So what exactly constitutes a "straw purchase"

>>31501200
Bump for interest, i never understood this myself.

My understanding is you a straw purchase is when you buy a gat for somebody that could not own that gat.

So my dad can buy me a raifu at any age, but he couldnt buy me a handgun until i turned 18, and not even then for me bc he lives in a different state if i understand correctly.

No, what your dad did was legal. If you happened to give him $150 and he bought you a $150 rifle that would be a straw purchase.

from what I understand it is
>be unable to get guns for whatever reason
>tell someone who can to buy one for you
>reimburse them for said gun

>>31501200
I'm pretty sure it can't be a straw purchase unless someone is payed to buy a gun for someone, who could otherwise not buy that gun himself legally.

>>31501200
When someone buys a weapon for someone who's not allowed to purchase a firearm. I'm not sure about your case.

>>31501200
Gifts are legal. In Universal Background Check states it is limited to immediate family members (at least here in WA).

Receiving consideration in return for something makes it no longer a gift.

A gift is a gift. Although a straw purchase constitutes buying on behalf of a prohibited person, the Supreme Court has more or less extended that definition to "buying a gun for someone else, unless it is a gift".

And, as your lawyer would tell you, who is going to know unless you tell someone about it? So just shut up you dumb ass nigger.

I think one of the defining factors is the exchange of money between the middle man and the person who ends up with the firearm. Especially if the person who ends up with the rifle can't legally own one in the first place. If the person can legally own it in the first place and there is no exchange of money then I think it's totally chill but take my word with a grain of salt. I just arm chair lawyer-ed real hard.

As I understand it, legal guardians buying guide a for their underage-but-otherwise-legal children is okay. At least I hope it is, because I'm under 21 and just bought a P38 that way. I was upfront with it and the manager said it was fine, so take that as you will. Also okayed it with a state troopers buddy after the fact.

>be you
>can't buy guns because of age
>parent gifts it to you
A-ok.
>be you
>cannot go through a 4473 because of whatever reason
>give money to relative/friend to buy you the weapon, bypassing the need for a 4473
Not ok, anti-dog troops have been dispatched.

You are not prohibited from buying a gun as a gift for someone, though those are the only people who the "straw purchase" crap catches and denies during background checks. This is because the rule applies to the SELLER who must not allow a transfer if he knows the person who is doing the background check and purchasing intends to transfer it to another unknown person. If you walk into a store saying "I'm looking to buy my wife a gun for her birthday," they're not going to sell you one because of that rule. As far as who can be prosecuted, it's someone who is making a purchase for transfer to a prohibited person.
Once the gun is yours, you can do whatever you want with it, but giving it/selling it to a prohibited person could cause you grief.

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>>31501200

It depends on who sells it in your area.

ATF should always execute all dogs, in front of family members.

>>31501271
>>31501262
All it say on the 4473 tho is "are you buy 4 some1 else *shoots dog* random rofl XD"

>>31501313
I've told several gun shop folk I was buying a gun as a gift with no problem. Gifts are fine, the question is actual purchaser not eventual owner. There are counter monkeys with similar reading comprehension problems, but I've found they often respond to calm tones and small words.

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>>31501310
The problem here is that there is no way to see if money was ever or will ever be reimbursed. And wouldn't that just be a private purchase? How long do you need to own the gun for it to be a private purchase or a straw purchase?

What separates a private sale and a straw purchase?

>>31502214
intent

>>31502238
I feel like this water can get murky real fast

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>>31502267
Exactly, how can you prove someone had intent? How about when a guy wants to buy his girlfriend a handgun but she is too afraid or ignorant to do it herself? It is just such a legal grey area that I feel like 99% of straw purchases are completely harmless and go under the radar.

>>31502267
>Buy gat
>Take it out shooting for 100 rounds and decide you don't like it that much and want something else
>sell it off next week
Private sale

>buy gat
>hop in the car and sell it immediately to your buddy who just got out of jail and is a good boi
Straw purchase

If you're worried, just be sure that you take the gun out and shoot it yourself for a little while so you've personally used it.

