China built a better plane for cheaper in a shorter time. How?

>Better
Because they stole a shit ton of research data from other countries.

>>31057352

Does that not make them even better? using enemy resources to further your objective?

>>31057364
No, it proves they have no original ideas.

>RD-33 engine
>Worse maintenance than an F-16

>J31
>existing

Yea, F35 sure is scared by a pathetic engine and non existent aircraft

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>>31057340

J-31 has to name a few

>Extremely poor build quality
>Aircraft computers made from consumer level electronics
>Plastic screws and zip ties to hold down essential parts
>1 in 4 failure rate for engines
>Extremely dangerous to fly past mach 1
>Paint peels off at high speed
>Stress cracks and failures in high g turns
>Both engines don't actually produce same thrust
>High throttle melts wires in and around engines
>Poor fuel quality
>Fuel leaks
>Oil leaks
>Cockpits that don't always stay pressurised
>Not actually multi role
>Range only around 800km
>What is copyright infringement lel?
>Just as deadly to the pilot as chinese made escalators and elevators

Just like everything else china makes, it's a death trap. It's like soviet tech during the cold war. As for the F-35 all the problems will be fixed after you dump more money on the problem.

>>31057376
how does that matter? now they have all that USA has and that is enough to put up a resistance or neutralise US's advantage. isn't it?

>>31057388
>all opinions. no facts

post dismissed

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>>31057426
>now that they have all that the USA has
what?

>>31057426
They don't have anywhere close to the amount of American nukes, destroyers, submarines, carriers, or aircrafts so no they don't have all that USA has. Nevermind that a lot of their stuff are of questionable quality and of Soviet legacy.

>>31057426
>>31057437
Go away Zhang Wei, you're not wanted here.

>>31057340
J-31 isn't even in developement for the air force.

>>31057446
You said, they stole everything. Now in the world of war stealing is not a vice. its a virtue. This is not your college exam.

So why are you guys treating stealing as something that should be looked down upon?

Theres no good boy points for honestly designing something. So I feel to see the obsession with this aspect.

>>31057461
im new to the thread i didn't say shit.. i think i understand now that you meant with regards to fighter technology and not just everything in general. which is still false, just less batshit insane.

>>31057452
Agree. Yes China as a whole is inferior. No questions. I'm asking about this particular plane

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3500km range; 1200-1500km combat radius; max speed M2.2 and max supervise M1.4; RCS 0.01m2.

J-31 is also completly dead. We will see a navalized version of the J-20 and another already announced VTOL aircraft

>>31057484
>I'm asking about this particular plane
Your particular plane doesn't exist yet and it has a shitty engine. We can speculate all day about something imaginary being better than USA.

>>31057501
Plane doesn't exist.

>What is pic

>>31057491
Are you seriously buying that RCS 0.01m2 meme

God everyone's retarded here. Its like Chinese saying DF-21 can kill carriers anywhere

>>31057525
What meme?

>>31057517
> Plane doesn't exist.

>>What is pic
>What is irrelevant prototype
It could be a flying piece of wood for all we know

>>31057491
China, let's sit down for a moment.

I know you got fucked for the last few hundred years. You fell out of relevancy and now you are sacrificing nearly everything in order to catch up. For such a long lived nation who are among the oldest civilizations in history, why are you not establishing good foundations in order to become rock solid in the long run? Cranking out ships and planes at break neck speeds is impressive, but how will you maintain such a force if your economy is still shaky and your support and personel so untested?

Take your fucking time, holy shit.

>>31057491
Navalized J-20 would provide China with an aircraft that would carry quite the big kinetic adventage over the F-35B and C.

>>31057535
It would also be smaller than the Su-35 in service.

>>31057340
OP, even if all of these are true and there are no issues with the plane, all you have is a plane that is only marginally better than the F-35 in some aspects that might not even apply (can't really apply a superior thrust to weight advantage if your plane can't handle the Gs that the enemy can, and the top speed might not matter if your afterburner starts overheating like hell after a certain amount of time), and that's not taking into account avionics, sensors, and stealth.

Also
>Master of one >> Jack of all trades

There's a reason that just about every military that matters has been trending towards multirole airframes with a few air superiority fighters sprinkled in.

The J-20 aircraft is a good base for a long living family of aircraft based on that design.

There isn't a place for the J-31 outside of maybe becoming a modern FC-1 for countries like Pakistan.

>>31057491
>We will see a navalized version of the J-20 and another already announced VTOL aircraft
>navalized
They can't even navalize their J-15 and their carrier isn't CATOBAR. That giant Su-27 sized aircraft isn't going to carry shit off a carrier.

>>31057534
WE SUPER POWER. WE NO NEED CLEAN WATER OR AIR. WE BUY IT.

>China built a better

Stopped reading there.

>>31057560
>no new IP

>>31057529
No words other than USAF quoting that numbers. No independent assessment done.

Exactly like how except Chinese army boasting about DF 21 nobody else believes it.

Seeing that /k/ was intelligent enough to dismiss the DF 21 rightly so, I don't see why you close your brain to American propaganda alone?

0.01m2 is 2 cellphones side by side. ITs plain stupidity to believe the American claim

>>31057573
>American propaganda

It also has a tactical smokescreen from it's shitty engines, obvious bait/.50cent thread, sage

>>31057340
>2 engine >> 1 engine
one properly built western engine > two cold-war relics

>Master of one >> Jack of all trades
Fuck off sprey

>2200 km/h >> 1930 km/h
Top speed matters very little especially when the difference is 270 km/h

>1200 km range >> 1150km range
but that 50km difference will be rendered irrelevant by the fact that the F-35 will almost always have access to a better tanker network than the J-31

>Thrust to weight: 1 >> .87
I'm fairly sure the .87 figure has been disproven. Either way, that matters little when turning fights have been rendered irrelevant by modern WVR tactics
>200kN Thrust >> 190 kN
this 10 kN difference is probably made up for by underperforming slavshit engines

take your bait and go, faggot

>>31057712
No real arguments there m'lady. Its all you sperging out. show me those numbers aren't better. Because you cant. numbers cannot lie.

>>31057340
Can it take off from a carrier? If not, then F-22 is more its counterpart.

>>31057770
Can F 35 A take off from a carrier? Because I was comparing only those two

>>31057770
Chinese have the J15/Su33 for carrier operations which would kick the F35's butt anyday

>>31057352
The US should leak them shit designs for weapons and see if they copy it

>>31057811
You didn't answer his question

>>31057573
>American claim
>Clearly written in chinese

wot

>>31057720
Numbers don't lie, the argument is on whether they matter. A 50km combat radius difference is almost entirely insubstantial except in the most extreme hypothetical edge cases, the top speed of an aircraft when it's at it's flight ceiling pushing afterburners in a dive is a rare situation, and thrust to weight by itself does not matter as much for modern fighter tactics.

>>31057388
Feel free to provide any source to support your claims. Not even entirely trolling, I do wish to read it.

>>31057847
>Comrade Zhao, a crashed UAV from the US had plans for their prototype anti-stealth missile for some reason!
>It only has a range of 10nm, and has to flood the air with radar waves to acquire the target, but it obviously must be the key to destroying American air superiority!
>laughingF-35s.jpg

>>31057491
Well, the J-20 is the best thing that could happen to the F-22.

A J-20 operating within its supercruise window can't be intercepted by a F-35 just with moderate changes of its route.

Sure, it sucks that there are like 100 F-22 combat ready at she same somewhere on the world, so China could outmatch American assets quite badly when the J-20 gets combat ready in 2018/2019.

>>31057911
China did in 70 years what took usa 300 years. Keep laughing while they whiz past you. by the time you are about to die the world is going to be a very different place.

Zhao would be mocking Chad in 2040. haha

>>31057352
>>31057376
>>31057461
Chair Forcer here

Used to work at Centcom, when MacDill had it's AirFest now and then I would have to work as a security forces augmentee for it. Basically had to spend the weekend standing around making sure no civilians entered the clean side of the base or hopped a fence towards a plane or any stupid shit.

Anyways, there ALWAYS, ALWAYS would be chinese there. We would get briefed on how to deal with foreigners asking questions among other things, but the chinese were the most prevalent. It would always either be a family, or a single old man. The family would be a male and female, both in their 30's or 40's, with a boy. Would obviously be native chinese, could tell with the accent. There would be multiple families always walking around, dressed similar, similar mannerisms, etc. You would be able to tell something was off just by how they were, they weren't normal tourists. They always had similar camera bags and similar camera equipment with them though. And they'd all basically do the same thing. After circling around the entire air fest twice, they would take their camera out and start photographing the newer air craft. They would never take pictures of the old aircraft or the legacy ones, only the ones currently being used, or new ones like if the F-35 prototypes were showcased. They would spend close to 30 minutes photographing, then theyd go up and ask the augmentees about the aircraft. "Is that bag supposed to be on the engine? What's that symbol mean? So why is the wing like that? Do you know why the glass is curved in that way?" And they'd go from person to person asking the same things in just different ways.

If you watched you'd see some of the "families" meet up with eachother and talk before dispersing again.

Overall it was really weird and sort of unsettling. It was always the chinese though. Or at least they were the easiest to pick out. We always got told about other nationalities but I never saw ruskies

>>31057925
Because they had 300 years of research to copy, now they've caught up and they don't have anything else to copy so they're trying their own designs that are failing horribly

>>31057501
How do you know, that the engine is "shitty"?

