Are AKs actually shitty weapons or did I fall for a meme?

>>31013518
define "shitty weapon"

No AKs are vastly superior. Its just AR fags in denial of their purchase have to scream it sucks to make themselves feel better and not in buyers regret

>>31013532

that makes sense, there's a lot more AKs in the world than M-16/ARs

>>31013518
They're not shitty

They're brilliant rifles as long as you don't get any dirt, mud, water or too much oxygen on it.

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>>31013518

> AK is kill

> no

Where were you /k/?

>>31013518
oh look, a meme meme thread
IDK why people even respond to these any more

>>31013538

I thought they were supposed to be tough. What the hell is the point if they're not grizzly beasts of machines? Seems like a sissy piece of shit rifle

>>31013518
AK's were never shitty, they were great, but they are kind of dated, now.

I would like to finally see a modern AKM that allows for novice gunsmiths or armorers to unscew and replace barrels like an AR-15 or have an even easier way for a soldier to replace the barrel with few or no tools.

I also think the slightly tapered fat bottom X39 cartridge body needs to be dropped for strait walled rimless and necked down bullets like .300 BLK or 5.56mm instead of 7.62x39 and 5.45x39.

>>31013518
Both AKs and ARs are good weapons

>>31013561
it works fine in sandy, wet, and pretty much any other condition as long as its well made. they will jam of you pour mud directly into the action, like any rifle. AK and its derivatives are also pretty much the only choice for extremely cold weather conditions.

>>31013518
They are good but they are not god-tier like some people will tell you.

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What companies make non-shitty AKs now? Aside from Century being apparently shitty and Arsenal being apparently great, I haven't heard much else. With genuine Russian and Chinese shit being hard to find now, I dunno what to do.

I picked a bad time to get into this hobby. When I want to research a gun I always find forum posts from pre-2012 talking about how the guns I want used to cost three times less.

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>>31013518
An AK and an AR are like an Xbox and a PlayStation. Basically the same, with a few neat exclusives and different controls that suit different people, but seriously they're almost exactly the same yet fanboys will fight for hours every day to defend their choice.

>>31013518
Depends on the make and the manufacturer.
Norinco makes pretty good AKs/SKS, not that any Americunt can buy one

>>31013518
They're the weapon of choice for conscript armies and non-gov combat forces on a budget because they don't need much maintenance and are dirt cheap, especially in areas flooded with them in the Soviet collapse sell-off like Africa.

Are they "good"? Depends on what you want from your rifle. It'll never be a 1MOA tack driver, but the round's comparable to .30-30 for short range hunting, though a Marlin Levergun is cheaper and works fine.

It's a great range toy if you don't care about accuracy, though.

>>31013588

>AK's were never shitty, they were great, but they are kind of dated, now.

This.

>>31013518
At distances past 200 yards they're practically artillery with how much you have to compensate for bullet drop.

>>31013518
Nah, they're fine. Buy what you like, train often, have fun.

>>31013874
>>31013640
These.

>>31013588
>get rid of 7.62x39 and 5.45x39
Go back to your ar shit threads where you belong. 7.62x39 case has built the most accurate cartridges in the world for 50 years now. This is almost as stupid as arguing to replace the old Mauser spec cases like 308 with a 6.8/30 rem case. That's just fucking retarded.

>>31014445
is... is this bait?

>>31013605
>they will jam of you pour mud directly into the action, like any rifle.
NOT AN AR I SAW THE VIDEO FAGET

Just kidding. The AK likely failed that challenge because the carrier was all gummed up or there was a ton of mud stuck by the rear trunnion. That's the danger of all open gas systems.

>>31014559
>"b-but the AK would have passed the mud test if it wasn't for all that mud on it!"
neck yourself

>>31014628
Every piston gun is going to have that problem tho flim flam.

>>31014662
>b-but all pistons
I'm sure an HK416 doesn't have a problem.

More like the "loose tolerances" AK fans love to trumpet about actually are bad for reliability.

>>31014471

He is not entirely wrong.
7,62x39 is a very good intermediate caliber round, however he is probably a slav so it's the best invention since vodka and AKs itself

>>31014703
>7,62x39 is a very good intermediate caliber round
It does only half of the job. Intermediate caliber round supposed to create effective select fire weapon that is more powerful than SMG. But automatic fire from 7,62x39 AK is not effective, recoil is still too excessive.

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>>31014796

>>31013588
>instead of 7.62x39 and 5.45x39.
'Cept you know that 5.45 is the standard Russian caliber and plenty of companies make 5.56 AKs.
Also 5.45 > 5.56.

>>31013539
in the sticky

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>>31013518
Think of it like this: in a hundred years from now, in a deep jungle, when Abu will prepare to go to war against the neighbouring tribe, what rifle given to him by his grandfather will he pick? An AK or an AR?
>>31013538
gee, i wonder is there an AR capable of surviving this?

>>31013588
Why would you bother with this? If your AK is in need of a new barrel it will be cheaper just to buy a whole new one.
>>31014796
Only if you're a manlet.

>>31014963
>Only if you're a manlet.
And what sort of groups do you shot from full auto 7.62 AK from standing and prone position again?

