Kill Eugene Stoner.

Famas

>>31433801
A black hole in my heart where the love of my life once lived.

>>31433801
>The M16 never gets adopted
>>what would replace it?
Maybe the weapon it replaced?

Probably some shitty hybrid of the M1 carbine and the M14.
Think Ruger mini-14 but not quite.

>>31433801
they would probraly keep devoloping on the m14

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>>31433934

To hell with you and your dystopian novel, anon.

I think the other variant is more interesting - Mikhail Kalashnikov gets hauled of to a gulag and dies before he can invent the AK-47, so the SKS remains the combloc rifle of choice for at least a decade.

>>31433801
we would have won vietnam

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>>31433980

>>31433801
FN FAL and FNC.

>>31433801

By changing such a massive development, you would have left a permanent mark on military, industrial and personal affairs, causing massive disruptions in what we now know as reality.

>>31433801

Well we probably would have adopted the upgraded M14 instead.
It actually scored better than or equal to the AR-15 in everything except weight, including doing better in an automatic rifle role.
However, the army was desperate for a futuristic space gun, so they adopted the AR anyway, despite what AR fanboys claim.

After Vietnam, we probably would have gone to some piston 5.56 rifle, or maybe even a ~6.5mm rifle, and would be better off in the long run.

>>31433801

Well, M16 was adopted by airforce because Curtis LeMay was hunting buddies with the owner of Fairchild.

Armalite was a division of Fairchild and the prototype bolt actions they built (AR 1-5 IIRC) were passed around by Fairchild higher ups.

So that is how Fairchild execs got Armalites which got into the hands of LeMay by way of them.

Whatever else ArmaLite was developing without Stoner (which probably wasn't much) may have been it.

In my perfect fantasy world we adopted the T48 tho so lets go with that.

>>31433801
>What would replace it?
An inferior choice

>>31434018
>However, the army was desperate for a futuristic space gun, so they adopted the AR anyway, despite what AR fanboys claim.
Is this an alternate reality thread now? Because that's literally the exact opposite of what happened.

>>31433801
>What would replace it?
I don't know the guns involved off-hand but it was part of one of those competition programs to adopt a new service rifle so probably some mostly similar automatic rifle

>>31434296

It's not the opposite at all.
Even when the M14 was adopted, the Army was looking for something better.
The AR-15 only beat the improved M14 in weight, and lost or tied in every other category.
The improved M14 even did better in full auto.

Despite that, the Army tripped over their dicks and were in such a hurry to adopt the AR that they rushed it into service and fucked things up.

>>31433801
The AR-18
>inb4 Stoner designed the AR-18
No, that was Art Miller's gun.

>>31433873
I that feel, anon.

a FAL in 5.56

A really amazing version of the M14. Possibly even an EBR.

>>31433801

FAL/G3 derivative I would guess, or the Garand system would go through some more itterations?

>>31433801
>What would replace it?

Something incredibly inferior.

>>31433801
FN FAL

>>31433801
I'd travel back to steal some of his prototypes, why would I kill him? That's like killing the messiah.

>implying I wouldn't take all modern AR developments with me
>implying I don't present the now modern options to company
>implying I'm not named magical space wizard of gun technology
>implying I wouldn't stash tons of MGs for future me
>implying back in 2016 I'm not rollin rich in AR inventor money and legal MGs

Come on anons try harder.

>>31433801
The FN FNC. Obviously.

>>31434834

This.

They would have just made the m1a better sooner and slapped lighter weight furniture on it.

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Here's how you actually do it OP:

Go back in time and kill one of the following:

Samuel Colt
Eliphalet Remington
John Moses Browning

What changes and how?

>>31433801
A more interesting idea is what would've happened if American doctrine moved away from .30 caliber projectiles after ww2 and adopted the .280 British FAL. What would firearm development be like if there were a true NATO standard rifle?

>>31434956

err, m14. hahaha.

>>31434961
>samuel colt
Browning dies rich instead of penniless.

