Firearms that had so much potential.

>>31091646
This didn't have potential at all lol.

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>M1 carbine
>in 9mm
>not 10mm or .45 LC

>>31091646
It's a direct blowback 9mm , the fact you thought there was hope is retarded

>>31091975
.45 winmag would have been interesting

>>31091975
>>31092001
These.
>so many PCCs
>all in lol9mm
>nobody taking advantage of the shoulder to do something big

>>31092017
The bolt would have been like 4 pounds then you fucking dumbasses

>>31092026
>every PCC has to be direct blowback
Whatever.

>>31091646
I'd be fine with a m1 clone shooting 9mm, but I fucking wish the cartridges looked like the classic m1 carbine rifle. Fucking destroys the aesthetic of the gun, which is all you have left after switching the caliber to 9mm

>>31091975
10mm, sure, but only if we're looking at a strong action and receiver, good chamber support, to allow for really hot loads.

I'm thinking a lever-delayed blowback action, and then putting a little silicone pad inside the rear of the receiver, to soften the impact of the bolt somewhat, make felt recoil very slightly softer.

It'd be silly in .45ACP unless the gun was rated for .45 Super at the least, so that you could get some really cool velocities, then shoot .45ACP on the cheap (presumably requiring you to swap out the mainspring)

>>31091990
Lots of 9mm carbines and subguns are straight blowback.

>>31092001
Would have been kickass but it would require a different action entirely.
Basically rebarreling a Ruger Deerfield would make more sense.

>>31092026
If you're retarded, sure.

>>31092119
I assume you mean magazines.
And I sort of agree.

I would have made it take Uzi magazines to get a closer aesthetic, ship it with a 10rd mag and a 25rd mag.

I agree.
>9mm PCC
>only PCC with a wooden stock on a market dominated by plastic montrosities
>takes common pistol mags

On paper it has everything for it's niche. Unfortunately Chiappa found away to screw up yet another great concept.
Meanwhile everyone elese is just churning out ARs, so I at least give them props for trying.

>made in Italy

It was bound to be a piece of shit right from the beginning.

>>31092026
The gas tappet system in the original M1 Carbine was scaled up and worked fine in .50bmg. I doubt it'd have any trouble with any pistol round.

>>31091646
Ive always wondered if they could make one chambered in .300 blackout, would it be viable?

>>31092893
You mean the ruger mini 30?

>>31091646
I'm still buying one

>>31092931
I know they made a version for that cartridge, but i really like the aesthetic of the m1 carbine.

>M1 Carbine
>9mm

HARAM!!!!

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>>31092931
There's a Mini 14 in 300 blackout now. It comes with a synthetic stock, but you could easily drop it into a wood stock if you wanted to.

http://www.ruger.com/products/mini14TacticalRifle/specSheets/5864.html

>>31091646
I feel your pain OP. It's made worse by the fact the M1 has already been chambered in 9mm. They wouldn't have had to do much, but no Chiappa has to shit the bed.

>>31092468
I'm all for bringing back the Deerfield, but in a selection of Magnum pressure calibers like 10mm, .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum and even .30 Carbine.

>>31092478
See, if it had been hi-cap, it might have sold better. You can pack two double stack pistol mags in a 7.62 mag.

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>>31091646

1 0 M M
M A G N U M

>>31093054
>92fs doesn't have hi-cap
Stop right there criminal scum.

>>31093138
>do you know what's stupid
>rifle cartridges
>but let's have a straight wall meme cartridge you need to cram powder into for shitty burn efficacy with a shitty pistol bullet with the aerodynamics of a fucking rock

Every fucking pistol carbine thread some mouth breathing, slackjawed, inbred, micro penis, morbidly obese stupid mother fucker comes in with his 10mm meme. Fuck you, you goddamn no guns retard.

>>31093358

Would be great if somebody had made a 223 version of the M1 Carbine, but they didnt unless you could the Mini 14.

The M1 Carbine was chambered originally in what is more or less a magnum pistol round. Thus flagging it as "this is a rifle that shoots pistol rounds".

M1 Carbine is about stopping power, that can actually reach out and touch someone. Thats better done with larger diameter bullets - because smaller rifle bullets you have to put a fuckton of power behind. While a 9mm, 10mm, .45 caliber slug causes that big of a hole already.

