/thg/ Treadhead General

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>>31598878
OP: As always, feedback, suggestions wanted and appreciated.
Welcome to another thread of /thg/. We’re in the 1960s right now, and I’ve jumped ahead a little bit, electing to examine the Gepard first before the ZSU-23-4, which is the natural progression from the ZSU-57-2. I will, however, get to the Shilka very soon. I was also thinking about the Falcon, but there’s simply not enough information on it that’s not contradicted in other sources, unverifiable or plain misleading.
An interesting to note about the Flakpanzer Gepard was the incredible breadth of firms that participated in the development process. The Matador prototype was championed by the firms Rheinmetall, AEG, Siemens and Krauss-Maffei, while the later victorious 5PFZ-A was created by Oerlikon, Contraves, Oerlikon, Siemens-Albis, Hollandse-Signaalapparaten and Krauss-Maffei/Porsche, demonstrating a significant amount of cross pollination in the various cooperative operations run by the European defense industry. The Gepard has had a bit of a sleepy service life since its introduction into West German service, with the Netherlands and Belgium being major export customers, the former operating a variant called the 5PZF-CA1 since 1977 with an indigenous radar. Currently, Germany is the only Western European state to operate the Gepard, and is selling excess quantities to developing nations, a recent sale including Jordan in 2012. Currently, it has been stuck in a state of limbo, as it cannot be entirely removed from ready storage until the SysFla is fully deployed.

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>>31598878

Why 35mm when 40mm also exists? What pushed European militaries away from the 40mm Bofors?

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What tank?

Looks German.

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>>31598898
More tank news, as per the new format.
If you have more queries regarding a news story, just point it out, and I’ll further elaborate and provide links.

As the vast majority are already aware, the onset of AUSA 2016 has revealed the Griffin technology demonstrator vehicle, General Dynamics Land Systems’ contender for the Mobile Protected Firepower tender. According to project director for AFVs Colonel James Schirmer, no specific requirements have been set as of yet, but the MPF vehicle is likely to be 32 tonne maximum weight and be armed with a 105 mm or 120 mm gun. Incidentally, the Oculus Rift VR was used as a product simulation for the Griffin.
Also, at AUSA, and only a short walk from the Griffin itself, is the prototype ambulance model of the AMPV. In December 2016, BAE intends to hand over the first of its 29 Armored Multi-Purpose Vehicles to the US Army at its York facility. One has been completed and 9 more are on the production line, according to company spokespersons in October. In addition, BAE has utilised the AMPV’s innovations on legacy Bradleys, showing off the next generation Bradley on the AUSA floor.
Again at AUSA, Spain’s SAPA Transmission has developed a new family of automatic transmissions intended for wheeled and tracked AFV applications. The ideal usage of said transmissions is said to be between 600 and 800hp engines. For tracked vehicles, the firm’s SG family is said to offer more power to the sprocket than conventional transmissions, and has already been employed in the Pizarro IFV.
In other news, the US Army’s first rotational Armored Brigade Combat Team is set to reach Europe in January as part of a response to Russian moves in the east. The 3rd Brigade of the 4th Division in Fort Carson, Colorado will start loading in the coming weeks.
Finally, keep a close eye on this one: General Motors and TARDEC are developing a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle based off a Chevrolet Colorado.

And that’s all for now.

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>>31598920
The vehicle in the background of that image is a 2S25 Sprut-SD self-propelled tank destroyer of Russian origin.

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>>31598918
In all honesty, I'm not too sure about that either. It could just be that Oerlikon offered the most competitive bid or had the most extensive network of industrial contacts.

>>31598931
In case anyone wondered what the Dutch Gepard looked like, designated the PRTL.

>>31598918
Maybe for twin linked weapons 35 is more stable and accurate than 40.

>>31598931
>Romania buying Gepards just as every other Yuro user is dumping theirs
>Still probably the most high tech ground vehicle they have
Feelsbadman

>>31599082
No massive radar dish?

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Germans know how to make A E S T H E T I C armored fighting vehicles.

>>31600458
Not sure but I think the dish on some geopards folds down

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>>31600721

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>>31598878
This is possibly the most German pic I have seen all day.

>>31601058
>That NCO concernedly checking the time
>The new kid having no idea what's going on
>The old guy, hand on hips, who's just done with this shit
>Facepalm guy in the background
Such is life on a West German tank depot.

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>>31600783
>Not sure but I think the dish on some geopards folds down

I'm fairly sure it folds down on all of 'em. Requirement for train and trailer transport, needs to fit trough tunnels and shieet.

>>31601352
Main difference with the Dutch one was a slightly changed turret shape and position to accomodate the weird shape of their homebrew radar.

>>31598931
Is the next gen Bradley really all it's cracked up to be? Sounds like they just took a AMPV and slapped a slightly newer turret on it.

>>31600721
Gepard seems so much more advanced than the Shilka and any other western SPAAG. Is this just German engineering?

>>31602289
Sticking a Bradley turret on an AMPV is exactly what it is.

