US Green Berets Refuse orders to train Rebels

>>31332677
They're referring to the battle of al-bukamal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_al-Bukamal_offensive

>>31332677
Kek

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>its not that they dont want to train them because of moral issues
>they dont want to because the militias are incompetent

I'm proud of these guys, not even joking.

>>31332677
Does anyone know how to get around sofrep's paywall?

>>31332952
By not being poor.

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>>31332925
real American patriots

>>31332677
Who here has membership? I need this green text format to read this. Shit's interesting

Part of me does wonder why someone would go through the application, training and deployment process of being a Green Beret than decide that the entire job description is something he disagrees with.

You get into that, either through government or the private sector, and you have to train and work with some very unpleasant people.

>“I don’t want to be responsible for Nusra guys saying they were trained by Americans,” the Green Beret added

>"I am hinting toward a book deal and some soft media interviews where I disclose things everyone already knows", the Green Beret added

There are some real scum out there in Syria, like every other war. They very well might be the next Jihadist group, but every group in the Middle East trained by western troops in the past 30 years has been as bad.

>>31332677

>Arabs
>Brave warriors

pick one

>>31333055
It's one thing to train rebels in Vietnam to fight the Vietcong, it's another thing to train middle easterners to attack Americans.

>>31333125
No one there signed up to train the South Vietnamese. The bulk of them will have joined in the late 1990s and onward, and unless they lived under a rock they knew what was happening around the world at that time.

You do what you're told. Part of Special Forces soldiering is that you have to do things that are outside the remit and ability of regular troops.

The guys at the School of the Americas had no qualms. The ones training the ANA/ANP, Iraqi security forces etc had no problems either. You're in that line of work, you know what you deal with and that's all there is to it. You can leave the politics to the higher ups, because that's not what you're there to do.

I don't think the US government, or anyone, should be training anyone else in Syria. I agree with the man, but he's certainly in the wrong career if that's his lot now.

>>31332677
The question is, when will the US government learn?

The Kurds are literally the only trustworthy group in the Middle East.

Every group the US government supports are, or become jihadists.

Some people say the US government is evil; it's more likely that they're just stupid.

>>31333168
Part of being in the military is also knowing when to say no to an order

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>>31332677
> US troops LITERALLY refusing to follow orders

Jesus fuck, you can't make this shit up. And ameriboo's wonder why people always say that their ground combat troops are literally one of the worst in NATO.

>>31333170
>Kurds
Devil worshiping, woman cutting (men too), commies.

Nah, fuck them too.

>>31333187
U.s. troops not willing to do what goes against the Constitution and the betterment of America

>>31333187
weak b8

>>31333187
You tried.

>>31333216
Little to late after Eisenhower.

>>31333264
It's only too late if you never do the right thing

>>31333082
A little people, a silly people-greedy, barbarous, and cruel.

>>31333187
OK, I'll bite. Why would they comply with orders to train radicals that will use their training to massacre Christians and further destabilize the region?

In 2013, people were saying "Hmm, we really shouldn't be funding these rebels since they have known ties with Islamic radical groups, one being Al Qaeda." Then in 2014 when ISIS formed everyone acted surprised like it wasn't in the making for a year already.

Disregarding that even, why should Special Forces waste their time training rebels who would kill them in an instant given the chance?

>>31333360
>he fell for the "US did ISIS" meme

Nigga, they're direct descendants of AQI.

Their leader was detained by US forces in 2004.

They got big because the Iraqi Army dropped their weapons and ran away, and Sunni tribal leaders welcomed them as liberators from the Al Maliki and Assad governments.

>>31333380
I think ISIS could have/would have happened either way but I just hate to think my country helped them at all.

>>31332677
>not following orders like good little animals

no bennies for you!

>>31333399
I frequently wonder whether ISIS would have been crippled or turbocharged if Obama hadn't flinched back in 2013 after the Ghouta attacks.

He had a casus belli, international support, and plenty of forces in the region.

He decided to kick it down to Congress rather than intervene unilaterally, and Congress didn't want their names on any new wars.

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>>31332677
Absolute bullshit propaganda.

If you told them to train retarded pigs, they would comply. Green Berets do no disobey orders.

>>31333447
But they did

>>31333462
>mouthing off to a web rag while complying anyways
>muh alpha male personality
>muh honor
>muh independence from the political class

>>31332954
>shilling for a douche who was a SEAL instructor who lied about his cervix and rips off his writters

Yeah, totally dude I'll pay 50$ for shit open source content

>>31333441
Yeah, you really can't decide to not do anything.. Inaction is worse than making the wrong decision.

>>31333197
Your not slick Turkey

>>31333197
>All Kurds are PKK

Do you know how I know you're a nigger?

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Green Berets are idiots. They will get what is coming to them.

Hillary already has a brand-new ballgame in store for Syria.

>>31333462
No. They did not.

>>31333546
>SF
>Idiots

Found the guy who failed SFAS and is now an admin clerk in the 82nd

>>31333549
Yes they did to

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>>31333546
>Hillary already has a brand-new ballgame in store for Syria.

I'm sure they're frightened.

>>31333635
They will be.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/29/hillary-clinton-will-reset-syria-policy-against-murderous-assad/

Our next President has the courage to shake things up in Syria.

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>>31333567

>>31333526
Spoken like a true neocon.

>>31333706
I'm hardly a neocon, ideally the US wouldn't be worried about it at all but since they are maybe they should have done something differently.

>>31333549
Proof?

>>31333706
To be honest, if Hillary outright invaded Syria, seized both Assad and Al Bagdadi, and then sent them to the US to be tried in federal courts, I'd vote straight ticket Democrat for the rest of my life.

People are fucking with us, and a country like the US can't have people afford to fuck with us and get away with it forever.

>>31333768
>it's bad when Bush does it
>it's OK when Hillary does it
Syria would be Iraq 2.0 and 10x worse with the amount of ATGMs we've indirectly pumped into that area. EFPs were bad enough, I wouldn't want to be worrying about my vehicle taking a TOW as well.

>>31333768
Damn, calm down, Mr. Neocon.

>>31333055

>sign up to kill kill bad guys
>bad guy gets elected
>bad guy tells you to become bad guy
>"no thanks"
>it's ur job man!

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>>31333546
>Hillary
>being elected
HA

Do you live under a rock or do you just eat the spoonfuls of shit the MSM feeds you?

