France is replacing the FAMAS for HK 416

>>31354291
Yes

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>>31354291
yes

I never understood what was wrong with the FAMAS.

>>31354291
If it means parts kits, yea.

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>>31354353
no

>>31354379
fuck ;_;, what's gonna happen to em?

>>31354329

>be in intense firefight
>mag after mag after
>barrel is smoking
>crack, your optic gets shot out
>time to deploy BUIS

>>31354389
Given to former French colonies/scrapped.

>>31354423
goddamnit.

Of course its a good idea. Local french arms industry cant keep supporting the Famas, they're running on fumes.

but the FELIN initative wasn't a bad idea

>>31354432
>Local french arms industry cant keep supporting the Famas, they're running on fumes.
There is none. The commies killed them all.

>>31354456
Nexter Mechanics is still alive to upgrade the FAMAS to newer standards.

>>31354291
>Do you guys think it's a good idea ?
I think it's just one more example of ARs being master race and countries who are actually experiencing combat and learning lessons from OEF/OIF/GWOT have quickly found out that bullpups are in fact shit and inferior combat infantry arms, so yes it's a good idea.

Bullpup fags have less and less to fall back on each day it seems as more and more countries abandon these failures.

>>31354291
Inferior to the Sig MCX

>>31354505
>MCX
>Can't even fire in full auto reliably due to the shortened operating group so they only sell it in semi
Yeah, no
Good for civilians/police but it has a ways to go before it is ready for military contracts

>>31354501
what about austria and their AUGs ?

>>31354346
It's old and worn out, among other things.

>>31354481
Beretta was the subcontractor for the refit of the FELIN famas.

>>31354346
Same problem with the M9 Beretta. Good gun, old parts.

Come on give us some Famas kits

>>31354569
Austria doesn't do anything, they could be armed 10/22s and it wouldn't change a thing. You may as well have cited Ireland.

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>>31354291
Yes, this is my fetish gun.

Now if I can get one with wood furniture...

Fuck, it'd be like a 5' 8" redhead with a nice T&A, alongside some hips.

>>31354346
Too old, not in production anymore so no spare parts, too heavy, especially when you start adding rails, can't have a cheekweld with an optic, doesn't accept AR mags, can't shoot SS109 ammo accurately... You name it.
Oh, and bullpups suck.

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>>31354379
Now, this is my thing.

So a major firearm manufacturer actually makes a piston AR. It's perfect, doesn't have the carrier tilt problem, all's well. Beautiful, high quality, universal praise. No longer direct impingement.

Why in God's cock do you keep the buffer? And if you do, okay, fine, it's a good stock standard. Why the fuck don't you put it on a hinge for a folder? Who dreamed that shit up?

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>>31354432
I read that as "running on fumas" and was disappointed when I realized that wasn't there.

>>31354353
>Parts kits
>Non-proliferation country like France
you silly bastard

>>31354647
the Jagdkommando sees action all the time in anti terror operations overseas

>>31354291
Amazes me that we manage to have this thread like 3 times a week at this point.

>>31354846
>Why the fuck don't you put it on a hinge for a folder?
Because it wouldn't work, the forward assist would block its movement. If you don't like it, they made a collapsible for the 416c.

>>31354971
Fold on the left, then. Either way, there's ways around it. Don't see a reason to go straight to the collapsible, which is less sturdy, more proprietary, and -

>Proprietary
>HK

Yeah, now I feel stupid, that explains it.

>>31354291
France finally left the FAMAS? Good on 'em.

But the 416 lacks the big surrender handle found on the FAMAS

>>31355032
No more pitiful than any other discussion desu.

>>31355032
because jerking it over loli anime girls is so much more fulfilling in life, right?

Do you think scrapping functional indigenous rifle for shitty foreign AR variant is a good idea? Gee I dunno.

>>31354291
With limitations they set to themselves they have choice between HK 416 and SCAR 16 (FAMAS was not a choice). i think SCAR as rifle is better but don't forget about lowest bidder.

>>31355032
This place here is called the weapons board for a reason you dumbfuck.

>>31355081
>scrapping functional indigenous rifle
It is not functional. France don't have factory producing FAMAS anymore.

>>31354389
Melted to build mosques

>>31355122
>still
the only degenerate here is you
maybe you should go out and experience the real world instead of staying cooped up in your safe little NEET bubble

>>31355081
>Functional
>HoB of 6km when optic is fitted
>No spare parts manufactured in nearly 15 years
>No natural provisions for launchers or lasers, rails have to be awkwardly bolted on where there is space
>Lack of funds and general institutional unwillingness to update designs or issue the few updated versions that were made
Its archaic and needs to go, don't take it so personally that the design wasn't local

>>31354894
if you say so

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>>31354291
Hey /k/, what does the FAMAS look like again?

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>>31354562
Source? I haven't heard anything about the MCX having trouble firing full auto.

>>31354846
I'm pretty sure it still uses a buffer.

>>31355369
Anon doesn't know how a piston AR works

>>31354291
kind of a shame I know all of NATO will go to ar type rifles or whatever comes along but I always thought the diverse arms of NATO where it strength in a way this is disappointing

yes its a good choice.
and it was chosen since it supports french industry.

the steel in the HK guns comes from france.

>>31355081
>functional indigenous rifle
They can't even make parts for it anymore. On top of that, it's unable to be sufficiently modernized, it was always mediocre even among its peers, and development for it has long since stagnated. They have every reason to ditch it.

