3D PRINTED GUNS NOT PROTECTED BY AMENDMENTS

And what are they going to do about it?

>>31431212
Manufacturing firearms is still legal as long as you do not intend to sell them and follow nfa rules.

>>31431219
This maybe?

http://www.popsci.com/new-law-blocks-export-americas-least-threatening-gun

Courts have also ruled piracy is illegal and yet millions of people do it every day.
SHALL

>"The Founders probably didn't see the militia system falling out of use."


Into the trash it goes.

>>31431212
FROM
MY
COLD
DEAD
EXTRUDER

>>31431212
It's illegal to share the 3D printing FILES online, as that's considered an international export.

Still perfectly legal to print one for your own use, no matter how terrible thermoplastic is for firearms.

>>31431212
In other news
>HOMEMADE GUNS NOT PROTECTED BY AMENDMENTS

I still can't figure out why 3D printed guns are such a hot topic. It's a really shitty manufacturing method for almost any part of a firearm bar the furniture and maybe some receivers. If you want to manufacture guns in a garage like that, just use a cheap CNC machine. And we've had those for decades now.

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>implying anyone is going to give a fuck about this and not keep doing it anyway

>>31432915
CNC machines aren't really cheap.

You could convert a Sieg X3 mini mill to CNC, but you would really be limited in what you can do with it. For instance, it just doesn't have the rigidity to take large cuts in steel, so it would take literally days (I'm guessing) to mill an AK front trunnion with it.

>>31431212
In the opinion of that court. I'm sure this will go to SCOTUS, who has the final say.

>>31432915
>If you want to manufacture guns in a garage like that, just use a cheap CNC machine.

Boy, you are really are a fucking retard.

All you have to do with a 3D printer is load the file, fill it with plastic bits, and hit Go. Literally any idiot can buy a $200 3D printer, today, and print the gun designs that already exist.

That's worlds away from buying and running a CNC machine.

>>31431545

I'm sorry, what? since when did file sharing become illegal?

>>31433408
There is that one def-dist CNC though, and files made for it would work with it.

>>31433422
around 2013-2014 or so when Obama was being a sore bitch of a loser.

>>31433422
>since when did file sharing become illegal?

Wow, are you literally 2 years old?

There are plenty of files that you can't share legally, like copyrighted material, or illegal stuff like CP.

How can you possibly be unaware of this?

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>>31433422
FYI they used the ITAR restrictions to make it illegal to share some firearms drawings online, because you can't prevent foreigners from getting them.

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>>31433475
I wonder if that will affect Google's digitization of the patent office documents?

Obama admin is so fucking stupid.

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>>31433488

>>31433475

but how exactly is this our problem?

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>>31433507
It's technically illegal now.
Without something like 100,000 angry Jews creating an RIAA to enforce it, you'll probably never hear from it though.

But if you own and operate a website dealing in 3d gun files, like defense distributed, they will slap you with a court order of some sort.

Pure jackbooted thuggery in my eyes.

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>>31433408
>Buy a 200 dollar 3d printer to print shitty gun
>Instead of just buying 200 dollar gun

>>31433550
>buy nice 3D printer as Californian
>it eats plastic and shits unserialed AR lowers
>GG gun grabbers
It's the fact that you can get an even somewhat workable AR lower out of it that really scares the gun grabbers.

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>>31433501

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>>31431212
>Ordinarily, of course, the protection of constitutional rights would be the highest public interest at issue in a case. That is not necessarily true here,

So another example of the government trampling our rights, who'da thunk?

Good thing it's still in both the Mega Folder and the smaller Dokument.

>>31433422
It's not. This falls under International Arms Trade laws.

Which existed long before Obama you fucks.

>>31433585
>it eats plastic and shits unserialed AR lowers
That break after half a mag at best.

>>31431212
So they finally did it. Doesn't this case essentially mean freedom of speech doesn't protect the internet, internet articles, twitter and the like? I mean the founding fathers could not gave perceived such an ability to proliferate ideas

>>31433784

Should be about as sturdy as any polymer lower.

Guys.

3D printers ARE CNC machines.

They run gcode.

>>31433784
>implying I need more than a few shots with a bunch of rifles that are strategically hidden around my area with the intent to abandon them after use

>>31433408
>you have to do with a 3D printer is load the file, fill it with plastic bits, and hit Go.

You do realize that's not true unless you happen to have a commercial FDM that costs upwards of 8 grand or more likely 20 grand for an SE plus right? Trying to build guns or AR receivers on a hobbyist grade FDM is a pain in the ass and you would know if you have ever tried. Remember PLA is brittle as fuck so you're not using that for guns. I'm getting a roll of PETG in to test with but ABS is one giant pain in the ass to work with, and that's assuming your printer is already perfectly tweaked and calibrated. Unless you bought a commercial unit or even something like a Cubicon I seriously doubt your parts are going to be engineering accurate with an out of the box i3 or replicator clone.

>>31433784

There are tons of various designs that have survived multiple mags.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz8mlB1hZ-o

People have successfully test-fired AR-10 lowers, too.

>>31431212
Who cares? I can make a slam fire from pipe and incredibly basic tools.
What's more, it just looks like a pipe, when dissamlend it's just bits.
People can already make pretty effective guns out of metal piping etc

>>31433899
>this
i can go into almost any hardware store and walk out with a working rifle

>>31433766
*Which Obama undoubtedly directed the relevant office/agency to trample on internet dissemination of information.

>>31431212
this actually makes me mad, but the 5th circuit is literally always handing down the most cucked, statist rulings.. But it actually doesn't fucking matter because they'll appeal immediately and it'll go back into limbo until the supreme court hears it or decides not to.

what besides hillary rotten clinton's state department circa ~2014 is pretending that files hosted on a US server are an itar violation any more than google having the patent paperwork for pretty much all itar controlled products or wikipedia hosting a diagram of how night vision works.

>>31434071

5th circuit is really just California doing California things.

