The old FN 49.

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Shameless self promotion with stolen Google pictures.

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>>31035771
>Does anyone have any experience with these firearms?

Yes. Remember that the gas is adjustable (but hidden) and that you're best off starting low & working your way up until it's reliable. Not the other way around.

I'd also suggest replacing the firing pin if it's an original. Old & abused ones could potentially get stuck and go full retard. Something you generally don't want if you don't expect it in 8mm Mauser...

>The only reason that I'm considering it is because I found a matching scope, still in the box, at another LGS and I would love to put them together to make one sexy old battle rifle.

AFAIK all SAFNs were produced "scope ready". Belgian and Luxembourg rifles in .30-06 will be more accurate, but Egyptians should do fine, as long as you realize what you're buying.

>Finally, what would you guys think an average price would be? I've seen them range from $400-$1000+ on gunbroker.

No clue, I'm not american.

But it's the last elegant war rifle. It's also has very interesting history. If you want I'll consider writing a tl;dr later.

Thanks man! To be honest, I love tl;dr stuff. History is such a wonderful thing. I was a tad worried about the 8mm ammo being scarce / a pain to find. However I reload so what's another few dies to buy. With the ammo, I know there are different dimensions and types of 8mm, any idea if commercial ammo is the right match for the rifle?

There's something about her curves that I can't get out of my head.

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Well, the SAFN49 was pretty much ready in 1939. It was offered to the belgian army, as an alternative for the Mauser based bolt action rifles which the belgians used at the time. While the army was very impressed, they realized that if you added the necessary retooling time and cost, they'd be pumping out only one SAFN for every potentially produced 10 Mauser rifles. Seeing was looming on the horizon, they decided to go all in on Mauser production to outfit the army and militia. They assumed (rightfully so) that the semi auto would outshoot 10 bolt guns.

(to be continued)

>>31037492
>With the ammo, I know there are different dimensions and types of 8mm, any idea if commercial ammo is the right match for the rifle?

As long as it's in spec, I've never really heard of any issues really, as long as your gas is correctly adjusted.
If you overgas it, and have weak brass, it'll rip the rim clean off.

>>31035771
Weren't FN 49s capable of a full-auto modification by armorers?

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The rifle was designed by Dieudonné Saive, design partner of John Moses Browning. He is the man who brought us the FN FAL and finalized the High Power.

But as the army did not pick up his design, he focused on making preparations for the coming war. He did not have to wait long. Once the germans invaded, he destroyed the FN-H design archives and sabotaged as many production machines as possible. He and several colleages then fled through France to Spain. From neutral Spain, they rejoined Great Britain to aid the war effort.

>>31037611
>Weren't FN 49s capable of a full-auto modification by armorers?

Yes. They have also been modified to be mag fed and fire 7.62x51mm NATO. However FN did not do these conversions.

>>31037611
Only the Argentine models were capable of that. They used a modified trigger group and receiver, along with a 7.62mm NATO rechambering and detachable box magazines. These were exclusively used by their Navy.

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With Saive in Great Britain, he offered his assistance to the war office. He gave them the SAFN plans and suggested immediate production. The brits being stubborn as ever, did see the use of the gun, but considering they were sitting on a huge WW1 pile of .303Br, they did not want to entertain the idea of making the SAFN in .30-06 or 8mm Mauser. Not wanting to brush aside a potentially great design, they gave Saive a limited budget and small allotment of machining resources.

Saive set out to make a few test models of the SAFN in .303Br. The biggest hurdle by far was the fact the rifle was not designed to use a rimmed cartridge like .303Br. Having already exceeded the small budget, he only produced test models which were not 100% reliable. The british army asked him to refocus his skills on something else.

Seeing it as a personal defeat, he put aside his pride and fully became engulfed in the work requested of him. Having been JMB's partner and assistant at FN-H, he was intimate with JMB's many MG designs. Most of the war he spent optimizing MGs for faster production, longer endurance, lower weight and much raised rate of fire. These designs were intended for air use, and certainly helped Britain maintain their air defenses.

An FN49 will probably be my next purchase.

I'm torn between getting an 8mm one because they're cheaper and I already shoot 8mm, or a .30-06 because they're nicer looking and can hunt with it in my state (can't use 8mm for deer in Indiana). Help me /k/

I convinced my friend to buy one from a local flee market gunshot. We take it to the range with 8mm surplus Turkish ammo. First shot then upper hand guard flew off and the bottom one exploded into pieces. Apparently loads were very hot even with the lowest gas setting

>>31037763
Fuck typing on a phone but you get my point. Be on top of the gas system. Many many different 8mm loads

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OP here. This history lesson is awesome. Thank you so very much. I'm honestly concerned about paying too much for a dud of a firearm. Any specific things to look for on the 49's that would indicate a bad rifle? I know that some of you aren't American, but I'm still worried about the price. LGS has a $1.2k sticker on it. I'm sure I could talk him down but that's a big pill to swallow.

