Why are Nazi weapons so beautiful?

Kraut magic from Atlantis

Thule had blessed them

>>31556455
The Nazi war industry was based on: "Let's build this super cool thing that I personally think will be great for winning the war" (führer principle)

It's a different approach to the US thinking along the lines of: "Our analysis has told us that we need ... amount of firepower in the hands of ... men, the budged is ... dollars, oh, we came to the conclusion the money is better spend on something else."

So, if Nazis were in charge of the military today, They'd be the most likely to build Gundams ...
It's not a bad approach if you want to try new concepts and you might come up with an interesting one that works (like the assault rifle),
but in a country with very limited resources it's not ideal if you intend to win a war ...

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>>31556455
>tfw you will never be able to afford a transferable StG 44

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what

the STG is no more beautiful than a thompson, or even a sten

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Even their "last ditch" guns are beautiful in their own way.

>>31556756
true

the true beauty is the mp40

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>>31556455
Because Third Reich was the pinnacle of uman civilization, after that era everything just went down.

>>31556751
Dude. Just buy more money.

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>>31556911
Human civilization*

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Why has nobody posted this majestic beast??

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>mfw still no word from HMG about their version
>they've had my money since january

>>31556504
>SVT has decent grip

why couldn't they have done the same for the Mosin, fucking commies

>>31556743
thank you for your opinion of what was the nazi war machine.
the aesthetics of weapons are of great importance to some, but are rarely a war winning approch.

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>>31556455
>All weapons are beautiful! Stop weapon shaming me!
Seriously though, Hitler was an artist and a showman. He valued form. To receive military contracts, it's no surprise the later developed weapons looks as well as they performed.

>>31556455
What is German engineering?

>>31557021
Hitler hated the STG 44. The higherups saw the value in the weapon so they had to rename it to the MP44 so Hitler wouldn't notice they were still developing the weapon. Old hitler thought it was butt ugly.

>>31559029
Complex stamped guns

>>31559038
Stamped guns is russian engineering. German engineering is closer to kraut space magic meme.

>>31559038
nice autism
don't try to take everything literally

>>31556986
The Mosin was from 1891. The SVT was from 1940.

>>31559057
>Stamped guns is russian engineering
I dont want to get into autistic arguments but you are wrong.
>>31559074
Thanks im trying

>>31556911

>M48 Patton
>Picture is of an M60

Your credibility just went out of the window.

>>31559076
They updated the design in 1930 though, hence 91/30

>>31556455
Thinking of getting the airshit version

>>31559142
"Updated" not "designed a whole new rifle"

>>31556911
That fucking retard claiming Northrop didn't have an enormous erection for flying wings from his birth

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_N-1M
>First flight 3 July 1940

>>31559209
Changing the grip on the stock doesn't necessitate designing a whole new rifle

>>31556455
What? Now the Kar98k certainly has some lovely appeal visually, but I find the STG-44 looks awkward and clunky as Hell, while the MP40 looks downright ridiculous. Are you kidding me with that massive gap between the magazine and the trigger? Talk about a HUGE waste of space/material! Makes the barrel look tiny and pitiful. G43 is nice however, and MG34 looks alright but that square barrel shroud of the MG42 is sex to the eyes. P38 looks very dignified and professional, but the P08 Luger just looks sickly to me. I mean, I can see why people would think it looks cool, but I just don't like the sickly thin appearance, however that intense grip angle DOES look pretty badass. What else is there... G41 looks odd though does have its own appeal. That bulbous muzzle area to catch expanding gases to work the action gives an oddly cool aspect. You don't see barrels that thick. Yeah it's not the barrel, but it makes the barrel look HUGE! Like... even bigger than a MUSKET barrel!

>>31559346
Yeah but by that time they probably had hundreds of thousands of stocks laying around, waiting.
"Ivan, why make new? We have whole pile"

>>31556882
Seriously, how can people consider the MP40 to be beautiful? There is SO MUCH wasted space between the trigger and the magazine! If they could have moved that trigger section forward to be closer to the magazine, then the recoil spring enclosure portion of the receiver could have been left in the stock, and the firearm could then be MUCH more compact when shoulder-fired!

