Boycott Smith and Wesson.

>>31078266
They just donated like 500k to GOAL to fight the bullshit the AG of MA tried to pull.

>>31078266
for what reason?

What even is that?

>>31078309
Because 16 years later, they still haven't removed the Hillary hole.

>>31078299
They care now that they're going to lose money. Where were they when Mass passed the legislation that allowed the AG to do what she did? I'll buy another Smith and Wesson when they remove the Hillary hole.

>>31078353
That seems like a reasonable position. I won't buy a Ruger rifle since it initially supported assault weapons bans. That is basically unforgivable.

>>31078266
I buy Ruger Revolvers.

That's good enough.

I even wrote Vickers Tactical on the barrel with a felt marker.

>>31078396
Bill Ruger is dead, his sons sell AR and other tactical "assault" weapons now.

>>31078457
Matt?

>>31078457
Have you ever covered a gun in sawdust?

>>31078352
Seconded, fill me in on the "Hillary hole"

>>31079285
It's a gun lock. Uses little key to lock the gun up making it a paper weight.

>>31078486
>>31079259
That was a ruger 1911
But I wouldnt put it past him to do it to a ruger wheelgat

Are keys to the Hillary hole universal, or are they unique to the individual gun?

>>31078266
Again? They went bankrupt the last time. Whole new ownership now.

>>31079325
I would think that they would be universal.
It just meant as a gun lock to keep kids from shooting each other and keep dindus confused as to why their stolen colt fowty-fi wont go bang.

>>31079285
Just an internal lock. Idea is to stop kiddies and retards from playing with it and becoming a statistic. Reality is it just pisses people off and (very rarely) breaks / jams, leaving you with a paperweight til you can fix it.

>>31079325
They are arr the same. Which is probably a good thing

>>31079304
And what is bad about that? Get home and lock gun so little brat doesn't ventilate himself. I don't get why op is so autistic over it.
So are we going to boycott Walther because the PK380 has a key lock on it.

>>31078353
>>31078266

They have already started removing them

>>31078353
>Where were they when Mass passed the legislation that allowed the AG to do what she did?
Owned by an entirely different company. They were owned by British-based Tompkins PLC at that time. The President of S&W disagreed with their British ways, left the company, started his own company, and then bought S&W for a tenth of what Tompkins had originally bought it for.

>>31079350
What happens when you need to use the gun and have to fumble with a tiny key.
A gun safe or a cable lock also works and doesnt need to be integrated into the gun.
There's also the rare chance of it breaking and locking up the gun for good.

>>31079350
It can break, it an extra part that can fail. That's pretty concerning

>>31079402

worse, it's an extra part whose failure can potentially result in the gun being inoperable. Completely unacceptable.

>>31079417
The Hillary hole mechanism can be removed, (their are youtube how to's)

>>31079389
Then just don't use it. You can't break what you don't finger fuck tard.

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>>31079567

>>31079389
Unlock it when your at home and it's within reach, lock it when you're away from home and your kid can get it's hands on it.

Why not just buy a different revolver? There are companies besides S&W that make them, you know. You faggots sound like fudds who want revolvers for some retarded reason but also hate democrats even though fudd-types are the most likely to vote for gun legislation that ends up bringing us shit like this.

>>31079304
>>31079347
Why in the fuck would you need a lock on a gun? That's what safes, locked cases, and locked cabinets are for.

>>31079583
>lock it when you're away from home and your kid can get it's hands on it.
>leaving a loaded gun in a kids reach
Fuck you I hope you step on a Lego barefoot.

>>31079389

What happens if it's just one gun in your collection that's primarily a target piece, not purchased for martial use, and you don't give a fuck?

>>31078396
Forget about it...Bill Ruger, spinning in his grave as he may be, is dead. It's a different company nowadays. Whether or not he may approve is irrelevant. The company is going in the right direction now. They listen to their customers.

>>31079350
its on Every Single Goddamn One of their revolvers

>>31079567

nope.

RSO here, i've had to go fuck with at least 3 of our smiths because the fucking hillary hole engaged while people were shooting.

>>31079644
And this is why I won't buy a smith...they shot their own dicks off by putting the lock in and I refuse to buy another NEW gun until it's removed.

>>31078266
I'm buying an M&P 9 tomorrow to compliment my 15. ;-)

>>31079684
M&p 9 's are great annon...my buddy has one...I've shot the shit out of it and highly recommend it. I just hate the lock on the new j frames.

