Why is the bullpup meme still around after all these years?

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The most accurate rifle currently in service is bullpup...

>>31211427
ahaha

It has its place. The notion that every country will have the same criteria for their service rifle is the greatest meme of all desu. The Jews benefit from a bullpup, much like the Swiss benefit from a rifle set up like a marksmans rifle, much like small Anglo countries like new Zealand benefit from using the same weapon as the Americans. One size does not fit all.

>>31211427
Why are brits so delusional?

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>>31211427
Are you sure? What bullpup sniper rifles are there? Save for that one Barrett, I mean.

>>31211622
>barrett
>sniper rifle

BWHAH

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>>31211635
Yes, what's so funny about that?

>>31211640
It's really an anti-materiel rifle. A .338 Lapua does everything it does against infantry more comfortably, more consistently, cheaper and with a far lighter rifle to boot. The real appeal of a Barett .fiddy is filling the round with boom-boom to stop VBIEDs, trigger roadside bombs and eliminate armour plated vehicles. at 400-600 meters.

>>31211693
It's still a sniper rifle.

>>31211695
Only in CoD.

>>31211712
I had no idea we lived in CoD.

>>31211622
Sniper rifles: QBU-88, SVU, Desert Tactical ASRS, DSR-Precsision, WA-2000
Then, there are plenty more bullpup anti-material rifles.

>>31211695
It's not accurate enough to be a sniper rifle. That's why it's called an anti-material rifle.

>>31211779
No. That's completely incorrect.

>>31211790
Please, for the love of God, shut up.
The Barret is not a sniper rifle, sticking a scope on something doesn't make it a sniper rifle son.
Watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEDFn3UtVIc, then shut up.

>>31211803
>the Barrett
Are you implying they only manifacture a single gun?
>A sniper rifle is a man-portable, high precision, shoulder-fired rifle, for military or law enforcement use, designed to ensure more accurate shooting at longer ranges than other small arms.
The M82A1 has a maximum effective range of 1800 metres, the Sako TRG42 in .338 Lapua Magnum has a range of 1500 metres. The M82A1 is a sniper rifle. Prove me wrong.

>>31211803
>he XM107 was originally intended to be a bolt-action sniper rifle, and the rifle Barrett M95 was originally selected by the U.S. Army in a competition between such weapons. However, under the trials the decision was made that the U.S. Army did not, in fact, require such a weapon.

>Then the Army decide on the Barrett M82, a semi-automatic rifle. In summer 2002, the M82 finally emerged from its Army trial phase and was approved for "full materiel release", meaning it was officially adopted as the Long Range Sniper Rifle, Caliber .50, M107. The M107 uses a Leupold 4.5–14×50 Mark 4 scope.

>The Barrett M107 is a .50 caliber, shoulder fired, semi-automatic sniper rifle. Like its predecessors the rifle is said to have manageable recoil for a weapon of its size owing to the barrel assembly that itself absorbs force, moving inward toward the receiver against large springs with every shot. Additionally the weapon's weight and large muzzle brake also assist in recoil reduction. Various changes were made to the original M82A1 to create the M107, with new features such as a lengthened accessory rail, rear grip, and monopod socket. Barrett has recently been tasked with developing a lightweight version of the M107 under the "Anti-Materiel Sniper Rifle Congressional Program", and has already come up with a scheme to build important component parts such as the receiver frame and muzzle brake out of lighter weight materials.

>>31211457

This.
Also why do people that obviously never held or shot a bullpup feel the need to constantily whine about it?

>>31211420
>meme
most countries are gradually switching over

it's probably the biggest switch since the trend to 5.56, and smaller caliber rifles

I can't say there is any real benefit to a traditional configuration other than people are more likely to be immediately comfortable with them

reduction in overall barrel length isn't such an advantage now as it will be when combat theaters move to highly urban or densely vegetated regions

the change over in naval and vehicular units will be almost immediate, troops traditionally armed with carbines or short barreled ARs will all get bulpups

