Cannons Legal??????

>>31347591
blackpowder = not a firearm

Black powder, muzzle loading cannons are legal and not even considered firearms or destructive devices.

There are certain field guns that are legally just firearms, not destructive devices (like the 50mm krupp mountain gun.

Bumping for interest.

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>>31347591
Any muzzle loading artillery, no matter the age, is considered an antique, even here in NJ. So you can own it without license or permits. Breechloaders for sure are also antiques if they were made before 1896, but afterwards it gets into a very grey area. If it's a modern reproduction of a design from before 1896 it's probably legal with no permits needed, but nobody has tested that area with manufacture. Any breechloaders designed after 1896 (a la, a French 75) is a destructive device and needs to be federally registered.

Here you go:
http://www.ima-usa.com/original-late-18th-century-bronze-2-pounder-cannon-with-oak-naval-carriage.html

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HOLY FUCK SAUCE THEY'RE LEGAL!
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/784380_Black_powder_cannons_are_legal__and_non_DDandapos_s__right_.html

>>31347591
Anything that isn't loaded using an "enclosed case containing the projectile, propellant, and primer" is not considered a firearm.

So a muzzle-loaded cannon is perfectly legal for a five year old to have shipped to his or her door no questions asked.

>>31347671
hehe , idk about 14k tho

>>31347647
but the krupp uses cases and is breech? how is that not a DD ?

>>31347714

Could be worse:
http://www.ima-usa.com/original-british-rml-2-5-inch-jointed-mountain-cannon-the-screw-gun.html

>>31347741
Because it has a specific exemption; there's a bunch of guns that in factory spec are exempt from SBR laws because they're rare.

>>31347753
so if its BOUGHT as factory made , its exempt ?

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Now the better question is, how does /k/ use cannon on the modern battlefield.

>>31347742
Could be a lot worse. This estimate is less than what it sold for. Add another $50k to the high estimate and that's about what it went for.

http://jamesdjulia.com/item/2037-373/

>>31347786
No, the guy used rare factory SBRs being exempt as an example. The ATF just decided to exempt the 50mm krupp for whatever reason (it might have even only exempted the saimese ones), and it can be in whatever config and condition.

Of course, if you change it from factory configuration (say you might it on a new carriage or something) it MIGHT change its c&r classification. That only impacts 03 FFLs getting it shipped to their door though.

50mm kurpps gun
http://jamesdjulia.com/item/2137-373/

$63,250

I'll have one of these someday

what you guys know about hommade canons just out of curiosity

>>31347806
/k/ doesn't use a cannon at all. There are incredibly dangerous and you have to know what your doing. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm the only one on /k/ that's fired muzzle loading artillery live and in competition.

>>31347916
You are using the same weapon that put Napoleon in the history books. It's a BIG gun and should be respected, but what are some of its uses today?

>>31347916
When I was young, we used to make bamboo cannons. You take a length of bamboo and pour calcium carbide in one end. Add water and light a match on the other end. Calcium carbide + H2O produces ACETYLENE. Add fire, equals boom boom. We used to be able to buy calcium carbide from sundry shops but nowadays, such bamboo cannons are banned. I fondly remember my grandpa and his neighbours forming a 'battery' of the bamboo cannons and competing with other batteries for the loudest bangs.

>>31348262
Carbide shooting is actually pretty popular in the Netherlands, right around New Years. We use old milkjugs stuffed with a football or their lid, and then you light 15 of the fuckers.

Some idiot Frisians actually skipped this baby-tier stuff, and went to a 2000+ litre bilge tank (for cow shit and such) to use behind tractors, opened an acetylene tank (used for welding) into it, ran like fuck, and detonated it remotely. That motherfucker broke every single window in a 2km radius - and it's completely legal. Well, they had to pay for the windows, but that's all.

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Can I get canisters of grape?

>>31347806
funnel them in front of it

>>31348376

Well damn.

Anyone have a design for a breach loading black powder cannon? Has anyone made a full scale cannon out of stainless steel?

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>>31347642
>blackpowder = not a firearm
not a firearm = no right to bear

>>31348546
>Only firearms are arms!
No. Right to bear arms also includes non-firearm weaponry.

>>31347786
No, the ATF decides on a case by case basis if a specific historical firearm gets an exemption.
I think "likelihood of possessors to be dog lovers" is their main criteria.

>>31347912
Light fuse, goes boom.

>>31347963
Full the barrel with shot and you can hunt a LOT of ducks.
It's a good noon bell.
It's an efficient way to transport small goods.