>>31079684
>>31079703
triggers are shit and the apex one doesnt have a good reset

had a prelock 586 from 1983. god damn was that a nice trigger. if i buy any more S&W they'll be prelock

>>31079703
Good, I'm going to try and get Cabelas to come down ~ $50 and then that plus another $20 coupon could result in a decent deal.

>>31079717
Agreed all around...the m&p 9 with safety supposedly has a better trigger than w/o...Fuddlore or not I can't say...the one with safety is just ok.

>>31079718
What are you paying out the door..just curious?

>>31079733
if everything goes right I'll be paying around $460, which I have trouble beating online and especially with FFL transfer fees.

>>31079745
Really?...what state are you in?

>>31079755
Delaware, all or the small shops in my area have basically united against doing FFL transfers from wholesalers because it cuts into their business too much.

>>31079759
Ah...see I wondered...that's above msrp...I feel your pain...my uncle lives there and wants to move. Just checked my lgs...389.00 before tax here

>>31079772
is this for the shield or the full size we're talking? I'm looking at getting the double stack.

>>31079777
Yeah its for the shield...single stack 9

>>31079597
To be fair I'm happy I can lock my car doors even through I have a locked garage at home

>>31079784
I hear ya...Delaware is a nice state to live just not a great state for us shooters...I'm land locked in Iowa so I know what it's like to be frustrated as well!

>>31079790
It's okay, I can shoot trap at a taxpayer funded range for $4, and I can own all the scary salt weapons I want. The only thing that blows is getting a CCW.

>>31079799
Yeah no problems with any of that here...what's your most bullshit gun law? CCW is a cakewalk here.

>>31079806
To get a CCW you need five non-relative references to say you are a good citizen and take an ad out in the local paper (of course the internet killed all them so now you have to take an ad out in the statewide Gannet subsidiary for $250). Of course there are fees for classes and an application on top of that so all in all it's a $600 process. "Shall issue"

>>31079824
>Take out an ad...

What? For what purpose?

>>31079824
Christ almighty...your kidding annon...In Iowa all I had to do was literally not be a felon...provide proof I'd taken a firearms safety course...which I'd taken at 12 yrs of age during hunters saftey...and I was approved. God help you sir!

>>31079830
That blew my mind too...!?!?

>>31079830
How is this "shall issue"!?

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>>31078266
>take off sideplate
>pick out lock mechanism
>gun is now fine

>>31078396
Bill's fucking dead and they've already long since amended for his sins.

>>31079567
It's not super common, but it has happened that the lock has broken when the gun is shot, rendering the gun inoperable until you take it apart.

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>>31079583
A cable lock is literally 1000% better for that.

>>31080211
>>take off sideplate
>>pick out lock mechanism
>>gun is now fine
On one hand you could do that.
On the other hand if I bought a steel framed pistol, I wouldn't want a worthless structural weakening hole in it that's another source for malfunction causing debris to get in, especially if I'm putting down what I consider a lot of money on it.

>>31080248
Fair enough, but supposedly they're being phased out, and there's plugs you can get for it to keep dirt out if you have a hole.

I don't think it's a big deal for structural integrity though, once you remove the lock mechanism, all it is, is a hole in the sideplate, not exactly a key structural point.

>>31080261
I don't know I wouldn't say boycott them but the hole and pulling parts out of it is just very off putting to me. S&W does look like it has some good stuff but I can't really see myself not leaning preference brand wise towards something else over it if I wanted a new handgun.

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Severe autism ITT. First off the lock is optional for every model though you'd probably have to order the non lock version. Second it doesn't interfere with anything, you don't have to use it.

>>31079790
Fellow Iowabro! Where at? Just north of Davenport here.

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Just remove it yourself if it bugs you that much

pic related.

>>31080372
>the lock is optional for every model
Yeah that's not true at all.

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Yeah fuck smith and wesson!

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>>31081460
Fuck em good!

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>>31081465
I mean who the fuck do they think they are making us remove 3 screws and a few small parts in order to remove or replace that fucking safety?!

It's an outrage! I mean what the fuck do they think, that you can just leave it unlocked?!

>>31079830
MY NAME IS JOHN DOEFUCKER AND I AM BUYING A GLOCK 30 AND I AM A SCARY BABYKILLING MURDERER HERES MY HOUSE ADDRESS IF YOU WANT TO COME FUCK MY WIFE

>>31081214
How?

