff wouldn't work, grenades would explode in your hand or be full of papers with communist propaganda written on it, because there were communist syndicalist saboteurs in french arms factories. There is a scene about this in the movie apocalypse now, eleted from the original movie, called the french dinner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L3EXLfgIYw

File: IMG_2184.png (128KB, 408x410px) Image search: [Google]

128KB, 408x410px

>>31749755
God can you imagine being in a situation where you needed a grenade and that pamphlet fell out saying the "union of French women support the Viet Minh".

>>31740000
>Honestly we should've helped the Vietnamese govt to peacefully seperate from France
It takes a lot of balls and the right situation to cuck near-peers like that. We did it in the Suez Crisis, but that doesn't mean it was realistic in regards to the Indochina war.

>>31743898
>fighting in dense jungle
>with bolt-action rifles
fugggg :DDDDDDD

>>31746408
>Some of the frog equivalent of green berets swear to this day that they've been in skirmishes with American black ops type people.
Where and when?

To me the two main battles I take away from French Indochina war were the battle of Na San and Dien Bien Phu.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_N%C3%A0_S%E1%BA%A3n

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Dien_Bien_Phu

You can't understand Dien Bie Phu without the battle of Na San. In Na San the French were highly successful in using the hedgehog defense which explains why any of them thought Dien Bie Phu would be a good idea.

Despite losing Dien Bie Phu the French made the Viet Minh pay for it. What the French didn't know was General Giap was in fact willing to throw all his men into a meatgrinder to win.

File: IMG_1372.jpg (13KB, 209x241px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 209x241px

>>31746408

https://youtu.be/FgIR403MCx4

If you want to see good french film about the battle of Diên Biên Phu, make by veteran of the battle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU-RutTOpgA

How come it wasnt posted yet.

>>31743592
that guy is holding a weird looking gun

>>31749942
And it's not even the first time that communist workers were actively sabotaging stuff.
In 1940 some units had the "joy" of receiving brand new tanks (IIRC the new batch of Renault D2 was particulary affected) breaking after a few kilometers because a war against Germany, then allied to the USSR, was something not accepted by the French communist party.
After the defeat the communists were also among the first to collaborate until Barbarossa after which they completely changed side and started resisting.
Once the war was over they went all "we resisted the most", "party of the 75000 executed" and other kinds of bullshit.


>>31752336
From Schoendoerffer I would also recommend The 317th Platoon.

File: Operations Speciales.jpg (18KB, 162x250px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 162x250px

>>31750160
>>31751460
Among others, Jean Sassi recounted encountering Americans who were helping the Viet Minh in his book Opérations Spéciales.
Dude was a Jedburgh, a British Special Forces unit that pretty much no one knows about today, and even back then. In the same book he wrote that he encountered slightly drunk French SAS in Paris after it was liberated and almost got capped after they asked him to ID himself.

>>31753280
Was it against Vichy France because that I can understand

>>31752461
These films. How many good ones are there with english subs available?

>>31753790
Uhm, what?
You're talking about the SAS or the Americans?

What's there to talk about?

It was embarrassing.

It was a conventional war too, and the 2nd time where a yellow manage to win against a white country (first time Japan > Russia).

File: baionette mat 49 commando lassere.jpg (129KB, 640x645px) Image search: [Google]

129KB, 640x645px

Little known fact: The french secret services paid the local crimelords to keep the Vietminh out of cities, reducing their urban action to virtually nothing by the end of the war. In exchange they engaged themselves a lot in the opium trade (encouraged by the fact that it was a major source of income for the montagniard tribes that had sided with the french). It was the source of the french connection, and during the vietnam war, the CIA, trying to catch the people providing illegal drugs to GIs, was quite surprised to find french agents running the thing.
It devolved into a spy vs spy secret war between the services, with discrete diplomatic tractations.

For those interested, I recommend Par le Sang Versé (by the blood shed) by Bonnecarriere and La Bataille de Dien Bien Phu (the battle of dien bien phu) by Jules Roy, two very good books about the conflict. The first is focused on the foreign legion and a corsican captain on particular.
As movies goes, Dien Bien Phu and The 317th Platoon, by Schoendoerffer (that also made the american documentary the Anderson Platoon during the Vietnam war) are both extremely accurate, since the author was a cameraman for the french army during the war, but the actors aren't fantastic for Dien Bien Phu. Very interesting if you can go past that.

>>31750749
Dien Bien Phu was intended as a FOB from which parols would roam the region and not as a fortress at first. Hence why it wasn't heavily fortified, with no protection against artillery whatsoever. Even though the region didn't allow for the construction of sturdy bunkers, it was, as often with hindsight, a flagrant case of hubris from the french officers. Cmd Piroth, commanding the artillery, even refusing artillery pieces during the construction. He commited suicide by grenade the day after the Vietminh began to shell the place,
When the french realized they were bottled up, it was a bit too late to change anything.

>>31754205
Both it said liberating Paris so I assumed it was ww2 when they were being carried out

>>31749942
As far as I know, this is directly inspired from an anecdote in "par le sang versé".
A legionnaire was pinned down, threw a grenade straight at the gooks pinning him down, and got killed.
Later they went to see the grenade near the now dead gooks, and it had opened and released those leaflets.

Other times, when they identified grenades that had been tampered with to blow up instantly, they would use them as booby traps.

>>31754370
Vichy had no SAS. Those were Free French SAS. Misunderstandings happen.
The part with the Americans was after WW2.

