Is surrendering a shameful act?

>>31082443
only if you dont have to

>>31082443
That depends, sometimes its beyond your choice.

>>31082443
>Is surrendering a shameful act?
is dying for something stupid a shameful act?

>>31082443
It can be. Sometimes it's unavoidable and there is no shame in it as long as there is no shame in how hard you fought.

>>31082443
Never let them take you Alive.

>>31082443
No.
But depending on who you are fighting, it maybe better to just fight until death.

>>31082443
Honor is for the living. The dead feel no honor.

Against a comparable nation, no. Surrendering when you're in a tactically useless situation is smart and logical. The Germans surrendered all the time when they were hopelessly outgunned because they recognized the futility of fighting in such a scenario.

Once you're a POW, you're a drain on the enemy. They have to either feed you or not feed you and face war crimes charges if they lose.

>>31082443
is this a real question?

>>31082466
/thread

In the Marines we were taught to fight with your rifle until you run out of ammo, then fight with whatever you can find, then fight with your fists, then fight with your teeth. Never surrender.

if it's the only way to avoid death yes. some may argue about greater causes and martyrdom but i'm far too cynical and drunk for this shit tonight

>>31082443
Ask the french, they sure "lived to fight another day"

>>31082557
/thread

In certain situations it's the best logical decision you can make, other than literally condemning yourself and your entire side to unnecessary death.

If you die, there's a 0% chance of going home after. Surrender gives you at least 1% chance of going home, which is lightyears from an absolute zero chance.

IIRC the japs an heroed all the time because they believed they would be horrifically tortured and eating grenades was preferable than being skinned alive or whatever they were told

>>31082443
Absolutely not.

>>31082610
Kill yourself.

>>31082443
Unless you're doing it just to get close enough to start ripping out jugulars.

Discretion is the better part of valor, just don't surrender while you still have options.

>>31082443

Depends who you're surrendering to. If you're fighting a professional military with a good human rights record and find yourself grossly out maneuvered surrendering is a lot smarter than dying in a ditch for no tactical reason. It also helps put strain on the enemies logistics so you can sort of justify it. If you're fighting fanatics in the desert, they're probably just going to execute you in crueler ways on a video camera in about a week or so. Go down swinging. You can tell yourself every last one of them you drop before you go is one less on the line in the next battle.

Depends.

The Italians surrendering was a good thing for them. There was nothing good to come out of fighting to keep the unpopular Mussolini regime afloat and arguably could have been far worse for Italy had they continued to fight.

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>>31082557
>Once you're a POW, you're a drain on the enemy. They have to either feed you or not feed you and face war crimes charges if they lose.
POWs are free labour. Always welcome in a time of total war.

>>31082443
A dead man is of absolutely no use to anyone.

>>31082629
Sorry, I don't speak Faggot.

>>31082461
Who decides if the cause is stupid?

>>31082685
One could say the same about your average German soldier with no loyalty to the SS who wanted to distance themselves from the true believers of the Nazi regime when they knew defeat was imminent.

Whew lad, look at all the surrender monkeys! Whelp, easy kill streak.

Guess I'll be one of those old dudes bragging about how many kills I got in the war convienently ignoring you tried to surrender. Lol

>>31082726
Our deaths will be much more pleasant than your stay in The Hague.

>>31082706
isn't this exactly why you ONLY surrender to uniformed regulars?

>>31082740
Some three star hotel in the Netherlands? Probably not... Remember, trying to surrender will get you shot for desertion.

>>31082765

They surrendered to uniformed police officers

>>31082773
wasn't it just a handful of cops backed up by hundreds of civilian protestors who had been shouting "allahu akbar" at them the entire night?

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>>31082706
That's the difference between civilized nations and sandniggers. A wise man once said that a measure of civilization is how they treat their young, old, poor, sick and their captives.

Surrendering when the odds are completely against you and you would prefer to save your men from needlessly dying isn't shameful

>>31082770
>Remember, trying to surrender will get you shot for desertion
grow up

>>31082785
By that measure America is trash.
>tons of starving children and families in poverty
>old people are kicked out of their homes and thrown into retirement homes where they are abused by lequisha and her nigger friends
>being sick in america bankrupts your family if its anything serious
>the captives
hahaha, the fucking irony

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>>31082443
>91,000 German soldiers surrender at Stalingrad
>marched through Moscow literally shitting in the streets due to dysentery, being humiliated in front of moscow's population
>march to Siberia
>used as slave labor in dangerous mines
>tortured, beaten, starved, overworked at the pleasure of Soviet animals under Stalin
>6,000 eventually are repatriated. The other 85,000 perish
>Most Germans who were repatriated said they wish they had continued to fight and die at Stalingrad instead of surrender

I don't know, you tell me, OP.

