LOL ATF can't use computers

>>31187437
“People don't think,” Charlie tells me. He's a trim guy, 51, full lips and a thin goatee, and he likes to wear three-piece suits. They fit loose, so the overall effect is awkward innocence, like an eighth grader headed to his first formal. “ I get e-mails even from police saying, ‘Can you type in the serial number and tell me who the gun is registered to?’ Every week. They think it's like a VIN number on a car. Even police. Police from everywhere. ‘Hey, can you guys hurry up and type that number in?’ ”
“It's a shoestring budget. It's a bunch of friggin' boxes. All half-ass records.”

>So here's a news flash, from Charlie: “We ain't got a registration system. Ain't nobody registering no damn guns.”
There is no national database of guns. We have no centralized record of who owns all the firearms we so vigorously debate, no hard data regarding how many people own them, how many of them are bought or sold, or how many even exist.
What we have instead is Charlie.

>“Can I go smoke a cigarette while we discuss it?”

>Anytime a cop in any jurisdiction in America wants to connect a gun to its owner, the request for help ends up here, at the National Tracing Center, in a low, flat, boring building that belies its past as an IRS facility, just off state highway 9 in Martinsburg, West Virginia, in the eastern panhandle of the state, a town of some 17,000 people, a Walmart, a JCPenney, and various dollar stores sucking the life out of a quaint redbrick downtown. On any given day, agents here are running about 1,500 traces; they do about 370,000 a year.

>>31187462

Man I am really fucking up the green texting here
>“It's a shoestring budget,” says Charlie, who runs the center. “It's not 10,000 agents and a big sophisticated place. It's a bunch of friggin' boxes. All half-ass records. We have about 50 ATF employees. And all the rest are basically the ladies. The ladies that live in West Virginia—and they got a job. There's a huge amount of labor being put into looking through microfilm.”

>I want to ask about the microfilm—microfilm?—but it's hard to get a word in. He's already gone three rounds on the whiteboard, scribbling, erasing, illustrating some of the finer points of gun tracing, of which there are many, in large part due to the limitations imposed upon this place. For example, no computer. The National Tracing Center is not allowed to have centralized computer data.
>“That's the big no-no,” says Charlie.

>>31187478
>That's been a federal law, thanks to the NRA, since 1986: No searchable database of America's gun owners. So people here have to use paper, sort through enormous stacks of forms and record books that gun stores are required to keep and to eventually turn over to the feds when requested. It's kind of like a library in the old days—but without the card catalog. They can use pictures of paper, like microfilm (they recently got the go-ahead to convert the microfilm to PDFs), as long as the pictures of paper are not searchable. You have to flip through and read. No searching by gun owner. No searching by name.

>“Okay?” Charlie's tapping a box of Winston Reds. His smile is impish, like he's daring you to say what needs to be said: This is a fucking nightmare.

>“You want to see the loading dock?” We head down a corridor lined with boxes. Every corridor in the whole place is lined with boxes, boxes up to the eyeballs. In the loading dock, there's a forklift beeping, bringing in more boxes. “You go, ‘Whoa!’ ” he says. “Okay? Yeah, but a million a month?” Almost 2 million new gun records every month he has to figure out what to do with. Almost 2 million slips of paper that record the sale of a gun—who bought it and where—like a glorified receipt. If you take pictures of the gun records, you can save space. “Two million images! You know, it's 2 million photo shots. I've got to have at least seven machines running 16 hours a day, or otherwise, right? I fall behind. And to fall behind means that instead of 5,000 boxes in process, there's maybe 5,500 tomorrow, you know?

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>>31187437
Oh no, duh big scary gun lobby did a bad thing again :(

>>31187491
“Do you want to see the imagers? I'll show you. Imaging is like running a copy machine. So, like, if there's staples? So what these ladies along here do, from this wall to this wall, from six in the morning until midnight…staples.”
>It's hard to tell if he's complaining, or bragging.
>“All this, everywhere, all these hallways, the boxes,” he says. “We've been as high as 15,000 boxes backlogged. When we go over 10,000, the General Services Administration dudes are walking around going, ‘We'll collapse the floor.’
>“And then Denise says—did you meet Denise? Denise says, ‘Let's get some shipping containers! They're like 70 bucks a month to rent.’ So we put shipping containers out in the parking lot here.” He pushes open a heavy metal door and there they are, three red, one orange, and one blue, pinged with rust, sitting on the hot asphalt with weeds popping through. “See, now we fill these up. Um…” He yanks the latch on the orange one, bends his knees as he heaves open the door. Inside it's the same as the corridors: boxes. “Maybe 50 times a day a trace will come in for gun records in those boxes. Right? So, 50 times today somebody will be out here hand-searching boxes because we don't have them imaged yet.
>“You want to go see the microfilm archive?”

>But why shouldn't a gun be like a car—or food? If you need to know the history, you call a number and somebody's got the information. If we have an E. coli outbreak, we don't have much trouble getting to the offending bags of lettuce.
>Guns don't work that way.
>The last time Congress seriously addressed the notion of creating a way to keep track of America's guns was 1968. Back then, assassination was the thing. First President Kennedy, then Martin Luther King Jr., then Robert Kennedy. The outcry was nearly identical to the one we have now: too many guns, too few regulations, too many crazy people shooting with abandon.

>>31187509
I was chuckling from the very start of this article

>>31187510
>The Gun Control Act of 1968 was an attempt to impose order. It set up the Federal Firearms License (FFL) system; gun stores would have to become licensed and they would have to follow certain rules. Felons, illegal immigrants, and crazy people would be prohibited from buying guns. People would have to sign a document, Federal Form 4473, also called the Firearms Transaction Record, swearing that they were none of these things. (Background checks to prove you weren't didn't come until 1993.)

>President Lyndon Johnson, who signed the act into law, was at once jubilant and depressed. He had wanted the law to establish a national gun registry, too, but Congress wouldn't agree to that part. “If the criminal with a gun is to be tracked down quickly, then we must have registration in this country,” Johnson said. “The voices that blocked these safeguards were not the voices of an aroused nation. They were the voices of a powerful lobby, a gun lobby, that has prevailed for the moment in an election year.”

>It was the same conversation we're still having—except now mass shootings are the thing. We average at least one a month. Since 1968, more Americans have died from gunfire than have died in all our wars put together. In 2014: 33,599.

>Who's doing all the shooting and where are they getting all those guns and how many do they have and can't we get control over this clusterfuck? Wouldn't a national gun registry give us a tool to stop some of the killing?

>No, says the gun lobby. It would give the government a tool to confiscate our guns. The idea of a gun registry is the great fever dream that lies at the heart of gun-control conspiracy theories: Government evildoers are going to attack us any day now. We have to be ready. (And you don't give the enemy an inventory of all your weapons!)

>>31187541
>The Gun Control Act was an abomination, from the gun-lobby point of view. Especially Form 4473, which they considered all but radioactive. Even though there wasn't a registry, there was suddenly a document that existed, a piece of paper linking a gun to the name of its owner. Surely the Second Amendment was thus doomed.

>In 1984, Form 4473 even showed up in a movie, Red Dawn. Soviet paratroopers invaded Colorado, and they went on a search for gun owners by getting their hands on a bunch of 4473s. “I'll give you my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands,” was a popular NRA bumper sticker at the time and a variant was featured prominently in the movie.

>It would be reasonable to assume, as many people do, that since 4473 is a federal form, the feds have them all locked up somewhere safe, but they don't. They are kept at the store that sold the gun; only when the retailer goes out of business do the gun records come here to the tracing center, which accounts for Charlie's box problem. Those are just the out-of-business records he's dealing with in the corridors and the shipping containers in the parking lot.

>“Those are just the out-of-business records,” repeats Charlie, for emphasis.
The vast majority of the gun records linking a gun to its owner are kept back at the various licensed dealers, the Walmarts, Bob's Gun Shops, and Guns R Us stores dotting America's landscape.

>>31187560
>We have more gun retailers in America than we do supermarkets, more than 55,000 of them. We're talking nearly four times the number of McDonald's. Nobody knows how many guns that equals, but in 2013, U.S. gun manufacturers rolled out 10,844,792 guns, and we imported an additional 5,539,539. The numbers were equally astounding the year before, and the year before that, and the year before that.
By law, the system must remain intricate, thorny, and all but impenetrable.

>Matching a firearm to a person—tracing a gun—is therefore a needle-in-a-haystack proposition that depends on Form 4473. To the people at the tracing center, locating that document is the whole object of the game. It's the holy grail. The form has the gun purchaser's signature on it, his or her address, place and date of birth, height, weight, gender, ethnicity, race, and, sometimes, Social Security number (“Optional, but will help prevent misidentification,” says box 8).

>It's a jackpot of information that could help solve a murder case, or exonerate an innocent guy on death row, or, as happens frequently, open unexpected investigative leads.

>>31187579

>Last December two gunmen opened fire at a holiday office party in San Bernardino, California, killing 14 people. Remember: Nobody knew who these maniacs were or why they were doing this. After a shoot-out, the cops recovered a Smith & Wesson handgun, a Llama handgun, a Smith & Wesson M&P assault rifle, and a DPMS Panther Arms assault rifle. At the National Tracing Center, they figured out where the guns came from, as well as who bought them—the slain assailants. Syed Rizwan Farook and his wife, Tashfeen Malik, had purchased the handguns legally between three and eight years previously at Annie's Get Your Gun, an FFL in Corona, California. Farook and Malik were discovered to have posted an oath of allegiance to the Islamic State on Facebook just before the attack began. But what about the assault rifles—they were still a mystery. Turned out a former neighbor, Enrique Marquez, bought those during the same time period. The FBI picked up Marquez, who is alleged to have been plotting attacks with Farook at Riverside City College and on state highway 91 as early as 2011. Remember: We didn't know too much about radicalized homegrown jihadists until then.

>It was a trace just like any other trace that happens here in Martinsburg. The ATF completed it within a few hours, despite a system that, according to federal law, must remain intricate, thorny, and all but impenetrable.