>>31057940
Which designs failing horribly?

Is the amount of American butthurt real or just some non Americans play that role?

I can't believe that people getting that defensive about stuff like that.

>>31057938
Interesting. thanks for the anecdote.

>>31057426
>neutralise
>***AmericanPatriot***

Yeah, okay pal.

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>>31057938
>"Is that bag supposed to be on the engine?"
I don't know
>"What's that symbol mean?"
I don't know
>"So why is the wing like that?"
I don't know
>"Do you know why the glass is curved in that way?"
I don't know, and if I did I wouldn't tell you. Go bother someone else.

>>31057938
I participated in a military excercise with a lot of countries in Germany. There was also this chinese guy but he acted real weird. We joked about him being a spy.

>>31057951
It's a combo of both. The anti-US side consists of butthurt Chinese/Russian nationalists, libertarians desperately trying to convince themselves that you don't need tax money for a modern military, and thinly veiled stormfags praying for the fall of western culture. The pro-US side is ultra-patriotic Amerifats, kiddies who think stealth fighters are 'cool', and idiots who think more money automatically equals better weapons.

>>31057940
So you do appreciate the critical role copying plays. So its something necessary and nothing to be ashamed of.

And regarding failure, You do realise failure is the easiest way to learn right?

Ill tell you this. 5 years back the only electronic companies were Samsung, htc, apple, LG and Sony.

In the five years since in the developing world with over 4 billion people except Samsung everyone became irrelevant.

Now we have brands like Huawei, ZTE, Xiaomi, oppo, meizu, vivo, Gionee, LeEco, one plus who have displaced the old guard and have gained trust.

8 new mega companies.

Guess whats common among them all? Every single one is a Chinese company. No one buys LG, Panasonic, Sony,HTC anymore.

They started as ripoffs and are now established players. They haven't entered western markets due to IP problems but out here in the east they are unimaginably huge.

Think of all the Japanese companies today, China will be like 5 x Japan in the near future.

They have a plan and its sound and its showing results.

Why come up with something yourself if you can just copy?
https://youtu.be/ac18wj5GbNw

>>31058023
>spaces out his post so it's big and attention grabbing
Wewlad

Anyways, part of the problem with those chinese companies? Huawei broke into the mainstream in the west. And guess what happened? It was found they were spying on their users with malicious firmware.

They might be big in china, but that's because they can spy on the chinese people without repurcussions. As soon as they get into the west and try that its found out and everyone loses their trust in them. Huawei is the only one that's broken into the west, and no one buys their phone's anymore. You know why? Because no one trusts them now. That's the problem with chinese companies. Even if they stop trying to rip off their consumers they still try to spy on them and use them.

People trust LG and Samsung and Sony and HTC because they don't essentially attack their users. People don't trust ZTE and Xiaomi because they know they're chinese companies, and they know that means
>1. Sub par products
>2. Malicious actions against their users

>>31057376
Boo-hoo, timmy copied me. What's the matter? Too dumb to think of something original.

News flash faggot countries steal off each other all the time. Google all teh shit the NSA has been stealing from foreign nations. They committed corporate espionage against allies.

The name of the game is steal their tech and improve it. Don't blame china because they're world class at it. Literally the best in terms of industrial espionage. "Don't hate the player, Hate the game".

>>31057388
>Just as deadly to the pilot as chinese made escalators and elevators
Fucking lost.

>>31058023

Is this before or after they get caught cooking with sewer 'oil'?

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>>31057446
UNHAND HER DAN BACKSLIDE!!

we already have f22's

gtfo if you think an f35 is better than those. f22's will never be sold overseas

>>31058023
The problem with copying technology is that it doesn't give you the resources to create new designs when you run out of stuff to copy. It's not that China is physically incapable of creating new industries, but they have zero idea of how to do so. China also has significant cultural barriers against innovation, more severe than Japan's were even. The iPhone, despite being built in China, could have never been designed there because no one in China is really looking at what consumers will need or want in the future. They are so focus with the latest tech out of the west they ignore any domestic innovations they might have. It's the same with computers, cars, aircraft, and eventually weapons. Copying everything in sight doesn't give China the ability to look ahead.

>>31058023
If you had ever dealt with the Chinese, you would know that the last thing you do is trust them in business.

>>31058047
AS if Android and windows aren't spying. Whats the point. All companies spy for their government.

I'm not sure if you have use the xiaomi products in last one year. They are hugely improved and are selling out like theres no tomorrow. Every 2 days they go out of stock. They have a huge fan following in my country and Hugo barra is treated like steve jobs out here. Its like apple fan boys, except here you can see why they are fanboys. Cheap as shit phones yet quality hardware. Xiaomi isn't the worlds most valuable startup for nothing.

Its a matter of time before they expand their markets and when they do come youll see why they are liked.

And regarding losing data yo should be afraid of your own govt not the Chinese. Unless you are dealing with classified stuff its better the Chinese have your data because they cant prosecute you but your govt can and will because your country's law are enforced only by your government.

If you are dealing with classified stuff ofcourse you want to buy only the NSA backdoored products.

Anyway the relevant point is if they can catch up here no reason they wont catch up everywhere. Chinese military budget 1/3 rd of USA and a dollar in china goes much farther than in USA. So all that means very soon they are going to start showing results in the military world

>>31057340
>F-35 enters development in 2001
>J-31 enters development in 2002

>F-35A achieves IOC in 2016, with nearly airframes produced
>J-31 IOC years away with maybe two airframes produced

>>31058101
I honestly pity you for being so misinformed.

Its really saddening.

>>31058106
Goldfein might be a jew but he gives me a lot more hope than Gen "Pretty Darn Good" Welsh

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>>31058079
it's like the art of war

pieces of vomit believing in a china man when it comes to war are fucking absurd. why the fuck would anyone trust a chink when it comes to war?

>>31058106
I didn't know used car salesmen can get job at air force.

>>31058062
after. Just like the americans.

>During the 18th and 19th centuries, as the United States shifted from an agricultural to an industrial economy and urbanization disconnected people from food production, the debasement of food for profit became rampant. Milk was often watered down and colored with chalk or plaster—substances which were also added to bulk up flour. Lead was added to wine and beer, and coffee, tea and spices were routinely mixed with dirt, sand or other leaves. Although a number of laws forbade harmful substances from being added to food, they were tough to enforce since there were no dependable tests to prove the existence of pollutants.

shady shit happened during industrialisation in literally every country ever

>>31058129
That user car salesman's killed more people than you have.

>>31058076
You cant innovate until you have caught up. perfect copying first. Sell similar products first.

Once parity is attained now improve. Parity has been attained in some industries while others are catching up.

Check out the Huawei P9 with Leica camera. That's some shit no established players have yet. Check out Lenovo Tango. Again the first of its kind in the world

Tell me they aren't innovations.

Obviously military is harder and will take longer.

>>31058079
Billions of people are trusting them and hence they are some of the most rapidly growing companies. Westerners obviously will take longer because westerners see the Chinese as "different" people. But you will. Just like you trust Sony and Samsung you will trust LeEco and xiaomi

>>31058161
From what I heard, the domestic WS-series engine isn't ready for production, with its reliability and performance issues,

So the J-31 is currently using Russian engines to achieve those stats.

>The J-31 is meant for exports, like the MBT3000.
It's literally a poor country's stealth jet

The J-20 is China's main 'near-parity' contender to the F-35/F-22 Raptor. You should just compare that instead.

>>31058119
I pity you cant see beyond the propaganda you've been fed.

The light will dawn upon you very soon my friend

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>>31058102
It's like that with all their aircraft.

>2006: Comac C919 enters development
>2008: The government restructures Comac, first flight is set for 2015
>2011: Comac enters an agreement with Ryanair for Ryanair's help designing the C919
>2012: Design for the C919 finalized
>2014: First flight pushed back to 2016
>2016: First prototype is still unfinished

They couldn't even build the thing with Chinese parts either.

>>31058102
J 31's existence was revealed only in 2012

>F 35 first flight 2006
>J 31 first flight 2012

>F 35 enter production 2016
>China has 6 more years left

your numbers are wrong.

>>31058136

Except this isn't the 18th century and you're trying to argue China is a super advanced world superpower

>>31058191
Agree with everything you've said. Ill make a post later. But I would compare J-20 with the F-35 though. With the F22 definitely Yes. 2 specimens of J20 have been inducted as well

>>31058212
There were announcements from about a decade ago that Shenyang and Chengdu had been given funding to develop a new fighter in 2002; not my fault if it's taken them so long to get something to fly.

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>>31057911
>>31057925
Did someone say admiral Zhao?

>>31058226
So

The Joint Advanced Strike Technology thing is from 1993.

>>31058231
Ancient Chinese Cthulhu Magicks

>>31058128
>Everyone praises a book that lays out extremely simple strategems that anyone with a brain stem would work out innately
>China proceeds to get shit on in every battle for hundreds of years

m-muh art of war

>>31058161
It's well established China can build smartphones, even add new features. But they couldn't come up with the idea of a smartphone, because their industry has very little incentive to do anything other than copy.

>>31058219
No. the year is irrelevant. human nature doesn't change.

What is relevant is both are undergoing similar phases of development and hence will face similar sets of problems with honesty and ethics.

You cant teach that farmer in rural china how to be morally superior when this is the first time he has a chance in his life to gain wealth. He will be shitty and cut corners just like what happened during industrialisation everywhere as my quote shows.

