Why do the Germans custruct so much better rifles than the US?

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>>31720212
What's that picture of dogshit have to do with /k/ anon? Anyway, everyone knows KAC a best.

I like the bren gun

Because they don't believe in affordability

>>31720236
Indeed good guns but ugly as hell

The tripod looks like the open legs of ur mom

>>31720236
Stop being in denial. You're on suicide watch because KAC got replaced by HK for the government DMR contract. Stop shilling KAC in every thread with HK, just fuck off.

HK has gone to complete shit since the 90s.

Much better options in America now like KAC.

I didn't know KAC was german desu senpai

>>31720244
bren is nice tho imo

but way to small mag for my gusto

>>31720212
>meanwhile the AR pattern rifle continues to be chosen by first world countries and special forces
>so many in the middle east its about to become the new ak

>>31720362
The csass is a small contract, and doesn't replace the sass. Do you even know how to read?

KAC is still on suicide watch though

>>31720212
Europeans aren't concerned with making a profit above all, and manufacturing something as cheaply as possible

>>31720422 (you)
>>31720363 (you)
>>31720236 (you)

>>31720247

What are you talking about? The G3 is one of the cheapest battle rifles ever made

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>>31721304
hahahahahhahahahahahahhaahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaa

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>>31720212

>>31721396

Only expensive due to FN only exporting small batches at a time to the U.S. The real cost of the SCAR is like 750 bucks

>>31721379
Clones not made by H&K are the cheap rifles you're talking about. Ptr industries is an American company and CETME is Spanish.

>>31721491

AWB aside, the G3 is hilariously cheap to make. Just because they are expensive in the US due to legislation doesn't mean they are expensive anywhere else

>>31721433
in what, belgium? where civilians can't own them?

>>31721508

to the military and law enforcement. Even the SCAR is sold at 1500 to dealers, everything else you pay is markup

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>>31720236
Trey Knight pls go.

>>31721491
G3s are laughably cheap due to their turd world tier construction methods. That's why they're all over the globe right now.

You've mistaken an artificial supply constraint and the accompanying increase in cost for consumers with quality. A classic H&K owner trait desu.

Worse than SCARfags with their extruded aluminum abortions that the US taxpayers paid the R&D cost for.

>>31721546

Most military rifles are made with cheapness in mind. even the high end of rifles go for 800 bucks. Custom stuff made for specific units in mind can get expensive though

>>31721546
They're good rifle, just not expensive

>>31720212
>Front heavy
>Little modularity
>Fucking awful ergos

They're accurate and they run like typewriters. Anything beyond that and they just dont compete.

>>31721527
>heavier
>less accurate
>more expensive
yeah totally btfo by the brilliant people in the Army

>>31722244

Why is it that anyone who mentions "modularity" is usually full of shit?

Manufacturers in Europe make guns for government outlets, not the civilian market.

The Germans should have gone to the moon first.

>>31722339
Yeah, fuck the ability to aim your rifle using a fucking laser invisible to the naked eye.

What a retarded idea totally not useable in modern urban combat. If it were up to people like you the M1 would be the go-to modern service rifle.

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>>31722490

>muh rails
>muh AR

ok buddy

>>31722512
I'm not saying the AR is the end all be all. It's just better than clunky, cold war era rifles.

>mfw you didnt address my point

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>>31722534

>all this backtracking

What was that about "modularity" again?

>>31722572
>weight
>10 gorrillion pounds

>>31722572
>2000lbs
>7.62 that's not a beltfed
It's the current year anon.

>>31721524
>Even the SCAR is sold at 1500 to dealers
Maybe if you are buying 30,000 of them at a time but your average LGS pays $2300-$2600 depending on quantity

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>>31722302
>heavier
contract specifically asks for a rifle that is lighter than the current SASS
>less accurate
Proofs
>more expensive
The M110 complete with full deployment kit is 15K iirc while the HK CSASS comes in at slightly above 12K.

>>31722586

What does weight have to do with modularity?

