What do you think are the best military firearms?

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>>31615894

>>31615894
The ones that work and don't jam?

>>31615894
Depends how you wanna describe best.

But, just to stir the pot a little, I'll say the AKM/AK100 series.

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>>31615894
You posted them.

>>31615894
AK-74M

>>31615894
Probably not the SCAR considering it keeps losing to AR patterned rifles in practically every evaluation.

>>31615904
nah. For a guerrilla army maybe, but for a rank and file military the AK doesn't have any advantages over the AR or SCAR.

>>31615997

Easy to use, maintain and cost effective

Most militaries that aren't the united states have these things called budgets

>>31615965
>the army never rigs tests to prevent spending money that they don't want to spend

>>31615965

Except for the 12 other submissions that failed the SOCOM trials including Colt and Knight's Armament.

Ruger 10/22, archangel stock

>>31616015
The AR is just as cheap to produce as the AK. All the maintenance a good AR needs is some lube on the BCG rails, and an AR really isn't that much more complex to operate compared to an AK.

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>>31616033
>The AR is just as cheap to produce as the AK
military AK-103 cost only 100-200 dolars per unit
military M-4 cost about 500 dolars per unit

you was thinking about civilian gun, which are unrelated to service weapon

>>31616018
>>31616016
We're not talking about one failure here like the fact that the 16 was canned for being no better than an M4 and JSOC consistently siding with the 416 over the 16, we're talking about the consistent failure that the SCAR has been globally for a while now, boys.
>Loses to HK in Norway
>Loses to LMT in UK
>Loses to Diemaco and HK in Netherlands
>Loses to LMT in New Zealand
>Loses to HK in IAR contract
>Loses to HK in CSASS contract
>Loses to HK in France
AR pattern has consistently been chosen over the SCAR by actual OPERATORS for years now, and FNH has been losing basically every significant/major contract contract for the SCAR or a SCAR based variant for a while now.

>>31616117

The M4 is alot more finicky that the AK not to mention that CLP is a horrible lubricant

>>31616123
scarfags
[X] btfo
[] not btfo
>m-muh folding stock tho!

>>31616033
>The AR is just as cheap to produce as the AK.
Depends on the AR, i guess. Besides, i know only one state who was dumb enough to arm themselves with actual AR, reasonable people prefer M4s and M16s.

>>31616123

First your post makes the assumption that all contract awards are based entirely on the merit of the weapon itself. That we all know to be patently false. Politics and pricing plays a much greater role in military/government procurement - So long as the requirements box gets checked it's all about who's lobbyist can write the bigger check.

Second, the reason the Mk16 was defunded was not "for being no better than an M4" but rather due to the budget cuts and increased spending demands placed on SOCOM at the time partnered with the evolving Common Receiver capability of the Mk17 to provide 5.56mm chambering.

Now then, to address all of your >implying

Norway - I've never seen any documentation the SCAR was a contender for that country
UK - The SCAR-H is not a DMR but was thrown in the competition anyway. The MK 20/H-PR have won contracts since i.e. Lithuania
IAR - FN HAMR was the only submission to actually meet the original solicitation requirements. They were later changed so that HK could be chosen.
CASASS - FN is a finalist amongst a sea of precision AR's. If that isn't a testament to it's capability I don't know what else is.
France - Again the SCAR is second place finalist and only loses out to another great rifle from a company that offered a better bid

The SCAR was made to meet a specific customers requirements and to that end it has fully succeeded in being adopted and deployed for years now.

The AR conversely has been around for over a half century and is intrenched in the commercial and government marketplace. It should not be unexpected for it to continue to win the majority of contracts for that reason alone.

Why ARfags are so determined to put down another rifle at every given opportunity is something I will never understand. Perhaps you really do see it as a competing threat?

>>31616123
honestly id still want a scar even if everything you said was true, the only reason i can see it not being adopted is its price tag, other than that it's simply great

>>31616282

All that shit by you just to defend another failed prototype from the fish gun era

>>31616373

Careful, your insecurities are showing.

>>31616282
>muh scar
>muh socom requirements

It's not that "ARfags" want to put the SCAR down. It's that the SCAR has demonstrated over and over to be a bad option for militaires world wide.

>>31616416

still trying to defend a rifle whose plastic parts are known to melt in the middle east heat I see

>>31615921
Gee Bill, why does mom let you have 2 scars

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>>31616438

Won't stop him from justifying his safe queen which btw is a perfect 50 yard rifle that is totally worth the price of 3 contract spec AR's

>>31616438

In the context of this thread I will agree with you. I don't believe the SCAR is well suited for automatic adoption by every military or even most militaries. Especially those with a large preexisting logistical institution established around the AR such as the US.

