x95 Tavor Accuracy Issues

>>31206928
In combat you are rarely using automatic in anything except very very short bursts

The amount of missinfo on this gun is pretty hilarious.

There's no poi shift.

The guns are getting 2-3moa pretty consistently. Some groups have horizontal stringing.

See the 3 or 4 videos MAC has just about the accuracy of the gun because there's so much missinfo.

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>>31206969

>>31206999
I'm just saying man. When MAC puts out that many videos then you know there's some accusations flying in the forums that probably don't hold up.

>>31206943
>>31206969

Did you guys watch the video?

After like 2 magazines (of slow fire at distant targets, mind you) there was significant vertical stringing.

There was no way the gun was hot at that point, barely warmed up probably.

>>31206969
>no poi shift
>horizontal stringing

nigger what

>>31207067
Isn't summer over yet?
>>31207044
Give me a time

>>31207106

31:00 I believe

>>31207442
They're shooting plates and all they mention is possible vertical stringing.

>basing judgement off of two hicks shooting at steel targets willy nilly
Y'all realize that people actually go out and shoot paper, recording the results, right?

>>31207026
>when MAC puts out that many videos

Makes you wonder why he's that invested into proving what an awesome rifle the Tavor is. Most people would be like, "here's a video showing how much I like the Tavor" and leave it at that.

But MAC...it's almost like he's paid to...shill for IWI

>>31207699
Ya fuck people putting factual video reviews out.

>>31207715
>factual
And I bet you believe every single commercials you see on tv.

>>31206928
What's the difference between the X95 and the Tavor?

>>31207742
X95 is an export designation for the MTAR.

>>31207736
Oh you're one of those idiots that thinks reviews based on the gun's performance is "shilling".

>>31207742
one is trash, the other is garbage

>>31207753
That's the actual name of the rifle. It's not an export thing.

>>31207758
What's a good bullpup rifle?

>>31208146
AUG is the only decent one

>>31208158
But it's so ugly

Mac videos on X95 accuracy:
>"There really aren't any accuracy issues with the x95, guise."
>Proceeds to shoot terrible groups with stringing issues all over the place
>"See, guise, totally normal accuracy."

KEKEKEKEKEKEKEK

>>31208199
>millennials think 2-3moa groups are bad

>>31207802
The MTAR and X95 are the exact same gun. Look it up.

>>31208211
Are they? I really don't know, if it isn't that bad then I think the x95 might still be the gun for me

>>31208218
"MTAR" isn't an official name.

>worried about poi shift using full auto
Wat

>>31208183
so is your mom but she works just fine AMIRITE.

>>31208224
Personally I'm getting one. If I want accuracy, I'll use my SCAR or AR.

The x95 is a really nice bullpup and it's extremely maneuverable. It would work well in close quarters combat.

>>31208247
I mean you are right, I know from experience
Source: am incest

>>31208254
try running one, it's not really as maneuverable as you might think. prone, offhand, around obstacles - really changed my opinion of the original tavor.

>>31208241
Source?

>>31208295
What do you mean source? Go to the Israel IWI site. Or look at the actual IDF guns. They don't say MTAR on them.

>>31208285
I mean it's true, I haven't used one yet, but:
>it's a really short rifle
>compact package
>the center of mass is pretty much at the back which facilitates rotations
I'd figure this translates to good maneuvability.

>>31208314
Well I guess they changed the name from 'MTAR' to 'X95' then.

>>31208332
i recommend trying one out before buying, wish i had before buying one and then selling for a loss.

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All these people arguing with made up thoughts over a gun they've never even held, let alone own, or shot guns in general even close to nearly enough to be held back by a gun's accuracy.

>>31206969
>There's no poi shift.
>Some groups have horizontal stringing.

"The point of impact doesn't move, it moves"

>>31206928
>IWI

What happened to IMI? Did they change their name or something?

>bullpup shills claim that bullpups are superior because of greater velocity and accuracy
>with loads designed for shorter barrels 5.56 does fine at 300 yards anything more and your in "need a bigger caliber" range
>3 moa
Bullshit

>>31208363
IWI was the small-arms division of IMI that was privatized by the Israeli government in 2005 and split-off from IMI.

IMI still makes defense products, they just don't make small-arms anymore.

>>31208363
They got rotated 180 degrees

>>31208363
yes
>>31208314
It was referred to as the MTAR for a very long time

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3 MOA rifle to go with the 3 MOA ammo. :^

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>>31208146
>>31208158

This, AUG is great.

