Civilian Ability to Fight

>>31562222
How is body armor a meme? It stops bullets

>is x a meme
fuck off

>>31562222
Soldiers aren't superhuman

>>31562222
>Tue
Nice quads.

Also, most infantrymen are undertrained and arent much more efficient than a regular joe since training nowadays is on the backburner for no rape classes and where the fire exit is.

My personal mantra with body armor is its most useful in urban environments cause lets face it, most of you fags are too un/fit/ to run or move with armor for any relevant distance. So youre better off with a ranger handbook and a chest rig.

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>>31562401
>who even needs a gun when you have protection

>>31562222
>is (fill in the blank) a meme?
Can we just make this an auto-ban phrase, please?

>>31562222
It's more of a mindset, there are a lot of civilians that can hit a target with a gun, what makes trained soldiers superior, because yes we are, is the experience working as a team and maintaining more of a stable mindset under pressure.

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>>31562547
>Those quads tho
>>31562222

>>31562611
this. the training isn't so much about marksmanship, it's about working as a team and using all that firepower in a coordinated way. civvies aren't very good at teamwork and coordination.

shoot move communicate kill HOOOAHHHHHHHH *gargles cum*

>>31562757
>Implying half of the units dont succumb to the "too many chiefs, not enough indians" mentality.

t. 11B

>>31562222
>voodoo combat magic

Its called logistics.

Soldiers are part of an army, which means squad tactics, and the support of the entire US government and military industrial network.

A civvie in a SHTF scenario cannot go down to an ASP and get as much ammo as he can carry whenever he needs it.

They wont have medivac.

They wont have aircraft dropping off food regularly to keep them supplied.

Not that civvies cant fight, but they aint doing it on the same strategic levels that a professional armed force can. Its the boring shit like logistics that makes military more effective than an equally physically capable civilian.

>>31562222
I don't know what you are trying to ask with your first question, brotato.

As for the second, did you think body armor doesn't work unless you're in the military? Its body armor numbnuts. Its heavy and annoying if you arent used to it but it stops bullets real good.

Soldiers are fucking morons by and large. You ever see a group of them together and its like HS guys, even NCOs. Especially 11b guys. They're tards. Their main advantage is logistics and familiarity with moving as a unit in combat. Also CAS.

>>31563266
That doesn't mean a civvie can't be just as effective, he just can't do it the same way.

We've been stuck for +10 years fighting illiterate mudfarmers in Afghanistan. They have no medivac. They have no aircraft dropping off food regularly. But an irregular doesn't need these things. He can just take potshots one day, and blend in with noncombatants the next.

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>>31562222
If the US government tried to take all of our guns (lol) it would be like Vietnam throughout the whole US. Especially the south. History has shown we suck massive dick at fighting guerrilla forces.

But that would never happen since like 80% or more of the US military ARE the gun owners that would be against that type of legislation. So it's all a fantasy really.

The only way they would have a chance of winning is if they had a coalition force against the insurgents. But it would be a very, very bloody war.

>>31563426
Russia has already said they'd support a succession movement. So take into account all the pissed Americans and Ivan lending a hand, it'd be something.

>>31563426
I'd think a coalition would make them LESS likely to win. Much easier to drum up partisan support against foreign troops who would be seen as invaders.

>>31563506
>Libcucks implying that Americans wouldnt want to shoot leafs and britbongs.

Not to mention varying tactics between nations that make international ops difficult without some overarching logistical force like the US coordinating everything.

>>31563560
I know I've always thought those baby-blue helmets looked like fun targets.

>>31563426
Currently the only likely revolt scenario for America is that a bunch of crazy Trump supporters take up arms because he said he couldn't lose unless the election was rigged, which isn't going to have the support of 80% of the military.

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>>31562459
even Fat Man had a G18, gotta shoot at VR-trained faggots somehow

>>31563341
I fought in Afghan. Calling them effective is..... a bit of an overstatement.

We SLAUGHTERED them. For every kill they made we literally made thousands in that war. They are effective in that as long as they dont give up, they know we will eventually leave.

I think the average afghan male is a lot tougher than the average american too.

They only eat maybe once per day, they grew up in a lawless hellhole with no running water or electricity, they have been fighting minor tribal engagements and clan fueds since thier daddy gave them thier first shitty khyber pass knock-off AK at age 13.

They pretty much rape eachother to say hello. Your average afghan male has probably been raped several times, as well as raped several other people.

What im saying is, they have a psychotic disregard for their own lives and a totally different metric for victory. To them 600 dead talibs to kill 4 americans = a victory. Because all those dead are martyrs, so dying is still winning to their fucked up mindset.

I would probly not mind dying either if I grew up there too. Its a terrible place and terrible things basically start at birth and dont stop until you die at 40 or 50.

I aint saying we couldnt adapt a partisan movement, im saying that our populace of numales, hipsters, and various pussies are pretty much going to immediatly surrender and conform.

>>31565090
>I aint saying we couldnt adapt a partisan movement, im saying that our populace of numales, hipsters, and various pussies are pretty much going to immediatly surrender and conform.

