How Effective Are Russian Air Defences?

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>>31735708
Probably pretty good. The ruskies have always been better at the whole AA thing since they focused way more on conventional ground forces more than force projection through air power during the cold war

Different doctrines breed different focuses on certain technologies. No weapon system is ultimate but the Russians/Soviets have always put alot of R/D into various different strategic and tatical AA

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>>31735708

Fact of the matter is that Russian air defense systems in Syria have made the idea of enforcing a NFZ in support of Al Qaeda untenable, and have caused the Americans to be caught with their pants down defending what are universally recognized as terrorists everywhere.

Putin is playing 5D chess while the Harvard educated lawyers and Think Tank Jews haven't the slightest idea what to do.

>>31735708
those of us in usa wouldnt know because we dont have a free press that would report truthfully on such things

>>31735794
>The ruskies have always been better at the whole AA thing


According to whom? The russians or the 3rd world governments they sell their shit to that the USA operates against with impunity?

Its a great lie that has been sold.

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>>31735708
They're pretty good, or at least good enough to where we'll have to try. When people talk about Russian AD, they never mention everything else that goes with an S400, like Pantsir, Tor, Buk. All AD is setup in "layers" with long range covering the short and medium range AD and vice versa.
For example if you launch a SEAD strike on an S400 deep into it's territory, it's going to be intercepted by Pantsir, Tor, and EW systems on the way to the S400 and probably won't make it, but if strike against those closer, your planes are in range of the S400 and nearby Buks/Tor and the Pantsir will in theory make short work of your missile

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>>31735935
That being said, most of it is political posturing, we'll probably never see any coordinated attack on Russia and they'll never go open season on our planes.

>>31735877

Most defense analysis experts for one.

Russia focused on AD and area denial basically from 1970 onward. They have problems with the miniaturization which is why they have no particularly small footprint, but theyre extremely potent missiles.

>>31735971
Given the defences are layered, what weaknesses do they even have? Would cruise missile work? The Russians insist they can shoot down cruise missiles so that still won't work, but I find it hard to believe they've created an impenetrable system.

>>31735855
>Le Putin is geopolitical genius maymay
>Implying he is doing anything other than haphazardly trying to re-establish Russia as a world power and failing miserably.

You should lay off the krokodil and vodka, Yevgeny. Stuff rots your brain.

>>31735708
They seem to hit commercial aircraft damn good.

>>31735971

Yet they fail over and over again when compared to western systems which are combat proven.

*most* reputable defense experts are us air force and other western air force lobbyist trying to get bigger budgets. but russian systems have never matched what they claim. and western systems (Patriot, THAAD, SM-2, SM-3, SM-6, MEADs) contiunally prove themselves against the toughest threats, whether real world or heavily publicized tests against systems russia can only dream about.

The fact russia will sell their latest systems to countries with a close relationship with the US tells a lot. they have nothing new.

>>31736044
>Iran Air Flight 655

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>>31735962
Also, I don't think the AD in Syria is set up this way. The Russian AD setup in Syria is more concentrated and focused on area denial and point defense rather than preventing incursions into their airspace.
>>31736026
It's not impenetrable, with a concentrated combined arms attack you could easily open up a corridor.
Also this is all in theory, I doubt Russia has setup such an elaborate defense on foreign soil let alone have enough systems for such a AD complex.

>>31736026

You can get through them. No modern AD grid is 100% effective, and none can be, but they're capable of inflicting huge amounts of attrition on aircraft.

The Russian systems tend to have overlapping fields of fire in addition to being layered, so you have multiple radars pointed at different areas which obviously increases track/detect ability.

Using cruse missiles is usually a good bet, so are things like the ADM-141 TALD in combination with SEAD aircraft.
Problem is when running SEAD you of course expose yourself to ground based intercept by fighters or other AA systems.

Combating AA Systems and combatting that effort is a big multi-mission and multi-layered affair and one I really am not qualified to talk about in a modern sense. If it were the 70s or 80s I could tell you a bunch but its not so I'd just make myself look dumb or give you bad information if I even pretended to know a bunch of finer details.