Nothing else changes.
>JMB
Whole world stuck in 1880's technology still. Mormon Army rises a second time, wipes entire Western world.
>Eli Remington
1858 never gets invented, LeMat revolver prevalent through invention of cartridge revolvers, not much else changes

>>31433801
If I had to guess I'd say something along the lines of the FAL or maybe they'd do something cool with the M1 platform?

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>>31433801
super M1 carbine 2000x: this time it's personal

>>31433978

Well if Kalashnikov kicked the bucket in the mid 1940's, then maybe Korobov's entry (TKB-408 but then improved somwehat to increase reliability) might've won the competition.

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>>31433801

>You will never own an original Fairchild/ArmaLite AR-10.

>>31434346
>improved M14
so a shitty gun that still has the inherent problem of the Garand System?

>>31433801
>go back in time
>kill Eugene Stoner
>simply pass his idea off as my own and sell it to the military but with the kinks worked out
>make a fortune

>>31435818
>neck down .30 carbine to .22
>add tacticool stock and invent a nice dust cover
Now, I'd like to ask how that wouldn't have won the competition.

>>31434009
This. The FAL was originally intended to fire an intermediate cartridge, so that's probably what would have happened.

>>31436242
>reinvent AR15 with a charging handle attached to the bolt, eliminating the need for a forward assist
>use a short stroke gas piston and folding stocks
>make free floated MLOK handguards standard
>chamber it in .300blk
>Flat top upper receiver with an adjustable BUIS
>never fuck with the idea of disposable magazines

Sadly, the perfect AR15 could only have been realized fairly recently.

>>31433978
They'd just credit some other soviet soldier with inventing it then.

>>31433978
Nothing changes. Just a different peasant becomes a walking propaganda poster instead

>>31433934
It probably would have been, if the US had been paying attention during WWII we would have developed our next generation of service rifle on the M1 carbine, not the M1 Garand.

>>31433801
The AK47. English would also be replaced by Russian.

>>31433978
>fixed magazine
>not selecr fire
>at all relevant after WWII
Nope

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>m1 carbine style action

Beefed up M1 Carbine. Eventually the US adopts an European rifle

>>31434834
>>31434956
The biggest problem with the m14 was the 7.62 NATO chambering, thats why it was so fucking heavy, thats why it was nigh useless in full auto, and thats why the ar15 was chosen to replace it. The ak47 was clearly superior to the m14 for all of those same reasons. The m14 was obsolete before the first one was ever made. As soon as the stg44 was invented battle rifles were basically over. The US with our love of the riflemen mythos kept all of NATO a generation behind in small arms technology until we grew up and develoled the 5.56.

>>31434346
You left out the part where an AF general bought a few hundred thousand rifles for his branch without actually getting approval before testing was done.

How about a world without the FAL?

>>31434009
>FNC
More like the FN CAL. Even the HK 33 would see adoption considering its service with US special forces during Vietnam. In summary:
>Experimental 5.56x45 M14
>FN CAL
>HK 33

>>31436606
Jesus Christ.
>he fell for all the AR fad memes at once

5.56 DI is still the best, hands down. Bring your but over to /arg/ and get roasted.

>>31436174

It performed objectively equal to or better than the AR in every testing area, except weight.
If that's your definition of "shitty" then so be it.

>>31437646
So it's heavier for no benefit,
>muh peashooter caliber
the AR18 is objectively the best battle rifle to be made, people like you are the reason why fudds shouldn't be allowed anywhere near procurement decisions.

They actively sabotaged the AR in trials,m the fact the M14 barely beats it out is hilarious testament to the shittyness of the rifle.

>>31437706

>So it's heavier for no benefit,

No, I said it performed better in some areas, equal in others.
Do you want me to list them or something?