>>31078266
You know what's funny? That lockmis there because of boycotting.
>be 2000
>S&W (like many other manufactures) believes Australian of not U.K. style gun control inevitable
>cuts deal with Clinton administration and willingly enters into HUD agreement spearheaded by Hillary Clinton
>http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/sw-hud.html
>gun owners pissed, boycott S&W
>sales fall, S&W goes bankrupt
>S&W bought out by Safe-T-Hammer corporation, which was trying to sell S&W their internal lock
>Safe-T-Hammer now puts lock on every S&W revolver they make
>ironically, everyone calls it the "Hillary Hole"

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>>31082338
>remove sideplate
>pull out the lock mechanism
>put sideplate back
Gone. You'll still have the hole there, but you'll never have that microscopic risk of of the gun locking up (personally I just have it removed out of principle).

Here's a guy removing a lock from his gun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVPYgohVCNM

If the hole still being there bothers you, there exists plugs and what not to fill that space, various people make various kinds.

>>31081475
>>31081465
>>31081460
Look carefully class, this is what we call "post purchase rationalization"

>>31080372
>First off the lock is optional for every model though you'd probably have to order the non lock version
Have you ever even "ordered" a gun? Mistakes happen, you can easily get a mixed up order and there are no returns or trade ins for "whoops wrong gun model".
You're probably going to be out hundreds of dollars or you're stuck with something you don't want.

>>31081214
>Just buy a glock, and replace parts you don't like on it with non-glock parts
Perfection

>>31083879
Seriously when you buy a firearm you can do whatever you want with it, if there is a problem with the FRAME of all the freaking parts why would you buy that? Barrels sights attachments magazine/cylinder nearly everything can get modified except the frame, you start messing with the frame and it fucks up all the other stuff it holds together. Ever heard the saying, measure twice cut once? the cut of that things jib is fundamentally fucked before it gets off the sales floor. That's not even just a little hole in your frame, most gun frames are designed with all the moving components to take up space and move around, when you take out parts you have a bloated design that isn't functioning the way it was intended with no way to fill in where that stuff was with something other than malfunction. Look at this video >>31083688 How much extra metal got cut away inside rather than just the little hole you can see into? You can take it out doesn't change those guns lowered their manufacturing standards for a feature that is intended to not make the product work. You can take out the part that makes it not work but it still has a really big potential in a lot of ways of being inferior to a design without it.

>>31084014
>a problem with the FRAME of all the freaking parts
It's not even that, it's a hole in the sideplate (which comes off), and there's some small parts attached to it.

The sideplate has little bearing on the structural integrity of the frame of the gun.

>>31084136
What, the side plate is on the right side of the pistol. The frame is usually the left side. Take a look at it again. It didn't all fit into the side plate.
I'm not saying it's a big deal or I wouldn't buy a s&w under any circumstances, but it's not a combat weapon. It's not designed from the ground up to be a combat weapon anymore.
It's really not going to be high up on my list of weapons to buy because weapons are for combat.

>>31079784
By that logic, you are prone to engaging your firearm's integrated lock and leaving it in publicly accessible locations when you're away from home?

Idiot.

>>31084172
>but it's not a combat weapon
To be fair, revolvers haven't been combat weapons for several decades.

>>31078353

But they have... and continue to do so.

Started on the J frames, now on many K frames.

>>31078299
Huh, well that is reason enough to save for the Governor instead of the Judge. Fucking NRA gave up on my homestate like jackasses despite collecting millions of dues.

>>31084650
I don't care about what year it is. Grandpa carried a revolver. Dad carried a semi. I'm convinced driving a bullet is good enough if the thing can drive a bullet. Grandpa sold his combat revolver for reason other than combat, he didn't buy one with a magazine and wouldn't buy into this type of S&W either for any other purpose. It worked for him when it was for combat, doesn't work now. It's just a market niche. If that's what they're floating on I really can't say I'd buy into it. I prefer newer weapons over older but some of those collector pieces worked because they were built for combat and nothing else.

Reminder that s&w also designed the first smart gun. They easily lick more boots than any other domestic gun maker.

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>was going to get a performance center revolver
>instead got two rhinos for nearly the same price
based wops

>>31078486
>>31079259
Not Matt, but I saw the Video after tge shitstorm at shotshow Vickers caused and seeing how I only have Ruger Revolvers, I designated my .45LC/.45ACP Redhawk to be my Vickers Tactical Operational Operatir Revolver...after all, it takes two times of ammo, rimmed cowboy revolver ammo and semi auto rimless ammo!