And I didn't bring this up. This is out of topic and only was in reply. Lets stop this.

>>31058255
>Lets stop this.

Agreed, I'm just going to filter your retarded posts. Thanks for namefagging!

>>31058023

IP problems are a nice way to say their shit is so copied they'ed be sued out of existance.

But no, it's not just that, lots of Chinese products fail basic saftey standards, exploding batteries sure are fun, right? So are paper vehicles and lead contaminated food.

>>31058255
>Lets stop this.
why did you fucking make this thread you retarded shrimp nigger

>>31058226
J 20 has been the fastest with gen plane to be developed. The numbers you show are when the idea has been floated. Not when actual designing started.

If J20 has been inducted now, no reason why J31 is going to be delayed.

>In 2009, a senior PLAAF official revealed that the first flight was expected in 2010–11, with an service entry date by 2019.[12

J20 is ahead of schedule

>>31058255
You are trying to argue with Americans.
Please stop.
When the Euros and Vatniks couldn't convince them, what makes you think you could?

>>31058263
He didnt get enough attention today so he needed more

>>31058240
Not again. Like I told earlier, you cant advance before you reach parity.

America didn't invent rocket. But sure as hell they went to the moon. Germany cant send their own shit up anymore nowadays.

Doesn't matter who invented it forst. Who is going to take it into the future? And for that first parity has to be attained

>>31058282
America has to use the Russian Soyuz for to send their shit up to space...

>>31058282
Japan competed with the US for 30 years and never reached 'parity'. Russia competed with the US for 50 years and ever reached 'parity'. It's almost like 'parity' is an impossible concept when your opponent is continually moving forward.

>>31058288
On a 50 year old spacecraft NASA would have long since decommissioned...

>>31058288
>has
Why the fuck would we spend a fuckload of money developing a new manned rocket when the slavs have one and are willing to sell us tickets to go up on it

>>31058263
>>31058259

I was speaking regarding to deviating to gutter oil. Not the post itself. Sorry if I was misunderstood. Lets do continue about the planes

>>31058273
I don't have anything better to do in real life. Atleast these people respond to me

>>31058260
Chinese phones of those 8 companies I listed aren't the shitty exploding batteries type. Thts the whole point I'm making.

They were shady shit youd stay away 5 years before. Right now they have become household names in my country and the majority are infact buying them.

Even Apple phones explode from time to time. Outliers aren't considered. They are as reliable as any other company.

Honestly you wont realise this until they enter US markets. Once they do you will agree with me. To westerners these are all far off companies they are not familiar with. For us we use these in day to day life right now.

We have witnessed how they have improved and you will too when they come over there. Just look at the coverage one plus three phone got from western media. What if I told you xiaomi phones are better than OP3 and the only reason they are under the radar is because One plus reached USA while Xiaomi hasn't.

disregard everything i've said previously, i suck cocks

>>31058373
>Even Apple phones explode from time to time.

Yes, because people use shitty unauthorized third party chinese accessories

>>31058394
Will do, thank you for clearing this up

UNF UNF why can't i GLUK GLUK GLUK SHLOCK SHLOCK stop HNGGGG sucking cocks

>>31058266
Nope, the concept for the J-XX goes back into the 90s.

>If J20 has been inducted now, no reason why J31 is going to be delayed.
The J-31 has no customers; it's an export-only jet.

>>31058401
At least one iPhone exploded because an internal screw came loose and rubbed against the battery for months.

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>>31058307
The only reason japan didn't reach parity is its a tiny island compared to US and its population is 1/3rd. Japanese can never reach parity in quantity.

Japan sure as hell Leads the world in many spheres. From cultural dominance to electronics and Automobiles, Japanese companies are at the forefront.

And that is why you should look ou for china.

China is everything japan was except now they have the land mass and people to push forward.

Japans GDP never crossed USA in any measure. China surpassed it in PP terms and is on its way to surpass it in nominal terms as well.

And Russia is an outlier. They were isolationist and waged in too may wars for their population size which again is same as japans.

China has the geography and demography to breach that ceiling.

And yes, the strength of America is its immigrants and integrating the immigrants into americans. That is a major reason American population curve is not tapering like other developed country. This is indeed a serious advantage US has

>>31058417
HOKK HOKK HOKK HOKK see amerifats? UNG UNG UNG your product inferior UNG UNG UNG

>>31058406

Stop doing this please.

>>31058452
SCHLOCK
>massive teary eyed inhale
>...
>...
>...
UNG UNG UNG

>>31058471
Do you derive pleasure from this? If so continue.

Are you trying to make me angry? If so don't. I'm not going to get angry.

>>31058334
This.
The only reason NASA uses Soyuz is because it's cheap. And if being a Jew means being able to develop some new probe to find planet nine or some shit instead of developing a new rocket just to send people into space, well that's what it takes.

>>31058436
Long term, China will overtake USA.

The only question is when is the point.

>>31057938
This feels 50% boogey man tales. 50% true, mainly because If I was them, id do it too. I've always

>>31058023
Absolutely right, Oppo and Huawei were "cheap knockoffs" to me when they started but they seems to be really high quality these days.

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>>31058488
sucking cocks brings me SO much pleasure

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>>31057340

>>31058076
It only takes one revolutionary thinking out of a sea of over a billion people. Whose to say some 12 year old kid in Beijing who idolizes Steve Jobs (fucking kek) or Elon Musk doesn't become that person in 10 years.

>>31058539
Funny. Americans make good jokes.

>>31058535
Thank you

>>31058373
What country are you in, because it's evidently not the USA...

>>31058555
Chinese made the largest joke ever. Their country.

>>31057925
People used to say the same about Japan. China will stall at some point.

>>31058555
T-50 is better then that piece of shit.

>>31058575

Look

>>31058436

>>31057534
>Take your fucking time, holy shit.

And getting color revolution'ed/invaded like Iraq/Afghanistan/regime changed by the US?

Nope.

We will never do that mistake again.

Qing Dynasty was economically vibrant, but militarily weak, and it fell prey to the Western Imperial powers and Japan, who felt that a rich but weak China is like a fat and defenseless cattle waiting to be slaughtered.

China only spends like 1,5% of their GDP on military anyway, so it's actually kinda modest.

If Clinton wins, China will up their spending to at least 5% of the GDP to crank out more ships and finally end the fucking shitty minimum deterrence posture that mandates that China only retains 240 nukes. China needs at least 2000 nukes to deter the US warmongers from first striking China and take us, their most threatening rival, out.

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>>31058610
>China needs at least 2000 nukes to deter the US warmongers from first striking China and take us, their most threatening rival, out.

loool

So sorry, but you aren't that important.

>>31058610
China will never spend more percent from their GDP than the USA.

Not gonna happen.

>>31058570
I don't want to divulge. Then my country would be factored into all of my arguments instead of looking at the merit of the arguments themselves

>>31058136
Thank you for the interesting post.

I've often thought this aswell but in terms of child labor. If it was good enough for my ancestors, than it's good enough for the chinese kids in that they are gettign paid money to feed themselves. It's fucked up that their countrymen, parents, government, people in power force them into this but it's almost the only route to the evolution of civilisations at least for terran-hominids.

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>>31058621
China spent 50% of their GDP on defense back during Korean War.

As the GPD grew, the military spending in % got smaller, even though absolute numbers got bigger.

China would have no problem spending 5% when the security environment around her detoriates. Especially when Clinton has to prove herself to China and Russia to be some tough woman to get taken serious by Xi and Putin, by doing something really damn fucking neo-con-like shit.

>>31058622
I'm asking because your arguments aren't exactly overflowing in merit m8.

I'll grant your grammar is superior to the usual 50 centers.

China is doing well, but it's been systemically overrated. Pearl Delta supply chains and Wechat common identities inside a walled garden are nice but don't scream first world.

>>31058610
To be honest, 240 nukes aimed at industrial and population centers seem to be pretty enough (if you get them launched of course).
But I can really understand China wants to have more in case the US strikes first.

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>>31058618
Then why is the US so butthurt about some sand-castles in the South China Sea?

>>31058637
It doesn't matter because, thanks to the history of Chinese kin selection norms over the last 2000 years, intra-clan loyalties are high while society-wide loyalties are low - China is a bit unusual that way, most societies bred for one or the other.

To cut the anthropology short, coup fears ensure that warheads and missiles are separated. This is feasible thanks to China's massive underground construction, but it seriously damages their chances at competition in an America-first-strike scenario.

>>31058640
Because the US is a superpower, and therefore, naturally hypocritical when suddenly confronted with competition.

There will be no conflict suddenly sparking up in the Paracels; just a lot of posturing as there always is between major powers.

>>31058288
There is no real point in making a short range-style rocket like the Russians while we are designing a new long-range rocket and shuttle system.

its kinda like taking a bus to the city while saving up for a ferrari to take far beyond the city and go a state over.

Frankly, we have no interest in getting to Mars on Russian rockets. The cost-per-pound/cost-per-kilo is higher than say the Space Shuttle, or even the SpaceX rocket (which is reusable and improves all the time). Getting to Mars will likely involve:

1- launch to near-earth orbit, likely near the ISS or at the ISS itself

2- refuel

3- slingshot using the moon and earth to help speed things up

4- get to Mars

5- thatsonesmallstepforman.gif

That cant be done with what the Ruskies offer

>>31057925
And now everyone in China will have 300 years of cancer. It'll work itself out in the long run.