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>>31332677
>2016
>paying to read some stupid article
nah, thanks i'm good

>>31333830
You actually think Hillary won't win? You're delusional.

>>31333830
The bookies are giving it 3-1 odds.

If you think different, go ahead and bet on Trump.

>>31333656
>Syria is fucked up
>let's destabilize it even more
>instead of making friends with the only man who can keep Syria under control

This is what Hillary shills actually believe

>>31333946
>making friends with a genocidal dictator

Shoo, shoo! Dumb Drumpf supporter.

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>>31333855
I don't think her parkinsons ridden ass is going be able to stand up for debates.

And yes I think the populist reform candidate with rallies filled with 20,000-30,000 people breaking records and pulling democrats over the isle left and rifle while also brining out peeople that have never voted is going to beat the corrupt Neocon that is dying on national television as democrat turnout plummets and scandal after scandal occurs in her camp.

Even the clinton news network can't act like everything is fine when he takes the lead in key swing states.

>>31333792
>>31333795
My proposed operation would go like this.

In "Operation Niggerstomper" conventional forces based out of Turkey, Iraq, and Jordan launch massive armored spearheads towards both Damascus and Raqqa.

Air interdiction, friendly local forces, and possibly airborne forces are used to prevent the movement of key personnel.

US forces simply grab every key Syrian and IS leader, and then withdraw from the country, as the US sends an official communique to the Russian and Iranian governments saying "good luck, faggot."

Future US presence in the region is built purely around helping the governments of said countries prevent the ensuing chaos in Syria from spilling into their country.

Since everyone involved in both of these organizations is a war criminal, we simply extradite them to the US, try them in federal courts under universal jurisdiction, and then put them in Florence ADX.

>>31333973
>left and rifle
autocorrect

Right

Just google "hillary empty rally"

that does not happen to trump


She cancels events because she cannot find enough people to zoom in on and act like it's a crowd

>>31333971
We lost the initiative, dumb fuck. The only winning move now is not to play.

>>31333985
>Assad
>War criminal

Okay Neocon

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Why does no one listen when I say we need to bring big brother's "soft terror" to the middle east?

Every single living arab in occupied territory will be registered, with biometric samples collected. The battlefield will be feature rich with leads to investigate, for example recruiting and families supporting terror.

Big brother knows who was on the battlefield, who his friends are, who and where his family is, and can go "investigate".

I'm guessing smuggling weapons for terrorist groups would be a ticket to a secret prison. I had Vietnam in mind when I formed the opinion, but there are advantages to that kind of data collection.

Imagine the army of analysts trying to figure out how in the fuck ISIS is recruiting in the ME.

>>31333971
>displacing dictators and destabilizing regions

So you want more of the past 40 years?

why don't we just kill every leader in the middle east and open up the floodgates to europe and give free plane tickets to the Us?

Oh wait that's what they are trying to actually do.

>>31333971
>Drumpf
Transphobic deadnamer

>>31333985
>Let's destabilize a country, create chaos, and leave it to everyone else to solve!

Damn, that sounds so fucking American.

>>31334018
>muh baby Assad dindu nuffin
>implying there would be a war in Syria if Assad wasn't a total dumbass

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Just saying, it looks like it is impossible for western forces to prevent terror groups from recruiting from the civilian population, and they obviously aren't willing to kill them all--so, something out of the ordinary will be required to end an indefinite war.

>>31333055
>They very well might be the next Jihadist group

It's pretty much an open secret that the "Free Syria Army" is just a front for various ISIS factions.

>>31333891
And the polls had carter up 15 points a week before Reagan beat him in ever state but Minnesota

>>31334041
Nigga, we ain't no babysitters.

We have neither the resources or the inclination to be the solution to all of the world's problems.

What we can and should do is make sure that if somebody fucks with us, we do are best to make sure they are personally harmed.

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>>31333187

>>31334041
>Damn, that sounds so fucking American.

But it's not, the American people are actually sick of interventionism. hell the democrats spent the bush and early obama years screaming their heads off about it.

Now that their choice is clinton they have gone quiet on the matter but if Trump was pro interventionism you can be sure as shit they would be openly against it.

>>31334060
If you think it's the case, there are people taking bets.

I'm seeing somewhere between 65% and 75% odds for Hillary depending on the site.

>>31334105
I am not a gambler so I don't really care what those degenerates do.

>>31334102
>But it's not, the American people are actually sick of interventionism.

Yeah? Maybe they should stop electing politicians who support interventionism.

Oh wait, they won't. Hillary will win, and US foreign policy will continue as usual.

>>31334125
Trying to but there are lots of dumb dumbs that want socialism and don't care how the government rapes their country as long as their stamps and scratchers are available

I think we have a good shot of the presidency this year but we should also be focusing on outsiders downballot

displacing Ryan would be nice.

>>31333125
But we trained the vietcong as well.

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>>31334125
>thinking that elected officials are voted in or beholden to their constituencies

Well get a load of this guy...

>>31333055
>They very well might be the next Jihadist group, but every group in the Middle East trained by western troops in the past 30 years has been as bad.

And just maybe that's what they're saying they're sick of doing?

>>31333380
US literally did ISIS though
Like this was a long ass policy to overthrow Assad, to murder christians in the area to appease the jews, to empower jihadists to appease the muslim lovers in the US government like Obama & Hillary...

>>31333768
Literally nothing wrong with Assad other than the jews hate him.

>>31334113
>degenerates
You're on the wrong board
Gambling is for cool kids

>>31334160
Universal suffrage inevitably turns into a corrupt kleptocracy

Not sure how removing suffrage from non-whites or women will be achieved, gonna be hard to do in a democracy.

>>31334402
>>31334051

>>31334533
>American NGO's stir up protest
>American/mossad snipers shoot police and protestors
>America dindu nuttin, muh moderate jihadists

>>31334519
I have plenty of gamblers in my family and none of them are "cool" in my opinion.

>>31334525

>Not sure how removing suffrage from non-whites or women will be achieved
balkanization after the system collapses.

>>31334542
DIN

>>31334559
>Assad trying to improve his country
>Assad protecting minorities
>America allies with jihadists who murder any christians or shias they can get their hands on
>America allies with the VERY PEOPLE WHO DID 9/11
>America orchestrated a mass flood of these sunni jihadists into europe, call people who dislike this muslim invasion "islamophobes"

You globalist traitors will get whats coming when Trump starts to clean house, I see a mass purge of thousands of corrupt fucks soon.

