Turkish Tanks in Syria

>roaches
>intelligence

>>31155147
Why risk your top of the line stuff. At best the SAA has T-72s in that area and ISIS has whatever they can capture. The M60s should be able to deal with that.
If you're taking ATGM hits then you have already done something wrong.

Got to get rid of the old stock before you commit the valuable kit

Turkey is not 'allowed' to use its Leopard 2's offensively per the terms of agreement when they bought them from Germany.

>>31155374

are you fucking kidding me?

>>31155374
I think that clause is removed later on. The reason they don't have M60 Sabra or Leopard 2 is probably they didn't have any in nearby bases. They have stupid number of M60 and M48s.

>>31155147
Leo2 is equally shit too.

Better use T-90.

>>31155147
To be completely fair, any tank is vulnerable to virtually almost all ATGM. And it's not like rebels in Syria have any issues using modern ones. So I guess there's no point.

>>31155847
It's not the be all end all silver bullet kind of stuff. ATGM is weaker than HEAT munition fired from a tank gun, and like HEAT muniton, it wont do much if it hits the front of the tank

If you look more at conflicts in syria, you'll find out that many other tanks that were hit by ATGM fire and ate them like a champ

File: turkish leos.jpg (43KB, 400x254px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 400x254px

This is supposedly Turkish Leos being shipped to the Syrian border

>>31155918
>. ATGM is weaker than HEAT munition fired from a tank gun

The effectiveness of a HEAT warhead is based around its diameter and weight, and the best ATGMs are bigger than any tank round.

>>31155918
Don't quote me on this but I remember reading that there is currently no armor that can't be penetrated by BGM-71E or similar.

The ones that they ate like champ are usually RPGs or ones that did not trigger fire inside, but I'm pretty sure that they'd be able to get some kind of penetration through the armor even if they don't end up in the crew or ammunition compartment.

>>31155147
We literally had the same exact thread word for word, last week.

>>31155303
This.

>>31156067
>I remember reading that there is currently no armor that can't be penetrated by BGM-71E or similar.

A boisterous claim that is impossible to back because no one has access to all modern armor types so they're just talking out their ass.

>>31156164
It's pretty easy to disprove. Why would the BGM-71F switch to top attack if the BGM-71E was unbeatable at front attacks?

>>31156164
Still it has some merits since there isn't a single tank without any combat casualties except of course for the ones that has never been in combat. I think Challenger is the closest one but it still has 1-2 incidents. I'm pretty sure in a large group of samples a considerable amount of these would've been achieved using ATGMs. Therefore I believe the statement any armor can be penetrated is true with some asterisks.

>>31156212
As an alternative to tandem warhead with higher resistance to APS via standoff generation of a EFP.

Depending on the area you hit, pretty much any tank should be vulnerable to a two stage six kilo warhead rated for 900mm RHA, but the armor of some machines should resist it from some aspects and angles.

>>31156212
Well, the US overestimated how well Kontakt ERA worked, as did the Soviets for some time. This lead to improved US munitions even though in reality the existing 105mm stock was still effective.

>>31155281
>SAA
>ISIS

Turkey is fighting the Kurds, not ISIS or the Syrian government.

>>31156245
A t-90 in Syria was hit by a TOW and some guys climbed out
Not sure of the angle and such though

>>31155918
>ATGM is weaker than HEAT munition

full fucking retard.

all modern ATGM can pen all modern tanks from all angles.

>>31156212
>Why would the BGM-71F switch to top attack if the BGM-71E was unbeatable at front attacks?

Because the p(k) is higher against thinner armor

>>31156245
Challenger 2 has done beat with one tank kill, which was blue on blue from another Challenger 2

>>31157075
Not from the front they wont.

That's why 3rd gen ATGM introduced the top attack capability to hit the tank at its more vulnerable point

>>31158706
>Not from the front they wont.

yes they will.

it would entirely defeat the point of an ATGM to not be able to penetrate enemy's tank from the front.

fucking idiot

top attack is only to increase p(kill)

>>31155926
Jesus, what is it with german engineering and boxes?

>>31158781
Do you have proof or is it just something you pull out of yo ass?

There are instances in syria where both T-90 and M-60 were hit by atgm from the front and survived.

File: RatelvsT55.jpg (53KB, 960x710px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 960x710px

>>31155847
You're talking like someone from the late 1950's and 1960's when HEAT munitions were thought to make heavy armor obsolete. Tank armor these days, has a significant advantage over nearly all land based anti-armor weapons.
Like>>31155918 said
The better tanks are eating even the best land based ATGM like candy. An Israeli Namer apc, took several Kornet ATGM hits and yet not only was still fully operational, but sustained zero casualties. And the Kornet is arguably the best infantry wielded ATGM in the world.

The best non-aircraft weapon for taking out a modern MBT is currently another MBT's main gun firing the latest APFSDS ammo. Kinetic energy perpetrators are decently more effective against heavy armor than HEAT based weaponry, these days. Actually it's been that way for over two decades.