Sure alot would puss out but all a partisan movement could depend on is the "silent majority" that would turn after the idea of America or wherever becomes unsustainable. Not to mention all the hippy faggots would get BTFO by the partisan groups tarring and feathering them like the french did to all the women who slept with Wehrmacht troops during WW2.

>>31565290
It would certainly lay a lot of this lame duck shit to rest right quick. I guess overall my point is that due to centuries of rebellion being ingrained into the fabric of our culture it has been romanticized a lot.

It wouldnt be very pleasant. In fact, it would be goddamned horrid really. Lot of hunger, lot of death. It could, and probably eventually will happen. But its not gonna be very pretty for anyone involved.

To be honest most (basic) military training can be summarized as teaching a bunch of people a really simple method of attack, defense, or support so that EVERYONE knows THAT specific method, and will resort to that when shit hits the fan. The rest of it is learning the weapons, basic teamwork skills and fitness.

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>>31565090
>dying is still winning to their fucked up mindset

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>>31562222
i hope body armor isnt a meme

>>31565312
People just don't aren't taught that during the Revolution we lost more than twice as many men to disease as we did combat, and that the Continental Army often couldn't afford to feed or even clothe you. We were an ocean away from Britain at a time where it took weeks or months to travel the Atlantic and had more than twice as many people, almost 50%, in support of the Revolution as we had Loyalists, and it still took damn near 9 years to beat the British.

>>31565447
>chest holster
but why?

>>31565460
i partially agree with this anon. chest holster is a decent idea, but that placement is all fucked up. you have to chicken wing to grab your gun. that holster needs to be more offset from center.

>>31565447
>black gear
>Condor
>chest holster
Is this bait?

>>31563017
>Implying the problem isn't the complete absence of a chief

>>31562291
It slows down bullets and distributes the force around a broad area.. Hopefully it stops before it penetrates your skin.

>>31565090
>numales, hipsters, and various pussies
AKA people who wouldn't revolt in the first place

>>31563426
You suck massive dick at fighting guerrilla forces, because, you leaders suck at political maneuvering and never fully commit to Total War.

>>31562222
A civilian "sniper" is less of a meme than a trained unit of civilians.

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>>31565524
Could such a thing exist?

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>>31565551
Civvies are literally cattle. Soldiers are so much greater than pussy civvies mentally and physically.

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>>31565772
Are you high?

>>31563493
link, proof? I've been looking

>>31565483
I understand condor, but what's wrong with black gear and chest holster?

>>31563266
>>31563341
Both of you are seeing parts of the big picture spot on. Americans do not make the best fighters, assault teams, or even marksmen. But our logistics train is only challanged by fedex and ups......who are sometimes contractors. That said insurgants have different goals, tactics, and standards of victory. Better off using secret police to handle an insurgency and call in troops to sweep and clear strongholds when they form

>>31565772
thank u 4 ur cervix

>>31565479
Unless they are a gunner but yeah not ideal for civie rig

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>>31562222
Yes, civilian operators are a meme. The only operators are trained delta warriors like myself and my tactical squad of elite tier-1 SF

>>31565772
>civvies
>literally cattle
>compared to the soldier who is literally indoctrinated to follow orders without question

>>31565090
>I think the average afghan male is a lot tougher than the average american too.
Absolutely. In a country where most of the people are labourers, you can bet they're stronger on average than fat central, where service based jobs are the norm.

Additionally, the way people are brought up is massively different. In the east, kids are treated as small adults, and they usually work. When I went on holiday years and years ago, my 12 year old cousin was literally babysat by a bunch of 6-8 year old lolis and one shota, it was absurd (and very, very cute). They're (not the lolis specifically, I mean, young people in general) going to be a lot more willing to step up and fight, I think.

China's supposed to be even worse when it comes to this. These people are from a time when man were men and women were also men, a time I fear is long gone in the west.

>and women were also men
But that time is now, on 4chan. wew

>>31562222

Army NG fag, here. Mind if I weigh in?

Obviously, due to a true loyalty to my oath, I would side with civilians.

But aside from that, here's some food for thought:

In most every southern state, about four of the northern states, and almost all western states a majority of the males are sportsmen. I remember thinking in basic and AIT, on multiple occasions:

"Wow, this is a lot like hunting"

There's a lot to be said for knowing how to pick a vantage point out of sight, play the wind, play the weather and make a passable shot on out to even 150, and many can shoot further depending on the region.

Hell, I'm a huge gun guy but my old neighbor was a state and national level three-gunner.

That said, a lot of civilians don't know so much about support, fire support, real cover and concealment, etc... But what would that matter when 30 seconds of good ambush shooting can decimate a fireteam?

A lot of gun-enthusiast civilians are more than qualified for "sniping" and hit-run. This can make for a viable insurgency.

>>31566921
>a time I fear is long gone in the west.
And with good reason, wronggendering a person is a hate crime and sexual assault!

As a civilian, I would just wait you out and watch you do all of your silly tactics. Then when your convoy got near I would touch two wires together.