>>31334552
Balkanize what? America includes too many ethnic groups for balkanization.

>>31333971
>Genocidal dictator
He's really the only person in that country actively protecting the minority groups, and the fact thar fucking Russia is looking like the good guy is extremely telling who is in the wrong right now.

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>>31334589
This. Clinton, Soros, and all the assholes who caused all this death and suffering one the middle East and in Europe will pay. If they never destabilized those countries/ arm any person who said they were against Asad, we wouldn't be in this mess.

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>>31333447

>>31334603
Regions disagreeing heavily over restoration policies, most likely under previous political lines so probably a few states deciding that staying with the sinking ship nation is retarded

>>31334623
America has been the bad guy for over 1 century, progressives are as evil as evil gets

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>>31334589
Very much this, and it sickens me to no end.

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>>31333187
Haha, this is some great bait

>>31333546
What's her plan, to leave them all there to die?

>>31334105
Huffington Post and Washington Post are horse races at best, kiddo

>>31334105
Yea its free money

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>>31334185
If only the Constitution actually protected anyone.

>>31334054
Just so you know, that picture is absolutely beautiful.

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>>31332677

FUN FACT: The reporters moved that kid's body to get a better picture.

>>31333187
That excuse didn't work in Nuremberg, it won't work ever again.

>>31334934

You gotta be shitting me, I hope you got some proof for that claim

>>31334934
Shoes look different

>>31333768
>try Assad in US federal court

for what? the guy has done nothing to us.

>>31335005
Because all you see is the sole. which in both pictures is that dull reddish pink.

>>31333170
This whole "Kurds are good guys" meme needs to stop. They're no better than any other faction in the Middle East.

At this point in time the only group I even have even a little bit of support for is Assad's regime. At least he'll try and keep the fuckers in check.

>>31333985

go to bed Prince Saud.

>>31334934
>>31334994

What sort of proof do you expect me to have beyond the photographic evidence?

Videotape of them moving the body? A taped confession by the reporters?

I suppose its possible that two kids of near identical proportions wearing the same shoes and shorts washed up on shore that day; but the odds are slim.

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>>31333526
Yeah...Iraq worked out so well didnt it, friendo?

>>31335032
Nice try Bashur.

>>31333768
As an Iraq vet, let me be the first to say, you're going to get a lot of young men killed thinking like that.

Nice loyalty you have in your soldiers there americux

>>31333546
She is going to infect them with her pneumonia, dropped down a flight of stairs?

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>>31334589
>mfw you realize the country you love are the bad guys of the 21st century...and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

>>31333971
As opposed to just genociding the region ourselves?

At least if Assad does it, we don't have to hear "America is duh real terrorits guise" for the next 15 years.

>>31333971
>Openly supporting a gun grabber
>One that literally helped draft one Assault Weapons Ban

Get out of here Europoor cunt.

>>31335093

Its Bashar.

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>>31335093

Its spelled Bashar

>>31334054
File name kek

>>31335093
anon is right. Dude is secular and his faction is at least based on 20th century values.

>>31335128
>bad guys of the twenty first century
>when there are much worse places in the world

Protip, incompetence isn't malice.

>>31333184
This is a real sticky wicket.

One of the most important developments to come out of the Nuremberg trials was that "I was just following orders!" is no longer a valid defense. Everyone is ultimately responsible for their own actions. (Right, everyone knows that, can't duck responsibility.)

However that puts soldiers in a lurch when they've got to evaluate the legality and ethics of every order they receive. (How the hell can anybody really know everything about the total dimensions of the multifaceted problems they're dealing with in a warzone?)

Back in the day, you were responsible for the commands you issued. Now you're also responsible for the commands you obey.

I'm not positing any profound ethical revelations here, I just think it's an interesting conundrum.

>>31335196
>Everyone is ultimately responsible for their own actions.

Strange how that was systematically applied only to the "bad guys"

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>There's still people/media think Syria is an ""''arab spring '''''

>>31335013
He said "boy" to Obama once, that rascist needs to be stopped at all cost.

>>31335241
this. it's pretty obvious the whole thing and libya was fabricated by us defence contractors

>>31335196
It's a simple concept man. Either you disobey orders and get shot as a traitor, or obey orders and get hung as a war criminal.

The key is to pick the winning side.

>>31335159
nah senpai...to get more involved in Syria now, after the shit storm we created in Iraq and Pakistan (Afghanistan was already a mess) is plain evil.

>>31335251
s m h doesn't he know how demeaning and bigotted it is to call a black person "boy"
every person in the world needs to be educated on the sensitivities of american blacks...

>>31335263
oh shit...forgot about Libya. Clinton was defending turning them into new Somalia the other day.

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>>31333187

>>31335305
What a brave american torturing and executing prisoners of war based on lies & propaganda from his government.

>While serving with the 7th Engineer Brigade in Eniwetok, Marshall Islands, on July 21, 1950, Woods was accidentally electrocuted while attempting to repair an engineer lighting set.

Karma, piece of shit, hope he went slowly.

>>31335342
go back to your internment board and wait to be gassed.

>>31333656
>Be Hillary
>Promise to start a war with Russia
I mean, we should, but the cassus belli is in the Ukraine, not Syria.

>>31333768
>seized both Assad and Al Bagdadi, and then sent them to the US to be tried in federal courts,
They'd both be found innocent. None of the evidence against them is actually admissible in court. All of it that isn't hearsay is irrevocably tainted by chain of custody problems.

>>31335455
Why should we start a war with Russia?

>>31334402
>long ass policy to overthrow assad, etc. etc.
Ah, I finally see the light. We obviously invaded Iraq so that we could actually knock off Assad! Its so genius!

>>31335536
because of their malignant imperialism? not that I'm gung ho for war, particularly not with another nuclear power, but still.

>>31333830
The dug up corpse of Ronald Reagan would have a better chance of winning this election.

If only because he'd keep his foot out of his damn mouth.

>>31335536
Because we, Russia, and the UK are required by treaty to respect the integrity of the boundaries of the Ukraine and Russia broke the treaty, invaded Ukraine, and annexed Crimea.

This was the deal Russia agreed to in order to prevent the Ukraine from remaining the third largest nuclear power in the world. If they want to play takie backsies with their treaties they can give back the nukes and get used to actually being a regional power.

tl;dr: We have a treaty with the Ukraine, we're not even legally allowed to not be at war with Russia right now.