>>31355369
>>31355378
Well I figured it'd be a partial buffer like the MCX. I've never honestly really seen a takedown of a 416, but I figured that was kind of the point.

If not, then it's just a really expensive, heavy AR with some nice paint and a barely easier cleaning process. Seems perfunctory.

>>31355378
he's kinda right though, HK should have designed a system without the AR recoil spring,
but that kinda defeats the point of the gun, being just a piston AR taking AR parts. and having an upper that can be used on regular lowers.

>>31355398
>hey can't even make parts for it anymore
>>31355179
>No spare parts manufactured in nearly 15 years
>>31355160
> France don't have factory producing FAMAS anymore.
Jesus, did they want to kill this thing off or something? Sounds like they just let it wither on the vine.

>>31355417
Well, that's the other thing. I recall hearing it can't really do that. I've never heard that much, but I recall hearing a lot of the parts are just off spec and HK proprietary, basically. It'll function, but actually commonality is nil, somehow.

>>31355502
The us mr556 is made so that it wont fit milspec parts.

and I think all the civillian versions are made so that they wont fit FA lowers/uppers, and bolts are different.

the FA uppers fit AR lowers and other parts are on spec. not all trigger groups will work since the 416 uses a firing pin safety that is disengaged by the original taller hammer.

>>31355444
A government and public that doesn't particularly care about its military until the moment they are needed.

The SA80/L85 is probably going to go the same way, considering it's practically just as shit as the FAMAS is.
>Lots of rifles just sitting around
>Little industry support and parts available
>No decent gun builders in UK except AI, HK already tried to fix it once
>Improvement initiatives like FELIN just illustrate shortcomings even more
My guess is the British will hang onto it out of frugality and a stubborn insistence that "no, no, it's good!" for as long as they can though.
Probably end up slowly phasing some type of AR platform into service into units that actually see action first.

>>31355444
Apathetic political climate more than anything. I'm sure this new procurement program wasn't on any minds until some military official noticed that half of their service rifles were worn to all shit and there was literally no way to facilitate replacement parts. When the rifle itself has been dead in the water since the late 90's, you're better off just phoning the whole thing in.

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>>31355335
Snickers

>>31355594
I don't really think there's anything mechanically wrong with the design, It could be lighter if the receiver was aluminum and the current rail system is bulkier than it needs to be, but I don't think its as inherently dated as the Famas. Most of its issues are general bullpup issues, which cant really be escaped.

>>31355379
The strength of NATO is in no way linked to the variety of small arms employed by its member nations

>>31355662
>which cant really be escaped.
Except by replacing it with a glorious AR

>>31355662
>I don't really think there's anything mechanically wrong with the design
Mechanically it's probably the worst bullpup ever mass produced alongside and not far behind the FAMAS.
It has a sensitive gas system that is incapable of cycling anything other than NATO spec M193 or heavier, the placement of the selector is absolute garbage, and its consistently proven to be unreliable just functioning, much less when exposed to virtually any environmental conditions.
>the current rail system is bulkier than it needs to be,
They all are, but no military is going to replace 1913 any time soon, and to be honest I doubt anyone is going to make a better rail than the DD.
>but I don't think its as inherently dated as the Famas.
Only because the French never jumped on a FAMAS revamp like L85 had, they're only like 4 or 5 years apart otherwise.
>Most of its issues are general bullpup issues, which cant really be escaped.
But they can be solved by simply abandoning bullpups for a superior conventional layout, as we're seeing the Kiwis do, now the French, and to some extent the British already with the LMT and Diemacos in use by SAS and a few marine units.

Australians are in a similar predicament, but they seem to be insisting on Thales updating a new generation.
The AUG is at least a better and easier design.

>>31354346
No cross compatibility with allies during joint operations since the FAMAS can't use standard STANAG magazines, I also believe it can't use the same brass-cased ammo everyone else uses too. Cost savings across the board switching to an AR pattern rifle since everyone else is using them too.

>>31355754
>But they can be solved by simply abandoning bullpups for a superior conventional layout, as we're seeing the Kiwis do, now the French, and to some extent the British
Chinks are also giving their's up too.

>>31355142
It's still an anime imageboard...

>>31355644
this seems to be more of a criticism on the design idea, but no evidence of it performing poorly. Its not that I don't believe him, but it would be nice to actually see it fail a test

>>31354595
Beretta did the barrels, not the assembly

>>31354291
Yeah it's probably a good idea.

FAMAS is meme trash.

>>31355644
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority

>>31355644
Wasn't the MCX designed around the 300BLK? Makes sense that it wouldn't work will with a 9" 5.56.

>>31354346
It is honestly the second most clumsy military bullpup fighting rifles there is.

I have handled the most clumsy one too. Can you guess what that might be?

>>31355081
Sometimes it is just not a good idea to maintain "indigenous".

HK 416 is a gas piston operated rifle that borrows a couple of features from other designs. However everything that matters in combat with that rifle is suddenly rather original.

Only those ones who actually have handled that rifle may comment.

It's more modern, conventional and it shares more parts with the AR15.

Yeah, sure it is a good decision.

>>31354291
Yes, but I'm shocked they went with H&K. I figured they'd pick the FN SCAR since Belgium is at least kinda French.

>>31357260
F&N is having production problem though. There's a reason civvie scars are getting harder to find due to Belgium putting in a massive order to replace their standard rifle with SCARS. Short of contracting the work out, I don't think F&N could satisfy the production demands of both countries and still provide civilian copies as well.