>my dad bought me a Mosin to be my first rifle.
Buying for gifts to family members and close friends that you have known for years is specifically exempted.
Buying a set of guns and selling them all to some cholo cartel member you met on craigslist before you leave the gunshop is a straw purchase.

>Buy gun
>Take it to range once
>Give away or sell as you see fit

No longer a straw purchase.

>>31501200
Transfers within immediate family members are totally fine.

>>31502298
A lot of the Fast and Furious buyers it was really obvious. People who clearly had no knowledge or interest in guns with cash in hand asking for a very specific item, usually stuff like Barret .50s.

My understanding is that it is only a straw purchase if you buy the gun for someone else and receive something in return. It's totally fine to buy a gun with the intention of giving it as a gift. If you buy it and then someone buys it from you who couldn't pass a background check, you have entered straw purchase territory.

>>31502100
Like so many laws, it's only really enforceable if somebody is doing it a lot and out in the open.

Don't forget if you buy a gun for someone else (say you can get a discount) and you receive reimbursement for it, you can be prosecuted even if you properly transfer the gun to the second person through a FFL afterwards.

>>31501200
Shanaynay isn't Jamal's parent or legal guardian.
>or is she.

Your allowed to gift a firearm to someone as well.

Basically a straw is when your doing it deliberately to circumvent the background check.

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>>31501200
>shoot my doggo

>knowingly purchasing a firearm for a prohibited persons

Considering your dad owns you and the gun and is legally responsible for you until you turn 18, this is a non-issue.
But everything else has been covered.

I think, as well as for those who cannot buy it legally, I'd say anything where the intention is to intentionally hide, obscure, or deceive who the ultimate owner will be would count as a straw purchase.

>six cats, two of which live on an inside/outside basis and behave like doggos
>immune to the doggo shooting menace

TAKE THAT ATF

>>31507309
They can make a special exception for you.

They'll just have you cats legally ruled as dogs so it's ok to shoot them. This is the ATF were talking about.

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>>31501200
buying a gun for someone else who is paying you for the service. Entirely unenforceable besides the off chance your buddy does something retarded (like be a prohibited person arrested with a gun who says "I paid anon to buy it for me") but even then it can only be "proven" by omission or the same level of retarded as writing a personal check with "for gun" in the memo line your bud pays with.

really pain in the ass for FFLs because most potential straw purchases are just ignorance from customers not familiar with the law. Anyone with malicious intent can get around it instantly and most firearms in the ghetto come from 18-21 year old dindus with no adult criminal record straw purchasing for their friends and stolen guns.

Today at work gave me a REEE over something similar
>50 year old guy and 90 year old guy walk up to McBigBoxgunz
>looking for some shotguns to gift grandson/son
>both inspecting/deciding
>old guy has both a CC permit and class 1 FFL and says he's buying them
>very clear about them being gifts up front and answers 11a-f right in seconds
>talk shop about guns and gunsmithing and local gun ranges
>gives me his card for custom gunsmithing/hotbluing business
>based old dude
>background check comes back within 15 seconds as an approval
>go to pay for gun
>younger son/son in law pulls out envelope with like 5 grand in hundreds in it and hands it to old guy
>counts out cash to hand to me for the two shotguns he decided on
>mid process notices that it looks moderately shifty what he's doing
>notices my twitching forehead vein
>sharts out half a brick and quickly explains how they're family, buying it as a gift, his money but doesn't carry wallet/several grand in cash as a 90 year old, etc.
>moderately shifty but sell him the guns
>hoping boss doesn't get told by asset protection that I let a straw purchase go through and I have to explain myself to avoid getting fired
>look up his valid FFL after work and anus unclenches a bit

>>31507800
They'll tie a shoelace to your cat's tail and call it a dog.

>>31502267
I feel like you are an idiot

It is up to a jury of your peers to decide. Typically, the scrutiny you will be under is

>does a reasonable person think
>would a reasonable person believe

>>31507818
>01 FFL
>paying full retail price at at gunstore
>not buying from gunbroker/gunsamerica and getting it shipped straight to his house
>anyone carrying around that amount of cash
yeah, you're fucked. might as well start updating your resume.