>>31334060
>And the polls had carter up 15 points a week before Reagan beat him in ever state but Minnesota
Mondale. Carter won in Five other states, plus DC.

It was still a pretty ugly landslide though.

>>31335570

Americans complaining about russian imperialism? I'm an American and even that shit's dumb.

I really don't understand this decisions the left is making with russia. It's like they want another cold war with ivan when we should be being business partners as the titans of this fucking rock.

>>31333971
Oh for fucks sake. They're not fucking ready for democracy you stupid shit. I didn't particularly like Ghaddafi or Saddam, but they kept their countries from chimping out Jihadi style as they are now. All we needed to do was keep them contained in their little tin pot dictatorships, and the world would've run smoothly and we wouldn't be dealing with the fuckmongous mess that is Iraq and to a lesser extent Libya. Yes, Assad is a dictator. But at the moment, the opposition winning would be absolutely catastrophic for both the country and the region. Most of the secular rebels are either dead or are now enjoying a nice status as "refugees" someplace. What is left are jihadist fuckbags little better than ISIS. There's also the Kurds, but they're infinitely more interested in securing a northern slice of Syria for themselves. That leaves the rest of the country to jihadists, which will almost assuredly cause de-stabilization in Lebanon, Jordan, and Iraq (probably more but that's just off the top of my head). You don't have to like Assad or the Russkies to understand that our current course of action will have a negative outcome.

>>31335570
>Russia protecting their sphere of influence in a country that's part of their backyard

The US does the same shit.

>>31335624
>superpowers
>non-obsessed with conquest, pissing contests, and sociopathy on a cultural scale
pick one

>>31334589
>America allies with the VERY PEOPLE WHO DID 9/11
Are you a fucking idiot?
>when Trump starts to clean house

Oh. You are.

>>31335653
Drumpftards are idiots, and /k/ is full of them. Just ignore them.

>>31335455
>the cassus belli is in the Ukraine, not Syria.
but the US invaded Ukraine first with a coup attempt

that's like shitting in your neighbour's cornflakes and shooting him when he knocks out your tooth

>>31335667
>m-muh killery muddafucka
>u-ur a dumb
Bleach in mouth now please

>>31334542
>American/Mossad snipers
Can I see some proofs?

>>31334648
>Over 1 century
So the USSR were the good guys then?

>>31335570
I have no love for the Russkies, but so far the fuckery in Ukraine at least to me is not enough of a reason to go to war with them.

>>31335772
You're American. It should be more than enough.

It is in your blood, in your culture, to hate Russia.

>>31335667
Well you see, on one hand there's a candidate who might at some point turn on the 2nd amendment. On the other hand, there's someone who has stated on several occasions that she's openly hostile to law abiding gun owners and will more than likely attempt to push another AWB through. Its rather obvious where /k/ is going to stand.

>>31333168
>You do what you're told. Part of Special Forces soldiering is that you have to do things that are outside the remit and ability of regular troops.
>The guys at the School of the Americas had no qualms. The ones training the ANA/ANP, Iraqi security forces etc had no problems either. You're in that line of work, you know what you deal with and that's all there is to it. You can leave the politics to the higher ups, because that's not what you're there to do.
>I don't think the US government, or anyone, should be training anyone else in Syria. I agree with the man, but he's certainly in the wrong career if that's his lot now.
lolno
you dont even deserve a real response

>>31335781
As I said, I have no love for the Russkies. I remember the amount of fuckery they pulled under Communism, and Putin's current attempts to push the envelope as far as how much he can currently fuck with us. My opinion of the country is rather low. However, I see no reason to go to war with them at the present time over the current set of circumstances that are playing out. Putin can rattle the saber and vatniks can shitpost online, but that doesn't actually hurt us much in any way. Unless there's a valid, concrete, verifiable threat from the Russians then I don't see a reason to start putting American lives on the line. And at the moment I see little to no threat.

>>31335802
>Its rather obvious where /k/ is going to stand.

Yes, with Gary Johnson. Libertarian for life!

>>31333168
There's a difference between the guys you listed and the guys in the article realizing that the guys they were training were literally ISIS-lite.

>>31335834
>Gay "Gats in the trash" Johnson
Yeah, nah.

Keep your Manchurian candidate

>>31335834
Oh I wish. But Johnson isn't much of a real libertarian, and I'm afraid he may be on the side of the gun-grabbers this time around. Which is a shame, I'd love to see the Libertarian movement gain more ground. It just sucks that this is how it happens. Fuck this election

>>31335691
>this is what vatniks believe
Russia fucked with Ukraine first with their puppet government sabotaging any trade deal not heavily favoring russia.

>>31335827
Violation of nuclear agreements.

>>31333197

turkroach pls go

>>31334402
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!

>>31335932
I'm aware of that, but if we were going to intervene it should've been right at the get go. Using the treaty as a cassus belli at this point in time would be rather weak.

>>31334402
Well. ISIS' creation is much more complex than "America did isis". True the root cause is America's intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan but by about 2008-2009, the region was extremely different and looking towards stable. Iraqi views of America were mostly positive and jihadism was dropping. Then things took a bad turn, iraqi gov't made terrible choices. In particular they closed down the internment camps while at the same time flippping policy towards anti-American, and refusing to pay and support the FSA. The FSA was the largest, and most successful militia at combating terrorism in iraq. These guys depended on american and Iraqi gov funding to continue their work. Both of those sources dried up almost overnight. They iraqi government figured they could handle the situation without foreign help or the help or 'mercenaries'. They were wrong. Members of the FSA who were barred from military service (a large percentage), had very few options; Move to America, leaving behind almost everything; do nothing and find yourself killed by the very men you helped capture; or join those radicalized men and vent your anger and frustration at being stabbed in the back.
This directly led to the creation of isis.
The largest blow to the stability of the region was America's withdrawal.

>>31336080
True, i shall concede to that. But this how russia operates. After this, no nation will enter into any sort of deal without guaranteed military assistance.

>>31336198
I'm assuming when you're referring to the FSA in Iraq, you're referring to a different organization than the current one in Syria. Could you further explain? I'm of a similar opinion, at least regarding the rise of ISIS in Iraq and the latter stages of the Iraqi insurgency while we still had boots on the ground in-country.