>>31562222
>Do soldiers know voodoo combat magic that makes them superior individual warfighters than a civvy could ever be?
The average civvy knows shit about guns.
t. civvie

>>31567164
Hilarity ensues

>>31565772
Is that why yall can't win wars now?

>>31562611
Superior ass slapping cock suckers who meed to be told what to do bc yall can't figure shit out on your own.

>>31567041
Also ng and basically agree with this view. Also good luck finding a smart civie shooter who fires one shot and moves to concealment. Area specific hunting camo and a lack of thermal sights (and grunts who know how to work them well) will result in a lot of us fucking off on patrol

I live in Texas, alot of vets come from here. Most vets around here also hate the lying ass govt. Civilians probably learn stuff from their family that was in the service....

Oh yeah, gang members join the military so they can come home and train their buddies also.

The thing that the US military is *really* good at is logistics. The military is amazing at getting beans and bullets out to troops in the field and keep doing this.

An army marches and fights on its stomach and regular meals are more important to morale than anything. Don't believe me? Try to go go a day without eating, and you'll be irritable by the end of the day.

So, if you want to bring the US Military to a screeching halt, you can do this by destroying its supply lines. How do you do that in a civil war inside the US? Keep the meals from getting to the airfields. Destroy roads and train tracks. This is easy to do: there is too much road to defend effectively in the US, and it takes much longer to repair a road than to damage it. Bog them down with destruction of infrastructure and you win.

Bonus points if you destroy the roads leading into cities, because that will lead to food riots and a complete destruction of manufacturing, and given the heavily mechanized nature of the US Military, you bog them down long term. Surrender will come within months.

>>31567594
No farms no food

>>31567681
easier to take out the supply lines going from farms to town, as there's plainly too much farm land in the US for a rebellion to effectively shut it all down.

Much easier to take down the roads instead, especially if you have access to any sort of chemistry equipment. Homemade thermite.

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>>31567681

>>31567708
Someone could shut down a road by parking a tractor or farm equipment in front of it.

>>31567594
In my old OPFOR unit we used to attack FOBs and such with harassing fire during meal times, specifically breakfast. Most people were groggy because lack of sleep and having to drop their plate to return fire only broke their spirits more.

That and Georgians loved slice bread. To the point they would pick it up off the middle of the road. Needless to say we used that against them on X Days and pressure plate IED'd boxes full of bread. Many keks were had.

>>31567594
Along with the psychological warfare component of IEDs, this is another main focus of that style of attack

Not only can you disrupt the convoy by creating a MASCAL incident, you also create a choke point that slows convoy activity in the area and makes the occupying force spend valuable time and resources demining the route

>>31567750
>>31567762

lel

>>31567534
Fort Hood is a lovely example.

>>31562222

If by voodoo magic, you mean the giant logistical machine that supports them, then yes.

Why is everything a meme?

Why are you so God damn retarded?

Why don't you actually kill yourself.

>>31567246

What branch refused you at MEPS?

>>31567406

When you use an ellipses (...) in writing, it generally implies that there is something significant being left open-ended or that there is more to come.

>>31562401
I'm infantry. I just got back from my first deployment. I saw combat.
This is accurate.

>You have a decent chance of surviving a shot anywhere besides your head and torso
>It isn't feasible to properly armor your head
>We have been armoring torsos for a millennium
>In a conflict you have the possibility of being shot
>You can survive anything besides a head shot or likely a torso shot
>Armor will give you a second chance of not dying if you were to take an otherwise fatal shot
>Most people don't want to die (physically or figuratively), which is likely why they're bothering to fight in the first place
>armor isn't a meme if you think you might get shot and want to live

>>31568092
You're assuming survivability with modern medical care. How survivable is a gunshot to the extremities with civil war era care
only basic first aid that one could expect post SHTF, is the difference in survivability now worth the extra weight? The answer is yes, buy armor, especially since survival rates to the torso are much worse without that medical care.

>>31563493

I'll call bullshit on that bullshit, thank you very much.

Would you like a side of bullshit with that bullshit?

>>31567384
former-army friend of mine says thermals can be defeated by making a cloak of camo burlap lined with mylar. Is this bullshit?

>>31567965
I hate Killeen

>>31567725
trailer full of concrete blocks and then take out the tyres.
would slow shit down for a little while atleast.

>>31568086
I have replied many times after that.... faggot

>>31562547
Is kvetching about things you don't like also a meme?

>>31568237
Yup, all kinds of ways to do irresponsible activities. Question is will we here in the USA ever need to do that again at home.

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>>31565090
this guy his the fucking spot

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>>31563493

>>31568251

Yes, but you didn't expound in juxtaposition to the original post.

Faggot.

>>31568364
Thanks professor, I never would have given a fuck about proper shitposting etiquette before you showed me the way. You silly son of a bitch.

>>31566017
>BETA FORCE

kek

>>31568214
1CAV in fun tree man here. Fuck Killeen. All about that ATX.

Back to the topic, as a good indicator of how civvies can potentially have effect in a civil unrest scenario, our unit at NTC lost a battalion within the first 24 hours.