What I do generally know though is that Russian AA grids are no joke because of their doctrine. The US certaianly has counters in the B-2, F-22 and F-35 and others, but they're not 100% effective.

Well, put it this way: If it wasn't for Russian AD in Syria right now we'd have a NFZ.

Most of the top-tier Russian AD systems since the 1970s have not had much of any real war use.

However, the first gen Russian SAMs in Nam were taken so seriously that America had to invent ECM aerial warfare - something that hasn't been taken seriously lately.

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>>31735855
>These Muslims are the ones that are peaceful

lol, nice try tell that to the victims of Beslan you fuck.

Russian air defense systems are very good. But that doesn't mean they are immune or invulnerable.

With a full-depth integrated air defense network with multiple types of SAMS and ranges, the only way to crack it is to just slowly pick away at it. You poke at the edges with SEAD, special forces, artillery, etc. Once you've opened up some gaps, you go for the deeper targets. Eventually, and probably with a decent number of casualties, you can crack open some lanes of attack and strike deeper targets.

but yes, the meme of the russian S300 and S400 being some sort of godly death machines that instantly make an entire area impenetrable by planes, that's just stupid.

Go fuck around with DCS a bit, play some missions involving those kind of air defense networks, and you start to learn how you can beat it. The biggest thing those kind of SAMs do is a deterrent, and a disruptive measure. As soon as the plane detects the radar lock and launch, it's not THAT hard to evade the missile. You can pretty much just turn around and fly away, or dive to the deck, etc. But the missile still did its job because now you may have jettisoned your bomb load, are out of formation, and have aborted/delayed/disrupeted your strike mission. That's not to say that SAMs aren't deadly. Of course they are. But they CAN be avoided. The issue is that avoiding them achieves the purpose of the SAMs.

also, keep in mind that maintaining that SAM network takes a lot of logistics. It's gonna burn through missiles like crazy.

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>>31735708
>They'll insist they can shoot down any NATO aircraft without fail and that stealth is useless, and that all the Russian pilots in Syria are aces or something that will pwn them all in a dogfight and the larger airforces of Turkey mean nothing because cruisie missiles will rain down form the sky and obliterate every Turkish airfield. Also the reverse will apparently not work because the glorious S400 will also shoot down any American cruise missile without fail. This apparently makes the Russian forces in Syria invincible except vie ground invasion, at which point they'll start making up stupid shit about how the Turkish Army is dogshit and they will never defeat the 5000-man Russian force no matter how many troops they send.

And is all true.

>>31736285
Except that computer sims aren't that accurate at all- especially with regards to the finer details that are much more crucial, and it shows. For example in CMANO you have Growlers jamming AN/MPQ-53/65 or Flap Lids, and both are not able to respond, at all. Both radars are vastly more powerful and sophisticated than the ALQ-99 pods, and not only that their missiles are SAGG- meaning they are TVM but could independently generate their own guidance commands- cut the directional datalink(very, very hard, even for the raw power of the ALQ-99s) and the missile can still home on jam or react to the backscatter from the ground radar like a normal SARH.

>>31736564
I definitely will say those helo pilots are no slouches.

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>>31735708
Russian air defense are complete shit, and anyone who suggest otherwise is a disgusting vatnik.

Russia should be wiped off the map. Only America belongs in this world.

USA! USA! USA!

>>31736028

He's frustrated every Neo-Cohen plan since 2008. Stay mad Cuckservative.

>>31735877
>According to whom?

The people who are spending billions of dollars to defeat these systems?

>>31736044

America has more precise airliner take-down SAM systems:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_800

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

>>31737152
Fuck you, vatnik scum.

I'm sick of you Russian shills shitting up /k/.

>>31737285

Haha, this is going to scramble your little pea-brain even more, I'm not a Russian and I live on the east coast of America. :3

Sleep well, cuckservative scumbag.