Also the size of the magwell is limited in the same way.

I guess Maybe a more appropriate loading would be 8x33 Kurz but how practical is that?

How about 5.7x28? Oh wait thats a meme caliber.

How about .22wmr? Oh wait even though they make a .22 version... the .22wmr will kill any weapon that isnt bolt action because the wmr hates semi-autos.

Besides...
I didnt say 10mm Auto.
I said 10mm Magnum.

A perfect fucking round that got left behind somehow. Desert Eagles should be shooting this. Carbines should be chambered in this.

>>31092017
The point is to have something lightweight that shares ammo with your sidearm.

>>31092026
Gee genius, maybe it was a pretty retarded move to make an M1 carbine direct-blowback instead of sticking with the original action, eh?

>>31093001
Why? They make a Mini 30, and they don't have to care about compatibility with AR parts.

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YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE

>>31093591
I have a mini 30. I like it a lot. Fun to shoot.

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YOU WEREN'T AND YOURE ABSOLUTELY FUCKING HIDEOUS BUT STILL

>>31093607
THANK YOU BASED REMINGTON

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>>31093644
IS OKAY, GLORIOUS POLAND WILL SAVE US ALL

>>31091646
for what reason was it made direct blowback?

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Hungary stronk.

>>31093676
>Reciprocating Handle

>>31092747
>Beretta
>Benelli
>Franchi
>Fabarm
>Uberti
>Caesar Guerini
Yeah they can't do anything, right?

>>31092893
Ruger makes the Mini-14 in .300BLK, it has a flash-hider for you to put a QD suppressor on, and comes with four magazines marked ".300"

It's as close as you'll get to that, I figure you could get a wood worker to make you a stock styled more like an M1.

>>31092931
Not in .300BLK?

>>31093791
Forgot Pedersoli m80

>>31091646
>Chiappa

>>31091990
kys

>>31093842

Pietta is pretty based too.

>>31094123
In terms of value, yes. But their guns tend to be a bit lacking in the quality materials department. But, they do work, and are better then the hilariously low prices would suggest.

Just don't be too surprised when your revolver develops timing problems.

>>31094309

Well I have yet to notice it on mines, the only noticeable difference between my 1858 Pietta and my Uberti is the finish, and a somewhat shorter trigger run.

It serves well for your bucks, not top tier, but good enough tier to me.

>>31094388
They are good enough, yes. I have two of their 1858s, but after about 2k rounds i did have to work on the hands, as they had worn down.

>>31091646
I really want one but I've heard they tend to jam a lot. Does anyone here own one? They're not that expensive so I might pick one up to fuck around with.

>>31093412
10mm Magnum got left behind because of a decision by AMT TO offer the AutoMag IV in both 10mm Magnum and .45 Winchester Magnum. It wasn't exactly a high production gun to begin with, so most customers ordered their new AutoMags in .45 WinMag, since the cartridge was already in limited production for the Wildey Magnum and LAR Grizzly.

I'd personally like to see a Desert Eagle in 10mm Magnum. Fooling around with some .40S&W brass, which is the same diameter as 10mm, and .50AE Deagle mags, it looks like you could actually have a double stack magazine of between 14 to 16 rounds.

Unfortunately, I doubt Magnum Research will do it. The reason the Desert Eagle succeeded where other automagnums failed is that it was initially chambered in commonly available revolver cartridges.

Building a 10mm Magnum on the current frame would require a new magazine design and cartridge specific bolt as well as a new barrel. Not a huge investment, but not one MRI is likely to make without a promise of decent sales.

>>31092977
It's not an awful idea though.

>>31093054
The OP gun takes 92FS magazines, in old standard that's 15rds, new standard is 18rds (with the same outer dimensions), 20rd magazines are pretty compact, and 30rd magazines are good quality.

Problem is the carbine here is just rubbish, and Beretta makes a carbine that already feeds from their pistol mags, one which is pretty good quality.