During my stint at opforland I realized it was like this across the board. The US war machine is nothing without shock and awe or massive firepower. Regularly units like 2CR or 3ID would get raped by a few tanks and 113s. It was so embarassing when the fucking Czech were scarier.

What an insurgency should worry about is helichoppers and CAS. Thats where the money was at in taking down units. No air support means joe has to drag his dick through the forest wearing all his bullshit he doesnt need just to get to an OP.

What people dont understand is that a development of novel tactics is what wins conflicts. You try to fight the current war with last war's tactics and you are almost always in for a rude awakening.

>>31568388

Whatever I can do to help, bro.

>>31568432
I concur. Aerial attacks extensively increase advantage of surprise for a force. >>31568443 This commenter definitely can comprehend what I am typing.

>>31565980
>Better off using secret police to handle an insurgency and call in troops to sweep and clear strongholds when they form
God, this sounds so familiar, almost like I've seen it in a movie- oh, wait, no, that's the state of modern America. Guys, I think we've been involved in the second revolution for a while now; and we're the baddies.

>>31568167
Could be honestly. I would want to test it but I can say fiberglass insulation in od sack cloth works against anything man portable except maybe the imager for the javalin

>>31568589
Protip: some phone cameras can see IR illum. Try it on your remote for your TV on the little bulb. You might see it. This is all dependant on whoever is using NVGs to also be using an IR light.

>>31568579
Was wondering when someone would cqtch that one. Also a lot of authoritarian countries serve as beta testers for monitoring software developed by American (and assorted european) companies

>>31567762
Even better, mix fake/pyrotech mines in with the real ones and buffer your killzones wjth a stretch of easily triggered display mines- hell put whole fields of cheap display warheads out there just to mess with drivers until they get complacent and hit a real mine

You have no idea how much a 'black swan' messes with the average Joe's risk aversion metrics

>>31568616
Different spectrum section my man but that is a good test to see if the laundry detergent will make your uniform glow in nvg screens

>>31566921
>But that time is now, on 4chan. wew
Here, it's in reverse - where men are also women.
You must be familiar with concepts such as the feminine penis.

Someone should make a protip/tactics thread. I know its a bit more distant from the weapon part of /k/ but what use are some of these weapons if dudes dont know how to employ them.

In other words, we need a /k/ommando /k/amp

>>31568664
The implications struck me as soon as my eyes started getting near your post, sorry I'm late to the thread.

Me and a friend were discussing how militia units would turn into oorah mres as soon as they started marching and what a reform militia would look like. Honestly, it'd be inverted terror cell structures; every actor crosstrained as much as possible with cell leaders stepping up out of the contingent forces to take on fire missions as they appealed with a fire team or sqyad forming voluntarily around the ad hoc cell leader

I said 'stand alone complex' he said "headless horsemen".

>>31568737
Easy
>no uniform
>no habits
>no personal targets
>no loitering
>fear the sky

>>31568840
Thats a... vast oversimplification. I was meaning more along the lines of small TTPs that could be useful to dudes or basic team tactics. Patrolling and that sort of thing.

You know, so the nagants dont get dropped as often without a shot being fired.

>>31568889
This series has some pretty good basic tips
https://tgace.com/category/tactical-preschool/

>>31568806
Being close(ish) to sleepy hollow I think you can guess my vote. The issue I see there is twofold. One is supplies being only what one has on them as a centralized stash is easily compromised and multiple stashes increases chances for accidental discovery. The second is coordination for longer term objectives. That being said fuck having to hunt for a group of abushers using this approach hiding in plain sight

>>31568952
Well in a situation like that theres always popular support by some group. It wouldnt be hard to set up a thinly veiled support group that can handle logistical support for the shooters.

This isnt even includong foreign backers which probably will send foreign advisors and smuggle in rations and gear for the militias.

>>31568516

I do, indeed, understand.

Fellow milfag, also the guy who was fucking with that guy about grammatical shit. How's CAV life compared to other line unit life?

>>31568991
>>31568952
The prime mover we debated was a cofunded training group, by the members for the members, that worked to spawn lone wolves who struck at targets of opportunity. A militant's garden that knowingly had open gates with a welcome mat for the alphabet soup.

We're trolls at heart so the idea of inducting govvies into a civilian SEAL program that would break them the Durden way gaves us plenty of laughs, but actually founding it from ground zero is proving to be rather difficult.

>>31569130
The Cav is gay and should be abolished. Literally should be disbanded cause of how shitty our brigade combat team is.

But I get off at 1500nand browse /k/ all day on my phone cause no one cares about training anymore and TLs and SLs sit in the office and jerk each other off.

>>31562757

When your battle buddy gets dropped, it becomes a morale issue. Nobody wants to see their comrade's brains all over the inside of their helmet.

>>31569167
What did my dumb ass just stumble into.

>>31569282
That's why you train for casualty events, especially "push forward" casevs.

>>31569217
Sounds like everyone's job. Fuck this is boring. I need to take up skydiving or something, fuck

>>31569344
Dubs and a copy of the Anarchist's Cookbook, that's what.

>>31569217

A self-hating CAV guy? Never thought I'd meet one of those.