>>31737152
>>\pol\

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Their A2/AD Systems are extremely effective. But the USAF and USN has counters. The US could employ dozens of different weapon systems in an attack scenario. This topic has been discussed numerous times. The S-400 isn't some magical machine that can dead any aircraft, its a small part of an IADS. It's about the systems, not the platform. All the US would need to do is create a small rip in AA coverage, and then its done. Theater strikes can commence while SEAD/DEAD aircraft continue hunting.

The fundamental conops is to delaminate, degrade, decapitate the enemy capacity to effect a response before you send in pilots for "in theatre" strike.
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/air-force-aviation/strategic-bombers-escorts-stealth-13433-2/

>>31735708
http://youtu.be/fmE9Jj-rEVs

>>31735708
Russian air defense is generally considered the best around when they have all their different SAMs and properly trained crews, which appears to be the case in Syria. It can be neutralized and destroyed but not quickly nor without losses, which makes attacking an unattractive option given how little the US has invested in what goes on in Syria.

>>31737636
Well lads, I have to say I can NOT FUCKING wait for World War III.

>>31737786
>I can't wait for the destruction of modern society because the US and Russia are fucking idiots that are still saber rattling to this day

>>31737239
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_800

Stop, there is no proof that TWA-800 was a SAM.

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>>31738053

M-hmmm.

And America didn't do radiation tests on terminal patients either.. *wink*

>>31736205
>Lives saved in beslan: 783
>Lives saved in 9/11: 0
KEK

>>31736285
>Go fuck around with DCS
This

Its like a scenario that stands.

>>31736205
The girl on the image has a Tatar flag.

Tatars =/= Chechens, different ethnicity, different relation to religion, different region. Tatars are bro tier, but Chechens are goat fucking cavemen who live only to fight, if possible between mountain clans, if someone forbids it, against this someone.

This is how Putin pacified Chechnya, it returned it to its primitive feudal organisation, and simply made the local chieftain his vassal.

>>31736205
At least it wasnt a kid doing school shooting

>>31735708
Those trucks cause quite a ruckus to NATO whenever they deploy, that says something about them.
And as you heard countless times, the s300 and 400's are never alone, they are long range, protected with mid and short range SAM systems and there are also shilkas driving around with 2 ivans holding Verba's, just to be safe.
The only way to truly test all that, is for Russia to flood Serbia, Bosnia and other disobedient anti western shitholes where NATO can attack without going directly against Russia, Iran or China.

No other way. Fatniks and vatniks can shitpost all they want, they dont know what the fuck they are talking about.

found this channel on youtube, he seems to know what he's talking about. Not that I know shit about the subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f-FdlyqA8s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8KglkOgH-g

>>31740798
the most stupid thing, I`ve seen in a year.

>>31740830
Thats called roachposting

>>31740798
>These captions
I can already tell that this is the purest form of clickbait bullshit regardless of it being pro-American or pro-Russian. Won't even open and give this cancer views.

>>31740798
Good post, causing a good amount of russboo butthurt.

>>31736205
They were collateral damage.

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>>31740798
>he seems to know what he's talking about
Not really.
>>31735708
>They'll insist they can shoot down any NATO aircraft without fail and that stealth is useless, and that all the Russian pilots in Syria are aces or something that will pwn them all in a dogfight and the larger airforces of Turkey mean nothing because cruise missiles will rain down form the sky and obliterate every Turkish airfield.
You see, when US officials do discuss false-flag strikes against Syrian regime, it's Russians duty as paranoid maniacs to make sure that this thing would be impossible. So, they put S400 and say that they will shoot down any "UFO" e.t.c. Context is pretty clear. "Stealth" will not work - it's message to particular people in D.C and Langley to abandon their particular plans to use particular machines for strikes against particular government forces.

>>31740959
>Not really.
enlighten me.

>>31740969
He is taking his numbers from nowhere and his music sucks.

>>31735708
Mate Russia and America are trying to work out how effective their weapons are, what chance do anime autists have of doing it?

>>31735708
>how good these things are
We will have to wait till Cunton takes/steals office and tries to establish that 'no fly zone' over Syria.

