F-35 BTFO: Can't Even Kill An F-4

Makes me sad to watch Phantoms get converted to drones and get kaboomed.

I'm happy this one survived.

>>31185695
I know that feel.

>>31185672

What fucking twisting of events.

The drones don't get "shot down". They act as a target, but the test records a success as a near pass, aimed deliberately off from it to ensure you can use the drone again in the future. Why in the fuck would you want to destroy it for no reason when you can still test the missile delivery perfectly fine but just cutting short the actual boom?

>>31185759

Tards think fighter drones are clay pigeons.

>>31185672
Consider the fact that the last time they did this they detonated the AIM-120s before they hit the target drone. With that in mind, the answer should seem pretty obvious.

File: kill me fam.jpg (62KB, 237x225px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 237x225px

>Uneducated OP: The thread.

>>31185672
Stupid OP. Drones are towed by other planes and hence ipso facto, a glider. Any aviation enthusiast knows gliders beat jets in any turning fights. Duh.

File: f-35 bingo start.jpg (667KB, 1430x1352px) Image search: [Google]

667KB, 1430x1352px

>>31185672

how many Aim-120 can f-35 carry internally

File: 1420329831830.gif (80KB, 250x174px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 250x174px

OP got BTFO pretty quick

>>31186113
>implying the F-35 can down a Stuka dive bomber.

For real though, I mean for real. No joking. I'm not trying to troll. Pls respond.

What possible benefits will come of this project in a practical warfare situation? I mean, they are not easy to make, they are expensive and their munitions even more so. How does the F-35 not make war more difficult? I know it's an advanced aircraft, but please tell me how it's not a white elephant and more of a liability and defense industry corruption scandal that gets a free pass.

>>31187175
>What possible benefits will come of this project in a practical warfare situation?
A fucking zerg rush of stealth multiroles that can link their targeting systems to B-1B arsenal ships full of AGMs and cruise missiles isn't of immediate, obvious value?

>>31186090
This is sarcasm, right?

>>31187096
Four at the moment. Plans for 6. New missile in the works that is even smaller, so you can fit more.

>>31187175

>How does the F-35 not make war more difficult?

It makes war a fuckload more difficult, if you're on the other side. It's like a mini-F-22. Before if you were trying to fight the US, you only had to worry about a handful of stealth aircraft. Now you have to worry about hundreds. Fucking maddening from a planning perspective.

>>31187175
To put it in the most blunt manner possible, it's heads and tails above everything else. Imagine if you will a game of football where all the players have firearms with flashlights on them and it's pitch black out. This is what normal air warfare is like at the moment. The flashlight is your radar. When you have it on, you can see what you're pointing it at, but they can also see you, the source of the light.

Now lets give one side NVGs that don't get blinded by flashlights and the other side gets REALLY shitty flashlights that don't let them see five feet in front of their face. This is what fighting the F-35 is like. You can't see him until you're at point blank range, and he can shoot you whenever.

Further, you can't really stop the F-35-offense at all. They will get around your defenders and score, even without having to shoot any of you, by finding the gaps in your defense and sliding right through them. It's fucking mental.

>>31187500
It basically makes land war impossible within the strike range of American airpower.
>oops there go your aircraft
>oops there goes your AA
>oops there goes your armor
>oops there goes your supply line
The reason the vatniks and fiddys are shilling so hard for the death of the F-35 is that they've got fucking NOTHING to counter a swarm of stealthy fifth gens and they know it.

>>31187500
>Now you have to worry about hundreds.
Thousands.

File: k_img000001.png (454KB, 900x2462px) Image search: [Google]

454KB, 900x2462px

>>31185672
Dem drone conversions, huh?

>>31188826
Most of these are pretty crap, but that one got an out loud kek out of me. Preddy gud.

>>31187572
Thats... a really good but simple analogue for the problem. Cheers.

>>31188826
10/10

>>31188853
I can't claim the credit for it, I took it from someone else, but I can't remember who.