File: 1459037375981.jpg (136KB, 736x536px) Image search: [Google]

136KB, 736x536px

>>31753903
We Were Soldiers is an american movie about the Vietnam war. Only the intro is about the Indochina war. To be precise, the evacuation of Cao Bang by the garrison and the whole population and the RC4 disaster. Which was a bigger disaster than Dien Bien Phu in many aspects.
The white kepis in that scene trigger me.

>>31754370
If I understand clearly:

ww2 - liberation of Paris
Mr. Sassi, French Jedburgh operative (SOE-OSS-BCRA joint operation) being mistaken with a Vichy/german spy by french SAS (3rd or 4th SAS regiment)

indochina war - north vietnam guerilla operations
Mr. Sassis, GCMA officer (Hmong maquis cadre) facing US Vietminh cadres.

>>31754437
It is. If I remember the book correctly, he really was unlucky because he threw two grenades, both filled with leaflets, before charging a MG.

>>31754437
I can kinda see why their people are cynical now

>>31754481
What I meant was that the French colonies were under Vichy control.

>>31754576
Vichy was dissolved in 1944.
So the American operatives were really fighting against actual France.

>>31754622
Am I wording this poorly

>>31754302
>Par le Sang Versé
This books has some wonderful moments.

>"There's a bullet hole exactly in the middle of the plane's floor since we flew over that AA nest, now the copilot can use it as a makeshift bombsight; it makes our air drops much more accurate, it's pretty nice"

>position surrounded by Viet Minh, sentries hear gunfire before seing two injured legionaries arrive, one of them exploding on a minefield.
>"Hey, do you guys have any smokes? We're completely dry on the other side of the town and the radio wasn't working, so we figured we should come ask you directly"
>"Sure, we'll put the tobacco in hollowed rounds and send you a package via mortar"

>>31740979
Seriously? Source on that? I was under the impression that the Vietnamese hated the fucking Japs. Hell, the core of the Viet Cong were formed from the resistance to Japanese occupation. A resistance which was, hilariously, funded and supplied by the US.

>>31744998
>wounded or dead

>>31755018
They turned tail pretty quickly after wwII officially ended. Early vietminh were mainly equipped with jap surplus and some even got training from japs who remained there.

File: IMG_0649.gif (273KB, 320x240px) Image search: [Google]

273KB, 320x240px

>>31754667
>Mortar care packages
That is some ingenuity right there

File: Dien Bien Phu paras.jpg (271KB, 1180x787px) Image search: [Google]

271KB, 1180x787px

>>31739282
It tends to be forgotten even in France itself considering Algeria came just after and overshadowed it.

>>31744077
They had to use a lot of American gear, mostly because sabotage from the commies in France made supplying domestic gear really hard.

File: D96-369[1].jpg (365KB, 1044x700px) Image search: [Google]

365KB, 1044x700px

The french MoD audiovisual service has pretty neat archives:

http://archives.ecpad.fr/tag/fonds-guerre-dindochine/

Don't hesitate to play with tags, some pics aren't filed everywhere.

>>31744411
They were involved directly, if unofficially. IIRC two US Navy pilots died at Dien Bien Phu, killed by AAA during a bombing run.
There's also operation Vulture, a.k.a "If we nuke Dien Bien Phu, then we would annihilate most of the Vietminh forces.

File: TONK-51-82-R51[1].jpg (122KB, 698x700px) Image search: [Google]

122KB, 698x700px

>>31756211
Like the Korea war, no draftee was involved, so most of the population didn't care. The same can be said of the Afganistan war today (and if some war we aren't massively involved in, like Syria, makes it to the news headlines, it must be the end of the world coming)
As one of my neighbour puts it "soldiers are paid to get themselves killed, after all".

File: marcellbigeard1951.jpg (82KB, 439x501px) Image search: [Google]

82KB, 439x501px

>>31739282
Mandatory
Also a lot of the motherfuckers who died in Indochine were Germans from the WWII sent there in French Foreign Legion without asking where they came from as long as they continue the fight against commies.

>>31756329
>There's also operation Vulture, a.k.a "If we nuke Dien Bien Phu, then we would annihilate most of the Vietminh forces.

I've always wondered what would've happened had France developed its A bomb by 1953~54.

File: IMG_2183.gif (2MB, 696x478px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 696x478px

>>31748027

>>31755189
That's still a lot of men

File: Hélie de Saint-Marc Bataille_de_la_Riviere_Noire._1952.jpg (129KB, 709x874px) Image search: [Google]

129KB, 709x874px

>>31757103
Made the best songs too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VirTPfOLpWY

If I remember correctly, Bigeard was commanding colonial troupes back then. On the Légion side there was Hélie de Saint-Marc (who had among his subordinates a certain young le Pen, if my memory doesn't betray me).

>>31743763
Bought it. If it sucks I will start A10 and/or F35 threads in revenge.There WILL be Sprey references and BRRRRRT accolades.

File: Chinese_POW_1979.jpg (68KB, 611x404px) Image search: [Google]

68KB, 611x404px

>A bunch of hut dwellers managed to win wars against China and US
That terrain must've been REALLY shitty to invade

>>31760693
Even the Mongols couldn't quite manage it. Not through direct military means, at least.

>>31754437
>commies rig your grenades
>haha thanks for the trip mine, assholes

>>31748027
hot damn, that would have been an incredible jumpstart to nations adopting intermediate cartridges