The point is a relatively cheap upgrade (base hull swap) that fixes the Bradleys primary flaw (not designed with IED's in mind) while allowing room for future growth (up to 50 tons).

If the US Army can spare the money is another question.

>>31599082
The radar are folded behing the turrets, the horizontal tube-like thingies under tarps.

>>31598918
>What pushed European militaries away from the 40mm Bofors?

The 35mm Oerlikon is a better AA gun (rate of fire, velocity, weight of the gun, feed system etc).

It probably didn't hurt that it was a "made in house" gun for Germany as well.

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>General dynamics in cooperation with the IMI Systems (Israel Military Industries) presents latest generation of active protection system with the new Iron Fist Light (IFL) Active Protection System (APS) at AUSA 2016, the Association of United States Army Exhibition and Conference which takes place in Washington D.C., United States.

>Designed to protect soldiers and vehicles from anti-armor threats, the Iron Fist rapidly and reliably detects, tracks and neutralizes anti-tank rockets (i.e. RPG), anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs), kinetic energy and high explosive anti-tank (HEAT) rounds with two layers of active protection.

>The Iron Fist is a full spectrum active protection system with soft and hard kill counter-measures

>For optimal reliability, the system utilizes two independent sensing techniques: radio frequency (RF) and passive infra-red (IR). Upon a threat warning, a long-range soft kill electro-optical jammer engages the threat’s tracking and sensing behavior. If needed, a close-range hard kill interceptor physically destroys or deflects the threat a safe distance from the defended platform. The blast interceptor effectively destroys or deflects an incoming threat with minimal fragmentation, minimizing collateral damage or injury to nearby personnel.

>The IFL provides 360° protection coverage for close range scenarios in both open terrain and urban environments.

>General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems and Israel Military Industries (IMI) are teamed to provide vehicle integration and production of the Iron Fist. The Iron Fist has successfully performed a full series of field interception tests against all threat types, including on-the-move and cluttered urban environment in both light and heavy vehicle configurations.

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What is this object in the circle?

>>31604141
Some sort of soft-kill APS maybe?

>>31598920
>Looks German
>blue and white stripe undershirts clearly visible

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>>31603269
>Designed to protect soldiers
Can't wait for the Russians to invent man-portable ERA.

>>31606225
>man portable ERA
>ERA
>armor designed to negate shaped charge attacks, which are primarily used to attack armored targets
so unless it was some NERA garbage, which why would you waste weight slapping a liner of rubber in there when you could probably get the same effect with more armor or spall liner, you would basically be strapping a metal and explosive sandwhich to your chest, and I'm pretty sure the allahu akbars already got the explosive part down pat.
[spoiler]the protecting infantry part might be due to neutralizing the warhead and any possible HEDP effects/ ERA cooking off and neutralizing the shaped charge attack at the cost of spewing shrapnel all over[/spoiler]

>>31604141
Paging Merkgunner

>>31603269
So I understand that it's a smaller scale version of Troph? Trophy is still a contender for Abrams tanks IIRC.

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>>31598878
Matador looks far more retro than the PFZ did.

>>31607032
Iron Fist is a grenade based APS while Trophy is a MEFP on a swivel, different systems made by rival Israeli companies.

Iron Fist, Trophy, ADS, Iron Curtain and Quick Kill are the contenders for the US's selection.

>>31606225
>ALLAHU BLYAT

>>31607211
Ah thanks for clearing that up. Do grenades offer any specific advantages?

>>31607256
Wider area of effect, I guess?

>>31607256
Rafael is currently working to integrate Iron Fist's interceptor with Trophy's radar system. So they apparently think it's better at least.

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>>31598878
>Mehr Dakka Edition

No reason this shouldn't have worked, other then corporate greed and government corruption...

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>>31607623

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>>31607642

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>>31607650

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>>31607688

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>>31607706

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>>31607727

>>31607623
It should not have been that difficult to make a radar SPAAG for the tech and knowhow the US had, and they still fucked it up.

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>>31607739

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And then there is this thing, speaking of SPAAGs

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>>31607256
The interceptor in Iron Fist uses metallic powder instead of fragmentation which minimizes collateral damage and allows it to tip APFSDS.

Trophy's MEFP (an EFP that fires many smaller projectiles instead of one large penetrator) has a faster reaction time and an autoloader.

>>31607777
Quads confirm the dakka

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>>31607747
Welcome to bribes and corruption, where the best performing vehicle in trials was not selected.

>>31607829
Quite impressive that the Bofors gun is still in frontline service as an AA-gun in a western nation

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>>31607836
hey guys, someone talking about a cancelled meme tank?

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>>31607888
Nice trips

>Tfw no 37mm gattling gun
The A-10 aint got shit on this.

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>>31607888
Trips confirms the meme.
But I'm glad to see the old Buford back.
Pic unrelated.

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>>31607888
The M8 gets panties in a knot because it was literally ready for full rate production, with crews trained and everything, only to have politicians kick it in the balls.

