Hypothetical Operator Scenario

It would have to be entirely covert. Hostages would be killed as soon as word of a large attack force started.

Would be super secret operation. Guard all cave entrances with drones and jets 24/7. Blow up any buildings within miles to destroy any tunnel exits. Starve them out. Don't care about hostages. Get Intel.

>>31204887
But anon, what if your waifu is one of the hostages?

>>31204699
>pump fast-acting knockout gas into the whole god damn complex
>keep all persons sedated long enough to rush a bunch of basic fuckin rangers or some shit in and pull out all hostages and intel
>evacuate the area to a tune of a 2 mile radius
>allow enemy to wake up
>carpet-bomb the whole god damn local mountain range until it's nothing but a massive pile of gravel covered in powder burns
>broadcast the bombing on every major news channel over and over again for 72 hours straight
>¿?¿?¿?
>profit

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>>31205122
I'd be ready

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>>31205263
>pump fast-acting knockout gas
Privyet comrade.

>>31205263
>knockout gas
I was hoping you were serious because I expected someone to suggest this. The Russians tried this idea once dealing with Chechens. The result was lots of dead hostages.

>>31205341
Alrighty then.

So we threaten to kill them all in extremely painful ways if they don't just give up. They try calling our bluff, we just start shoving POWs into woodchippers. Not scheduled shit. Just one after another, in a line like we're checking movie tickets. How do we prevent being charged with war crimes? Jam the whole mother fuckin area so not a damn communication can get in or out besides our hardlines. It doesn't take a whole lot of money to completely isolate a small area from the outside world.

>>31205341
They were able to get the hostages out and killed all the terrorists, but they got screwed by their own government
>cyka blyat Chechnyans have taken over the theater
>xaxaxa not to worry comrade, here is glorious Soviet sleepy gas
>Dimitri you are of genius
>okay all terrorists killed we have the hostages
>hostages are at the hospital, what is the antidote
>we can not tell you, classified information
>oh shit

>>31205377
An entertaining thought for sure, but I want serious answers here.

Besides, what are you gaining from executing terrorist POWs? These guys are jihadists, they think dying is glorious, hell they probably think the more excruciating your death is the more virgins you get. Best case scenario the guys in the cave don't care, worst case they start killing the hostages in return. But now, they're setting them on fire, because they'll play your dirty game.

>>31205431
Okay.

Drown them in pig's blood while a bunch of naked women jab them with frozen pork shaped into spearheads.

>>31205428
Didn't they pump too much in and a lot of people had some kind of reaction to it that killed them? I know the results were very mixed, some chechens didn't even get knocked out.

>>31205454
It wasn't that they pumped too much in, it was that the gas didn't spread equally over the theater like they had hoped, due to how the building AC had been constructed. They had also planned to go in 20-30 minutes after the gas had been pumped in, but we're told to wait longer to ensure the gas had taken effect. The gas did work in the theater, all the terrorists equipped sigh suicide vests had fallen asleep and were executed during the siege, those in other parts of the building were less effected but Alpha Group took them out.

Not all of the deaths could have been prevented, some died of suffocation because they had fallen asleep head backwards with their tongue blocking their airway, some had actually been crushed when they loaded them in buses, but most could have been saved if the government told the doctors what the hell was in the gas.

>>31205122
That's a sacrifice I'm willing to take

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Frankly, storing hostages in a cave is fucking genius. You're gonna hear everything that happens in there, especially gunshots. The intel would be shredded and the hostages killed after the first few bursts of gunfire. I'm going with super sneeki breeki operatives to secure the sensitive objectives. The only strategy I could think of would be to use an informant to find weak points in the cave near the sensitive areas. The splinter cell dudes sneak in through preexisting entrances, strike the intel and hostages hard and fast and then escape through the weak points, with engineers outside blowing them out with the best explosives they got. After that, just war crime the fuck out of the entire cave with irritant gas through the front, back, sides and top to suffocate them. After two days, move in to occupy and search the cave. Even if plenty of them get away, you've still destroyed a major hideout.

>>31205543
>all the terrorists equipped with suicide vests had fallen asleep and were executed

Ah yes I forgot about this. Now I'm picturing spetsnaz shooting unconscious Chechens point blank with AKs.

>>31205593
Ok, then lets say for arguments sake that there are indeed multiple entrances and the operators have an accurate map of the cave system leaked from an informant.