The MP40 is also, as far as successful WWII SMGs go, one of the most lacking. Normally I see a reasonable rate of fire like 500-700 RPM to be advantageous over a rate of fire of 1000+ RPM due to less felt recoil, better ammo conservation, and the barrel won't heat up as quickly. For an SMG however, we're talking about shoulder-firing pistol ammunition. Not much recoil, the ammo is generally going ot be light so you can carry a lot (don't need to conserve TOO much), and barrel overheating isn't much of a worry. Therefore, I believe an SMG with only 500 RPM is at a disadvantage to an SMG with 700-1000 RPM.

There's also the complete lack of fire selection for semi auto (except the MP41), and there's no manual safety (except a silly notch in the receiver).

The PPSh-41 was cheaper, higher capacity, higher rate of fire (though with semi-auto capability available to slow things down if you wish), had a manual safety, and was also easier to disassemble/clean. Pretty sure they were about the same weight. The PPS-43 was a more simplistic SMG design, but did the job better than the MP40 all while being lighter/cheaper.

tl;dr

I think the MP40 is ugly and isn't as good as most other SMGs of the time.

>>31559426
>"Ivan, why make new? We have whole pile"
And that's why 7.62x54r and .30-06 remained service rifle cartridges way the fuck longer than they probably should have.

>>31559396
>MP40
>massive gap between the trigger and magazine
>waste of space
confirmed for being retarded

>>31556860
What the hell is that!?

>>31556455
Stolen secret Jew technology

>>31559551
Conserving that space makes for a more compact firearm. Look at the Thompson, now imagine if the trigger group was way at the back of the receiver. It'd be obscene. Thankfully, the managed to get it farther forward so that some of that receiver is used as part of the stock. You know how putting the magazine behind the trigger makes a firearm more compact? Same principle.

>lrn2bullpup

>>31559396
>G43
>Good

Pick one.

>>31559568
Volkssturmgewehr. Basically an extra-shitty tube gun in 8x33. Still looks pretty good.

>>31559648
we're talking looks you gommie.
it really wasnt that bad of a gun anyways

>>31559648
We're talking about aesthetics, not functionality. What's wrong with the G43, anyways? I heard it worked well, thanks to copying the SVT-40's gas system! The G41 seemed to operate like shit, however.

>>31559551
MP40
Overall length: 32.8" (with stock extended)
Barrel length: 9.9"
Percentage of length is barrel: 30.2%

M1A1 Thompson
OAL: 32" (W/O Cutts Compensator)
Barrel: 10.5" (W/O Cutts Compensator)
% of length is barrel: 32.8%
(Almost an inch shorter but with over 1/2" longer barrel)

PPSh-41
OAL: 33.2"
Barrel: 10.6"
% of length is barrel: 31.9%
(Nearly 1/2" longer OAL, but nearly 3/4" longer barrel)

(A taste of modern)

MP5A3
OAL: 27.6" (Stock extended)
Barrel: 8.9"
% of length is barrel: 32.2%
(Over 5" shorter OAL, but only 1" shorter barrel)


So who is the retard here? The retard who called someone retarded online, or the retard online who wasted several minutes looking shit up on Wikipedia?... don't answer that...

>>31559765
>it really wasnt that bad of a gun anyways

Yes. Yes it was.

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guns ... yes... nazi ...no

>>31559603
that space is needed for the enormous bolt and bolt travel a blowback like the mp40 requires. The folding stock means moving the trigger group forward doesn't reduce overall length at all.
>muh Thompson
The fixed stock on a Thompson totally negates trying to be as compact as possible

>>31559773
>% of length is barrel: all within 2% of each other
you researched all that just to prove all those ww1 subguns were all pretty damn similar; which was kind of my point to start with

>>31556455
Technology before Ideology.