>>31211420
having full barrel in a SMG sized gun seems attractive

>>31211779
its anti-material because its huge and effective against armor, vehicles, and buildings. its a sniper rifle because it doesnr even matter if you miss because it will still blow your arm CLEAN OFF

so muh buthurt ITT

the Barret M82 has about a 1.5-3 MOA, depending on who you ask and what ammo you are using

so it's not accurate enough to be called a sniper rifle

the only reason this is confused, is because the .50 can out-range other rounds; which means in some situations at very long range indeed someone with a .50 might take on someone with a more accurate rifle (like a M24).
my understanding though is that the shooter with the .50 in this situation is very very lucky indeed to hit anything, and is only really firing to scare the enemy or to try to drive them off a mountainside

it's main use practically is destroying vehicles and IEDs
for this purpose a range of excellent armor piercing, incendiary and combination rounds exists
say goodby to your parked aircraft, light vehicles, electrical arrays, light amphibious landing crafts and VBIEDs

>>31212105
>most countries are gradually switching over
Name one (1).

>>31212290
UK
France
Austria
Australia
New Zealand
Ireland
PRC
Israel
Singapore

>>31212115
Incorrect check the demmo ranch video shoots straight through a house of cards. if a round like that had a massive shockwave around it itd fuck up the trajectory mid flight

>>31212115
>if you miss because it will still blow your arm CLEAN OFF

>>31212312
France is switching away from a bullpup to the HK416.

>>31212312
>France
>New Zealand
Both recently adopted ARs, 416 for France and LMT M4 for NZ
>UK
Anyone who actually does anything is now using the C8

>>31212290
to some extent it's hard to say who is "switching", however it's very easy to see the number of current operators and that there is a clear trend towards adoption

I think adoption is primarily driven by economics, and by who is manufacturing
everyone uses AK's because the russian supply chain is so open
similarly the jews will sell guns to anyone, which is why we are seeing non-traditional guns coming from isreal

when the current bulpup operators change models, there will be a secondary maket for their arms; which means a LOT of developing nations will start to buy them

the chinese are introducing them, as they phase out AK pattern and SKS's
I don't know if the chinese will sell these, or just keep all of them in storage

however the chinese army's adoption of bulpups carries more weight than most of the other countries combined

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>>31212339

>>31212339
fair point, however I'm not sure the decision to switch is due to the bulpup element

Australia has persisted with the steyr aug for instance, but they do more work on it than steyr does
NZ doesn't have the budget for development, and maybe there are issues buying them from australia

maybe I am accused of saying no true scorsman, but traditional configuration rifles are generations ahead of bulpups

as more countries develop bulpup rifles that gap will narrow, and we will see better bulpups on the market

>>31212339
>Anyone who actually does anything is now using the C8
Wrong. There's only one unit using the C8and that's 4 Commando. The eason why is because the SA80 cannot cycle lower pressure rounds and their is fear of overpenetration when protecting a nuclear submarine base and convoys. Meanwhile, other Special Forces use the L119 and a few support units, but overall, the SA80 is still standard issue until its replacement date comes

>>31212414
*43 Commando

>>31212391
>maybe there are issues buying them from Australia
No issues, the two countries have a close defense relationship. They tested the new thales rifles and didn't want them
>as more countries develop bulpup rifles that gap will narrow, and we will see better bullpups on the market
You're dreaming, the time of the bullpup is over. Some countries will stick with it in the same way that some countries stuck with the rifle grenade, but it had its chance to impress (nearly 50 years) and on the whole wasn't impressive. This is compounded by the fact that the original selling point of the bullpup (rifle ballistics in a carbine sized package), has been replicated in conventional layout weapons with the recent fruition of SBRs. Short ARs no longer keyhole or have the cycling issues they did in the 70s, so outside of certain nations with niche requirements (IE Israel), there's no reason to use a bullpup over a conventional gun.

>>31212444
SBRs don't give you 100% the performance of a full sized rifle. Full sized rifles have measurably better terminal performance at range. It's just that the lightness and shortness of an SBR outweighs this for most grunts.

And bullpups tend to be heavy and awkward to maneuver, which is the real reason they're dying as a general issue weapon.

>>31211693
>anti martial rifle
>in 2016
Wow, an actual underage person.

>>31212444
these are compelling arguments, you may have swayed me

but why are some countries hanging onto them?
is it just because some countries want to hold onto domestic manufacturing because they want to guarantee supply?

the FAMAS and SA8 are both much derided, neither seems to me like a stand out weapon
however the steyr aug and the QBZ-95 seem to have merit

I think the australians like the steyr because it handles better in vehicles while retaining accuracy unlike a SBR which are really only for door kickers

not sure Iknow much about Chinese military doctrine

>>31212344
chinese army's adoption of bulpups carries more weight
I'm not sure how well that adoption has turned out given the development and adoption of the conventional QBZ-03, which seems to be equipping various parts of the PLA.

