Irish armed forces

>>31581156
Because no one wants Ireland.

>>31581156
Because nobody's going to invade Ireland.

>>31581170
>>31581172
They get Russian bombers and subs prowling around just like the rest of western Europe. How do they defend their territory?

>>31581349
They know Britain, for many reasons, can't allow Ireland to be attacked.

It's similar to the relationship America and Canada have.

Cause Irish's a qts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td5qZqLKd64
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtrxkHDjOhw

>>31581156

Because any serious conventional threat to Ireland will be dealt with by the UK.

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>take a huge mountain of free EU cash
>get massively bailed out when economy is kill
>become a corporate tax haven to deprive the rest of Europe and USA of revenue
>spend nothing on defence
>rely on Britain and the US to defend you

The eternal Celt.

because the only conceivable military threat to Ireland is either

A) paramilitaries from the island of Ireland, which is better combated by police/intelligence (indeed the Irish army was created to prevent the IRA from overthrowing the Irish government, who had signed the Anglo-Irish treaty)

B) the UK, i.e. the only people to have launched wars of aggression against Ireland in the past 1000 years. And the british military has a 50+ billion dollar budget and would be virtually unbeatable by Ireland whatever they did simply because Ireland is small and the UK is big

There's no point making relatively small investments if it would never change the outcome, and Ireland could never afford to make the big investments needed to be even remotely competitive. Not to mention the Irish government is actually on decent terms with the UK and the two have a defence agreement, and there is virtually no paramilitary activity in Ireland (relatively).

>>31581888
>on decent terms with the UK and the two have a defence agreement
What is the agreement? Because it would seem to be one-way since Ireland can bring virtually nothing to the table.

It's not unreasonable that Ireland should have small but capable armed forces, a couple of dozen F-16s, a couple of modern destoyers to show the flag and defend its territory. You going to let the Russians violate your intergrity while being able only to watch helplessly and ask others to intervene? Ireland is a rich country now and should pull its weight instead of being a drain on others.

>>31581971
if someone is fucking around off the coast of Ireland then it's close enough for England to care. Why bother paying for staff+destroyers just to wave a flag.

>>31581156
Likely its a holdover from the civil war, since its only ever been used for UN busy work and has only taken part in one real battle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jadotville

They, along with Swedes and Indians seem to have fought reasonably well despite the uselessness of the UN.

Though they seem to be slightly ashamed of even taking part.

Basically they seem to have no ability and no stomach for fighting.

>>31581778
>rely on Britain and the US to defend you

Who are they defending Ireland from?

>>31581971
Ireland does not need "a couple dozen" fighter jets. I can see why some method of policing the airspace would be good but your suggestion is overkill. ~10 jets would be sufficient I believe, factoring in planes being grounded for repairs etc. Likewise Ireland having destroyers is overkill since the Irish navy mostly just patrols territorial waters and the current ships (which include some new vessels, frigates I believe) can do fine already.

>Just buy large warships and an airforce
again, if Ireland did try this, the budget would only allow for such a small amount that they wouldn't make any difference in a war with any conceivable enemy, be it Russia (when's the last time they invaded Ireland?) or Britain.

>Ireland is rich now

Irish people are decently well off, the Irish government is not and if they start raising tax for defence then Irish peole will not be well off any more for various reasons mostly relating to the tax system.

>>31582073
Sobriety

>>31582193
Well why not just roll over and die already?

>>31582027
Why should England care when the Irish won't pay for their own defence?

>>31582336
Morally Britain should not take money and resources away from protecting its allies and friends to defend a freeloader, but Ireland simply has the fortunate geography of having all of Europe as a buffer between it and Russia.

>>31582336
...Because that's how you get Russians on your front lawn.

>>31581439
>>31581373

This. They don't need a military, they have the UK's

>>31582336

British. The British. Not English.

Moron.

Irish GDP: $254.596 billion 16th in europe

UK GDP: $2,760.959 billion 2nd in europe

>>31582067
>Basically they seem to have no [...] stomach for fighting.

it's an ostensibly neutral country with no real enemies and is considered non-aligned. What fighting are the Irish supposed to have a stomach for?

>>31582324
It's a defeatist attitude alright, but the amount of money a small nation of 4.5 million would have to spend to be on par with a nuclear-armed nation of 65 million next door is simply impossible without a total culture shift. And aside from that there are no other conceivable threats to Ireland.

as an aside, the Irish government is about to get ~$20 billion in unpaid tax from Apple, courtesy of EU interference. I'd like to see some of that invested wisely in defence, but realistically it won't be

>>31582436
That World War taught most of Europe that The waiting for the crocodile to eat them last isn't viable. Even Finland and Sweden has a decent military, although they are already kind of unofficial semi members of NATO.