However, to suggest that this alone is somehow indicative of a bad product as several people in the thread are doing is just plain disingenuous.

It's a fine rifle, just not the rifle everyone wants or needs.

>>31616501

Yet it still got beat by HK which hardly has an American presence over FN which has held long standing contracts to build M16A4 and M4 rifles

So yes, the melting fish gun got btfo by HK

>>31616484
Squid?
I was always more jelly of his m1014 than anything.

SCARs are just CoD guns. Nothing wrong with that if that's what you want but that's all they really are.
>>31616501
>However, to suggest that this alone is somehow indicative of a bad product as several people in the thread are doing is just plain disingenuous.
Not sure how a SCAR is a good choice for civilians either. You can ignore the price and then it's an ok rifle.

>>31616523
>Yet it still got beat by HK which hardly has an American presence

What for the IAR? That "competition" was a joke. The Marines had preselected the 416 and re-wrote the contract requirements after HK failed to meet them so that they could receive their call of duty infantry rifle.

Look, I like the 416... but citing that fiasco as credible proof that gun is somehow "better" just highlights your ignorance regarding the subject.

>the melting fish gun got btfo by HK

There's only one melting fish gun and it's made by HK.

>>31615997
Ease of manufacture. Unless you can figure out a way to make a AR from a garden shovel with tools from the 1700s.

>>31616613

DPMS had that covered for years

>>31615894
repeat after me

C E T M E
E
T
M
E

>>31616559
>What for the IAR?
and for the m110 replacement

Is there any information about the results of the individual carbine and CSASS competitions?

>>31616373
>Nothing will ever advance past the M4, it is literally the only gun that matters and ever will matter.

>>31616629
Ha, nice one.

>>31616637
Ah yes, the mother of the G3 and the basis for HK roller delayed blowback firearms. The CETME L's magazine well for M16 mag compatibility was shit (But if it were her mags, she wouldn't havs much of a hiccup), but overall, a nice delicious OD green rifle. Twas a shame she had issues with attachment options

>>31616282
>>31616501
>>31616559

Perfectly reasonable responses dude. I think that's the problem though, you're dealing with unreasonable people.

Like you said though, the SCAR is a fine rifle but it doesn't suit the needs or desires of multiple militaries and for the context of this thread that's the reality. It doesn't meet the cut, either by performance, budget or choice.

Now in the civilian market why should I give two shits whether XYZ operators or XYZ military use a certain rifle or it's variants? If I want a fucking SCAR I'll god damned buy one...but not for the ridiculous prices they're offered at. If the military can get them for whatever they're contracted unit price is why not the consumer market? It doesn't matter to FNH where their products end up.

>>31616646
>the SCAR beat out precision rifles the likes of Remington and Knights Armament, tying with LMT and HK
>HK won the final down select with a better bid
>that makes the SCAR bad

There's really no point attempting to debate someone who thinks like this.


Yet here I am.

>>31616668
>Twas a shame she had issues with attachment options
I would have just welded picatinny on that bitch without thinking twice

>>31616706

It makes the gun bad in a sense that

1) it will remain overpriced to hell like the ACR and other failed fish guns
2)No one wants to make parts and accessories for a platform that didn't make it
3)FN will continue to sell it but not support it much like the FS200 and FNAR

So unless you want to wait on FN each time you need to upgrade or change something out. I would stay far away from the SCAR

>>31616717
>CETME rifle production: 1957
>Picatinny rail acceptance: 1995

Uh...

>>31615921
That with an ACR stock adapter is my dream rifle

>>31616765
reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[spoiler]I was aware of that but a nigga can fantasise[/spoiler]

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>>31615921
This.

>>31616689

I think that's what makes the "SCAR dichotomy" so interesting. The gun was purposely designed to make full advantage of modern mass-manufacturing techniques for reduced production cost and increased efficiency. The result of which is a very cheap rifle for FN to manufacture, albeit with a steep initial R&D and setup cost to begin assembling (which has already been written off thanks to Uncle Sam.)

Despite this fact, FN has elected to market the SCAR at a price commensurate to competing rifles with a similar feature set. Low import numbers in periodic batches combined with election cycle panic have driven up what should be a inexpensive product to insane market prices. And the demand keeps growing.

So I can't blame FN for making a profit. Their MSRP hasn't changed since the rifle was brought to market in 2009 so far as I'm aware.

I also can't blame people who are unwilling to pay the current going rate for something that cost a fraction of that to produce.

I just wish people would keep those facts in mind when talking about this rifle - instead of those speaking out both sides of their mouth, SCAR owners and haters included.