>>31354562
Tell that to the Orlando shooter. Oooojhhhhh

>>31356241

Tavor?

>>31357469
That's pretty scary considering Wikipedia sources the order at 4,500 guns and puts the total land forces at ~12k soldiers.

Embarrassing for a company like FN to have supply issues at the level they compete at.

>>31356241
FELIN?

>>31357583
>>31357260
>>31357469

see
>>31355559
HK uses french steel, as far as i know FN doesnt

>>31357923
Why did you quote me? >>31357583

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>>31355161
>Mosque made out of guns.
Sounds pretty fucking metal to me, like the /k/ube but with more minarets.

>>31354346
The F1 model had a ton of issues. While the G2 model solved a bunch of them, they were only bought and used by the Navy. Second, production stopped in 2000 with the closing of MAS.

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>>31354846
The 416 was originally designed as an upper that could be dropped onto any AR lower. I'm not sure if anybody's actually bought them in that configuration, but it was originally pitched that way, and that's why it still uses a standard buffer.

There are actually AR folder adapters on the market, but the action doesn't work with the stock folded.

>>31356241
Early L85?

>>31354389
Stored, then destroyed, like they always do regarding military hardware.

>>31354846
>doesn't have the carrier tilt problem

But it does

Muhreens have to send the things back to the armorer all the time to have its buffer tube replaced because they get valleys worn into them.

If they were going to go with a short-strike piston gun, they should have picked a rifle whose bolt carrier was made with a piston in mind.

IE, anything derived from the AR-18. SCAR, G36, that Croat bullpup G36, SA80, etc.

>>31360835
HK416 is still more widespread due to part common with AR15.

>>31354846
That would be too much change. They don't want a different weapon that's better, they want the same weapon slightly better

>>31354716
It looks exactly like any other fucking AR dude

>>31359608
Yup.

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>>31355378

>Talking about yourself

as far as I know, the only mass produced piston AR that didn't still use the buffer was the LR300, which put the spring above the barrel, and required a unique and distinctive handguard, and barrel nut.

Most piston conversions, the HK416 included, just have a short stroke piston, often with a return spring only for the piston itself. The bolt group cycles with the buffer spring like any other AR.

>Do you guys think it's a good idea?

Yes. The 416 works, and the FAMAS F1 is garbage, and they don't even make the G2 anymore anyway.

It's not an optimal idea, though. They could get equally good ARs for cheaper, or better ARs for the price. Or plenty of other options. It's a fucking golden age of competently made samey 5.56mm rifles.

>>31354501
It is true, but it also is hilarious to see China, Israel, or other countries, going the bulpup way. They don't realise they're in for a shit ride of epic proportions.

When in a few years some of their soldiers will only have hearing from one side, they'll begin to understand.

>>31355031
Good thing then maybe we'll start to kick some ass. Especially muslim ass. Oh wait they are already half of our army. oops.

>Mechanically it's probably the worst bullpup ever mass produced alongside and not far behind the FAMAS.
The famas isn't bad mechanically. It's a very simple design. No gas port. Except of course without the good round with the correct pressures and case resistance, you will have problems running it. because of the delayed blowback.

They replace the FAMAS, because it's an old weapon. But also because, when you shoot, detonation is very very close to your ears, and that's very dangerous, there is a lot of acoustic trauma etc..
I'm in the French army.

>>31355417
The Sig MCX did it right, and can take an AR lower with an adapter. In the upper the only AR compatible components are the bolt and charging handle, just like the HK416.
HK is just a bunch of lazy people that can't innovate anymore

We've had the bull pub-discussion for ages and I keep on wondering about an aspect that is hardly ever mentioned. Aren't there ergonomical advantages to a bull pub as well? A full mag of 5.56 weighs around 500 grams. Isn't it generally better to have this behind your right hand rather, balancing the weight of the barrel, than adding leveraged weight that will excert downward force on the muzzle?
Secondly I had the impression that the left hand has an easier job on most bullpubs. You don't have to stretch out your arm as far, to a point where it gets weak, but rather you have a 90° angle that is easier to keep up in a prolonged firefight. Also a foregrip usually is closer to the muzzle which in theory should make it easier to fight muzzle rise. Does anyone have experience in that?
This might not seem like much of a difference, but I could imagine it would come out more in a 7.62 bull pub, especially when you even use a drum or high capacity mag. 7.62 usually can't be used effectively in full auto or burst fire by the avarage shooter. I wonder if a bull pub could make 7.62 viable in automatic fire. This is a long shot. I'd be happy to hear any experience in bull pubs when it comes to controlability in full auto.

>>31361008
Well that's wrong because the worse bullpup is the F2000.

They are NOT abandoning bullpups.

>>31354389
>>31354423
>>31360735

More likely, they will be put in reserve/issued to rear echelon units. Last time I checked, the order was only for 90,000 rifles, not enough to equip the whole armed forces.

>>31361536
>They are NOT abandoning bullpups.
>Replacing bullpup with conventional rifle
Well, what else would you call it?

>>31354456

Why this fixation on commies ? They haven't been part of the government for decades...

It's true that there is almost no small arms production capacity in France any more though... Big groups focused on missiles & tanks & hi-tech cos it was more money, and closed the less-profitable small arms factories...

>>31361547
Americans tend to call commies what we call socialists. After all USSR is the Union of Socialists Soviet Republics, no mention of Communist in there. Although our socialists are not communists but more fascist liberals.

For the old FAMAS, they are not semi auto so they will not be sold to the US as the MAS are currently, maybe we will send them to our good friend Al Nusra...