If I had to guess it'd be from a stellar blog: http://elementsofpower.blogspot.com/ . The writer is a former USAF SNCO involved with missiles and missile testing, and he is a project manager on SOMETHING today. He doesn't say what. If nothing else, take a look at his articles on the CUDA missiles that Lockheed showed off.

File: k_img000003.png (598KB, 800x2263px) Image search: [Google]

598KB, 800x2263px

Off topic, does anyone have the webm of the russian mig shooting at a georgian drone as filmed by the drone?

>>31188220
This

The U.S. Air Force alone is planning on operating 1,300ish of the planned 2,400 F-35s that are to be made

They're going to be the backbone of NATO/close U.S. allies.

Which is fucking nightmare fuel for any country that is not on good relations the U.S.

File: Drone Kill.webm (2MB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 640x480px

>>31188980

>>31188995

It really is. Before you could at least count on long-range SAM's to get you a few easy kills here and there. Now that stealth aircraft will make up the majority of the attackers there are no easy kills. You have to work hard for every single shoot-down.

>>31188996
Cheers.

>>31189052
The way it lookes down just in time to follow the missile at the end...spooky shit, man

>>31188995
USAF: 1763 F-35A
USN: 480 C
USMC: 340 B, 80 C
US Total: 2663

Foreign:
A: Up to 511
B: 168
Total: 679

Grand total: 3342

>>31189021
Imagine the first trololololo kill working with arsenal jets.
>F-35 with all its missiles fired enters vusual range for some reason
>Ivan/Hajji/Chink pursues
>B-1B or Dakka Eagle loaded to the gills with AMRAAMs receives a target lock
>Ivan/Hajji/Chink gets blown out of the sky by an AMRAAM approaching from a completely different vector
>F-35 broadcasts "meep meep" on an open channel and supercruises away

>>31188967
>http://elementsofpower.blogspot.com/
Cheers mate. Checking it out now.

File: 1425191578638.jpg (931KB, 3000x1954px) Image search: [Google]

931KB, 3000x1954px

>>31189084
I was trying to be conservative with my numbers... But Jesus Christ


I've said it before and I'll say it again..

WEST SIDE WORLD WIDE. YOU FUCKING COMMIES

File: k_img000002.png (397KB, 900x2462px) Image search: [Google]

397KB, 900x2462px

>>31189083
Yeah, poor drone.

>>31189108
They plan to rig up the B-1B to haul 144 SBDs eventually. Just imagine F-35s getting that target set tagged out to go full Itano Circus.

>>31189145
I hope they can tell the FAC to start blasting Ride of the Valkyries from his tank when that happens.

File: Wile E. Coyote.jpg (48KB, 480x349px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 480x349px

>>31189108
>>F-35 broadcasts "meep meep" on an open channel and supercruises away
My fucking sides.

>>31189108
Funny, I always saw LockMart as the ACME of the fighter world.

>>31189145
and the B-21 soon(I hope)

>>31189274
>B-21
>soon
Oh my sweet summer child.

File: B-2-1024x731.jpg (86KB, 1024x731px) Image search: [Google]

86KB, 1024x731px

>>31189291
I said I hope :(

>>31189145
>144 SDBs

Are we talking the SDB I or SDB II, because a B-1B sling 144 laser-guided bombs from 60 nmi is almost as crazy as them carrying 24 LRASMs.

>>31189361
SDB II is even smaller and lighter than SDB I, so I can't imagine they wouldn't be able to carry the IIs if they can carry the Is. If they only get integrated for the IIs, all the better.

>>31189361
I think either. -I is GPS/Inertial guided, so all it needs are coordinates to hit, so they could, in theory, feed as many target points as the B-1 is capable of coding simultaneously and ripple release. -II is more for moving targets, since once it has an initial target zone it gets into scanning range and the two-way link allows the controlling station to verify and the bombs to coordinate targets, and you can wipe out a convoy with a cluster release.

>>31189400
I can see a hurdle with lasing 144 targets at once though. Or are the II's dual-mode?