>>31433876
Github repo containing the files in question:
https://github.com/maduce/fosscad-repo

Clone and share.

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>>31433965

>>31431212
wtf I'm downloading a car now

So will mechanical drawings of firearms be illegal to share also?

>americans won't explode their hands in droves anymore with shitty 3d printed muzzleloading guns that don't even come with handles

genuinely sad 2bh

>>31433422
>since when did file sharing become illegal?
since files themselves, basically

>>31433408
you're a fucking retard
>buy horribly outdated reprap kit for $200
>assemble it over the course of hours
>spend more house calibrating it to actually print properly
>find out you fucked up somewhere in this process
>repeat
>finally time to print
>put $80 spool of PLA on printer
>just press print... oh wait you still need to import the files, position them, slice them into pieces small enough to be printed on your work surface, etc.
>do all that, which is specific to each machine and build
>just press print
>prints out shit 3mm layer thickness plastic crap
>every part of liberator design entirely unusable, especially the coil springs
>you find this out after a print cycle of several hours to days.

conversely I bought a 12ga shotgun barrel off numrich for a whopping $20 that will last forever as a slambang.

>>31434182
>slambang
So, have americans come to realize that springs and triggers and sears exist, yet?

>>31434145
And then it's a hundred grand's worth of resin to print it.

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>>31434167
>yfw ATF raid on google HQ for thousands of ITAR violations
>google docs hosted patent archives,jpg

>>31434201
this, 3d printing is very expensive and isn't even a very good manufacturing method

parts made with it will be inferior to parts made in pretty much every other way. there's a reason they began life named "rapid prototypers" -- they're only for quickly prototyping things before entering full scale production. they're not meant for industrial use. 3d printers are literally more misunderstood and over-deployed than K-Cups

>>31433822
There's a bolt-together design that actually looks sturdier than the polymer80 in design alone, and that's not counting how very much easier it is for a plebe to assemble one properly.

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>>31433585
Here's the thing. You can also make an AR lower out of a chunk of steel or aluminum, but they're not worried about that because modern day yuppies believe that to produce anything you need an entire factory of wizards operating equipment. They think making things is nearly impossible because they've never made anything in their entire life

>>31431264
And then you can still get the files off of piratebay or some other torrent site

>>31433601
>AR-15 bolt in shitty pea shooter caliber is crusty and dirty as fuck
>AR-10 bolt in manly 7.62 caliber still a bastion of sparkling chrome freedom after thousands of kebab removed

what did he mean by this?

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>>31434193
considering I can buy a shotgun for $90 over the counter any day of the week yurocuck, short answer is yes.

>>31434215
it's in google's TOS that any content you upload to it is not yours, and they've vbeen cooperative about filtering results for legal reasons in the past

>>31434236
If these threads are any indication, it's true that the average american is incapable of producing anything if it doesn't come down to "download file; push "go"; receive gun"

fucking four-winds are the apex zip gun to you retards while people in ireland and africa and the middle east are making functional SMGs out of plumbing parts.

>>31431212
Oh my fucking god. The State Department LITERALLY sends guns across national borders to KNOWN terrorists...
But it is illegal for us to send information about them.

Guys... Its almost time.

>>31434250
>bothered carving a stock and woodburning in some probably autistic phrase along the lines of "muh moldy labia"

>it's still a shitty slam-bangthat apparently has to be pumped backwards, which is probably the worst human motion for doing such a thing accurately and consistently

all im gathering from your post is that indeed, americans literally do not understand springs or catches or basically anything else mechanical.

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>>31433585
you can literally make a more resilient AR lower out of a block of hardwood with a harbor freight drill press and a dremel tool. .

just drill all the holes (but not that 3rd hole) and plunge cut the slots, then slap in that lower build kit and upper.
>ban assault 2x8s!!!

>>31434256
There are so many guns for so cheap in the US that it's literally not worth the time/money to figure out how to make your own for most people.

>>31434274
>this mad you can't own guns

between make a one shot hand remover like the liberator on ~$1000 worth of equipment and buying a gun barrel for a pipe shotgun, or a yugo parts kit and AK flat, or a 80% lower and a build kit every option and method for making firearms is superior to 3D printing.

>>31434285
>with a harbor freight drill press and a dremel tool
You're severely overestimating the available working space, tool budget, and skill of the target audience here.

>>31434256
Slambangs are the apex zip gun because you can make one in a few minutes after a trip to a hardware store using absolutely no tools.

Yeah, if you have a welding setup, an angle grinder, a whole bunch of random fiddly metal parts, you don't mind your finished gun blowing through a magazine in literally half a second, and you have a week or two to work on it, you can put together a submachine gun. It's great that that's possible, but if SHTF you're not going to say "time to plug in my power tools and start a two-week project!"

If you desperately need to defend yourself you're not going to spend hours drawing out and testing different spring/catch/sear configurations. You're going to use the design that can be constructed out of two pipes in a few minutes, and you're going to use it to steal a real gun.

More complex designs are only useful if you're settling in for long-term resistance or you're a drug dealer or terrorist.

>>31434329
If you can't handle tools, you can't handle a rifle.

If you're unwilling to handle tools, you don't deserve to handle a rifle.

>>31434171
>muzzleloading

Confirmed for not knowing shit.

>>31434350
>t. shitter-shattered wood shop teacher who regrets not doing more with his life

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>>31434330
>Slambangs are the apex zip gun because you can make one in a few minutes after a trip to a hardware store using absolutely no tools.
You can make a proper gun with an actual trigger out of a fucking stapler.

Fucking match-locks are more advanced than your shitty Le Four Wynds Meme Shootgun
>If you desperately need to defend yourself
If you're in that desperate a situation, you're not going to have the time to go to Rona for tubing.

>spend hours drawing out and testing different spring/catch/sear configurations
That does not take "hours" and in fact parts for that kind of thing can be easily ripped out of other household items -- solder suckers, for example, are basically all you need. Maybe replace the spring with a stronger one out of a printer or a bicycle pump or something and there you go.