>>31058651
Interesting. What about the second strike capability via SSBNs?
They won't be able to separate the warheads from the missiles in a sub.

>>31058635
I'm a south indian. Close to sri Lankan border. Please do point out the demerits of arguments if you have the time.

I'm not at all saying china is a first world country. But China is doing everything to become first world. The methods they follow are tried and tested by the current first world countries. And they are doing it in record times.

The usual they copy, the have no morals, they do not innovate are all just checkpoints on a country's path to development and were experienced by every country.

Look up the great smog or the great stink of London. During industrialisation Thames was literally a sewage. Yet it isn't now.

And I say the same holds for china in the future.

>>31058676
As a side note, the Air Force space program regularly flies the X-37 series for [REDACTED] that does [THIS PAGE HAS INTENTIONALLY BEEN LEFT BLANK].

so its not like the government doesnt go to space. The NRO and AF probably have a larger space budget than NASA

>>31058023
China hasn't worked out how to feed itself or fuel it's own industries so get back to me when we should give a shit.

>>31058709
Are you saying Chinese are agriculturally deficient and are borrowing power?

Both are wrong.

China is building renewable energy and coal plants both at record rates. Not mention the 20 + nuclear reactors in the next 10 years.

>China has 27 nuclear power reactors in operation, 24 under construction, and more about to break ground. The plan is to install about 150 GW by 2030. China National Nuclear Corporation recently signed an agreement with Bill Gates’ new nuclear power company, TerraPower, to bring the world’s most advanced nuclear reactor to market before 2030. In fact, China wants its nuclear fleet in general to be the most advanced technologically.

What you've said makes no sense

>>31058692
I imagine they're using some kind of enhanced PAL, although sub's isolation from land army chains of command is what really matters.

The Type 94s aren't as much of a threat in a nuclear war vs the USA, they are simply too noisy (think 1970s Russian tech) to get in range for a depressed-ballistic shot and would be pre-emptively killed by US SSNs.

>>31058736
Net calorie importer; and imports oil along a route infamously vulnerable to the US navy.

Chinese dependence on foreign oil is one of the main reasons educated (instead of lower-class) Americans politely laugh about inter-power conflict with China.

China's Great Silk Road project is worth praising, however. If successful, that will make it an economically inextricable part of the continent - a much better weapon than poorly cloned missile buses.

>>31058436
How does China plan to kill the half billion people it doesn't need?

>>31058777
With no voting and totalitarian control there's no need to kill them off, just ignore them and if they die in poverty then so be it.

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i'm just worried what will happen when the USAF does a [REDACTED] and then does a [CLASSIFIED] or a [THIS PAGE HAS INTENTIONALLY BEEN LEFT BLANK].

We are basically all fucked then.

>>31058693
Im not the Anon you were talking to but let me try to explain my perspective.

1- most claims about "Nation X exceeds America" have fallen on their face. People cried this about Germany... then Japan... then the Soviet Union... and many of these nations DID exceed us in some areas, but ultimately they did not. I think China could reach a comfortable place.

2- internal institutional inertia is a hell of a drug. The US dollar is the world's defacto currency, the major oil currency, and major foreign reserve currency., even for China! This is unbelievably huge. It means an attack on the US dollar or economy is in-effect an attack on the world economy. This makes people mad, in general, and would severely hurt international trade (china of course benefits alot from international trade). Economically speaking, China may be the "engine (or so it was claimed, that growth is slowing down)" but the USD remains the "fuel".

Another caveat to that is the need for currency transparency. How are the numbers reported? How is economic data collected? US methods, while maybewlabrynthian and often confusing to the uninformed, are intended to be transparent. There is no secret manipulation. In contrast, China's yuan has been accused of currency manipulation by various parties, and that is bad. Manipulating economic figures means that foreign markets wont trust your currency or markets, and that is very, very bad. Unless china really cleans up their black-box treasury, it is EXTREMELY unlikely chinese currency will approach the reserve and economic influence of the USD.


Unfortunately have to go, may continue later

>>31058736
But where do they get the coal?

>>31058765
CPEC is under full construction just for that. Right of the red sea they dock at Pakistan and reach xinjiang.

Besides they have amped up plans to buy oil through pipelines from Russia. Right now yes they are vulnerable at Malacca and they know it and hence are building alternatives.

And where is the net calorie importer written. Couldn't find in search. Have a link please? I would believe they are pretty self sufficient. Maybe they are importing some organic stuff from new Zealand or Australia to the richer crowd but I find it unbelievable they cant produce rice and fish

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>>31058782
>starving people have never overthrown anyone, and peasant revolts have never worked, certainly not in China!

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>>31058817
Pic loosely related because it's the only thing in my archives right now.

While staples consumed per person shift more towards protein as a nation develops, food consumption as a whole also increases, so there is still a net increase in grain demand. Since introducing proteins as an intermediate energy stage also multiply grain needs, grain demands expand very fast.

Urban development is also cutting into agricultural land. While Chinese grain processes are more efficient than e.g. the US, it isn't enough to compensate.

>>31058820
>But not all at once, and not on her birthday!

>>31058219
>Except this isn't the 18th century
Literally
>muh current year
the argument. It's still a developing country, no matter the year.

>>31058795
Thanks

>1

Like ive explained before, Nobody had the combination US had. Large landmass with large population. Germany Japan were simply not going to surpass USA. They are the size of Texas with around 100 mil population. Russia was huge but it did not have an open market and had 120 mil population only. Again fell short.

The reason why China MIGHT be different is it has both land mass and population. Yes history is on US's side but the same history says why others failed and why it wont apply to china.

>2
Absolutely right. That is going to be the biggest problem for them. Once again the Chinese have showed some foresight.

They have the AIIB and the SCO. Just like how World Bank and IMF set up under USA helped South korea Japan become its life long partners, China is trying something similar with their AIIB/NDB and SCO. They are spurring infrastructure investment all over Central Asia and Africa hoping they become China's own japan and south korea.

It is a tough ask. The work culture in Africa is not what Japan has. So this might backfire spectacularly. But the Chinese have no choice. The good countries are taken. China is trying to make the best of the hand it was delivered.

If this backfires though the path Chinese dominance got a whole lot difficult.

Also china like it transitioned from communism to market economy will have to transition from single party limited democracy to full fledged democracy in the next 25 years. This will ensure all the transparency you seek in the economy. Admitedly this is the one part where the goals of the politburo does not coincide with goals of the people. We will have to wait and see.

aah fuck man...I just typed reading line by line and I saw this only at last. Anyway hope you get to read

>>31058101
>muh "the big bad NSA does it anyway"
Yeah they do but you don't see Americans defending them.

China doesn't trust its own citizens with access to the Internet and their greatest innovations are in finding new ways to give you heavy metal poisoning. Until they at a bare minimum figure out how to stop poisoning their kids and treating their citizens like retarded children I'm going to have a hard time believing in any kind of Chinese supremacy.

>>31058874

Interesting. I cant understand why they would would let that slip past. They need to address it quickly. I retract my previous argument

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>>31057340
Why did you find it necessary to edit out the exhaust?

>>31058795

>In contrast, China's yuan has been accused of currency manipulation by various parties, and that is bad. Manipulating economic figures means that foreign markets wont trust your currency or markets, and that is very, very bad. Unless china really cleans up their black-box treasury, it is EXTREMELY unlikely chinese currency will approach the reserve and economic influence of the USD.

If you think the Chinkys are priming the Yuan to replace the dollar outright you're completely wrong. China wants control of the IMF and to implement the SDR to act as a reserve currency, just as it was intended in the 1970s.

The IMF included the Yuan in it's SDR basket last year.

>>31059011
(not OP here) lol I didn't even notice that

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/money-wealth/article/1997896/august-lift-china-set-special-drawing-rights-bond-issues

China might take another big step forward this month in its long-term aim to forge an IMF money system into the world’s dominant currency.

Mainland media group Caixin reported that the World Bank planned to issue bonds denominated in Special Drawing Rights in China as early as the end of this month. It said policy bank China Development Bank was also planning an SDR bond issue.

The SDR is a unit of money created by the International Monetary Fund and defined by a weighted average of various convertible currencies.

Market traders questioned the real purpose of such bonds, saying the SDR had little use in investment and trade.

China has long had an obsession with the IMF’s SDR and wants to reduce the global reliance on the US dollar.

>>31059011
I started this as an obvious bait post for some trolling. But half way down I changed my mind.

I hoped people would find it right away and the circle jerk would begin. :) but yeah good eye there.

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>>31059011
She's a dirty, dirty girl

>>31058631
It's part of China's long term strategy not to overspend on things like military, space programs and stuff.

>>31057352
>"Better"

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>>31057340
Oh yes /k/-san, China say plane very good better than pesky American F-35!

No problems to werk out with Original China design!

>>31057491
>Navalized J-20
>Implying it will ever be able to launch off a ski ramp with any relevant combat load.

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>>31057352
I seriously doubt China's claim of being "better".

They probably mean they reduced it's capabilities to alleviate the problems they don't have the money or skill to fix.

>>31059241
Why it shouldn't?

>>31059256
43,000lbs empty weight, comparable to the F-22s heavy weight, which was one of the large reasons why the navalized 22 was never given the go ahead.

And for comparison, the J-15 has issue enough with carrying heavy payloads and they come in at 38,000.

>>31057925
>China did in 70 years
No my friend, China did it in more than 5000 years.