>>31189400
>If they only get integrated for the IIs, all the better.
Not really, -II is both way more expensive and more specialized for moving ground targets.

>>31189415
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyaIrhGrCzo
Fully self-contained targeting sensor with 2-way link.

>>31189108
>Dakka Eagle
tell me more anon

File: f18_macross_special.jpg (84KB, 713x561px) Image search: [Google]

84KB, 713x561px

>>31189433
It's like the Hornet's Macross Special, but with added AMRAAMs.

>>31189433
F-15Cs are getting upgraded to SIXTEEN AMRAAMs.

>>31189433
F-35 will carry 8 in full stealth and 24 in full loadout.
Strike Eagle currently can haul 20, and they're working on four more load hardpoints for 36.

>>31189424
Its ok, i needed the erection anyways....

>>31189458
>>31189450
>>31189446
The real question is, who gets credit for the kill?

Aces might become a thing of the past...

>>31189509
Nothing lasts forever.

File: f18_2.jpg (80KB, 1051x1500px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 1051x1500px

Somebody post the strike eagle with the AMRAAM spam loadout.

File: F 15 2040.png (1MB, 1910x1078px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1910x1078px

>>31189433
Man the new Eagle upgrade package is looking mighty fine.

>>31185759
>test missile delivery
>without delivering missile
Your excuses are boundless. The cost of a Phantom unit is slightly above $2 million. The cost of two 120D's is higher than that, but let's assume those were 120C's. The cost of an entire JSF program is well beyond $1,5 trillion and counting. What you're claiming is that USAF has literally wasted both missiles for the same tracking test without making sure either can hit unmanned, decrepit vietnam era jet. The more likely reason was an air-to-air targeting glitch plaguing helmet's software since last spring.

File: Benefits of Full Rate Production.jpg (42KB, 836x628px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 836x628px

>>31190983
First off
>not counting for inflation
A more reasonable number would be $18 million.

Third, the newest models of F-16s and F/A-18E/Fs cost only slightly less than the F-35 currently does, and unit costs haven't even reached the bottom yet.

And as for the missiles not hitting their target, something similar to this happened not even a month ago. You know what happened? They blew up the missiles before they hit the target because they already knew they would hit. You see, terminal guidance is not provided by the F-35. It is provided by the active radar in the seeker head of the missile itself. It is known that seeker head works very well. With that being the case, why would you waste a perfectly good drone once it's clear that the missile has gone pitbull and is going to intercept?

>>31190983
Oh, anon is using the $1.5 trillion has already been spent lie.

>>31190983
And you know aaalll about that helmet mounted sight and its software don't you, Mr. I Read The Aviationist That One Time and Now I'm Right Clever Innit

File: F-35 a best plane.jpg (824KB, 1200x960px) Image search: [Google]

824KB, 1200x960px

>>31188995
>2025
>conventional WWIII breaks out between US and Russia
>swarm of US and NATO F-35s blots out the sky over Germany
>reach Russia in a few hours
>Every military base, factory, and fuel depot east of the Urals gets levelled
>Russian IADS gets fucked in a day by mass of LGBs
>gunpod equipped F-35s brrrrrt all over Russian forces in Baltics while AH-64Ds shit Brimstones on T-90s
>Curtis LeMay's skeleton sheds a single tear as B-2s swarm over Moscow
>F-35s and F-22s btfo slavshit with AIM-120D
>Typhoons and Gripens take out anything left with Meteors
>Admiral Kutzenov sunk by an Astute-class after 3 minutes
>Russian motor rifle batallion repelled just outside of Kaliningrad by angry old Polish man with toilet plunger shouting 'O Ja pierdole'
>B-52 drops flock of eagles over Moscow's ruins
>Vatniks worldwide on suicide watch
>Pierre Sprey on suicide watch

>>31191966
IDK man ive some some eastern front ww2 shit. The russians will chuck millions of peple to die just for moscow.