>if you have a welding setup, an angle grinder, a whole bunch of random fiddly metal parts, you don't mind your finished gun blowing through a magazine in literally half a second, and you have a week or two to work on it,
You are seriously over-estimating how long it would take to build a functional single-shot zip gun that actually has a trigger and doesn't have to be reloaded by removing the entire fucking barrel.

>>31434329
you think any of the idiots who post facebook videos about the instant timelapsed magic of 3D printing actually own or could operate a 3D printer?

http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/uploads/Weaponeer/files/2007-10-17_131429_AR_15_Scratch_Built_Receiver.pdf

market has literally already filled in the hole. You can make an AR lower out of sheet aluminum from plans proliferated anonymously by a non corporate entity for half a decade. Freedom wins again

>>31434375
he's really giving it his all to prove exactly why /k/ needs country flags

>>31434350
this

>>31434400

And poster ID's.

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>>31434391
this is the best thing ive ever scene, can you link instructions pls?

>>31433370

I can get you a CNC equipped Bridgeport with x-y power feed and z read out for 3 grand. Sure its used but its CNC and all you have to do is feed the quill to the depth you require and it'll cut the pocket out for you.

>>31434391
>other household items -- solder suckers, for example, are basically all you need. Maybe replace the spring with a stronger one out of a printer or a bicycle pump or something
You're assuming people have those things lying around. Many don't.

>>31434391
how much deeper are you going to dig this asshurt european cuck pit anon?

>a gun utilizing self enclosed centerfire cartridges that can be rapidly reloaded
>less advanced than a matchlock
>Muh moving parts!

>make a gun trigger out of a plastic circuit board solder removal tool
>that doesn't have a trigger
>doesn't know how gun triggers work
plz stop

>this thing I've never done and legally can never do is so easy!
yeah all those improvised firearms manuals that go over how you need to spend a long time hand fitting to make your SAO break barrel single shot pistol/shotgun actually work are just lies.

>>31434400
>you think any of the idiots who post facebook videos about the instant timelapsed magic of 3D printing actually own or could operate a 3D printer?
Yes, actually. That's sort of the point of 3D printing.

>>31434414
>>31434400
>h-h-how dare you insinuate that its possible for guns to exist that arent slam bangs!! ffffucking hillary shill!!!! germany go back to afghanistan!!!!!!!!!

Americans are so shrill and brittle. No wonder you need a gun under your pillow to sleep at night.

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>>31434456
>You're assuming people have those things lying around.

>a solder sucker is considered an uncommon and rare item in the US

a nation of inept imbeciles

>>31434485

Joke's on you, I'm Canadian.

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>most americans have never seen one of these in their entire life
>most americans are too retarded to understand how they work

i think i have this exact model except mine has branding from the chain i bought it from on it

>>31434499
you're from toronto arent you

I will pay you 99$ to fuck off

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>>31434429
you are easily entertained. sheet steel over 3/16ths break line with a rimfire firing pin nigger rigged onto the striker of the staple gun.

>>31434391
>americans can't into springs
>posts a bunch of US made zipguns
>shitposting about how easy it is to make a .22 derringer if you only have a few days and grinding equipment
>doesn't realize the guy he responded to was talking about making and tuning submachineguns.
the luty design is meant for .32acp. up chambering it to .380 without increasing the bolt weight and a pretty big redesign of the gun make it into an uncontrollable bullet hose that'll vibrate itself apart. eve worse with the straya cunts who keep pumping them out in 9mm. but you wouldn't know that because you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

>>31434510
wasnt the stapler zip gun australian? i'll be honest I never looked into it much

> making and tuning submachineguns.
We were talking about slam-bangs. this shitshow started with me talking shit about slam-bangs. if the other anon is going on about SMGs then the goalposts are just rocketing away from me I guess

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>>31434495
>and yet for all our alleged inferiority nobody else has ever done this

>>31434508

I'm currently living there, but I'm not "from" there.

>>31434484
no it isn't. it's the way idiots use it, but in industry it is for rapid prototyping.

1 in 50 idiots obsessed with 3D printers might own a shitty reprap kit they never quite got to work right, but very few drop the 5-800, or really the 2-8 grand for a crappy "real" printer. Let alone the 60k units defdist was renting at the start of this debacle to make a liberator that won't explode on the first shot.

>>31434495
you're the only one who apparently works in a sweatshop making iphones

>expects people to have a circuit board solder removal tool on hand to cannibalize into a PLASTIC gun trigger/hammer/sear
>doesn't own a dremel tool or a file set
wew

>>31434533
you're just an idiot then. learn to read.
>all this peasant asshurt over not being able to own nesting pipes without being thrown in jail

>>31434391
You genuinely think that piece of shit you posted a picture of is more effective than a slambang shotgun?

Let's see....
>tiny "barrel", no accuracy at all
>.22lr, technically lethal but out of that barrel? at what range? very little
>requires you to have that kind of stapler
>requires you to hammer (?) sheet metal into a "barrel"
>big springy "trigger" makes it hard to hold aim

vs. a slambang
>made in minutes with pipe and a nail
>no need to form your own "barrel"
>buckshot is pretty lethal, probably at longer range than 22lr out of a microbarrel
>firing mechanism is bad for aim but shot spreads and with a steady hand you can aim it
>barrel length allows you to take full advantage of gas expansion

Look, faggot, you're not wrong that other guns are more advanced or more complex, but those qualities are not important when you're making the kind of last-ditch zipgun that the slambang is. It would be equally accurate for you to say "heh, just use a home machining workshop to build your own full AR, it's much better". Yeah, no shit, but zipguns need to be simple, lethal, fast to make, and easy to hide. Some monstrosity hammered together out of random household items might be "more advanced" or "have a real trigger" but that doesn't matter when your life depends on it, and I would gladly trade out a trigger and "muh aesthetics" for the ability to fire 00 buckshot instead of .22lr out of a microbarrel, because I'm not gonna be using my zipgun to fight rats.