The short answer is that we can't be sure.
Both the Favorit and the Triumph has preformed well in live firing excersizes, but that's just practice, even if done as realisticly as possible.

And, while I do favor russian SAMs over American SAMs, the russian outpost is by no means invincible.
Cracking it will be relatively 'easy' for the US, might cost them a few dozen Tomahawks and planes, but definitely doable....the problem is that once they lob the first Tomahawk at these things, the Russian ships will launch their Calibr AshMs at the American ships.
Last year the Calibrs made ther debut getting launched from the Caspian Sea to smack targets in Syria. The russians did that to signal to the yanks that they possess 'Tomahawks' of their own with which to retaliate.

And just as the Tomahawks and planes will eventually go through the multi layered AD zone in Syria and cause dead russian soldiers, so will the russian return fire at american ships, killing sailors, not to mention the pilots who will be shot down...
And basically that's it...the US and Russia are at war.

>>31735708
I like /pol/ as much as the next idiot on this board for when I sperg out or see some shady bullshit happening on the news, but taking all RUSSIA STRONK talk this seriously is ridiculous.

By all indications it's a pretty capable AA system, by all accounts the Russians favor this approach as it's what they've always done; making sure they can lob missiles up there instead of maintaining their air force like the West does.

The thing is that unlike Western forces they've got some pretty specialized equipment for the task and I would guess it holds up pretty well. Going into both Iraq engagements the planners were pretty concerned about what the casualty rates of pilots was going to be, the Russian/ex-sovjet AA is nothing to scoff at.

At the end of the day even their super-sphesial AA can be overwhelmed if you launch enough cruise missiles at it or accept the losses you're going to take. Both parties see this as undesireable though and it's more of a deterance (aside from perhaps trying blowing a Turkish airforce plane out of the sky, although that seems to be out of the picture for now).

>>31737152
Except he hasn't. If anything, he has driven the US and Europe closer and made those nations slacking on their defense shape up again.

Also
>Cuckservative
Nice memes.

>>31740959
>False flags against Syrian regime

Do you actually think that the pictures of F-18s painted up as Russian aircraft are for a false flag?

>>31741009
This.

Here's a summary of vatnik logic :

A has a fighting chance against B.
A is russian.
A is therefore invincible and B stands no chance against it.

It always comes up for some reason. Mention EW capabilities of the F-35, they'll mention that the S-400 'is impossible to jam'. They can actually detect stealth more effectively means that 'stealth is obsolete'. They have long range hyper-sonic missiles that can maneuver means that 'all US ships will magically get blown up and no counter-measures can work'.

It's always the same fucking garbage, and it's just ridiculously basic and pathetic propaganda so that vatniks don't have to admit that they aren't anywhere close to the might they had during the Soviet Union. I can understand some nationalistic bias but this is just stupid.

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>>31741760
No, I talking about
>One proposed way to get around the White House’s long-standing objection to striking the Assad regime without a U.N. Security Council resolution would be to carry out the strikes covertly and without public acknowledgment, the official said.
Opposite force's planes are most sexy planes in US arsenal, btw.

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They need to paint all planes in that camo.

>>31742229
>>31742353
do you have were they painted it like Su34?

>>31742229
Striking covertly is not the same as a false flag.

>>31742229
lol, class A retard. He says nothing about false flag. Unless the Israeli strike to take out the Syrian reactor was a false flag as well.
learn to read. And maybe 50 steps down the road you'll learn to think.

>>31735708
>How Effective Are Russian Air Defences?
Not even a bit.

A F-22 (or even a 35) could sneak in, run circles around the Kremlin, humiliate every MIG coming it's way and come back home for dinner without even a scratch on the paint

>>31736063
>contiunally prove themselves against the toughest threats

Remember Kids, toughest threats = Enfields, AKs and mud huts. No air defense to speak of. And when American equipment (muh monkey models) actually face even recent equipment (< 40 years old), things don't always go well (Abrams, Turkish AH-1W)

S-100 and slav took down the most advanced stealth plane we had.