>>31093412
>but they didnt unless you count the Mini 14.
That's kind of the Mini-14, it's pretty close to the M1 already, aside from the sling arrangement.
Old GB models and select-fire models (sans the carbine length ones) had a bayonet lug to take an M7 bayonet. If you were to put a bayonet lug on a new 580 series one, and used it with 20rd mags, that'd be relatively close to the M1, except having more range and power.

>The M1 Carbine was chambered originally in what is more or less a magnum pistol round.
It's more of a small rifle cartridge IMO, the idea being something good for short to medium ranges, that's better than a pistol but not as bulky as a battle rifle.

>M1 Carbine is about stopping power, that can actually reach out and touch someone.
The M1 is about being lightweight.

>Also the size of the magwell is limited in the same way.
Not like that can't change, not like the Chiappa is a real M1

>8x33 Kurz
Too fucking fat, .300BLK does the same thing but stacks better while being easier and cheaper to reload and buy.

>How about 5.7x28?
5.7mm Johnson is literally the .30 carbine cartridge necked down to .22 caliber, it's like an inbetween of 5.7x28mm and 5.56x45mm, some experimenting was done with this on M1 carbines and M2 select-fire carbines, not shabby.

>.22wmr will kill any weapon that isnt bolt action because the wmr hates semi-autos.
Delayed blowback let's .22WMR and .17HMR play ball with automatics. Gas operation as well.

>Desert Eagles should be shooting this.
They already tried with the .41 Magnum but that cartridge flopped, which is a shame.

>>31093559
For some it's just about a gun that's fun and cheap to shoot.

>>31093579
I think making it operate on the same action and same gas system would make it more expensive than what Chiappa was aiming at for a 9mm plinker.

If we're talking about making it in Magnum cartridges, then yeah, blowback is a poor idea, but gas operation isn't 100% ideal with your typical handgun cartridges.

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>>31093412
>Would be great if somebody had made a 223 version of the M1 Carbine, but they didnt unless you could the Mini 14.

>>31091975
>not in .357/.38
Ftfy

>>31091646
extra shitty

>>31091685
>>31091990
>>31092747
>>31092977
OP here, for me the greatest appeal was that it was in cheap 9mm, and in a nostalgic, lightweight fast handling platform. Was really deadset on getting one until I saw that review, and how much plastic is on it. Hell if it was reliable, it could even be used in home defense.

>>31096335
The Taofledermaus review? I saw that and was disappointed, I'm in New York and this looked like a good option for a pistol caliber carbine that isn't a lever action.

>>31096335
>9mm
>home defense
lol

>>31096829
It'll work.

>>31097499
So will a shovel but it's not ideal.

>>31095947
>Not in .50 African Eliminator
>Not in .500 Smith n Wesson Magnum
weak little babby man

>>31097506
>18rds of 9mm Luger from a 16" barrel, fired from the shoulder
It's not amazing, but it's not terrible either, it's better than a 9mm pistol or .357 revolver, I'd put it somewhere around a shotgun, good enough power to be worthwhile as a weapon, but outclassed by a good 5.56mm or 5.45mm rifle.

>>31092468
>thinking a lever-delayed blowback action
I'm curious about that too, though Mec Tec makes a telescoping blowback that works fine in most 10mm chamberings.

The problem is that a lever delayed action has few advantages outside of weight and even then the Mechtech is only like five and a half pounds and recoil impulse but the lever delay action is a pretty violent one too.

You could make one in sporter configuration but cuck states are liable to fuck your shit up because of reasons.

But there is a niche for everything so I might be wrong.

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>>31091646
>2:00
>that blowback action
Fucking horrifying

>>31098805
>tfw .10 cents of neoprene buffer could have solved the worst of it
>tfw a tube upper meant for a Glock frame handles better than a gun built from the ground up for it
Spaghetti niggers, not even once.

>>31098594
>but the lever delay action is a pretty violent one too.
Hence the silicone/rubber pad in the rear of the receiver for the bolt to impact against at the rear of it's travel. Or maybe that green shit Billy Mays showed off once.
An AR/SCR style buffer would probably work way better (and not dry out in time) but it would limit you away from folding stocks, which would be important to some.