>>31569368
I like the poor man's james bond myself.

>>31569368
>Ranger Handbook

FTFY

>>31569167
You're that Republican Anarchist guy from a while back, aren't you?

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>>31563426
>But that would never happen since like 80% or more of the US military ARE the gun owners that would be against that type of legislation.
This:
Remember people soldiers swear an oath to defend the Constitution. If if they decided to make it civilians vs soldiers, civilians might find their numbers bolstered by defecting soldiers

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>>31569217
Sounds like the trannies/faggots/women/lack of funding due to sequestration is having the desired effect on moral, training, readiness, etc.

Ah well. It was a nice civilization while we had it. Down the hatch.

>>31569416
No, but we are aware of him.

>>31569470

When's the last time you scored Poo-swah?

>>31569470
I am disappointed this has happened.

>>31569489
>Poo-swah?
?

>>31569494
Disappointment isn't the word. Of all our old-school default-conservative government institutions -- the one the people still have a lingering faith and trust in -- the regular military was the biggest. The fact that it's being social-engineered to fucking death is not an accident. It is ideologically inspired malice.

If we don't reverse it we are going to get our shit slapped hard within the next decade, and may never recover from it at all.

>>31569525
Notice how all this shit has gone down during a certain person's presidency?

>>31569525

Pussy, bro.

Or are ladyboy buttholes more your thing?

>>31569542
One would have to be blind not to.

Nearly half the country still thinks he is doing a swell job, and is more than willing to anoint another Alinskyite activist as his successor.

I feel like a fucking refugee.

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/opposition-navys-modern-enlisted-ranking-system-surges/

>>31569571
Shit refugees got it good. Give them some money and a gas station and they come running.

>>31569542
Bush certainly wasn't the only cause, Clinton, Bush Sr and Obama all helped too

>>31569637
Nobody knows what you're talking about except you, dude.

>>31569652
Funny how it's the same family names in the white house over and over. I guess i could be like everyone else and just think of something else .

>>31569542

The framework was being set up even before his presidency. Bush's administration didn't have the time to deal with such bullshit and was focused on actual combat effectiveness and efficiency.

I'd say the framework was pushed HARD during Carter's presidency with Reagan and Bush Sr.'s presidency allowed it but didn't push it forward. Ol' slick Willy pushed for feminism along with other bullshit for the military that would eventually be taken even further will Obama's administration and the fucker himself.

Fun fact, if you have a three percenter tattoo or are openly affiliated with them while being in the military, you're on a hit list for either not being able to reenlist or paperwork. They are not allowing three percenters to be recruited by the military anymore either. Yeah, it's getting a little bad and the Gadsden flag is slowly being pushed out. Officers and higher enlisted are unofficially not permitted to have it or wave it.

>>31569666
Shut up satan.

>>31569696
Yeah right. More like a reality TV show or boxing promotion. Kinda like how it already is. And these people want to be my president haha

>>31569666

If you don't know what he's talking about, you ain't as "woke" as you think.

>>31563266
Then what about stealing these things? Making IED's to hit covoys and blow tires out or kill the drivers? What about a group of civvies attacking a compound while one sneaks on and steals a supply truck?

A civvie can easily (that's a subjective term here) mooch off of a logistics supply chain from their government. They just need teamwork and a good common sense.

>>31562222
>>>31567246
>
>What branch refused you at MEPS?
This.

>>31569920
There was one poster from Delaware that failed out of the army for behavioural/failure to adapt issues. Smart guy but a total fuckwit at shutting up to follow orders

>>31569920
Multiple branches gave me free hats and shit and I did pretty well on the pratice ASVAB. I decided i didn't want to join with a bunch of degenerates.

>>31570028
Meh not for everyone and honestly a lot of shit is done to make things harder and dumber than they have to be. As for degenerate..... well some are very much so. Others far from it. What honestly scared me the most was the realization that the dumbest waiver troops (40ish) are not even in the bottom third of iq for the county.

>>31570079
It was funny to see the ones who couldn't even hack it in football and offseason in high school athletics go in and become Marines.

>>31568147
I'm assuming if I get shot in the elbow, I'll probably bleed a lot and either lose the arm from zombies or have some garage surgeon lop it off, but I'll live.

Basic first aid doesn't do fuck for torso shots, so yes, armor.

Why were you disagreeing with me?

>>31570355
Still above potato my man. Grunts can get dumb but there are limits. Check out Wal-Mart just before midnight on the first of the month. They wouldn't pass any of the screens. Also big dumb and strong makes for great ammo bitches when I have a 240

>>31570437
True, I wish I could have seen some of those boys is boot though. It would have made me laugh my ass off.

Oh, and I know about those wally world creatures. I don't know why we help those animals to reproduce.

>>31562222
You can BET YOUR ASS civilians with long ranged weapons would be a fucking nightmare for any occupational force.

Imagine you're minding your own business, you walk up to your buddy, start talking to him, suddenly something warm splashes on you, and you realize your buddy now has a fucking gaping hole in his skull.
And then you go to sleep, you start drifting off to the dreamland, but then you're waken up by alarm, because one of the guards just got his fucking heart exploded by some dickwad with a rifle from a kilometer away.