>>31191966
>Russian motor rifle batallion repelled just outside of Kaliningrad by angry old Polish man with toilet plunger shouting 'O Ja pierdole'
lol

>>31185672

How many F-4s would it take to overwhelm an F-35, and would their combined cost beat it from an economic standpoint?

>>31192325
They couldn't. The F-35 is so far ahead of it that the F-4s have zero control over the battlespace.

>>31190400
Someone has to the job while $200mln hangar queen waits decomissioning. People in Pentagon are just not suicidal enough to believe F-35 can hope to survive in contested environment.

>>31192325

Apparently just one since the F-35 can't hit it and the F-4 outruns and outguns the F-35.

This was done before, F-4 ICE or MIG-21 BIS outrun, outgun, out-turn, and out-detect an F-35 every time.

>>31193227
>Apparently just one since the F-35 can't hit it and the F-4 outruns and outguns the F-35.
If the F-4 cannot detect, target or effectively engage the F-35, the F-35 effectively completely controls the terms of engagement. This means that no conceivable force of F-4s can gain air superiority over an F-35 force even 1/10th its size. The F-35 has the option to effectively completely refuse engagement, engage only from terms that leave the F-4s at overwhelming tactical disadvantage (never see them coming before you start dropping out of the sky) or engage the F-4s from well beyond their ability to return fire.

There is no conceivable way for an F-4 to gain systematic and overall advantage over an F-35. Could it happen in some circumstances? Absolutely. People fuck up every day, and sometimes poorly trained/distracted pilots/poor planning fuck you in the ass. Could it happen on a wide scale and consistent basis? Not a chance.

This is what being a sensor/shooter and busting R&D ass to keep a sensor advantage means in A2A combat.

>>31185672
>QF-4 survives

Not uncommon really. After missile shots, the leading cause of QF-4s going down is the wings snapping off from pulling evasive maneuvers that would otherwise kill a pilot.

>>31193333

Keep in mind that F-4 ICE relied on AWACS and can fire the longer-range AIM-120s (which don't fit in F-35 bays). F-35 also relies on AWACS unless it wants to broadcast to the entire world, negating its stealth.

But I guess since you got quads, I should admit I am trolling.

>>31193381
>the longer-range AIM-120s (which don't fit in F-35 bays)
AIM-120D fits in all three F-35 bays, even the F-35B. I don't know where you got this information.

>F-35 also relies on AWACS unless it wants to broadcast to the entire world,
If the opposition is radiating, the F-35 can see them long before they see it. If they are not the F-35 STILL has EOTS and EO-DAS, boasting the longest range passive 360 degree spherical detection ranges in the world. Either way, the F-35 still carries a heavy advantage in detection threshold.

>>31191966
>>Russian motor rifle batallion repelled just outside of Kaliningrad by angry old Polish man with toilet plunger shouting 'O Ja pierdole'
kek

>>31190400

SpAMRAAM

>>31193427

>AIM-120D fits in all three F-35 bays, even the F-35B. I don't know where you got this information.

>Procured by 37 countries including the U.S., the combat-proven AMRAAM has been integrated onto the F-16, F-15, F/A-18, F-22, Typhoon, Gripen, Tornado and Harrier. The AIM-120C5 and AIM-120C7 are fully integrated on the F-35 and support USMC's F-35B initial operational capability as the only air-to-air missile qualified on the F-35.

http://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/amraam/

I can't find anything stating that it does or does NOT carry the Ds. Note that the linked article does not list it with the other planes, but separately, with limited integration. Which leads me to believe that it DOES NOT HAVE THE D INSIDE IT.

But honestly, I can't find any information one way or the other, though I remember reading something about it (which doesn't count for shit).

>If the opposition is radiating, the F-35 can see them long before they see it. If they are not the F-35 STILL has EOTS and EO-DAS, boasting the longest range passive 360 degree spherical detection ranges in the world. Either way, the F-35 still carries a heavy advantage in detection threshold.

It's going to see the radiating AWACS, outside of its engagement range. The F-4 ICE won't be radiating but receiving targetting info from AWACS (that's actually how they were planned to work as defense "interceptors"). Note, we are back in the territory that started with me trolling, I am just talking now though.