>>31361541
Nothing has been confirmed. Also, it would be insanity to replace a superior layout with a lesser one.

>Inb4 hurr durr

Bullpups are better because they have longer barrels with less overall length. Stop saying they aren't.

>>31361594
Kill yourself

>>31361594
>Bullpups are better because they have longer barrels with less overall length.
>Barrel length is the only relevant factor when evaluating a rifles merits
But that's utterly wrong.

>>31355644
Vickers is a known HK shill. Furthermore, even if that was true, it's nothing that can't be fixed.

>>31361730
>Vickers is a known HK shill.

Who would have thunk? He literally helped HK design the 416.

>>31354733
>Oh, and bullpups suck

ITT: people that never held or shot a bullpup and obtained their knowledge from other anons on /k which also never held or shot one

>>31361476
>The Sig MCX did it right
>"right"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LFCQVLsrnk

>>31361594
retard

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I support it.

HK needs to turn their rep around after getting their reputation mutilated by their best customer.

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>>31363002

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>>31354481
>Nexter Mechanics is still alive to upgrade the FAMAS to newer standards.
>>31357923
>HK uses french steel, as far as i know FN doesnt

Nexter was in with FN-H's bid with the SCAR.
The SCARs would be manufactured by FN-H in Herstal, but the long term & on base maintenance which was included in the bid was going to be carried by Nexter.

Hence France keeps more money in France if they pick the SCAR option.

FN-H & Nexter have filed an appeal about irregularities in the acquisition process. I don't know if there's been an official statement as to the outcome of this official appeal yet.

>>31359541

Is that the one that totally wrecks your rifle if you fire it with the stock folded? Or is that another one that has some kind of built in safety now?

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>>31359541
>The 416 was originally designed as an upper that could be dropped onto any AR lower. I'm not sure if anybody's actually bought them in that configuration, but it was originally pitched that way, and that's why it still uses a standard buffer.
Yes, some have. The Marines attempted to purchase them that way, and succeeded, but they have fallen into disuse due to some manner of bureaucratic BS or another. I believe some law enforcement agencies did the same thing with better results.
>>31363021
>>31363002

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I will never understand why anyone wants to adopt a rifle which cannot fold its stock... There are half a dozen solid designs available and in the works which are just as good as the HK416 but which have folding stock capability.

(yes, you have some bullshit mods which allow folding stocks, but all of them prevent the gun from functioning folded)

Anyhow, the choice to go for HK416 is likely a political one. Afterall, the frogs already extensively use the SCAR, the HK416 and the SG551. They all get the job done.

>>31363048
That being said, mine is essentially configured that way as well, though I went for a faggoty boutique lower. Truth be told, I actually really like the lower, though I know I could have paid a lot less.

As for the 416 upper? I am pretty much in love.

>>31363002
>>31363021
Why is it on a pistol lower?

>non folding stock
>barrel not chrome-lined
>AR-15
>5.56x45mm NATO
>costs 6 gorillion Francs
>HK
>French """"""""'Armed"""""""""" """""""Forces""""""""

>>31357564
His MCX jammed on him a billion times during the shooting.

Don't buy SIG trash, please. Especially not their disposable AR line.

>>31360986
Exactly.

>>31363106
Because I am not pinning the muzzle device on that barrel. The MR556 guys can do that, but getting the German 416 barrels is pretty much impossible here.

And fuck the complications of an SBR stamp. Especially when I'm moving soon.

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People complain about 5.56's lack of lethality (tangibly linked to velocity) but very rarely complain about the overall length of a 14.5" barrelled AR being too long. The bullpup neatly fills niche of a carbine length individual weapon while still retaining supersonic velocities out to 600yds. People complain about the controls but they really aren't *that* bad. It is very rare that you're in a situation where full-auto fire is more appropriate than semi anyway and the cross-bolt safety is only irritating for placing the weapon back on safe.

As far as my experiences go, the A2 version of the L85 has never had any problems cycling standard NATO SS109 with a rifle length gas block, even after prolonged carbon fouling.

>inb4 muh unreliability

I have NEVER had a stoppage on an HK model L85; rifle lenth or LSW. The unreliability meme stems entirely from the A1 Enfield rifles, which were poorly reverse engineered from AR18s which were unjustifiably unreliable.

Bottom line is; it's still a functional bang stick. Militaries pay for capability, not gucci factor; the primary reasoning behind the US Army sticking with the M4(A1) over the fancier and very pricey Mk16s (Colt kickbacks and lobbying aside). Why turn over your entire stock of perfectly functional 556 calibre small arms and spare parts just to procure another similarly performing 556 calibre rifle?

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>>31359541
>>31363048
>>31363064
Yeah, guy who initially posed the question. Still don't see the point. Especially from the point of view of "lowest bidder" as these contracts always get decided.

Like, does HK just give them to militaries for PSA or Colt level prices and screw the consumers? I legitimately don't see the point of one that's heavier, less-balanced, more expensive, and still needs to use the buffer when there's a billion other AR variants that function just fine with DI.

Like, I understand HK is high-quality and awesome, maybe I need to shoot it and "I'd just get it." But I don't get it at all right now.

Hell, I also literally don't get the function. How does it even work if it's piston but it still needs and uses a buffer and tube? Does it travel lower? Is it essentially just an extended gas key like an LR-300 or some shit? There's AR's that don't need a buffer because they're piston, I don't get this in-between deal.