>>31607888
>>31607935
>>31607934
The M8 gets my approval since it's part of the most fantastically brilliant action sequence of all time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=104tQfcK1sI

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>>31607917
>make 37mm gatling AA gun (complete with special snowflake ammunition)
>only give it a half second worth of ammo

>>31607956
>suspension of disbelief ruined by the fact that the M8 was hollow inside

>>31607934

Dating a Tiger II is the definition of a high maintenance relationship.

>>31607934
lol are there more of these?

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Are we posting SPAAGs? I'll leave this here, one of my favorites.

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>>31606388
oh man, now that i think about that, man portable ERA almost sound like a joke!

>>31608074
Top tier spaag m8

>>31607917
wow

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>>31608099
similar with different guns

>>31608021
Great sequence, but their M8 had the modular ERA and composite package, which means it could not have been airdropped due to its weight.

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Autoloaders are objectively superior to manual feed.

>>31608138
In small or very large calibers.

>>31608194
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2A46_125_mm_gun

>>31608213
Nice non sequitur there my friend.

>>31608138
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NIaoOabF_0

>>31608138
Yes, but only non slav autoloaders.
The french one is top tier.

>>31608138

>no manual backup way to load

no thanks m8

>>31608315
I know that the T-80 autoloader had a backup. Not sure about the one in the pic.

>>31598898
are those SAMs on it?

>>31608446
Ozelot LeFla I think.

>>31608264
The K2's and Type 10's autoloaders are sex by all acounts. Damn high tech Asians.

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>>31608043

There are some, but not too many.

>>31607739
>>31607753
fan-fucking-tastic models. Museum grade

>>31607739
>>31607753
>>31607727
>>31607623
>>31607642

It still utterly baffles me that the US army was not able to make a simple SPAAG.
>>31607650
>>31607688
>>31607706

>>31608873
In that same decade, the US was working on some of the most advanced cruise missile tech in the world, and yet they couldn't get a fucking autocannon tractor with a radar dish slapped on top to work.
It didn't even have to be Tunguska tier, it could have just filled the niche that the ZSU-57-2 had, and they couldn't even get a marginally improved vehicle over the M42. Incredible.

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How did the chieftains cannon compare to others of its time?

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>>31608873
>It still utterly baffles me that the US army was not able to make a simple SPAAG.

Politics and the fact that military industrial complex had more expensive way to do air defense.

>>31608899

US army is only rarely interested in adequate weapon systems that make sense. Revolutionary systems that might be out of reach with current technology levels require more spending feeding military industrial complex.

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US army had massive fuck ups in 50's and 60's when it comes to forward area air defense. Pic related, basically modern point defense SAM designed in early 60's when technology wasn't simply mature.

It all boils down to staff officers lack of common sense.

>>31609095

Politics had nothing to do with it. The machine simply did not work.

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>>31608899

>It didn't even have to be Tunguska tier, it could have just filled the niche that the ZSU-57-2 had, and they couldn't even get a marginally improved vehicle over the M42.

What a crazy machine.

>>31609143
>Politics had nothing to do with it. The machine simply did not work.

Politics had a lot to with it. If a soldier isn't a politician his career will stall as major or lt colonel.

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>>31609234
In honor of your non sequitur, have a T-72 with slat armor.

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>>31609133
>tfw no PIVADS in Afghanistan

>>31610234
There were ground based minigun emplacements though, which is close.

>>31610114
>In honor of your non sequitur, have a T-72 with slat armor.

It isn't non sequitur at all.

Staff officers do favors to each other and to flag officers, who are effectively appointed their positions by actual politicians and civilian bureaucrats. They all do favors to each other. Actual politicians in turn might have their election campaigns financed by corporations, some of those active in defense industry. This is why officers running military end of a weapons program might start to change requirements for said program or to rig tests in favor of one bidder involved in that program. Do me a favor, I'll pay back later.

Officer that refuses to play the game ruins his career pretty fast, that kind of guy never gets promoted to position where they might be the guy selecting the winner in a competition.

>>31610768

That's very nice but it doesn't change the fact that the M247 simply didn't work.

>>31608315
>>31608362

all T-64, T-72, T-80 have a manual backup either by manually powering the autoloader or by literally grabbing a stowed round and putting it in the breech

process can take between 45 to 90 seconds depending on exact method according to 2003 russian training standards

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>>31610806
>That's very nice but it doesn't change the fact that the M247 simply didn't work.

Except it did, it worked to generate a bunch of profits for the shysters involved in the program...

>>31608264

Slavs make the most reliable auto-loader in the world.

Don't be a petty shit.

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>>31611373
How many times are you going to move goalposts?

>>31611373
But the actual vehicle wasn't functional... which is what anon meant.

>>31611433
Where'd you get that from? Just want a source, not even a burger.

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>>31611995
>non-functional
the M8 AGS FCS was functional and that shit got cancelled
like even if the york wasn't a tinfoil turd, shit could have gotten cancelled for literally no reason

>>31612475
It could have, but my point is that the York was cancelled in large part due to the fact that it didn't work.

>>31612583
well, not only because it was a failure, but because it was an expensive and embarrassing failure, given that it nearly gunned down a crowd and shot a latrine

>>31601352
Pictured is not a gepard

>>31612590
>nearly gunned down a crowd and shot a latrine
I've heard horror stories, but I've never heard these!