>>31212505
I think you're selling SBRs short by saying they're only good for "door kickers." They're not going to have the best lethality past 150 meters but bullets downrange are bullets downrange. Lots of bullets downrange will take care of things even if they're not the most accurate of lethal. No one is going to shrug them off.

Accuracy issues can be alleviated by having a designated marksman with a full length weapon on every team that needs one.

>>31212312
You forgot to add Ukraine their bud. They already have Licensed Tavors in 5.45x39 and are finishing testing trials for their 7.62x39 kalashnikov sealed bullpup.

>>31212505

Could be because the AUG is a solid rife. I've heard some whining from Australian grunts that they had problems with rust, something I've never seen on my A1 - but maybe the aussie produced AUGs had lower quality?

>>31212519
>QBZ-03
IIRC, the QBZ-03 was to be issued alongside the QBZ-95

>>31212519
honestly I'd be talking out my ass if I commented on why china did/didn't use bulpups

however undoubtedly it's important

I suspect they are making traditional rifles mainly for export or arming foreign troops

>>31212569
>rust
for real?
maybe it's just isolated pockets of retardation, were they marine units?
salt water will do all kinds to a gun

that being said though, I've not heard any complaints about the AUG from native bulpup users

>>31212569
>aussie produced AUGs had lower quality?
That seems to be the commonly held view. Anecdotally, Ive been told that the first batch of Austeyrs were delivered without the ejection ports cut out and they had to get the original Austrian design team out to teach to the Lithgow people how to follow the blueprints, but Ive never seen a source for that so IDK.

>>31212575
I think that is the case.

But that would tend to suggest that there is something not entirely satisfactory about the QBZ-95, whether it's cost, something technical, or some other factor isn't clear.

>>31212608
I believe it was that there were troops having difficulty handling their QBZ-95s, thus they made the 03 as a side issue for thise that can't into bullpups

>>31212598

No experience with salt water, but it was permanently raining during basic and we've spent a lot of time in mud and dirt. The only part I've ever seen with the potential to rust was the threading inside the flash hider.

>>31212608
Some older troops are really really really used to the older rifles.

>>31212630
either it was a faulty rifle, or it was cleaned with something that took the coating off it

>>31212312
You forgot Slovenia and their kawaii F2000s.

>>31212608
No, it just means that even in China there are fudds just like the ones on /k/ who really cannot into bullpuppies.

>>31212599

LOL - never heard that one but there were several newspaper articles blaming the issues with the aussie AUGs on the poor Lithgow QC.
Nevertheless, would love to get my hands on one of their latest upgraded versions, just for comparison.

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>>31211779
???

>>31211420
Why is the meme meme still a meme after meme meme?

MEME!

Bullpuppers are inhereting the earth. The next gen of ARs are going to be Tavors.

>>31212903
Source on it being .50 bmg at that distance? Also it looks like it may have ricocheted and then hit him. It's hard to imagine him stumbling around like that and having no visible trauma if he got hit by .50 bmg.

>>31213020

the fad will faze soon enough, just like everything else. just look at HK USP's - 5 years ago you couldn't give one away now it's the hipster gun of choice.

>>31212903
What does that change about .50 Barrets being 1.5-2 MOA rifles?

And you could do that with a Barret too, just not reliably. Fuck, there's 1k+ confirmed kills with 5.56. Good luck calling anything chambered in that a sniper rifle.

>>31212267
It's still a sniper, though.

>>31213471
I don't know about that, but socom pistols are cool because they were made to be assault weapons. The navy seals designed them.

>>31211821
>High precision
Are you retarded or what?

>>31212105
>France just switched to the 416
>All Scandos use conventional layout guns
>Italians just bought a conventional gun.

Other than the UK and Austria no European country uses bullpups.

>>31212414
SAS use C8 too.

>>31211420

saying "bullpup meme" is a meme
you faggot

>>31213697
We get it, you have a poor vocabulary.

>>31211420
Because you keep reposting it.

>>31213757
France isn't switching to shit. You are reliant on meme news that uses meme sources.