>>31336217
Oh I know Putin used it as a wonderful opportunity to test the waters and see what he could get away with, I just think that the opportunity to use the treaty as a prompt for military action has passed. It now depends on Russia's next move.

>>31336218
I'm sorry, i meant the Free iraqi army not the fsa. Two totally different organizations. One's a front for isis designed to get western help, masquerading as 'moderates'. The other was integral to US COIN ops in the late 00's.

If assads forces are taken out expect FSA to announce first cessation of hostilities between themselves and ISIS then them swearing allegiance to ISIS.

>>31336253
Thanks for the clarification.

>>31336229
I do think that was a brilliant bluff on the russian side of things. However i expect that next time the US response won't be sooo... Non existent. Of course next time won't be ukraine or the other two nations "protected" by this agreement.

Turkey would be my best guess as to russia's next play on "stopping nato expansion and aggression" as the vatniks put it. Recent events being a good time to begin buddying up. US foreign relations are lacking.

>>31336270
No problem, I'm on mobile and FIA autocorrects to FSA for reasons. I just typed 'free iraqi army' out to clarify. Sorry for the confusion.

>>31333546

www.professionalsoldiers.com

i think you should discuss that with these guys.

>>31335834

>libertarian

Leftism lite.

>>31333971

genocidal dictators is how the middle east functions, you myopic fuckwit. that's their culture. that's what they need. brutal rule.

either we give it to them or they give it to themselves. guess which is cheaper.

you disgusting trash sub-human.

>>31334021

why not just exterminate them. it'd be less effort.

>>31333197
Found the roach.

>>31335130
>>31335847
>>31336357
I-Is this what it feels like to be triggered? You people can't seriously be considering voting for TRUMP?!

He's a racist, xenophobic, Islamophobic bigot who does not value America or its freedoms. Not only that, but he will make the US subservient to Moscow!

What happened to the Libertarian /k/?!

>>31336466

you're an idiot. your thoughts are all wrong.

xenophobic isn't bad.

racist isn't really bad but he's not anyways.

islam is bad.

he's the only one who's even willing to say that america should continue to exist.

he's the only one with any american spirit.

we're not subservient to moscow just because we're beginning to realize that russia wants to be an ally and put the past behind us. they're truly not evil morons who want to kill us.

trump is going to win and people like you are going to be steadily and thoroughly marginalized until you have no power and are considered retarded freaks.

>>31333946
They overthrew Assad because he was a puppet leader. New gas line goes up, puppet leader starts thinking about cutting the strings.

Iraq II starts.

Literally the SAME FUCKING SHIT.

THE SAME FUCKING SHIT AS HUSSEIN.

AND FOR SOME REASON THE CONSERVATIVES ARE THE ONLY ONES AGAINST THIS FUCKING THURSDAY NIGHT RE-RUN.

>>31335732
what kind of a fucking idiot are you

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>>31334058
Ask me how I know that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

How are the kurds that have been trained by american forces doing?

>>31333187
How can it be the worse in NATO when it's the only force in NATO?

>>31333055
>every group in the Middle East trained by western troops in the past 30 years has been as bad
That's why they don't want to train them anymore retard

>>31333187
Eurofag detected
Eurofag who doesn't recognize the difference between a soldier saying that what he is ordered to do is retarded and not following his orders
Eurofag who obviously wasn't part of NATO too

>>31335601
I don't get it, why us? Where the fuck is big bad EU where this is literally happening on their front lawn? I really just want the US to step back a bit and actually let other "powers" do something.

>>31333197
Turkey pls.

>>31335378
Go back to your safe space where the US are the good goys

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

>>31333447
I see nowhere where they aren't following orders
Just bitching about them (justifiably at that)

>>31336690
>Idiot who doesn't know that US soldiers have to follow orders no matter what or get shot for treason.
Americans are barbarians.

>>31336692
The US is the leader of the free world, and the sole remaining superpower.

We involve ourselves in everyone's business, so it is our job to do something.

>>31336707
Name me a good guy country that has some sort of power or influence on the world stage

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>>31333656
ALARM ALARM
LIBTARD DETECTED
CHARLIE BEHIND THE WIRE
PURGE PURGE PURGE
There, did you get the b8 response you wanted?

>>31336724
But we're not that good at it ir we're losing the touch for it.

>>31333768
grab two foreign individuals and take them to a us court when you don't have the jurisdiction or right to do so ? fuck off world police

>>31335305
Should have borrowed pierrepoint from the brits.

>>31335342
Kraut detected

>>31336731
You've got me there

>>31336712
Heard of Bo Bergdahl?
A lot of us want to shoot traitors, but it seems that we don't no matter what anymore.
Now go back to being assraped by your precious Muslims eurocuck

>>31335278
I won't deny American intervention seriously fucked up Iraq, but Pakistan pretty much did that to themselves. They've always had their own agenda regarding Afghanistan.

>>31335638
More or less you can't deal with those people and keep them in line without being willing to occasionally straight up murder a couple thousand of them.

>>31332677
Just fucking glass he shithole and repopulate it with less shitty people.

>>31335747
In a fucked up way they kinda where. I mean when it comes to nations NO ONE(nation) is a "good guy".

>>31332677
>trusted news and intelligence
>Watch: A-10 gun-run obliterates terrorist motorcycle gang - BRRRRT!

Yeah. Nope.

Besides. Any outlet that advertises that they are trusted or the truth are full of bs.

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>>31333197

>>31336504
US foreign policy for the last 3 decades has been "Put your dick in EVERYONE'S business" then being confused as to why they keep kicking us in the sack.

>>31336731
There is no "good guy" country. Never has been. Historically speaking it's all dick waving and killing. Winners saying they were "justified" and "the good guy" so they can sleep at night.

>>31334021

I agree with this.

>>31336373

That's arguable. To be honest the suggested course of action would enable the US to develop those techniques in an active warzone as well as allow them to develop new techniques and tactics that can be put into place for future conflicts.

>>31336987
Switzerland and Sweden are good guys

>>31335290
So nigger would be wrong as well?

>>31336904
The sad thing is that's really the only way to really end it. Their or our total obliteration. Maybe alien invasion.

>>31333971
Daily reminder that muslim majority countries need a secular dictator to keep things in order

>>31333656
He's a dick, what about all this 'liberty' shit you yanks bang on about?
Then again why am I bothering, I'm talking to a nation that willingly supported Pol Pot because they were still sore towards the Vietnamese.

