Planes

File: North_American_F-86_Sabre.jpg (338KB, 1796x1113px) Image search: [Google]

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>>31352107

F-86 because it's sexy as fuck, and radar assisted guns. .50cal was also replaced by (4)20mm in later variants which were better overall. More stable as well, and overall the pilots were better.

>>31352192
Better pilots made it. Look at the kill ratios for Sabres to MiGs, most MiG pilots were barely trained enough to get the thing off the ground. Not to mention Sabres racking up hundreds of antiquated Yak-9s and Tu-2s.

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The Mig had a lot more firepower, but the pilots generally didn't have the training to make use of it.

>>31352225
The MiG's guns were too slow for most jet combat, it was designed as a bomber killer, trying to lead something tiny and fast like a fighter without any computer assistance and very little ammo is a real pain.

>>31352210
>Look at the kill ratios for Sabres to MiGs
If I was willing to look at American propaganda, I'd be watching TV right now.

>>31352242

Velocity of the guns wasn't really the issue, it was the ammo loadout. A 23mm cannon is far superior to a .50 cal for any type of air to air combat, but with such limited ammo the pilots would really have to pick and choose their shots.

Dat 37mm tho.

>>31352304
>If I was willing to look at American propaganda, I'd be watching TV right now.

>kill ratios don't matter because muh feels

Fuck off retard.

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>>31352107
>Who's better and why?

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>>31352312

Any reason as to why 20mm and above cannon shells in air to air combat weren't proximity fused?

>>31352329
>Kill ratios reported by Americans
Totally legit, no reason to distrust and question brainwashed cattle on the internet repeating half a century old McCarthyist propaganda.

>>31352107
Korea prove that's mig-15

>>31352373
At worst it was 1:1 ratio for USA and even that's embarrassing for USSR and China because USA was flying over fucking Mig Alley.

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>>31352107
Better question

F-86 vs F-100

Which is sexier?

>>31352409
More like embarrassing for the US, since Americans are the only ones who are still desperately repeating their propaganda. Damage control as it is, must be really annoying losing to gooks.

>McCarthyist propaganda

You don't know what you're talking about.

Not even going to give you the (You)

>>31352492
>More like embarrassing for the US, since Americans are the only ones who are still desperately repeating their propaganda. Damage control as it is, must be really annoying losing to gooks.
Yea nah. Soviets, gooks, and chinks combined couldn't win a against USA. That's even more embarrassing and pathetic.

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>>31352489
F-105.

>>31352329
They were in America's favor, but nowhere near to the extent that was claimed before we got access to Soviet archives.

>>31352543
Judging by the list of flying aces Soviets alone #rekt the US. But that's not as pathetic as losing to gooks.

>>31352373
Yeah, i'd rather believe the soviet/chinese kill claims of destroying more jets than ever deployed to the theatre.

>>31352562
>Judging by the list of flying aces Soviets alone #rekt the US. But that's not as pathetic as losing to gooks.
Not as pathetic as your comrades dying to American aces and losing. Did I mention it was 3v1? Soviet trash is trash.

>>31352192
>radar assisted guns
How did that work?

>>31352373
gun cameras....also the fact that most original f86 pilots had multiple confirmed kills in WW2 and had no reason in increase their number

This tread full of fatniks
MiG-15>F-86

>>31352589
It took American aces to shoot Soviets. It took gooks to shoot Americans. Half a century later a brainwashed American is still just a brainwashed American.

>>31352611
That's statistically impossible

>>31352611
More like the fact that kill ratios reported by Americans ain't worth shit.

>>31352614
you're trying too hard, be more subtle

>>31352630
>It took American aces to shoot Soviets. It took gooks to shoot Americans. Half a century later a brainwashed American is still just a brainwashed American.
There's no need to buttmad. USA annihilated gooks and chinks. Soviets provided a slight challenge but nonetheless Soviet/Chinese/Nork northern aggression was suppressed. I hate to say it, but you lost, comrade.

>>31352639
not really no. Many of our pilots were recalled to fly in the Korean War who had been placed into the reserve at the end of WW2.
>>31352642
better than the Red side, who as another anon said, reported more kills than aircraft in theater. Not to mention, after the first year, Allied air superiority was basically assured.

>>31352665
More like the US had hard time dealing with gooks and got their asses handed to them by Soviets.

>>31352630
no it took Soviets to shoot Americans, because they thought they might have better luck than the North Koreans. Well, after Russian fighter pilots started coming home in boxes with not many kills to boot, it started to become clear that Russian pilots were totally outclassed in the sky.

Where did the Vatnik shitposting come from?

>>31352697
>not really no. Many of our pilots were recalled to fly in the Korean War who had been placed into the reserve at the end of WW2.

Let me rephrase that. Statistically implausible.