>>31501200

It's only a straw purchase if you buy a gun for someone who cannot legally possess one.

A dad buying his teenage kid a rifle to use under his supervision is perfectly legal.

Some guy buying a gun for his felon brother or whatever is a straw purchase.

>>31502298
>Exactly, how can you prove someone had intent?

There are lots of ways. Emails, phone records, text messages, social media accounts, witness statements, etc.

It's not always possible to prove intent, but when you can, it's pretty straightforward. You just find some evidence where your perpetrator flat-out stated what their intent was. Most criminals are pretty stupid. Some might even admit it to the police.

>>31508844
>It's only a straw purchase if you buy a gun for someone who cannot legally possess one.
Wrong.

>>31508844
>It's only a straw purchase if you buy a gun for someone who cannot legally possess one.
no that is not a straw purchase, but that is also illegal

>>31508524
tabletop FFLs still have to go through wholesalers and pay ~75% of list for guns, which takes weeks. even muh gunbroker would take several days
>going to buy gun
>not carrying cash
how do you think people buy guns

>>31501243
>No, what your dad did was legal.
Correct, as he bought it with the intent that it was a gift.

you're talking about a gift purchase, OP. a straw purchase is you give money to x. x buys the gun, then gives it to you.

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>>31501200
All my funs are 2nd hand and paid with cash.

No paper trail here, except maybe a credit card purchase of ammo.....

>>31501200
>ayo tyrell, iz yo girl still clean? her juvy recordz been sealed rite?
>yo das right daquan, why, watchu need mayne?
>can u make yo ho buy me a glock fotay? here $72, and one dime of coke yo
>ayy mayne, she be at her baby daddys house rite now but she comin ova 2morrowz to pick up a dime

>>31509956
>Yo Gringo, got a deal for you
>Take this $15000 and buy me a Barret M82 they got in there
>Keep the change

>Clerk thinks it's shady the way he's buying it, ATF tells him to sell it anyways so they can "track" it
This shit actually happened.

>>31508844
>A dad buying his teenage kid a rifle to use under his supervision is perfectly legal.
It is, because the dad is technically still the owner of the firearm.

>>31502267
James Comey knows your frustration.

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>>31511970
Not necessarily. In states like NH you can gift your child a firearm at any age legally.

>>31501200
it's a straw purchase if you're acting as a go-between for a person who is not legally allowed to OWN firearms (as a minor you were unable to legally BUY firearms, but you are still allowed to own them)

>>31512026
>it's a straw purchase if you're acting as a go-between for a person who is not legally allowed to OWN firearms
Wrong.

>>31501200
Buying a gun as a present for someone is legal. Buying it for them to avoid having them fill out the paperwork is illegal.

It's acceptable to buy a gun with the intent of giving it as a gift. It's all about intent, if your intent is to circumvent the background check it's considered a straw purchase. So if you gave your dad money to buy a gun for you it would be a straw sale, but if he spends his money with the intent of giving you the rifle it's fine. I'll tell you a secret though, when I worked at a range/store we never cared about dads buying their sons guns, we cared when it was obviously a girlfriend or friend buying a criminal a gun.

The straw purchase law is only ever really enforced if the guy you gave the gun to goes off and commits a crime with it.

There is literally no other way for anybody to find out about it.

>>31512006
I really hope Dugan gets better. MS sucks

>>31502267
Welcome to the world of gun laws.

>>31513980
Is that confirmed for why he stopped making his show?
Okay, I have my own question on straw purchases. What about rifles bought through the CMP? If you buy some with the intent to sell. Is that illegal?

>>31508461
I laughed way harder than I should have at that

So what about this scenario anons

Wifey wants a gun, goes and handles a bunch of guns, figures out what she wants, does paperwork & I pay for it with my credit card, is that considered a gift (cool) or a straw purchase (bad)?

>>31514540
Shes your wife, your property is hers and vice versa

>>31514540
As you're married I'd call that just a normal "married couple" purchase.