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>>31082806
Yeah sure by those measures America ain't doing great but there's a lot more countries doing way worse.

>>31082804
This would be a perfect time for the image with the dude pointing and saying "that's where you're wrong, kiddo!"

Basically, you're a naïve child. War ain't a fucking game, people fucking die. Yet, you think I'm going to let someone else make the fucking choice to be at the enemies goddamned mercy!? Fuck you, I'll fucking kill you.

>>31082702
ME!

>>31082443
Surrender is never an option.

>>31082830
I don't think it's surrendering, I think it's what the captors do with that power.

I'm sure we executed quite a few, but what did we (USA) do with German POWs in WWII?

>>31082889
If you're the superior who got us fucked in the first place and you want to kill your own troops for knowing when to call it quits when you literally have no other option or means to escape, you are the one who should be shot.

>>31082830
What other choice did Paulus have? His supply route was cutoff, he was encircled, and he was going to run out of food/ ammo.
He realized the situation was hopeless. Yes, much of his men died in captivity and of disease. But some lived because of their determination to see home and their families again, there would not have been survivors if he kept up the fight. Just a bunch of men that died for absolutely nothing other than out of stubbornness.

>>31082912
If you were my soldier I'd fucking kill myself because I've clearly failed to fucking train you and you clearly don't know what you signed up for.

>>31082702
>you have to get permission from a moral authority I refuse to name in order to be allowed to do this thing that I'm not in any way involved with or else I, random stranger on the internet who clearly has bad opinions and is definitely, absolutely mentally retarded, will think less of you!

this is an example of something that you shouldn't be worried about.

>>31082932
Quiet down now.

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>>31082916
Some Germans had been executed for alleged cannibalism already. If I were Paulus I would've made the same choice at that point.

>>31082702
I do
considering it's my damn life on the line

>>31082932
>If you were my soldier I'd fucking kill myself

Sounds great!

>>31082932
At least we wouldn't have to listen to your clearly insane ass anymore, Commissar.

Remember kids, 40k isn't real life.

>>31082932
Are you going to shoot me in the back like a coward?

>>31082806
By your measure, every country is trash that isn't fucking Iceland.

>>31082610

did you sit through the "Im just naval infantry and meant to be meat for the grinder" class too?

>>31082830
Basically, this. Russians is worse than animals. Every NATO soldier should know about it.
I rather pretend dead and blow myself up with grenade, like Japanese do during WWII.

>>31082916
>>31082941

>die in a bayonet charge
>endure 13 years of absolute hell with only a 7% chance of even surviving

you choose.

>>31082905
we brought some of them back to the US for labor.

>>31082941
That's a pretty good indication that things have not developed well for you.

>>31082443
The only question is if you know surrendering will be less miserable than dying.

I'd rather be gunned down in a flurry of gun fire than be used as a coal miner in some shitty mine where I'll likely die.

>>31082972
Too bad Germans is incapable to act without orders.

Basically
>Don't surrender to the Russians
>Don't surrender to Muslims
>Don't surrender to Africans
>Don't surrender to Latin Americans/Cartel groups
>Don't surrender to North Korea

We're pretty much okay with everyone else I think.

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>>31082972
With the information they had at the time it seemed more reasonable.

You my friend have the advantage of hindsight on your side. Paulus did not have sufficient information to make the decision to have a last desperate charge.

>>31082937
Great rebuttal. Really made me think...
>>31082952
Yeah, it's fucking worse.

>>31082953
Oddly enough in war, quite a few people get shot in the back. I suppose one more wouldn't hurt.

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>>31083027
>only surrender to white western
>wait, we are the white western

>>31083027
I'd include chinks, Japs and Indians on that list. So basically
>Surrender to Europeans except Ruskies
>Surrender to North Americans unless you're a sandnig
>Surrender to Aussie shitposters and Kiwis
And you'll be fine

>>31082972
While it may seem like a good idea, and likely is the better option. That 7% chance is still better than 0%.
Plus, if an entire army is lost in a suicidal assault, the enemy will remember it later on. Look how that turned out for the Japanese. Their refusal to give up meant the Americans decided to try to force the war to an end with the Atomic Bombs. And even after those some Japanese tried to fight on.
When you've lost- off yourself or accept it. Don't jeopardize your countrymen and nation's civilians by making the enemy think they should just kill you all because it's the only end result.