>>31058149
>That presence of mind to save your child

Fuck that's terrible. I think the average Chinese people are alright, they didn't seem so ultranationalistic when I was over there. They certainly had a handle on realizing how corrupt society was -- bribing teachers for grades and education for children, bribing surgeons so your operation doesn't go wrong, and the like.

They had a very good opinion on the United States; it might be because I'm a foreign national but I am Chinese by ethnicity.

>>31057437
Wong Wei, pls help your country men. Yes, the US F-22 door did not open which threatened the life of the pilot.

But for Chinese your neighbors, first focus on every day safety before attempting to make fighting planes.

https://www.rt.com/news/334734-chinese-dies-trapped-elevator/

>>31057340
>believing chinas stats are true.
>thinking the U.S. published max capability.

>>31059515
>My country is right
>Your country is wrong

>>31059532
Except China has a history of false and impressive sounding claims, while the US has a history of underselling their tech and not telling anyone what it's actually capable of until decades later.

>>31059515

Witness an average american

>>31058255
>He will be shitty and cut corners
This reflects a very severe misunderstanding of human nature.

China does not have the economic setup for well-functioning markets presently. That allows for participants in its current market system to act in fraudulent ways.

The reason this is not present in the United States is not because of increased "development" of "human nature." The Americans are not more evolved than the Chinese as individuals. The difference is that markets are setup better in the United States because of relatively less government intervention into the economy.

>>31058510
>because it's cheap
No, it's because we discontinued other systems like the Shuttle. Outside of the US Government however, SpaceX is now the world leader in putting things into space -- reliable, cheapest, and so on.

>>31059474
Go back home chink. You're not western.

>>31058795
>attack on world economy

You are correct, but the reason is more nuanced. An attack on the world economy by devaluing the US dollar is not because everyone likes using US dollars.

The reason the US dollar is so well recognized and used is because so many nations want products produced in the United States. Either by directly purchasing American goods or indirectly by trading with others who want to buy American products, devaluing the dollar would mean "there is decreased world demand for American products."

>>31059547
False. I just quoted above America had a massive adulteration problem during industrialisation. how lead and sand was mixed with food.

You are fundamentally ignoring the thought process of a poor man. Morality cannot flourish when there is no prosperity. Ethics and morality lie above the priority compared to food and shelter. Markets are not even remotely relevant to this problem.

Chinese are cheating just like how americans cheated during industrialisation.

>>31059591
Fuckin badass. I swear if this was American, all the /k/ucks here would be singing praises

>>31059621
>massive adulteration problem during industrialization

This is because US markets at that time did not have quality control institutions, which are present now.

Not having QC or industrial standards for production creates something called a "transaction cost" for consumers; now they must test things on their own. The risk of finding tainted materials reduces consumer demand for a particular manufacturer's product; thus branding became important in the United States, because it communicated a commitment to quality for consumers. A no-name manufacturer you never heard of, versus one well recognized.

>fundamentally ignoring the thought process
No, I am completely factoring it in.

>Ethics and morality lie above the priority compared to food and shelter
This is irrelevant. The persons operating American corporations may be quite unethical and immoral. But there are mechanisms present in the human labor market here where their on-the-job conduct, if it should reflect underlying unethical/immoral behavior, would remove them from the enterprise.

This is your cognitive error, to think that human evolution is nationally dependent. We all respond to incentives, after all.

>markets are not even remotely relevant
This commitment to retardation explains why the Chinese civilization, despite being more than 5,000 years old, is so poor.

>>31058532
Expensive Huaweis are good as far as I have heard, cheap Huaweis are fucking terrible. I'll never skimp on price when buying a phone again.

I still have never connected it to my computer, and I never will.

>>31057340
>Master of one >> Jack of all trades
So it's a different type of plane.

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>>31057340
>Master of one >> Jack of all trades

That's why we still build dedicated night fighters, right anon?

>>31059745
>>31059730
I think the more pressing thing of note is that the J-31 is just as multirole as the F-35

>>31059666
Not Chinese. So your insults don't matter.

You think China doesn't have food standards? Obviously any remotely competent country has them.

What you are repeatedly ignoring is China is an industrialising country. The systems although designed simply cannot be enforced due to the scale at which everything is changing.

Every week hundreds of thousands come to the city. How do you think the government is going to keep up their standards and shit?

Which is why like you agreed during industrialising America had its problems, the same problems persist with China.

I think you are conflating two issues here.

Accusation 1: Chinese are soul less cheats. they use gutter oil.

Answer: Because Chinese are industrialising they are looking to raise their living standards and are presented with an opportunity for the first time. they are seizing it by hook or crook.

Accusation 2: China does not enforce the rules for a fair market

Answer: The industrialization is happening on such a large scale, the govt literally does not have the mechanism to regulate it like western countries do even though laws are in place. That guy selling gutter oil stuff will not be selling with a registered business paying taxes. He is making money in the informal sector which will continue till they are developed.

The guys above me argued, Even though Chinese cannot enforce the laws, the Chinese farmer should have ethics to not make quick bucks like that. My reply hence did not include market control mechanisms

I was only speaking about the former. You are dealing with the latter.

>>31059761
>How do you think the government is going to keep up their standards and shit?

Again, the cognitive error. I said previously that the government intervention is largely responsible for their poor markets.

I did not make accusation 1; if you read, I said neither nation has greater human evolution than the other.

I also did not make accusation 2.

It is irrelevant what the farmer's ethics are. What matters is this -- are manufacturers and producers facing participation in a market where their economic survival is related to satisfying consumer demand, as it is in the United States.

This is why, despite being such an old civilization, China is still poor today. Why the average Chinese consumer has higher demand for foreign products compared to domestic products.

The purpose of the FC31 is to look like a 5th gen aircraft so that it can sell in a highly competitive market.

The fact that the Chinese military has no interest in a J31 says all you need to know.

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>>31059837

Seriously man. Let me try again

Do you think all of China has only one brand of something? China internally has multiple companies fighting it out in the commercial space. All the accusations of state monopoly exist only in strategic industries. Like any other country.

This is why your arguments don't make sense. Do the Chinese have one single phone maker? One single car maker? one single anything?

They do have an open market which is highly responsive to the consumer demand. They have 10 + manufacturers who build above average phones and plenty that build shitty ones

So when there are food chains that offer 5 star experience to gutter oil fried noodles why do you think all of them exist?

Its not like every hotel is filthy. By your explanation, Since there are other hotels all this should have stopped right? why hasn't it?
And hence we go back to the two scenarios I told above.

China is an old civilisation. in 1949 it inherited nothing of that old civilisation. It was ravaged and pillaged. It did not have any working system.

>China is poor today

agree. Compared to USA it is poor. 1949, it was Africa tier poor. Now its brazil tier. and its trajectory shows its only going up. rapidly. See pic related

To summarise: Your accusations of china not having an open market for consumer goods and services is simply not true. Every product does have competition. Still the market fringes have shitty stuff and they don't seem to die. why?

>>31059837
its pretty late, got to leave, maybe tomorrow if the threads still around!

bye anon

>>31058119
>ad hominem
>

>>31059352
>random number

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>>31058288
>America has to use the Russian Soyuz for to send their shit up to space...

America sends shit into space all the time, anon.

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>>31059759
In design? Yes.

In capability? Pretty much guaranteed to be no.

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>>31058224

Body collector must be on his tea break

>pic related

>>31058436

All that chart shows me is that Mexicans are poor. Poverty = higher birthrates + lower life expectancy. Women outlive men in every country on the planet, so the gender balance is meaningless.

>>31060176
>Saying someone is misinformed is ad hominem

nope

ad hominem would be saying that you're a giant winged faggot. See the difference?

>>31058782
Ah, a second great leap forward!

>>31059572

The shuttles had all passed their service life and were costing too much to try and keep them working. Sure we lost the ability to do some work when they retired, but for ferrying a couple people the soyuz is cheaper for now. Maybe once SpaceX gets its manned capsule together we'll have a cheaper way with their reusable boosters but for now, Soyuz is what we have.

>>31057388
average k/ poster right here. fucking full of shit.

>>31057573
>Seeing that /k/ was intelligent enough to dismiss the DF 21 rightly so
>intelligent

nigga you gotta be a special kind of stupid if you think all these fucking retards here possess anything close to subject knowledge for anything that doesn't go bang when you pull the trigger.

fucking k/ I swear...

>>31058640
>why is the US so interested in China trying to claim islands owned by its allies and waters where trillions of dollars in international trade flow through

>>31061143
>can't write /k/ properly
>tries to insult the intelligence of others

>>31061483
i'm not trying to insult the intelligence of the average k/unt here simply because there isn't much to insult.

It's pretty much a fact that most of you are minimum wage autists.

>>31061735
>maximum wage professionals.

FTFY

Fyi we're on the internet

>>31057385
>RD-33

Come on now Anon, they don't even make base level -33 anymore.

And the newer RD-33M/MK/SMT/OVT are pretty nice engines (in ascending order of quality).

>>31057340
what about it's instrumentation, pylon space, and radar avoidance?

you know, the three largest selling points of the F35

fuck it. this is just another shit post

>>31061735
>>31061143

lol

>better
>cheaper
>shorter development time
Pick two. Unless they're copying from American or Russian design, China absolutely CANNOT into military vehicles. This is an observable FACT.