>>31559779
What was wrong with the G43? I haven't heard of any issues regarding reliability or accuracy.

>>31559804
I know what is IN the space, but if the trigger group had been moved forward then they could have made the overall length smaller with a more standard stock or with an AK-74M style side-folding stock.

As for the Thompson, I'm not a fan of it. It's huge, it's heavy as fuck, it's expensive; the only saving grace is it has a manual safety and it's select fire. That said, if the trigger was further back, then the stock would have to be enlarged otherwise the arm would have to be uncomfortably cramped. Imagine if the pistol grip was where the stock connected to the receiver, meaning the stock had to extend out from the back of the receiver like an AK. With your shooting hand moved that much farther back, a longer stock would allow you to handle the firearm more comfortably. If the grip was as far back as I mentioned, then it would be like handling a little kid's air rifle with a horribly puny stock that isn't fit for a grown adult. It would feel awkward.

>>31559854
The MP40 still has the worst barrel-to-OAL ratio, meaning more wasted space. The other firearms have more barrel for the length. This is because the other firearms don't have as much wasted space, so my point remains, and every time I see an MP40 the FIRST thing that catches my attention every time is all that wasted space, which is why it's an ugly firearm in MY eyes. You guys can think it's gorgeous, but I see it as being poorly designed, and the stats explain why.

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>>31556963
Had mine since December. Dude....I've spoken to them a lot. Like a lot....they have updated the page at the very bottom now it says priority pre-orders shipping at the end of November/early December. It's going to be a while longer. I fucking hate these greasy fucks with every fucking ounce of my being...I really do. I have given them an interest free loan for a year almost to upgrade their shop. I would cancel...I've thought about it many times since fucking june......but God damn it I want this fucking gun. Fuck these fucks though.

>>31559947
My money I mean. Gun is delayed until realistically this december

>>31556743

The Nazi's investment in new innovations and superweapons came from the fact that they didn't have the sheer industrial power to beat the Allies conventionally. They attempted to overcome this deficiency by experimenting with devices that could give them an overwhelming tactical advantage.

>>31556743
if only they led the military then

>>31559947
>I've spoken to them a lot. Like a lot

I've called them, emailed them, PM'd them on facebook and tweeted them, all with no response. I was starting to think they had taken our money and ran with it, but Ian at forgotten weapons reassured me that they had not. He's the only reason I didn't try to get my money back through my credit card company. I haven't seen any updates from them about this gun, other than that shooting video they put on facebook.
They really need to learn to use social media to relieve the fears of their investors.

>>31556938
Alright, Mitt Romney

>>31560031
They answer when I call. At first I called once a month when it was overdue. Now I call once a week. Fuck these guys. They posted nothing and every month they would say later. [email protected]
Is the head of sales. Emailed me after i voiced my concerns via email.
They literally have dropped the ball constantly. But I want this fucking gun. I never should have watched Ian's video and gotten interested.

>>31556962
>>they've had my money since january
>semi auto
>open bolt

have fun trying to hit shit hans

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>>31560085
>I never should have watched Ian's video and gotten interested.

>>31560098
>semi auto
>open bolt
nigga the fg42 fires open bolt only on auto

>>31560098
The FG-42 was closed-bolt in semi-auto and open-bolt in full auto. WAY too complex for my liking, as well as WAY too expensive and over-engineered, but has cool factor coming out the proverbial wazzoo.

>>31559500
Okay good points good points
>PPSH was better in everyway
Opinion discarded

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>Declares war on entire world

>Blames Jews for loss

Why is Germany so bad at war? Like holy shit its just embarrassing at this point

>>31560098
He was talking about the stg44

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>>31559568
VG 1-5

>>31559801
Nigger Ss uniforms are Fashion as fuck,

>>31560145
I didn't say the PPSh-41 was better in every way, though... but to be fair, I DO believe the PPSH-41 is better than the MP40 in at least MOST ways. Let's see, how is it WORSE... well the reliability probably wasn't as good, and the magazines had milled parts which made magazine manufacture more expensive/cumbersome as well as probably less reliable/harder to fix if something went wrong.