>>31361476
>Needs an adapter

Uhh no
The MCX is genuine trash. Its SIGs version of a throwaway cheapo AR made for morons who want an AR, but can't into building one so they see the SIG name and like retards they buy it.

The p320 is also a fucking joke, with its supposed """""modularity""""".

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>>31363125
Wait, that's a legit 416 upper?

>>31360827
calling bullshit of this one. unless the muhreens guns are exceptionally shitty custom shit versions of the system.

I have used the norwegian one, aka the earlier models, extensively, and i have never seen asymmetrical wear in the buffer tube, or heard of replacing buffers regularily

ITT: SCAR/Battle Rifle fags shitting up the thread

Folding stocks are a gimmick. Stop being retarded.

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>>31363143

The LR300 has the return/recoil spring above the barrel.
The HK416 only has the piston above the barrel and the buffer tube still contains the return/recoil spring.

You could put the recoil spring around the piston, like a Sig 550/551/553 for instance. But that would also change how pressure is applied on the bolt etc.

A large problem of the many piston AR conversions that you see, if the fact the forces working on the bolt work differently than with direct impingement and that causes all sorts of problems.

I'm sure that HK could figure out a fix though.

PS: for the guy saying HK designed it like this so they could keep using the same lowers, you can still use an AR15 lower on say a LR300 which actually doesn't use the buffer tube at all. So that's not a valid reason at all.

>>31363185
>Folding stocks are a gimmick. Stop being retarded.

I'm not an american soldier, but out here in Euroland, we like stuff like folding stocks for sheer ease of use. Use in vehicles, in storage, etc.
It's hardly a requirement but it's certainly not a gimmick.

>>31363143
>Like, I understand HK is high-quality and awesome, maybe I need to shoot it and "I'd just get it." But I don't get it at all right now.
H&K is very unique as a manufacturer for a number of reasons that would require a book to fill. In short, it's a top notch company that controls QC of every component used in their firearm down to sourcing the steel itself. Everything from A to Z is made directly to their spec. It's sort of like asking why Toyota is so reliable. It's because they are demanding at every point of the manufacturing process regardless of whether or not they own the companies involved and they aren't afraid to drop them.

Additionally, many firearms manufacturers, especially in the American AR-15 market, out there DO NOT manufacture everything in house. They simply source parts from other companies that happen to "meet" their specifications. They do no additional QC checks at their facilities and that's IF they even know who they are.

We could keep going but there's no point desu. I'm not an H&K owner or fan so I see no need to either.

>>31363143
Oh boy. I could write you an essay explaining it all, but it would be a mess as I haven't slept in a very long time. I'll give a quick rundown for now though. The cost of the uppers sans lowers is in fact reduced, and when you're purchasing that many units at a time, the numbers really add up. That's why the Marines (Some unit or another, I forget) tried to opt into it. the rate that HK is giving mil is VERY competitive, and they basically had the bright idea to order the uppers, and strap them to their old lowers, get a better gun out of the deal, and not technically have to change the designation... Except they kinda got caught. Or so the story is told. If legend is to be believed, those 416 uppers are floating in limbo basically.

The piston design isn't specifically to subvert the use of a buffer or buffer tube. It was one of the things that HK thought was a point of failure for the Stoner design, and they solved it as best they could. The thing that makes the HK design remarkable is that they have managed to do it without carrier tilt, which is pretty much the main reason not to have a piston design. (They also thought that the magazines were a fucking abortion, but Uncle Sam drew the line there.).
If you look at the Sig MCX, it has basically half a bolt carrier, and some very peculiar spring mechanisms that are a little more reminiscent of an AK than anything. I'm much happier with what I have.

>>31363155
Yes.

>>31363167
Yeah. That guy is talking out his ass. The Marine armorers basically say "You should replace your extractor every x number of rounds", and even then, it's more a matter of being overly cautious than anything.

>>31363225
And when I say "source their steel" I mean they literally invent their own proprietary steel and have it made. They don't source off the shelf steel. Not necessarily good or bad as plenty of great steels are out there. It just tells you how anal they are about QC.

>>31355594
>L85
>shit

Here's your (you)

>>31355644
>Isn't reliable in full auto
>"HEY CIVILIANS DONT BUY THIS UNTIL IT IS FIXED"
Fucking retard

>muh HK Qualität

>>31363130
>HK model L85
Fuck off, liar. You clearly don't know what the fuck you're on about

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>>31363232
>Yes
FUCKING RICHFAGS GET OUT REEEEEE
but seriously am jelly

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>>31363167
>>31363232
An HK416 buffer tube WILL wear out before 10,000 rounds. Not like you Euros would ever shoot that much. :^)

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>>31363277
You gonna give a rebuttal or are you just gonna be an edgy faggot?
The Enfield and HK rifles have such little parts commonality they might as well be considered separate designs; not upgrades.

>>31363299
I'm no richfag, Anon.

>>31363306
I'm also not European. That's also not a 416.

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Wasn't there some rifle testing a while ago, say a year or less, where some company\military trial'd out the HK416/17 rifles, and it turned out they weren't functioning and worked pretty shit?

I remember there being loads of HK416 BTFO!!!! threads and comparing it to the G36 series of rifles. Poor performance in hot and cold environments, far too expensive, standard\average performance in European climates on par with most AR platforms.

That's all I could remember about it. Of course, I might be butchering or over simplifying the facts. If some other anon could shed some light on what I'm talking about, that'd be swell.