>>31082905

The answer is "treated exceptionally well", as long as it was before D-day, then the answer is just "usually well, if the supply situation was adaquate". If you were an Axis POW lucky enough to be put into a camp in the US or Canada, you had lower mortality rate than peacetime because the food and healthcare was better than back home.

Letter by POW Otto Recke to his parents.

>Here I can state, that my fate stood under a lucky star and still stands. Maybe you thought I had arrived in Heaven long ago. I really thought I heard the angels singing, but they didn't want to admit me. instead of Heaven, I landed in America which is the same thing. Here I can take care of myself like a human being again, and feel like one, eat at a table, sleep in a bed. The food is first class too. You don't have to worry about me, because indeed I'm much better off than all of you. (25)

After the war, Otto eventually immigrated to the US, in the same town where he was held POW.

The primary complaints of the German officers in charge were.

1. The Americans kept showing them wartime cartoons and propaganda in an attempt to de-nazify them.

2. Since they were captured in North Africa, they were held with Arabs also captured. The officers felt it was demeaning to be held in the same camp as the lesser races.

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>>31083027
Also don't surrender to American unless you can give them your Name, rank and number. If you can't give them any of those off to the pleasant weather of Cuba you go to enjoy f.ex. music of Britney Spears for one and a half month non-stop.

The most interesting form of sleep deprivation "torture" I've ever heard about but I wonder how many assassination attempts she is going to have if they ever shut that facility down.

>>31083058
>It's worse
P-praise the emperor?
Where's my eldar gf?

>>31083110
Probably none. There are multiple other sites dangerous prisoners could be transferred to in Central Europe and in "friendly" places in the ME.
Some of the wikileaks documents talked about how the CIA threatened to transfer prisoners to the Saudis or Turks if they didn't talk. Because they will gladly torture, even if just to keep their skills sharp.

>>31083122
Ever watch someone get covered by their best friend's remains in your little fucking comic book?

>>31083110

Americans treat uniformed combatants really well, treat un-uniformed irregulars like absolute shit.

Although not to the degree of Nazi "shoot on sight" shit.

A lot of Iraqis that surrendered during Desert Storm didn't want to be repatriated, because the POW camps were better than their barracks and the camp guards weren't as abusive as their officers.

>>31083150
Yes actually, it's quite brutal, chaos gods and Deamons and all that.

>>31083058
Fuck you're edgy. Do you think you're impressing people with your linkin park routine?

>>31083168
Sounds pretty good... Where do I read this?

Haven't read anything good in a while.

>>31083091
>Surrendering to Canadians
Not in WW1.
https://web.viu.ca/davies/H355H.Cda.WWI/CanadianSoldiers.prisoners.2006.htm

a Canadian soldier escorting a group of German prisoners to the rear lines is described as having "casually dropped a Mills No. 5 grenade into the greatcoat pocket of one of the prisoners, which dismembered him seconds later."
Full paper if you want to read: https://web.viu.ca/davies/h482.wwi/timcook.cdns.killingprisoners.pdf

Although this is a tit-for-tat of war crimes between the Canadians and Germans. You kill our surrendering men, we kill yours. You shoot our officer, we shoot yours. You charge and bayonet our field hospital... you get the picture.

>>31083191
It's Warhammer 40k, the board your gonna wants to go to is /tg/, and it's a mixture of books, war games miniatures, and probably some graphic novels. Don't take the setting too seriously.

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>>31083143
Most people are afraid of the idea of pain more than pain itself. Arabs and turks like causing pain but by all measures their interrogation techniques are less efficient for getting reliable intelligence than what the western nations use. Using them as a threat for interrogatees actually is quite simple and efficient psychological tactic.

>>31083203
yeah but it was a canadian nco who was nailed to a barnyard door, so I can imagine they'd be pretty brutal in return desu

>>31083228
lol the cia dude looks like an agent from the matrix

>>31082557
Except the Allies didn't do that for Germans.

See Eisenhower's Death Camps. And Churchhill had a way of outright executing POWs.

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>>31083239
>a canadian nco who was nailed to a barnyard door

Later after war investigations concluded that there was no proof of the incident as there were no surviving eye witnesses to it.

It was concluded as probably being a bullshit wartime horror story and silently dropped.

>>31083260

>Eisenhower death camps

Go back to stormfront pls.