>>31079308
Bring a Califag, I wish I could get a Ruger 1911.

>>31085965
You seem confused. Not by other commentors but yourself. You try to straddle the "old stuff just works" line and the "combat relevance is everything" trope.

People buy guns for fun, a .22 pistol is great to learn on. Even the best are fairly unreliable though and combat useless.

Also while grandpa may have killed plenty of gernans or koreans with a wheelgun, they are not combat relevant anymore. There's a reason why marines don't use trapdoor springfields... Despite them being deadly and combat proven.

You are angry over S&W locks not because they personally are an affront to your combat readiness, but because they represent change in something you didn't want to see it in.

You project death of the platform, in combat arms, into that tiny lock.

>>31080261
>but supposedly they're being phased out

I've been hearing people say that since about 2003.

>>31087472
A lot of performance center guns lack them.

>>31081060
not that guy, but a third Iowan here
unfortunately im in the far south east meth infested corner

>>31078266
This is one of the many reasons I went with a zastava M83/93 as my wheelgat.

>>31087540
They're removing the Hillary Holes and just donated a massive amount to the better NRA in Massachusetts. Sounds like sour grapes from a poorfag.

>>31086024
Wasn't that Colt?

>>31087524
As opposed to the south west meth infested corner, or the north east meth infested corner, or the north west meth infested corner?

>>31086516
You should try shooting some .45 Super in one of those, that'd be like a higher end load of .45 Colt, but it'd still be interesting to see if it could take it.

Do you think it'd take .45 Winmag?

>>31087568
The poorness was part of it, but I didn't want something I would cry over if I lost my innadessert gear in a flash flood. Being able to buy it with left over cash from selling my textbooks was a plus though.

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>>31087643
Can't you get old police trade-in wheelgats for reasonably cheap these days?

You could probably find a Model 10 or Model 64 with some holster wear for relatively cheap, with just some +P .38 Specials it should be a good enough beater or backpack gun.

>>31087540
Didn't even know Zastava made wheelguns.
I do like their cheap autos though, M70A is a pretty solid economy gun.

>>31086050
The small one is totally useless except for maybe confusing someone when you draw it

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There's no 80% kit for a revolver as far as I know.

How do I build my own?

==FUCK SMITH & FAGSON ==

==I WILL NEVER BUY A HANDGUN FROM A COMPANY THAT SOLD OUT TO THE CLINTONS==

==S&W ARE TRAITOROUS SHITS==

>>31086050
>dont talk to me or my wifes son again

>>31087908
Gee, guess you better not buy from Colt or Ruger either, to name some.

>>31087969

I don't because I'm not a sell-out cuck like some of you faggots around here.

Fuck S&W
Fuck Ruger
Fuck Colt

>>31087986
Kek salty poorfags are adorable.

>>31088060

Richfag here, but that doesn't mean I'm selling out. Never give your money to cuck gun companies that don't support gun rights.

>>31087986
XD fag detected

>>31088206

If I don't like S&W for being sellouts and having a hillary hole, what makes you think I'd buy an XD with a faggot grip safety. Are you serious?

>>31080211
Bill Ruger kept ruger from releasing factory +20 round magazines to common folk well before the AWB, it doesn't seem fair to say he was only pro-AWB because it made his rifle more desirable. The AWB seems to actually align with his personal beliefs. There are other example too. He certainly supported some form of gun control.

I'll gladly support Ruger now that he is dead and the company is moving in a much different direction.

Also people seem to forget there already was a real movement to boycot smith and wesson in the 90s and whatever the reason S&W really fell out a favor for a few years there, there stock tanked and they've never seemed to regain their position of respect in the gun community. Still though S&W has also moved in a different direction and I am cautious optimistic about where they're headed, though there always seems to be multiple things about all their modern and current offerings that I don't like.

>>31088080
cuck is the perfect term for a gun company that supports gun control. Yes, please fuck those I should care about.

>>31088284
>Still though S&W has also moved in a different direction and I am cautious optimistic about where they're headed
Their ARs are pretty fine.
The M&P pistols are nice.

I always liked the 3rd gen autos.

>>31087641
Yeah, it's pretty bad.

>>31079553
You shouldn't have to remove it in the first fucking place.

>>31087097
I'm not angry I'm just saying it's not a weapon it's a dangerous toy designed specifically not to work. I don't buy guns for that and it loses a lot of it's collectors value on top of it.