>>31434556
>circuit board solder removal tool
theyre literally five dollars at the corner electronics store. if you're not handy enough to have at least seen one before (or be able to find a similar assembly in another device -- spring-loaded catches and buttons and levers and such are incredibly common in basically everything) then honestly I say you shouldn't have a gun. you're too stupid to operate it safely and too inept to be worth protecting when the revolution comes

> PLASTIC
first off, your precious ~liberator~ is plastic, and second, the parts inside are all metal except for the plunger, m8

and this is just for a firing pin. no one is proposing using it for a barrel, just cannibalizing it for a trigger. but im sure your doughy hands are so much more robust :^)

>>31434572
>he literally said "Slambangs are the apex zip gun"
>goes on about submachineguns
lmao ok man
american literacy at its finest

Just telling:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5-Inch-Automatic-Center-Pin-Punch-Spring-Loaded-Marking-Starting-Holes-Tool/32523689781.html?spm=2114.01010108.3.8.5BfXlK&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_0,searchweb201602_3_10057_10056_10065_10068_10055_10054_10069_301_10059_10033_10058_10032_418_10073_10017_10070_10060_10061_10052_10062_10053_10050_10051,searchweb201603_6&btsid=d377a5b6-6426-43d0-9bd0-72f8ed036c08 combined with some trigger stuff seems viable.

>>31434634
are you seriously insinuating that only pipes in 12ga exist, that similar devices to that stapler don't exist and/or can't be salvaged, and that a zip gun that isn't a slam bang is BY DEFINITION in .22lr, and that to arrange a spring-loaded pin to hit a primer instead of using your hands is tantamount to "heh, just use a home machining workshop to build your own full AR, it's much better"

youre retarded. i hope the revolution does come in your lifetime and you are killed in the street trying to operate your dumbass slam-bang

>>31434662
>are you seriously insinuating that only pipes in 12ga exist
Nope.

> that similar devices to that stapler don't exist and/or can't be salvaged
Nope, but a slambang doesn't require you to fuck around in your drawers hoping that you have a stapler that you can grind bits off of to turn into a pistol. This makes it simpler and easier to make, which is a HUGE benefit when designing a zipgun.

>, and that a zip gun that isn't a slam bang is BY DEFINITION in .22lr
Nope, but you posted a picture of a .22lr as an example. Also, have fun aiming at anything while firing a pistol cartridge out of a smooth bore. Again, I'm aware that guns like the luty smg exist and are better in some situations, but sawing, grinding, and welding metal to exact specifications and fucking around with springs are more complex than necessary for most zipgun applications.

>and that to arrange a spring-loaded pin to hit a primer instead of using your hands is tantamount to "heh, just use a home machining workshop to build your own full AR, it's much better"

No, I'm pointing out that it's trivially obvious that with more tools and more skill you can build a better gun. That's true all the way up the chain, all the way to nuclear weapons.

But we're talking about zipguns, simple, cheap weapons that can be manufactured illegally in a desperate situation for survival use. I could do what you're doing and say
>wew, yuropoors are so incompetent, they don't even have home-machining workshops where they could build their own AR
and I'd be right if I said the AR is better than a luty smg. Yeah, the more time and effort you pour into a zipgun, the better it will be. We know that. If you pour enough effort into it, you could just manufacture a true-to-life AR.

The whole point is trying to build the most useful gun with minimum tools and supplies. Jesus, how are you this fucking dumb? Why do you need to waste your time making a trigger? What's the point?

>>31434646
>slambangs are the apex of "zip gun"...
>...because it is literally 3 pieces of unregulatable plumbing fittings and a nail anyone with 3 braincells can make that actually works effectively as a weapon at 15-25 yards with a 18" cylinder bore barrel
you forgot the second part

then he talked about how your "muh real zipgunz" argument and how easy it is for chinks like you to hypothetically make guns is retarded because it takes a lot of hand fitting and design changes to make a firearm out of forms from a line drawing cut out of sheet steel.

>>31434662
And a trigger is absolutely useless for anything other than making your zipgun look tacticool, because trying to make a smoothbore gun fire a pistol cartridge accurately beyond a few meters is a fucking joke.

Zipguns are not precise. Zipguns are not aesthetic. Zipguns are not accurate.

Zipguns should maximize deadliness while minimizing construction time and materials and required construction knowledge.

Slambangs do all this. You can make a better gun (like a REAL AR, dumbfuck) with more tools and more machining knowledge, but THAT'S NOT WHAT A ZIPGUN IS ABOUT holy fucking shit you're so fucking stupid.

So yeah, if you have two weeks, an angle grinder, a welding kit, and a whole bunch of properly sized pipes and hardened steel scraps and custom designed springs (read the actual Luty manual, you need this stuff), then go ahead and build a Luty, it's better than a slambang.

But when the revolution comes, you'll be in your workshop rolling a spring when the secret police shoot you, while the amerifats who fell for the slambang meme will have already taken the local national guard barracks and stolen their assault rifles.

you dumb euro fuck

>>31434662
if you weren't a nogunz faggot you'd know that most zip guns use .22lr because the wall thickness of the case itself can contain about 3/4 of the immolation without rupturing, so you can use anything from copper tubing to brake line to a literal hole in a piece of wood to make a zip gun in .22lr

>>31434790
>a trigger is absolutely useless for anything other than making your gun look tacticool


Americans, everyone.

>>31434805
Yeah, you left out the part where we're talking about imprecisely sized commercial piping used to make a smoothbore barrel to fire pistol cartridges.

Do an accuracy comparison between a smoothbore .5 inch badly sized 9mm barreled gun with a trigger and a slambang shotgun and you will find that the shotgun is much more useful for just about any real application.

>>31434805
>I'm going to shoot .5 MOA with a smoothbore imprecisely sized .5 inch barrel firing a 9mm cartridge, you amerifats with your full length slambang shotgun barrels are retarded

You know literally nothing about firearms

>>31434849
>>I'm going to shoot .5 MOA with a smoothbore imprecisely sized .5 inch barrel firing a 9mm cartridge
said literally no one ever. You're retarded and illiterate.