>>31037832
1.2k for an 8mm FN49 is way too much. You can get them on gunbroker for like $800

>>31037763
Turkish 8mm is well known to be too hot and dangerous to use in semi autos. You guys should have known better.

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As the war concluded, Saive returned to Belgium. At Liège, he found a nearly entirely destroyed FN-H.

The factory had been producing various arms throughout the war, most notably the HP/GP for the nazis, making it one of the few guns being produced and used by both warring factions (having been in full production at Itlis for the Canadians).

Saive set out to rebuild FN-H to its former glory.

Aside from restarting HP/GP production, as well as the standard Mausers, his first large commercial product was the SAFN49. The design was not unlike the one from '39, but it did have some tweaks.
The market was already flooded with Garands and similar rifles. The Americans were literally giving away Garands to any country willing to side with them against the communist threat. As a result, the market was flooded with surplus and new weapons, making it very difficult to get achieve commercial success with any new design.

The SAFN however achieved success in that it found a market with countries wishing to retain semblence of neutrality.
Obviously the Belgian (& Lux) army jumped on it, but the rifle found suitors in:
Argentina
Brazil
Colombia
Egypt
Indonesia
Turkey
Venezuela


>>31037763
>I convinced my friend to buy one from a local flee market gunshot. We take it to the range with 8mm surplus Turkish ammo. First shot then upper hand guard flew off and the bottom one exploded into pieces. Apparently loads were very hot even with the lowest gas setting

Hah. "Very hot". I doubt that that's the only thing going on. It's hard to blow up a SAFN. I think there was something seriously wrong with your ammo.
I've seen SAFNs fire ammo intended for machine guns (generally hottest surplus loads available) without too much issue and the gas properly adjusted.

Pic: Belgian SAFNs.

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The SAFN actually saw combat in a few conflicts, but the Korean War was obviously the rifle's biggest challenge. It operated great in extreme conditions, especially in the biting cold and murky heat.

There, the rifle was tested side by side with the Garand. Some sources say the SAFN was superior, but today opinions are pretty much split down the middle.
There was only one big complaint which arose from the Korean War: The SAFN stock was "likely to split after knocking down a few hard wooden doors". The idea along that you would take a rifle to butt down a door is considered rather laughable by modern standards, but at the time, that appeared to be a complaint.
Mausers with iron butts were suited for this task, so the Belgian army expected to do the same with the SAFN. Which turned out to be a poor idea.

Aside from this minor complaint, the rifle performed great and the fact all rifles were "scope ready", came in very handy.

>>31037832
>LGS has a $1.2k sticker on it. I'm sure I could talk him down but that's a big pill to swallow.

1.2k would be fair if it included the scope and the rifle was in rearsenaled condition.

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The scope is not included, that's at another store which wants $700 for it because it's literally new in the box. Again, I'm sure I could offer him $500 and he wouldn't say no.

Aside from using it as a door breaker, are there any other known complaints that are common to the rifle? Also, what's the accuracy like? I'm not expecting anything close to moa but mobg (minute of bad guy) at 300 would be really cool.

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Saive was able to rebuild FN-H further with the revenue from the SAFN sales and set out to create an updated rifle design, built for modern combat.
Saive was a large proponent of doing away with full power cartridges and aimed for a strong intermediate round. FN-H together with the Brits set out to design .270Br (later also .280Br to attempt to appease american "long range" complaints).
His assault rifle design would be a huge hit: the FN FAL. It's biggest short comings were cause by American meddling. While the design had been made around strong intermediate cartridges, the Americans forced NATO to adopt 7.62x51mm NATO, which was a barely scaled down .30-06. The FAL had to be upscaled to meet this requirement and as a result was not as controlable in full auto as had been envisioned.
It's not entirely without irony that the americans then later realized that 7.62x51 was overpowered and adopted a tiny 5.56x45 instead. Which now is found to be lacking in power, and now people are advocating cartridges closer & closer to the original .270Br design...

The FN FAL was Saive's masterpiece. Out of gratitude to the allied forces from WW2, he offered the FAL design, free of royalties to all countries which aided in Belgium's liberation. As a result, adoption was extremely wide spread and many offshoots such as the L1A1 were born.