Their strong point is small arms. Chinese military firearms are breddy gud/10. One would expect as much, they're a militaristic expansionist state. But developing a copy of the F-35 that's cheaper, in a shorter time span, AND is "better" (however you want to quantify THAT subjectivity)? Not for another 30 years, at least.

>China
>making anything better

America even had to fix Chinese food.

>>31061771
If your current wage is your maximum wage in the industry you're working in, you need to consider a better industry.

No joke, even if you're bill gates or some shit. And that nigga did switch industry.

>>31058676
NASA will develop the SLS and then buy spacex tickets to Mars to save money. I believe spacex will be making a "shuttle" like the one Von Braun invisioned (nothing like what they actually made).

>>31061857
American chinese food is a goddamn blight upon this planet, and the only benefits that America has offered to the chinese food culture is the benefit of plenty where otherwise exotic or expensive products (such as beef) can now be acquired reliably through industrialization.

If we cannot agree on this the conversation is over.

>>31057554
>I know nothing!

The Post.

>>31058812
For about ±10 years, they have been buying coal from the USA & Canada.

But last year Australia beat Canada on the barging table for coal sales (unsure about the USA).. so the coal mines up by Hinton, Alberta are all closing since the Chinese aren't buying.

Thanks NDP.

>>31059011
>>31059036
Why would they use old original model RD-33's in a prototype?

Cost controls?

>>31061920
>the only benefits that America has offered to the chinese food culture

How about actual cooking oil instead of cooking with human waste?

>>31061947
Another benefit of plenty.

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>>31058610

>If Clinton wins, China will up their spending to at least 5% of the GDP to crank out more ships and finally end the fucking shitty minimum deterrence posture

Out if curiosity, what do you think will happen if Trump wins, chinkbro?

>>31057573
>implying the US doesn't tend to understate capabilities

>>31057938
Well, that's a good example of how you get the J-31 design: lots of pictures and none of the complex aerodynamic modeling or engineering quality that went into the F-35 design.

>>31058013
>The pro-US side is ultra-patriotic Amerifats, kiddies who think stealth fighters are 'cool', and idiots who think more money automatically equals better weapons.
Yeah, keep kidding yourself. American equipment has been dominant since the F-15, and even in Gen 3 the F-4 mostly managed a positive K:D ratio. If anything the raw capabilities are understated, not puffed up fakery like Russian/Chinese propaganda.

Plus we can actually afford to fly our planes for training.

>>31058161
>Check out the Huawei P9 with Leica camera
Which is rated as crap, and a bad camera.

>Check out Lenovo Tango. Again the first of its kind in the world
Shut up with Lenovo, they had a head start from buying IBM's PC division.

>>31058628
Child labor devalues all payroll, while preventing the next generation from getting the education they need to advance the nation.

>>31058693
>I'm a south indian. Close to sri Lankan border. Please do point out the demerits of arguments if you have the time.
So you're a foreign subcontractor for Chinese propaganda.
>33 rupees a post

>>31062550
>IBM's PC division.
YEAH, BECAUSE IBM'S PC DIVISION WAS TOTALLY INNOVATIVE AND CUTTING EDGE, RIGHT? THAT'S WHY IBM THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA TO SELL IT TO THE CHINESE?

GET A FUCKING CLUE, DUMBASS. THERE ARE COMPARATIVE ADVANTAGES, AND THERE ARE ABSOLUTE ADVANTAGES. US DOES NOT HOLD ABSOLUTE ADVANTAGES IN ALL FIELDS, AND IT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE COMPARATIVE ADVANTAGES LOW ON THE VALUE CHAIN.

READ A FUCKING BOOK ONCE IN A WHILE, YOU STUPID SHIT. OR, YOU KNOW, ACTUALLY GET A JOB THAT WIDENS YOUR WORLD VIEW, BUT THAT REQUIRES A MODICUM OF INTELLIGENCE.

>>31058765
Not to mention that the US could cut economic relations and recover in no time, while it would bankrupt Chinese industry.

>>31061855
>China absolutely CANNOT into military vehicles.
says who? you?
>This is an observable FACT.
no, you're just full of shit.

>>31062797
>cut economic relations
how? sanction your own fucking companies? You gonna reimburse all their FDI? With what money?

> recover in no time
You're fucking delusional

>while it would bankrupt Chinese industry
bankrupt? I don't think you should use terms you don't understand. If you think China will have a balance of payment problems in the private section, maybe. But if you think there won't be intervention from the public section, you're just fucking stupid. But we already knew that.

My advice, take a course or 2 in macroeconomics, from a GOOD school. Assuming you make the cut, that is (you probably won't, since you're fucking stupid)

>>31059641
Looking pretty doesn't mean it performs well.

>>31062780
>YEAH, BECAUSE IBM'S PC DIVISION WAS TOTALLY INNOVATIVE AND CUTTING EDGE, RIGHT? THAT'S WHY IBM THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA TO SELL IT TO THE CHINESE?
IBM created the floppy disk and hard drive among other things you dimwit. The only reason IBM sold its PC division was because it can't compete with mass production anymore. Who gives a shit if Chinks can mass produced crap that someone else innovates? USA was at the forefront of computer technology and still is. You need to read a book about American history and technology.

>>31060797
Don't forget NASA's Orion project.

>>31061857
>Fucking chicken feet
I don't care how desperate the farmers who came up with "Phoenix Talons" were, garbage bits don't belong on a plate in a non-starving area.

The same goes for chitlins and other similar garbage parts foods.

>>31062874
you're dumb as shit.

>IBM created the floppy disk and hard drive among other things you dimwit.
Floppy isn't even relevant when Lenovo acquired the PC division in 2005, and HDD is a fucking commodity item. And remember, the HDD business went to Hitachi.

>The only reason IBM sold its PC division was because it can't compete with mass production anymore.
CAN'T. COMPETE. Do you know why it can't compete? Because it can't differentiate itself in what is essentially a commodity space. Which is funny because ThinkPads had a CULT following, but IBM, for reasons I will not a hazard a guess on, did not refresh the design in a market that is constantly in flux. That's not a mass production issue, that's a design/strategy issue.

>Who gives a shit if Chinks can mass produced crap that someone else innovates?
See above. Also, if you think the consumer electronics space is just about mass production, you're wrong. But you're wrong about a lot of things, so I'll let that slide.

>USA was at the forefront of computer technology and still is.
Talking about IBM, buddy, don't change the goal post.

>You need to read a book about American history and technology.
HAHAHAHAHA. You're talking to a dual degree/3 cars/high 6 fig tech "worker", and you want ME to read a fucking book? Did you even fucking finish undergrad at your piss poor 4th tier state school?

I know I've already told you that you're fucking stupid as fuck, but allow me to reiterate that again in case literacy is not your forte: you're fucking stupid as fuck.

>>31062780
Lolwhat? IBM's PC division was pretty much considered god-tier by businesses. They sold the PC side to focus on their core server/mainframe business.

>GET A FUCKING CLUE, DUMBASS. THERE ARE COMPARATIVE ADVANTAGES, AND THERE ARE ABSOLUTE ADVANTAGES. US DOES NOT HOLD ABSOLUTE ADVANTAGES IN ALL FIELDS, AND IT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE COMPARATIVE ADVANTAGES LOW ON THE VALUE CHAIN.
Is that why all of the CPU and GPU companies are in the US (Intel, AMD, nVidia, ARM), while licensee producers are mostly in Taiwan and South Korea? And only final assemblers, the lowest skilled part of the process, in China?

>READ A FUCKING BOOK ONCE IN A WHILE
That's pretty funny coming from a rageposter who only knows the propaganda.

>>31062856
Trade imbalance. US industry and raw profits could far more easily shift to other nations or even back to the US without serious losses, while you are critically dependent on US product manufacturing.

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>took the us 250 years to get fighter jets
>took china thousands of years

>>31063030
you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. IBM's PC division lost money from essentially 2000 to when it was sold. It couldn't cope with the disruption from the other AMERICAN companies.

>they sold the PC side to focus on their core server/mainframe business.
WHICH THEY SOLD TO LENOVO IN 2014 (the intel based server business). As for mainframe, you know that's a fucking dying field, right?

>Is that why all of the CPU and GPU companies are in the US (Intel, AMD, nVidia, ARM), while licensee producers are mostly in Taiwan and South Korea? And only final assemblers, the lowest skilled part of the process, in China?
Why are you fucking fags always moving the goal post? I was STRICTLY talking about the IBM acquisition. Are you faggits so insecure that any comparative advantages that are not american must be instantly denied? What the fuck do you even do for a living?

By the way, I'm actually pretty familiar with TSMC, and unlike you, I actually did VLSI in school and have actually set foot in a fab. ARM is British, btw, and just because you're not familiar with foreign silicon IP doesn't mean they don't exist. Consumer space isn't the only space wafers get spun and lines get etched, but of course you're paltry "expertise" will never reveal that to you.

>That's pretty funny coming from a rageposter who only knows the propaganda.
>rageposter
yes, the aggregate stupidity displayed here irks me.
>propaganda
lol, bitch we don't play in the same league

Fuck off, dumb shit.

>>31063027
>CAN'T. COMPETE. Do you know why it can't compete? Because it can't differentiate itself in what is essentially a commodity space. Which is funny because ThinkPads had a CULT following, but IBM, for reasons I will not a hazard a guess on, did not refresh the design in a market that is constantly in flux. That's not a mass production issue, that's a design/strategy issue.
Sorry dude, but being able to compete in the commodity space doesn't count as innovation. If we're talking strictly about economic advantage then I agree that China holds them in certain sectors due to their economy of scale. What is completely wrong is equating China's manufacturing prowness with innovation.