16th biggest economy, 17th biggest military spending, 0.48% of gdp.

Sure, they could maybe get one squadron of hawks or scorpions or even half a dozen secondhand f-16s, but...why?

>>31582527
Well their country is threatened and Britain is unwilling or unable to foot the bill then its better safe than sorry.

Say Russia decides that its easier to conduct those test flight over Britain by going through Irish airspace.

Also more realistically, for a country that prides itself in peacekeeping, armed helicopters, air support, tanks and SPGs are all important for peacekeeping. the Irish have none of these at all.

>>31582568
If a country with an economy ten times bigger is unable to deal with the threat, then there is literally nothing your single squadron of antiquated fighters would be able to do.

Denmark has a similar sized population as Ireland and its army has:
Active: 12,500
Reserve: 63,000
809 tracked and 257 wheeled armoured vehicles

Danish navy:
3,400 personnel + 200 conscripts[1]
16 ships, 28 vessels and 30 boats

Danish air force:
3,476 personnel + 100 conscripts[1]
93 aircraft

Equipment includes about 50 Leopard 2 MBTs, seven modern frigates and 35 F-16s.

>>31582587
Well you could argue that by having some aircraft and supporting Britain they could help make sure that would not happen.

>>31582568
>Well their country is threatened and Britain is unwilling or unable to foot the bill then its better safe than sorry.

But it isn't and won't be. Ever.

>Also more realistically, for a country that prides itself in peacekeeping, armed helicopters, air support, tanks and SPGs are all important for peacekeeping. the Irish have none of these at all.

You don't know what peacekeeping is if you think you need SPGs, tanks and jets.

And they do have air support and armed helicopters.

>>31582594
By what measure is one squadron of old planes or armed trainers going to handle anything the RAF and UK based USAF can't? If those two are overwhelmed, whatever irish planes existed in this scenario wouldn't even be a footnote.

>>31582594

You could also argue that you are a silly know-it-all, that thinks he knows better than everyone else.

>>31582436
>>31582587
Nobody is saying Ireland should have armed forces comparable to the UK's, just that it should have enough to police its own borders. Russian Blackjack bombers recently skirted Irish airspace on the way down to Spain and four countries scrambled fighters to escort them out. Ireland had to rely on RAF Typhoons. That's not acceptable. Ireland is not poor any more and can and should pay for a reasonable defence force.

>>31582601

Then why have the French sent the most expensive tank in the world to Lebanon? Why did India send tanks to Somalia. The sight of heavy armour is gonna deter baying Serbs and tribesman, men wight light vehicles often won't.

A handful of prop planes with machine guns doesn't count as air support in 2016.

>>31582634
A country that has had to be bailed out by the eu central bank doesn't exactly count as rich, m8.

>>31582634

This is different to what you were saying earlier.

>>31582666
>Then why have the French sent the most expensive tank in the world to Lebanon? Why did India send tanks to Somalia. The sight of heavy armour is gonna deter baying Serbs and tribesman, men wight light vehicles often won't.

Because they are on the extreme end of peacekeeping. That's like saying you can't do regular policing without ARs and MRAPs.

>A handful of prop planes with machine guns doesn't count as air support in 2016.

That's your opinion and that's machine guns and rocket pods.

>>31582684
The economy is recovering. And Greece is a basket case yet is armed to the teeth.

>>31581971

>a couple of dozen F-16s, a couple of modern destoyers to show the flag and defend its territor

You seriously underestimate how small their budget is.

>>31582717

Yep and they are literally paying the price for their overspending. Totally unsustainable.

>>31582700
>That's your opinion and that's machine guns and rocket pods.

Lad, if your CAS is prop planes flying low and slow to fire machine guns it's just suicide against anyone except an army of spear-wielding Congolese pygmies. It's not even worth discussing. That counts as air support in 1916, not 2016.

>>31582720
>You seriously underestimate how small their budget is.
So increase it. They can afford it.

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>>31581156
That is the Freestate army.
The CIRA is the army of the Irish Republic.

>>31582754

That proves nothing. Whilst risky, that still is a valid form of CAS.

>>31582765

Where's the money coming from?

>>31582768
Don't you have American tourists to be teaching Gaelic to, Culchie?

>>31582768
They're to busy running a drug empire to bother with sectarianism anymore, nevermind protect their country

>>31582815
A load of shite.

>>31582868
What part of Boston are you from?