>>31608023
Underrated post

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>>31608513
Afaik the Ozelot designation is only for the Wiesel II AA version. The missiles are Stingers.

>>31609133
Even later; they messed up the Roland import, for example.
The M109 Roland never went past prototype stage, and the truck version was only used by the ACE Mobile Force - Land (iirc) before going to the national guard.
The airforce probably played a role in the lack of US AA systems by pushing for an air superiority doctrine everywhere they went.

>>31611952
That resembles more a couch than a T-72.

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>>31608264
Russian have bustle mount autoloader for T-90 but they don't use it

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>>31610114

Anyone have a link to the /thg/ document?

>>31608929

Exceptionally well. The Chief's gun was one of its biggest (literally) strengths.

>>31612611
>Pictured is not a gepard
it is a SPAAG though, you are going to want to be able to transport your SPAAGs on a train/load them on cargo planes, meaning they better fit through tunnels/inside cargo planes

>>31611952
>How many times are you going to move goalposts?

That wasn't my post, but he was spot on how Sgt York was a success for at least some parties involved in program as they got money out of the debacle.

t. >>31609095, >>31609234 and >>31610768

>>31613196
Do you mean a screencap or the dropbox?

>>31613331
Not that anon, but would like a link to the dropbox.

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Did this extra "armour" actually provide protection against shaped charges?

>>31611373

>Except it did, it worked to generate a bunch of profits for the shysters involved in the program...

It didn't even accomplish that, actually. The Army never bought more than a handful before realizing she was a dud.

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>>31598878

According to Wikipedia, this picture was taken in California. How would a Russia SPAAG end up in CA?

>>31614303
>Be Jew Soldier inna Negev
>Have to fight some more arabs
>Arabs are garbage soldiers and consequently abandon their Shilka
>CO tells us to take it back to Tel Aviv
>Ship it to Camp Pendleton so Americans can dissect it

Just a guess.

>>31614220
Yes.

The air space and the chance of deforming the shaped charge warhead increase the protection against shaped charge warheads.

>>31614303
>russia exports military equipment to other countries
>said country goes to war.
>loses it
>victory country collect all captured equipment.
>US shows interest to buy captured equipment or something similar.
>equipment deliverd to the US.
>the US uses equipment to train their own soldiers with real OPFOR equipment.
>Some guy with a camera takes a picture of captured equipment that was built in russia being used by US OPFOR side since the country that got them in the first place lost them.
Done.

>>31614220
HEAT/Shaped charges relies on a hot stream of molten material to punch through armor, and so detonates as soon as it hits something. The length of the lance is already pre-determined, so detonating it further from armor reduces its penetrating length.

>>31614220
See
>>31613076

>>31614543
>a hot stream of molten material
>so detonating it further from armor reduces its penetrating length.

Neither of these are correct.

>>31614789
>what is the Munroe effect
>what is a standoff distance

>>31614943
Thank you for reinforcing my argument.

>>31608929

>The raw power of the 120 mm L15 APDS has not been able to outmatch the performances of the US M456 series and French OCC 105 F1 HEAT rounds used on the already existing 105 mm guns.
>Only the British were persuaded to continue on the path of three-parts of ammunition.

>>31614220
Don't listen to the nonsense others are blabbering. Listen to me.

Yes it does help. No it doesn't detonate anything earlier. Most of the older RPG rounds have piezoelectric initiators. You damage the circuit - it doesn't blow. And thats the exact thing SLAT does.

Also, this explains why modern SLAT looks like it does (blades, spaced out one from another).

And, explains why the newer RPG's have a secondary, inertial fuze (it goes boom once it hits something).

>>31613196
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/y4oultwtpsurrny/AAAF5YQlmMyQ7Ef6JcLRwqQua?dl=0

Man, it seems like I'm the only one to ever give it out these days. Favorite this, you shitters!

One question. Could a hit from an 20mm ap round damage a tanks barrel and renderung it useless? Same for the tracks/the round things moving the tracks?

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>>31599082
How was Dutch radar performance compared to German? I've actually seen and touched (no exhaust vents ofc) a PRTL today at the Dutch national military museum. Apart from the "it's from Signaalapparaten (now Thales Netherlands) it featured no information.
Another piece of information, the PRTL is almost completely withdrawn from service with a sizeable part of the fleet being mothballed.

>>31615511
It's possible. Hitting the tracks and road wheels will certainly damage them, but the gun might be a different story. It'd be very difficult to get a square hit in the first place, but I'm not sure how much damage that would necessarily do. Anything larger than 20mm, probably, but 20mm itself is somewhat low powered. It'd probably do something point blank range.

>>31601352

That vehicle is Finnish one. Leopard 2 hull with Marksman AA turret. Earlier they were fitted on T-55 hulls, if I remember correctly.

>>31601352

That vehicle is Finnish one. Leopard 2 hull with Marksman AA turret. Earlier they were fitted on T-55 hulls, if I remember correctly.