But seriously,

>a trigger is absolutely useless for anything other than making your gun look tacticool

>a trigger is absolutely useless

hooooooly fuck. Americans, everyone. This is what americans actually believe.

>>31434556
The liberator is a terrible design and nobody should ever use it.

The bolt-together AR-15 lower is just about on par with commercial polymer lowers when printed from the $500-$3k step-up-from-reprap printers, and the advantage of 3D printing over amateur hand building is that it's repeatable. You can print fifty lowers' worth of parts and put together an assembly line for them, and have your own little arms factory. Having a bunch of amateurs try to make them out of 2x8s or raw sheets of aluminum is going to end badly.

>>31434912
>the advantage of 3D printing over amateur hand building is that it's repeatable
But so's injection molding, or milling using jigs, or basically every other vastly cheaper production method.

3d printers are not and never were intended to be for industrial use. they're for rapid prototyping and one-off parts where you don't want to set up a dozen jigs and molds to mill or cast parts. if you're creating a production line, you may as well start using other production methods.

3d printing takes a fuckoff long time, too. you don't push a button and immediately receive a part. it takes hours upon hours to "print" even fairly small items

>>31434898
>How do I try to make Americans look stupid?
>I know, I'll quote five words out of a very long sentence, ignoring the context entirely

I never knew that enough blacks had poured into Europe to drop their IQ this much but I guess I was wrong. Have fun getting cucked by Ahmed, faggot.

anybody know where i can find an electropencil online ?

you know like the russians use to mark stuff

>>31434912
In the literal 1-2 days it takes to print the AR lower you could have had 5 separate baristas with files each make one piece from the bolt together design as many times as possible with someone not retarded doing the final finishing and slapping them together.

On a shop scale operation you could make a fuckton of bolt togethers, and Tig weld them, if you used a water jet or plasma cutter to turn 4'x8' aluminum sheets stacked to 10 high into bulk parts.

>>31434898

As an outsider looking in I'll say this.


For a quick to put together with higher hit chance, I'll take a long piece of pipe spewing lots of lead on target I'll take a slam bang in 12 guage.


If I was looking for something more put together and maybe more concealable I'd make a smaller device with a trigger of some sorts.

>>31434968
Why not just put a trigger on your zip-shotgun so you can fire it comfortably and accurately instead of doing thumb-over-bore pumping bullshit to shoot it?

Why not literally be as clever as people who built crossbows hundreds of years ago and store mechanical energy for use at once in a consistent fashion instead of using your doughy hands in an inconsistent fashion?

>>31434989
>Why not just put a trigger on your zip-shotgun so you can fire it comfortably and accurately instead of doing thumb-over-bore pumping bullshit to shoot it?
If you've got time to put that shit together you've got time to just fucking drive down to walmart and buy a shotgun.

>>31433938
A working shotgun definitely, but I don't think rifled barrels can be improvised that easily.

>>31434989

>quick to put together
>going through extra steps to make trigger and spring setup.


Reading comprehension is not your friend. The slam bang is meant to be quickly put together.

>>31435004
>If you've got time to put that shit together
If you've got time to fucking drive down to Home Depot for tubes and nails, you've got time to just fucking drive down to walmart and buy a shotgun.

>>31435023
>quick to put together
Why can you not spare the extra, like, hour to manufacture a trigger assembly?

In literally what situation are you under so much duress that you have the time to drive to home depot and buy the right sizes of pipe to make the stupid thing, but somehow don't have the time to attach a nail to a spring?

Could it be that it's not a time issue at all, and you're just too retarded to understand sears?

>>31435029
Yes, and that's why zipguns are a tiny niche in the US. We simply have so many better guns it's not worth it unless you're getting in to gunsmithing as a hobby.

>>31434898
It's like you're avoiding the core of his argument, and repeating one line that is fallacious when considered out of context.
In a zip gun- emphasis on the part where we are talking about a zip gun- a trigger is useful for ergonomics, but ergonomics aren't important on a zip gun anyway, so it really isn't important.
On a zip gun, you're trying to make something simple, concealable, and lethal, out of parts that can be acquired and utilized with a minimum of prep and/or machining. Your accuracy is going to be shit, because you're firing out of a smoothbore. It doesn't matter if you have a trigger, because a zip gun is designed to be used as little as possible, as close to your target as possible. You're killing a guy to take his gun that was made out of ordnance-grade materials and requires a trigger because it is capable of accuracy at ranges that need one.
Do you understand?

>>31435041

Its not just a trigger assembly. A slam bang is ten bucks of materials, now your adding springs and other shit to the bill.


And don't start on my knowledge. You don't know what I do for a living or my knowledge base. I could make a god damn AR-15 from scratch at work if I wanted to.

>>31435065
>but ergonomics aren't important on a gun
Americans, everyone.

>>31434968
Anything a pen gun style .22 is good for you'd do better carrying a knife.
>>31434898
On a smoothbore brake line .22 or bored out bolt a trigger is a massive waste of time compared to a simple open bolt mechanism nongunzanon

>>31435065

Meant for this tard.
>>31435041

>>31435072
>your
So on top of not being able to source a fucking spring, you don't even speak English. Good job, pablo.

>>31435080
>"open bolt" means it doesn't have a trigger

Americans, everyone.

>Ordinarily, of course, the protection of constitutional rights would be the highest public interest at issue in a case. That is not necessarily true here, however, because the State Department has asserted a very strong public interest in national defense and national security. Indeed, the State Department’s stated interest in preventing foreign nationals—including all manner of enemies of this country—from obtaining technical data on how to produce weapons and weapon parts is not merely tangentially related to national defense and national security; it lies squarely within that interest.
This rationale is preposterously short-sighted and naive. The sort of cloistered thought that people will recall with laughter in a hundred years.