>>31337010
Even with Sweden go back a couple of centuries and you'll find more than a few countries who would disagree with that sentiment.

>>31337010
Sweden has blood on it's hands look to the Viking era, and Switzerland does too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Switzerland
Though Switzerland does seem to REALLY try to keep to themselves.

>>31334072
Stop causing problems then. Withdraw militarily from every country on planet, just go home and sit in the continental US and leave everyone else to it.
You preach that it isn't your responsibility and yet your country can't resist getting involved.
You can't do both.

>>31337045
Yep.

>>31334041
The Giraffe in Damascus was quite successful in destabilizing his own country. Not our fault.

>>31337054
The cock gobblers that own the shit head polititcians keep draging us to war.

>>31335067
>on shore that day
No proof that it's the same day
>What are the odds of two small. children drowning in the sea
Pretty good actually.

>>31336466
I am a libertarian, and probably always will be. However at the moment I cannot stand Hilary and Johnson, while he is getting more people on to the Libertarian side of things, isn't much of a true libertarian and is softening quite a bit of what being libertarian means in order to pick up Sanders supporters and the like. I'm not exactly happy with how things have turned out, but Trump just happened to be the lesser evil in this circumstance. I would give a more drawn out answer, but after seeing your posts I'm pretty sure you're either baiting or doing something to that effect in order to draw /k/ out.

>>31336526
All I'm asking for is evidence, not Alex Jones-tier conspiracy shit. Just because shit goes wrong and cops overreact at a protest doesn't mean it was DA JOOS/CIA/NWO.

>>31332925
Man the concept art for broforce is fucking dope.

>>31337010
Turn the page back a couple hundred years and that's not really the case.
>>31336707
Oh we never really were. No superpower is truly "good", they just know how to paint things in a somewhat positive light to make their actions look justified. The Rome did it, the HRE did it, the Ottomans at the height of their power did it, the Spanish/British/French/Portuguese Empires did it, etc. In the world of geopolitics/realpolitik, you leave the concept of good/bad at the door. I'm well aware of the blood on my country's hands, I've just come to accept it and acknowledge that everyone who was powerful at some point did/does to some degree. Because at the end of the day other than the Iranians, no one's going to give a shit that we blew an airliner out of the sky. Hell we were far from the only ones doing it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007

>>31337253
Spot on.

>>31333971
>genocidal dictator
>ISIS turns Syria into Afghanistan 3.0, no really, it wont be just like Iraq guys

I bet you believe Bernie lost fair and square too.

>>31336912
>no one is a "good guy"
That's given, however I refuse to acknowledge Marxism (or however it was practiced) in a positive light considering what it did to Eastern Europe and other countries. The conundrum is that while I do think communism on a global scale needed to be countered, the guys doing the countering had some really fucked up and stupid ideas on how to do it.
>>31337054
>withdraw from every country on the planet
Fine, but if we see someone trying to attain superpower status or try to push our naval boundaries (which are quite substantial), then expect to get your shit pushed in.

>>31336466
these kind of arguments were old by the time Bernie got pushed out of the race, you should really come up with something new.

>>31335342
>m-muh nazis dindu nuffin!
>day was good boys, dey di'n commit unspeakable acts of mass brutality on innocent people
>it was all just baseless propaganda!

They deserved worse, you filthy kraut

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>>31334961
B-but it did

>>31337253
I know

Being born in '93 I never lived through the cold war, did you?

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>>31333055
>>31332677

>Americans finally realising THEY are the bad guys
>The evil empire is finally crumbling

Delicious

>>31336712
what if the orders are to commit treason?

>>31334021

>dat pic

Hnng

>>31333985
>US forces simply grab every key Syrian and IS leader, and then withdraw from the country
>simply

Yeah because we got Saddam and Quaddafi really easily it didn't take months and months of dedicated effort in a permissive environment or anything.

>>31337636
>Saif Qaddafi plan to democratice Libya
That's pretty golden. You happily run a dictatorship for decades and when your position is really threatened you go, "it was just a prank bro"

>>31332677
>hey guis, I'm totally not from /pol/, you can trust me, just look at my cool and totally not edgy picture

>>31335156
>Dude is secular and his faction is at least based on 20th century values.
Ya know people around here used to say this about the whole fucking country... ya know, until it came time to try and actually help the people of Syria by giving them refuge, then it's all fearmongering about muh terrorists and rapists.

I thought if we gave into fear the terrorists win? Or is that only if I don't buy a new TV and SUV?

>>31336707
Man, it doesn't matter what your argument is, you're defending Nazis.

You are on the losing side.

>>31335342
>Karma
Honestly the dude just sounds incompetent. He fucking electrocuted himself!

>>31334633
>>31334589
>>31334542
Fuck off /pol/, there were massive military defections at the start of all this, away from Assad, because he was deliberately targeting civilians with shelling and bombing. They didn't go jihadi, they were legitimately pissed with the regime. There were tonnes of high-ranking officers fleeing the country early on as well.

And then they all came back to Assad's side after the jihadis took over the rebels.

I seriously can't tell if you people are retarded, baiting, or just from /pol/ (I guess that's the same as retarded). Because people who've been hanging around the /MEG/ threads know the actual history of the conflict.

>>31332677
This picture upsets me, because it would be the woman saying that the muslims that raped and murdered her daughter don't represent Islam

>>31335156
>Dude is secular and his faction is at least based on 20th century values.

The only thing nice you can say about his government is that at least they didn't engage in systematic active genocide. Some 20th century values.

>>31335241
It was
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbeuYtFmcyQ
there are a trillion of other examples

People wanted reforms. They just don't want them at any price.I mean dictatorships in general would be impossible if people didn't have a strong affinity to life.

>>31332677
Obama administration at work.

God..I hope this nigger and Hillary being hanged for war crimes and treason.

>>31337305
Who are you quoting?

>>31336466
Here's a fun and terrifying fact....

If Trump is elected President he will be entitled to receive top-secret security briefings, the kind the sitting President receives, for the REST OF HIS LIFE!!!

The sleazy fuck will sell what he learns to Russia at the first chance, and that's assuming the US survives his time as President, since he's a walking scandal. His display of his diplomatic skills by visiting Mexico resulted in them firing their foreign affairs minister because the people were so outraged.