This isn't burger bait, this is "take everything here with a grain of salt." Some people here have self-esteem based on the success of equipment.

>>31735855
>Hating dogs
Guess thats why we have cops shooting them.

Anyways reminded me of this black muslim who saw someone walking a dog while bike riding. She immediately got off her bike abd started whimpering and trying to back away (while holding the bike perpendicular to her). I thought she had a phobia, is it really a religious thing?

>>31736125
>Not qualified
How so? No knowledge on the subject, or are you speciallllle?

>>31736097
is that... the interior of a SSBN being refitted to carry non-SLBMs?

>>31736285
Can anyone explain to me how lock on detection works? I alway thought it was a movie gimmick

>>31738268
God damn i love the new BUK-M3+s, vastly improved radars and computers, 2x the firepower, same system footprint.

>>31741760
The whole painted plane isnt a new thing, its part of training, aggressor squads and such

Why exactly is /k filled with anti Putin anti Russian rhetoric?

Like these cucks call people who like Putin
Putin worshipers or Putin dickriders

Yet they are the ones who are EU and NATO dickriders.

The US along with Turkey (obviously) and some EU countries literally arm ISIS
Which are the people you illiterates seem to be supporting.

Also the Russian AA systems are great and Russian forces in Syria aren't invincible but they are really fucking strong right now.

>>31743627
THAT
Is the stupidest thing i've heard in months

>>31735708

Considering that they've only managed to hit airliners at this point, there is not much practical evidence that points to the potency of modern Russian IADS. However, they have always put much more effort into their air defenses and SAM technology than the U.S. has, so I think it's a safe bet that they could successfully shoot down any 4th-generation combat aircraft.

However, we don't have enough information to accurately predict whether or not they can successfully target F-22s or F-35s. The maximum performance thresholds of all weapon systems in this scenario are unknown quantities.

As a soldier in the USAR, even I'm inclined to admit that the Russians may have the upper hand in this fight. My understanding is that the USAF has been slacking off with its SEAD doctrine and training because they're too enamored with the fantasy of massed air-to-air combat.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>>31743983
He's talking about air defenses, you mong.

Also
>F-117 shootdown
The result of luck and cleverness on the part of the Serbs, not any capability of the missile or weakness of the aircraft. Kys.

>>31744173
I know that. I was responding to the anon talking about false flags and how pictures of aggressor aircraft were being used as evidence for that.

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>>31744212

SO they arm ISIS, so what? bunch of evil camel fuckers that we can mop up later once Asad is gone, the Ruski naval base is gone and the LNG pipeline is underway to bypass Russian control of Europes LNG supply.

>>31744225
Not really. The F-35 was designed from the get go to face these sorts of IADS and win.

>>31744346
If you are being serious than this confirms my statement on why these pro NATO, Pro EU and Pro US government people are total cucks.

I think you're baiting but if you're serious just stop it RIGHT NOW.

Do you ACTUALLY think Assad should be gone. If you do theres no hope for you anymore.

>>31744108
Missiles that use radar to track and seek a plane have to be bombarding the plane with radiowaves to 'see' it. The radar (technically a different device but still a radar) of the plane can detect this, because that is what radars do.

Threadly reminder that yes, s300 and similar combined IADs can lock and shoot at f35s or other similar stealthed targets. They can, hypothetically speaking, turn on their x-band radars and pump enough electricity through them that they could achieve weapons grade locks at some range. This does not, however, mean that said stealth targets(and anything with a radar, really) won't be able to see, react and engage the lighthouse of electromagnetic radiation this action creates from farther away. This is, as you all know by now, based on the law of inverse returns, something we have been over several dozens of times. In essence, the entire idea, focus and point of stealth aircraft programs.

No, they can't achieve weapons grade locks at standoff range with anything but an overpowered lighthouse of an x-band radar array.

>>31744779
So that super sized USN X-band radar built onto a floating semi-submerged platform could spot & provide targeting data against stealth aircraft??

Can anyone verify the super-spooky "directed energy" weapon the ruskis say they built recently?

>>31738268
Why would be shoot down an airliner? What's the end game?