>>31363306
couple of thousand rounds a year in an 8 year old gun, no significant wear in the buffer
only the bolt head and certain springs/extractor and piston will be replaced after 10k rounds

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>>31363319
>b-buh that's not a 416!
Yeah, it is.

>>31363319
>That's also not a 416.
Semantics.

>>31363348
last 416 BTFO i can remember was the vegas machine gun range case.
HK just got the contract to replace the m110s on the other hand.

there were also issues with the adjustable gas blocks on the early norwegian models, making them jam in freezing temperatures with enough fouling

>>31363374
>>31363376
No, it's not. And no, it's not semantics. His whole argument is that he somehow believes that 416s suffer from carrier tilt, and then shows a picture of a random buffer tube that has suffered carrier tilt in hopes of swaying the opinion. But it's a lie. There's two parts in his picture that I can see immediately show that's not a 416.

>Source: I actually own one.

>>31363380
>HK just got the contract to replace the m110s on the other hand.
Literally done because of faggot bureaucrat wanting to extend the shared contract / every manufacturer gets their turn meme from the AF. That's all I'll say on that shitshow of a "competition."

Luckily it's a damn good gun in that role anyway.

>>31363312
>You gonna give a rebuttal or are you just gonna be an edgy faggot?

First off, dickhead, there are no designations for "Enfield" and "HK" parts. Both the L85A1 and A2 were manufactured and created under Royal Ordnance. H&K didn't exist thoroughly when "The Germans fixed the SA80". The reason this meme became a meme was because a subcompany owned and fielded by Royal Ordnance eventually cut away from the company shortly after they went down under, and that company ended up becoming H&K we know today.

Secondly, no serving squaddie would ever call the SA80 rifles as "H&K or Enfield" Where'd you even get that from?

>The Enfield and HK rifles have such little parts commonality they might as well be considered separate designs; not upgrades.
No, that's not true at all. The few fixes from the A1 series to the A2 were the gas piston, working parts and the bolt itself. Jesus fuck, bud.

Not to mention, most of your "information" is little close to falsehood. Your general wording and thoughts clearly show you're either an underage teenage fuck or an autistic adult who has no idea what the fuck they're talking about and only wanted to add in his SA80 argument in case anyone brought it up, which they didn't, so it was pointless.

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>>31363312
18+ to be on here, champ.

Why so much hate?

Piston AR and AK are the future.

Even Stoner himself prefer piston, not pseudo-piston.

>>31363401
>random buffer tube
lolno

http://montrala.blogspot.com/2011/09/6000-rounds-later-good-bye-mr223.html

>>31363401
>>Source: I actually own one.
Then you'd already know it's an MR223. H&K has carrier tilt that will eventually destroy the receiver extension. Short stroke AR-15s are a meme. They even had to relief cut the upper because the piston jams the bolt carrier downward and the AR-15 upper has no way of handling the off-axis forces.

It's shit desu. If anyone wants to find out how garbage they are you can save like $1500 off what HK wants and grab a SIG 516 which has the same issues and was developed buy the same dude.

>>31363426
>Piston AR
>the future
no

>>31363431
>E..every AR-15 destroys the receiver extension and buffer like that.
>P...poorfag!

>>31363441
All the modern western militaries are adopting it, even the damn USMC.

>>31363431
That's an MR223, you twatwaffle.

>>31363436
>Then you'd already know it's an MR223
I have a 416, not an MR223.

Pretty sure we're not talking about the MR223 in this thread?

>>31363446
>every AR-15 destroys the receiver extension and buffer like that.
no

>>31363436
Dude, HK416A5 are pretty much common sights in NATO forces now, if they are so shit, why are they getting contracts left and right?

>>31363457
It's the same shit

>>31363465
What year is that MR223?

>>31363463

Mostly politics. Not saying it'a bad gun though, I really wish they were available stateside.

>>31363456
>even the damn USMC
No they're not. They're replacing the M16 with the M4.

>>31363458
>Not knowing what meme arrows are for.
KEK
>>31363457
Functionally identical according to HK advertising and anyone with functioning retinas.
>>31363463
Militaries don't actually shoot that often. Common sense would tell you that HK is one of really two options for a European made rifle for any military that isn't cuck size. Regardless, only a fool would believe that procurement involves picking what's best.

>>31363465
Not really, no.


And even aside from that, he's referencing a blog where the opening literally says that the user abused the machine, and did not maintain it. I have to admit curiosity about his buffer though. He said:
>Here are some pictures of my MR223 internals after brief cleaning (using paper towels) to show up wear usually masked by dirt.

First lets deal with "carrier tilt". Some pictures of inside of barrel extension (while lines are actually coating discolouration, that were there day 1), buffer face and bolt carrier skis for signs of excessive (or any) wear caused by carrier tilt

Literally, he is saying that there's no issues from carrier tilt.


Thus defeating twatwaffle's whole argument because he found a picture and didn't read.

>>31363511
They are replacing M249 with M27, which is a heavy barrel HK416.

And in fact, they prefer the damn thing over M249.

>>31363306

Actually reading the article before you shitpost might help. Those lines are discoloration from the factory. The author goes on to point out how there are no visible signs of carrier tilt in his MR223 after 6K rounds.

>>31363520
HK is probably the cheaper but more conventional option.

The 416 is basically a piston AR, not too strange but not too old either.

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>>31356241

>>31363520
>Functionally identical according to HK advertising and anyone with functioning retinas.
they are not produced/assembled on the same kines, and HK have had QC with some batches of the civillian guns.
also read the article, those lines arent from carrier tilt

>>31354291
great idea, we should import all the famas for sale in the US, full auto, $2000/ea, Ill take 5

>>31363527
>Literally, he is saying that there's no issues from carrier tilt.
He's a polish retard who can't even see his buffer pin has been blown the fuck out by the carrier.