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>>31598878

Snapped today. I got some other pictures, but the quality and lighting is too bad to post here.

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>>31615606

The search radar looks a lot like the search radar on the goalkeeper CIWS.

>>31615822
that is correct, FDF bought some second-hand T-55s with extended hulls to be fitted with Marksman, then couple of years ago it was decided to put the turrets on Leopard 2 hulls

>>31598878

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=N-UnealTR-Y

So what exactly is happening in this video?

Is the gun automatically targeting the plane or is it being manually controlled the entire time?

>>31616364
The radar is folded, so they're doing it manually, via optical sight.

>>31616364

That's a ZSU-23-3

>>31616364
Looking at it more closely - yeah, they don't event have a radar. Or a fourth barrel.

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What are /thg/'s thoughts on the M1 ADATS?

>>31616734

Fund it.

>>31616734
It is basically a BMPT whose ATGM's could also be fired at low flying aircraft.

I'm kinda curious, is there any example of an inter-war tank with considerably heavier armor and firepower than what was commonplace at the start of WWII?

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>>31617292
AGDS was proposed hybrid air/ground defense turret.

>>31612296
>Where'd you get that from?

There are more model AZ carousel autoloaders in service, than any other type in the world.

The reliability of these is quite well established.

>>31607956

>This movie actually exists

>>31616734
Should have mounted a Gau-8 just for the coolness.

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>>31617469

How does the 35mm ammo fit in the same space as the AA missiles?

>>31608057
why do not exist dam it why?

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>>31618274
Ammo is stored here, closer to the crew.

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>>31618367

>>31618432
This tbhfam

>>31618432

The biggest probably at I see is ammo consumption. At 3000 rpm the gun would only last for 5 seconds. The ROF could be lowered to 120 rpm in order to engage land targets, but those were the only two options. So you have to either fire really fast or really slow with no intermediate options.

>>31614943
Mate the Munroe Effect is 100 percent kinetic energy, the temperature of the copper has nothing to do with it.

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>>31617452
Char B1.

>>31617452
T-35?

>>31598918
Have you seen the size difference of 35mm Oerlikon and 40mm Bofors? Rather spit out 120 35mm than 20 40mm.

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>>31619013

>Have you seen the size difference of 35mm Oerlikon and 40mm Bofors?

Yes, and that's why I know 40mm Bofors is better. More stopping power than wimpy 35.

>>31617452
Kv series
Char
Churchill

>>31619036
35mm with AHEAD ammo is simply superior for AA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0oHvqIUEmY

>>31619226

AHEAD is indeed cool. But so Is Bofors 3P.

>>31619255
3P is cool, and really good for surface targets, but it is far less effective than AHEAD at catching fast moving aerial targets.

>>31619289
Indeed it is.

>>31612793

Why would the US army waste money on that shit when they know they do have air superiority? When russiaboos boast about their "muh s-400", russia blows most of their military budget on that because they know they can't compete in the air. their strategy is defense because they know they are outclassed and fucked.

The US Navy however has SAM systems that are better than anything russia has (SM-2, SM-6, SM-3) because russian naval doctrine is spamming cruise missiles.

>>31619823
A country with the economy of Italy cant possibly compete with the nation who spends more on its military than the next 15 nations combined.

So a defensive strategy only makes sense.

>>31619952
I think it was in the movie Syriana that I heard "if 5% of the world's population has 50% of its military spending, then the persuasive powers of that country is in decline". Course, in the context of that movie, it was meant to be ironic, as the US is shown to have the biggest geopolitical dicks around, but it's also a bit worryingly true.

>>31619823
I think THAAD is technically more capable than S-400 as well.

is this thread fucked for anyone else?

>>31620688
It wont let me copypaste so fuck it just have the link.

>>31619823
http://breakingdefense.com/2016/10/for-want-of-a-nail-awful-missing-pieces-of-nato/

>Romania vs drones

>>31620726
>The German-made Gepard (Cheetah), for example, was “a great air defense cannon mounted on a Leopard (tank) chassis,” Lt. Gen. Hodges told reporters after his public remarks. “I’d love to have that.

Man, if it's that bad, maybe we should really have M113 mounted C-RAMs for something.

>>31620928
It's more of the fact that even a Stinger costs many, many times what a cheap UAV you can buy on Amazon or Alibaba does.

>>31621069
With the advent of "smart ammunition", would squad infantry weapons he able to handle drone swarms as well?

>>31619823
Air superiority doesn't shoot down rockets, artillery, or missiles

>>31621794
Probably not.

>>31621842
Only one system does that, and it's not even a good AA system. Don't delude yourself otherwise. It's a towed autocannon, with all the negatives that go along with it.

>>31621899
the US doesn't need AA
They need vehicles to deal with the few things that planes cannot, such as choppers & rockets/artillery/missiles.

Certainly theres no reason why people should be dying to random mortar attacks in this day & age.