But the only decent version (A3 with CQC rail) is fucking unobtaininum and will run you $2.5k+

Also I don't believe anybody makes triggers for them anymore and the factory triggers are beyond-Tavor-garbage with goddamn plastic sear surfaces

>>31208519
>>31208158

ignore the AUGfags

buy a Tavor

>>31208346
It's always been x95.
>>31208421
>refereed
Big difference to the actual name of the rifle which is X95.

>>31208358
>>31207067
Do you kids not know the difference between a grouping and point of aim/point of impact?

Stringing in a group isn't a poi shift.

>>31208747
>Stringing in a group isn't a poi shift.

nigger what

>aim at bullseye
>shoot series of 5 shot groups
>don't change POA
>POI strings vertically

what the fuck are you talking about

>>31208936
Stringing doesn't mean every shot moves the same direction every time, dumbass.

Stringing isn't a POI shift but stringing can point to a POI shift. A myriad of factors can cause stringing.

Bullets can land all over a horizontal line for example. The POI isn't changing. They don't have to shift. You see this when the rifle's trigger is shit.

The most common example is new pistol shooters shooting to the left.


Summer should be over by now.

>>31208211

What year were you born?

Just got one of these.
>be left-handed.
>shoot x95
>hot cases hit me in the chin
>after like 2 mags my chin is bleeding and stinging like a bitch
>400 bucks for left handed bolt and barrel
>just go back to shooting AR for the rest of range trip
I haven't taken it out past like 50 yards, because closest outdoor range is an hour away.

>>31209158
Copper custom will do a conversion for you fo free, but they keep the right handed parts.

>this whole thread
And thus I'm reminded /k/ is retarded.

>>31206928
My brother bought one of these piles. While shooting, you get a constant flow of gasses from the ejection port to breathe in while also being disoriented after each shot.

That MAC faggot(from youtube) better kill himself for shilling such a massive piece of shit.
>inb4 poorfag
I have a few fun worth more than 2k
>tfw my fucking idiot brother is voting for Hillary

>>31209236
>I have a few fun worth more than 2k
Sure you do champ.

>>31209158
Just shoot right handed

>>31206928
I tried one. It feels awkward to reload, and it was difficult to aim with sights. A red dot was fine, but it's not worth the money for something that isn't AR compatible, other than mags.

>>31209236
>tfw my fucking idiot brother is voting for Hillary
Why, in God's name?

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I've no issues besides gas from shooting 556. Made me smell burnt powder all day. Wasn't that bad.

>>31209096

When you jerk the trigger, or anything else that is on the operator-side of shooting, you are changing the POA. The mechanical aim of the firearm is altered whether intentionally or not.

It's not the firearm's fault when you jerk the trigger.

>>31209466
>I have no idea what poi shift is
Summer please leave.

>>31207044
>did you watch

it was 3 mags.

but point taken

So what's the conclusion? What should I buy for shtf?

>>31206928
I have a feeling the X95 was tested and pretty much engineered for the military issue 13 inch barrel, something that they needed to change to get it into the USA, so they extended the foreend and pushed the barrel out to make it NFA legal not thinking about the repercussions of doing it.

First you have a 16 inch pencil profile barrel working against you. Also a long stroke offset AK Style piston (mounted on a carrier of AR-18 lineage), which is known to introduce all kinds of interesting harmonics compared to inline DI.

I would be very interested in seeing super high speed photography (maybe even cutout versions so you can see the barrel, action and piston better) of both the X95 and tavor to see if my theory is correct. It would be nice to compare those to the Israeli military models too.

>>31209716
The X95 flattop models have 16" barrels. So do the ones for the grenade launcher but they have a different rail I think. It's not a US only thing.

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>>31208548
I can have transluent dark earth mags now with it to and a curved buttpad and adjustable trigger pull,while having a better more precise redot with a concussion reduction device that weighs 3 oz total not half a pound like competitors without hurting performance, while getting 2 inches more barrel with a reduction of 5 to 7 inches of OAL I get 2-2.5 moa with 55 grain perfecta .223 rem and 1.5-2 moa with 55 grain Magtech 5.56 M193 loads guns good enough for me folks and I still payed only 70% MSRP thanks to IWI's LE program

>>31209158
>hot cases hit me in the chin
That's what tactical beards are for.

>>31209819
>terrible grammar
>that range ninjaded out gun
>LE
Oh that explains it. At least it looks like you got the optic the right way around..

>>31209821
that's what my helmet is for just ordered some custom kevlar inserts to my uniform to give me IIIA protection to my cargo pockets lower leg pockets and side upper combat shirt pockets. was only around 170 cash

>>31209839
it costs more then your car in parts alone.You will never own a wilcox RAPTAR ES you will never know the feel of having better equipment then your local precinct or military buddies. I have a scale and my trigger pack and other options only added 1.57 lbs to overall weight

>>31209867
>you will never know the feel of having better equipment then your local precinct
Already do
>or military buddies.
Already do

I'm sure you can take all that shit off and throw it on your airsoft gun to impress your pals too.