So then you're completely exhausted put on guard for a couple hours, paranoid that you might be next.

And then you get guard duty in the morning, exhausted, tired, and waiting to get shot.

Don't get me started on mortars.

>>31566017
God why

>>31562547
I was thinking the same thing 2 days ago.

A Major ability of the Modern Civilian is the hilariously easy to cause electronic interference.

If an army is pitted against its own people, this same army will suffer the Same exact consequence as soldiers did during WW1.

Soldiers will be extremely hesistent to attack, with transportation done and over, communication taken out of action I think its easy to see the people taking their own country back within days.

>>31572361
You assume, as I once did, that the lines will be neatly drawn. They won't. The People will consist of every tribe in our once big-tent high-trust culture. The secessionists who want Cascadia or a New Confederacy or a sovereign Texas will be at the throats of people like me who want to save and reboot the Republic, and the people in small towns who have been burnt too many times by strangers of every stripe will become no-go zones for anybody not driving a delivery truck. That's without the hood rats, the Muslims, the radical (and armed) lefties, and all the various state, Federal, and police agencies. It'll be fucking Bloody Kansas on a national scale with modern technology, and anyone who looks forward to it is fucking insane.

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>>31572433
i'd argue that everyone will be at the throats of people like you (pedophiles.)

>>31572468
I'd argue that in the event that S genuinely HTF angry faggots like you are going to get pretty short shrift.

>>31565503
They work some of the time

>>31563426
>>31565519
ROE's ruin everything

>>31568070
/Thread

>le grab sks and go innawoods meme
When will this die? Armies are really good at walking around in the woods. Its not 1860, a swamp is nolonger a death sentence.

>>31567041
>A lot of gun-enthusiast civilians are more than qualified for "sniping" and hit-run. This can make for a viable insurgency.
Too many faggots on /k/ think they're gonna take their AR to the roof of a building and plink loyalists all day and not have ordinance dropped on them.

But getting into shootouts is stupid in the first place and completely unnecessary

The military is a steel link in the copper chain supporting the Fed. Any potential insurgent would be better served by a shitload of thermite and a map of electrical infrastructure.

>>31572433
Objection, anyone who wants restore the Union would give away Casscadia and Free Texas for both the immediate gain of an allied front and the potential for peaceful reintegration after the reconstruction.

>>31562222
>meme
>meme
>meme

anything's a meme if you try hard enough son

>>31573772
Technically, any remotely complex word or idiom is or carries attendant memes- the best part is that the meme intended by the sender of the message is not necessarily the meme(s) that is/are received.

Augmented Reality Is Now

>>31572433
>anyone who looks forward to it is fucking insane

Call me crazy and slap my ass.

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>>31569723
>If you don't know what he's talking about, you ain't as "woke" as you think.
I fucking kek'd, bravo

>>31562222
>Is it true that civilians as snipers during a government collapse are a meme?
Yes, snipers are highly overrated, and you as a civilian are unlikely to have the time and money to get your skills to that level.
>Is body armor a meme if you're not operating with other trained soldiers?
Not necessarily, but if anyone worth a fuck shoots you and realizes that you are not going down, they'll simply switch targets and go for your groin.
>Do soldiers know voodoo combat magic that makes them superior individual warfighters than a civvy could ever be?
No, but they are paid to develop those skills, whereas a civilian needs to put both his time and money into that skillset.

>>31567681
You fuck with farms directly and everyone will be on your ass. Especially the farmers.

>>31574007
>pelvis is one of the best secondary targets to the torso
This is why you should wear a groin plate and faulds

>>31574214
How many of the tacticool kids do that? Most of the plate carrier faggotry on /k/ and other forums focuses on looking cool, rather than effectiveness.

>>31569344
You know that militia thing from the 90s?

It came back, but harder, quieter, angrier, and with more firepower and veterans.

Shit's fucking everywhere.

>>31574248
God, I need to find some space to make a curing press soon.

>>31567406
Spotted the boomer

>>31563664
You just blow in from stupid town? Or is this just low tier bait?

>>31567534
Is that why gang bangers don't aim? They're trying to supress the target they're trying to pull a hit on?

>>31562222
>is x a meme
Please find a nice tall cliff and do a triple backflip off it.

A well aimed bullet to the face will still kill you regardless of if it came from an M-4 or a RemFudd Deerfucker 9001.

The civilians, especially hunters, are going to have home field advantage and are usually much better equipped to not be seen by what they're shooting in their area. The hunters have usually been effectively killing things in one or two shots with their rifles for years. Expect at least several thousand American Simo Hayhas assuming SHTF via war on the homeland happens. I'd be a lot more worried about Elmer and friends than I would be about tacticool folks with their fancy overpriced ARs who do 3-gun all the time.

Civilians won't have the ridiculous logistics capabilities of a military, but working in small groups or alone makes that not near as important. You're not supplying everyone, just yourself and maybe a few friends.

>>31575679
>elmer and friends
Let me tell you a story, anons.