Also kys

>>31083103
What a bunch of bullshit.

>>31082971
Russians are legitimately not human beings.

Depends on the context, I guess. If I didn't think my cause was just, I'd probably surrender asap. A more interesting question, in my opinion, is under what circumstances you'd order troops under your command to surrender.

>>31083155
>Although not to the degree of Nazi "shoot on sight" shit.
So. Shooting on site is a worse fate than being mercilessly tortured psychologically for months on end? I don't think so.

Sorry but the Nazi's weren't the 'ultimate torturer evil guys' that everyone likes to think. The Americans have the most evil methods of torture, all without harming a hair on your head.

Any arab country's methods of torture are despicable.

>>31083281
You're a fucking idiot. Read some non state-approved literature. They were absolutely real. They left thousands of germans out to the elements and starved them.

You're braindead if you believe in a fantasy world where the US are the only good guys if you believe we didn't do that shit.

Fucking Christ are you disillusioned or what.

>kys
Oh, I get it. You're just a retard.

>>31082702
Live to fight another day, bro, even if that is many years in the future, no reason to die

>>31083311

I have a source, actual letters written home by German POWs, and delivered by the Red Cross. Where's yours?

Since Americans treating their POWs well triggers you, have some more.

Letter home from Prisoner Heinz Ohelmann

>As usual everything is O.K. We reached the U.S. satisfied and in comfort. The trip to the southern states was made in an upholstered [passenger train] car. Food and treatment is excellent, it's like a furlough. Food is served on cloth covered tables. The rest of the time, I am lying down without a shirt under the pines, studying or taking showers.

>There are 50 of us living in airy, roomy barracks, scenery reminds one of Mecklenburg. So, dear parents do not worry.

>And dear mother, naturally something about the food, it is no fairy tale. We have cake almost daily, all kinds of fruit, Kellogg's flakes with milk, roasts, salads, real coffee, crackers, etc. I often think how all of you would rejoice, and how urgently the children need it all. Today we have 3 large, fat pancakes and an omelet just as a side dish. Though food is not the most important thing it gladdens me. To me it is very important as I live just as on vacation. (23)

Cake here refers to a kind of Southern sweet bread, not "birthday cake" cake.

>>31083387
>EDUCATE YOURSELF

Do you have example sources my non-drone free thinking senpai?

>>31082443
Are those Swedes?

>>31083435
Those are germans surrendering to soviets

>>31083493
They're holding what look like Mausers though

>>31083501
Russians surrendering to Finns maybe?

>>31082791
Unless its against sandnigggers

>>31082702
Me.

>>31083501
Middle one is holding a RGD-33 hand grenade

>>31083501
They're Yugo Mausers, though

>>31083311

Youre not from the Upper Midwest are you

>>31083387

> telling a history major to learn some history.

I bet you haven't even read the whole book by James Bacque, nevermind the whole heap of actual literature that says how big of a retard he was. All you've had contact with was talking points on Stormfront.

German POWs were hungry and cold in 1945, but that's because everyone was hungry and cold. European agriculture was in ruins, farmhands had all been drafted, the distribution and logistics infrastructure were either bombed to shit by the allies, torn up by the retreating Germans, or both. There wasn't enough food in all of Europe, what food there was can't get to where it was needed.

Once the war was over, the roads were clogged with displaced persons trying to get home, further obstructing food distribution.

The food the allies could get into Europe were distributed to this priority.

1. Members of the occupation army
2. Civilians living in displaced persons camps
3. Civilians not living in provided shelter
4. POWs

To feed the POWs full would mean starving civilians in Germany, the Netherlands, and Belgium, which the allies weren't going to do. So they rationed everyone, with the least rations going to POWs, but still enough for survival.

The actual number of German POWs who died in European camps is around 55,000 out of over 5 million. This mortality rate was the same as that for civilians in the immediate post war.

>>31083547
I thought Finland used Nuggets?

>>31082830
Like the germans treated their POWs any better.

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>>31083547
Could also Germans surrendering to Finns during the war of Lapland 1944-45.

Some 1300 Germans surrendered to Finns during that winter.

>>31083620
Finland generally used m/28 and m/39 rifles which were mostly made with mosin nagant parts but with different barrel and few modifications/improvements.

>>31083675
Sorry, not m/28 but m/27.

>>31082461
Coward

>>31083435
>>31083547
Picture is germans surrendering to red army taken during the battle of moscow

Is this thread about something else besides you cunts calling each other cowards?

