What if the U.S had not intervened in WW1?

>>31329380
Militarily, the US only hastened the defeat of Germany. Even with Russia out of the war, Germany had suffered too much attrition to be able to score a decisive victory.

If we're talking about America's economical contribution through trade to the Entente, then that's a completely different story.

>>31329505
I would argue that France was right at the tipping point, after the shitshow that was the 2nd battle of the Aisne, with whole divisions fucking throwing down their rifles. The vast number of troops in the British empire was a serious factor, though, and I don't know if they could have gotten enough troops from pooinlooistan or wherever else in time to stop the Germans before having to sue for peace.

>>31329380
>Germany capitulates three months later than they did
That's all folks

The war continues for a year or two years longer. Spanish flu still still breaks out in Germany an kills millions. Germany gets better terms in the TOV and WW2 never happens.

>>31329547
>with whole divisions fucking throwing down their rifles.
Mutiny covered far more things than just rebellion.
When a unit was in mutiny, 90% of the time they kept manning their trench but refused to carry out an attack after the clusterfuck that happened.

>>31329558
Wouldn't they get the same or more brutal terms? Without the Americans weighing in on it, they would have gone with what France wanted i.e. buttfucking the Germans

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Germany frees up it's troops
>sends them West
>they enter the same stalemate that resulted from the failure of the Schliefen plan
>war grinds to a halt a year later with a starving, depopulated Germany, an absolutely rekt France, a broke UK, and a commie Russia
>Italy continues to do Italian things, rises as the great superpower of the 30's and dominates Europe as a strong spaghetti bulwark against the USSR from 1942-1971 when a socialist-Catholic coup ordered by the Pope triggers WWII, the destruction of the Ottoman empire and the establishment of new Byzantium utilizing the new fusion powered Casaba howitzers

>>31329558
>Germany gets better terms
Lolno. Without the US to make the writing on the wall clearer, they fight for longer until they get invaded themselves and collapse.
Without the US to protect them, they get neutralised with the Trianon treatment and go back to independent states.

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>>31329658
>strong spaghetti bulwark

>>31329685
Lloyd George believed in lenient terms for Germany. And in the longer term so did Britain. Hence why Britain allowed Germany to break the TOV, e.g. no resistance to German improvements to the kriegsmarine or the re-militarization of the Rhineland.

And as I said, Spanish flu still breaks out and starvation is still rampant. Millions more die, it'd be impossible to continue the war.

>>31329658
>Because the US entered the war I will never spend all day at the docks handling massive spaghetti imports from the Great Italian Empire

>>31329658
top kek my man

>>31329726
>The british were too scared to put Germany back in it's place when they started remilitarizing, and had to fight again when they started annexing territory

This never would have happened if the TOV had been light on the punishment, and Germany wasn't too swamped by reparations to breath

>>31330009
I wouldn't be so sure about that, the German economy actually started going back up during the 20's even with the reparations (look up the Weimar Republic). The main reason Hitler was finally able to come into power was because the Great Depression killed the German economy and increased unrest.

>>31329548
This. Germany was starving, they couldn't touch the naval blockade, and the troops from the east weren't enough to finish off the French. Maybe the french would have been less retarded with the tov, maybe more.

Maybe the italians would have had a chance to finish completely depopulating themselves, wouldn't that have been fun?

>>31330009
>swamped by reparations
When will this meme die. It was tied to their capacity to pay back and spread out over about a century, technically.
They made France pay pretty much ALL of their gold reserves at once in 1871, so much that it caused a crash in their economy due to a massive influx of gold. And nobody batted an eye.
Quit the fucking revisionism. TOV wasnt half as harsh as it was made out to be.

Nothing, Germans won the war but got cucked in treaties since they were misrepresented

>>31330911
>won

I don't think you know what this word means.

>>31330911
t. Ludendorff

>>31329380
Ah the age old
> "we saved your arse twice and you would be speaking German now."

The war was going to be won by the allies regardless. the ottoman empire was crumbling, as was the austro hungarian empire. It would have only been a matter of time before Germany would have been the only one left.

And as for WW2 the same is also true. Without the US in the war you can also count on japan not partaking because of oil export mismanagement.

In the GDP and manpower of both the soviet union, British empire ad other free forces was dwarfing what the axis had.

Production was outstripping the axis.

Even when you have a look at the weapons (apart from the V weapons) they are an even match on all sides.

It was only a matter of time, but i can see it going on until 1947 at least and possibly dragging out to the late 1950s.

> INb4 nazi invasion of the UK.

yeah well it was cancelled anyway. And impossible to do, they couldn't crack the RAF.
The army had regrouped and rearmed.
The kreigsmarne didn't have shit to invade with.
And IF, IF they would have invaded, the british would have used chemical and biological weapons in areas invaded, possibly AGAINST THEIR OWN PEOPLE.
the germans would have had to destroy every village because of home guard putting up at least some form of resistance.

I have never seen a wargame scenario where germany can ever possibly win.

You Bongs can still thank us though...

>>31331675
Thank you for selling us planes we had to re-engine, tanks we had to re-gun, destroyers we had to rebuild basically from the keep up, and making us pay through the nose for it.