>grampa has a smoothbore 20 gauge
>grampa has slugs
>grampa has new scope
>it's zeroing time!
>fucks my hearing, because he forgot my ears don't turn off
>shot lands 40 yards out and left
>grampa adjusts, fires again
>is on target within three shots
>he's firing at an NRA 20 yard small pistol target
>we're 60 yards out
>puts a a few slugs in the nine and eight ring
>sadly proclaims he can't hit shit with the gun, has a professional zero it.
The fuddiest fudd I know shoots better than much of /k/, and that's with bad equipment.

The man has missed ONE shot on a deer in 25 years. One. And that's between shotgun, rifle, and blackpowder every damn year.

Fudds, for all their hate for the tacticool, grew up in the era where paying kids to empty a brick of .22 into your squirrel problem was fucking normal.


If they want to kill shit, they will do so, and it will be utterly retarded.

>>31567750
Fuckin georgians. They will literally eat a loaf of bread per meal and nothing else.

In afghan youd go to the chow tent thinking "im gonna have me a sandwich."

Hah! Think again, those fuckers ate ALL the bread in about 2 minutes.

We called em groo's (after gru from despicable me.) Cuz theres only 2 kinds of georgian male, ones that look exactly like gru, and ones that look like skinny gru.

Also they werent REALLY eating ALL the bread. They stuff half of it in their shirt and make moonshine out of it. If you earn their trust they might sell you some.

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>>31562222

I'm not current or former military, I have friends who are and I learned to shoot from my father who's former military. However, what I am knowledgeable in is history, I've read my fair share and you'd be amazed what civs are capable of.

Now, in a sustained firefight nine times out of ten the civies would be repelled by professional soldiers. Professional soldiers nearly always have better equipment, better lines of communication, more training and experience working together, and all the benefits of having government backing. Those benefits being air support, artillery, medivac, and armored support.

However, a proper insurgency has a set of victory conditions that do not match with those of conventional forces. This is where casual observers get confused and automatically assume in any given conflict conventional forces should win because of all the advantages list above.

A conventional military tends to focus on territory control and maintenance of a perimeter. This keeps their logistical lines secure and allows them to deploy tactical support such as artillery batteries and helipads from forward operating bases.

An insurgency does not have these things therefore it has no reason to pursue direct territorial dominance. An insurgency wins its war in the mind of its opponent, not the battlefield.

Roadside ambushes of small patrols, IEDs, periodic mortar strikes, logistical espionage, etc, etc. All of these things wear down the opponents mental state, leaving them exhausted, frustrated, and paranoid.

Now that's just a conventional insurgency, and doesn't even take into account all the distinct advantages American insurgents would have, which I will list now.

- Dramatic terrain variety throughout the continental US
- Already hold similar political views to the bulk of the military, who swear an oath to the Constitution before the government
- A massive pool of politically disaffected veterans, many of whom are quite well armed

>>31566921
>China's supposed to be even worse when it comes to this

It's changing, actually. The growing middle class is a lot like our middle class, and despite being more accustomed to discomfort and lower living standards, are less physically capable.

When I was over there, I basically towered over everyone despite being only about 5'10". You could tell right away who were ABC/CBC folks just by their height and build.

I swear, the lack of sunlight and nutrition really fucks with them.

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>>31575941

contd.

- Similar to the veterans there is also a substantial number of disaffected former officers who would comprise the training and leadership corps of any insurgency, and would already be familiar with conventional protocols
- Any Insurgency would likely develop into a global struggle likely bringing in Russia and to a lesser extent China on the side of the rebels
- The US lacks any real manufacturing base at the moment and as such wartime production within the US on a large scale would prove difficult
- The US is demographically splintered to all hell, and any loyalist troops would almost certainly consist largely of minorities while defectors would be largely white, don't underestimate the strength of racial and social cohesion
- There are an abundance of small arms and ammunition in this country that can be pressed into service

Make no mistake, anyone who tells you an insurgency in this country is doomed to failure simply doesn't understand history. The real question would be how much of the military remained loyal to the government.

My biggest concern in terms of waging an effective insurgency would be the overwhelming air superiority of the government. Especially the aircraft carriers, which are essentially immune to any attack by insurgents as they can simply sit off the coasts and carry out airstrikes.

TL;DR An insurgency in the US is by no means impossible, and actually has very decent odds of succeeding if carried out properly.

>>31569571
The problem with the chans is that they are echo chambers, and its easy to just assume everyone is as onboard as we are.
(Im also guessing a lot of /k/ommandos and radical /pol/laks are doing a lot of empty talk at that)

Its pretty easy on here to forget that at any given time atleast half the population are rabid left. Hillary could literally punch a baby, eat a kitten, then desecrate the tomb of the unknown soldier and STILL have support from atleast a hundred million people. (OH WOW, HOW ANTI ESTABLISHMENT AND PROGRESSIVE!)

Fact is, we are a vast minority, even most conservatives think we and our ideas are cancer. The opportunity and cause for revolution has come and gone a dozen times since the last civil war.

Almost happened in the 60's, by hippies believe it or not, and they almost won, had to settle with just controlling the education and media establishments.