>>31616777
You watch too much /tv/

>>31615903
So apparently not Britain's SA-80...

>>31616806
I always figured more sales of lower cost items would provide higher profit but I don't know, I'm not a marketing exec. I think market presence creates more people desiring the product, more acceptance overall, potential for improvements through widespread use and all that can turn into contract influence down the road.

HK416

>>31616751
>1) it will remain overpriced to hell like the ACR and other failed fish guns

Please read >>31616806
FN has no control over the market pricing of the SCAR other than the MSRP which they set years ago.

If you think it's overpriced then don't buy it. No one is forcing you to. Though to compare it with the ACR is flat out ridiculous for reasons I will get into with your next point.

>2)No one wants to make parts and accessories for a platform that didn't make it

Have you even looked at the SCAR aftermarket? It's large and continuing to grow stronger. Obviously not, because you keep saying the gun "didn't make it" as if repeating that phrase over and over again will somehow make it true.

>3)FN will continue to sell it but not support it much like the FS200 and FNAR

Both of which are obsolete firearms with a niche market in the US that wasn't expected to go anywhere. I'm sorry your favorite fishgun never reached the market appeal the SCAR has. And yet FN will continue to "support" those products as they do with every firearm they sell.

>So unless you want to wait on FN each time you need to upgrade or change something out. I would stay far away from the SCAR

This is just plain nonsensical. Like, literally wut. As mentioned earlier the aftermarket is large and nothing is stoping you from turning your SCAR into whatever whizbang tricked out barbie gun you want.

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>>31616920
Not that anon but it's simple. The SCAR is a CoD gun. The ACR shows up randomly in the series. The SCAR is in every AAA fps these days. It's the primary reason for its success.

That and airshitters. see Squid.

TL;DR. The SCAR isn't a bad gun, it's just not the best gun. I'd go with a HK416 over a Scar L any day. That said, I'd rather a Magpul Masada than both.

>>31616920

The aftermarket is nothing stop making shit up

>>31616902

I would agree with your assessment on how to best grow the market share. The SCAR's low price SHOULD be one of it's main competitive selling points, but it isn't. Instead it's mocked for being overpriced and rightfully so.

I believe the reason it's priced where it's at is due to the production bottle neck FN faces in Belgium. Labor strikes, and numerous foreign military contracts all vying for limited time on congested production lines has lead to a overall low number of SCAR rifles being produced and imported.

Without the economy of scale to aggregate their profit FN chose to take a bigger chunk out of every rifle sold.

The rumor going round has it FN America will be opening up the SC plant for commercial sales of SCAR rifles including the Mk 20. If that's the case there is a small chance we might see a drop in price and much needed increase in availability.

>>31616997
The aftermatket is pretty good sized. Obviously smaller than AR, smaller than AK, but SCAR aftermarket is probably third in size.

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>>31616957

Do you not remember Remington/Bushmaster slapping their logo on everything and marketing through COD/Future Weapons?

The SCAR was featured in GRAW, but was then dropped in favor of the ACR for virtually every major release since. The only game I can think of that featured SCAR's is TC's Division, but even that had ACR's as well.

FN spends zero dollars on video games, that I can promise you.

TL:DR; tell me what AAA games have SCAR's, I want to play them.

>>31617050

Again completely untrue unless you are counting rail accessories that can be put on anything with a rail attachment

>>31617060

What accessory do you need for your SCAR that you can't use already?

>>31617060
But it is true.
Do you have an actual argument asides from saying no?

>>31617052
>thinking I know specifics about modern CoD titles
FN doesn't need to spend money on the games. The SCAR is just a favorite of the underage that plays those games. It's their big pop culture gun.

>>31616868
That meme is nearly 20 years old now.

>>31617081

I'm just saying I only remember seeing the "SCAR" in MW2 and 3, but those were the last games I actually played. The ACR seems to be much more recognized by most of my nogunz cawadooty friends.

>>31617080

other than your imaginary support market that doesn't exist?

>>31617128
>Do you have an actual argument asides from saying no?

>no

>t. Fox

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>>31617128
>So no argument
Stay classy anon

>>31617119
I guarantee just about every tween-teen in America can identify the SCAR. More so than the ACR which to my knowledge is in 1 CoD and I think BF3? I know they threw a SCAR in that shit CS GO game.

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>>31617160
>>31617164

>PROVE THAT A NONEXISTENT THING DOESN'T EXIST

>>31617173
FPS games are popular, but not that popular

>>31617192

You could just answer my simple question: >>31617079

>>31617192
So what has a larger aftermarket, asides from an AR or AK?

gay

>>31617194
FPS games are the number one selling game in the world as far as the past 16 years go. CoD sold like over 30 million games just on PS3 I believe. They made more money than any movie has.

