Shotgun vs AR

>>31481001
>I need help picking between a stockless shotgun, 20 gauge, and an AR
K Y Esss

>>31481028
quality post my friend

>>31481001
If it were a 12ga I'd say get that. A 12 ga Mossberg 500 is a better investment than a chinese AR.

Get neither. Stuff the money under your mattress and save more.

>>31481001
if you are poor and its ally your budget allows buy the shotgun
as for stock vs no stock go to a store they should sell both versions and the price should be the same
i dont know who told you you could get an ar for 400 but they are lying realistically you are looking at a minimum of 500 for a complete gun with a sight and 1 mag
even if its fucking ptac it will be roughly 500 to get a gun in shootable condition

get what tickles your peepee more. because either is fine.

>>31481055
http://palmettostatearmory.com/review/product/list/id/20572/category/313/
This is the AR im thinking of.
>>31481045
Any suggestions for other guns?

>>31481001
>a pistol/revolver is a tad expensive
shit loads of no good options in the $350 range
>20 guage
why
>400 dollar AR kit
how

>>31481080
PSA Freedom line isn't the greatest, but at least it's not PTAC. Personally I'd recommend waiting for a Premium kit to go on sale, but
>election year

>>31481001
AR banned by name in the county of Cook

>>31481107
fug

>>31481080
ok thats $420 you are still missing a receiver($50-100), a magazine($9), and some way to actually aim the thing be it a $30 amazon airsoft rear sight or some type of optic or scope
anyways it will cost over 500 bucks before getting something usable

>>31481139
Shit, didn't think about that. Any other suggestions for guns, or should I sit on my money and keep saving?

>>31481159
if you want an ar expect to spend a minimum of 600. you wont be happy with just 1 mag
if you need the gun now pumpshotgun. if you can afford to wait and save ar. though waiting and saving might not be enough with the election around the corner.

>>31481159
You can get some decent handguns or a used shotgun at that price range and it sounds like ars aren't going to happen where you live.

If you do get a shotgun get one with a stock. If you actually get out and shoot it you will appreciate the hell out of having one.

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Get an AR and sell it during election panic.

>>31481102
>shit loads of no good options in the $350 range
>implying there aren't an assload of old j frames (or similar) for sub 400.

>>31481001
You can have an excellent shotgun for $3-400. I cannot say the same thing about any AR at that price. If you get the shotgun pictured you can add a stock to it later and save yourself money over buying a new one.

Ammo availability? 20 ga is pretty available and doesn't go through nauseating price hikes. You can choose from a variety of loads but you will want the #4 buck or similar for HD.

>>31481198
Shit I forgot about the election panic.
>>31481202
Any good handguns you have in mind? The ones I've been looking at are above my budget, and also the 72 hour waiting period is a pain in the ass here.

never buy a shotgun without a good stock

If you can save up the money, try and save like $600 for an AR. At that price you can get a chrap stxore model or a cheap build.

If you cant save, just get a shotgun. And stop being a puss and get a 12 gauge. I 'd also say get a actual stock.

>>31481233
Not who you were asking, but the Walther PPX is pretty inexpensive and pretty decent. Never had any issues with mine anyway.

>>31481226
was meant to type "no frills" or "good" and somehow fucked up like a retard

>>31481421
>$600
just save up and buy a BCM upper, strap it on a basic complete lower... that should cost around $900 total. You'll have a top-notch AR that doesn't require a lot of assembly or extra shit.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/ar-15-05/lowers.html

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-14-5-Mid-Length-ENHANCED-Light-Weight-U-p/bcm-urg-mid-14bfh-elw-kmr13.htm

>>31481514
and if you can't afford that, just get a shotgun, but make sure it has a stock.

>>31481514
http://www.primaryarms.com/stlc200-sbs/p/stlc200-sbs/

another link

>>31481532
Thanks for all the help guys. Does a Mossy in 12 guage sound good? This one sounds like a good deal.
https://www.gunsamerica.com/909068567/Mossberg-Model-500-3-In-1-12GA-Shotgun.htm

>>31481599
that should do the trick the price is standard.
have you actually gone to any stores? you might find a deal on a used rack

>>31481629
To be honest, I've only gotten into guns quite recently. I don't know of too many stores in Cook County, but some research and driving around should fix that. I've just been looking online so far.