The folding stock is DEFINITELY a plus for the MP40 so can't say the PPSh-41 is better than the MP40 in ALL ways. Pretty sure 7.62x25 is lighter than 9x19, but not by much, so while you can carry ABOUT as much ammo on you for both the MP40 and PPSh-41 (if we're takling the stick mags and not drums) for the same weight, the lower fire rate will make the MP40's ammo last longer if a shooter has an itchy trigger finger. I dare say a 71-rnd drum of ammo will weigh more than two 35-rnd mags, and I'm not just talking about that 1 extra round.

Let's see... oh, well the MP40 would of course have less felt recoil but we're still talking about pistol cartridges in shoulder-fired 8-9lb SMGs so I doubt the PPSh-41 is TOO abusive in full auto (for the shooter, that is). If any MP40 fans want to try and point out aspects of the MP40 that's superior to the PPSh-41, then go for it, however i've already covered the sketchy nature of the milled magazines.

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>>31556455

Because you've never seen the insides of a BSA Lewis, or a FM 24..

Or the lovely millwork of a Si-100, or the finish of a M1905 Ross.


If you somehow think the Mp44 is the acme of Germanic gunsmithing, or gun manufacturing as a whole you have a long, long way to go.

Have some Mle 1935A, designed by Charles Petter, who would go on to design the SiG P210.

>>31560374
Is that the firearm France adopted instead of the Hi Power even though the Hi Power was designed around what they were looking for in a new side arm?

>1kg or lighter
>10 round capacity or more
>Lethal at 50m
(or something like that)

>>31560115

The Fg 42 unabashedly stole it's works from the 1913 BSA Lewis.

You are literally looking at a 1940's German rework of a pre WW1 era British made Lewis, when you look at a Fg 42.

>>31560408


Browning's offering was interesting in that it was double action.

So imagine a double action BHP in 7,35 .

The '35 A was actually much more reliable. And it's easy to see why, not slighting Browning in the least, but Petter really did know Browning's works better than Saive, and had a solid grasp on the "KISS " principle.

>>31560429
... I have a hard time believing that the FG-42 is just an altered Lewis Gun.

>>31556455

Because you know what they stood for and what they were used for, a better future for all of us.

When you look at one of those finely crafted machines, you see in it the dreams of a glorious future. And when you look at it, you also see those dreams turn to dust, all human effort futile in the face of the cold machine of globalism. When you touch it, you feel in yourself the collective memory of the titanic struggle over the future of mankind, how good men led by bad men used these weapons to fight other good men led by bad men.

They're a symbol of what might have been. And also, a reminder of what can still be.

>>31560466

Have you fired either, or had either apart?

The Fg 42 is a Lewis action with a coil in lieu of a clockwork mainspring, a gas system "borrowed" from the ZB LMG , a purloined MAS bayonet and a set of Marbles sights.

>>31559346
But it does necessitate changing the way they made stocks.
The guns were mass produced, changing anything about them is a massive headache

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Forgotten gem

>>31559035
I did not know that.
>failed artist then

>>31560197
Hitler was too ambitious, he was doing great, and the blitzkrieg was one of the best military strategies used on unprepared countries, but you don't use that strategy on the largest nation in the world when you've practically taken over an entire continent. Hitler should have struck a truce with England and held the entirety of Europe as Germany rebuilt infrastructure across the continent, established an independent food production, and held off until Nazi Germany was ready to conquer Russia, in spring.

>>31560347
One Positive for the MP40 is that the PPSH-41 ejects through sight picture while the MP40 ejects to the right.

>>31560481

Just change everything and it's exactly the same

>>31559972

No industrial power , yet it took the world to put down a manufacturing country the size of Texas.