I always assumed the way traces were done was to contact the manufacturer and determine which distributor got that serial
then go the distributor and find out which shop got that serial
then go to the shop and figure out which customer bought that serial
then go to the customer and follow bills of sale (if they exist) from there

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>>31187593
>So, take that murder we began with. Blood all over the place, cops looking for clues, the booties. They find the gun! What happens next does not involve the wizardry of some supercomputer somewhere. It hinges on a phone call.

>That cop with the gun dangling from his pinkie. He dials the tracing center and describes the gun. This is Step One. Let's say, for example, he reports that he's got a 9-mm semi-automatic Beretta 92.
This would seem to be a straightforward matter. It's not. Cops are bad at describing guns. This is because many guns look alike and the nuances can be fantastically minute and critical to a successful trace.
“You don't think of Egypt making pistols, but they make a knockoff of the Beretta,” ATF specialist Scott Hester tells me. He's a slim guy with a ruddy complexion in a black ATF polo shirt. He's been tracing guns for a decade. We're in his cubicle, and I can't help but marvel at all the horrible newspaper clippings he's got hanging everywhere, including one on the San Bernardino case, for which he and his team won an award. “I did Tucson. Pick a shooting. Pick a gun crime,” he tells me. “Pick whatever you want—a firearm event that's any type—and one of us here has done it. That's just the nature of what we do. Triple homicide here. Six killed here. Triple homicide there. Murder here. Boston Marathon there. I mean...”

>>31187603
I figured they just had a database that didn't require anybodies help to use. Guess they don't have anything close

>>31187609
>So, okay, not a Beretta 92, and not an Egyptian knockoff, but a Taurus PT 92 made in Beretta's factory in Brazil. Let's say that's our gun. What's the next step in tracing it back to its original purchaser?

>“I need the serial number,” Hester says. He lifts his shoulders in an exaggerated shrug and lets out an ominous sigh.

>Serial numbers: not so simple. “It gets worse and worse, more and more problematic.”

Serial numbers, it turns out, are tangled clogs of hell. Half the time what the cop is reading you is the patent number, not the serial number, or it's the ID of the importer, and then you have the “zero versus letter O” problem, the “numeral 1 versus letter l versus letter small-cap I” problem, and then there is the matter of all the guns with duplicate serial numbers (various Chinese guns, certain pre-1968 American guns).
“Okay?” Hester says, in a pleading sort of way. The number one reason gun traces go dry is because the cop got the gun description or the serial number wrong.
I tell him I need to move on. I could never work here. I tell him let's pretend there's a miracle and we definitely know we have a Taurus PT 92 and it has a legible serial number.
We may now move on to Step Two.
Step Two: Hester calls the manufacturer (if it's a U.S.-made gun) or the importer (for foreign-made guns). He wants to know which wholesaler the gunmaker sold the weapon to. Basically you say, “Hey, who did you sell this gun to?”
Gun importers are licensed by the ATF, and they have to keep records of acquisitions and sales. So the importer has to go through all his gun records and find that particular Taurus PT 92 with that particular serial number, find what batch it was in, and tell you what wholesaler it went to.

>>31187633
ha, so it is done the way I thought

>>31187633
Grod damn it


>Congratulations. You have found your gun owner. “I get a sense of ‘Yeah, I got you, pal,’ ” Hester tells me, about what it feels like to find just the right 4473. It can take people at the tracing center 70 phone calls on one trace alone. There are rows and rows of cubicles filled with ladies on phones doing the calling, but not everything happens by phone. They do have some Internet in the building: e-Trace is a system that allows cops to submit requests for gun traces and get the results back by computer, if they're subscribers. They can also mail the requests in. Either way, once you have found the name of the gun owner, you get back to the cop who initiated the trace.

>“And then I say, ‘Okay, your trace is done; I got the buyer,’ ” Hester tells me. “And they say, ‘Oh, who is it?’ ” Maybe it's one of the suspects. “And he'll say, ‘Are you sure?’ And I'll say, ‘I've got this form in my hand here. I'm looking at the form. I can tell you for a fact right now the purchaser and possessor are the same person.’ And without exception, these guys are like, ‘Oh, man, you're a rock star. You're a god. Man, you rule.’ ”

>we don't want a national registry we just want to help the police :'((((((

>>31187656
Missed a bit, gotta take a phone call, finish in about ten to fifteen minutes

I like it this way
a gun can be traced for criminal investigations sorta easily (I suspect the article is using at least some hyperbole to sell their agenda), but only the gun can be traced
it only works one way, you feed a serial in and get the owner out
you can't feed an owner or potential owner in and get a list of guns they own

let's keep it exactly this way

Anyone up for some arson?

>>31187724
Kek

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>>31187491
>>That's been a federal law, thanks to the NRA, since 1986: No searchable database of America's gun owners.
God bless the NRA.

>>31187742
All that paper. Burn real nice.

This post goes between here>>31187633 and here>>31187656
Step Three: You call the wholesaler and say, “Who did you sell it to?”
The wholesaler, who also has to keep such records, goes through the same rigmarole the importer or manufacturer did, and he gives you the name of the gun store that ordered it from him. Let's say it was Walmart.
Step Four: This could go one of two ways.
If the Walmart is still in business, you call it. The actual store. Not corporate headquarters, or some warehouse, but the actual Walmart in Omaha or Miami or Wheeling. You call that store and you say, “To whom did you sell this Taurus PT 92 with this particular serial number on it?” By law, every gun dealer in America has to keep a “bound book” or an “orderly arrangement of loose-leaf pages” (some have been known to use toilet paper in protest) to record every firearm's manufacturer or importer, model, serial number, type, caliber or gauge, date received, date of sale. This record corresponds to the store's stack of 4473s, which some clerk has to go dig through in order to read you the information from the form. Or he can fax it.

>>31187721
Fuck off commie shit. That whole building should be burnt to the ground.

>>31187745
seriously, that's fucking based

>>31187754
>But hang on, because maybe you didn't get so lucky. Maybe you're working on a trace, and it turns out that the Walmart that sold the gun was one of those old cruddy Walmarts that closed down in the 1990s. This leads you back, as almost everything does, to Charlie's boxes.

>All the out-of-business records that come in here—2 million last month—are eventually imaged and organized according to the store that sent them. It might be 50,000 Form 4473s from one Dick's Sporting Goods in some suburb of Cleveland. So, say you need to find one particular 4473 from that store. “We go through them,” Charlie tells me. “Just like photographs from your Christmas party, and we look through every one. Until we find it.”
More than 30 percent of all traces lead investigators here, hand-searching through boxes, or going frame by frame on microfilm readers, looking for a 4473 from Mom and Pop Gun Shop long after Mom and Pop closed up shop.
>“It's in here somewhere,” Linda Mills tells me. I meet her in the “roll room,” a cavern of beige drawers you pull out and pick among—40,000 rolls of microfilm in all, each with about 10,000 frames on it. “I'll find it,” says Mills. She's in her 70s and due for retirement and wears her white hair long and down her back. She's looking for the record of a person who bought a >Remington 870 12-gauge shotgun that was sold by a now defunct dealer in Denver. She thinks she picked the right roll, so she carries it back to her desk, where the lights are as dim as a closet's, and where a microfilm reader circa 1973 is planted. Here she will sit, as she has for the past 18 years, turning a dial right while countless images zoom past.
“>I'm looking for a W,” she says. The images are the color of asphalt, and the writing on them looks like tiny pebbles, and they whiz by so fast, I begin to get actual car sickness. I ask her how she can possibly read anything moving this fast.

>>31187759
muh, muh, muh
yeah, ideally guns should be free and open and no serials or paperwork anywhere, but that ain't the way the world works

if there must be a registry, or "registry", I want it like this

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>>31187633
>all that writing and ablooblooblooo ebil gun lobby why u not want a national registry
>finally have to admit none of this shit matters going through old 4473s from defunct gun shops
>finally have to admit that they just call the manufacturer/distributor, then the wholesaler, then the gun shop
>don't admit that it doesn't fucking matter and 99/100 times they've discovered the owner of the stolen firearm recovered from a crime.
>don't admit a national registry wouldn't change that in the slightest.
6/10 REEEEEEs

>>31187745
>feels good man

>>31187783
>if there must be a registry
>if
Nah

>>31187437
>http://www.gq.com/story/inside-federal-bureau-of-way-too-many-guns
Do they really keep all the records in the same place like that?

>>31187776
>"I'm looking for a W,” she says, picking up a magnifying glass and leaning in toward the upper left of the screen. She's hunting for the first letter of a 15-character code atop the defunct dealer's record books. “Sometimes they'll just put the numbers, they won't put the alphabet.” Now she's squinting, one eye closed, the machine whirring, the images zooming. “
>We had 8's. We're still in the 9's. See, now it went on to a different gun again…. But if we get past—wait!”
>Abruptly, she hits the “stop” button. “See, here's W's.”

>>31187796
Seems that way, /k/omrade
>>31187802
>SIxty-five percent of the time, workers at the tracing center are able to successfully trace a gun used in a crime back to the original purchaser. A routine trace takes about a week, but they can turn an “urgent” around in 24 hours. The San Bernardino case was an urgent. The Boston Marathon bomber case was an urgent. Gabby Giffords: urgent. Charleston. Aurora. Fort Hood. Columbine. Washington Navy Yard. Sikh temple. Just figure every crime you ever watched endless horrifying footage of on TV involved somebody here in Martinsburg searching through a rat's nest of records and then experiencing a moment of jubilance upon seeing that, yes, this is it, here is the 4473 that belongs to that lunatic. (Or his mother. Or his uncle. Or the pawnshop dealer who sold it to someone else. Tracing the gun beyond the initial point of purchase is on the cops.)
>This is the maddening, inefficient way gun tracing works, and there is no effort afoot to make it work any better. For all the talking we do about imposing new limits on assault weapons, or stronger background checks, nobody talks about fixing the way we keep track—or don't keep track—of where all the guns are.
On just one of the days I visited the tracing center, there were 5,000 trace requests in the hopper awaiting attention. There would be about a thousand more the next day.
>In 2013, recognizing how important tracing is for solving crimes, and for providing intelligence regarding patterns of illegal gun trafficking, President Obama asked for more of it: He signed a memorandum demanding that all firearms recovered in the course of criminal investigations be traced.