>>31205624
Would have done it with a smile, fuck Chechens.
Anyway, you have to remember that there were 700-800 people still in that theater guarded by 40 terrorists armed with suicide vests and rifles who were mods than willing to blow it all up to kingdom come. It is regrettable that 130 died, but if they hasn't used the gas there might have been more deaths than Beslam.

>>31205593
This is just something I thought up in 5 minutes.
Realistically, you would need several carpet bombings worth of explosives to create enough breaches for the gas, and large enough breaches for the operatives and their panicking hostages/huge ass piles of intel. I just couldn't imagine sending soldiers into that cave while it's live. Entrenched riflemen, machine guns, suicide bombers and booby traps in an easily modified series of coridoors would be extremely taxing on an infantry incursion.

A fucking thousand, and less than a dozen hostages?

That's not hostages, that's near-zero collateral damage.

Thermobaric JDAMs in every cave entrance, mission complete.

If you were looking for body trades, think of it this way: 1:20 kill ratios in favorable conditions, 1:3 to 1:4 in bad conditions.

If SF were in such a scenario, they'd laser-designate the cave for bombs. Because part of being SF is using your brain instead of being an expendable meat drone.

>>31204699
>1 operator for every 10 terrorists
What the fuck am I reading?

Anyways, if your 1000 insurgents are Russian or Chechen or something, good luck bringing 10000 spec ops within a 100 km from them, they're not inept.

If you're a soulless fucker that believes that Muslim insurgents are rag head terrorists, then it's still not possible to rescue the hostages because the entire facility would have to be vaporized completely.

Either way, there's EM weapons that disable human nervous systems and there's also other funky alternatives that deal with the aura.

>>31205761
>EM weapons that disable human nervous systems and there's also other funky alternatives that deal with the aura.
>aura
Explain

>>31205755
But these aren't just any hostages, anon, they're all white god fearing Americans. A few of them are from the CIA. They have information the president wants.

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>>31205761
>the aura
Wat

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In all seriousness, just a couple of these.

You aren't going to take an underground bunker with a thousand people in time to save any hostages, and you aren't going to take it with ground forces with less than a dozen dead.

>>31205822
So what? It will be a massacre getting inside; you won't have fewer than a hundred casualties.

Any professional soldier will tell the president it's not possible. Any unless these hostages are the world-famous reincarnation of Space Jesus, any president is going to listen.

>>31205822
If the hostages were that important, they might work out some sort of negotiations to rescue the hostages, then kill the insurgents once they have the chance

>>31205830
>>31205797
Like crystal weapons that mess with your psychic aura to make you subservient and/or sleepy. It's real. look it up bro.

>>31205889
Did I somehow end up on /x/?

You might be onto something with sonic weaponry though. I'd imagine blasting caves with painful frequencies might cause disorientation and confusion among the terrorists. But realistically it's probably not that effective.

>>31205543
This, it's the reason the siege is especially bad, civilians could have been saved by the paramedics but they wouldn't/couldn't say what the gas was

>>31206141
I'm not buying it. Administering naloxone and stimulants seems like too obvious a choice. There's not many drugs that could effect such a rapid knockout while being aerosolized and they're all opiates.

>>31206205
The paramedics didn't even know it was a gas.

They were expecting a bunch of guys with gunshot wounds and shrapnel injuries.

>>31206214
Ah, that makes more sense.

>>31206205
They did administer naloxone but there were still issues because hospitals simply didn't have the resources to treat 700 people who had came in heavy contact of a mysterious gas that even today the Russian government has not identified.

>>31205593
>with irritant gas

like burning Urushiol? Let them enjoy it for a while.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxicodendron_radicans

It won't be done.

>>31206205
That's some interesting knowledge anon, are you an EMT or do you just do opiates?

>>31206745
EMTs aren't smart enough for that shit. maybe a Para would know, but ambulance riders generally don't know this shit

>>31206745
I'm just a drug nerd. In theory you could do it with extremely potent benzos but I'm unaware of anything that would fit the bill.

I think >>31206282 is right in that it was more a matter of overwhelmed responders than super sekrit Russian™ knockout gas.

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Its the ME which means poppy field's just gather a bunch and burn it all in the cave so the dank gets them all high :-):-):-):-):-) then send in ur guys with gas masks B-)B-)B-)B-)B-)

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>>31206805
Or SCUBA gear:-$:-$:-$:-$:-$