I want a delayed blowback for a carbine like this to make it lighter and to make the action easy to rack.
Altough it occurs to me that delayed blowback can require fluting in the chamber to make extraction not a mess, this is a concern for handloaders with a HK91 rifle, but a given that brass can be saved from it's violent extraction by just clipping on a buffer to the side of the gun (cushioning the impact of the brass dinging against the receiver), it makes me think the fluting itself isn't what would cause this, brass is fine for reloading afterwards.
There's probably a solution for this but it springs to mind when you're looking at a handloader's cartridge like .45 Super, 10mm Magnum and .45 WinMag

I think .50AE would be something worth exploring in a carbine too, unless maybe Tromix has made an AR upper in the caliber, I'm not sure if there are any actual long arms in .50AE

>>31098941
I don't think that action could have been more poorly designed if you tried. If that rubber block came with the rifle itself, I'd have demanded a refund the instant I saw it in the box.

>>31099117
I'm debating the market for a simple but still more complicated to manufacture carbine than a telescoping bolt.

For something like the .50 AE it would be rather well worth it given the bolt itself would be 6 damn pounds if you were to make it a direct blowback.

Also would be sexy to have a variant meant to handle big bore rimmed cartridges that can feed from a stripper clip or a double stack box mag like the Lee Enfeild but that's going into interrupter and other complicated and precise stamp work

>>31097580
No, it's nowhere near as useful as a shotgun. The wounding potential is way, way, way way WAAAAAAY greater with a shotgun.

>>31093607
How is it actually? I've heard some of the promised features never got added.

>>31091646
>bolt attached to a weight that slides under the barrel
This is a good idea, (it's almost like a telescoping bolt), and it's something which has been done well before, Ruger used to make the PC9 and PC4, blowback carbines in 9mm Luger and .40S&W, feeding from Ruger pistol magazines, with a bolt-arrangement like this.

They worked, well even, so it's not like this concept can't be done right. I'm thinking, this is a gun which probably could be made to work pretty reliably and see some substantial improvements if you are a gunsmith and a tinkerer, willing to do the work and modifications. It could be an interesting project, but it's not a good consumer product.

I don't know if the issues are from a design flaw (trying to make a blowback gun with an action that looks like an M1), or if it's bad manufacturing. I see what they're doing with the fake oprod attached to the extra bolt-mass, and I think that can be made to work.

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>>31091646

>>31099293
>the bolt itself would be 6 damn pounds if you were to make it a direct blowback
I never said anything about making the .50 straight-blowback.

But I think a delayed blowback can work great for service pistol calibers, with a buffer to catch the bolt with, a 9mm/.40/.45 carbine with some similarities to what Chiappa was sort of trying for would probably be a pretty good weapon.

>>31099326
In a single shot? No kidding, but five or six shots of hardcasts I imagine would have wounding not entirely dissimilar to a 20 Gauge buckshot load.

>>31099368
Vaporware as fuck.
No caliber conversions for you.

Now it's just a really expensive plastic AR-18 and nothing else, like a G36, but better (yet still disappointing).

Remington fucked it all up.

>>31099501
I know, I was just bouncing ideas around of how to make a delayed blowback work commercially.

Telescoping bolts are usually the same weight and simpler than a PCC in most service calibers so I really don't see what one would gain from it.

>>31092001
.45WM was eating the bolt lugs off of actual gas op M1Carbines and had garbage capacity. Why the fuck would a blow back .45WM with proprietary mags be better

>>31092468
You and your goddamn lever delay. Did you just learn about the FAMAS a month ago cause this shit is being mentioned all the time on /k/ now

How are auto-ordnance m1 carbines?

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Name ONE flaw that ISN'T CASELESS AMMO.

>>31099990
I've always thoutght lever-delay was a good idea for pistol cartridges.

Maybe not so much for rifle cartridges.

>>31093412
It would have been great if they had gone back to the Pig Board results and used the .250 Savage instead of the popgun .30 carbine.

With the fully-automatic variants, we could have had assault rifles in quantity come D-Day.

>>31092119
>I fucking wish the cartridges looked like the classic m1 carbine rifle.
If it was in .357 with the original design/materials I'd have one sitting by my M1 carbine right now.

>>31097575
>fully loaded mag costs $30.

>>31101496
>plastic space gun
>internals too complicated bexause muh kraut spac Magic so soldiers can't clean it

>>31101496
>name one flaw that isn't the most glaring, awful flaw that's so horrid you can't possibly look past it.