>>31187794
ok, go petition your congressman or senator to get them to abolish form 4473s and burn all existing records publicly
see if they'll do it
they wont because that sort of shit would be political suicide

while you're working on that, I'm gonna sit in my room here secure in the knowledge that although there is a record of the guns I own, searching for the records is as onerous and slow as possible and only useful to find and owner from a serial and not a serial from an owner

>>31187796
Needs an accident. Maybe electrical. Such an old buying, full of dry flammable paper.

So wheres the part where they ask if any of this solves any crimes

or the rate at which 4473's actually equate to current owners of a firearm

>>31187818
>35% of the time the ATF lost the fucking 4473's out of incompetence
W E W L A D

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Pic related is on the machines that could be looking up your name for your guns RIGHT NOW! Unless you dindu nuffin
>>31187818

>But Congress didn't give Charlie any funds, or manpower, to accommodate an influx. In fact, his budget has been flat since 2005. What Charlie got from Congress is the same thing he always gets: scrutiny. “If a stick drops in the road, we're getting some pressure,” he tells me. The idea—which is forcefully pushed by the gun lobby and implanted in the heads of lawmakers at the behest of the NRA—is to make sure Charlie is not using his power to access America's 4473s to secretly create a searchable database.

>There is no other place in America where technological advances are against the law. Unless you count the Amish. Even if a gun store that has gone out of business hands over records that it had kept on computer files, Charlie can't use them. He has to have the files printed out, and then the ladies take pictures of them and store them that way. Anything that allows people to search by name is verboten.

>>31187818
>He signed a memorandum demanding that all firearms recovered in the course of criminal investigations be traced.
this seems counterproductive for law enforcement
one of those measures devised by politicians with no knowledge of the reality

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>>31187491
>That's been a federal law, thanks to the NRA, since 1986: No searchable database of America's gun owners.
this kills the commie

>>31187826
>I'm gonna sit in my room here secure in the knowledge that although there is a record of the guns I own, searching for the records is as onerous and slow as possible and only useful to find and owner from a serial and not a serial from an owner
Ha yeah say that this time next year cuck when they've translated it to an actual database. I can't wait until Shillary's squad pays you a visit. You deserve it for supporting this.

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>>31187437
>Since 1968, more Americans have died from gunfire than have died in all our wars put together. In 2014: 33,599.
Yet we're seen as the uneducated cretins incapable of the most basic statistical analysis.

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Pic related puts that one anons inheritance with the handguns, the rifles, the fucking gyrojet and a whole buncha other shit look like nothing in comparison

>>31187839

>So wheres the part where they ask if any of this solves any crimes
I assume that happens sometimes, but I don't recall the rate at which it occurs being brought up
>>31187840
>To be clear: Charlie doesn't want names. “You got a dead guy in Chicago, right? So what name did you want me to look for?” he points out. “I ain't got a damn clue! Nobody else does, either. I don't need to be able to search by the name. If I knew the name, I wouldn't have to trace the gun.”
>Still, you never know. The NRA, which, in the words of its CEO, Wayne LaPierre, regards the ATF as “jackbooted government thugs,” demands that Congress keep an eye on things.
“Hitler and Stalin, like every dictator who perpetrated genocide during the 20th century, assiduously confiscated guns before starting the genocide,” wrote gun-rights activist Dave Kopel in a recent NRA publication.
“Registration. Confiscation. Extinction. Each step makes the next step much easier.”
>None of which has anything to do with what actually happens here. People here are trying to help cops on the street nab bad guys. “We are a factory producing investigative leads,” says Charlie. That is the point of the place in its entirety, despite anybody's worry.
>“They say, ‘They've centralized the records. We're comin'!’ ” Charlie says. “Checking all different angles. ‘Are you keeping—you know, how are you keeping information? Are you collecting information you shouldn't be? Are you accessing information you shouldn't have access to? Has the computer world at the tracing center gone too far? We might need to back you off a little bit.’
>“You go, ‘Back us off? Back us off?’ ”

>>31187867
>Recently, Charlie had a heart attack. “Yeah, it was pretty—yeah. They cut a hole in my arm, jammed a catheter up there, blew out the blockage. Then they sewed it back up. I rolled the windows down, drove to North Carolina, hung out on the beach the next day.”
>He tells me he looked at the ocean, the waves rolling, seagulls gulping. He sat there and thought about his life, and what it would be without cigarettes.
I> ask him if he thinks the stress of being the person in charge of keeping track of America's estimated 300 million guns—with the aid of little more than a photocopier—had anything to do with his heart giving out.
>“I gotta go to the hospital on Friday for like five hours for tests to make sure I'm not gonna keel over dead soon,” he says.
>We're in his office again, and he's in his shirtsleeves and his tie is loosened. He's chewing gum madly. He'll never smoke again. “Sometimes you just kind of wonder if you train-wrecked the thing, would you get more money?” he says, referring to the lack of funds and his frustration with this place. “ ‘Well, yeah, we couldn't solve this one!’ ‘Well why not?’ ‘Couldn't find the microfilm. Just took too long!’ Right?”
>Officials fear the tracing center's floors could buckle under the weight of all the incoming gun forms.
>He glances out his window toward the parking lot. It's surrounded by a chain-link and barbed-wire fence lined with a black screen so no one can see in.

>>31187863
they always inflate the numbers with suicides, justifiable shootings by civilians, and accidents.

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>>31187818
>>31187844
Ironic Obummer probably crippled this program by making sure every untraceable 50 owner, 20 murder 32s&w saturday night special has to be searched from waterdamaged records of a pawn shop that closed down in the 70's to contact it's long dead original owner

>>31187893
>He tells me he has a wife he loves. “She's not the kind of wife you're gonna expect. She's an arson-and-explosives expert. She's working on a serial arsonist tonight.” He's got four kids and two grandbabies he loves. He's painted portraits of all of them. “Oil paints,” he says. “I read a book on it. How the masters, like, painted.” He's looking somewhere just over my head, like he's imagining all of this in the air. “What is the color that I used. Okay, burnt sienna. You get that on the outline, right?” He tells me about his guitar and learning flamenco music. “I got a book on it. But I hit a plateau.” He tells me about the history of the blues. “I got a book on it. You go, ‘Well, I gotta dump the nylon string. I need, like, an amp.” He tells me he blew his amp on “Gimme Shelter” the other night.

>He started with the ATF as an agent in Detroit, infiltrating street gangs. That was his hometown. The auto industry, robots, process control—he loved that stuff. He studied computer science and industrial engineering in college, then joined the army full time and became an intelligence officer. “Which is, you know, the movement of large quantities of information, figuring out what's worth a damn.” Given his background, the ATF figured he might excel at more than gang work. “They said, ‘Hey, you might be a good fit for something that's computer-heavy,’ which…which we are in a certain sense here.”

>Just without the computer.

>He got to the National Tracing Center in 2005. He never expected to stay. It was a stepping stone to maybe a cushier deal maybe up at headquarters in D.C.

>>31187593
>>It was a trace just like any other trace that happens here in Martinsburg. The ATF completed it within a few hours, despite a system that, according to federal law, must remain intricate, thorny, and all but impenetrable.
This part is a load of absolute horseshit. The CA DOJ maintains a record independent of the Feds in the form of the DROS, well at least that used to be the most effective way for them to track guns. Now there's laws that require long gun and handgun registries; but the handgun registry is pretty god damn old and they would've no doubt been able to trace the handgun to the purchaser within minutes.

I coulda sworn Sigma Six and ISO 9000 is mentioned in Dilbert. Anyone ever worked with these things?

and don't you want to rescue pic related, /k/?
>>31187911
>But then he started to think about ways to work with the antiquated system—and make it more efficient. Would it even be possible? “You mind if I do the whiteboard thing?” he says, standing up. It's covered in numbers, arrows, circles, and dashes. “I don't know what my mojo was here,” he says, looking at it, and then attacking it with the eraser. “I went to the bookstore just looking for a way to organize better and I just… Right?” He's looking at his tray of markers, trying to pick. “Like, ISO 9000 stuff, right? And you just stumble across something, you look at it and go, ‘Well, that looks like what I'm looking for.’ Six Sigma, you know that kind of stuff?' ”

>I have no idea what he's talking about.

>“I just found it at Barnes & Noble,” he says, in a tone suggesting that this shit is basic.
>He uses the blue marker. “I mean, I know that the average person can type in 1,600 gun descriptions per eight-hour day,” he says, scrawling the numbers. “Why? Because I time-and-motion studied them. And then—I don't know if you know anything about queuing theory. Do you have one line with three cash registers—or do you have three lines come into one?” Arrows, circles. He's moved on to the black marker. “There's a whole science of mathematics behind queuing theory. So what we did was, I sat around trying to figure out what would be the best way to queue the traces up and punch them through....

>“Let's say yours is one hour, 60 minutes. Yours is one minute, yours is one minute, and yours is one minute, right? One minute, one minute, one minute, one minute…one, two, three minutes…”

>>31187829
Anon, I would never condone such a thing, but if another Oklahoma City Bombing type incident were to occur I think I'd prefer it'd happen here.

>>31187541
>Who's doing all the shooting

Nigs

This man was so bureaucratic he "became a computer" I'm not making this up
>>31187917
>In these moments, I realize that during his tenure here at the tracing center, and faced with the obstacle of no computerized search technology, Charlie went ahead and turned himself into the computer.
>Soon he's got the green marker going, and next it's purple. He sees it all on the whiteboard and in the air, and soon he is spinning and pointing. “…So now it's 69, 72 minutes, divide by 4…4 goes into that once…32, 80…My turnaround time just became 18 minutes! I just shuffled you around in a different order. Average turnaround time. Right?”