Anyway, it's a circuit ruling.

>>31435092

>hey guys, I can't make an argument against the post so lets insult based on a grammar mistake.


Go fuck yourself.

>>31435114
>This rationale is preposterously short-sighted and naive. The sort of cloistered thought that people will recall with laughter in a hundred years.
You could cite the overturning of the ITAR classification of encryption technology and what that did for the internet and the American economy as an obvious direct parallel. Any lawyer who's at all familiar with the history of tech could destroy this argument.

>>31435116
>he literally thinks springs are too expensive to use in the course of making a diy'd gun with a moving firing pin instead of being hand-struck


Americans, everyone.

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>>31435104
>Pen guns
>Triggers

Is there anything you actually do know about firearms? You're batting 0 so far m8. Literally wrong about everything in every post.

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>>31435263
I think "Americans, everyone" is the equivalent of "muh dik" for europoors with delusions of competence. It seems to get spammed a lot as a non argument.

>>31435114
>>31435131
Rulings like this show that what is right and what is the courts ruling are two different things. The opposing statement tears them a new asshole, but the judges who ruled on this literally have said we should trade liberty for "security" if bureaucrats in a government body say so.

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>>31434535
That generation is nearly dead and they've raised idiots to replace themselves. You couldn't land on the moon any more than Italy could rebuild the Roman Empire.

>>31435263
>>Pen guns
>anyone was talking about "pen guns" specifically until you brought it up just now right this second

Americans, everyone. Just can't stop moving those goalposts, can you? Figures. I always knew all americans are retarded, but I keep having this faint hope that one day I'll see one that isn't. I guess that's misguided thinking, eh, to think that maybe somewhere there is an american who is not retarded.

>>31431397
Dick Act 1903.

Federalized the State Militias, turning them into the National Guard.

>>31435263
That's way to expensive to build. Just look at that spring in there... And hwy is it hex-shaped? Just to be fucking sci-fi? We don't all have fancy laser CNC mills, man.

>>31435263
>springs
>threading
Do you think I'm fucking made of money?

>>31433408
Have you ever used a 3d printer?

I mean that's the basic idea, but in my experience they can be very touchy, especially the cheap printers. They wont stick to the print surface, or overstick, layers separate, temps need to be dialed in, the spools of print material are sensitive to humidity, extruders get plugged up, drafts screw temps if not enclosed, ect.

A 3d printer that is properly set up, calibrated, and ran by somebody with experience can be super simple to use. A 3d printer can also be a huge pain in the ass, especially the entry level ones.

>>31435457
>they can be very touchy, especially the cheap printers.
Not just this, but they don't make parts to very good tolerances. In fact, students in programs with access to 3d printers typically make their parts big, simple, and slightly larger than they should be so they can sand them down after for actual fitting. They're more work than just "push buttan; receive gun"

>>31435406
>Thinking anyone but you is talking about using a fucking carpet stapling gun to detonate a .22short
Yurocucks everyone.

>Muh triggers
zip guns by and large don't have triggers you ignorant faggot.

>>31435457
>>31435477
The filiament is pretty expensive, too. You don't just load it with plastic scrap from junked printers or something -- it's specially made stuff that costs a lot to get your hands on because it's a niche product.

If you're just printing meme lowers because you think it somehow personally offends feinstein, you're better off with your assault 2x4s.

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Just reminding you guys that the Imura revolver is finally released.
It's a 12 shot .38 caliber (s&w and special) revolver with a zig-zag cylinder. I've not seen it tested, but the .cad files are out there.

>>31435535
>Hand remover.exe
Please tell me it's meant to use barrel/chamber sleeves

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>>31435497
>zip guns by and large don't have triggers
Most of these have a trigger if not at least a spring-loaded pin on a sear of some kind instead of just being nested tubes you operate by hand like a fucking caveman.

>>31435535
yeah no cheap 3d printer is gonna be able to make that well enough that it doesn't jam after every shot

maybe a very high end one could but that shit aint gonna print nicely

>>31435563

Yes.

Also, fun fact: .38 Special is lower pressure than .22lr.

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>>31435563
I can't find any in the designs, but this gun is designed by a Japanese guy who may not have fired a real gun before, and may not ever do it.
It would be cool if some Americans could improve it, like the guy who made the Songbird handle .357 mag.

>>31435535
>>31435601
that cylinder has nowhere it can move back and forth

literally how does it cycle

>>31435625
I would assume the thing that engages the groove moves.

>>31431212
It's manufacturing. I don't see what's so controversial.

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>>31435625
It moves the same way the Washbear cylinder moves, like >>31435636 said.

>>31435535
>a trigger
No thanks. It's literally too complicated to handle.

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>>31435565
A trigger is a sear holding back a hammer or striker. Not anything spring loaded you fucking idiot.
>Mfw your own picture is 9/10ths pen guns and different angles of that retarded staple gun abortion that wouldn't even fire since it has no barrel.

Some more American ingenuity, the marigold glock kit

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If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so.

>>31435659
>Washbear
http://washbear.com/

???

that thing doesnt look like it can cycle. I don't even see a hammer or firing pin on it

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>>31435681

>>31435679
>Not anything spring loaded you fucking idiot.

>hammers on sears aren't spring-loaded

Americans, everyone.

>>31435681
>>31435700
>americans think that posting this junk is ~scaring the government~ when they literally can't even manufacture slam-bangs properly without reams of instructional manuals

lmao

>>31435681
Every faggot in the world thinks the laws they don't want to obey are unjust. Child molesters think laws against kiddy fucking are unjust, thieves think that property is theft and murderers think that they have it coming.

>>31435710
go back to /int/

>>31431212
dear state dept,

get fucked
come and take it

sincerly,

Will Ingtoshootyouinnaface

>>31435696
The PM522 Washbear, an earlier 3d printed revolver. See it in action here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ11XFv4iZA
I can't find the firing pin in the designs (the M4 tap?), but I guess it's just a small nail, which I believe the Washbear uses.