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>>31209867
>>31209839
when you become a shekel master let me know

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>>31209894
how'd you know? have a 1200 dollar airsoft gun that's bullpup aswell has a thread in place for my RAPTOR aswell its quite fun with the foam filled training supressor. Still waiting on my class3 griffin SD2 that's still in nfa jail

>>31209976
>w'd you know? have a 1200 dollar airsoft gun
You guys are some the most true to the stereotype kinds of people out there so.

>>31207756
MAC is paid by IWI. That's a fact.

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>>31209819
>>31209867

holy shit he's back

>>31210003
I love all guns and various weapons of war if it can shoot somthing and kill someone its cool enough to talk about

>>31209819

weren't you the same guy hardcore shilling your SAR tavor in that other tavor thread?

The one so insistent it was 10000% better than the x95 when in fact they're basically the same gun on the inside?

>>31206928
This is a problem with plastic guns, just like the G36. The barrel and mechanism of a gun need to be mounted rock solid in an aluminium or steel receiver.

>>31209716
>which is known to introduce all kinds of interesting harmonics compared to inline DI
Like what? And of what magnitude?

I keep seeing "harmonics" brought up but noone actually talks about it. Literally the only person I've ever seen talk in depth about barrel harmonics is Varmint Al, and I have never ever seen anyone here discuss his findings.

Is all gun talk just people pretending to know more than they do?

>>31211717
What are you talking about? The G36 is the only rifle that actually uses polymer mounting, the rest just have polymer bodies the same way older rifles used wood.

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>>31211751

Not that guy but I think he's talking about the moment arm within the action (bolt I guess) introduced by the offset force of the piston operation. This is what results in "carrier tilt" on piston-driven ARs.

In the AR (which isn't a DI system like everybody memes) the gas is solely used to unlock the BCG. There isn't really a moment arm, and pretty much only axial forces act on operating the bolt.

What this means in terms of firearm accuracy I really have no idea. I mean you have some fantastically accurate piston-driven rifles out there so it's not like that system is inherently inaccurate or anything.

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>>31211786
>What this means in terms of firearm accuracy I really have no idea.
Nothing because by the time any of the action moves the bullet has left the barrel.

Carrier tilt has nothing to do with harmonics. See this is what I'm talking about, nobody seems to even know what barrel harmonics are, let alone have a clue on their magnitude or impact on accuracy.

http://varmintal.com/amode.htm
LITERALLY the only person I've seen not talking out of his ass about harmonics, and he even suggests the effects are so minimal they are pointless when compared to forced deformation (something fucking nobody ever talks about).

If you want to talk the effects of actions on mechanical accuracy then let's talk about how this thing can shoot MOA twice in a row on one trigger pull.

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>nobody has posted best jewrifle

You guys are slipping

>>31207699
Even though MAC can't get his hands on ZQI ammo he still shill about them. Just check Sig torture test he mentions ZQI like 10 in each video

>>31211920
It's even more mediocre than the Tavor. I will never understand Galil shills.

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>>31211846

god that fucking thing is demonic soviet space magic

>>31211846

Oh so when people are talking about harmonics they're talking about actual vibrational harmonics of the barrel itself?

That makes more sense. But still like you said the action does not unlock/disengage until after the bullet has left the barrel so how would the type of action affect anything? I can't imagine it making a difference.

>>31212026
The only way the type of action will impact accuracy is if the construction leads to a non-concentric change of pressure on the barrel when the gun get hots.

Basically uneven heat expansion, which is just shoddy design. There's no reason why a long stroke piston should be worse than anything else if you design the housing right.

I suspect it's just IWI cheaping out on construction, which is extremely common in the gun industry. Almost everything is designed, not to be the best, or even good, but simply adequate.

The problem is that bullpups have certain technical and ergonomic challenges that can't be half-assed if you want to actually see benefit over a traditional layout, like the trigger linkage, fire control and mag release, length of the action/stock and location of the ejection port. This requires ingenuity, but most of all it requires not cutting corners, which is the exact opposite of what most major gun manufacturers do. So you end up with rifles that were designed to be exactly average but have unaddressed technical issues that make them substantially worse while failing to capitalize on the advantages of the layout (have you seen the length of pull on some of those things).

tl;dr bullpups require commitment to get the benefits and they almost never do (instead they just try to put the trigger on the other side of an AR-18 clone as cheaply as possible)

>bullpup meme
end it

IDF vet. Sorry to say, but on the Micro (what we call the x95) you got a pretty gimped version to get around export/import laws. The Tar 21 you got was okay though, and I liked it better anyways.