>It doesn't matter if I follow; he's so happy about all this I want to clap. For five years Charlie took it upon himself to create a new workflow system for the tracing center, breaking down each step in the tracing process into equations, doing time-motion studies for actions as minute as how long on average it takes the ladies to go from their desks to the roll room. Every step was analyzed and rethought, the numbers crunched.
>And now? Despite no increase in budget, no new technology, no new staff: “I'm doing twice as many guns, twice as fast, and almost twice as accurately as we did when I got here in 2005.”

>He tosses the markers in the rack, sits down. I can tell he wants a cigarette.

>Charlie didn't train-wreck anything. Charlie did the opposite. And maybe there's some solace in that fact alone. If America has to have this gargantuan arsenal of personal firearms, and no registration system, no laws allowing us to keep track of them like we do, say, cars, or household appliances, or bags of lettuce, well, at least we have Charlie. You can pass laws and add amendments until you paralyze an entire institution, but you can't outlaw the natural human urge to make life better.

>>31187964
<“So we fire the Glocks through as fast as they go into mainstream tracing, and we send the gun made in the Czechoslovakian factory, which is gonna take a genius an hour, send Czechoslovakia over here…. That's how you start stripping time off stuff!”


>What's in it for any of these people who don't ever seem to leave the National Tracing Center? I meet one woman who's 84 years old. She unpacks boxes. She says she won't leave until they kick her out. Nobody here seems all that put out by the microfilm reading, or the staple removing, or even the box sorting. “I love tracing,” people say.

>Back in the cubicles, I sit with an ATF specialist named Daniel Urrutia. He's a big guy, shy, a blocky head and a thick accent. He's been here 18 years. Everybody I talk to has been here years and years. Urrutia tells me about a 96-year-old guy who got robbed and beaten nearly to death in his own home; the gun trace that Urrutia did on the stolen gun is what broke the case and how they caught the assailant. He tells me about an 8-year-old girl who got killed, and a college girl who got raped, and in both cases the gun trace Urrutia did solved the crime. He tells these stories in detail, explaining why he searched one place, rather than another, and how critical these choices were, and how he agonized over them, and somewhere in the middle of the stories, his eyes well up. At first I think he's got allergies or something—he is not a person you imagine crying. “When I first started, I was the lowest salary in the whole tracing center, as a contractor,” he tells me. “Now I'm doing this.” He points to a framed letter from the Floyd County, Indiana, police, thanking him for the valuable role he played in nabbing the monster who beat up the 96-year-old man.
>The longer I stick around the National Tracing Center, the more emotion starts pouring out.

>>31187964
I'm actually really pissed the reporter glossed over this workflow stuff
I'm sure it was actually super interesting to someone who can follow the logic (STEM people), but the reporter got scared off by the numbers and tuned out

What a bunch of low-information libtard agitprop. Holy Jesus fuck.

Oh shit we're 'bout done!
>>31187982
“I've had situations where the tracing's been done where the guy bought the gun, you know, 25 years ago and he's still got the gun and he did something stupid with it. I've had situations where the person bought the gun two hours before the crime. I had a lady who bought a gun five minutes before the crime. She went home and killed her kid, and then herself.
“There are some that will stick…. A lot of them stick in my head and won't go away.”
“I know I should move on,” Linda Mills tells me, hours after she first started zooming through microfilm looking for the Remington shotgun, which she has not yet located. Sooner or later you're supposed to give up and start a new case, but she's not surrendering. “You think, ‘What if it were my child, or what if it was my parent, or what if it's somebody that I love whose life is involved?’ ”
“The day of the Newtown shooting,” Urrutia says, “I was the whole day here. A day and a half. When I sleep? I slept here.”
That's the one I hear most about. Everyone I meet eventually wants to tell me what that day in 2012 was like.
“Newtown was traumatic,” Charlie tells me. “People were bawling and tracing and bawling. Everybody's going, ‘Oh, my God, somebody's done what? It's a kindergarten class? Who, what, how many?’ There's confusion. We start to get a little bit of stuff.

>>31187994
fuck off Phil
go shitpost about trannies or something

>>31187954
>bombing

no such thing!!

just some sparks in the storage rooms.

>>31187938
Six Sigma and ISO 9000 are decades-old management buzzwords about making processes efficient, reliable, and repeatable. They were thrown around a lot in the early Dilbert strips.

This is not to be confused with ISO9660, the standard that governs the structure of a CD or DVD image.

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>>31187994
Sorry to disturb your night, /k/omrade

That's all, folks. Gonna go eat oatmeal now

>>31187998
>Everybody's jumping around, waiting for anything they can get. We gotta get this, you know, right? We gotta do something, we gotta do something, we gotta do something. C'mon, c'mon, let us, give us a chance, right? Put us in. You know? Give us, give us—give us a way to contribute. Let us do our part. Because that's, you know, that's what I get out of this whole thing.
>“You go, ‘What do you get, Charlie?’ Right? ‘What's in it for Charlie?’ That's what I get.
>“This place looks to you like a factory. Right? It looks like a factory and a government cube farm. And that's what it is. But 1,200 traces a day, of which we have no idea which one's going to save somebody's life. You don't know which one, so which one do you get to mess up on? Which one do you go slow on? Which one?

>Uh—well, none of them, right? None of them.”

>>31187964
I think charlie is the personification of busybody statist tenured government employee whose job only exists because a busybody higher up created it to "solve" a problem, just like the old crone making 50k+pension sitting in front of a microfiche machine for 18 years.
>glad he keeps having heart attacks

I'm picturing him as cross between detective dixon and the violator from spawn.

>>31187998
>Trying that hard to trace a gun when the autist that used them is already confirmed dead and the rifles are already in police custody
lmao at bureaucrats and their attempts at logic

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>>31188057
I think this is him

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>>31187593
>Remember: Nobody knew who these maniacs were or why they were doing this.
OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE

>>31188004
Phil is completely and totally correct on this one.

>>31187982
>tracing
>stolen gun
>gun tracing
>"cracking the case"
>assault and battery
fullstop, what a goddamn lying fucking blowhard.

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>>31188077
I just noticed he has a strong resemblance to Charlie from It's Always Sunny

>>31188077
>sports watch with casual dress
>vest
>top button of vest undone
>tie off center and done wrong
seems like the kind of guy who'd do a useless government job

>>31188178
hair and goatee already marks him as a bureaucratic douche.

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MFW I have a 03 FFL

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>>31187867
>“Hitler and Stalin, like every dictator who perpetrated genocide during the 20th century, assiduously confiscated guns before starting the genocide,” wrote gun-rights activist Dave Kopel in a recent NRA publication.
>“Registration. Confiscation. Extinction. Each step makes the next step much easier.”

>None of which has anything to do with what actually happens here. People here are trying to help cops on the street nab bad guys. “We are a factory producing investigative leads"

>>“Hitler and Stalin, like every dictator who perpetrated genocide during the 20th century

>>“Registration. Confiscation. Extinction. Each step makes the next step much easier.”

>>like every dictator who perpetrated genocide during the 20th century

>>None of which has anything to do with what actually happens here

>>Confiscation. Extinction
>>like every dictator who perpetrated genocide during the 20th century

How soon we forget

Never again doubt the aid the NRA gives to Gun Rights. On the same note, an old fart told me the ACLU opposes a national firearm ban, but they don't like talking about cause it turns off their base. But I'm not so sure about that

Good night, /k/, and don't let documents become attached to your funs

OP made my night. Haven't laughed this hard in a while. I almost feel bad for the journalist though, as I doubt he knew how much we would relish this. And fuck him for skipping the fruits of Charlie's labor. He got the shit end of the stick for sure but it's not my fault he chose the wrong career path. He could have had an interesting future but now his existence seems largely fueled by a desire to spite the futility thrust upon him.

>>31188523
It's a she

>>31187982
if they love anything it's government money when you're 80 fucking years old. who else is going to pay an old fart good cash for menial labor?

>>31187437
I'm pretty sure when they run a trace, they send out actual detectives to addresses.

I was hoping this thread would give me some wild clue that the atf couldnt detect forged nfa records. No dice.

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>>31187510
>Maybe 50 times a day a trace will come in for gun records in those boxes. Right? So, 50 times today somebody will be out here hand-searching boxes because we don't have them imaged yet.

>>31187745
If the NRA had half as much power as the libs think it does we would be living in a nation where you buy full auto guns and ammo out of a corner vending machines. The NRA is an important tool to keep the proposed liberal "compromises" from being written into law.

>>31187784
This

>>31187633
wahh, cops can't read or identify guns, it's all the NRA's fault

>>31187857
Different anon here but...
>actually supporting the feds kicking in somebody's door
>saying the victim deserves it
>not realizing this is why bad things happen

Just because the idea of a registry sets off the freedom bells doesn't mean that, in the hypothetical situation where we need one, there isn't a best-case option. Cool your jets kiddo.

>>31188798
Why not just register everyone's fingerprints to the DOJ then?
It'll be much easier to solve crimes since guns are barely used

>>31187994
You're 100% spot-on with this shit, every single day I feel like we're nearing closer and closer to some dystopian novel's setting. I'm thinking of all those futuristic jabs at big government and corporatism told from the perspective of a hateful underclass just trying to chip away at the bigger system.

I really wish we had gotten the cool kind of cyberpunk instead of this shit.

>>31188466
>On the same note, an old fart told me the ACLU opposes a national firearm ban, but they don't like talking about cause it turns off their base. But I'm not so sure about that
That's actually probably spot-on, the ACLU is an organization of pedantic people dedicated to arguing about something useful: people's rights. Basically pick the most deranged autists you can find, replace their opinions with "individual rights," and then point them toward a court room, that is literally who they are right down to pulling up the most inane and useless facts from obscure places to prove themselves right.

They're the organization who argued against post-slavery injustices, defended black people in court, and then they turned right around and defended some KKK guys. If you might have a right fucked with in some format they're the people to call, it's like if you concentrated the worst boards down into pure, weapons-grade autism and blasted a grand jury with it until they gave up and agreed with you.