>>31433801
T25 or T47

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>>31433978
Nah, the SKS was on its way out regardless of Kalashnikov's design, they were doing trials for assault rifles and a different rifle besides the AK-47 would have been chosen. I like to think that Korobov would score the contract with the TKB-517 since it's widely accepted that the 517 was the better rifle. The real question is, would Korobov have made his more radical designs if his earlier conventional ones were successful?

>>31433934
>>31433801
>>31436801
Mini-14 in a Troy industries stock would be today. That sucks.

>>31437725
Go for it, it'll be a fun throwback to retarded fudds in the ordinance department to try and fuck with the AR but you probably won't mention that.

>>31433801
Something from the light rifle program.

>>31437759

What evidence do you have that the AR was "sabotaged"?
And if it was, then why did they decide to adopt it even though it did worse in their tests?
If anything, that shows favoritism towards it.

>>31434860
Probably would of been a FAL, or a L85 type version of it

>>31433903
M14 all the way!

>>31433873
I can't live without my adult leggos!

>>31436606
Seems like a lot of major militaries thought that [semi-] disposable mags were a great idea. Makes life easier for armorers, end users. The only thing was, of course, requisition offices balked at the idea of ordering bulk replacements of magazines for all their rifles every three years or so - whatever the shorter service life of these mags are determined to be compared to holding them over as long as possible.

>>31436801
It would have had to had changed a hell of a lot. Carbines were great for guys who didn't have to use it as a primary weapon on a battlefield from what I hear. Not so great for daily use in the suck.

>>31433801
it would be replaced by all the innocents killed at sandy hook and aura ...

>>31437797

>he told you to go ahead
>you still didn't list them

>>31433801
The m16 wasn't Invented by stoner, so it would still exist.
Dude took credit for what his co-workers did.

>>31434346
This is more stupider than the OP's stupid.

>>31437992

It seemed pointless because the person I replied to had an obvious bias, but I'll post them anyway.
The improved M14 did better at reliability, durability, penetration, and automatic fire.
It also scored more hit on targets at every range and shooting method iirc.

>>31434367
Which was only designed because Armalite didn't have an intermediate rifle to sell anymore.

>>31438056
The AR-18 was mostly designed to be a low cost AR-15 alternative, but it also was designed to be as good or even better than the AR-15. I think the biggest problem was that it was never adopted in any meaningful way. If it was adopted, it would've allowed the design to have most if not all of the kinks worked out and convince other's to buy the gun.

>>31437997
no, he invented the gas system that led to the team modifying his rifle which became the ar15.
without stones, the ar15 wouldn't exist.

>>31434346
I can't even tell if this is trolling or not.

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>>31434881
>implying

>>31437997
Dude, I don't think Sullivan and co. ever said that Stoner didn't singlehandedly do the most work on the AR-10/AR-15/M16. In terms of bringing the rifle to production and finishing the design after trials, almost all of that was done by the team (i.e. Sullivan and co.). I wouldn't trivialize the production aspect of design; with modern rifles, refining the final design so that it's ready for affordable mass production is vital (and usually tacked on at the end since the inventor doesn't care to minimize the operations it takes to churn out a prototype).

>>31438097
In a sense, the design was hacked up and all your NEX GEN ULTRA INNOVATIV rifles these days are just AR-18 knock offs to one degree or another with slightly different materials, rails, and optics.

No one with their head screwed on straight seriously believes that the M14 is a better rifle anymore. It has its purpose and place in time, and it was short as a general service rifle and narrow now as a DMR. There's good reason for this.

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HK33
>No dead GI's from shit weapon.
>runs dirty or clean.
>accurate.

Wasn't the test for a 7.62x51mm rifle heavily biased in favor of the M14 anyway? The AR-10 would've never made it because the brass wanted to keep their M1 Garand waifu and they were going to get her, NATO standardization be damned.

>>31438644
Army shilled hard for their precious Garand 2.0, to the point that when the AR-15 started being pushed on by McNamara they intentionally sabotaged trials to the point that Stoner himself flew over to see what the fuck they were doing.