The distribution of aircraft kills in WW2 was heavily lopsided in favor of a few aces, something on the order of 50% of kills were from 10% of pilots. It is statistically implausible, based on this distribution, for most Korean War pilots to have claimed multiple kills in WW2

>>31352697
Coming from a brainwashed American fed with half a century old propaganda.

>>31352704
>More like the US had hard time dealing with gooks and got their asses handed to them by Soviets.
Clearly not since there's a North Korea and South Korea. Soviet shit, Chinks, and gooks couldn't win unless you're posting from an alternate dimension.

>>31352704
when did the Soviets "hand our ass to us" in Korea? They had what, maybe 5000 people in the AO the entire war?

>>31352721
American damage control as it is. How does it feel knowing the US pilots got #rekt so hard Americans have to repeat half a century old propaganda to this day just to ease the pain?

>>31352355
Less penetration?

>>31352743
Clearly yes, since burgershit was falling down from the sky like dead rats from mere gooks.
>>31352763
When their pilots blew the fuck out of the US.

>>31352731
something like whats 40 aces in the war, I think over 20 were WW2 vets, so plausible yes, sorta...impossible, not really as the military "asked" those pilots to return to flight status...but then again i don't know the hard numbers so i could be wrong here.....more than the Reds though, they have like 5 pilots all with 15+ kills, even when those pilots themselves will deny those numbers.

>>31352192
Nice warthunder history faggot. The F2 never saw service because itms guns kept blowing up and melting due to high fire rate, the recoil broke spars in the fuselage during sustained fire, and it was all around a shitty upgrade.

>>31352595
Radar would ping the aircraft, compute a lead, and project the lead on the hud.

>>31352792
>Clearly yes, since burgershit was falling down from the sky like dead rats from mere gooks.
Actually it was Soviet shit falling from the sky. You're a little confused about the history of the war. I'm not sure if they have books in whatever poor country you're from, but let me refresh your memory.

1. Gook shit got blown the fuck out by USA
2. Soviets had to intervene and got blown the fuck out too
3. Soviets were shit and China finally intervened.

In summary, Soviet shit were blown the fuck out.

>>31352792
>>31352766
Once again, where did we get rekt? The final kill ratio was over 10:1 in favor for UN forces. Where are you guys getting this US BTFO. If that truly was the case, they did we continue to send planes to Mig Alley if it meant a death sentence to our most experienced pilots?

>>31352803
That's what implausible means, dumbass.

That something is not impossible, but nonetheless unlikely

>>31352851
No it wasn't. The ratio was still positive in the favor of US and other UN forces, but it was less than 10:1

>>31352828
In the 50's???????

>>31352107
>Who's better and why?

Depends entirely upon which version of F-86 you're talking about. Early F-86s were inferior to the MiG-15 in most aspects, however the F-86E and F-86F were in turn better than the MiG-15 thanks to the addition of the all-flying tail and uprated engine, giving them greatly improved high-speed maneuverability. The all-flying tail design wouldn't be a feature on production Soviet fighters until the MiG-19.

>>31352492
You do realize this is pretty much a solely American board right?

Considering whatever shithole country your worthless seed inhabits can't be trusted with firearms.

>>31352834
>>31352851
American spewing out rancid McCarthyist propaganda. Breaking news.

>>31352997
How is this McCarthyist, this has nothing to due with propaganda. US forces were fighting under the UN flag, like you can literally request records from the UN stating what the air kill ratios were from the Korean War. Once the Russians realized they weren't going to have to put up with NK shit anymore, they declassified lots of info regarding their role in Korea. Propaganda would be what the russians originally did, which is take some of their pilots who were flying in theater and give them over 20+ kills each, which makes no sense as in many cases the timelines of the kills didn't match up with the disposition of forces deployed to Korea in the first place.

>mig15
>made to intercept bombers

>sabre
>made to counter mig
>made to fight over air supremacy

gee i wonder whats gonna happen :D

also didnt the burgers fight inexpirienced chinese pilots at the begining of the whole war ?

>>31353169
No they fought inexperienced Norks. Then Soviets saw they were being assblasted and started "secretly" flying their squadrons. The Chinese came later.

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>>31352549
>>31352489
Nah, F-101

Mig-15 climbed better and had better high alt performance.

Sabre turned better, rolled better, had better weapons for fighter vs fighter combat, much better sights and was generally more pilot friendly.

They were both good but Migs required a better pilot to use well.

>>31352355
Probably expense, plus small payload makes it not worth the effort

The Mig-15 was probably the better plane, but it's weapons load out was based on retarded ww2 german setups that made it largely shit.

>>31352630
>Half a century later a brainwashed American is still just a brainwashed American.

While the USSR is nonexistent, and North Korea is a Haiti-tier backwater.