>>31481080
Maverick 88 (cheapo mossberg 500) $250
IAC hawk 982 ( chink copy of Remington 870) $225
Used mossberg 500 $275-300
Used Remington 870 police or wingmaster (cut barrel down). $300-400

It doesn't get much cheaper for HD than a shotty. You can typically find mossberg 500 combos that come with two barrels. One with an 18.5 and 26 set would cover hd, range, and skeet. They typically run around 375 new. Just don't get a new production 870 express. Remington QC has been garbage for the last 8 years or so.

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>>31481225
How do you like that style of grip vs something like pic related?

>>31481629
>>31481677

>mossy
>shotty

Pleasey killey yourselvsey

>>31481701
Quality pussy my friend

>>31481738
Fuck I meant post

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>>31481701
Kaysey friendo :^)

So you have $500 dollars. You have 2 options.
1. Get an AK
2. Start an MLP collection, because thats better than falling for the AR meme. Both are toys but MLP dolls are twice as functional as any AR.

>>31481679
I've said it three times now, but don't bother with that style.
https://www.gunsamerica.com/924088020/Maverick-Arms-M88-Special-Purpose-Pump-shotgun-12G-by-Mossberg-New-in-Box.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6EZVFEC228

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr9_SYMmEmY

>>31481001
just get a mossy. 12G is even more available than 5.56 or .223 and its cheaper

>>31481787
>Cook County
>AK
Choose one

>>31481233
>any good handgun in my price range.
A few.

Ruger SR9E and the S&W SD9VE are pretty alright, and will run just over 300.
If buying foreign doesnt bother you, I would recommend a Canik TP9, I have the SA variant and it has been very good to me. The only problem I had with it was with Perfecta ammo where it wouldn't return to battery, but the problem has since corrected itself and has shot everything else fine. Trigger on it is honestly imho the best of the 3, excellent short reset and not much creep.

>>31481001
Get the AR. You can do a lot more with a rifle than a shotgun.

>>31481001
you don't really need a stock for HD m8

>>31481859
I also want to shoot it at the range m8

For a noob, if there's a Cabela's nearby, I'd recommend stopping there. They have decent used gun selection and usually gun racks where you handle a few different ones.

>>31481894
if you buy a gun without a stock you will spend a fuck load of time at the range learning to shoot it. or you could just get a stock and have it point naturally.
buy something with a stock.

>>31481859
bait

>>31481924
support your claim

>>31481915
thanks for the non bait response

Not OP but in the pretty much in the exact same boat as he is.

What is the ideal Shotgun barrel length for Home defense and some range fun and occasional robust vermin removal? I'm not as familiar with how shotgun barrel length effects things as with rifles.

>>31481804
>I've said it three times now, but don't bother with that style.

Yeah, yeah. Get one with a stock. Too late, I have the Mossberg riot gun. Seems to work just fine at any range I could reasonably call home defense. And I can fire 3 inch #4 buckshot all day without discomfort. But I see people retrofitting a Raptor grip on these and I was wondering if it was a step up or backwards.

The idea behind the riot gun style which appealed to me was the shortest legal weapon that I wouldn't snag on something running down a dark hallway. In close quarters, I'm not likely to shoulder a weapon for better aim, so no stock.

>>31482034
>I was wondering if it was a step up or backwards.
its a step sideways
compared to a pgo its sightly better to shoot but the whole point of removing the stock is to make it "short"
raptor grips add length

>>31481001
>I've decided a pistol/revolver is a tad expensive for me

If those are too expensive, then so is an AR.

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>>31481001
>No stock
>PGO shotgun

>>31482132
Wow great argument fagtron you sure convinced me with those hot opinions

>>31481102
I can attest to the quality of that kit

Shot it bone dry to sight it in and it hasn't even jammed or hung up once

>>31481679
I have one on an 18.5in Mav 88 that I use ONLY for shooting trash in the stripmines. It's fun and more comfy for shooting from the hip than a normal pistol grip and even one-handing with birdshot. That said, it's also USELESS for any other application

TL;DR
>fun gun? go for it!
>serious/HD gun? nope.