>>31333082
The people fighting in these groups wouldn't be able to join a western military for a whole host of reasons.

Is it surprising, then, that they're running away?

>>31338177
>Point out the military defections
>in dozens of threads, noone ever replies to this... ever...
Shit, it's like you guys know it's true, or something!

>>31338134
Same with this.

>>31338263
>as opposed to a women who is literally known throughout politics to be a snake in the bush.
>give a spiteful and evil woman nuclear codes and the secrets that she hasn't learned about yet (considering she knows quite a bit of stuff she shouldn't already)

Yes! Vote for H! Vote for corruption beyond a scale of comprehension.

>>31335747
>>31336912

here's the dirtiest secret: there might not be a "good guy"

it's fully possible that everybody was acting in a destructive, dishonorable and selfish way.

Maybe USSR did win the cold war seeing how far the moral decay has eaten away Western foundations.

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>>31338263

You guys get paid to lurk on /k/?

So pathetic.

>>31333055
>Why don't they just blindly follow orders and prop up our enemies?

ITT: filthy fucking statists

>>31337054
Last time we did that you niggers started 2 world wars that killed hindreds of millions of people. And sneak attacked us twice.

Stupid world nigs forgetting they are just as fucked up as us.

So, why not just train the rebels incorrectly?

>>31332677
>“I don’t want to be responsible for Nusra guys saying they were trained by Americans,” the Green Beret added
Good to see the soldiers have been keeping up on the news.

>>31333197
*turkposting intensifies*

>>31332925
Shame the Brits are the only ones to have ever done this in a combat situation

>>31333187
Yet could take anyone in nato.

Lol you know who your daddy is, stop playing.

Are you fussy? Do you need a nap?

>>31338917
As a joke?

>>31333055
>Hurr blindly follow orders
>Even this order to forcibly disarm American citizens?
>Well it is an order...

Retard.

>>31332925
Well, look at the Iraqi army. They had patrols with the US Army training them. US were weighed down with army, ammo, and water. Iraqis had a rifle with no extra ammo and no water. Thirsty? They stopped at a house along the way and sipped tea. Firefight? They held down the trigger, expending all their ammo in seconds, and then ran away.

After the US left, the Iraqis were no shows. They would take a job as a taxi driver, while drawing half their army pay, with the rest of their army pay going to their higher ups. Incompetent and corrupt.

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>>31333187
"I was only following orders."

>>31338111
a secular dictatorship is better than a theocracy

>>31336712
Please point to me the last time after WW2 where we had to cap one of our soldiers for treason.

>>31332677
>Sofrep

Fuck off with your shilling somewhere else Brandon.

>>31337636
>evil empire is finally crumbling
People have said we would collapse since our countries inception. Given that we've survived much worse periods of societal and economic unrest, I find it highly unlikely that we'll collapse now.

>>31335264
>that truth....

>>31339546
I wonder what potential societal unrest awaits in the future as the US gets more diverse.

>>31333170
MUH KURDS meme

kill yourself faglord, kurds are communist pieces of shit.

>>31333891
That's because the bookies are using polling designed to get a campaign to spend money.

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>>31339667

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>>31336487
>xenophobic isn't bad.
>racist isn't really bad

What the fuck? This is why people say trump supporters are racist.

>>31340380
Oh, for a minute there, I thought I was still on /co/, and you weren't just baiting me.

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>>31340390
>haha, he must be trolling me!
>that means i don't have to defend my self!

Holy shit, you trump supporters are fucking retarded. I hope when hillary wins you bigots all fucking drink bleach at once.

>>31340444
>the Krino shitposter
Oh look, it's this faggot again.

Go shill on /pol/ or whatever you do.

>>31340444
It's a shame the most fuckable girl in that show is such a stuck up bitch.

>>31340550
>most fuckable girl in the show

He didn't post Ayase

>>31340575
>Not Saori

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>>31340530
>Krino shitposter

I have no idea what that is, i was just pointing put how racist trump supporters are. I don't even lurk /pol/

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>>31333216
>>31333230
>>31333243
>>31334671
>>31334961
>>31335305
>>31336618
>>31336690
>>31339008
>>31339354

>asshurt americucks who can't admit and\or too blind to see the truth that their troops are undisciplined, weak children

This is wonderful. I never actually believed Americans are this blind\stupid to see the truth. Looks like their media and propaganda have actually covered their eyes with cotton balls.

Jesus fuck, you lot need to sort yourself out and stop pussyfooting around with your military. You spend more money on your military than the next 4 countries combined, yet you still can't accomplish that quality of soldier nearly most NATO countries have.

Give it 5 more years, or even less. American troops will begin to outright refuse to do orders, and their officers won't give a shit. Mark my words, there will be media hell for the US military when that time soon comes. It's inevitable, with what the US are doing with their military right now.
>frontline female soldiers
>lowering standards for special forces to let more people in
>heavily dependant on assets to win rather than outright ground combat
>can't win a war without help from other nations
>holywood proceeds to glorify war with false films to recruit the younger generation
>standards will continue to lower to accompany the poor select of civilian troops

Screencap this. If 4chinz and /k/ is still around in 2020, this will be a real problem for the US military.

>>31340752

>some people on the internet that are racist also support trump
>this must mean that the millions and millions of trump supporters I've never spoken too, or know anything about, must all be racist too

You're an idiot. Generalized statements are the mark of stupid people. Get over yourself kid, your limited experience of the world does not apply to every other human on earth.

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>>31340894
Oh please, don't you act all high and mighty. Go on /pol/. Go to r/thedonald. Its fucking filled with racists and xenophobics. I have met trump supporters that think black people are inherently more violent. Theres a reason people make fun of trump supporters. You are the lowest of the low.

>>31340812

Former US Army 11b here. You're a weak ass civilian suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect. You ave no idea what you're talking about, have zero experience, and are literally incapable of understanding just how incompetent you are.

You "analysis" on the US military is idiotic at best, and you seem to GREATLY overestimate the capabilities of other countries. Having never served, or served with soldiers from other NATO countries, you're opinion is less than worthless.

Out of all the foreign military services that I've had the opportunity to work with, I will say that the Royal Marines were some squared away guys,well trained and very professional. I'd put them up with my boys any day of the week. I had a rare opportunity to work with JDF and they're some really motivated guys, but their training and equipment is seriously lacking. Canadian, German, and French forces that I've come in to contact with have all been disorganized, under trained, and full of stupid ideas. Kinda like you.