>>31621919
I disagree intensely. The role of countering mortars and artillery is, to be frank, unneeded in maneuver formations and detrimental to the effectiveness of protecting against important threats- helicopters, low flying aircraft, UAVs, and terrain following missiles. The US does not necessarily require a brand new SAM, but what DOES suit it needs is a large caliber SPAAG. Funny, they're actually making EAPS. What a coincidence

As I said earlier, it's not a good AA system, and you won't just "put it in a vehicle and drive around with it". Even assuming you got it to work just fine, if you wanted it to counter mortars and artillery you'd be shooting every bird in the sky, and some of the larger insects too. Never mind the fact that you'd need to be radiating the entire time, thereby letting the enemy know exactly where you are. I'm sure that'd work brilliantly. To be frank, it's unneeded and not going to work in the first place.

>>31621919
>They need vehicles to deal with the few things that planes cannot, such as choppers & rockets/artillery/missiles.
why not both tho

>>31618426
that's the coolest looking thing i've seen in a longtime

>>31621899
Pantsir literally does all of that shit too

>>31622336
Cost.
More capability = higher cost = fewer units.

>>31622426
I've never heard anywhere that Pantsir takes down mortars and artillery shells.

>>31622589
According to the Wiki it can take down PGM's and Cruise missiles.
A ground based CIWS.
A radar truck will probably give it that capability

>>31622650
That's not the same thing by far. Completely different threats and threat envelopes.

>>31616364
In addition to a panaroma style optical sight, and a magnified sight suitable for ground fires, there is a turret mounted open AA sight that a gunner can use hatch open unbuttoned - like the AA sights on some .50 cals

>>31600721
Dem grabby claws

>>31622076
>if you wanted it to counter mortars and artillery you'd be shooting every bird in the sky
>and some of the larger insects too

Are you aware its not the 60's anymore?

What is this large caliber SPAAG gonna be doing except pretending to be a C-RAM?

>>31623195
>Are you aware its not the 60's anymore?
Are you aware that C-RAM does that now? No, of course you aren't.

>What is this large caliber SPAAG gonna be doing except pretending to be a C-RAM?
Literally everything a SPAAG is capable of, with the added bonus of a significantly higher engagement ceiling, thus allowing for increased utility against all targets, but especially Class 2 UAVs. C-RAM's engagement ceiling is such that it could only take down Class 1s.

>>31615409
>>Don't listen to the nonsense others are blabbering.

> It takes the form of a rigid slatted metal grid fitted around key sections of the vehicle, which disrupts the shaped charge of the warhead by either crushing it, preventing optimal detonation from occurring, or by damaging the fuzing mechanism, preventing detonation outright. Although slat armor is effective against incoming missiles, it does not offer complete protection – as many as 50% of missile impacts are unimpeded by the slat design

And the source sites tradoc.

And pic related >>31614220 uses a much older design for its extra protection so chance of reliable damage the fuze to the point of no detonation at all is much less.

But it is facing a much older type of shaped charge warhead used in the captured bazookas and the gap between the cage armor and the main armor itself is great enough to competely stop penetration of main armor combined with chance of deforming warhead so less optimal jet is formed and chance of completely destroying the fuze.


But you only mentioned the destruction of the fuze and is implying that is the only thing it does so if anything then it is you that are blabbering nonsense.

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>>31622941
Muzzle brakes are very cool.

>>31623716
Those actually measure muzzle velocity and program the burst distance of AHEAD ammo, watch this video >>31619226

>>31621889
>tfw all the tech advancements in CoD AW are set to be a reality but almost none of it will make its way down to the regular grunts because of budget cuts

>>31620726
Theoretically, if the nozzles didn't fit, couldn't they jerry a pipe or fill the tank up manually? Not idea, but in an emergency.

>>31624214
In a conventional war situation, with Russian divisions breathing down your neck, that inconvenience could prove fatal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rFBQd1Sp1w

>>31624450
Spinning radar dishes make me happy for some reason.

>>31608873
I pass sgt yorks home and tanks everyday going and coming from work here in tn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDe-RF7lxaA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zwpd-sKkNp0


blyaat

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>>31616734
AAA (anti-aircraft abrams) are cool.

>>31619823
NATO wouldn't have had total air superiority in 1980 against a Warsaw Pact attack.

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>>31625639
>BMP guy almost made it

>>31621069
This is why the US Army is super interested in lasers, you don't need a megawatt death ray to pop UAS.

>>31625639

>average Russian amphibious assault.

>>31626231
Let's not start that here.

>>31626231
Kek

>>31625639
kek reminds me of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTDqcfPUTt0

>>31628269
>We are a proffesional force

>>31615409
>SLAT armor

It's not an acronym.

>>31628269
I swear to god, water is the one thing AFVs will never be able to fully conquer.

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>>31629021

>>31624628
Photos?

>>31626188
I heard that a lot of the research isn't even based around destroying the vehicles, but targeting the optics and sensors such that it becomes severely impaired.

What'll make it onto an armored hull first, US LaWS or Israeli Iron Beam?

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>>31630357
>>31629992
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukIYCiLArP0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koamvYOjrtY

>>31630776
The guy in the second video has one of the most dapper suits I've seen at a defense expo.