>>31188876
The EU is the awful corporate government they want for the whole world. That's why Trump and Brexit and other nationalist movements scare them shitless.
>hello we're here to help, please give us control of trade, guns, and the internet
>NO :DDDD

>>31188835
>Why not just register everyone's fingerprints to the DOJ then?
>It'll be much easier to solve crimes since guns are barely used
That depends on what you might call a "best case scenario" because some would say that's awful. Some people would say that's terrible, and I think the idea of making everyone register their fingerprints skirts that line of "this can be used to oppress."

I'd be willing to concede to the regressive leftists on shit like permits and a registry but only if an equal compromise is made. Here's something I came up with awhile back

- Permits can't be denied if the qualifications are met under *any* circumstances, they can only be revoked upon conviction in a court of law. (and thus after you server your time you reapply)
- This new permit classification system replaces the NFA and all gun control legislation.
- Any confiscation of firearms as material evidence or otherwise may not exceed one year, and if the weapon is damaged in any way the confiscating department or agency shall be responsible for restoration to original condition.
- Carrying (which is included in the permit system at all levels) is nationally recognized, those with advanced training (at any level) may not be denied entry into "gun free zones" with their weapon concealed. (this is a concession to the anti-gunners)
- Any additional increase in qualification requirements needs a 3/4ths majority in both the senate and house to pass PER ITEM.
- Removal of requirements for any level follow normal legislative procedure.
- Permit registry open only to law enforcement/DOJ

I suggested this to a gaggle of them once and their smiles literally flipped upside down, it was amazing. They heard "permit" and "registry" and then I started elaborating and they thought it was horrible. I said, "well that's a compromise for us."

One of these days I'll write up a proposal for the system, I'm leaving some stuff out that I can't think of right now.

>>31187867
How quickly it goes from helping cops catch the bad guys to helping cops catch the bad guys... Only thing now is those words don't mean the same thing they did...

>>31188546
He meant Charlie, not the reporter.

>>31189018
Personally I would only undo the full auto ban and change nothing as it is only if they SEVERELY cut funding to ALL welfare programs and outright shutting down most of them. If they want to make it harder to get a gun, it should be much harder to recieve free food and money for doing jack shit in this country.

Gun violence will plummet, gangs and ghettos disappear overnight, black people dwindle down to only the ones raised like actual people and almost all illegal immigrants will literally move back to their own country of their own free will.

The only reason this doesn't happen is because Democrats have a hand in the coffer of every welfare program (and public school system) in the country. Also if a civil war starts over this, it'll literally be ghetto trash and dindus vs normal americans and police, as it should have been from the start.

>>31189338
Trump is already planning to cut illegals off from bennies. The anal clench of East Los Angeles will be measurable by that graviton detector in Louisiana.

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Run a trace, go ahead

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>>31189382

Sit around fellas story time...

Buy gun from a shady dude of a dude of a dude. It was cheap, so why not? Call up my cop buddy, tell him to "run the gun for me" I tell him the serial numbers and model. He calls me back within 30 minutes and let's me know the gun is stolen.

Alternatively my pops made a mistake on a gun form with a missed number on his social security number, they gave him the gun cleared him by phone. He has felony. A few months later FBI calls him and made him hand over the gun. no charges just a stern "don't do that again."

>>31189382

What caliber? Did they grind down the rear sight ramp?

>>31189338
Only really counts if the welfare program is federal and is funded through general taxes, one of the most helpful welfare programs, WIC, gets a massive share of it's funds from tobacco taxes. When I smoked I was fine with that, I knew where my money was going and I knew that WIC only goes towards getting moms food to feed their children; you cannot use it for anything other than childcare or infant needs. It's impossible. Democrats have jack shit to do with programs like that.

As far as other welfare programs go I don't know, but I imagine it's a situation akin to gun control: there are laws on the books that don't go enforced. Or in the case of welfare they get bent or ignored because we have an insurmountable number of welfare recipients and not enough agents around to follow up on investigations.

>>31189365
Illegal immigrants cannot possibly get welfare without committing identity fraud. That's why the Democrats want them to be suddenly legal, they're not able to vote and they're out of reach of the programs the Democrats like to throw around.

Right now illegal immigrants can't do 99% of the shit the alt-right peddles, they can participate in come-as-you-are anonymous programs but so can anyone else and they're anonymous for a good reason. Frankly if somebody, illegal or not, is turning to those types of services then they genuinely need them, things like addiction recovery and city-funded food shelf establishments aren't contributing to the nasty inner-city thug culture.

I do a lot of shelter work so I know a lot about welfare programs, but holy shit some of the people who show up are legitimately insane, I've yet to see a gang banger come up for some powdered milk and chicken noodle soup.

There were times though some hung around outside to harass the junkies, it's frustrating to host a support group and then a pack of niggers are just outside trying to sell. I flashed my .454 once when this cornrows faggot wouldn't fuck off and he got the hint.

>implying the ATF isn't a cover for a domestic animal population control agency
>implying they aren't amazing at their actual job

>>31189474
You ever wonder if it'll just get chalked up to gang violence? :3

>>31189444
Stolen gun reporting is different. Dude calls local PD and says
>Hey my Glock 40 problem solver, serial
#666-69-myasshole, got stolen.
And it goes into PD database to be checked if ever picked up at a crime scene.

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>>31189465
8x52R

I am unsure if the rear sight ramp is ground down. I don't think so given the markings

>>31189514
Its a Mauser, I'm assuming Siamese by the markings. Am I correct?

>>31189542
Yeah siamese mauser. Picked it up for 199.99+tax

It was sitting at my LGS for over 4 months. No one wanted it because they didn't want a rifle they couldn't shoot so it went from 299.99 to 199.99.

Feels good.

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>>31187998
>Muh sandy habbening
>Slept at my desk
>Spent all day looking at microfiche guys!
>Bought from a big box in the last 5 years, so went through the usual bound book distributor, wholesaler, store system
>News knew in a few hours that it was the moms that he killed for it
What a lying fucking cunt

I knew the database was shitty, but I didn't realize it was this shitty. This makes me very happy.

>>31189566
They have to keep these stories to avoid killing themselves.

>>31187541
>>It was the same conversation we're still having—except now mass shootings are the thing. We average at least one a month. Since 1968, more Americans have died from gunfire than have died in all our wars put together. In 2014: 33,599.
IF YOU DONT FUCK OFF WITH THIS BULLSHIT

>>31189490
>You ever wonder if it'll just get chalked up to gang violence? :3
What do you mean? If I actually blasted one? Maybe, here's how it went down:

>be me, refilling coffee pot (because caffeine is an OK addiction to have)
>tweakers shuffling around being tweakers, I feel at least 15% nervous at all times because of this
>suddenly hear commotion in the hall
>go outside, see five black dudes cornering this guy who looked like if you took a rat and made it a person, right down to big buck teeth and little beady eyes
>I hear him say he doesn't use anymore
>see nigger take his hand and stuff a bag of meth rocks in it
>I am upset
>"excuse me, what is this?" I ask politely, hiding my powerlevel
>"we be chillan just talkin wif mufugg bix nood"
>despite having lived in the city for awhile I still cannot understand niggers nigging
>"are those drugs? uh, don't you think that's a little disrespectful? do you know what we do here?"
>they laugh and babble ebonics at me some more, I guess they understand what we do
>"only a real asshole sells meth to somebody trying to get off meth, get the hell out of here"
>"shieeet wadermelon mofuggen dat cracka bix hunga bunga"
>my powerlevel is too great to hide
>open vest, show .454 Casull
>"give me a fuckin' reason to draw and I swear on all the little green apples God put on this Earth I will make it happen"
>rat tweaker stares at me like I just grew another head
>niggers shuffle away making threats
>"I hope you do."
>word spreads, it becomes known I carry a piece of artillery
>no presence of dindus outside the shelter/foodshelf for the duration that I volunteered there

They drove by me once really slow and I had the big dick nigger slayer out and ready to rock, the best part is I didn't even want to carry a goddamn revolver but it was the only handgun I owned so I just started doing it.

>>31187776
i know a gun store in central texas that went out of business and contacted the ATF about what to do with his records 3 different calls with 3 different agents who all responded with IDK so he waited 6 months after going out of business and burnt them all

>>31189589
God damn it. "show .454 Casull" should be "show Super Redhawk in .454 Casull"

Glad I'm out of the city now, I liked it but I just couldn't handle that shit forever.

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>>“Hitler and Stalin, like every dictator who perpetrated genocide during the 20th century, assiduously confiscated guns before starting the genocide,” wrote gun-rights activist Dave Kopel in a recent NRA publication.
>>“Registration. Confiscation. Extinction. Each step makes the next step much easier.”
>>None of which has anything to do with what actually happens here. People here are trying to help cops on the street nab bad guys. “We are a factory producing investigative leads"

>>31188409
>How soon we forget

No kidding... What, like five seconds?

>>31189615
Were the Tyrone's extra afraid of your giant cracker cowboy revolver?

If I was a social scientist I'd do a study into what reactions various hominid items had on your statistically average individual IE
>Giant ass N frame revolver in .357 vs snubby j frame in .357
>hipoint v glock vs nickel Jennings full size vs 92fs vs inox 92fs
>Aluminum bat vs Louisville slugger v axe handle
>Machete vs katana vs kitRay fantasy sword vs longsword

To see how pop culture and such effects people's perceptions.

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>>31187911
>>31187893
>charlies had a hard life
He might work for them but he's an honest guy

>>31187603
That requires actual effort, you really think your detective or cop or whoever is going to go through all that for a run-of-the-mill shooting involving nobodies or gangs or druggies.

>>31189697
They did seem particularly impressed by it's size and my complete 180 demeanor change, I think one highlighted the other. I think if I saw a guy flash that at me I'd question if he could draw it fast, but I think the sheer size and the shiny factor made it some mystical talisman to them.