>>31582073
Potato thieves.

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>>31582882
I'm from Lurgan in County Armagh not the US.

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>>31582484
The difference is Finland has a history of being pushed around by Russia.

>To answer OP, a military has to scale in a hierarchical order to work. You need a logistics corps before a tank corps. An air force only comes after an army, etc. Ireland is a very young nation, so they have not needed to go through the hierarchical steps necessary. Only look at the Arabs to see what happens when you just throw money at the military and pray to Allah it'll work.

>>31582927
>lurgan
>Only notable things in the past to happen were a drive by shooting and a racist attack

Get off 4chan and go back to stealing benefits

>>31582927
Then why do you care about the irish defence forces?

>yfw if ISIS attacked Ireland they could literally conquer Dublin.

>>31582958
*past month

>>31582700
>Because they are on the extreme end of peacekeeping.
So Ireland does the joke end of peacekeeping, where you sit around doing nothing?

>>31582973
Because they and the Freestate are illegitimate pretenders.

>>31583018

Being flippant proves nothing.

>>31583022
So...who should be running the show over there?

>dis gon b good

>>31583052
Ignore him
He is a butthurt anti treaty faggot

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>>31583052
Continuity Army Council.
RSF , Na Fianna and the Cumann na mBan are aligned to them.

>>31583120
And mass murdering terrorists are more legitimate than a democratically elected government because...?

>>31583071
Freestate traitor.

>>31583139
You're British, you know that right?

Doesn't that make YOU the traitor?

>>31583120
Because they re the direct descendants of the 1920's Irish Republican Army that fought for the 32 county republic.
Not the sellouts that divided our nation.

>>31583137
Because they re the direct descendants of the 1920's Irish Republican Army that fought for the 32 county republic proclaimed in 1916.
Not the sellouts that divided our nation.

>>31583234
But it isn't YOUR nation at all. You're from another country entirely.

>>31583240
Because I'm from the British occupied 6 counties?

>>31583137
Because mass murder is more fucking fun than stupid voting.

>>31583308
Don't forgot collaborating with the Nazis and accepting aid from Islamist terrorist and Gaddafi.

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>>31581156
Ireland VS New Zealand

Who wins?

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>>31582260
>>31582898
WTF, I like Ireland now.

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>>31581156
>Irish armed

The had the snazziest uniforms despite sitting out WWII (as a national force, plenty of Individual Irish volunteered to fought with the British).

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>>31584792

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>>31584802

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>>31584090
Ireland has two operational brigades vs NZ's one, but New Zealand has frigates and whatever the fuck the Canterbury is meant to be.

New Zealand has more LAVs than Ireland has APCs, but QAMR is the only unit in the NZ Army that uses them. Most of them are sitting in hangers.

Iirc, Irish infantry is mechanized, whereas 1 RNZIR and 2/1 RNZIR -and the three TF battalions- are just light infantry for now (so they can maintain a high level of light infantry skills).

Ireland would probably win but it isn't much of a stretch to see New Zealand forming another brigade considering how many LAVs and 105mms it has just chilling. Plus TRADOC is disproportionately large.

>>31584802
Ok, cavalry corporal and artillery volunteer force looks fly, but I presume you mean "snazziest ALLIED uniforms" - the Jerries were style supreme.

>>31581156
Ireland has a tiny GDP and the fact that they got the good old British military umbrella means that they can slack off on their defense and still be safe from the soviets.

>>31582754

Super Tucano is just fine, and its objectively inferior to the Mustang in performance.

>>31581349
>How do they defend their territory?
There's nothing worth taking in Ireland.

>>31582568
>Say Russia decides that its easier to conduct those test flight over Britain by going through Irish airspace.
That makes as much sense as trying to invade the United States of America by going through Argentina.

>6 1980s manpads
irish nationals are cucks.
they're just pawns and seat fillers in any organization with other european nations.
step it up fatherland or you're just going to be a slave state forever.

>>31582395
You don't need a gun, you have the Police.

>>31581156

Because Ireland doesnt start shit and doesnt have an insatiable appetite for oil?

>>31581156
The Irish Government's permanent stance of neutrality in wars.
It's proximity to the UK
It's relationship with the US
The fact that the existential threats to Ireland are better combated by intelligence than military means
A lack of military obligations (Non-NATO military member, PfP only)
Size. Ireland is fucking tiny, it doesn't have vast natural resources, and it doesn't have any hard targets.

Also, the Irish Army Rangers are pretty dope, from what I understand/little I can find on them.