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>>31556455
Fictional Nazi weapons are better

>>31559035
>Old hitler thought it was butt ugly.

Wrong. Hitler didn't see a point in the intermediate cartridge it fired. Basically he thought 9x19 for close range, 8x57 for everything else. He saw no use for the 8x33 Kurz ammo.

>>31556986
>Mosin
>fucking commies

Hmm maybe because its a bolt action rifle designed by a backwater empire in the 1880s

>>31564921
I wonder if that uses 7.92x33

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>>31556756
Okay, most of the ww2 guns shared similar blued steel and wood finish aesthetics.

But take it down to knives. Hitler Youth knives, officer knives, and bayonets were far sexier than any other country was making at the time.

I really liked the design on the youth knife. I want a modern non-nazi version of it with a kydex sheath.

>>31564847
>Germany
>Size of Texas
>LaughingSouthernGentlemen.jpg

>>31563469
Oh, PPSh-41 ejects vertically up? Fair point. A positive for the MP40 that I may have forgotten to mention is that the MP40 seems easier to reload than the PPSh-41. Likely a faster/smoother process, I figure. Though that said, it's also an ambidextrous process; the MP40's mag release is on the left side if memory serves so if you like to reload with your shooting hand then you're probably shit out of luck.

>>31566746
Better off going with 7.62x39; infinitely more available, a bit slimmer so the mags aren't as long, and it's also a bit hotter.

>>31566175
Is... is this bait?

>Mosin
>1891 (Not 1880s)
>1891 (Not communist for over 20 years)
>backwater empire (had a smokeless repeating bolt action before America or Britain)

lrn2history

>>31559327
Plans for the flying German wing were before "38 buddy

>>31556756
sten guns make my pee pee go up

>>31559801
Chapman brothers?

>>31569644
>Jack Northrop became involved in innovative all-wing aircraft designs in the late-1920s, with his first Flying Wing being built in the 1928–1930 time period.
get fucked naziboo

>>31570982
Simple, perhaps overly so... but it works. They're also select fire, aren't they? So not only are they lighter than the MP40, but they also have select fire which the MP40 lacks; just the MP41 which didn't see NEARLY as much use. Yup, I think It'd rather a STEN over an MP40, in spite of the awkward magazine placement on the left side of the receiver.

>>31564440

I'll take that as a "no, you have not handled, fired nor had either apart".

I have. .

The Fg 42, and the 1913 BSA made "closed bolt" Lewis are functionally identical actions.

The differences are far fewer than the similarities.

While it is an interesting amalgamation of existing designs, the Fg 42 is nothing revolutionary nor innovative.

>>31560216
StG 44 was closed bolt, the MKB42 was open bolt, the FG42 had a system to use open bolt in FA and closed bolt in semi, which was copied into the M60 only the M60 had no provision to be fired in semiauto

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>>31559801

>>31571279

Both the M60 and the FG 42 are derived from the Lewis/McClean action.
The dual searing was developed by BSA, though was not popular.

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>>31556911
"Ak=StG"
Tht's enought to understand what this pic is

>>31556911

That's fucking hilarious.
Where the hell did you find that collection of dipshittery?

>>31571608
Thank you. So cringey when someone claims the AK is derived from the STG. Displays blatant ignorance to the designs.

>Rotating bolt vs tilting bolt
>Paddle mag release vs push-button mag release
>Removable gas tube vs fixed gas tube
>Safety/fire selector combination vs individual safety and fire selectors
>Entirely different disassembly processes
>Right side ejection vs left side ejection
>Right side bolt vs left side bolt
>Broken stock is ok vs broken stock breaks firearm
>Rock-in mag vs direct-inset mag
>Ambidextrous mag release vs left-side mag release

>Same gun

Utterly ridiculous.

>>31572000
Direct-insert mag*

Also, trips. Cheers to Lt. Gen. Mikhail Kalashnikov in all his wisdom. Like John Moses Browning, he will be dearly missed today, and in future generations.