>>31212232
Can you tell us exactly what got gimped?

Personally the only real benefit I saw from the X95 was the reduced stock/action length, mostly due to removing the spacer at the very rear. But recently I see images where it has been added back on so I'm not even sure about that.

>>31208224
I wouldn't say it's "bad" but for the price of the x95 you can put a Larue barrel on an ar15 which is guaranteed 1 MOA

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>not having a lightweight, forward ejecting, underwater capable, UGL integrated, suppressed bullpup

>>31212680
> suppressed
>UGL
Loud or quiet choose one

>>31212706
>what is masking source of fire
It's not like blooptubes are particularly loud. If anything explosions (and sonic cracks) are going to make it extra hard to correctly detect and identify any muzzle rapport.

So, no, go fuck yourself. Suppressors are always good. And so are UGLs. It's just a matter of weight/size.

>>31212680
What gun is this?

>>31208146
RDB and MDR if they ever hit proper production status.

>>31208211
I can buy a 1MOA guaranteed Tikka for like $500. A gun nearly four times the price should not be three times less accurate even if it's semi auto.

>>31213204
ADS rifle

It's the follow up to the APS rifle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APS_underwater_rifle

>>31208146
The one I'm designing. It will be the best rifle ever made.

>>31211846
>this thing can shoot MOA twice in a row on one trigger pull.
But it doesn't.
AN-94 shots 2 round burst with 8-14 MOA accuracy (prone-standing)
http://forum.guns.ru/forummessage/2/1648555-12.html

>>31208211
>millennials think X95 shoots 2-3 moa
Will they ever learn?
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/279218_The_Trouble_With_3_Shot_Groups.html

>>31213413
Do I have to build it?

>>31213235

HAHA you're a fucking retard
I actually laughed out loud at this comment

>>31208519

>A3
>only decent version
>no bolt release

nigga u wot

>>31209158
lefty scum should learn how to shoot the proper way, right handed

>>31211922

>"MAC is a shill"
>still watches his videos

>>31208183
You take that back.

>>31214418
I'll take you back to my underground bunker and give you a spanking

>>31214287
What's a good gun then?

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>>31207742
The Tavor, well, it's the Tavor. That's the gun whose development started in the late 90's and was addopted by it's main marketing tool, the Israeli Defence Forces, in mid/late 00's. This is also the version that was sold in the US in the past few years.
The X95, aka MTAR or Micro Tavor, is, in package terms, what the M4 is to the M16A1. It holds little to no changes to internal parts, but places those in smaller, even more compact body than the Tavor. In addition, it holds several smaller design changes, which mainly include: switch to a "classic" AR15 mag release, shifting of the charging handle to the more backward position (bit less ergonomic, but more suitable for CQC as it's less likely to get caught in doorframes), slim-er profile for the bolt release, more&better placed rails as well as greater customization options.
Due to US laws, the civilian version of the X95, is, de facto, the same length of as the "full-fledged" Tavor by having a longer barrel and thinker butt-stock. This beats the entire original purpose of the X95, but still offers the other changes and improvements mentioned above.

>>31211991
At least 90% of it is cute foxgirl memes from Upotte.

>>31214252
>t. Merchant Ashkenazi Channel, by the way I sure do love ZQI ammo

>>31209819
>>31209867
Thank you for existing.

>>31214643
Does that mean the proper X95 has the same accuracy issues?

>>31209819
Learn to fucking write in a way that is understandable you fucking inbred.

>>31207756
without a doubt MAC gets paid by IWI. Fuck kykes. death to israel and the jews

>>31215754

I would imagine so, they really are identical on the inside

>>31214287

slap the charging handle you dingle

>>31212232
>>31212309
It's the exact same gun minus the buttpad.
>>31214643
Not all the x95 have a 13" barrel. The 16" barrel isn't just for civilian US sale.

Fucking idiots need to stop using BF4 wiki as their source material.

>>31217425
Still not as good

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>>31206999
>>31209908

MIDF always shows up in these threads and it's pretty obvious

I'm not even disputing X95/Tavor has issues, I don't know. But you can tell the butthurt sand nigger posts from the legitimate criticism ones.

>>31220506
MIDF?

>>31223027
MIDF is JIDF pretending to be muslims

>>31206969
>See the 3 or 4 videos MAC has just about the accuracy of the gun because there's so much missinfo.
Thank you for correcting the record.