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>>31083620
Nuggets in various forms, mausers, springfields and even enfields. We used whatever we could get our hands on. Nagants were preferred since that was the official rifle and thus we had ammunition production for it and could always confiscate more from surrendering and fallen enemy combatants. Mauser were in the second largest quantity since they were delivered with ammunition by the third Reich.

Using Mausers against Germans in lapland war would make same kind of sense using Nuggets against Russians did. Have to look into it.

>>31083203
>it was just a prank, eh

>>31082702
Your common sense

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>>31083702
Interesting since the rifle on the rightest side of the picture is definitely a mauser and not a nugget.

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>>31082971
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLKiAasovtE

>>31083420
>Since Americans treating their POWs well triggers you, have some more.

What you should know here is that you have to make it to battalion HQ to become a POW. Lot of captives were shot by US troops long before that. In Italian front it depended a lot on unit, but 10% to 50% of captives were typically shot before becoming POW's. It's estimated that about 20% of captives on average were killed by US troops before becoming POW's.

In the Pacific theater it was far worse.

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>>31083650
fuck off animie fag

>>31083911
Marines didn't care much for taking nips as prisoners.

>>31082557
>Once you're a POW, you're a drain on the enemy.
mfw you're contributing to the war effort by using way too much toilet paper when crapping in military prison.

>>31083597
No

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>>31082889
>being this much of an armchair general

>>31083911

source plz.

Pacific theater was lot higher for sure, but I raise a heavy eyebrow at anything over 1% in Europe, considering over 6 million Axis soldiers surrendered. Just 1% of that is 60,000.

With how anal the US army was about record keeping 60,000 POW killings do not happen and not cause an investigation.

>>31083911
>In the Pacific theater it was far worse.

> Try to take in surrendering Japs
> They have grenades strapped to their body, ready to take you with them
Gee, I wonder why

>>31083960
More like Nips didn't much care for being taken prisoner

>>31082557

not quite, POWs were allowed and expected to work in non-war critical occupations, mostly farming, since all the farmboys were drafted.

The US and especially Canada made heavy use of POW farm labor.

> The importance of POW labor in Alabama was widely recognized. A farmer in Oneonta who employed prisoner labor happily reported that "I planted only seven acres in tomatoes this year and was afraid they would be wasted in the field. But if we could be assured of the prisoner help, I could plant at least 75 acres next year." The Birmingham News in 1944 noted that without the timely efforts of German soldiers to harvest the peanut fields of south Alabama the estimated $38 million crop would have spoiled in the field. (39)

so if you manage them well, POWs are not an economic drain.

Another story to trigger the resident stormfromt faggot in this thread.

>William Perry operated a small farm near Opelika and served as a Baptist minister. During the summers he employed POWs from Opelika to assist him. As the humid summer days passed the Perry family went out of their way to display Alabama hospitality to the prisoners, even supplying the Germans with beer (somewhat of a surprising action for a Baptist minister). According to an anecdote, Perry understood that "the Germans were great beer lovers, and he wanted them to feel at home." When camp officials rotated the work assignments and assigned the prisoners to another farm, Perry was upset and demanded that "his" prisoners be returned to his farm. Likewise, the prisoners once assigned to Perry's farm also wished to return. The Germans reportedly sabotaged the farm machinery at their new assignment in the hope of getting back to the friendly home. (40)

>>31082706
Never surrender to Sandnigger terrorist groups, chances are, they will find some excuse to execute you such as having a tattoo, or being Christian/Jewish.

If I am ever in a gunfight innasandbox and am hopelessly outnumbered, you bet that I am fighting to my dying breath.

>He only has two ways home: Death or Victory

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>>31083941
>he said, on 4chan.org
here's your (you), buddy

>>31082443
Only if you have some kind of unreasonable attachment to the cause of your employer.

>>31083862
> The army surrendered between 31 January and 2 February 1943.[15] German casualties are 147,200 killed and wounded and over 91,000 captured, the latter including 24 generals and 2,500 officers of lesser rank.[15] Only 5,000 would return to Germany after the war.[1]
Fucking Paulus, probably most shameful surrender in human history

>>31083100
>Their refusal to give up meant the Americans decided to try to force the war to an end with the Atomic Bombs

They just happened to have fucking atomic bombs, if they had the at the start of the war they would have dropped them you better believe it senpai

>>31083616

1% of deads over several years is nothing, especially if feeding and medicine are scarce for everyone.
POWs were obviously well treated.

