Is the Blackhawk even all that good of a transport helicopter?

it was an improvement over the huey, and that's all that matters

in a similar vein, expect tiltrotors to completely replace the majority of helicopters in the military

>>31203621
>in a similar vein, expect tiltrotors to completely replace the majority of helicopters in the military
Once they stop crashing whole the time, sweetie.

>>31203627
>Once they stop crashing whole the time, sweetie.
Daily reminder that the Osprey has the best service safety record of any rotary wing aircraft in US service.

>>31203645
Aren't they grounded as we speak though?
:^)

>>31203661
The V-22? Not that I know of.

>>31203527

What else are they going to use? The NH-90?

>>31203661
No. They aren't. Just watched one head out 20 minutes ago.

>>31203661
No, I literally flew in one on Wednesday night.

>>31203661

As are Harriers and Super Stallions

It's the Marines being fucking paranoid as fuck, not anything specific about the V-22

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=96009&page=1

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>>31203679

>>31203686
>As are Harriers and Super Stallions
>It's the Marines being fucking paranoid as fuck, not anything specific about the V-22
>http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=96009&page=1
Anon. Jesus. Did you read your own source?

>The Marine Corps said it was temporarily grounding all 11 of its MV-22 Osprey tilt-rotor aircraft
>all 11 of its MV-22 Osprey tilt-rotor
>all 11
>11
No year on the byline. This is clearly from about a decade ago.

>>31203645
When the competition is Crashhawks and a bird with a small enough power plant that the gross limit is less than full fuel, ammo, and the 2 lightest pilots ever...yeah, good numbers.

>>31203686
I don't think that article is from this year.

>>31203697

The CH-53E is roughly 3x heavier than the Blackhawk. Sure they're both utility healicopters, but they aren't really directly comparable.

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>>31203706
https://www.rotor.org/Portals/1/ResearchDatabase/Study_on_Military_Rotorcraft_Safety_and_Survivability.pdf

>yfw the Blackhawk has a lower average Class A mishap rate per flight hour over its service history than most other US Army aircraft

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>>31203627

The V-22 has had an acceptable service record since it was introduced in 2007. So much so that Bell is going forward with the V-280 which will likely be the Blackhawk's replacement. Even though it does require a larger takeoff/landing pad, it has over double the range of the existing machine and that is a huge advantage. And, like the V-22, it's wings can fold up into the same profile as the Blackhawk for storage.

This tech isn't going to go away, now that it is finally (after 20+ years development) here it is staying. Next up is a C-130 or airliner (100+ seat) sized tiltrotor.

The larger question is if it will bleed out into the civilian market. If Boeing can make a 100-seater VTOL with a range of 1,500 miles suddenly downtown-to-downtown airline service (through helipads) becomes a real possibility.

>>31203743
>>31203706
Here. Have another study source.

http://www.ihst.org/portals/54/montreal/colonelpetemapes.pdf

H-60 was better than the H-1 or H-53 in mishap per flight hour metrics.

>>31203743
Are we looking at the same chart on page 3? Those blue and yellow bars are pretty damn big.

>>31203760
Why don't they just buy V-22s? Size? I personally love tilt rotors. One step closer to a real life pelican.
>inb4 google faggot
no u

>>31203799
Now look at fleet size or overall average fleet flight hours compared to the others on that list. Those lavender bars should be about 1.5 times larger.

>>31203527
>successfully transporting stuff from point A to point B for the last 30 years

maybe

>>31203697
protip: c = cargo, u = utility

>>31203799
>>31203815
It's just like the F-16 mishaps over the last two decades. People think it's falling out of the sky, but they don't realize just how many more of them there are compared to other aircraft in service. When you look at THOSE numbers and account for total flying hours and look at mishaps per 100k flight hours, they fall into line.

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>>31203810

The V-280 is smaller, faster and has better range. The V-22 is basically a medium sized transport while the V-280 is meant to be combat-oriented.

Also a larger V-22 (ie, something the size of a DC 9) means better economy (ie profit) per seat and most airlines want at least 100 people per plane.

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>>31203527

Comparatively, no

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Why do the Marines still use the UH-1 and refuse to buy UH-60?

>>31203882

because they're the muh reeens

if you require a further explanation don't even try to understand it

>>31203846
>>31203760
Prop wash from landing alone would basically make the idea of downtown to downtown transport infeasible. 22s had a nasty habit of flipping the massive steel plates they used as landing pads in Aghanistan. Something with that much more carrying capacity is going to have a fuckton of prop wash when it lands.