If there's no issue with carrier tilt why did HK develop a reinforced buffer tube, anti skid pads, relief upper, and a dozen other tricks to try and address it?

The fact is, these guns are destroying themselves every time they are shot.

> pictures of inside of barrel extension (while lines are actually coating discolouration, that were there day 1

KEK! Your denial matches that of the HKPRO crew.

HK is bouncing back with all these contracts.

They even successfully sued the govt on the G36 issue, good for them I guess.

>>31363405
How does that make sense? HK is a foreign company. There is no constituency incentive for their weapons to be purchased over American ones except for instances where they're actually better.

>>31363410
Now, I don't know about the rest, as I'm a cheeseburger American who is unlikely to ever touch any of the Brit bullpups.

However, I think it's a little disingenuous to say that H&K "didn't exist thoroughly" at the time. I hadn't really heard it before, and always thought it was odd they got contracted to fix the thing. However, they definitely existed as a company. They'd already produced their many famous pistols, the legendary MP5 and G3, and even the G36 by then. By way of diversification and mergers, yeah, they were mostly British owned, apparently, but they definitely had a strong, individual presence.

Dunno what that means about the rest, but I'm just saying.

>>31363410
>he reason this meme became a meme was because a subcompany owned and fielded by Royal Ordnance eventually cut away from the company shortly after they went down under, and that company ended up becoming H&K we know today.
That's some incredibly free interpretation of H&K history.

>>31363577
Dude, if these guns are destroying themselves as we speak, why do so many spec op/police/military buy these guns?

Even the muhreen buy them as LMG.

>>31363577
>If there's no issue with carrier tilt why did HK develop a reinforced buffer tube, anti skid pads, relief upper, and a dozen other tricks to try and address it?

can you be any more retarded?
the shit you listed are the SOLUTION to the problem with carrier tilt
its FIXED,
carrier tilt is non existant thanks to the reinforced buffer tube, anti skid pads, relief upper, and a dozen other tricks.

>>31363577
>> pictures of inside of barrel extension (while lines are actually coating discolouration, that were there day 1
>KEK! Your denial matches that of the HKPRO crew.
Those were the words he wrote, you illiterate scrotum. Also, he's not Polish. And his buffer pin shows no sign of wear.

>If there's no issue with carrier tilt why did HK develop a reinforced buffer tube, anti skid pads, relief upper, and a dozen other tricks to try and address it?
Oh god. You poor thing. Please don't leave home without your sippy-cup and helmet. I'm not even going to explain shit to you anymore, as you clearly have learning disabilities or severe cognitive dissonance.

Learn to fucking read.

>>31363577
not to mention that he was so happy with the gun that he replaced it with another mr223.

evidence nigger, the 416 is in widespread use by now, you can surely dig some sources of carrier tilt issues out from somewhere else than your ass

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>>31363410
I never said there were designations for Enfield and HK rifles. Are you honestly that thick that I didn't know their official A1 and A2 inventory designations. I called them Enfield guns because surprise surprise, they were made in the Enfield Lock factory.

HK can't "not exist thoroughly"; it exists or it doesn't, and at the time it was a subsidiary of BAe (not BAE). The REDESIGN - i.e. not the manufacturing, was done by HK engineers. YES, the RSAF manufactured the guns but the uppers are still rollmarked H&K nonetheless.

HK took a barely functional design and turned it into a reliable rifle. "Gas piston, working parts and the bolt" describes roughly 100% of moving parts in the rifle. If you'd ever done anything vaguely in the re-engineering process, you'd know how much of an effort it takes to fix these issues.

I didn't even present any information. If you take a rifle and redesign it, it's a different rifle from the original, that's the whole point "champ".

I'd bet money that you play airshit and lurk professionally you fucking mong.

>>31363418
>Unironically posting this with literacy as bad as yours.

>>31363638
>Guise! W..we fixed it by adding extra material where is was wearing down and couldn't remove material and cut away material where we couldn't add it.
>I...ignore those inferior copies that offer the same bandaids, were invented by literally the same fucking dude, and are thousands less.
>"German Engineering"
Just hear me out. What if, just what if, there was a design out there that had none of these issues, weighed a solid pound or more less, had a 60 year old track record of use by the world's best military, and had expired patents? It's too bad that doesn't exist HK.


>>31363646
>And his buffer pin shows no sign of wear.
t. Blind man

>>31363667
>he replaced it with another mr223.
>evidence nigger
LMAO are you retarded? Look at what you wrote.

>>31361572
>our good friend Al Nusra...

>hurr durr the goverment be funding al qaeda now

>>31354329
>2016
>bare barrel sticking out of hand guard.
Why don't they put rail nr4 on gun nr2 and 3?

>>31354846
This. Why don't integrate a spring in the upper?

When Germany wanted to produce the FAL domestically Belgium refused because you know... it's Germany.

France is just like what could possibly go wrong by having no capacity to produce any of them at home.

>>31363577
>The fact is, these guns are destroying themselves every time they are shot.
Errm, you do realize that every mechanical system destroys itself when it's used, right? Because nothing lasts forever. Everything wears down eventually. The question is how long does it last and what do you have to pay for it. In other words: what is the lifetime and what are the lifecycle costs of a mechanical system? Compared to the M-16 and M4 the HK416 is remarkably sturdy.