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you should kill yourself before allowing yourself to be captured.

pic related. he should have an hero'd.

>>31085104
fucking nips should be grateful we didn't wipe out their whole race.

>>31085079
Thats a photo from Bagration, not Stalingrad.

>>31083260
fuck off stormfront retard

>>31084031
Your general tells you to surrender either do it or fucking AWOL.

Your LT says to surrender, you need to make that choice for yourself or unmake it for him...

>>31083311
kill yourself

>>31082461
In Soviet Russia you die either way

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>>31083027
Also never surrender to Ameriniggers especially if your skin is white

>>31085326

Well that number is slightly misleading since POWs were mostly military aged men, a group that has very low mortality rates if a war isn't on.

I'm looking for a source, but for a time, POW mortality was lower than civilian mortality, because Europe had lots of ok people/children who hasn't had enough to ear for years, and were dying in droves from diseases spread by demobilized soldiers.

In this case the Americans did a lot of harm, because the GI's had easy access to penicillin, while civilians didn't even before the war. "Healthy" GI who had beaten a sickness with the help of penicillin still carried it and spread it to the weakened civilians.

>>31083911
>Try to take surrendering Japs
>they explode
oh jee i wonder why things were different in the pacific

>>31085711
Why do they look so white

>>31082706
sauce?

>>31082443
Depends, if you are fighting isis or some other random muslim group its better to go down fighting or kill yourself. If they capture you who knows how will they torture you. God forbid they chop of your head and a member of your family watches that video.

If you are fighting the Western forces you have higher chances of survival if you surrender.

There are some instances where surrendering is the only option like running out of ammo etc.

>>31085711

I remember when I first saw this picture--I visiting my friend's room and her roommate (top middle left) had this picture pulled up on her computer. I didn't think much of it, and I asked her if it was an Old Corps photo of the women's basketball team. I had no idea at the time that it was a political statement.

>>31083616
>the Netherlands

Canadian army fed them once they liberated them.

>>31082693
Par-lay-vouzz Huga duga

>>31082702
>Who decides if the cause is stupid?
the peasant that years later plows up your defiled remains.

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>>31082443
Yes, show me where in codex astartes is surrendering approved.

>>31084097
There is a good This American LIfe podcast about German POWs during the war that was pretty interesting.
Google it

>>31083027
>Don't surrender to North Korea
I don't see this being a problem.

>>31085104
True, but I have a feeling it would have been used on a military target like a island under their control and not a civilian city. Basically by time they got the bombs all that was left to bomb was mainland Japan.

>>31082630

Pretty much this. It's more than black and white.

My great-grandfather was a Luftwaffe mechanic who was taken as a POW during WWII. He said they were treated very well, they worked on a large farm in Oklahoma, were well fed, and were even given beer sometimes.

He actually ended up marrying an American nurse and staying in Oklahoma, three generations later here I am.

>>31083420
>>31083103

see >>31086410

>>31082610
No you fucking retard. We were trained to resist if we were able to not die because "Marines don't surrender."

>>31082765

*uniformed regulars from white countries

>>31082610

you can't really compare a special ops group like marines to regular infantry though

>>31082443
completely depends

>>31086843

>marines
>spec ops

What the fuck?

You're both retarded.

>>31082466
>Never let them take you Alive.
You do not know shit, depends on the enemy. British and American POW camps in WW2 were holiday resorts where they ate well, Soviet and Jap camps were hell on Earth, German camps depended upon your nation, race and religion.

>>31086982
special as in retarded

>>31083091
>Surrender to North Americans unless you're a sandnig

Actually, sandnig prisoners during the Gulf Wars were treated pretty well. As long as you were a uniformed soldier, thus protected under the Geneva Convention. If you're a Haji insurgent, yeah, enjoy gitmo.

>>31082461
Maybe you shouldn't fight for something stupid in the first place.

I know this is easier said than done.

>>31083253
>its almost like the agents in the matrix were stand ins for generic feds.

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>>31082443
To a Western nation? Not really. To anyone else? Might as well go out fighting or eat the business end of a gun.

>>31082905
If you were in North Africa you were deposited into a few camps in the belt buckle of the bible belt, Oklahoma.

Around 1% of the total prisoner population became defectors and stayed in Oklahoma, and usually those were officers.

I'm actually quite familar with the POW camp that was at Okmulgee. Which was a medical hospital for POWs run by POWs. I'm familar because it was turned into a campus of Oklahoma State Univeristy and I go there.