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Holy fuck this thread.

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>>31211693
>>31211712
>>31211779
>>31211803

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_M82
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_XM500

>effective range
>nearly 2 km
>not a sniper rifle

>>31215701
As an anti-material rifle, yes.

>>31215732
From wiki:
>The Barrett M82, standardized by the US Military as the M107, is a recoil-operated, semi-automatic sniper rifle
>semi-automatic sniper rifle
>sniper rifle

Also from wiki:
>Longest recorded sniper kills
>2,300 m
>Barrett M82A1

Sorry, it seems you're retarded.

>>31215787
>it's on wikipedia therefore it must be true

>>31215701
I seem to recall that Barrett is maybe 1.5 MOA, that's shit-tier accuracy for a sniper rifle, especially at ranges like that

>>31213781
I know, that's why I put special forces in their

>>31217009
did some googling, opinions seem to be "brand-new Barrett 1.5 MOA on a good day, older ones 2.0-2.5", one account says 1.5 MOA at 1000m and sub-MOA at 600m, if the accuracy drops like that from 600m to 1000m, at 2000m it's going to be best-suited for taking out vehicles

the ONLY reason Australia uses the Steyr AUG is for shitposting
>Austria/Australia
bantz, prove me wrong

>>31215701

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2_Browning

>effective range
>nearly 2 km
>not a sniper rifle

>>31217866
>Not a sniper rifle
it can be converted into one.
>In 1967, Hathcock set the record for the longest sniper kill. He used an M2 .50 Cal Browning machine gun mounting a telescopic sight at a range of 2,500 yd (2,286 m), killing a Vietcong guerrilla. Hathcock was one of several individuals to utilize the M2 Browning machine gun in the sniping role. This success led to the adoption of the .50 BMG cartridge as a viable sniper round. Sniper rifles have since been designed around and chambered in this caliber since the 1970s.

>Henderson, Charles W. (2003). Silent Warrior (2003 ed.). Berkley Books. ISBN 978-0-425-18864-4.

>>31217009
>you are now aware that the standard of accuracy for the M24 is 2 MOA.

>>31217866
my ZU-23-2 has range of 2 miles, if that isn't a sniper rifle I don't know what is

>>31213519
>1k confirmed kills with 5.56
Nigga what?

>>31217988
http://everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL-SPECS-MIL-R/MIL-R-71126_7029/
>grouping >2.8 inches at 300 yards (1.146 MOA) = barrel is worn out

http://www.snipercentral.com/u-s-army-m24-sws/
>"The actual rifle requirements for accuracy were .35 MOA from a machine rest"

>>31218074
*3.8 inches

>>31216442
Then find me a source source that refutes the fact that it is a sniper rifle you fucking nigger.

>>31218185
Ian-sempai says Barrett isn't a sniper rifle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEDFn3UtVIc

>>31215701
I think you may not understand what "effective range" actually means

it means "how effective is the round when it hits"
not "what range is the weapon designed for"

because the .50 is a huge round, it's effective at much longer distances, however the accuracy of the barett M82 means it is generally unsuited to precision shooting at these ranges compared to a 5.56 marksmans rifle

>>31215787
I may have neither the time nor the crayons here

a "sniper rifle" is not determined by it's range, its determined by it's accuracy

the M20 recoilless rifle outranges the barret by 5 MILES, you could attack someone with a barret M82 with this at a distance of 3-5 miles

in the same way you could attack a sniper with a barret at 1-2 miles

but the M20 recoiless rifle is not a sniper rifle

>>31218074
>.35 MOA to 10k rounds
Bullshit. Outright.

What is the best optic to get for a FS2000?

>>31222512
this isn't fucking QTDDTOT

>>31211821
A long range and a scope on top doesn't yet make a sniper rifle.

>>31211821
Nice fuken bait

>>31218011
Just because it's unlikely doesn't mean 5.56 can't kill at 1km. Fuck, it's been done with Mk18s no less. Hadji's aren't known for taking good cover.

>>31218074
>.35 MOA
haha hoho

>>31224333
more plausible than the claim that 2.0 MOA would be acceptable for a sniper rifle

Retard here. What exactly stops bullpups from being ambidextrous?

>>31224401
most designers lack the imagination required to make them eject in a fashion that doesn't throw hot brass in the user's face if shot from the 'wrong' side?