Oh wait, fucking nothing

>own HK94 clone
>own HK93 clone
>own HK91 clone
>own HK USP 9c
>own HK Mk.23 (Waiting for it to ship)
>own a pile of HK 416 parts
HK firearms are just so refreshing, my next one will probably be a P7M8

>>31722614
in order to achieve similar modularity to an AR, you have to sacrifice weight. Im guessing you've only ever shot rifles from a bench in your life.
>>31722602
yeah it did specify that, couldnt deliver.
>accuracy
from HK's website it specifies a 1.5 MOA rifle. people all over the internet has reported sub half moa rifles from KAC
>expensive
and it costs way less than 12k per unit to maintain current existing m110 rifles

>>31722658
>in order to achieve similar modularity to an AR,

I now realize you don't even know what modularity even means

>you have to sacrifice weight

For what purpose? Are you adding on a shorter barrel? replacing the hand guards? adding a folding or collapsible stock? A BR is heavier than an assault rifle no one is arguing that but you seem to have no idea about how the G3 comes together in the first place


>Im guessing you've only ever shot rifles from a bench in your life.

I know more about carrying guns and gear innawoods than you ever will. Go hang yourself off the nearest tree

>>31722658

According to the trials they ran, the G28 held a 1.5moa over 10 rounds. I'm going to hazard a guess the KAC is not sub-.5 moa over 10 rounds.

>>31723152

1.5 MOA is perfectly acceptable for a semi-auto rifle firing ammo that is not just perfectly suited for it (a luxury civilians can afford) A no shit guaranteed .5 MOA rifle over multiple rounds and you are entering PSG-1 territory

>>31720212
NOT ANYMORE now that they are fucking making rifles that look like ar15!!!!!!

america is a fucking cancer and you motherfuckers just wait until the chinese invade I will help them fuck this nation

>>31723008
>modularity
>the ability to adapt a weapon to the mission at hand
A lot of the time this means what kind of shit you can attach to your rifle whether that be optics, NV, Lasers, grips, stocks, light, barrels, ect. A lot of the time this means you need to use rails. Adding rails to the G3 means increasing the weight on an already overweight rifle. Compared to the AR where many rail system keep the rifle relatively light weight. Changing barrels is even further difficult than compared to the AR. Why am I explaining this? Because you are the only person so retarded to ever argue the G3 is more modular than the AR.
>I know more about carrying guns and gear innawoods than you ever will.
this is actually adorable. like it made me smile how angry you are.

>>31723427

>Modularity is the degree to which a system's components may be separated and recombined.

confirmed for not knowing what modularity means

>>31723427
>>31723496

Oh goody, another semantics argument.

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>>31723496
hey fucktard, guess what that means in the context of a military rifle?

>>31723903

Which military rifle? Have you ever been in the military? You use what is issued to you not your personal preference of tacticool bullshit.

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>>31723939
>clearly ignoring the rifles being discussed in context
wew lad, better move those goal posts a little more. Have you ever been in the military? theres quite a few options the average infantryman has at his disposal for his M4.
>tacticool
I forget, NV/PEQ's/Optics/grips are all useless and have never improved functionality.

>>31724002

Goal posts are never moved. You are trying to compared 2 rifles of different classes that were designed with a very different war scenario in mind

And yes, I can tell you have never been in the military the way you discuss soldiers having "options"

>>31720212
The G36 is an AR-18 copy, what're you talking about?

>>31721433
What the fuck are you on about mate?
FN makes most of that rifle right here in the states

>>31720212
>add 2 pounds to a rifle design that was intended to be lightweight
>with literally no added benefit
>MUH H&K DOES IT AGAIN!!1
3/10 made me reply

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>>31724044
Admittedly a POG but regardless my point stands. What the armorer is available to issue you varies by MOS//Mission/Rank and whats available to the unit. I literally just asked an armorer this.
The g3 was designed to be the standard issue rifle of an armed forces.
The M4 was designed to be the standard issue rifle of an armed forces.
Totally apples to oranges right?

>>31720212
my rifle didn't have problems shooting in Afghanistan. that's weird. I guess...asthetics =/= function

<3 US military

>>31723189
and onto the fema camp list you go. When the Chinese invade ill be by to pick you up. ^_~

>>31724147

>The M4 was designed to be the standard issue rifle of an armed forces.

Actually the M4 was designed for specialist troops but was eventually phased in as the standard issue rifle

>The g3 was designed to be the standard issue rifle of an armed forces.

With a very different war scenario in mind

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>>31724191
maybe it was phased in as the standard issue rifle because the AR platform is more modular? maybe?

>>31724223
>>31724223

More modular compared to what in the U.S. arsenal? The A4?

And this point you are just intentionally being retarded

M4>G3 l everyone knows it. Some people just like being gun hipsters.