The old mourge houses the culinary arts program...yeah.

There are still sculptures standing by the prisonsers that are at camp Gruber as well... pretty neat.

The old water towers still stand in a few places and are in ruins in others, and all of them were built to a particualr design that is unique as they all used same design and materials; so if you see one of those towers it means it was built for a POW camp.

There were escapes and there were fatalities, but nothing agregious. These dudes knew they were out of the fight.... let me give you an example.

Once in August of 1923 there was a reported escape of two prisoners.... but, not really. The truck driver up and forgot them and when they were found to be missing they scrambled to find them.....walking back to camp with their tools... for real.

From my home there are actually about 4 former camps within a 25 mile radius.

one was a ranch camp were they did ranch work about 8 miles away and were dilligent and liked and actually given extra food, and money for their labor. I know this to be true because I know the current owner and has reciepts for when his father gave them money for work. his dad literally waited until he knew that they were going home and sent them back with cash in their pocket.

Another was a brush camp for light logging and land clearing with a national gaurd rifle range and nunkers. It is on private land, but the owners are fairly cool if you call and ask to walk the property.

They were treated well. Like would go to movies on parole.

>>31082895
You're brutal man, i agree.

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>>31083635
that's the point you bolshevik swine

>>31090888
What point? That germans got exactly the same treatment they had for soviets?

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>>31090896
Read the original question in OP, Ivan.
>Is surrendering a shameful act?
The answer is yes, and it's not a good idea either.

>bolsheviks
>reading comprehension
Pick one.

>>31090914
Then why all that hurpadurp bolshevik soviet animal bullshit? Are you a poltard or something?

>>31082830
>I don't know, you tell me, OP.

1. - Soviet Russia never signed Geneva convention. I don't miss them one bit, after what they did to civilian populace in occupied territory. Fuck the Germans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wola_massacre

2. - What Germans did to Russian POV's was equally evil, like closing thousands on open terrain in hot sun, without a drop of water, and watching them die of dehydration.
Or like using their bodies to fix holes in roads. Literally - dumping them into pot-holes.

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>>31090928
>criticizing Soviet animals
>LOL!!!11 MUST BE A POLTARD

kys

>>31090957
You are not criticizing anyone, you bring unrelated political bullshit in a discussion that totally does not requitre any. Which is typical for poltards.

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>>31090964
I gave an accurate account of the surrendered Germans at Stalingrad. That's it. You wanted to make this political, so here we are, you communist piece of shit

You got your jimmies rustled because I didn't mention that Germans did equally bad things to Soviet soldiers.
Sorry I hurt you feelfeels, maybe mommy can cook you some tendies?

>>31090978
>That's it
Nope. Poltard, also liar.

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>>31090964
I'm the "poltard". What are you gona do about it, Vatnik scum?

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>>31090983
>I've lost the argument and I'm also a retarded commie faggot: The post

>>31090987
Yeah, i see that you are a poltard. Protip: not everyone who disagrees with you is a vatnik.

>>31090993
What argument? I called you a poltard because you are a poltard, there was no argument.

>>31090996
>give accurate account of soldiers who surrendered at Stalingrad in response to OP
>Buttblasted that I called Soviets "animals" and didn't also give accurate description of Soviet POWs who were also treated like shit
>cry poltard like anyone gives a flying fuck
>implying 75%+ of /k/ isn't also /pol/
>exposing yourself as a bolshevik sack of garbage, also /leftypol/
>exposing yourself as a retard that can't read trips and replying to the wrong person
>doing the typical communist cover up bullshit "what argument, there was no argument, there was no mother of the argument, everyone live in happy socialist country where our soldiers do no wrong and live like kings"
>continue to get BTFO

wew jew

>>31090996
>Protip: not everyone who disagrees with you is a vatnik.

No, but everyone who spreads communist propaganda, is. Vatnik, or a Useful Idiot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

>>31082610
errrah boot

>>31086843
>>31087165
there's a reason we use "barney style" as a literal term to explain things

>>31091036
So where exactly did i spread communist propaganda?

>not spraying your mouth silver and dying historic on the fury road
Pussys

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>>31091036
You seem like the type of person who sees communist propaganda everywhere. A bit less aluminium foil under SS cap of your would do wonders.