>See above. Also, if you think the consumer electronics space is just about mass production, you're wrong. But you're wrong about a lot of things, so I'll let that slide.
What you wanna talk about MUH DIE SIZE AND PIXEL DENSITY ADVANCEMENT when competing? China doesn't even hold those advantages in the consumer electronics space. So yea, Chinese innovating nothing even with their manufacturing advantages.

>HAHAHAHAHA. You're talking to a dual degree/3 cars/high 6 fig tech "worker", and you want ME to read a fucking book? Did you even fucking finish undergrad at your piss poor 4th tier state school?
>Implying you know anything about me
Kinda pathetic that you had to bring up your little job to attack me.

>>31063049
well, since you're cutting off economic relations, there won't be a trade imbalance, because both sides would be ZERO.

>US industry and raw profits could far more easily shift to other nations
actually it can't. That's the problem Japan has faced for more than a a decade, and a problem US companies face too. The market is simply TOO LARGE.

>you are critically dependent on US product manufacturing.
what? Chinese domestic manufacturing doesn't end at the textile level on the value chain, you realize that, right? Funny thing is, the stuff the Chinese actually need, they CAN'T buy from the US due to sanctions.

It's pretty clear to me now that you're not a numbers guy, you're not an econ guy, so why keep pulling shit out of your ass?

>>31063176
>just because you're not familiar with foreign silicon IP doesn't mean they don't exist.
The oinly ones that matter right now are the ones I listed

>yes, the aggregate stupidity displayed here irks me.
It's pretty funny how angry you're getting all while completely wrong. IBM sold to Lenovo in about 2005/6ish, but they got to keep using the branding until 2014.

>>31063243
See, here's the thing, about all we get from China is a cheap manufacturing zone. US profit margins are insane right now because of it.

>>31063184
>Kinda pathetic that you had to bring up your little job to attack me.
Well, it was an appeal to authority. I have a habit of doing that in real life too. And the job title isn't little, neither is the paycheck. I digress.
Whatever I have said or not said, it doesn't change the fact that

1) I was limiting the scope of this discussion (really, schooling) to the IBM acquisition. Some dumb k/unt made a factually incorrect statement and tried to pass it off as a fact, so I slapped him. But you fucking faggits have to satisfy your "MURCA FUCK YEAH" ego by dragging a fairly limited bitch slapping session through the "FUCK CHINA AMERICA #1" cesspool. I never denied the prowess of silicon valley. I am, after all, in the fucking game.

2) you're still stupid. The "you" here is plural.

>>31057938
Can't you just tell them to fuck off or do something about spy shit? If it's obvious spying, I would assume you could do something about it.

>>31063334
>Some dumb k/unt made a factually incorrect statement and tried to pass it off as a fact
Lenovo is IBM's old PC division as of the mid oughts, and should not be included as an example of "Chinese innovation" because they literally bought a starting point from a US company on equal ground.

Is being this dumb just your normal state?

>>31063294
see, here's the thing. You don't actually know what the fuck you're talking about in the SLIGHTEST degree.

>>31063271
so before I bitch slap you, I have a serious question. Are you actually this dense?

>all while completely wrong
>IBM sold to Lenovo in about 2005/6ish
yes, and here is what I said:
>Floppy isn't even relevant when Lenovo acquired the PC division in 2005
>but they got to keep using the branding until 2014
and that matters in the slightest because???? The question is a very simple one, right? Was it a Lenovo product or an IBM product after 2005?

You know what I find amusing? Your rampant stupidity.

Time for some champagne. Get back at me, pham.

>>31063387
>Lenovo is IBM's old PC division as of the mid oughts
WHAT?
WHAT THE FUCK DID I JUST READ?
PLEASE TELL ME YOU'RE TROLLING ME. PLEASE. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. FOR YOUR SAKE....JESUS....

>>31063406
>>31063427
>retard with a lot of rage but no actual counterarguments

>>31059745
I fucking love the widow. My favorite plane of all time.

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>>31063406
>Was it a Lenovo product or an IBM product after 2005?
Technically it was still IBM in every way but who profited from it. Same facilities, same branding, same design and components. Is modern Lenovo excellent? Yes, I even own an Ideapad Y50 and Yoga 2 10" Win, but that's because they had a massive head start over native Chinese "copy everything" culture. Even the "best" native phone brand looks like, and has Android heavily reskinned to resemble, an iPhone.

And it shows in the J31, where they copy the rough shape of the F-35, but not the details that matter, and had to squeeze in a second engine because the ones they could build don't provide enough thrust.

>>31058106
The stupidity level, overall arrogance, and le joo rubbing hands maymay made me cringe hard.

>>31058209
>Tire Michelin
>American flag

Sacrebleu.

>>31063724
>The stupidity level, overall arrogance, and le joo rubbing hands maymay made me cringe hard.
US confidence in its equipment is high because it's actually good you little shit.

Not to mention we can actually afford flight training time.

>>31063552
>but that's because they had a massive head start over native Chinese "copy everything" culture.
is that your professional opinion?
Lenovo was Legend prior to the IBM acquisition, and they were already a WELL established PC maker in China. No1 or 2, IIRC.

So you posit that by acquiring the AILING PC business from IBM, one that shriveled under intense competition from the likes of Dell and HP, one that the IBM board deemed a dead weight, they were able to somehow leapfrog some of the exist major AMERICAN competitors in the space?

Does that make any sense to you? Your position is that the Chinese copy everything, right? So how does fucking Lenovo compete with technology that is more than a decade old? How does Lenovo stay competitive today?

The only way you maintain consistency is to assert that it's Lenovo's US operations that is beating the competition, but this is the same operation, as you say, that was discarded by IBM.

Do you still think your little thought exercise holds water?

>>31058224
Scum.

I once believed Africa had to be the shittiest place on earth, now today chinese are fleeing there I can see why.

>>31063436
well, to be curt, the counterargument is that you're a fucking dumb piece of shit whose "arguments" fall at the slightest prodding from anyone with more than 2 braincells to rub together.

>>31063802
They had no such reputation outside of China, so that means basically nothing. IBM could sell it fine, it was the PROFITS they couldn't finesse out of the division. And Lenovo bought both the expertise and the reputation of IBM PCs to be competitive in the West, which they didn't manage without.

>>31063852
>I have no arguments except "hurr your a retard"

>>31058226
>announcements
you mean rumors?

Let's not forget that both CAC and SAC had multiple projects active during that timeframe. How can you rule out all the other options?

I bet you don't even read Chinese, and you got these days from 4chan.

>>31063885
that's all you get for now, because that's all you deserve.

>>31063926
Translation: you don't actually have any valid counterarguments, so you ragequit.

>>31063876
>They had no such reputation outside of China
no, they just didn't have a western presence. I think you underestimate the size of the Chinese domestic PC market, even in the early 2000s. Legend might not have been able to match the sophistication of its western peers, but that's only half the battle in the consumer electronics space. Size, distribution, manufacturing. These are what wins the low margin markets.

>IBM could (NOT) sell it fine
>it was the PROFITS they couldn't finesse out of the division
you know this is the same thing, right? Sure, I'll take a piece of shit laptop for base material cost... you catch my drift? Like I said before, it didn't make money from 2000, possibly even earlier since I don't think IBM does a breakdown for their PC business (in the quarterly filings). That means they weren't competitive in the space. It means it didn't have what the consumers wanted. Be it low price or tech features or whatever... doesn't matter really because the bottom line is IBM wasn't selling (at the price it demands, which means it wasn't selling).

So Lenovo bought the business, and you said there are two components
1) reputation (we call it brand equity)
2) technology

and I agree, although how much brand equity is left in the IBM brand for CONSUMER electronics, I don't know, but I'd guess it's lower than the stock you put in it (look at Polaroid and Kodak)

What doesn't make sense to me is that you believe the discarded IBM division, AS IS, without any input from Lenovo, was able to stage a turnaround in a market they've been losing in for years. Basically, you're saying that as soon as Lenovo bought the IBM business, it turned from turd to gold. Just instantly. With no inputs from Lenovo. This doesn't add up to me.

>>31063934
lol ragequit. That's a nice term.

Too bad your dad's flaccid dick didn't ragequit your mom's cavernous vagina. Because if he did, there wouldn't exist a zero value oxygen consumer. (That's you, if you haven't divined my insult, you fucking mouthbreather)

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>>31057340

>2 engine >>1 engine


stopped reading there

>>31064156
The best part is that it took you an entire 17 minutes and 52 seconds to come up with precisely how angry you are.

>>31063788
My country pilots fly more than american ones.
My country also produces its own planes which are considered among the best even by high ranking US officials. Even if /k/ trolls think not. Reality and debriefings during exercices say otherwise.

You only know if a weapon is good once you tested it in war-like conditions. Anything can be made to look good though.

Right now, having confidence in the F-35, and in the "it will", "in the future", "soon" and so on, is just a marker of arrogance and over confidence, which already led a program so massive it will be the costliest ever to be 10 years late, and probably up to 15 if the plane has to match the then current standards once it become operational against relevant threats.

see you in 10 years for the full operational capability of these 3 flying engineer's nightmares.

Meanwhile, the rest of the world will kindly wait and do nothing, obviously.