>>31617209

The Remington 700 market
The G3 Market

Shit, the M1A market is bigger

>>31617209

Glock. Probably 10/22's.

Not that dumb anon but SCAR's certainly aren't the third largest. Definitely much bigger than ACR's lol.

>>31617231
Angry Birds, Candy Crush etc has a larger base.
And just because FPS games are big sellers, that doesn't meant that everyone plays them.

>>31617209
desu there's probably a solid chance the SKS market is larger than the AR or AK market if you consider the mass amount of cheap shit like tapco and beyond that has been around since the '90s.

>>31616957
>posts anime
opinion discarded.

>>31617249
>mobile games
>counting as games
I'm not a millennial.
>And just because FPS games are big sellers, that doesn't meant that everyone plays them.
But a very large percentage does in America. And that over 30 million number was correct. CoD sold over 30 million copies in America alone just on PS3.

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>>31617265
>Touhou
>anime
Leave normie.

>>31617238
Ill give you the remmy, was thinking of semi autos.
The M14 market was bigger, but lots of places closed up. G3 market is mostly milsurp, as in few places are currentlly making parts, as in its largely dead, and people are selling off the remains.

SCAR actually has new products coming out, new companies making parts for them.

>>31617246
>pistols
>rimfire

>>31617263
Tapco is about it. People who own SKSs wither dont have money, or dont really spend it on the rifle. SCARfags have no problems spending money apparently.

>>31617295

All that shit just to say that you are wrong with your 3rd largest market lie?

>>31617282
The entire series has sold 175 million copies worldwide.
Grand Theft Auto is a bigger seller.....

http://www.gamezone.com/news/call-of-duty-franchise-surpasses-175-million-copies-sold-3414623

>>31617323
GTA also isn't a FPS.

This thread belongs on >>>/v/ for this many noguns underageb& in here.

>>31617318
no

>>31617173
>and I think BF3?
It was DLC in a pack. The gun had low recoil, but was out paced by the M4A1 and Carbine'd Tavor in almost every way.

>>31617443
Talking about the game that has sniper rifle shotguns. Don't think anyone took the balance seriously let alone DICE.

>>31617464
They never do. In like any game. A 7.62mm round from a sniper rifle does the same damage as one from a machine gun. Same thing with 5.56. While they did do things like damage fall off at ranges (m16 vs m4 for example) the utter lack of respect for the cartridges the guns fire is something that always grinded my gears.

>>31616751
Whats the fish gun slang mean

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>>31617811

>>31615995
He said military dumbass

>>31616025
Your assburgers is showing.

>>31618256
It's obvious that they're either trolling or a complete idiot. You shouldn't have bitten the b8.

>>31618256
didnt the military use gold desert eagles in metal gear solid

>>31617811

Pretty much every weapon that tried to replace the M4 and failed, known for their fish like design and only being liked by nonguns call of duty players

>>31620753
The XM8 was basically just a G36 slightly altered for American use.

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>>31616040

>>31616775
the KDG stock sucks. It's not as user friendly.

>>31616957
>The SCAR is in every AAA fps these days
let me fix that for you:
>I can't afford a SCAR, so I'll just shit talk it to make myself feel better.

Fuck off.

>>31616997
>The aftermarket is nothing

let me tell you what I have on my SCAR16:

SuperScar Trigger
KDG stock
PMM extended mag release
PMM extended selector
PMM battery assist device
GG&G forward extended rail
GG&G QD cup near stock
KDG charging handle
Ergo grip

What I don't have:

Billet lower (at least 2 manufacturers)
rail extension
shit I don't even know about.

So unless you're looking for a match SS barrel and cryptic coated bolts, you can do whatever you want to your SCAR.

>>31616123
>6 was canned for being no better than an M4 and JSOC consistently siding with the 416 over the 16,

you're dumb as fuck.

SCAR-L was terminated due to budgetary concerns. 10% cut across the board plus additional regiments being formed. M4s were free, SCARs aren't.

As far as JSOC with HK416, HK did the development FOR FREE.

Depends on the country and easily available ammo locally beloved as manufacture.

I would say, 2 weapons, 1 of them is the 686 the other whatever.

>>31622703
>being in popular games is a negative
K, millennial.

>>31615894

AR15s are definitely up there because of how long they've been in service and where. AKs as well because in no small part of their emphasis on exportability. AR18s get an honorable mention because of how influential it was in other weapon designs.

My personal favorite is the FAL though.