>>31481105
>at least it's not PTAC
there's nothing wrong with PTAC, they just had some QC issues in the past

>>31481787
>AR meme
(You)

>>31482176
What use does a PGO shotgun have if you aren't using it for door breaching? It's more compact than a shotgun with a stock, but that's not really going to come in handy unless you and your wife and your wife's son are slicing the pie inside your 80x60 trailer with 3' wide hallways, and even then you'd be better suited with an AR, not to mention that the recoil is going to suck. It's fine as a novelty gun just to have one, but as a first gun it's shit and he'd be better suited with an AR or a cheaper Maverick 88 with stock.

Mossberg 500 is quality but I would save some more and get an AR because shotguns will always be cheap.

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>>31481937
you lose a great amount of stability and balance
using a pump-action without a buttstock (even a softer-shooting 20ga).

the greater degree of balance one has over a gun with a standard stock aids in every aspect of sight alignment, recoil management, and stability (when shooting from behind concealment/cover). videos of the awkward aiming and difficult recoil-management associated with stockless shotguns (as well as stockless krink aks, for example) abound online.

a shotgun with a common buttstock and 18", or shorter, barrel is not difficult to manipulate around indoor corners.


tldr
the slight degree of maneuverability the lack of a buttstock adds becomes, essentially, arbitrary due to
-more difficult sight alignment
-more difficult recoil management
>pic my 500

>>31481001
Unless you plan on leaving madigan land soon I'd go for the Mossberg, SKS are cook county compliant too.

>>31482845
SKS you say? I had completely forgotten about those! I'll look into them.

PGO shotguns are pretty shite. If you reeeeeeally want one and just have to have it, buy a folding stock and pop that on your shotgun. That way at least it'll have some goddamn utility.

>>31482942
dont unless you find a sks for a hell of a deal you are better off saving money and building an ar

>>31482034
Birdshead grip is miles better than traditional pistol grip.

The trick is to hold the gun like you're trying to "stretch" it. Push forward with your front hand and pull back with the rear, then sight down the barrel life you would with a stock. This sends the grip down with each shot instead of back into your teeth.

The grip angle doesn't beat the shit out of your hand and wrist, and if you use it like I stated above (which btw is the technique developed by the US Marshals with their Witness Protection shotguns in this style) you can get surprisingly precise. I have a good time hitting clays with my birdshead sawed-off at the range, and it's pretty funny watching fudds with expensive o/u's get butthurt when you outshoot them.

That said, one with a traditional stock is miles better in every category except portability and concealability.

>>31483042
true true ill keep it in mind

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>>31481679
I've used both and I like the birdshead style grip a lot more than the conventional pistol grip. It points a little more naturally and absorbs recoil better.

That said, neither is well-suited for anything past 20 feet. Even with practice it's hard to hit anything past borderline point blank range. If you do buy a pistol-gripped shotgun, spend a little extra and invest in a stock, too.

>>31484016
what brand is that pistol grip? i like the built in sling swivels

>>31484016
I got the Mossberg 500 Persuader and fired some slugs from it. Barely hit the target. Definitely need to buy a stock eventually.

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>>31482034
>shortest legal weapon that I wouldn't snag on something running down a dark hallway

You do realize that a shotgun with a full stock can be tucked away just as effectively as one with a pistol grip if you just put the stock against your side and under your arm, right?

I've used shotguns with and without stocks. The pistol grip looks really cool but I don't have any delusions about it being practical. Unless it needs to be stashed away somewhere it wouldn't fit with a full stock, a pistol grip on a shotgun gives a lot of drawbacks without many benefits.

>>31484108
It's all about the aesthetics

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>>31484053
It's a Choate. Way more comfy than the standard one that comes on the persuader models.
>>31484101
I traded my buddy the pistol grip and polymer furniture my persuader came with for a wood stock set. I never even shot it stockless until I made that birdshead grip out of a spare stock I had lying around. Pretty inaccurate, but unloading eight 3-inch 00 buck from the hip is pretty goddamn boner inducing.

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>>31484156
I can respect that.