>>31354733
Bullpups are ingenious. They make your barrel longer, thus making your firearm more accurate, while not increasing the dimensions of your gun at all. 10/10

>>31365358
>Bullpups are ingenious. They make your barrel longer, thus making your firearm more accurate, while not increasing the dimensions of your gun at all.

Not more accurate, dumbass.
But it does impart more energy on the bullet for the same overall length, thus improving range & impact.

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>>31354329
>the handguard on the bottom rifle

>>31365711

It's the G28 handguard.

>>31363751
>I'd bet money that you play airshit and lurk professionally you fucking mong.

Nice projecting there, dipshit

>>31365383

and accuracy.... possibly... sort of.

Not that guy, but, fun fact: velocity effects spin. Take two bullets, both traveling down the same barrel, with the same rifling. The faster bullet will actually have more spin. This is an absolute ballistics fact.

Faster spinning bullet doens't always mean greater gyroscopic stability, but it in many cases, it does. This is why a 16" ar15 is more accurate than a 10". Too much powder is unburnt in the shorter barrel, so the round losses hundreds of feet per second, slowing it's spin rate and causing it to lose it's gyroscopic stability much earlier. Many bullpup designs do indeed increase the accuracy of a bullet.... but not because they're bullpup.... it's just that a longer barrel CAN positively effect accuracy, and noticeably so. Not arguing with you or anything, just droppin some knowledge in case you weren't aware.

>>31363866
>What if, just what if, there was a design out there that had none of these issues
which had other issues that the piston system solved.
mainly reliability issues in extreme cold and wet enviroments. it also works better with silencers and the gas system length is not a factor to the reliability of the weapon.
the downside is that carrier tilt would be an issue if not adressed.
It was adressed and fixed and is not an issue.

there was, there is and there will still be a market for the gun. so that kinda proves the concept.

>LMAO are you retarded? Look at what you wrote.

the guy said carrier tilt is not an issue.
he bought a new gun so he would have the features of the second batch mr223s.
are you really so retarded that you think the poor sod will buy a new mr223 to replace his buffer tube?
something that HK warranty would have done for him free of charge

get a grip man, I'm sorry your mom wouldnt buy you an airsoft HK, its not HKs fault and you dont have to shitpost here because of it

>>31354581
>>31354619
How difficult would it be to just upgrade the outdated parts?

>Replacing the base as fuck VCR remote that is the FELIN


do they even have anything the remote control is useful for? optics? cameras? universal remote?

>>31356241
I think you might mean Valmet M82. This rifle had some nasty design flaws, which become apparent when you shoot full-auto. When you are aiming at target using the side-mounted sights, your eye is close to the lower edge of the receiver dust-cover. Some of the propellant gas will flow backwards into the receiver during re-loading cycle, and a puff of gas, dust and gun-oil will hit your right eye each time you fire a shot. This gas-flow problem becomes really nasty if you are using a suppressor.

Is the HK416 better than the M4? It looks exactly like it.

>>31355378
Nigger what? Is it just me or is there a massive wave of retardation the last few days?

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>piston AR
>Buffer tube

I think it's a good idea, the Famas has a high fire rate and hard to control recoil. The HK416 otherwise know as an M416 has low recoil, decent fire rate, and great build. Dosen't have jamming issues like M4's and feeds great. US spec ops use the Hk416 or so I've heard and prefer it over an M4 or M4A1. I would take a HK416 over a Famas any day

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hacking isis

>>31363348
Norwegian HK416s has been in the blistering cold of Norway and the extreme temperatures of Afghanistan and Iraq with absolutely no trouble.

>>31363530
that's ludacris

>>31372068
>M416
uh, no

>>31372543
Da fuk?

The Norwegians have had a shitload of issues.

>>31363380
>last 416 BTFO i can remember was the vegas machine gun range case.
That was because they were using a non-chrome lined barrel. Their HK416 clone (Titan Defense, I believe) performed flawlessly which is a testament to the robustness of the HK416 piston system.

>>31373410
Not anymore.

>>31363585
Now if they just open up shop in America...

>>31373439
That would require an uncucking of Germany.

>>31373442
Impossible. HK would be better off abandoning ship in Germany and moving to America.

>>31373464
As long as they keep the quality like Glock and not like lol Sig then yeah.

America also has some pretty good local piston AR design.

>>31359541
I need to grab one of these for my Akdal. Thing uses AR furniture (thanks to the custom lower I installed) so I'd love to give it a folding stock.

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>>31354291
I thought that was a GSG 9 exclusive weapon.

Decent stats tho, but the FAMAS is definitely better.

>>31354291

No. Sig mcx or fn scar or diemaco c8 but not the bolt carrier tiltomatic

>>31363119
How do you even know that. Besides wouldn't they have tackled him and ended the shooting.

>>31363564
>Filenames

What are they?

>>31363143
HKs are expensive here because of German and US taxes. Their handguns are glock prices in Europe.

>>31356241
>>31370283
Fair enough. I have never had M82 in my hands.

On the other hand it's a yet another Finnish unicorn and was never basically issued anywhere.

I'd still say L85 is The Utterly clumsy bullpup ever issued to any military. Which is ironic because Brits have historically had quite useful guns in their armory.

>>31361533
No, anon, F2000 is very smooth and solid rifle.

Granted it is weird to the point some people will never get over it, but still very smooth and solid.

>>31354501
Wtf is wrong bullpup?

>>31363130
>too long
for what?