>>31745207
W-what? If such a thing existed maybe? Are you being serious and I'm being retarded?

Am I being memed?

>>31745251
Well, there is a couple oddities that were filmed a while back (thanks Russians that upload their dashboard cameras to the Internet) in Siberia.

Ones was a bright blue flash behind a mountain that caused a cities lights to go out (near flash) or flickered for a bit before stabilizing (farther from flash).

Most believe it was the Russians testing a non-nuke pumped EMP device at ground level.

It was shown on that TV show "NASA's unexplained files".. which is a silly name because they keep explaining everything.

>>31745310

Welcome to /k/.. stay for a bit and learn some shit.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea-based_X-band_Radar

>>31745327
Oh that thing. Well yeah, that could hypothetically do the job but you have to consider the radar horizon, even with something that massive.

>>31743264
>>31742706
It doesn't matter at all, name it as you want, point is still the same. They want to strike Assad in secret - they lost that ability.

>>31745327
>1,800 tonne (4,000,000 pound) X band radar antenna.

>radar antenna itself is described as being 384m2 (4,130sqft). It has a large number of solid-state transmit-receive modules mounted on an octagonal flat base which can move ±270 degrees in azimuth and 0 to 85 degrees elevation.

>There are currently 22,000 modules installed on the base. Each module has one transmit-receive feed horn and one auxiliary receive feed horn for a second polarization, totaling 44,000 feedhorns.

>The base is roughly 2/3 populated, with space for installation of additional modules.

>The array requires over a megawatt of power.

>The radar has been described by Lt. Gen Trey Obering (director of MDA) as being able to track an object the size of a baseball over San Francisco in California from Chesapeake Bay in Virginia, approximately 2,900 miles (4,700km) away.


HOLY FUG

>>31735794
This. The only Western SAM systems that can realistically out-class Russia's land-based SAM's are the AEGIS/Standard and the SAMPSON/Aster.

They honestly leave our land-based systems in the dust, but then again, our sea-based air control systems run circles around theirs.

Different strategies breed different systems.

>>31744695
THANK YOU BASED BUK

>>31745601
Our sea based systems are made to keep our floating airfields intact long enough for Naval Air wings to launch and begin missions. They do an extremely good job of that. The aircraft carrier is only important because of the airwings aboard.

Russia knows they cannot match american air power and so they are focused on denying that airapace to NATO. Which is why their air defwnse systems are so heavily layered. Their doctrine is the defense. So they, aw a consequence have to defend the air defence and lock down the air space.

>>31744695
THANK YOU BASED BUK

>>31735708
Whats that behind the S400? Pantsir?

>>31745817
Yes. HARMs will not shoot down themselves.

>>31745817
>>31745860
Why park it so close though?

Shouldn't that stuff be more dispersed?

(or is this an Arms Expo Display?)

>>31735935
There may not be detection of air attack due to Suter.

>>31744695
THANK YOU BASED BUK

Effective enough to make USA think twice in Syria. That's all you need to know.

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>>31744292

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_F-117A_shootdown

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_U-2_incident

>"They've only managed to hit airliners at this point"

>>31746444
Russia could have deployed slingshots and it would have deterred the US just as well.
Political hot air is one thing but only retards from /pol/ would seriously think the US would risk a shooting war with russia over a bullshit mud patch like Syria.

>>31745593
Except it would have to be 20 miles above California to see it. So, another welfare check for Hillary's defense industry and another waste of taxpayer dollars.

>>31744212
Because russia is filled with subhuman gremlins that are being ruled by an insecure manlet?
If you want mindless troglodytes swallowing kremls bullshit as gospel, head over to /pol/. Here on /k/ people don't like when russia sends over paid shills to suck putins dick and shitpost any criticism of russia to oblivion.

>>31746657
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_F-117A_shootdown
Ah yes, the jet that was flying the same path repeatedly for a long period of time was shot down. You caught him.

>>31746869
>Justifications
Just let it go.