Seriously, as an American of Irish decent (Who can claim Irish citizenship at the flip of a switch), I've considered immigrating to Ireland for the tech industry there, because holy shit is it good, but I also feel that if I immigrated I would absolutely serve in my new country's military. And I can't find any reason to serve in Ireland's military.

>>31584839
I would think that the kiwis would be better trained, and more experienced. Didn't they have grunts and SAS in Iraq and Afghanistan?

>>31587240
>It's
Learn your own fucking language.

>>31587346
yes

the irish don't even train with live ammunition. their rangers are a bit of a joke

>>31582717
Greece is right next to Turkey, the middle east and the shitshow in North Africa. Not a comparable situation.

Ireland is sat right next to 2 nuclear capable, blue water navies with whom it has good relations, one of said countries has a large Irish population and allows Irish people to join it's military. There is another nuclear capable, blue water Navy across the Atlantic with a population of Irish or people of Irish heritage.

Basically, for 2 of the most powerful nations on the planet, it would be politically damaging to allow an attack on Ireland.

>>31584923

there is, but it's not a problem for the Irish. If you take Ireland, you have a bridgehead to northern Ireland and a great staging area for invading Great Britain. However, that isn't Ireland's problem so there's no reason to spend money making it so it can't happen.

>>31584923
What about all the potatoes?

>>31587346
Kiwi grunt reporting in, can confirm we were in Afghan. Our PRT was in Bamiyan with the Hungarians as far as long term deployments go, our SAS was based in Kabul attached to some sort of QRF within ISAF. As for Iraq I believe we only had engineers there in 2003 but now have the SAS deployed training Iraqis and hopefully slotting Abu Hajaar and his friends on the sly

>>31587346
A good deal of the NCO's and officers from the NZDF have been deployed to Afghan, including naval personnel as well strangely. Went to Afghan but also got dished out a token peacekeeping deployment to Kosovo as well. Didn't do much apart from being one of the two kiwis in Kosovo...

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>>31582666

> A handful of prop planes with machine guns doesn't count as air support in 2016.

I think the AC-130 wants a word with you about that.

>>31588880

Sounds like there were manpower issues in Afghan at times for some nations. RAF Regiment (airfield security force) wound up getting sent out a lot doing tsuff that was expected of the army, not of them.

They get the same base training so they could do it, they just weren't expecting to!

>>31581971
If you think Ireland, a rich country as you say, should defend itself, maybe you fucking Brits and almost the entire EU should stop relying on the US for military and spend some on their own military. Ireland does its best, we are not leeching a damn thing.

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>>31582073
Potato blight carried by winds from the Mediterranean.

>>31581156
What could Ireland fully field anyway if they wanted to?

>>31581971
Ireland has a pretty good navy desu. They have a fair few frigates and destroyers.

>>31582768
Oh fuck off Boston Boy

>>31590807
1% of the British military if assigned to destroying the Irish defense forces would wipe out all Irish armed forces in a day. Considering past Irish conflicts with the British it might be in Ireland's interest to you know buy missiles and aircraft. Actually attempting to present a defensible position is better than wasting efforts on a notably inferior position.

>>31584858
Nazi uniforms jave far too much psssh nuthin personell kid skulls, daggers, and dark grey colours to be stylish. Ireland takes their general sort of theme and makes it more palatable with a nicer colour scheme and better insignia

The amount of salt and bitterness in this thread against the Irish is hilarious.

>>31584858
Well they weren't part of the Allies, so it would be snazziest neutral uniform.

>>31589045
The AC-130 isn't a training prop with 2 Machine guns on it.

>>31589242
The UK has one of the largest military budgets on Earth and doesn't leech off anybody.

>>31590807
No it doesn't. The Irish navy consists of half a dozen small coastal patrol craft.

>>31590172
At most, one mechanised infantry brigade. There's no way both can deploy at the same time.

>>31586973
except the police wouldnt hesistate to scarf down a donut before coming to your residence 20min. after the 911call, whereas the UK would unillateraly defend ireland without a moments hesitation in the face of invasion or military provacation by the russians (which, lets face it, is such a hypothetical and outlandish possibility)

>>31581156
I was considering typing out a rant but naw.

The Irish Army is 7,500 men organised into two brigades. Given that territorial defense beyond a Paramilitary threat is not required they've essentially become like New Zealand and are organised based on the needs of overseas missions. I recommend reading about the Battle of Jadotville, the Battle of the Tunnel, or the Battle of At-Tiri for a sense of what they do overseas. If anyone's curious I can give a summary of those battles.