>>31331675
Butthurt bong detected. We didn't join the wars as they were about to end, we joined and ended them ourselves.

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>>31331743
>The "We saved your ass twice and you would be speaking German now" meme is a myth. Here is a simple, concise post, backed up by evidence, explaining why the U.S. was basically irrelevant during both world wars.
>NUH UH, WE JOINED AND ENDED THEM OURSELVES! YOU WOULD BE SPEAKING GERMAN IF IT WASN'T FOR US!
America, this is why we love you.

>>31331675
this is for you, friend.

http://www.philmasters.org.uk/SF/Sealion.htm

>>31329547
Dont forget that the Austrians collapsed in Italy, freeing up several Italian divisions for France, Portugal had just entered the war and Germany still had many divisions in the east.

The war probably would not have ended in 1918, but Germany was pretty fucked all the same. the British were even developing the Fuller plan for an armoured assault into Germany for 1919.

>>31331811
>implying that without the US intervening in WW1, the outcome wouldn't have been a lot less certain
>implying that being "liberated" than the Russians isn't its own form of hell
>implying the US didn't prevent most of Western Europe from being "liberated" by Russians

>>31330953
They won objective wise

>>31329505
Germany would have won if they had only one front to fight. Russia would have never became the industrial power it would have became. Then Germany would invade America.

>>31330084
>Italy suffers 95% casualties
>Germany manages to sue for better peace
>does way better in WW2 at start due to treating Italy to lebensraum before even looking at Poland

>>31331731

Britain has the a oil stockpile so large they're burning it and using it as anti invasion weapons.

I know lets give them Even more oil that they don't need, that was bound for japan bringing japan into the war!

>>31329380

The Entente barely held against the spring offensive WITH the US.
Without, it would likely break completely and sue for peace

>>31337108
That's just... inaccurate? The spring offensives failed not only because of the defensive efforts, but because they figuratively ran out of steam. The Germans were overextended, were losing men at an unsustainable rate -- the best of the best, mind you, as they formed the vanguards of the offensives with their most experienced troops--, were not achieving any strategic objectives and gaining mostly worthless and lightly defended ground, were outrunning their supplies and so on and so forth. Furthermore, American involvement on the ground during the Spring Offensives was rather minimal. It was only in the counterattacks -- in the execution but even more importantly in the possibility of mounting it quickly due to fresh manpower -- when their power was truly felt.

Maybe the Germans would have advanced a couple more miles, but then so what? Remember this is no longer the French army plagued by mutiny, this is one with a new leadership and much improved morale. Much more importantly, the Germans would still be facing a more potent industry and economy with greater manpower reserves, while they themselves are starving both literally and figuratively - not only did they not have food (and had no way of breaking through the blockade), they did not have men (they needed about 150 hundred thousand men *a month* to replace losses -- while getting 25 thousand), they did not have resources (fun fact: they were melting benches and lampposts). Short of alien space bat magic, there is no way for a German victory in 1918.

>>31337108
American contribution was very little, the battle of belleau forest is only a cultural icon because it was american troops baptism of fire.

if anyone else had fought there it would have been a footnote.

>>31337108
It's amazing that we live in a time in this world where information from 100 years ago can be obtained with the tap of a few buttons

and people, such as yourself, spread absolute shit, claiming what they say is fact

>>31339801
Im not him, but the US troops came in fairly large numbers and while nowhere near the "quality" some of the other troops, they could guard less important sections which freed up transfering british or french troops to other parts of the front for offensives.

Otherwise though his view is, as you point out, incorrect. Germany wouldve lost the war, though I think that they wouldve kept going until 1919/1920.

>>31329640
>Without the Americans weighing in on it
You mean without Wilson lubing Germany up every time anyone mentioned not joining his super-kewl League of Nations?

>>31329380
Germany wasn't up to doing anything worthwhile in Spirng offensives.

You can even see that their major strike went into French, instead of going north to cut out Calais/Dunkirk along with parts of BEF and Belgian Army.

>>31330009
>Germany wasn't too swamped by reparations to breath
They wouldn't be swamped by them if they didn't sabotage their own economy. Well it was done on purpose, since they've wrecked their economy - they've had a proof that they can't pay.

Horrible people, horrible minds. No wonder Freemasonbros backed Hitler.

>>31331675
>as was the austro hungarian empire
This was quite important because the treaties allies got allowed them to use entire Austrian infrastructure to move troops. Which opened potentially gigantic front for Germans.

>>31329380

In 1918 a quarter of a million German troops deserted while transferring from the Eastern Front alone, before Operation Michael even started. They just jumped off the trains.

>>31329380
Nothing changes. The US was millitarily insignificant in ww1

>>31336463
>Germany would invade America
Why are you so dumb? Do you honestly think the English would roll over? Do you think the Germans could occupy the entire expanse of Europe AND handle a crossing of the Atlantic to a country fresh faced and fully stocked?

The war would likely have petered out with no clear winner, without a decisive victory neither side could hamstring the other with overly-brutal terms which would lead to seething resentment and eventually another war.

So, no Hitler, no WW2(As we know it.) and the world might have just been a better place. Then again that also could have lead to the development of the atomic bomb in Europe and who knows how that could mix things up. Especially since there'd still be all those commies skulking about.