I do like the idea of that study though, but I think the second one wouldn't be much of a difference since the general population would probably just go "UHHH MURDER PISTOL" without differentiating between gun world memes. We really do put a lot of stock into the differences between Hipoints, Glocks, and Berettas but I think for most people it's color, size, and number of sharp edges that are the defining features.

Still. Fund it. (would probably make for some good TV too)

>>31189474
Why not just hire more agents? How hard can it be to go ask clinics for info on their insurance to see if they're legal or not?
Also, the problem with those programs is that mothers aren't penalized for having more kids or for having a lot. It should be counted as irresponsible, even if they are all raised with sufficient personal funding.

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>>31187437
>Except—no. You are watching too much TV. It doesn't work like that.

Good, it shouldn't work like that.

Fuck the police, if their job is too hard for them, the can quit and get another more in line with thei talents (like McDonalds).

Americans have a constitutional and human right not to be spied on by the cops.

>>31187478
>Man I am really fucking up the green texting here

Then stop doing it, it's fucking stupid and only makes the thread difficult to read.

>>31189777
Nice trips

The handgun part could probably be a study in and of itself regarding size and coloration. My hypothesis would be that people would react more scared of a nickel Jennings compact than a normal anodized/polymer pistol like a glock. The Beretta vs Beretta inox would be a good direct comparison.

Another to add would be full frame vs compact vs subcompact and whether coloration mattered.

Also side by side vs OU vs pump vs semi auto

And AR vs AK vs lesser known guns like tavors and AUGs

And buck 119 vs kabar vs kitchen knife vs tactical faggotry fixed blade

I get a feeling that pop culture and media would influence people into being more afraid of the more striking/media oriented versions of the same tool.

So by extension it would make more sense to get a silver gun, a machete or tactical katana, a fixed blade tactical knife/tanto, etc. Because people are retarded

>>31189740
If only aiscjwotz had men like him

>>31189018
>One of these days I'll write up a proposal for the system, I'm leaving some stuff out that I can't think of right now.

The proposal as written would be impossible without a constitutional amendment. The federal government does not have the right to preempt state permits and gun control legislation in such a manner.

One way you could try and achieve a similar affect would be to force states to reciprocate other states' carry licenses. The federal government should have this right under the commerce clause.

You may be able to sort of preempt gun control laws by allowing purchase in other states and guaranteeing the right to own any firearm in any state.

I don't think you'll ever be able to force states to get rid of or make uniform their handling of gun free zones.

>>31189807
>Why not just hire more agents?
"fucken welfare is dumb ban it!!!!!!!!" Republican cockblock.

>How hard can it be to go ask clinics for info on their insurance to see if they're legal or not?
That defeats the purpose entirely, you want addicts to come in and feel safe so they can talk about their problems and get better. Advancing beyond that into actual rehabilitation centers, group homes, and so on is a different deal, I'm talking about programs that are more "outreach" than anything else.

Once you start saying, "hey give me all this personal info and also sign these papers oh and you need to provide insurance and all this other complicated stuff," they'll fucking run out on the street. As I said some that come through have SEVERE mental illnesses, you get one chance and one chance only to bring them in. These people are the type who somehow got addicted and then had no mental faculties to figure out how to deal with it, the fact that they show up is a miracle.

>Also, the problem with those programs is that mothers aren't penalized for having more kids or for having a lot.
>It should be counted as irresponsible
Yeah because authoritarianism goes hand in hand with American values!

Nope. Pass. Take that to Iraq or North Korea, doesn't belong here.

>>31189848
>The handgun part could probably be a study in and of itself regarding size and coloration.
Oh, definitely.
>My hypothesis would be that people would react more scared of a nickel Jennings compact than a normal anodized/polymer pistol like a glock.
I imagine that would be backwards, the ~tactical~ black guns being more intimidating that a nickel-plated one since it conjures up fudd images. Hard to say, pop culture doesn't really bother with handguns anymore. I think they lost their appeal in the 90's, before that I think the handgun had a lot more appeal and was more up front in the public's mind.

You're right though, people are retarded and because of that it's hard to say.

>>31187437
Are these the records of all the dogs shot?

>>31188178
>traceing guns used in crime
>useless

Really nigga?

>>31187784
I think they should at least be allowed to do the shit electronically, save some damn time and trees.

>>31189958
Nah.

Hire more people, thats it. Solves the problem while keeping muh freedoms.

>>31189382
14158 haha

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>>31189948
>guns used in crime
>bought legally

>>31187984
>he talks to me like this is basic stuff
Because it is. Fucking liberals.

>>31190098
Im not sure if your serious or not...

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>>31187759
Well, you got the adress, and you know that most of the files are just kept in cardboard boxes. It wouldn't take a lot to do everybody a favor.

>Ave nex alea

>>31187982
>He's a big guy

Oh you

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>>31190132
please tell me how identifying the original owner of a jennings bryco sold in 1993 will solve a crime committed by it's 37th owner

or how confirming "yep this dead guy bought the shotgun he blew his own head off with" fucking matters in the slightest.

or how it matters that the muzzies in san bernadino were the original purchasers of the non california compliant rifles they used to kill their co workers

Or how often someone goes full Hitman; the videogame and pops someone with the gun they themselves bought with a 4473 before dropping it next to the body and running away to their listed address

>>31190132
most guns used in crimes were either stolen or straw purchased.

>>31190156
In terms of the san bbernadino case, it matters because they have to investigate if someone supplied the gun to see if their was a criminal conspiracy. Like someone buying guns for someone and encouraging them to commit crimes.

>>31190164
>Like someone buying guns for someone and encouraging them to commit crimes.
the only people who do that are the ATF, FBI, and CIA

>no one is committing terrorism so let's convince people to be terrorists so we can foil terrorism!
>government boondoggle u r of genius!

>>31187437
>Crossdraw

Smooth....

>>31190156
So all gun crime is your cherry picked senarios and his job has never been used to solve crimes.

>>31189382
You do know that they have import or registration markings nowadays, right? Besides, that's a number in south asian runes, so it has already one.

>>31190172
>terror cells dont exist

https://youtu.be/dNYf894ZM8U

>>31190172
It's still in court, but here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_San_Bernardino_attack#Enrique_Marquez_Jr.

It certainly happens and may warrant investigation. I do think it's a waste of resources to investigate where the gun came from in every suicide and gang shooting.

>>31190156
Better to know a lead is a dead end within hours than days. Especially in a case type where they tend to never get solved if not within the first forty eight hours. You know, murder.

>>31189588
It's the correct number, suicides by gun still count as deaths by gunfire.

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>The cops run a trace on a gun? What does that even mean? A name pops up? From where? There's some master list somewhere? Like, for all the guns all over the world, there's a master list that started with the No. 1 (when? World War I? Civil War? Russian Revolution? when?), and in the year 2016 we are now up to No. 14 gazillion whatever, and every single one of those serial numbers has a gun owner's name attached to it on some giant list somewhere (where?), which, thank God, a big computer is keeping track of?

Even if there was, in theory, a giant computer array keeping records - so the fuck what?

Most murders where a gun is left in or around the scene are not typically committed by people who bought the fucking gun.

Stupid fucking liberal trash

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>>31190177
name a single scenario where knowing the initial purchaser of a firearm 1-5 days after a firearm crime where they miraculously recover the gun but not the man holding it would have any effect on a case besides potentially returning a stolen gun to it's actual owner. which is achieved by cross referenceable stolen firearm databases, not the ATF and their maersk sealand crates full of waterdamaged/paperworm'd 4473's from defunct gun shops.

>>31190194
>if it can solve one crime ;_;

the idea that someone will escape a murder/robbery scene but leave their fucking gun is so ludicrously stupid you should feel physical manifestations of shame for entertaining it.

in la la libcuck land
>fucking white male buys gun
>shoots disadvantaged urban youth
>drops gun and runs away
>shitlord racist police find gun
>tell serial to the amazing competent ATF
>ATF despite the FUCKING GUN LOBBY NRA REEEEE finds the paperwork to the gun and identify the owner
>owner is the killer
>owner still lives at address and surrenders to police

real world
>tyrone buys bryco .380 from jamal
>jamal was the guns 7th owner in 6 months
>tyrone takes care of some guys up to no good, causing trouble in the neighborhood
>popo shows up miraculously in seconds instead of hours, or not responding at all, as is common in inner city neighborhoods
>tyrone tosses his drop gun into storm drain
>popo call batman
>batman finds the bryco amongst the other 6 guns in the storm drain
>calls up Mr. ATF man to find Tyrone
>mr. ATF man goes through soggy 4473s in a steel shipping crate from a new jersey pawn shop thats been closed for 25 years
>original owner has been dead for 24 years
>49th hour passes and inner city gun crime that was a carbon copy of statistically every fucking gun crime in the US goes unsolved.

>>31190230
>name a single scenario where knowing the initial purchaser of a firearm 1-5 days after a firearm crime where they miraculously recover the gun but not the man holding it

Litterally san berdinto.

Kill yourself.

What if the ATF gets access to a searchable database but ... the NRA manages it and controls access. The only API call provided is get4473($MODEL, $SERIAL)

>>31190241
knowing that the two fucking dead people swat had just splattered over the inside of their SUV holding the guns were the initial purchasers of the guns didn't "crack the case" of the fucking san bernadino shooting

are you "literally" retarded?

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>>31190241
>The gunfire lasted for around five minutes before both perpetrators were killed.

>>31190251
>>31190256
>DUDE LOL THEY KILLED THEM THATS ALL FOLKS LOL XD

They found an accomplice, fucktards.

>>31190230
And. With a more efficient tracing system, the police can know to give up on tracing the gun sooner and try a different lead sooner than in the current case, where if it's not something that makes the news, it can take a goddamned week.

>>31190270
>muh conspiracy theories!
they

bought

the

guns

any "terror cell" or "other muslim faggots who shouldn't be here tertiarily related to the investigation the fbi had on this muzzie fuck" has nothing to do with the ATF, 4473's, or confirming that the guns were owned and purchased by "allah and the akbars" and not the CIA or some shit.