>>31352814

I've never played Warthunder. Just quoting a Sabre documentary I watched the other day.

>>31352880
Oh yes. Pretty sweet stuff

>>31352353
The F86. Just it not being slavshit alone makes it better.

>>31353734
let me guess, american produced

>>31353150
Awarded Hero of the Soviet Union.[26] Various sources credit Pepelyaev with 19, 20, or 23 aircraft. Of the issue, Pepelyaev claimed he was "absolutely sure" of only six of his victories, of which he had seen only two of the aircraft crash into the ground.[9]

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>>31352880
Computing gunsights weren't new in Korea. The Lancaster even had a radar-assisted one in its tailgun by 1945

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>>31353198
Exactly. And after the Cold War was over, the Russians got butthurt, and decided to pull number out their ass.

>We totally kicked America's ass in Korea. We just hid the numbers and totally made no mention of it for over 50 years until now.

>Nothing will ever wreck MiGs, right comrades?

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>Oh look, another "X' vs 'Y' aircraft" thread again
>where in there are people who actually think one of two similar aircraft is 'better', and should "auto-win" against the other
>literally no one on this board understands the art and science of air combat, or the tactics of two aircraft turning into each other in 3 dimensional space

>>31356420
HighSpeedLowDrag.jpg

>>31352814
Yes they did king spastic. They had atleast 10 from what I can remember offhand.

10 plus years of research and reading secret reports...leads me to : Stalin wanted the airwar to test his shit against americans. Americans wer at first shoked and dismayed by the appearnce of the Mig15 and scrambled to deploy the slower F86as as fast as possible.
in interviews the Russians brag a bit too much.files were not kept as tight as US but US flirs were alwatys exaggerating for a Mig kill. it was sport for them. ONe touch of cannon could drop a sabre. many hits were necessary to take down the aerial tanks(15s)

>>31352353
Warthunder has taught you all the wrong things

>>31352355

Because a 20mm wasn't big enough at the time.

The fuse you are looking at is bigger than a 20mm shell, it was fitted to the top of a 127mm shell.

If you put a proximity fuse in a 20mm, you have no room to put the explosives.

Only recently have we made high velocity 40mm proximity fused munitions.

>>31352107

Have to side with the MiG on this one. The 0.50 in caliber guns on the Sabre were not powerful enough to compete with the 30 mm cannon on the MiG.

>>31352997

What we do know from post 1991 archives is that the Soviets state they lost 335 Mig-15's, the Chinese say they lost 224, and the Norks lost about 100.

The Soviets claimed 600 kills, the USAF says they only lost 78.

The USAF claimed 792, and the combined Soviet+Chinese+Nork archives say they lost 659.

What conclusions you draw from this are up to you.

>>31352107
The Hunter was fully the equal of the F-100, just as the Tornado GR4 is to the F-15E and the F2 to the F-15C

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>>31359663

>just as the Tornado GR4 is to the F-15E

Does the GR4 even have BVR?

>>31359663
underrated post

>>31359607
12.7 MP is easily enough to fuck up a thin-skinned jet aircraft.
What matters most is
-Rate of fire, given the short engagement times against a fast moving, maneuvering target
-Leading gun-sights.

Nobody is denying the punch 23 and 37mm cannons give, but their low RPM and ammo capacity makes them more suited towards killing bombers(something several B29-crews found out) and not so much against a fighter-jet sized target.

>>31352210
>Look at the kill ratios for Sabres to MiGs
Different missions, dumbfuck. MiGs were there to kill bombers and kill bombers. Sabres were there to kill MiGs.

>>31359956

The 0.50 in guns on the Sabre also had an unfortunate tendency to jam after maneuvering.

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>>31359607
The whole reason the MiG's had cannons was for...... wait for it......bombers.

The Mig had better performance at the start thanks to Rolls Royce. However.

It's weapons load out was shit. Russia basically copied the 262 and was scared of US bombers when they armed it. 30mm sounds nice, but low rate of fire, and a short range in jet combat is fucking stupid.

The 50cals were weak but you had a high rate of fire, and far more ammo, giving newer pilots more chances to just spray and pray. Unlike the mig pilots who ran out of ammo fairly quickly. Lucky for them they had a plane that was faster and could climb better.

>>31365119
A perfect example of someone, probably because of warthunder, who thinks he knows what he's talking about, but actually knows nothing

>>31365173
lulz never played it

>>31356526
Dassault makes beautiful planes.

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>>31359607
On paper, cannons are better for a fighter.

In practice (the Korean War), the 50-cals were just fine, but then again American fighters went to 20mm guns.

Even the F-86H replaced its six fifties for four twenties. Pic related.

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>>31365229
They were great even before the Mirage III masterpiece.