>>31340957

Repeating yourself doesn't make you right. You're a foolish child if you think labeling EVERY SINGLE TRUMP SUPPORTER EVER as racist is any different from labeling ALL BLACK PEOPLE EVER as more violent.

Also, I'm not a trump supporter. I don't support the idea of having a cocksucker businessman as the president of my country. Corporations have entirely too much power as is, and now people want to put one of the biggest big business guys around in office? It's insanity.

I don't support hillary either, for a variety of reasons. I wont be voting in this election because there aren't any candidates on the ballad worth fucking voting for. they're all garbage.

I'll vote when Ron Paul, or someone like him, comes around and starts talking sense. Until then my ass is staying home on election day. Again.

>>31340812
I hope Europoors armies have improved. When I was in Germany used 20 year old trucks that were repaired by civilian mechanics who worked M-F, 9-5.

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>>31332925
Not even American but this makes me proud of you guys.

>>31340957
> Go to an anonymous place on the internet known for racists to gather
> Now tell me not everyone is racist

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>>31340998
Oh ok, you win. Not ALL trump supporters are racist. It's just that for some odd reason, all the bigots, racists, xenophobes, and transphobes seem to be voting for trump. Hmmm, i wonder why? Maybe it's because trump breeds hatred and bigotry. So yea, not all trump supporters are racists, they're just voting for a racist. That better?

>>31341121

I don't disagree that he's a fuckin retard. Yes.. better. They are indeed voting for a guy who's campaign is based on bigotry and he does indeed spread a lot of bad ideas.

but he's got some damn good ideas too. so does hillary. so do all of them. but the bad ideas outweigh the good IMO.

>>31341121
I'm a bigot, I hate Muslims, Trannies are mentally ill, and women should have their right to vote stripped from them.

You act like I'm supposed to give a shit about you calling me any of that.

>>31341121
I'm still wondering if you're trolling or if you're legitimate. I still side with the former because I find it highly unlikely that a Hillary supporter would just happen to stumble on to the weapons board of 4chan.

>>31341121

and don't think I didn't notice your little backhanded jab.

"not ALL blacks are violent. it's just that for some odd reason, all the gangbangers, drug dealers, and most rapists are black."

you don't get to apply logic to one thing, and not the other. stand up straight, take off the fedora and stop posting anime pictures.

>>31341121
Yeah. And Jihadis, criminals, mass shooters, and SJWs vote dem. So what? The worst exists on both sides.

And let's not forget Hillary's lovely appreciation for ex-KKK senators and Margaret Sanger, who literally wanted to remove the black race through eugenics.

>>31333170
>The Kurds are literally the only trustworthy group in the Middle East.


FUCKING LOL, THEY ARE EVEN FIGHTING EACH OTHER HA HA

Oh man, this thread is a fucking cancer.

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>>31341147
Ok and thats why america doesn't take you seriously. Thank god people like you are being shamed out of society.

>>31341172
>HURR HURR, A HILLARY SUPPORTER CAN'T EXIST.
Maybe im just abe to think logically and see trump is a dumbass? Be more open minded cuck

>>31341177
But thats wrong, their are many white versions of all of those. Try again cuck.

>>31341191
None of those except SJWs overwhelmingly vote for dems. And maybe, just maybe, there is nothing wrong with wanting social justice for minorities?

Man you guys are dumb.

>>31340812
I dont know what country you're from, but your military is probably full of faggots

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>>31332677

>>31341121
intersectionality is commie bullshit m8

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>>31339918
>tfw state is still in the US of A

>>31333168
>You do what you're told
Not if it's treason

>>31332677
Well the putinbots and other vlad triad gang will be ecstatic that they were right all along

>>31341345
>HURR HURR, A HILLARY SUPPORTER CAN'T EXIST.

He's probably just surprised someone with access to the internet can support someone that actively protected an African warlord that killed thousands of people, stole money from a disaster fund and was so moronic they used their private email server for sensitive information, that when revealed resulted in the deaths of several people.

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>>31340812
>yet you still can't accomplish that quality of soldier nearly most NATO countries have.

Are you including conscripts? If you are not then only compare US Marines and Rangers to other NATO soldiers. Faggot.

>>31335598
>>31339918
>russo american alliance
>Ohio

feels good meng

lemme get dem AKs son

>>31341899
Meanwhile the flip-flopping bigot who's a scandal on two legs and is in love with the Russian president is someone we can trust to have our best interests at heart.

If people imagined half the level of bullshit about Trump that they did about Hillary the man would have been assassinated already.

>>31341146
>so does hillary.

>continue doing what Obama was doing but with a vagina and worse

>good ideas

>>31341936
This man is right, Drumpf is a bigot.

All of us here at /k/ need to put our differences aside, and vote Hillary.

Even if you don't like her, she's far more qualified than Drumpf, and is NOT a racist bigot.

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>>31341899
You can't just list shit off and not have any evidence to back any of that up. All of that is just conspiracy theories made up by the right to slander her. Give evidence or drink bleach.

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>>31341968
Thank you, finally someone with a brain here.

>>31335067
>wearing the same shoes and shorts

looks like different shoes to me. the colors are different. and you can't really tell if those are the same shorts, you just assuming that because it's a similar color. we need high resolution pictures to clarify.

>>31341121
>Buzzwords ...the post
Thanks for correcting the record..

>>31341345
> there is nothing wrong with wanting social justice for minorities

Cool white people should have lots of free stuff then am I right ?

Because on a worldwide level, we are the minority.

Get fucked nigger, by hating on decent white people you're sawing the branch you sit on.

Your fall will be pretty funny to watch when no white people will be around to protect you from the chinaman and the kike.

Have fun being back into slavery.

>>31341345
Oh also it's fun how you're hating on white people while wanking on japanese anime which is full of fantasized little white girls doing cute things.

You're brain-damaged. Have fun being a sub-human.

>>31341121
>all the transphobes
Trump supports trans rights to piss in the bathroom of their true gender.
Hes not transphobic at all.

>>31341994
Give evidence trump is racist. Direct evidence.

>>31340998
>I don't support hillary either, for a variety of reasons. I wont be voting in this election because there aren't any candidates on the ballad worth fucking voting for. they're all garbage.

abstaining is basically giving your vote to Hillary, you know how this works.

this whole thread is cancer