Surrendering means you have lost. Is it shameful? It depends.
I f you have means to keep fighting, or possibly evade the enemy and make it back to friendly lines, then yes it is shameful.
If there is no way you could fight back, as in no ammo, surrounded and totally cut off, then no ots not shameful. Fighting only gets you killed without furthering your side.
.,,,but shameful or not, you dont surrender to Arabs, Africans, Asians or Hispanics. They will just torture you to death or cut your throat. Only white countries will treat you somewhat okay.

>>31091119
>hollywood, universities and most media is openly marxist
>not communist propaganda everywhere
Yuri Bezmenov would like a word with you.

>>31083260
Proof?

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>>31091151
When they say "Marxism" they don't mean Soviet Marxist-Leninist bolshevism but whatever. Yeah they're "useful" idiots as you put it but most of their ideas isn't Marxist at all are in a direct conflict with many Marxist ideas. As a ex-marxist I should know this.

But the way you seem to be unable to differentiate between "communist" propaganda and occasional use of a communist leaning pic in a conversation and taking it out of context tells me a bit about the state of your paranoia.

When Yuri Bezmenov talked about these things he probably didn't mean you should go paranoid-schizophrenic NatSoc. Just being a free minded individual and aware of this should be quite enough since he really seemed to value American idea of freedom over all.

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>>31091119
"I could shower him with all the data in the world, and he would still refuse to believe the truth.."

Surrendering to ISIS is a mistake I think

>>31082453
Fpbp

>>31091522
Surrendering to a Haji is far worse than death.

I'd rather light myself on fire than let them do it.

>>31082691
By the laws of war, POWs are not allowed to be utilized as slave labour. They have not committed any crimes, and can as such not be punished for anything. You are allowed to hold them idefinitly for the purpose of depriving their nation of them as a resource and you can put them to work for themselves ei as cooks, cleaning their own lodgings, laundry etc
You can have them perform labour, but according to the 3rd geneva convention, this labour must compensated with reasonable pay.

>>31083091
Eh... TODAY I think surrendering to the japanese and chinese would be a perfectly good idea. 70 years ago? Not so much.

>>31083177
In the end, does it even matter?

>>31091694
The moment someone invades my country all the foreign laws about good conduct go down the drain.

>>31091146
>Only white countries will treat you somewhat okay.
Have fun been secret POW in a secret CIA prison.

POWs always work in the enemy favor. If they are no use they simply can be killed. But usually they could be ta least traded for other prisoners/political demands. No POWs - no such leverage, plain and simple. POWs are hostages. Everyone who surrenders helps enemy and therefore commits treason.

>>31084097
The US made a deliberate effort to treat German and Italian POW as humanely as possible in hopes that the Axis powers would reciprocate. The fact that POWs had no realistic hope of escaping back across the Atlantic also meant they didn't have to focus so hard on physical security.

I don't know how much of an effect it had on German and Italian treatment of POWs, but it certainly had an effect on the Axis POWs. Many returned to Europe with cash (earned from working), education, and a pro-American attitude. Others turned right around and came back to the US after seeing the ruins.

I don't know too much about how Japanese POWs were treated. There were never that many of them even after the 2 weeks leave and ice cream rule went into effect.

I notice the stormnigger has gone quiet

>>31085544
We got him back. We don't abandon our own.

>>31092781
KGB Colonel Rudolf Abel escaped punishment because Powers was pussy.

>>31092737
American POW camps on the Western front had something like a 99.8% survival rate.

Italians didn't fight very hard and there wasn't really much animosity between Americans and Italians.

>>31092810
And what would we gain by locking him up for a couple of decades?

>>31092781
>We got him back.
irrelevant. he should have followed his orders and killed himself instead of allowing himself to be captured and interrogated.

>>31092855
Punishment, message for others, potential recruiting into CIA.
>i can be traitor they will send me to Moscow anyway
Quite a message for other gommiescum itching to help soviets.

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>>31085079
Nigger by the time Paulus surrendered they had basically no usable fuel and very little ammunition, food and medical stuff. And the soldiers were most of the time too weak to unload the rare supply planes, many were already executed for cannibalism and most of them suffered from a disease or an affliction or two. They could have potentially broken out weeks earlier when they had the fuel and the morale to do it, but they would still be caught between their original opponents and various army groups being moved around.
Paulus did the right and only thing he could have done. IIRC he was even a decent guy, eating the same as his men until Hitler threw a shitfit and forced him back on officer meals. But the Germans didn't treat Slavic people and their PoWs nicely most of the time, so they got the same shit right back at them. Still, at least these 5000 got out. If they'd soldier on I doubt that many would have survived, they'd just die like sick dogs imo.