>>31102095
M1s weren't used as assault rifles in WW2 though, they were the PDW of the day, and weren't really put on the front line. The power it had was absolutely fine for it's purpose.

Even assuming it would have been chambered for an intermediate cartridge and have been select-fire, it wouldn't really have been used as such at all.

In Korea, the M2 was made select-fire and given 30rd mags, still intended for PDW use, but it was employed for frontline infantry combat a lot, mainly by marines.

The M2, and also the M1, got shit on for being used outside of it's effective range, mainly because Marines aren't smart.

Now, had the carbine been in a cartridge that's intermediate, that potential would have become very apparent in Korea, where it got used outside of it's intended purpose.
It would likely have done so well that maybe the M14 could have been entirely skipped and the US would have looked into assault rifle development way before Vietnam.

The question is then if the AR10 and AR15 would ever even happen, that's a phenomenal rifle gone. Without the M14 would there have been a Mini-14, would Platt have shot all those FBI agents with a similar weapon, or not at all? That would mean no .40S&W, would we then skip trying to bridge the gap between 9mm and .45, or would .41AE win out by default?
If the AR15 never existed, would Colt even still exist by the 1990s, how different would the market be without this rifle?
If Eugene Stoner wasn't tasked with making a cheaper alternative to the AR15, there would be no AR18, then also there would be no AUG, G36, L85, F2000, SCAR, etc, would the European armies then instead be using FNC rifles and derivatives? Or would the FNC just not happen without the AR-15 bringing about the .223 cartridge? Maybe it would just derive from all those FAL and CAL test models and we'd eventually have something very FNC like in .280 or 4.8mm, the cartridges Britain was testing.
Or would there be more H&K roller delayed rifles?

>>31102275
CETME made some roller-delayed rifles in .30 Carbine, if .30 Carbine never existed, and this other intermediate cartridge was used for the M1, would there then have been this early HK33 style weapon without the invention of .223?

>>31102310
>would there then have been this early HK33 style weapon without the invention of .223?
Probably, Cetme also experimented with 8x33mm and Belgium's/Britain's candidate for a NATO cartridge.

Those were both good cartridges, although a bit larger and slower than .223Remingshit.

>>31095452
I really wanted the 5.7 Johnson to be a thing. I even made my own cartridge by necking down .30 carbine to 6.5mm and loaded a 110 gr bullet. It would have been perfect for its intended roll

>>31102577
.223 Remington is a great cartridge for a full length rifle.

Ever seen what a M193 load does out of a 20" barrel? That shit damn near clips your arm off if it hits bone, 5.45x39mm also has some pretty good loadings, there's a reason speed is a good idea for a full length infantry rifle.

>>31103296
>I really wanted the 5.7 Johnson
It kind of is, it's just uncommon.

You can neck down a .30 cartridge and load a .223 bullet of your choice, load data exists, as does M1 and M2 carbines converted for the cartridge.

http://www.sandygunworks.com/Articles/The57JohnsonSpitfire.aspx

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>>31104606
Pic related, a select-fire M2 carbine in 5.7mm Johnson (also known as .22 Spitfire), it's like a babby AC-556

I don't think .22 Spitfire would quite cut it as an assault rifle cartridge, but it'd be a pretty alright PDW cartridge, it's as if the 5.7x28mm ate it's vegetables, imagine .22 Spitfire with bullets similar to the fancy loads FN made for the P90, just way more power.

Also, just as a thought, imagine it with a plastic stock and a laser, as well as something like the Colt Moderator (pretend there is no NFA) to dampen flash and noise, this would be a formidable gun even a frail grandma could easily handle, instead of full-auto, give it a burst selector and two stage trigger.
On semi the trigger only goes to one stage, 1 shot per pull, on burst, the trigger allows for two stages, the second stage is a 2rd burst, allowing a really weak and inexperienced person to put out rapid fire really fast if needed, without risking losing control of the gun.

>>31092001
Someone was doing that conversion for a while back in the 90s there might be a few floating around if I find one I'm buying it for Ohio hunting

>>31105298

I know of one for sale in PA

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Post yfw no one will make a proper m1 carbine replica chambered in .357

>>31105362
Really? How much?