>>31086050
bottom one should have been black

>>31078353
Hillary hole??

>>31090032
So you don't buy 1911s with grip safeties either then, or any police trade in semis with magazine disconnects? Because both hamper operation far more often than the locks.

>>31090432
>Because both hamper operation far more often than the locks.
That's an opinion. Really grasping at straws with that those examples.
I tend to buy things for a specific function if you wanna know what I buy. That's none of your business unless you want to make an offer to buy it from me desu.

>>31090458
I've never heard of a s&w lock failure.

I've heard of 1911 failures due to weak grips from hand injury. I know the problem is 40x worse for XDs, being the trash design they are.

I've fucking had magazine disconnect failures happen to me. Gun was a waltger police trade in. A finger bumped the mag release paddle under recoil. Unseated the mag 1mm. In normal circumstances it would have jammed after firing yes, but in this case it didn't even fucking do that. Round in the chamber and I'm just dead on the line. Terrifying...

>>31090485
This is to add that while many hillary hole smiths (performance center stupid long barrels, .22s, governors) are fairly novelties that a hillary hole does little to detract from...

1911s, HS2000s and all those mag disconnect cop guns... Are fucking meant to defend your life and designed for that purpose. Yet are more cucked.

>>31090485
>I've heard of 1911 failures due to weak grips from hand injury
Limp wrist without hand injury tends to cause malfunctions in all slide bolt carrier type pistols, were both your hands hurt? Just shoot with the other one. One of the nice things about revolvers is if you shoot lefty it doesn't eject hot brass at you like most right hand designed semi's do.

>>31090523
I was going to write something about mag disconnects but I don't really think it's bad of a safety feature I really wouldn't steer clear of it like I would something with a hole lock since it might have some practical uses.

>>31079824
what state is this again?

>>31090523
You have horribad ADD focus.

Hillary hole
>small chance of mechanical failure causing a bricked gun

Grip safeties/mag disconnects
>same fucking mechanical risks to fail into a bricked state, plus means of operator failure on top of that.

Show me how you can fumble a gun lock on...

It's not a case of bad vs not bad, but bad vs worse.

>>31090546
>It's not a case of bad vs not bad, but bad vs worse.
I'm honestly not even saying it's bad. I'm just saying the thing isn't right for my interests.

>>31090536
Maryland and Massachusetts i believe

>>31090432
Magazine disconnects can be disabled pretty easily, most of the time.

>>31090533
Magazine disconnects are for retards though, just clear your gun like a normal human being.

They make your trigger worse and if you need to shoot your gun without your magazines you're shit out of luck.

>>31090401
America's next President, everybody

>>31078266
There aren't many other choices for a good 8 shot 357s though.

Ruger pls

>>31091251
>if you need to shoot your gun without your magazines you're shit out of luck.
but my hi-capacity hollowpoints! Why would you use a weapon if it can't hold as many rounds as possible in a magazine?!!?!?!!?OBSOLETE!!!!
DELET THIS

>>31078266
Op is a faggot.

>>31088246
Thats the spirit CZ for life. "the only gun company nobody hates."

>>31091906
wtf i hate guns now

>>31091701
There are circumstances where I could see having to shoot the gun without the magazine inserted.

There aren't really any circumstances where I can see myself needing the gun not to shoot the round it has chambered when the magazine isn't there, which can't be solved by me not putting my finger on the trigger.

People who argue for magazine disconnects are the same kind of people who complain that a Glock is bad because it has no manual safety.

>>31091929
>There aren't really any circumstances where I can see myself needing the gun not to shoot the round it has chambered when the magazine isn't there, which can't be solved by me not putting my finger on the trigger.

The original intent of the magazine disconnect was to give the shooter an easy way render the gun inoperable if someone got too close and startled wrestling for control of the gun. In that one context it's a neat idea, but it's worthless in every other more likely scenario.

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>>31087945
>>31090342
I,ve gotchu family

>>31079389
its just a torx head allan key, nothing unique or special about it. it is mainly for child proofing.

>>31091298
>implying

>>31095001
>implying Drumpf

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>>31087708
>Can't you get old police trade-in wheelgats for reasonably cheap these days?

Not really.

>>31092950
>that fucking line
>every time

If I owned one of those I would have to do something about that. It is an aesthetically pleasing gun besides that one thing but it would drive me insane seeing it every time I even glanced at the gun.

>mfw that line