File: 1470884805026.jpg (36KB, 400x460px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 400x460px

>>31191966
fucking kek

>>31193538
>I can't find anything stating that it does or does NOT carry the Ds. Note that the linked article does not list it with the other planes, but separately, with limited integration. Which leads me to believe that it DOES NOT HAVE THE D INSIDE IT.
That's because the AMRAAM AIM-120D is not yet fully integrated in the F-35 fleet or that site has not yet been fully updated, not that it doesn't fit. The AIM-120D is not substantially larger than the AIM-120C7.

The fact that the Aussie government is buying AIM-120Ds should be your tip off that it works with the F-35.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-120_AMRAAM
>The Royal Australian Air Force requested 450 AIM-120D missiles, which would make it the first foreign operator of the missile. The procurement, approved by the US Government in April 2016, will cost $1.1 billion and will be integrated for use on the F/A-18F Super Hornet, EA-18G Growler and the F-35 Lightning II aircraft.

>The F-4 ICE won't be radiating but receiving targetting info from AWACS
Right, as will the F-35 in any real situation. However, the F-35 still carries a detection threshold advantage even with E-3s on both sides plus the passive detection advantage. As I said, even with equal resources on both sides, I just can't see a situation where an F-4 gains a consistent detection/engagement profile over an F-35.

>>31193627

>The Royal Australian Air Force requested 450 AIM-120D missiles, which would make it the first foreign operator of the missile. The procurement, approved by the US Government in April 2016, will cost $1.1 billion and will be integrated for use on the F/A-18F Super Hornet, EA-18G Growler and the F-35 Lightning II aircraft.

Hey, thanks for the info, I appreciate it.

>Right, as will the F-35 in any real situation. However, the F-35 still carries a detection threshold advantage even with E-3s on both sides plus the passive detection advantage. As I said, even with equal resources on both sides, I just can't see a situation where an F-4 gains a consistent detection/engagement profile over an F-35.

I was just shitposting when I compared a 3rd gen to a 5th gen, I agree.

>>31191966
>>Russian motor rifle batallion repelled just outside of Kaliningrad by angry old Polish man with toilet plunger shouting 'O Ja pierdole'
this is canon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ln2I816VR4

>>31192004
That just means B-52s with napalm and cluster bombs get to play.

>>31185759
>aimed deliberately off
How on EARTH do you aim a radar guided missile "off" a target?? And feel free to employ all technicalities you may need to explain this.

>>31194078
You detonate the missile prematurely after confirming that its tracking/trajectory would result in a hit

>>31194078
I'm not even that anon, but if you think about it? It's pretty easy. All our shit these days is digital electronics. If they're just testing the systems and don't actually need to shoot the drone down, all they gotta do is just mess with the missile's programming somewhere. That's a lot easier than trying to get new drones to replace a bunch of destroyed QF-4s.

>>31185672
>we dont know anything but we definitely know that the F35 is bad

>>31187238
I don't even know anymore

>>31193227
>MIG-21 BIS
MiG-21bis
No space, lowercase and you managed to type MiG wrong.

>>31185672
>Update 1:
>The reason for the QF-4 not being shot down is probably that the test was not a test of the AIM-120 missile’s ability to hit a target (something that has been proved in the past) but on the F-35’s ability to track the target and guide the AMRAAM until this reached the kill envelope. Once the missile starts self-guiding to the drone the test is accomplished and there is no need to waste a costy unmanned aircraft: the AIM-120 is directed to self-destruct before impact.

lol
Shitters will jump the gun at any chance of blasting the F-35

>>31194234
You do realise, I hope, that there is a world of a difference between detonating the missile prematurely and aiming "off target".

>>31194237
>just mess with the missile's programming somewhere
And you know this is what they do?

I mean there are many things the could do but the emphasis is on *could*. AIM-120 is well established and they might as well deploy, say, a parachute once the last mid course update is sent and recover the missile since the rest is AIM-120 only functionality. It is still a question of could. We do not know that, so far, or do you have any more info?