>>31626231
In all seriousness, that raises some strong concerns over what the Soviet invasion of the west would have looked like if that BMP-2 failure wasn't just a one-off.

>>31633602
>1985
>Russkies bust through West Germany, carving thinly stretched NATO and US forces to pieces
>The west is in disarray, armor retreating fast
>Soviet Mechanized Division reaches the banks of the Rhine
>FOR THE MOTHERLAND
>Hundreds of BMP-1s and 2s start fording the river
>30 minutes later
>hundreds of BMP hulks line the bottom of the riverbed
>Soviet invasion called off, full retreat
>US reinforcements arrive in force
>WWIII over, stalemate

>>31633975
>US reinforcements arrive
>Abrams collapse all the bridges crossing into East Germany
Stalemate

>>31625639

In the water crossing it seems the nose of the BMP keeps getting deeper and deeper the further they are from the departure shore until the fording plate fails and the entire nose dips below surface. A sign of the hull bottom space taking on water through hull gaps, perhaps?

AFAIK, in the FDF where they use modernized (twice so far) BMP-2s they have had a hull upgrade to better facilitate water crossings since they have to practice a lot of those. This upgrade was made right after they were purchased and added to their inventory.

http://www.defensetech.org/2016/10/05/army-test-new-modular-turret-stryker/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WcJBY6_FA8

>>31634302
That is what it looked like to me, as it slowly sank the trim vane was unable to keep upright and it submarined.

>>31628269
>VC: go! keep going!
>driver: fuck nigga, u crazy

>>31628269
Apparently someone forgot to plug the drainage.

>>31619823
>Why would the US army waste money on that shit when they know they do have air superiority?

To maintain institutional knowledge in air defense if situation regarding air superiority changes in the future.

>>31634848
>those two people at the back that almost drowned

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see this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsD4vLLJeq4

still wonder why we haven't just gone back to the M8.....

>>31626231
that is Ukraine
Russian naval infantry use BTR-82A

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>>31629021
not the China

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>>31635539
>Ukraine
>>>/x/

>>31635539
Russians still practise with BMPs though.

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It's Yom Kippur eve. Post some vintage armor.

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>>31635974

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>>31635984

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>>31635993

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>>31636003

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>>31636015

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>>31636024

>>31634302
>>31634421
The dumb assholes couldn't secure the wave shield properly. So it folded and the watter spilled over the top.

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>>31636029

>>31635798
It looks fucking cool, i'll give them that much

>>31635993
anyone able to ID the wreck to the right of the M60?

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>>31638383

Here's some comedy to cheer you up: https://m.sputniknews.com/military/201610111046219208-new-us-light-tank/
Russians are projecting so hard it's almost sad.

>>31640026
>may be able to fire gun launched ATGMs
Plz stahp Ivan

>>31635817
I do wonder if any ejected casings have damaged the radar array.

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>>31635620
>>>/pol/

>>31641288
Considered buying an MT-LB and converting it into a hardcore RV.

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>>31635535
because the US is still looking for one that can give a half-decent blow job while brewing coffee

>>31642106
That's the most patriotic thing I've seen today.

>>31635787
>>31635798
>>31635807
>>31635813
>>31635817
Nice work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM82Vuq3PdM

>>31635535
Because the M8 lacks the protection and firepower the Griffin is able to afford.

>>31643333
Not really.

>>31643373
>not designed with IED's in mind
>STANAG 5 with uparmor vs STANAG 6 or higher
>105mm gun vs 120mm gun

>>31642106
>he touched the tank tender-like

>>31643826
goddamn krauts penetrated her without consent

>>31643626
>not knowing about the upgunned M8

>>31643951
There's a lightweight 120 demonstrator out now by I think general dynamics

>>31643626
STANAG 6 with uparmor, you mean. Just like the Griffin. There was a 120mm demonstrator as well.

The only point you might have is IEDs, whose threat is overblown anyways, but I'm not familiar with how protective against IEDs the Scout SV platform is supposed to be in the first place.

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fuck this

>>31644153
>STANAG 6 with uparmor, you mean.

No, protection against Soviet era 30mm APDS is STANAG 5. This is the same protection level A2 and A3 Bradleys have.

STANAG 6 is 30mm APFSDS, which generally have twice the penetration.

>>31644187
Those were dark times.

>>31644335
dark but stylish

>>31644246
And I'm sure that the Griffin counts using the same type of ammunition. Or do you think that they would suddenly switch the mold for some strange reason? They have the same level of protection.

>>31644187
>ahead
>kick the back
>back
>kick the head

>>31644187
I bet thats a good way to send signal while going 20 mph across rough ground....

>>31644426
>They have the same level of protection.

No, they don't. The M8 is limited to STANAG 5.

>>31644617
I'm saying that the Griffin is as well.

>>31644460
>the song playing on the tank radio is Dean Martin's "Ain't That a Kick in the Head"

>>31645083
The Griffin, by nature of being made out of an Ajax, is capable of STANAG 6.