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>>31190276
>still pretending that criminals drop their guns by their victims to give the popo a lead
>still pretending if they have a suspect with a gun and a dead guy that finding out whether he bought the gun legally fucking matters
>still plugging your ears at the fact that the ATF keeping 4473s and the system of backtracking 4473s is a fucking boondoggle that hasn't solved any crimes.

Fuck the NRA, seriously fuck them. They are the reason why I'm fucking creeped out by most of the guys at my local firing range. I have heard dudes talking about how they "Can't wait to shoot some niggers" and they can't wait for a civil war to slaughter their fellow americans. I've seen people putting up pictures of the president and other liberal politicians as targets and I'm left wondering how the fuck we've gotten to this point. How the fuck is it that any sort of political difference is grounds for plotting assasination and that shit is seen as normal?

>>31190296
thanks for correcting the record™

>>31190270
>Enrique Marquez Jr.,[141] a next-door neighbor of Farook's until May 2015,[142] and who is related to him by marriage, was investigated in connection with his purchase of the two rifles used in the attack
>next-door neighbor

Yeah I'm sure the records of the purchase were vital, but wait there's more

>On December 17, 2015, Marquez was arrested and charged in the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California with three federal criminal counts: conspiracy to provide material support for terrorism (i.e., himself, a firearm, and explosives);

Did they have a record for the explosives purchase too? Fucking mongoloid

>>31190280
Yes, they bought a gun from another muslim with the express purpose to use it in crime. Thats a felony.

>muh terror cells are a conspiracy

Kill yourself

>>31190295
He's right, finding a murder weapon at a crime scene is very rare. It does happen of course, but not very often.

>>31190230
>name a single scenario where knowing the initial purchaser of a firearm 1-5 days after a firearm crime where they miraculously recover the gun but not the man holding it would have any effect on a case besides potentially returning a stolen gun to it's actual owner.

>Urrutia tells me about a 96-year-old guy who got robbed and beaten nearly to death in his own home; the gun trace that Urrutia did on the stolen gun is what broke the case and how they caught the assailant.

>>31190310
Finding a murder weapon at the scene is rare
finding one registered to the person who actually did the murder is a touch rarer.

>>31190313
>the gun trace that Urrutia did on the stolen gun is what broke the case and how they caught the assailant.

They had to solve the theft case before they solved that one. Do you have several brain cells or is it just the one?

>>31190314
Indeed it is. That being said, finding who the gun was originally registered to could prove useful but checking out who a gun is registered to is often a waste of time. Not always, but most of the time.

>>31190308
>with the express purpose to use it in crime
because this has anything to do with the ATF keeping 4473s
>from another muzzie
das racis
>it's a felony to buy guns to commit crimes with them
>ignore those murders tho, this is the real crime!
wew

they

bought

the

guns

legally

knowing that fact had no part in swat killing the shit out of them, then cataloging thier firearms into evidence to confirm they did in fact buy the firearms they used to murder people with.

>>31190313
just like that microfiche lady spent hours looking through records to find the owner of those guns... oh wait, adam lanza's mother bought guns from a currently running big box store that was identified not through her fucking microfiche.

these ATF faggots are lying through thier teeth to convince themselves and this "reported" they aren't part of a "brazil" tier useless bureaucratic system of no merit.

>>31189604
Based gunshop owner

>>31190331
>finding who the gun was originally registered to could prove useful
how in the flying fuck would that be useful

>hello sir the gun you owned 15 years ago was recovered miraculously at a crime scene when the perp decided to gently lay it down next to the guy he shot for the police to find, do you happen to know who you sold it to/stole it from you and the 15 other people it's changed hands between?

>registered
>registry
mc fucking kill yourself m8

>>31190180
I went the the store and the guy filling out the paperwork filled in on the paper under serial # NA

>>31190332
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-bernardino-marquez-20151217-story.html

The government is alleging that they conspired to commit the shooting. And they're also charging the guy with a straw purchase.

>>31190332
>because this has anything to do with the ATF keeping 4473s

It does if you want to prove that specifc gun transferred both partys.

>muh crime is the only crime that matters.

Wew laddy

>>31190343
>straw purchase
>legal purchase from a private individual who was a family member
>neither of the people involved were prohibited persons (until they killed those people and died in a shootout with cops on a freeway.. if they were convicted of their multiple felonies)
you're reaching pretty far our statist friend.

>>31190340
>how in the flying fuck would that be useful
Perhaps if the original owner had sold it to someone who is a suspect. Again, unlikely, but not impossible.

>>31190360
Not family members, neighbors. And they're alleging he bought the rifle specifically to give to the guy who committed the attack. Which is illegal.

This guy also had terrorist leanings and discussed attacks with the shooter so it's good they caught and charged him.

>>31190359
>It does if you want to prove that specifc gun transferred both partys.
do you want to rephrase this into an understandable sentence?

>hey now just because the system doesn't actually help, let alone solve, any crime investigations doesn't mean...

>>31190364
so
A. if a gun is left on the scene, which never happens
B. that gun is not stolen
C. that gun was bought from a defunct gun shop
D. that the original owner is identified from the ~65% of records the ATF hasn't lost through incompetence
E. that original owner kept a bill of sale
F. that individual who purchased the firearm also kept a bill of sale, etc. etc. down the pipe of sales,trades,and thefts to lead it to be in the hands of some gangbanger

then this system is anything but a vestigial holdout from a great society era effort to create a gun registry.

>>31190376
You do if you want to know that THAT specific gun was in the sellers hands, then the buyers hands.

Otherwise defense can go LOL NOT MY GUN.

>>31188680
kek

>>31190376
Are you seriously implying that only gangbangers commit murder? And guns have been left at crime scenes before, like in cases where someone wanted the murder to look like a suicide or the shooter panicked like a bitch and hid the gun a short distance from the body.
>>31190386
Well, only rarely do circumstances line up in just the right way that seeing who bought a gun is any help to the investigation or the prosecutor's case in court.

>>31190386
>it ain't muh gun... found in my waistband 3 blocks from a murder of an acquaintance I publicly had a problem with

by that logic you could never prove a firearm was stolen by an individual because there was no record of direct ownership.

>>31190394
courtney love is still walking around but the 28" barrel hunting shotgun kurt cobain totally used to shoot himself while wearing shoes and high as fuck on 4x the average death limit of heroin was left at the scene ;^)

Incredible, who would have fucking thought that a TAX agency would have nothing to fucking do with stopping crime.

Seeing as how the fucking NICS system is FBI, that would make sense.

Oh and $10 the "loading dock" is full of fucking Form Requests for NFA items that the ATF chooses to do by hand because they're fucking Marxist retards.

>>31190402
>courtney love is still walking around but the 28" barrel hunting shotgun kurt cobain totally used to shoot himself while wearing shoes and high as fuck on 4x the average death limit of heroin was left at the scene ;^)
What the FUCK does any of that have to with what I posted?

>>31190394
>rarely

Litterally every straw purchase.

>>31190421
Oh, so straw purchases are a common occurrence?

Hell, even if they are, that's still difficult to prove except in cases like the San Bernardino shooting.

>>31190402
>by that logic you could never prove a firearm was stolen by an individual because there was no record of direct ownership.

Unless you can link the two partys.

>>31187462
>There is no national database of guns
No shit. Fuck the ATF.

>>31190413
the assertion that in the near nonexistant case that a gun is found at a murder scene that the literal fucking drop gun will be in any way attached 4473/bill of sale wise to the criminal is spitting in the face of common sense

>but what if a wife shot her husband and then hid the gun in a potted plant and claimed a burglar did it!
>knowing that the firearm was purchased by him/her is totes super important to this case!
>because it matters... right?!
>because it happens outside of my stories... right?

>>31190431
For gangs and other fuckery?

Yes, all the fucking time. "Baby mamas" seem to always get guns for their felonious faggots.

>>31190447
See above.

>>31190447
>the assertion that in the near nonexistant case that a gun is found at a murder scene that the literal fucking drop gun will be in any way attached 4473/bill of sale wise to the criminal is spitting in the face of common sense
Link to a post where I asserted this.

As for your greentext, if the gun was bought by the husband, but the wife had access to it, she's a suspect who will be investigated. If the gun was bought by the wife herself, that makes her a suspect, and she will be investigated. Additionally, if the wife says it was a robbery but the crime scene appears staged or nothing valuable is missing, that makes her an even bigger suspect.
>>31190471
But outside of the context of gang violence or hood bullshit, are they a common occurence?

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>>31187437
wtf, now #ImWithHer

>>31190481
outside the context of gang violence or hood bullshit, firearm crime isn't a common occurrence.

the other firearm crime usually follows the "familicide then suicide" pattern, where identifying that the gun in the hand of the dead guy who looks like he shot his wife and children was purchased by him really, really doesn't fucking matter.

>>31190481
>But outside of when it happens, does it happen?

>>31190481
>but outside of 99% of guncrime, are they a common occurrence?

Nigga...

>>31190493
>>31190495
Alright, I'll admit you've got me here, that was a stupid question.

>>31187844
>politicians with no knowledge of the reality
He's a dem what do you expect?

>>31189589
Tonight, on this week's episode of "Shit That Never Happened"

Wtf art niggers are too stupid to use file cabinets with ordered numbers on the front? They had physical databases before computers you know

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>>31187982
>>31187982
>I sit with an ATF specialist named Daniel Urrutia. He's a big guy
4U

>>31189923
>The proposal as written would be impossible without a constitutional amendment

>The Current Year
>still believing law makers give two shits about the constitution

>>31187437
But can't they really?

I didn't bother to look at the 1986 bullshit, but it seems to me they don't want a database searchable by your average BLM-lefty gun-grabbers. The ATF might have a centralized, air-gapped database in a safe location from which you'd have to extract data manuallx.

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>>31191287
Yes, anon, that is exactly what the entire article is about. Good job cracking case. You're a bigger hero than the microfiche readers at the ATF

>>31190180
the ATF doesn't allow non alphanumeric symbols
cyrillic characters, asian characters, etc are not valid serials
that's why Nagant revolvers have a second new serial stamped on them by the importer

>>31190296
Because treason is a death penalty. You can't keep voting the government to rob people and expect because the majority is okay with it, that the ones who are not okay with being robbed against the very fucking foundation of this nation to accept it.