>>31194501
>The reason for the QF-4 not being shot down is probably that the test was not a test of the AIM-120
>probably
So we still do not know. a second guess after a first guess proves exactly nothing.

>>31194580
>So we still do not know. a second guess after a first guess proves exactly nothing.

It proves that everyone getting riled up about nothing concrete should jkysmm

>>31185695
Truly sad.

Is it a pipe dream to think that they might ever just auction them to the public?

>>31194580
I don't, and honestly, I don't need to, even though I would find it really neat. In the end, saving taxpayer dollars by fiddling with the AIM-120 can be done any number of ways. Because of that? Debating that they don't mess with the AIM-120 so they can reuse a QF-4 is as stupid as saying the F-35 is garbage. Which is really, really, really stupid.

File: 1455017482129.png (170KB, 575x350px) Image search: [Google]

170KB, 575x350px

>>31192868
>$85m
>Far better chance of survival than an F-15

>>31193333
You do know that target drone fighters typically aren't actually shot down, right? They just get the missile to a "guaranteed kill" point and have it miss and self-destruct.

But then again, you haters love to ignore reality for your talking points.

>>31194849
>You do know that target drone fighters typically aren't actually shot down, right? They just get the missile to a "guaranteed kill" point and have it miss and self-destruct.
>But then again, you haters love to ignore reality for your talking points.
You're either responding to the wrong post or you didn't read the reply string at all.

I was musing on a hypothetical battlespace where F-4s and F-35s with identical external assets are pitted against each other, and noted that there was almost no way for the F-4 to come out on top.

For the record, Sprey can take demon cock up his self-aggrandizing asshole for all eternity if there is justice in hell.

>>31195206
>For the record, Sprey can take demon cock up his self-aggrandizing asshole for all eternity if there is justice in hell.
Heh, pure poetry

>>31195333
>Heh, pure poetry
Thank you. That was a best of breed solution selected from among:
>Cum-Spackled Asshole of Self Promotion +2 while wearing his Cheap Whore Kneepads of Political Expediency +1
>well-worn general issue: cock holster, purposes of: excrescence, accepting payment from betters
>self-aggrandizing asshole
The last just seemed to flow better and more simply.

We are a fully compliant management-optimized flow organization, after all.

>>31195467
>AD&D in-joke
>military manual jargon
>upscale cocktail party slur

Jesus anon. Who the fuck are you?

>>31197133
>Jesus anon. Who the fuck are you?
Sounds like he's an O-3 or higher who wears dress uniforms often (hence the cocktail parties) and plays AD&D off duty.

>>31197227
The Burger equivalent of Bob Howard from Stross' Laundry Series?

I want to drink good bourbon with this anon and listen to him talk about life, love and various types and flavors of shitheels.

>>31197133
kek

>>31197227
>Sounds like he's an O-3
Ok, that's a little too accurate to not be scary.

>>31197275
>Bob Howard from Stross' Laundry Series
HOW THE FUCK DID YOU KNOW I JUST GOT DONE READING THE MOST RECENT ONE?

Seriously weirded out right now.

>>31197298
>HOW THE FUCK DID YOU KNOW I JUST GOT DONE READING THE MOST RECENT ONE?
I think when you said >>31195467
>best of breed solution
and
>fully compliant management-optimized flow organization
it just reminded me of Stoss.

Or we've been destiny entangled. Is that your soul-destroying ancient horror from the bottom of the Mandelbrot set or are you just happy to see me?

>>31197298
I guessed O-3 because it was the lowest feasible rank at which you'd be wearing a dress uniform with any regularity and 4chan skews young.

File: 1458451863480.jpg (15KB, 374x378px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 374x378px

>>31197379
>>31197390
This is officially the strangest exchange I've ever had on /k/, and the closest I've ever come to doxxing myself.

Still, I can't stop chuckling. Cheers, boys. Pic related.