>>31435710
You're going to get a hemorrhoid from how asshurt you are over being a unarmed. Do they allow you 12ftlb pellet guns in your failed state?

>Thinks a bolt (literally in some cases) is a trigger just because it is operated to make the nigger rigged boom boom stick go pew
>Because zip guns don't have triggers

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>>31435700
>>31435710
You're retarded it's not scaring the government. Not intended to. It's just disemenating information.
>>31435715
>the right of the people to molest...
oh wait

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>>31435758

>>31431264
Why does the government have so much power when it comes to guns?
There's a ton of literally pointless laws to prevent things that never happen

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>>31435773

>>31435780
Democrats pushing blatantly unconstitutional shit through in the 30s, 60s, 80s, 90s, and under Obama. That's really it.

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>>31435794

>>31431264
>constitutional rights don't matter if it is possible to frame it in the context of national security

I can understand legitimate threats to national security, but intellectual property that the government doesn't explicitly have rights to does not fall under a national security threat. They could use that interpretation to prevent virtually everything from being made available on the internet.

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>>31435837
Whoops wrong image.

>>31435871
Thanks for the bomb.

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>>31431212
>wow jeez reading the article and what the State Department sure is hard

HOLY FUCK.

Guys, clickbait title is clickbait title. That title is literally not what the article, or what the State Department, ruled regarding 3D printed guns. Er, it partially is, but the title is misleading as fucking Buzzfeed "You won't BELIEVE what this doctor SAID about granola!" titles.

Here's the tl;dr. 3D printed guns are legal, as well as the plans to make them are legal. Plans for making them cannot be legally hosted online because while free speech is supposed to allow for it, anything that can threaten the safety of the nation (posting fucking gun plans online) can have constitutional rights stricken from it. It's not that "oh the Supreme Court doesn't like guns", no they just don't want other countries and terrorist groups having fucking printable guns.

Reading. Izi pizi guys.

>>31433784
you use the 3D printer to rapidly prototype an outline, make a mold, and cast it in resin.

>>31435806
>and under Obama
Name one gun law actually passed.

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>>31436161
>guys hey guys all this shit you already know!
this thread is just a normal terrible shitpost filled 3D printing thread full of people who don't know a damn thing about 3d printers and people who do and recognise they're slow, inaccurate garbage. fucking read nigga

also all this is because of
A. ITAR which ostensibly limits sensitive tech to domestic use only, but in actuality is just a way to make companies get expensive export licenses for high end tacticool like FLIR. IE it does fucking nothing.

B. the late shillary state department didn't like the proles knowing how easy it is to make guns and purposefully set out to fuck with defdist, first with the FFL issue (despite them not making any firearms for commercial sale) that fell through and now this bullshit ITAR violation issue. they're just trying to make them run out of money or stop fighting, which means that because of the cucks in the 5th circuit it'd go in the queue for the supreme court.

>>31436400
>wut iz NY safe act
>wut iz calgungeddon and the 7 new laws that fucked over gen1 bullet buttons and put a whole assload of new insane restrictions.
>wut iz the fall of connecticut to gungrabbing
just because things are good in your backyard doesn't mean the dems haven't been actively banning guns every chance they get

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>>31436451
>>wut iz NY safe act
>>wut iz calgungeddon and the 7 new laws that fucked over gen1 bullet buttons and put a whole assload of new insane restrictions.
>>wut iz the fall of connecticut to gungrabbing
>just because things are good in your backyard doesn't mean the dems haven't been actively banning guns every chance they get

>Blamin' Ubummer cuz states passed stuff

>>31436400
>Name one gun law actually passed.
Executive orders creating import bans on russkie guns.

>>31436562
That's kind of reaching there, since those went in hand with other sanctions on Russia for being a bunch of cockbags.

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>>31433806
The status quo for the feds is that anything and everything on the internet is public domain due to the nature of the internet, meaning that the 4th Ammendment and cases like Katz vs US are thrown out the window. Things that are stored digitally are still cool beans, but once said material is shared on the internet, Regardless of how it was shared (Facebook, here, or highly encrypted email to literally 3 people) shit is considered in the public domain and no longer applicable to 4th and 14th ammendments.
Until there is a Supreme Court hearing on this, expect it to be the Status Quo, with VERY, VERY few people knowing aboit this.

Tldr: 4th ammendment doesnt apply to the internet.

Thanks FBI.

>>31436611
If it's publicly accessible on the internet, it's the same as a flyer stapled to a phone pole or a bag of weed poking out of your bag.

And 3D printing files fall under arms export if they are for producing a firearm.

>>31431212
What a terribly ambiguous headline.

>>31431212
Is it an opinion letter or a law?

>>31435601
The Imura wasn't designed by a Japanese guy. It was designed by an American as an homage to a Japanese guy who was prosecuted for making 3d printed blank firing guns.

>>31431212
>http://www.popsci.com/3d-printed-guns-not-free-speech-court-rules?src=SOC&dom=fb
It's fucking plastic, why would you use a 3d-printed gun...

>>31434274
fucking tard, it's a patent number

somebody actually tried to sell these in the 40's

>>31434967
>mypeniscanonlygetsoerect.gif

>>31435715
But they are incorrect. Objective rights must exist, and they must be external to man, otherwise everything breaks down to a simple Might Makes Right, and literally whatever I'm strong enough to get away with is "good."

>>31433938
I tried doing the math for 7.62x39mm. A 3/4" tube has dimensions of 9.525mm OD and 7.747mm ID. SAAMI max pressure for 7.62 is 310.26MPa, which gives a Von Mises plane stress of 1700MPa exerted on a tube of those dimensions. ASTM 304 stainless only has a yield strength of 586 MPa. You need thicker tubes if you aren't reinforcing them or using better steel. Also, the tolerances are crap for the bullet and it's a smoothbore barrel. As a sidenote I found interesting, 5.56x45mm has even higher SAAMI max pressure than 7.62x39mm.