>>31746956
>Justifications
Ummm, except they tracked down the guy who was manning the SAM site and he basically outright explained in fine detail how it happened.

>Post observers outside known NATO airbases
>Observers track what planes are taking off/landing and which direction they head out in
>After a LOT of observation, figure out that one particular F-117 flies the exact same route every night
>Set up SAM battery directly in the F-117's regular flight path and wait
>Manage to get a radar lock when the F-117 is literally right on top of the SAM with its bomb bay doors open
>Fire multiple missiles, only of which one hits

It was a combination of meticulous preparation on the part of the SAM crew and extreme complacency on the part of the USAF.

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>>31746869

>Muh superior ayylien american ultrasecret stealth aircraft a got BTFO by a SAM system from the 60s.

>When Russia BTFOs US equipment, it's just luck. Oh we didn't take precautions. Blah blah blah. When US equipment is used to score kills against Russian stuff, "Damn commies should just stick to being peasants and building tractors. Russian tech is shit. Putin ! Hurr durr. "

>>31737203
And they defeat them.

>oh lol a billion is a lot

Remember last time you idiots got into a spending war with us?

>>31746998
Yeah. Just deal with it and let it go, mate.

>>31745261
To kill Pam Lychner.

It was yet another Clinton led plot to kill those who had something that could land them in jail.

>>31747058
>Just let me post my memes in peace
Ok

>>31747021
>buying into russian propaganda, ever

>>31747021
The way international airspace works means that aircraft has to take predictable paths. It's how the swedes managed to lock onto the sr-71 and how other exactly when and where to intercept us aircraft. Not that it matters anyway.

File: Denial State - Clean.png (198KB, 801x304px) Image search: [Google]

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>>31744292
>>31746811
>>31746869
>>31746998
>>31747081
>>31744344

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_combat_losses_of_United_States_military_aircraft_since_the_Vietnam_War

>>31747170
Not an argument.

>>31746956
Except it's retarded to think, or imply, that a fluke is the standard of American stealth, or that it proves that Russian systems are able to accurately and consistently track and engage stealth aircraft.


Unless you are telling him that saying exactly that, is a lost cause and he should drop the matter. In which case, carry on.

>>31744695
>BUK
>Not an Su-25

TRIGGERED!

>>31746956
>>31747021
>>31747170
The stealth loss was just a really smart move
under normal circumstances wouldn't have shot it down but the serbs predicted it and shot it down
A success of a commander, not the technology

>>31747170
>we shot down a plane you designed in the 70s!

Good job slav you get a participation trophy!

>>31747292
It wouldn't have even been shot down that night if the bomb bay doors weren't open.

>>31746998
You left off that he violated his own procedures by leaving his radar on longer than normal and firing an additional missile using the information that due to inclement weather grounding some flights the F-117 was flying without SEAD escort. It's less that an antiquated system was able to effortlessly defeat modern American equipment, it's that a commander was able to get extensive intel and collate effectively to maximize his chances to hit while minimizing his risk.

>>31747352
I did. It was sheer luck that the bomb bay doors were open when they went for that out of doctrine third lock.

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>>31747194
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_combat_losses_of_United_States_military_aircraft_since_the_Vietnam_War

Almost 20 shot down by SAMs between 1980 and 2000.

>Not an argument.

>>31737203

To be fair here, of course they say they're great and all powerful etc because their funding is entirely based on the fact that the evil empire is going to kill us all unless you give me more money to develop countermeasures.

When's the last time a military or analyst or expert was all "yeah, nah, we don't need any more military funding and our current equipment is peachy and everything is great"

>>31744695

THANK YOU BASED BUK

also fuck you

>>31747372
Because it isn't an argument. You just plopped in with a quote wall, shitty image, and a wikipedia article.

If you didn't reply to the F-117 posts you'd be in a stronger position, or do you want to tell me how almost 20 jets being shot down has anything to do with the F-117?

Dante Must Die Mode: You have to reply with more than 10 words and an image.

>>31736028
CTR detected
>cuck faggot

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>>31747298

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>>31747411

Claim : Russian SAM systems suck.