Do you think there isnt a reason that our fed has exponentially bloated in power and we now have a secret agency that doesnt have to release its info or what they do for oversight because its "classified."

We have an alphabet soup of secret police who dont answer to anyone and they very busily put down anyone who gets too out of line long before it can come down to guns and fighting.

>>31575904
>tfw you PCS and will never try sweaty Georgian breadshine

The issues I had with Georgians is the fact that they all looked like they were at least 50, were using airshit gear in some chinaman blend of multicam, would constantly try and trade patches for eyepro or gerbers and would get mad when we told them fabric square isnt worth oakleys.

We managed to convince them to echo the word IED for everything and would openly mock them. Their unit had Marine handlers and the Marines fucking hated us so much for encouraging their shit tier behavior.

Events from first rotation with them:
>Bang metal pipe from 0200 til daybreak in front of their camp keeping them awake all night.
>Break into police station where they stayed at while they were on mission. TPed the building, drew dicks on every paper we could find, stepped on sacred wonderbread. Needless to say they wanted blood after that.
>Convinced Croatians to tell us where the Georgian patrols would go. Ended up setting up bribes with froot loops and apple jacks.
>Got into a brawl with them after one Georgian muzzle thumped our NCOIC.

6/10 would troll again.

>>31569822
Totally possible, like I said in some other posts. Im NOT claiming it cant be done, I was simply stating the reason why an organized military can bring more effective force into play.

Because their soldiers dont have to concern themselves with foraging, or repairing their own gear, or anything else except fighting.

Meanwhile your rebel group is spending large amounts of time and accepting lots of risk just gathering, siezing, or pilfering things they need.

On the plus side, and insurrection doesnt have long fragile lines of supply to protect and man. They can focus on trying to break the logistics train.

Tldr:
Military =
Strong: more effective force due to logistics
Weak: protecting and maintaining those logistics

Insurgency:
Strong: no logistics to protect, can easily disrupt enemy logistics.

Weak: less effective force due to scarcity of supplies and formal logistics structures.


In other words an insurrection and a military balance out to almost equal, just with different strengths. Which is why ANY campaign against insurgency will ALWAYS get dragged out into attrition and is basically decided by whoever refuses to give up first.

>>31576072
The problem that I had with georgians was that we had to go into combat with them.

Imagine all that retarded shit + live ammo in a real combat zone.

Jesus, those fuckers..... the shot at EVERYTHING.
Kids, animals, branches or rocks that startled them. Got us in SO much trouble for the civvies they always killed.

YOURE THE REASON THEY WERE SO SHITTY YOU FUCK.

Just kidding, they woulda sucked regardless, but yeah. Marine fag. Was forward deployed with those fuckers. Theyre only SLIGHTLY less dumb than hajis like the ANA.

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>>31576170
>tfw you are indirectly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of civilians because you hate life and train foreign armies to die.

>>31576170
They almost sound like white Arabs.

>>31576226
Hey, I didnt train em
Im just the poor son of a bitch Patrol Leader who had to do satellite patrols with them.
>>31576242
Standy by for greentext.

"The Debacle of operation wonderbread"

>>31576242
>be Marine infantry
>patrol leader
>go outside wire with a company of Georgians
>it quickly becomes clear 1 section (half a platoon) of marines = 1 company of georgians
>they flank west of the village and set up overwatch while we go in and clear
>nothing there, good. House fighting fuckin sucks.
>decide to convert biggest building in the village into a temp PB and push patrols out to the surrounding settlements over the next week
>climb up on top of the building to do patrol leader things (setting up lanes of fire, check out the surroundings, etc etc
>look at georgians on hilltop
>they are sitting around, pulling slices of wonderbread out of thier shirts and eating it
>gross
>look towards larger village to the east
>company sized element of ANA we'd been told about in the area is curious and slowly moving up the valley towards our position.
>probably just want free shit.
>get about 800 meters away
>ANA leader guy waves arms and shouts friendly durka durka
>georgians LOSE. THEIR. SHIT.
>entire company opens fire with EVERYTHING.
>ana company opens fire back
>georgians arent answering my screaming at them over coms, ANA dont have radio
>looks like WW fuckin 3, tracers and fucking rockets are screaming back and forth over our heads across the little village
>local villagers commence to running about flailing limbs and screaming hysterically
>this chaos goes on for 30 minutes
>both sides run out of ammo
>get the georgians on coms
>no ammo (literally ZERO) no casualties
>get them calmed down, go talk to ANA
>no ammo, no casualties
>scratch the op and go back to the FOB.

I watched 30,000 bullets and 12 rockets get expended by these two groups while standing in the crossfire in a blue on blue engagement and literally nobody even got wounded.

Fucking georgians.

Fucking Afghans.

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>>31576376

And there are still people who think Afghanistan is going to not immediately collapse the second we leave.

>mfw

>>31576468
You are making the assumption that there is something left to collapse. The ANA were a joke, and the puppet government we set up was for PR purposes.

The Taliban control everything beyond 800 meters of the ANA Fobs.

>>31576523

Eh, good point.