Meanwhile the Soviets are yukking it up with the AK and laughing at those stupid Americans with their WWII-era rifle mindsets.

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>>31437756
>TKB-417 was a lever delayed blowback

and here I thought that system was entirely deprecated in today's world....

>find out FAMAS is also lever delayed blowback

>>31439077
*517

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>>31438636
HK's roller delayed series lack a soul.

There might be no real civilian aftermarket for alternate-America's service rifle.

What a horrible world that would be..

>>31433801
Probably something like this:
>short stroke piston
>rotating bolt
>6,5x38mm or something in that area

Submachine guns would also still be in use.

>>31434966
Americans would have never adopted any specific foreign weapons design during those times.

Americans have adopted a number of basic ideas and general outlines though (lessons learned), and then they went totally their own way with them.

>>31434018
can I get whatever you're smoking because it must be good

>>31434346
You mean that testing done by the ordinance department. The one that was in bed with Springfield armory. The one that sabotaged both the AR-10 and the FAL so that the M14 could be adopted. Those are the people you're trusting?

>>31438710
you know what they did to make Stoner himself fly over. They swapped out all the pins for solder and then were surprised it was failing

>>31439163
.276 Pedersen would have been used if not for the massive .30-06 stockpiles made during WWI. .30-06 would have been an MMG and sniper round. The initial M1 design actually had a 10 round mag, chambered for .276.

>>31439467
Yes, this^. Basically, the ordnance board decided that despite the fact that the G3 and FAL both were better than the M14, American pride demanded that we develop our own rifle. Truly retarded, just as retarded as the demand to impose 7.62x51mm as a NATO standard.

>>31433801
FAL or G3

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A man can dream

FN FAL in 5.56 or .280 Brit

That is if Amrrican jingoism didn't get the better of them, then they'd be stuck with a shitty M14 for a bit longer.

REMINDER THAT ANY OF YOUR "REPLACEMENTS" WOULD NOT BE IN .308/7.62 RFN, IDIOTS

No no no. Kill George Sullivan so that the competition prototype AR-10s have real barrels instead of aluminum. Without the barrel failure during testing the AR-10 could easily have been adopted over the M14. Then we'd have kickass .308 ARs and have the AR kinks worked out before the 5.56 version

>AR-15 still invented
>6.5 Grendel chambered
>We salt snipers nao
>Take millions for myself, spend half on guns and the other half on combination of bitches, cocaine, and white bitches

>>31438051
>better reliability l, durability
Easy when you are comparing it to a gun held together with soldering wire
>penetration
...yes a fucking .308 will penetrate better than a 5.56 but that's fucking stupid ad had nothing to do with the fucking gun
>automatic fire
You have no fucking idea what you are talking about, do you?

>>31433801
The FAL

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>>31433801

M14A1, then development would go on from there.

>>31437839

But they are the best legos.

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>>31433801

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>>31436892
>single grain of sand

>>31433801
Shitty false ak/stg model is adopted.

Hopefully a FAL or a FAL in 5.56.

>>31441893
>fagermans weapons so gud

>loses every fucking war ever


faggot meme

SAFN 49

>>31434018
>It actually scored better than or equal to the AR-15 in everything except weight, including doing better in an automatic rifle role.

I know this is an alternate reality thread but you're doing it wrong

>>31434956
Yeah, you would just do something in the 60s that we barely do today

>>31436606
>.300blk
What a waste of potential. I'd your going to do a redesign you have no reason not go with 7.62x40 or 7.62x45 magwell length. But yeah fuck those mags

>>31436820
Yeah cause designs have never been modified right

>>31437706
>the AR18 is objectively the best battle rifle to be made
False. The basis of the AR18 mechanism is great and inexpensive assault rifles are useful. The AR18 isnt a battel rifle and it wasn't unique in it's cheapo mass production idea. Besides, look how long the US likes to keep weapons in service without actual replacement. The AR18 you love to fantasize about would be the M9,m249 and m60 of the assault rifle memes