>>31571608
>>31572000
not the guy that posted it or made it, but I didn't think he was saying the AK was the same as the STG, but more like they served the same purpose. an assault rifle.
i could be wrong though.

>>31571608
>>31572000
AK is mechanically more similar to the Garand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfJLX61OMFA

>>31559115
And not the fact that the V2 killed more people trying to build it than it actually killed when being used as a weapon.

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Make way for the masterrace!

>>31556455
FUCK that's sexy

>>31559035
The StG 44 designation came about after uncle Adolph came around to the idea.

It's true that he was initially against the cartridge, and that he suspended the development of new rifles. He did see the value in the assault rifle concept and he listened to his generals when they asked for more MP44s.

Adolph Hitler was responsible for the weapon being re-designated the MP44 from MP43. Then he renamed it to StG 44 for propaganda reasons. Your facts are all mixed up.

>>31556963
>>31559947
I honestly think anyone dumb to want this bastardized half-assed 'replica' deserves to be ripped off.

>>31560197
This bait is probably as stale as your personality.

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>>31556455

Because beautiful ideologies beget beautiful creations.

>>31559147
I have one, it's a shitheap of pot metal and loose parts, it's going to take a lot of love before it's actually usable.

>>31571608
>>31572000
I think he is referencing the fact that Schmeisser when he was captured supposedly worked on several projects. Although Fervently denied by most The AK. I only see the possibility of collaboration though

>>31576134
The AK was already designed by the time he showed up, his expertise was used to perfect sheet metal stamping of several projects including the AKM. Schmeisser also died before Kalashnikov or the rest of the design bureau returned to Russia.

>>31556911
>wehraboos

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>>31566843
tah dah!! crkt ruger drop point. its on blade hq for 60 bucks...its hitler youth esque minus the huge choil.

>Nazi weapons
>good
pick one. Soviet shit>Kraut garbage

>>31576134
Schmeisser never got around to helping Kalashnikov. He was too busy bitching about fair wages along with the other captured German engineers forced to work at Izhmash.

>>31560450
Exprian kiss

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>>31574057
>you will never conceal carry a Walther p38
Just end it all.

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so boatiful

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>>31574434

>>31574434
Cool senpai. Hope you get ass cancer and die.

>>31560197
I feel like that's missing Hugo Boss or uniform wank

>>31560197
Please. the Yesterday channel constantly slags off Hitler.

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>>31576448
Could come super close though.
Pic related, some /k/ommando made a P1 as similar to a P38k as he could

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>>31582530
>>31576448
2nd pic of it

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>>31582530
Can't even do that, leafs can't carry.

>>31582543
Wasn't there one /k/anadian who actually had a thread about him carrying?

>>31576448
I may or may not have concealed carried an all-matching 1943 Walther P38... only a couple times though. I say may or may not because of reasons, though you can assume I simply have not. Either way, I'll continue. For a mere single-stack 9mm it's a rather wide pistol. I much prefer my M1911A1 or TT-33. If I'm going with a wide pistol; Hi Power, or maybe CZ-75.

Seriously, P38s aren't all that rare. Get one and tuck it away. Just once, to try it out, but I don't think you'll like it. Now, open carrying one in a proper leather Military holster completely with spare mag? That's an entirely different affair, and a more awesome one. To be honest though, original P38s from WWII should be preserved, I think, so maybe try carrying it once just for the fact you can say you have, but get a post-war P1 to carry instead. As said though; it's a wide design for just 8+1. If you're going to pack a wide pistol, may as well go double-stack with at least 13+1. Glock 19 with 15+1 is a common option I hear.

>>31582560
Huh, it wasn't me because it's been pretty much YEARS since I've been on /k/ before now, but that said, I'm not surprised that fellow Canucks have been similarly naughty.

>>31582560
>>31582614
I've seen a bunch of fellow Canadians talk about the fact that they carry in Canada generals. Most of them live in the middle of butt fuck nowhere though.