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>people STILL argue about 3d print guns vs zip guns
3d printing guns was a PR stunt to scare liberals and flip the bird to the government. You fucks should not even be discussing their practicality because they're not intended to be practical. Anti gunners think that guns are magic boxes that can only be made by the gun industry wizards. Zip guns aren't possible in their mind. Pic related, and I am not joking, I mean pic fucking related is the level of knowledge that anti gunners have about guns. 3d printed guns are to scare them and knock some sense into them.

So, say I am a federal agency and I sell weapons to mexican cartels. Would this be counted as an export?

>>31435077
>avoiding the argument
Shit Cunts everyone.

>>31435780
Because people somehow after thousands of years of the state being the greatest evil against mankind, still think they can get the state just right.

>>31441515
Big no no.
It only counts as an export if you sell weapons to an "Axis of evil" state.

>>31431264
Bruh most servers like tbe piratebay are placed in countries that are privacy havens like iceland. It falls outside of US power.

>>31433784
Shitty plastic... soon you can get military grade polymer to print with, even metal 3D printing is becoming a reality.

>>31434350
> deserve
Found the liberal cuck

>>31431264
What even is the internet. If you have files outside US, you can't get rid of them in the name of da gubment, the gubment can just fuck off.

Just make an e-mail account outside the US and you're good to store it. Then just download it through a livecd, print on an air-gapped system and you should be good.

>>31434535
so the french has the moon now?

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>>31442460

This is a dumb decision. Just like cryptography, the rest of the world can freely discuss technical details and improve while Americans get stuck in a micro dark age.

At least you guys have a solid industrial firearms capacity and can improve that way.

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Did they not understand the entire point of 3-D printed guns was to undermine firearm laws and render them useless to begin with?

>Irony

>>31432915
because if you're somewhat competent you can use the part you printed as a basis for a metal part via lost wax molding

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>>31442778

This one was made by a guy on /k/. Reportedly works fine.

>>31440265

And is the might of the productive many not greater than the might of the destructive few?

Might already does make right, and if people dispense of the facade of the objectivity the naked interests of people are much easier to comprehend and channel towards mutually good ends.

>>31441686
>even metal 3D printing is becoming a reality.

>$10,000 to print a $500 gun with a rocket part printer

>>31442835

There are a bunch of patents on sintering and stuff that recently expired.

Expect a bunch of new printers using that tech in the near future.

>>31442786
Doesn't molded metal have integrity issues though?

Sorry for my retarded understanding of metallurgy, but that's what I've heard.

>>31442906
It can thats why theres usually a drop forging process after that and before final milling

>>31442906

Cast parts will have a different crystal structure than forged parts, yes. It's also important to make sure you don't get bubbles or anything in the cast or that can cause failure.

However, 10/22 receivers function just fine even if printed out of normal polymers.

http://www.printedfirearm.com/3d-printed-ruger-10-22-rifle-step-by-step/

>>31442850
LMS still takes a shit-ton of energy. Most of that $10k was from the electricity costs.

>The founders who wrote it likely never imagined a world where that freedom of speech would apply to electronically encoded files on computers
Bullshit, blueprints are as ancient as man himself. I'm not even a gun owner, and this pisses me off.

>>31435422
>No idea what I'm talking about

The National Guard is a standing army and not a militia. "state" militias were multiple local groups of civilian volunteers semisimilar to how a volunteer FD works today.

They were not professional soldiers, they were not paid and they were not part of the military like the National guard most definitely is.

Also any law which contradicts the constitution is no null and void.

>>31435422
And the other part of the dick act says everyone 17-45 is in the unorganized militia dumbass. The militia act of 1903 in any way strengthened the idea that every able bodied man is a militiaman by default.

>>31434438
The average person does not have an extra $3k in disposable income readily available, much less 99% of people here.

>>31442786
>>31442949
>>31442975
not >op
what the process of cast vs forged?

>>31432915
It's basically a bunch of nerds providing proof that gun control laws are dumb and pointless, mostly focused around furniture, AR lowers, and gimmick parts.

fuck this thread

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/179192-DIY-Shovel-AK-photo-tsunami-warning!

AK made from a shovel

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>>31444134

Casting: You get the material beyond the melting point and then pour it into a cavity with the final or near-final dimensions of the part. There are a ton of different variations (Investment casting being the best, overall). The crystal structure forms within the confines of the geometry.

Forging: Using force to deform the existing crystal structure of the blank so that it acquires the final or near-final dimensions of the part. The deformed crystal structure makes the part stronger.

Neither casting nor forging will give you as good a surface finish or the dimensional accuracy of machining.

Additive manufacturing techniques (3D printing in its various forms) won't give you as good a surface finish or part density as the above fabrication methods, but allows for geometries that are otherwise impossible, as you don't need to move a tool in and out of the part. That's why engineers and designers love them so much.

>>31442814
If individual rights were left unmolested, there would be no need for collective rights of the many. You would treat the many as a collective of individuals with the same rights, which is how it should be. It's foolish that there is a dichotomy for what should be common knowledge and practice.

>>31435077
> zip gun
Only read gun
> calling anyone else retarded

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>>31444272
>That's why engineers and designers love them so much.

You mean lazy engineers and lazy designers who are too fuck-retarded to put in the effort to design something that can actually be machined or manufactured some other way.

There is ALWAYS a superior manufacturing method than 3D printing. Only thing it's really good for is rapid prototyping.

>>31446198

Anon...

Manufacturability using traditional techniques leads to a LOT of compromises.

It's already much less expensive to produce the nozzles on rockets using additive manufacturing than traditional machining and it allows for better geometries. Components like impellers are another great example of complex geometries that are an absolute nightmare to produce without it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRDg4UB9Ajg

The ability to quickly iterate cannot be understated, either.

>>31446198
Well, not always. NASA has started using Laser-Metal Sintering for complex rocket parts where using traditional welding/bending/cutting creates weak points and flawed joins.

>>31431476
Kek this should be a shirt