Proof contradicting the claim : Numerous US aircraft have been shot down using Russian SAM systems, as given in the link.

Rebuttal : HURR DURR.

>>31744039
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2229719/Apology-over-offensive-puppy-police-advert-after-Muslim-complaints.html
Yes?

>>31747523
>Claim : Russian SAM systems suck.
See, this is where you're /v/ mannerisms fall apart. If you read the F-117 posts that you quoted, you'll realize that when I said "you'd be in a stronger position" I mean that. I implore you to tell me where in the explanation of the circumstances that led to the F-117 being shot down that I claimed Russian SAM systems suck.

The SAM system that shot down the F-117 was pure luck after a long period of observation, and was out of doctrine when the shots were fired.

Please stop replying to me with your middle school discourse. You don't have a firm grasp on critical thinking nor rational arguments, as evidenced by your need to paint your opponent as a caricature in order to "refute" them.

>>31745319
So Russian power grid failed?

>>31747372
20 of them is barely anything compared to soviet losses

>>31747577

Your claim of "Not an argument" implies that the capability of the system had no significance in bringing down the F117. That is unequivocally false and disingenuous.

The tactics that the commander employed are not "against the rules". Those are valid combat tactics. Let's not be naive to assume that every scenario is described by some doctrine. Adaptation of tactics with the equipment available is a trait of an intelligent commander.

To suggest that it was purely luck or skill is akin to saying that a driver won the race with a vehicle having no wheels. That is simply not true.

The fact remains that a SAM system from the 1960s was successfully used to bring down a so-called superior combat aircraft.

All I see in this thread is complacency and a false sense of infallibility. Underestimating one's adversary is a sign of arrogance.

I have no need to caricature, I agree. Lay out your arguments in a logically consistent manner before you accuse others of not "having a firm grasp on critical thinking nor rational arguments".

>>31748036
i know its to late and you went full retard
but there is a god damn wikipedia article in depth explaining that situation

next time go and do some basic research before fucking spazing out like some potato

>>31748083

>Let's still ignore that an SA-3 shot down an F117.
>Ad hominem.

Great job. Bravo !

>>31747577
>and was out of doctrine when the shots were fired.
What doctrine did Serbian SAM operators follow at this time? Would it have made more sense to adhere to this doctrine under the circumstances during the shootdown? Would it have led to a more successful mission?

I've just been lurking but I'm not fully understanding your point with this particular line.

>>31748184
Wait a sec I think I got confused, I believe you're saying that the F-117 was failing to follow doctrine. Autism acting up again.

>>31747523
More like
>Numerous targets around the world, defended by Russian equipment, have been destroyed.

>>31735794
>No weapon system is ultimate but the Russians/Soviets have always put alot of R/D into various different strategic and tatical AA
>various different strategic and tatical AA
>strategic... AA
What is strategic AA? Is it when your AA weapon has so much range it reaches into the enemy's airspace and starts swatting down airliners?

>>31748197
>>31748184
In this case the Serbians and NATO weren't following doctrine. The Serbians had their radars illuminated longer than doctrine dictated and attempted a third launch instead of relocating after two. The F-117 was reusing flight paths and flying without escort.

The worst part about the arguments surrounding the F-117 shootdown is that they completely ignore the fact that Zoltan Dani should be taught in military academies as the kind of leader field commanders should strive to be.

>>31740959
>stealth will not work
You're adorable.

SLAVA!
https://youtu.be/FoM5a6v6410 [Embed]

how come the only thing russians are good at is building weapons?

>>31748272
>What is strategic AA? Is it when your AA weapon has so much range it reaches into the enemy's airspace and starts swatting down airliners?
so how it is now in Poland?

>>31748361
You have no idea about context, I see. It's about Oct. 6 briefing of Russian Ministry of defence.

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>>31744695

THANK YOU BASED BUK

>>31745593
https://dizzib.github.io/earth/curve-calc/?d0=2802&h0=150&unit=imperial

2,802 miles across the US

Height of that monstrosity is probably 150 to 200 feet.