>>31159030
I must also add that it never ceases to rustle my jimmies when people, experts or amateurs, say that MBT's are useless, obsolete or other nonsense drivel. They are even more important than ever as now it requires really advanced equipment to take them out.

Because they didn't expect a fight, and they didn't get one. IS fled in advance from Jarablus probably with help from Turkish intelligence.

Everything else was just for show aimed at the Kurds

>>31158926
>Do you have proof or is it just something you pull out of yo ass?

My proof is that russians aren't fucking retarded so the idea that their atgms cant pen western tanks from the front, I know to be fucking stupid.

You are just another brainwashed americantard who is gonna go muh chobham muh never been penetrated frontally muh challenger 2 muh abrams.

There's also the fact that the mechanized infantry doesn't do their job at protecting the tank from enemy AT team, which is why we see disproportionately high number of tanks that were lost to atgm fire

>>31155918
Пepeнocныe/лeгкиe ПTPК пpoбивaют дo 1200 мм бpoни зa динaмичecкoй зaщитoй. Бoльшинcтвo, pacпpocтpaнeнныe ПTPК пpoбивaют мeньшe - oт 600 дo 900 мм, имeннo тaкoe opyжиe чaщe вceгo вcтpeчaeтcя нa Ближнeм вocтoкe.
Кyмyлятивныe cнapяды для тaнкoвых пyшeк кaлибpoв 120-125 мм пpoбивaют нe бoлee 850 мм бpoни зa динaмичecкoй зaщитoй.
Oбычнo 450 - 600 мм.

>>31159145
Lol no one here can read alcoholic

>>31159097
Literally just kill yourself
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=86c_1469728987

>>31159030
Hи кoим oбpaзoм. ПTPК TOW-2 и Кoнкypc-M дocтигли пpoбивaeмocти в 800-850 мм бpoни в cepeдинe 80-х гoдoв, тoгдa кaк APFSDS дocтигли пoдoбных пapaмeтpoв тoлькo 10 лeт cпycтя. B Poccии paзpaбaтывaeтcя мoдepнизиpoвaннaя бoeвaя чacть для ПTPК Кopнeт, ee мoщнocть дocтигaeт 1350 мм бpoни зa динaмичecкoй зaщитoй. Hи oдин пoдкaлибepный cнapяд 120-125 мм нe имeeт дaжe 90% oт этoгo пoкaзaтeля.

>>31159109
This, arabs are just fucking dumb as shit
It's painful watching the saudis send arahams through the wide open with no support, and watching the ammo cook off and kill everyone because they were too fucking dumb to check the hatch

>>31159195
I don't read Cyrilic, babe.

>>31159181

>grainy video of unknown atgm against unknown tank proves anything

you kill yourself

>>31159246
You're a fucking retard
http://imgur.com/a/8s0ZM

>>31159246
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBHC3zacYxw

>>31159097
Fuck off you subhuman vatnik

>>31159286

>some pic
>some claim
>therefore it must be true

dumbfuck

>>31159293

>muh grainy snackbar video
>there's no way to tell where the tank is hit
>this proves anything

ackbar

>>31159330
>>31159338
>A TANK CANT SURVIVE ATGMS
>post videos of tanks surviving ATGM hits
>THE VIDEOS ARENT UP TO MY QUALITY EXPECTATIONS WHY AREN'T THEY 1080p
>THIS DOESNT PROVE ANYTHING BECAUSE THE TANK DIDNT GET HIT IN THE PLACE IM TALKING ABOUT! WAHHH WAHHH
Most tanks get BTFO by ATGMs, because most tanks are fucking outdated and crewed by imbeciles
However, tanks dont just get fucking blown into tiny pieces and have their ammo cook off from every knock you braindead fucking retard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rfyeR-YaJw

>>31159382
>>A TANK CANT SURVIVE ATGMS

le strawman face

>>31155637
How good are them Sabras? Pretty sexy design

>>31159382

>being this retarded
>not knowing how to read

>>31159443
>>31159430
Did that t-90 get penetrated?

>>31159456

>being this fucking retarded

holy shit you are still going at it?

First of all, there is no way to know what atgm was fired and what the configuration of the tank is.

secondly, because of the grainy snackbar video, it's also not possible to tell if the tank was penetrated.

thirdly, even if it was not penetrated, it doesn't prove that atgms can't penetrate modern tanks frontally, it only proves that it doesn't penetrate it 100% of the time.

but keep sperging out you dumb shit. im sure in an all out fulda gap soviet invasion all the russian stockpile of atgms would be entirely ineffective against western tanks because the soviet physicists and engineers were too dumb to realise that atgms can pen magical chobham classified armor fucking lol

jesus youre dumb

>>31159097
>chobham

ohh boy

>>31159030
I wasn't trying to say heavy armor is obsolete, I was just trying to justify the fact that they didn't move Leo 2's into Syria.

But the main point stands, all the modern tanks and armored vehicles have been at least once penetrated, except for Challenger I think. If you can penetrate given that you are determined enough, it's hard to justify for Turks to wait another week to bring Leopard 2s from the other side of the country.