>>31058023
Those companies were literally contract manufacturers and no one respects them as much as real companies. Go ahead, recommend Huawei networking equipment for your Fortune 500 company.

Oh wait, you can't because they got caught selling sensitive shit to North Korea. Then you get fired.

>>31064156
Holy fuck dude. No one believes you're a "super fucking rich and genius awesome techie." You're the same 15 year old with an inferiority complex we've all met. You even share the vocabulary and insult pool.

>>31064117
>and I agree, although how much brand equity is left in the IBM brand for CONSUMER electronics, I don't know, but I'd guess it's lower than the stock you put in it (look at Polaroid and Kodak)
None now, but that was the entire point of being allowed to keep using IBM branding, a smooth transition from being IBM by Lenovo to Lenovo. If they could've done it without IBM's PC division they would have.

>>31064278
the F-35 "soon" "will" and "in the future" because we already have a shit ton of extremely capable fighters. the scramble to catch up is a wonderfully non american problem.

>>31064278
>My country pilots fly more than american ones.
>My country also produces its own planes which are considered among the best even by high ranking US officials. Even if /k/ trolls think not. Reality and debriefings during exercices say otherwise.

Who, Japan? Because that's the only possible option. And even then Japan's native fighter in service is a modified F-16.

>>31064457
And even if a war were to happen where we need the F-35 suddenly in the fight right now, we have more of them than Russia has Su35s already.

>>31064221
well, I was typing >>31064117
Also read a tiny bit of news on FT, but that was like 3 minutes, tops. Also, I ain't even upset.

>>31064407
1) i'm not 15. I'm 30
2) my credentials are as I have presented them
3) I don't give a fuck what you believe. I'm just calling retards retards, because I enjoy doing that, and there are A LOT of fucking morons here.

>>31064221

stfu kid, i'm busy and shit. I have good job and you are fat. I am smart. I go to a good school and have good job. kid. you are stupid.

>>31064531
And I'm the combined consciousness of Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, and Mark Zuckerberg. You're retarded if you think just claiming something on the internet is proof. You keep calling people retarded, but you're the one that keeps name calling and raging. Seriously step back and take a look at your life, I get the feel that you're not very happy.

>>31058622
Poo in loo!!!

>>31058149
Jesus Christ.

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>>31058149
That's just poor maintenance.
Poor maintenance cause United Airlines DC-10 left engine to break off back in 1979 killing almost 300 people.

>>31065233
>Panel that should be able to handle 500lbs fatass without a mm of flex
>flexes and collapses under a 90 pound woman standing to a side, not even in the middle
>Poor maintenance

>>31057388
>>Aircraft computers made from consumer level electronics
whats bad about this
consumer grade electronics have largely technologically superseded government ones
hell destroyers used to run on windows, now they're switching to red hat.
only issue i can think is the rads, but that's not a big issue

>>31065947
Speed isn't everything. Hardening, shielding, durability, and so on.

>>31065967
>speed isnt everything
it is in your fucking comment
you said consumer level, not consumer grade
and there's no way they use consumer grade stuff, they'd at least use industrial grade, like you find in a jet airliner. nothing wrong with those avionics apart from maybe a small decrement in performance.

>>31066008
I'm not who you replied to, but China has yet to prove that the J-20 and J-31 are anything but talk, just like the T-50 PAK-FA.

>>31066008
>they'd at least use industrial grade, like you find in a jet airliner. nothing wrong with those avionics apart from maybe a small decrement in performance.

>whats bad about this
consumer grade electronics have largely technologically superseded government ones

make up your mind

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>>31065797
>blind
>pic related

obviously some fasteners missing

>>31066292
That's a really shitty design if a couple fasteners missing let it flex like that you moron. Also:
>Shitty security camera
>Spotting missing fasteners
Keep coming up with shitty excuses buddy.

>>31057388
Basically this. China's major technological shortcoming as of right now, besides microprocessor design (they make a ton but they don't design em) is in alloy and composite technology. This affects their next-gen aircraft building capability in the extreme. Everything you see of theirs that looks 5th gen is for the most part a plane that looks 5th gen even though underneath it all it's fairly simple.

Chinese, and Indian for that matter, manufacturing and business culture in general is about pretense. The pretense of something working properly is often as good, and sometimes better, than something actually working properly.

I'm an architect who has spent a few years in China. They style things to look modern, but the technology to make it properly modern just isn't there.

>>31063349
A huge amount of spying is legal public data collecting. It's relatively harmless and it's much better to note who is doing it and keep an eye on them then to fuck around with trying to arrest people that aren't, technically, doing anything wrong.

Also, some of them are ONI trying to find anybody stupid enough to give up classified information when asked nicely.

>>31066375
>flex in place
>entire panel displacement

dense motherfucker confirmed

>>31066417
China has a huge, hard time figuring out that when a specification says to use a expensive material that you can't just swap it out for alinimium or mild steel and get the same performance.

>>31066520
Watch it again, it flexes before shifting you little shit.

>>31066417
>I'm an architect who has spent a few years in China. They style things to look modern, but the technology to make it properly modern just isn't there.
Like how many offices like to have a pet White Guy who gets paid to sit there and look good.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/06/29/china.rent.white.people/

>>31066008
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with the aveonics package on a 737-800. It will get you safely to point A from point B, spot bad weather, communcate with the ground and provide all-condtions flying ability and a lot of useful assistant systems.

What it doesn't come with is a targeting and tracking radar, a search radar made to find aircraft not operating transponders, ground-search radar, radar warning receivers, defensive ECM, 360 degree IR warning receiver, strong encrypted communications, high bandwidth data-sharing and integration systems or IFF systems.

>>31066537
>shifting

exactly what I was saying shithead

>>31066562
Maybe anon was unwittingly their random white guy hired to make them look good, sure. But, what if whitey is right? What if he saw something that none of them ever noticed? If he was hired to just sit there and look pretty while occasionally doing the token assignment, it would make sense that he'd have a lot of time on hand to see things. Things that they'd easily overlook, but he wouldn't, since he's actually looking. But, that aside, what he's saying is true.

China's main weakness right now is advanced metallurgy and materials sciences. Without that, you can't have stealth coatings, let alone monocrystalline turbine blades.

>>31066730
You were saying it just shifted out of the way, which is not what happens.

>>31066800
>shithead
>AND blind

how does he do it?

>>31066918
WATCH IT AGAIN RETARD. It flexes a lot before bouncing and shifting you god damned idiot. Cheap, low spec materials, not just missing bits.

>>31067009
>flex
>displace

google it if you must dickhead

>>31067106
Jesus fuck, how desperate are you to prove that it's not even partly the fault of the manufacturer/installer?

>>31067120
>installer

we're finally making progress dickhead

>>31067235
No, you're just being an idiot, still.

>>31066417
For micros, it's the other way around. They design procs, but don't fab them. See Godson series.

Artichects shouldnt comment on CPUs

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>>31058149
Fucking terrifying, going to have a complex about them now.

This thread was nice and civil till the amerifats arrived and from then on it is all insults and name calling.

Americans single handedly are ruining this board.

>>31058640
>Why are people mad about violations of international law near vital trade routes?

>>31067309
Lolwhat? We pointed out the propaganda and you got enraged and flinging insults like poo.

>Americans ruining an America-based English language site whose primary topic is something the Chinese can't even own

>>31067334
>violations of international law near vital trade routes?

Fun fact: The US is not a signatory of the UNCLOS

It looks ironic and out of place when the US cites UNCLOS as an argument.

>>31067336
Haha. So entrenched in your propoganda that you cannot accept facts that run counter to your propoganda.

Right till around 200 comments people made counter arguments to something they didn't agree with. The last 100 comments are nothing but insults traded back and forth on educational qualification and being 14 year olds. Jeesus. I can see why americans are one of the worst tourists.

And this is a japanese board. English is not the intellectual property of americans. Now Off you go.

>>31067362
Dude, you know that the War of 1812 was what established the concept of National/International water boundaries, right?

>>31067252
>Freudian slips defeat
>weak sauce attempt to cover ass

you're not very good at this are you?

>>31067379
Wow, yoeu said nothing of value except "HURR I CAN'T HEAR YOU WITH MY FINGERS IN MY EARS."

It was YOUR SIDE screaming about their knowledge and expertise but posting nothing that backed up their propaganda posting here buddy.

>>31067386
>Meaningless shitpost with no counterarguments

>>31067362
Considering the dispute is between countries that signed UNCLOS.

>>31067413
Counterargument to what? You fucked up and admitted other guy was right. Go cry in a maxipad.

>>31067413

Not even an attempt to counter the accusations of being a loser?
At least you can handle the truth.

>>31057388
>>Just as deadly to the pilot as chinese made escalators and elevators

Solid Gold right here!

>>31067523
Psst anon, see my post above about deadly American made airliners.

>>31067566
kekity kek.

Even the Chinese cant top that. Escalator kills 2 person? American shittiness killed 300

>>31062802
Bitch more, Chicom shill. Their only airframes or armor that are even worth a shit are Russian copies.

>>31067482
U wot? I did no such thing.

>>31067498
And here we see the Chinese Web Brigade, or at least their Indian contractors, in full shitpost mode.

>>31067618

>Be amerifat
>get told his US propaganda is just...propaganda

Hurrr durr we wuzz superpower...!!vatnik shill50 cent chink gook fuck offREEEEE

When will you learn to talk without being juvenile? Have an argument? Make it motherfucker. Instead all you do is act like 14 year olds