The Air Corps is probably the red headed step child of the Defense Forces but is slowly finding some kind of usefulness in the world. The Department of Defense is examining jets in 2018 but the current situation is that they would require a new air base, jet trainers or some kind of pilot training scheme, jets, munitions, radar, etc etc. Currently we're at the radar stage of that and we'll see where that goes. If SHTF tomorrow the RAF is to police Irish Airspace.

The Navy is made up of NINE high tonnage Patrol Boats. I'm not sure if you realise it but sailing in the Atlantic is not exactly smooth and thus requires these ships to be 1,000+ tonnes. There's currently a plan to build a frigate kind of thing for overseas combat missions.

To answer your final question, the reason why the Irish Defense Forces is so small is because of several things:

1. A policy of Non-Beligerancy sometimes quoted as Neutrality. It's not, we don't have that and we could join NATO tomorrow if there was the will for it.

2. A running down of the Defense Forces between 1945-1980. The Defense Forces basically got no funding as the governments of that time were defined by corruption scandals.

3. The DF's role internationally. Simply put, any country that breaks through Western Europe and invades Ireland was not a country we could have defeated to begin with.

I'll answer questions if you have them

>>31591620
I don't see that. Just a general feeling that the Irish should uncuck themselves.

>>31581156
What threats does Ireland face?
1) Irish nationalist or Loyalist extremists
2) Islamic extremists
3) Armed, organised criminality (a problem in Ireland)
4) possible Russian air/sea incursions

All it needs in an internal security force and a few decent interceptors and a couple of frigates with reasonable ASW capability.

>>31582768
Fuck off back to Noo Yawk, you plastic paddy cunt..

>>31593566
>3. The DF's role internationally. Simply put, any country that breaks through Western Europe and invades Ireland was not a country we could have defeated to begin with.

A very defeatist attitude and a cop-out. You should make a contribution to preventing that scenario, even if modest. All other European countries do. Ireland relies on the free flow of oil and international trade just as much as anyone else yet does not defend it in any way, just benefits from it while acting as a tax haven for Apple & co.

>>31593752
Well currently with the EU battlegroups the Army does contribute a battalion to collective European Defense. Same goes for their ocean patrols.

NATO is currently out of the question as the Irish public sees it as an aggressive force rather than defensive agreement

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>>31581373
>>31581439
>>31581778
>>31582395
>1590807

These. There are probably more Irish soldiers in the british army than are in the irish army, fucking lost count of the numbers of Tatos i've served with currently have two in the platoon inn addition to two ulstermen.

>>31582768
>>31582868
>>31582927
>>31583120
>>31583234

Lol. I served in NI.
> Replublicans get loyalists all Riled up.
> Riots start
> IRA restarts and had been dead for years
> British army is deployed to stop Loyalists undertaking some Ethnic cleansing. (which they would have done quite easily)
> IRA claims british imperialism
> Reminder that Ireland was British When we had an empire
> reminder that IRA are nazi sympathisers and gaddaffi lovers
> There is no actual evidence Cromwell did anything to the irish
> The irish famine was caused by the irish for being too reliant on potatos

You have been brainwashed.

LOL even Portugal has armed forces vastly more powerful than Ireland's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Armed_Forces

>>31593865
>reminder that IRA are nazi sympathisers and gaddaffi lovers

Aren't the IRA revolutionary communists? I wonder if they like to talk about that when they go rattling their collecting tins in Boston.

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>>31593942
Thats INLA, IRA are hardcore facists.

Some loyalists are slightly facist too.

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>>31594011
The INLA are "revolutionary socialist".
The IRA can be a mixed bag of ideas.

>>31594130
Yeah commies as stated in the correction.

50% of the replublican groups are now kids with knives.

the other half are fucking around taking pics of themselves in their mums garden with BB guns and balaclavas

>>31593865
>see two people getting in a fight
>heroically swoop in to take the smaller one and hold his arms back while the bigger one kicks him in the stomach
>be confused when people think you're the bad guy

>>31594204
> Loyalist activity really wasn't a thing until 1973, 3 years into the troubles...
Enemy of my enemy is my friend after 1973

>>31581156
russia is not a neigbour

>>31594256
Brah, the loyalist campaign started in 1966.

They were the ones crashing NICRA rallies to beat the shit out of everyone, bombing power plants to blame it on the IRA, and generally causing shit.

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>>31594162
No Modern republican groups are still quite capable.

>>31594333
"Tato" class spud guns.

>>31582395
>>31586973
Except they do have a gun. There a fucking picture of it in the OP.

The top literally just went from "Why does Ireland have a small armed forces" to "Ireland has no armed forces". How the fuck did this happen?