>>31602599
yeah. very good design, very flexible, very upgradeable
Tunguska got it beat on practicality tho'

>>31604141
IR sensors box for Trophy

>>31603269
> a bolt-on, self-contained APS
very very very nice. it will sell like crazy

>>31613069
not so sure about that
the T-14 has a very big bustle and we don't know what's inside

>>31624450
I wonder if there was any German soldier who ever served on one of these things who did NOT fantasize about mowing down hordes of Russian conscripts

>>31618926
nigga it had 30mm max thats like the avare armour of 1930-1940

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>>31642106

>>31645553
That tank does not have Trophy.

Not exactly /thg/ related, but thought it was pretty neat, gets really intense towards the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T_u-cKSsis&list=WL&index=17

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>>31643265

>>31645506
Provide a source for that, anon. I'm saying that it's only STANAG 5, or have you not figured that out yet?

>>31647822
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASCOD#Protection

>>31648035
That does not say STANAG 6, anon. That is quite clearly STANAG 5, unless they were suddenly changing metrics entirely.

But here, take a look at this.

http://www.infodefensa.com/archivo/files/140602_blindado_ascod_general_dynamics.pdf

Page 5.

Gasp, it says maximum is STANAG 5! How could this be?

>>31648400
>The Ulan has been fitted with MEXAS composite armour,[17] which increases ballistic protection against up to 30 mm APFSDS rounds fired from a 1,000 m range

30mm APFSDS is STANAG 6.

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>>31649391
Oh, what's this? Are you ignoring this official publication? Here, I'll even put the picture here for you. Is it hard to read?

Mate, you're wrong at this one. 30mm is not one single caliber. You're being directly contradicted by official publications and you're sticking your head in the ground like an ostrich, unwilling to admit that you were wrong.

>>31646089
>that guy run over at 48.00

>>31646136
Some the largest muzzle flashes I've seen on a Spaag.

>>31648035
>>31649513

BOTH of you are arguing the wrong numbers.

ASCOD =/= Ajax

You can never use ASCOD values to determine Ajax capability. It's almost a completely different vehicle, as much in common with ASCOD as the SEPv3 has with the original M1.

Ajax is significantly heavier and better protected. It's 16 tons heavier for goodness sake. Exact statistics have not been revealed yet. However, given the ASCOD is indeed STANAG 5, that indicates things about the Ajax, given it does indeed haave additional armor.

HOWEVER, before people start leaping onto that as touting the Griffin, remember that the Griffin is a modified Ajax chassis, it's lighter than a normal one, even with that giant turret its not as heavy as a normal Ajax, so the Griffin is almost certainly STANAG 5 as well, while the "main" Ajax is notably heavier and more armored.

>>31598931
Feedback

Put a space in between your articles

>>31651124
The Griffin (Ajax hull) at AUSA was lighter because it was shorter and had no extra armor beyond the 7.62 base.

>>31649513
http://www.bundesheer.at/truppendienst/ausgaben/artikel.php?id=1251

>>31652163
Out of curiosity, do we have any German military personnel in the thread?

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>be US soldier in Vietnam
>fighting in some godforsaken field somewhere
>suddenly this heap of WW2 tech lumbers onto the battlefield (built in the 60s, keep in mind)
>can't feasibly engage American aircraft
>starts lobbing 37mm AA rounds at you
>shit your pants
God damn I love the Chinese Type 63

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>>31654578
until a Sheridan shows up and gives a friendly reminder why the KV-2's a piece of shit

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>>31654653
Sheridan's were pretty fucking sweet. Wouldn't want to hit a mine in one though.

>>31654839
Pic requested of that aluminum gone up in smoke.

>>31654578
>dat unviewable collection
goddamn fort lee. goddamn fort benning.

>>31655645
Best I could do, but yeah (from Wikipedia):
>This was largely due to the high casualty rate of both Sheridans and their crews as mines and rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs) that would only damage an M48 Patton tank, would destroy the Sheridan and kill or wound most, if not all, of its crew.

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>>31655759
Forgot pic

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>>31654653
Type 63 is a T-34 hull

>>31654653
>why the KV-2's a piece of shit
let me count the ways

>>31616734
The ADATS is an awesome missile systems, I am genuinely disappointed that it was never fully adotped.

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>>31616734
Do want

>>31656261
What was the purpose here anyway? Secondary AA with limited elevation, or Grozny-B-Gone 2.0?

>>31610602
but not ground based minguns with exploding bullets.

>>31655820
It's incredibly overrated. Beam riding is BAD when you're targeting aircraft.

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Why didn't this live?

Air transportable
Sweet gun
AA capable

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Another version of the AAI RDF/LT

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>>31656527
Love the idea behind mobile frontline AA.

Helo comes over to strafe your tanks? No problem

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>>31655645

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>>31655645
also this

>>31656856
LAV-AD gives me a rager. Too bad the US phased it out of service like 10 years ago, in favor of SAMs.

LAV-AD nightfire in Iraq;
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EM82Vuq3PdM

>>31655667
I know, it fucking sucks.

>>31656359
My assumption is Grozny-b-Gone, kinda like the BMPT. Also probably gives limited defense against helos.