>>31724291

for what? close combat? long distance shooting? arctic warfare, paratroopers and armored vehicle dismounts?

>>31724312
As a service rifle

>>31724312
literally every single one except the 2nd. even then I'd take the M4 for sub 400m shooting

>>31724332

for what? for who? under what scenario would this rifle have to be constructed?

>>31724312
Arctic fucking warfare. Your going to bring up arctic warfare. I understand the need to reach but Jesus christ

>>31724291
But muh bush war

>>31724291
>>31724312
to both of you.

just like evolution. Generalist best all-arounder and most adaptable to the situation.

Its also pretty damn subjective when we are talking guns, because when you say G3, there is one manufacturer for G3s, and when you say m4 everyone's mind jumps to any fucking m4 format that you can think of.

even amongst the various manufacturers there is variety in quality and fit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_carbine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_carbine#Manufacturers

Also the m4 is a fucking carbine, the G3 is a fucking battle rifle. the G3K is a carbine.

reeee

hey

REEEEEEE

hey

im gonna walk away now

*Distant reee*

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>>31724345

>implying Germany, Russia and Scandinavia don't get cold in winter
>implying guns don't freeze up in the cold

literally confirmed yourself as noguns

>>31724343
the standard requirements for a service rifle are pretty universal across the board save for a few specifics by region. there is a reason why you no longer see the G3 in standard service by nations who can afford better and why the M4 still gets issued internationally

>>31724393
Implying that the m4 has any problem whatsoever in cold conditions.

>>31724405
it has them in sub-zero conditions but definitely not more than the G3
>>31724390
>Also the m4 is a fucking carbine, the G3 is a fucking battle rifle. the G3K is a carbine.
And guess what? We figured out we dont necessarily need to issue full sized rifles to everyone

>>31720212
This post would at least make sense if it was shit posting about the 416, but the g3 is a hunk of shit compared to anything modern

>>31724395

The M4 is a poorfag rifle that the U.S. is stuck with because its entire military industrial complex revolves around it. Even the one European nation that uses the AR system as a main weapon buys them from Canada. Most nations who have upgraded their rifles bought other platforms altogether

>>31724427
you made no point. the point made was that there was a comparison between the g3 and m4. they aren't the same class of gun. the G3K is. go back and read instead of skim. ya big dingus.

>>31724503
lol nigger, AKs are poorfag rifles. Look at the detail of the machining on an AR bolt versus an AK bolt then come back to me. get better bait

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>>31725524

>all that machining for an unreliable jamomatic that has to be babied or else it fails

>>31722458
They would have, if they hadn't detoured to France. Many of the scientists who got US there were stolen Germans. The guys who built the v2+ rockets and shit.

Germany is known for damn near autistic mechanical engineering. As a consequence a lot of their firearms design is very sophisticated and revolutionary.

Not all of it is good though. Sometimes it's a little too intricate (G11) and there can be debate between the merits of any one gun they make and either a US or Soviet equivalent. In fact a lot of their designs are copies or refinements of US or other western designs.

>>31723893
Yes! Those are the ones that everyone always learns a lot from without derailing the original discussion!

Semantiiiics!~

>>31720212

They don't.

G3 derivatives are old and too bulky, famalam

>>31724386
That was for the most part FALs

Makes me sad that germany's military industry got wiped out after the war with the exception of small arms. I can only imagine the amazing combat aircraft and other military vehicles they would have designed.

>>31721396

>expensive on the secondary market
>hurrr FN a dumb

No anon, you a dumb. When they resume imports, prices will fall.

>>31720236
What gun is the bottom one?

>>31721508
Actually we can, it just takes some more paperwork.
Checking my gun dealer's website they're €5000 though, but he's known to overprice his ware.

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>>31729258
KAC Stoner LMG

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>G3s are heavy

>>31724312
It puts holes in body at 500m and its godsend when doing mout since its not snagging and hitting on every little object or wall and you can get closer to each room without having your muzzle showing plus its lighter so you can keep it up without your arms getting as tired

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>>31720212
it's kinda pointless to ask, once you understand that everything in the US is average at best

>>31720212
Why can't the OP construct a proper fucking sentence?

>>31724072
Incorrectamundo. FN makes the military rifles here in the states. Civilian rifles are still imported from Belgium for dat sweet, sweet importation markup

>>31722339

That post wasn't very modular, anon.

>>31731790
What is 922r anon?

>>31725524
Nobody ever mentionend the AK...