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>>31105518

>>31105518
I want to make a scaled down SKS in .357

Make it feed from a fixed double stacked mag of say 8rds (because rimmed).

I'd do a bunch of changes to the action and design to make it better and lighter, but have a similar shape to the bolt-carrier and receiver.

>>31105652
Why an sks? Interesting idea but I'm not sure of the benefits of switching from 7.62x39 to .357. The only reason I'd be so interested in an m1 in .357 is because it's ballistically similar to the original round yet almost every gun shop carries .357

>>31105557

Under a grand from what I recall.

In the Lehigh Valley

>>31105762
SKS has a nice battery of arms, and .357 is cheap and light, easy to shoot.

I'd make the bolt more like an AR18 (rotating) bolt with radial lugs, and the barrel arrangement more like an AR15, together with this, the receiver can be made much lighter and out of aluminum, since the bolt now locks into a steel barrel extension instead of into the receiver itself. The rear top-cover would have a top rail where the rear sight is attached, the rear of the receiver would have a neoprene recoil buffer (the gun would come with a whole bunch of sealed package spares, they're cheap), purely to make it wear and recoil very slightly less.

The gas system would remain the same, except for an adjustable plug on the gasblock, the plug can be removed from the block, and if needed, the block itself can be detached.
This is because gas operation and revolver cartridges is a complexity, if lead shears off in the gasport from incorrect ammunition, you would be able to fix that problem yourself (even if it'd be a small project), rather than having a bricked gun, also this makes the gun easy to clean.
I would also want the bore and gas system treated with melonite, due to how dirty this gun can become.

I'd probably want a detachable magazine kit devised as an optional part, because someone will want higher capacity and faster reloads, let someone else figure out high capacity magazines, if they succeed I'll endorse them.

>>31105957
The issue that I would have is the gas system. The differences in rounds could mean that you would need to completely change it, but I'm not sure I haven't looked at the pressures of each round. The barrel could also be a potential issue. Even though they're extremely similar diameters, they're very different shapes and that could be another potential issue, not to mention the rifling

>>31105957
At that rate, you're changing more than you're leaving alone. It would not really be an SKS at that point.

>>31099534
I remember being curious & seeing that "Future Weapons" episode on the Masada. They advertised the caliber conversion, simplicity & even being a bit lighter than the M16. Is that true or did Remington/Bushmaster/maybe even Magpul fuck it up?

>>31106443
How many companies were working on it to begin with?

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G11. This weapon would have been the next step. Besides, if Germany adopted it the US Army would be issuing M41A's instead of M4's

>You will never remove kabab with pulse rifle.
Why live.

>>31109181

Minus the overheating issues, and considering germans cant make regular guns not melt this one would likely melt even worse than it they claimed in testing.

>>31106370
I know, I just want the battery of arms.

>>31105993
>The differences in rounds could mean that you would need to completely change it,
How do you mean? The system would be designed for .357, and it would be click adjustable for all kinds of pressures, from completely shut off to allowing the cycling of even a .38 tier load.

>The barrel could also be a potential issue. Even though they're extremely similar diameters, they're very different shapes and that could be another potential issue, not to mention the rifling
Why would any of this be an issue?

>>31099326
>shotgun
Oh boy here comes shotgun fags delusional with how great their shit is. Look man capacity/accuracy has been proven king time and again. Go ahead choose whatever works for you, but a slow ass action of any shotty isn't gonna be as useful as 18+ rounds of 9mm that can be used indoors with a suppressor.

>>31095917
THIS IS LITERALLY MY DREAM RIFLE

A M1 STYLE ACTION THAT TAKES AR 15 MAGAZINES

I'm literally fucking depressed about this. This gun looks like it's something that just pops up at auction.

I guess I'm either getting a carbine or a mini...

>>31111896
I figure if you can get ahold of an expert gunsmith, you can modify a Mini-14, weld on a magwell to the receiver to allow it to take AR mags.

Feed geometry would be very similar, might only have to modify the bolt a little.

>>31093412
>>31093412
>what is the savage a22
Want to know how I know you're retarded?

>>31101496
banned by name in my Country.

That is a big flaw.