Waiting for a cannon home defense story.

>>31348823
>there goes the neighborhood

>>31348546
Shut up with that libshit thinking!

The ATF might hear you and get ideas.

>>31347668
Yes they have people make new breach loaders all the time. As long as it cannot use cased ammunition. Look on YouTube

>>31347591
Bongs can also own them, hilariously.

>>31348376
At least get your terminology right, it's a stand of grape and canister. And grape was made obsolete by canister.

>>31349631
I know people have made them, I've met a guy that has made a Williams gun and at least 1 other Civil War breechloader for himself, but talk to any lawyer and it becomes a very grey area that no business wants to go into. That's the reason why, to my knowledge, nobody has made a reproduction Whitworth breechloader. It's a grey area because loading a Whitworth and others is essentially the same as a modern 155mm howitzer; open breech, insert projectile, insert powder charge, close breech, insert primer, fire.

Come with me

and you'll see

a woooorld of pure imagination

http://steencannons.com/cannons/

>>31347709
Wait then does that mean things that shoot caseless aren't considered firearms?
Forgive me if I'm retarded

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>>31350239

>$4,500 for a totally legal mortar with a max range of 1,200 yards

you know what

>>31350309
You have to pay 500 DD tax or so for every HE round for it.

I think.

>>31347714
make one out of an old air tank then.

>>31350335
>$500

all NFA transfer tax stamps are $200 except AOW which are $5

additionally, for DD munitions that have explosives like HE, you would need an APPROVED bunker AND an explosives license, AND you would be subject to some state and local level resrictions.

however you could fire solid projectiles for free.

>>31350448

Could I hollow out the solid shot and use them for totally legitimate black powder storage purposes?

[That wick is just to keep the powder in, I swear.]

>>31348332
That sounds awesome

>>31350448
i should add that i have no idea how you would get an HE mortar or canon ball, they were originally only made with black powder and fuses and unlike modern canons and artillery there is no surplus market where you could find "parts" to cobble something together.

Moreover, no fuzing mechanisms ever existed for HE in canonballs or BP mortars, and nigrigging HE inside a canonball or such would be exceptionally dangerous.

>>31350477
i honestly dont know how that would be regulated.

its probably a destructive device because youd be putting an explosive (BP or otherwise) and fuse in an item designed to amplify the explosion and expel shrapnel, but i dont know if they'd require you to have a bunker/explosive license for just a BP device.

>>31350477
even having that stuff around together could be considered constructive possesion.

>>31350537
Can you build a legal pipebomb?

>>31350335
But there is no such thing as a HE round for muzzle loading artillery, and you'd be an idiot to try and make one. You'd run the risk of blowing up the gun with every shot for literally no purpose.

>>31348546
its not a right to bear only firearms. its a right to bear ARMS. cannons are arms.swords are arms. arms.

>>31350553
yes, you have to get the approval from the ATF first and pay the stamp.

again, depending on the explosive you use im not sure how they would regulate it. I would imagine that even for a BP "device", that you would have to have at least some type of basic approved "storage".

there is actually a guy on gunbroker who sells registered pipebombs without any explosives in it. so basically a $200 pipe.

>>31350553
also, "yes" is contingent on how your state regulates DDs.

some states dont allow NFA items.

>>31350289
>Kraut spess magick for everyone

>>31347963
home defense

>>31347963

best korean army involuntary retirement facilitator

>>31348546
>no right to knives

Aaaaand ya blew it

Would a black powder cartridge loaded weapon be considered a firearm? Or are just muzzle loaders exempt from ATF regulation?

>>31347642
>Blackpowder = not a firearm

Be careful with this. Many states, if not most, go a step or two further and require that in order to be an exempt antique, the blackpowder weapon also be a REPLICA, which case law defines pretty strictly as being in all ways functionally and visually the equivalent of the original. Add attachments, optics, buy a modern in-line muzzleloader, and you're out of the definition. In Florida, for example, there is even case law that mounting a fiber optic sight on a muzzleloader makes it no longer a "replica."

So, depending on your state, you could have at least THREE requirements for an "antique" exemption that makes it no longer a firearm:
1) Old or exact replica of old
2) Primitive ignition (percussion cap, flintlock)
3) Blackpowder

t. - lawyer who defends people who get locked up for "felon in possession of a firearm" because they bought that spiffy CVA inline to hunt with, when they also have a 20-year old felony possession of 1 oz. of cannabis case.