Pic: 1937 prototype of the SAFN, which disproves the often heard complaint of the fact that Saive stole his idea from the SVTs which he might have seen examples of in Britain.

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Saive still had spite in his heart however, as (West) Germany wished to adopt it, but only on the condition that they could produce the rifle themselves. Saive said he would sell them the guns, but not license them the design for german production. He feared another pre-WW2 style build up in the long run, thinking it safer to keep production in Belgium and denied their request due to that.
Thus the G3 came to be, as West Germany started looking for alternatives they could produce locally. It's weird, but had Saive allowed production of the FAL by Germany, it's likely that the CETME/G3 would now be a curiousity not unlike the MAS47 and the MP5 might never have existed.

And so concludes the history lesson. :)

>>31038023
>Aside from using it as a door breaker, are there any other known complaints that are common to the rifle?

The firing pin, I talked about above.
Most other complaints come from people who don't know there's an adjustable gas system hidden in there or adjust it poorly.

>Also, what's the accuracy like? I'm not expecting anything close to moa but mobg (minute of bad guy) at 300 would be really cool.

Accuracy is not unlike a Garand's. It's reasonably close to war issue Mauser bolt guns. So not bad at all. At least that's for the Belgian guns. I have no experience with the Egyptians, but I hear quality was pretty damn good there too. The problem is mostly how they were (ab)used and poorly stored. If you can find one in good condition and tune it to use good ammo, it'll do minute of man at 500m easy.

>>31038120
>It's weird, but had Saive allowed production of the FAL by Germany, it's likely that the CETME/G3 would now be a curiousity not unlike the MAS47 and the MP5 might never have existed.
And that, kids, is how racism saved Upotte.

>>31037420
>Belgian and Luxembourg rifles in .30-06 will be more accurate,

If the barrels are made correctly they should shoot excellent in 8mm or .30-06 either way.

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>>31038619
>If the barrels are made correctly they should shoot excellent in 8mm or .30-06 either way.

It's not a matter of inherent accuracy of both cartridges, it's about how they were stored, maintained & handled. A good deal of Belgian SAFNs never left the arsenal and those that did were re-arsenaled & restored before being sold as surplus.

>>31035771
Did you see it at cabelas?

I saw one at my local one a few weeks ago but didn't get it because I'm poor

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You all are awesome, thank you so much. You're really persuading me that this is a good purchase if I can get the rifle for under $900. I'll ask tonight, the worst he can say is no.

Speaking of Upotte, I never thought my little Tavor could be sexier. Haha.

>>31038790
Local Jersey hole in the wall. Cabela's is like 1.5 hours away so I don't get there as often as I would like.

>>31038794
>like one of the worst modern rifles

>>31035771
Don't pay more than $700 for an Egyptian one. They're neat rifles, and usually well made, but nothing spectacular performance wise.

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>>31039815
Thanks for the heads up. I'll haggle with the guy for a bit.

>>31039611
I really don't understand the hate for the Tavor but hey man, to each their own. I've never had problems with it and I find it fun to shoot. But then again, I hate ar-15 styled firearms. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes.

>>31037708
I want to get intimate with JMB's designs ;)

>>31038120
Hey man, I really appreciate all the info and the help. I have copied it down so I can remember it for later use.

The LGS was open to $900 and they will find me a better scope for less. It's nice to have two competing LGS that hate each other for weird reasons. It's on layaway since I'm a poorfag, I mean adult with adult finances and adult things to adult about. When I get her in and all together I'll post up some pictures for you all.

I also got a heck of a deal on a chief's special .38 special. $200, which wasn't too bad.

Thanks again guys.

>>31040015
It's accuracy isn't on par with bullpups at the same price point. It's laughable.

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>>31044456
Why is everyone so focused on accuracy out of a combat rifle? Dare I say it was designed to hit a man sized target at 300m rather than do 3 inch groups at 300m. As I said, everyone has their likes and dislikes. However, I feel expecting moa or more accuracy out of a battle rifle is like buying a cat and expecting it to bark. I, personally, find the accuracy to be acceptable (as do many others) and that what it may sacrifice in accuracy is made up for my form and function. It isn't a moa gun and I don't think that it was ever intended to be as such. Just my two cents.

Picture isn't done by me, but that's fairly acceptable accuracy at 100m.

>>31046625
It's mostly that when you spend that much on a rifle, you would prefer it to also be accurate. I would have a hard time justifying a $1500+ rifle that shot $300 rifle groups