We all agreed in this thread you should kill yourself. We voted on it so now it's law. Do you see just how feeble your stance is?

>>31187437
ATFs way of crying and fear mongering to the public I mean the majority of guns that are tracked are for the law abiding citizens fucken Jamal and Tyrones gats aren't ever going to be in the system otherwise Gun Control would be working...

>>31187437
I'm glad.

>>31189514
Yes, the sight ramp was ground down when the caliber was changed from 8x50 to 8x52.

>>31187437
OK. And then, what do they actually DO with this serial number? Aside from tracing stolen guns, knowing a weapon's serial number tells you what exactly?

Unrecorded private transactions somewhere in a weapon's history can easily scramble up the trail of acquisition.

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>>31187437

speaking of atf, this guys been inactive for months now, is he kill?

>>31190177

Yes you dumb fuck, pretty much all violent crime involving guns isn't done by the original owner. Maybe read a book instead of making shit up as you go.

>>31187840
>There is no other place in America where technological advances are against the law.
It's not like there's various policing agencies including the FBI that make using electronic equipment for certain tasks 100% illegal per policy. That way they can just write down whatever the fuck they like and be impossible to challenge.

>>31187721
>gun was stolen
>owner didn't know
>owner goes down for homicide
Yeah, this system is pretty retarded

>>31190296
Don't pretend this is an NRA-specific problem. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people propose that we should round up all NRA members/Republicans and execute them. I'm on my phone right now or i'd post some examples.

>>31188178
You sound like you'd fit right in.

>>31192542
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyulytSaZqY&index=1&list=PL0979520796B02D2C

not quite

>>31193009

ooooo his firearms license or whathaveyou got suspended?

>>31190296
>How the fuck is it that any sort of political difference
>any sort of political difference
>any sort
>implying there aren't a metric fuck ton of specific reasons to hate the current (or previous) administrations

>>31189924
(((Media))) stopped showing handguns in the 90s to get the plebes used to a world without them, except in the hands of cops and criminals.

>>31190394
Gangbangers and hajjis are 90% of the murders in this country so yeah pretty much.

>>31187840
>There is no other place in America where technological advances are against the law.

Encryption was ITAR controlled. Still is to a degree. FBI is crying about not being able to peek at your secure http. So stand by. This is the police state your forefather warned you about.

>>31187818
>He signed a memorandum demanding that all firearms recovered in the course of criminal investigations be traced.

So now what does the paperwork backlog look like? If you've got a dead perp with a gun, but he doesn't have a legal reason not to posess one, what good does it do to find out where it came from? Restrict searches to cases where he shouldn't have had one.

No, wait. Scratch that. Bury the ATF in useless search requests. LOL.

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>>31187437
MFW West Virginia is suddenly infested by paper-eating insects.

>>31194330
>walk by this building
>oh shit I just dropped my molotovs inside the open window

This reminds me of a story my LGS told me a few years ago.

>local shooting (about 20 minutes from his store)
>semi-auto AK type rifle was used in a killing behind a wal-mart
>cops were literally going to store to store in the local area trying to figure out if it was sold locally

So from what I gathered, it was easier for cops to drive around to every gun store in a 30-45 minute radius than to deal with the ATF on tracing this particular rifle.

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>>31190296
>Fuck the NRA, seriously fuck them. They are the reason why I'm fucking creeped out by most of the guys at my local firing range. I have heard dudes talking about how they "Can't wait to shoot some niggers" and they can't wait for a civil war to slaughter their fellow americans. I've seen people putting up pictures of the president and other liberal politicians as targets and I'm left wondering how the fuck we've gotten to this point.
A decade's worth and more of psychotic bullshit from the far left.

>Ten years ago, any gun related story in mainstream media, comments section
>Liberal: SHOOT THE FUCKING NRA CHILD MURDERING RACIST HOMOPHOBE MOTHERFUCKERS
>Conservative: we think you're dumb, you think we're evil, we get it already, LOL you're silly

>Modern day
>Liberal: SHOOT THE FUCKING NRA CHILD MURDERING RACIST HOMOPHOBE MOTHERFUCKERS
>Conservative: Fine, motherfucker. Bring it on. I just hope we have enough rope and lampposts for all of you

Sooner or later, there was going to be a reaction. Sooner or later, it will go beyond words.

>>31194730
Probably because those gun stores used computers.

Or didn't have 300 Million serial numbers to parse through.

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>>31195059
Okay, smart guy, tell us how 'using computers' enables a fun store to look up every form 4473 on the premises. Then tell us why this is desirable, especially when half the country wants you dead over an inanimate object. Or just wants you dead, period, and chooses The War On Guns as a suitable casus belli.

>>31189948
>forgetting it's faster to contact the manufacturer and do your own damn trace, which is easy as fuck to do

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>millions of boxes containing billions of pages of paper
>all piled up in one building

I'm not suggesting someone does this if Shillary wins, but in Colombia Pablo Escobar had some communist rebel group attack and burn down the Palace of Justice which contained every file and case document the government had against his cartel. After that they couldn't charge him with anything.

The point being, it would be awfully hard for mass confiscations to occur if billions of pages of ATF gun sale documentation were suddenly to disappear in a fire.

>>31187437
How IN THE FUCK did the trace John Hinckley Jr's pistol in 16 minutes then?

>>31191174
They don't give two shits about the constitution. But people do give a shit about their ideologies. And liberals would be challenging this in court very quickly just because they don't like it. And their challenge would work since it wouldn't be constitutional.

>>31195283
Sauce on that. That's not possible, pre-Internet.

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>>31187491
>they recently got the go-ahead to convert the microfilm to PDFs
Imply PDFs aren't easily made text searchable?

We gun registry now, boys.

>>31188835
Texas state police already registers the finger prints of every person applying for a license or ID

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You fuckers better be members

>>31195367
they have been OCRing 4473's and bound books for nearly a decade now.

>>31195319
http://www.nytimes.com/1981/04/01/us/guns-traced-in-16-minutes-to-pawn-shop-in-dallas.html

>It was a ''fast trace,'' in the words of a spokesman for the agency, an arm of the Treasury Department, which got the serial number from agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. However, similar cases are routinely handled within a few hours.

>>31195482
I stand corrected.

>>31195493
Never underestimate the feds.

>>31189923
>The proposal as written would be impossible without a constitutional amendment. The federal government does not have the right to preempt state permits and gun control legislation in such a manner.

Yes they do, see 18 U.S.C. 926A which exempts interstate travelers from State Gun Laws they are not visiting.

>>31195545
Did you even read the rest of my post? Yes, that's exactly why I said they would definitely be able to force permit reciprocity. And probably able to force allowing ownership of weapons sold in other states.

But they would be unable to force states to have the same regulations around their gun-free zones. Since gun-free zones are not a matter of interstate commerce as decided in US v. Lopez.

And the amended version of Lopez is almost certainly still unconstitutional (http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1097&context=dlj), so they couldn't force states to allow people to carry within schools even if they specified the gun to be carried must have "moved in interstate commerce." It's not enough. That would be like saying the federal government can have jurisdiction over every murder case if the murder weapon had "moved in interstate commerce."

>>31195606
Federal Courts have ruled that 18 U.S.C. 926B overrides State Assault Weapons Bans under the LEOSA.

>>31195775
Also our favorite wife-murderer also went the extra mile and proved Police Officers are exempt from the NFA too

>>31195091
Because they can look up the bill of sale rather than the 4473 if it is saved in a computer

The 4473s are also chronologically ordered (or supposed to be by law) so if they knew when the sale took place, they could more easily track it down in record.

>>31195447
MEMBERSHIP, fuckers

>>31195775
Of course it does, for the purpose of transporting unloaded weapons through a state. The federal government could probably even override ownership bans by allowing weapons legally purchased in any state to be owned in any other state.

But they would be unable to override a state from instituting gun free zones.

>>31195924
Oops, sorry. Not just for transporting unloaded weapons but also for the LEOSA. I was still thinking of 18 U.S.C. 926A. But all of these are for legitimate interstate commerce purposes, none of them have anything to do with allowing gun-free zones.

>>31195971
Sorry for splitting up my posts, but the LEOSA explicitly says that it does not preempt gun-free zones.

>This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that--
>(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or
>(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.

>>31195995
Because that's an exemption congress wrote into it themselves.

Regardless it allows even reserve police officers to carry in Washington DC, New York City, New Jersey and Hawaii where carry is basically outright prohibited

>>31196344
Yes, but none of that has anything to do with gun free zones. And the precedent of US. v Lopez implies that Congress does not have the authority to regulate state gun free zones.

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>>31195447
>>31195918

>>31187541
>government confiscation is just a conservative paranoid conspiracy theory!
>but we need to ban assault weapons!

Mental gymnastics on this scale is legitimately scary.

>>31196460
Once more with feeling:

Source: FBI.gov
Expanded Homicide Data Table 11
Murder Circumstances by Weapon, 2011
Total: 12,664
Total firearms: 8583
Handguns: 6220
Rifles: 323
Shotguns: 356
Knives or cutting instruments: 1694
Personal weapons (hands/feet): 726
There is no statistical menace from 'assault rifles.' We probably lose more people to bee stings.

You would think just one maverick politician or reporter would spend two minutes and bring these statistics up and foment a bit of debate, if only for the free advertising. You would think that a substantial portion of social media savvy Americans would have the initiative and inclination to do so for themselves. 'This is the Internet. We fact-check your ass.' But no. None of the above.

If you doubted that the anti-gunners in government and the media are malicious -- not well-meaning clueless boobs, but very nasty people indeed -- and a majority of our population is stuck on stupid, take a good long look at that. Ponder it well.

Then order more ammo.

>>31189474
You can use EBT like a debit card in basically any supermarket, or any place that sells food.