>>31203882
They need a gunship to work directly with their AH-1. They share parts commonality being that their both based on the Huey.

Blackhawk is too big for the role and gunship versions are expensive. Although the UH-1s in the Marines has shown to be expensive also. Muh reens gonna muh reen I guess.

>>31203899

Helipads can be expanded if need be, making the prop wash a non issue. The much larger problem is the much larger weight of tiltrotors : the V-22 itself is 33,140 pounds, the Blackhawk is only 15,200 and a Bell 206 1,583. I'd reckon most skyscrapers with helipads cannot take the weight of a fully loaded VTOL airliner on their roofs.

I mean, figure that a DC9 weighs 80,000 pounds, a 737 about 90,000. That's about 100 times what existing roof helipads typically get.

>>31203849
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_military_aircraft_(2000%E2%80%9309)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_military_aircraft_(2010%E2%80%93present)
From 2000 to present, there have been:
>26 Mil Mi-8/17 crashes
>30 H-60 variant crashes
just counting those in military service.

It should be further pointed out that the H-60s were flying substantial numbers of combat hours almost every one of those years, not to mention a high operations tempo as naval variants executing at-sea landing operations. The Mi-8/17? Much, much less on both counts.

I can almost guarantee that if mishaps per 100k flight hour rates were compared between the two airframes, we would see the H-60 come out ahead.

>>31203985
It's not an issue of expanding the helipads to accommodate size, it's an issue of the propwash generating so much force it would literally tear the helipad apart.

Although you are right, weight would also be a big issue if you wanted to land it on a building.

>>31203760
>The larger question is if it will bleed out into the civilian market
The italian AW-609 already has orders for 60, most of them civilian.

>>31203760
Oh man, imagine navalized V-280s on LCSes as our ASW screen.
>all that speed and range
If they have equal or greater payload compared to a Seahawk that's a game changer.

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It's apparently good enough that the chinks want to copy it

Z-20 soon, comrades

>>31204223
That is fucking hilarious.

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>>31204280

Chinese helicopters are all about copying and buying from other countries.

There Z-8 for example is just a Super Frelon on license

>>31204314
Yes, but why would they copy a 40 year old design? Even modernized, it's toward the end of its efficient design life. Time to move on.

This is worse than the J-10 and J-17. Sad and hilarious at the same time.

>>31204223
How bad do you think friendly fire from confusing enemy vehicles with friendlies (and vice versa) would be if the US and China did actually go to war with each other?

>>31204396
I'd assume that the stealth-plane swarm would wipe the entire Chinese aviation inventory out before we sent in anything they had a chance to copy.

It's the minivan of aircraft, but it's still one of the best damn minivans ever.

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Out of the way faghawks, new hotness comin' through

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>>31204223

>Soon

They've already built some and decided they don't like it

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>>31204176
>We Red Alert 2 Now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJghKRXViDE

>>31204396
Actually this could be a cause for concern. Not familiar with IFF, but VISID will be trouble unless livery is very different. I wonder how different there's would sound compared to ours.

Also, daily reminder that the Sino-Soviet split was partly due to China stealing and copying as much as they could from Soviet designs and engineering and built their entire industrial culture on stealing and copying rather than innovating.

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>>31204314
I like them there cute and chunky

>>31204651
those are two different aircraft

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>>31204664

Slow and fat, easy pickings for stingers

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Is the Kasatka any good?

I really only know about it because it showed uo in a video game

>>31204995
who knows

it's pretty much vaporware

>>31205022
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P71Nc19Zi8

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They are beautiful, ugly, durable, pieces of shit. Ask anyone that has ever maintained them and they will be a love/hate relationship. If you have ever been in a line maintenance company then you have earned the right to bash the fuckers, but we will argue about how fucking incredible they are to anyone who hasn't.

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>>31203527

Get's the job done

That's all you can ask of anything you ever use in the military. It either gets the job done or it doesn't, there is no other qualification.

And the Blackhawk does what's asked of it.

>>31203621
>expect tiltrotors to completely replace the majority of helicopters in the military
lol

not fucking close
tilt rotors are shit and can't do like 90% of what helicopters do, they are at best just transport planes with shorter runway needs.

>>31203527
Yes.