>>31014983
Standing, firing from the hip on the move at 25 meter target, 10 cartridges dump, 15 cm group. Never fired FA while prone, in our military doctrine full auto was to be used strictly as suppressive fire, then go semi or very short bursts aimed shots while prone or behind cover.

>>31015064
>Standing, firing from the hip on the move at 25 meter target, 10 cartridges dump, 15 cm group.
>[citation need]
Post video.

>>31015076
1989, communist state, the only video cameras available were the size of a large suitcase and attached to a truck, so no, no camera footage. And why would the national television film a regular miltary exercise for the enlisted?

>>31013518

Its cheap to mass produce, easy to use and maintain, and despite it not being as sealed a system as an AR its actually quite reliable. A lobotomized monkey could learn how to wield it, clean, and kill with it.

Of course, you shouldn't fall for the "most reliable weapon on earth" meme. Its not idiot proof, you shovel mud into the action like a braindead redneck you will stop it. But even then getting it back in working order is much easier than most weapons if you actually get to that point. When an AR starts to seize, its much more of a maintenance hog. Not to mention cheap, steel case bimetal ammo is out of the question for an AR if you care about the life of your weapon, whereas an AK will digest it no questions asked.

Anyone who dismisses an AK as a piece of shit has never shot one. Or never been shot at by one.

>>31013605
Isn't it pretty much the difference between ease of a quick field strip, but a loss of being fouled externally vs. hard to foul externally, but more difficult to field strip on the go?

>>31015108
ok. i believe you :^)

>>31015161

Basically. I remember seeing a video recently of a guy demonstrating a worst case scenario by pouring loose sand, dirt, and rocks directly into the FCG via the open safety, firing and causing a jam, popping the dust cover and quickly tapping out the debris, cycling the action, and emptying the magazine without a failure.

And this was after a burial test where the gun functioned with no jams at all.

>>31013535
Not an AR fag, but there's a lot more ford focuses than ferraris in the world

>>31013518

Nice TD poser

>>31015325
Fair enough, but a Focus does have numerous advantages over a Ferrari.
>Easier to work on
>More reliable
>better fuel economy
>probably more passenger/storage space depending on the model

>>31014628
>mud on it!
Mud IN it.

>>31015342
He's from before the concept of TD, but you probably knew that.

>>31014471
No. Look up 6mm and 22ppc, and look up all the cartridges that share the 7.92x57mm base dimensions. Both are rimless designs that are pretty close to perfect for length/width to bullet diameter. 5.56mm is a really tiny case, and while I like 300blk, the dimensions aren't wide enough to fire larger projectiles with consistent burn rates.

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After they started making the newer 5.45mm AKs (post 1990) I don't have any clue why the 7.62x39 versions were maintained except as legacy weapons left over from the cold war banana republic days.

So your idea of an AK and my idea of an AK are kinda different. When I think of AKs I see AN-94, and AK-12.

>>31015656
Probably because there's still 20 million spam cans of 7.62x39 buried all over the world.

>>31015623

I had this discussion with someone recently. The 6.5mm grendel is a phenomenal caliber but I think the 300 blackout sorta missed its mark.

If the 300 black had used the 6.5mm grendel as its base, just necked out to 30 caliber instead, it probably would have performed much better. And it probably would have worked with subsonic ammunition using an even heavier slug.

Then again why not scale up from there since the case is wider and neck to .338 projectiles I wonder (better yet load the projectiles backwards like the .50 Alaskan does).

So I really think the 300blk suffers from that inefficiency, given the 6.5 case still operates in an AR magazine just fine.

Just imagine a 7.62mm Grendel, its intermediate in firepower between the .223 and .308. Its like what a 308 does starting at a hundred yards. And it fits in an AR mag. You get 5 less but so what.

>>31015827

Thats interesting, I was under the impression that almost all of the ammunition ever manufactured had been shot up already.

I figured any of the 7.62x39 being fired in 3rd world countries must have been manufactured in the last 10-15 years.

I mean there are still some arabs shooting Stick-44s and you gotta know there isnt any of that 8x33 ammo anywhere, thats all new stuff.

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>>31013640
So what the hell is a PC then?

>>31015945
This

>>31015910
I was being hyperbolic, but the way the Soviets overproduced cheap materiel to offload to anybody willing to pay was insane.

>>31015353
Except that not the AK. The AR is easier to work on. The AR shoots farther more accurately. The AR has a ton of real estate. The AR doesn't fail mud test.

>>31013640
yeah, the ps3 is more reliable than the xbox 360, but the xbox has more games (aftermarket)

>>31015945
literally every other firearm in existence simultaneously, just whichever one you want it to be when you build it friendo.

>>31015880
I'm pretty much of the opinion that 6.5 grendel is the best intermediate caliber that can be designed, and that the 300 blk is pretty much a good pdw cartridge but isn't much as far as a rifle cartridge goes. In a folding stock rifle though, with a 10" barrel, it's ideal for tankers and paratroopers etc.

>>31013518
Where did you get that from?

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>>31015994

>>31016960
Psh, that's just a feature on the AR to have the gun drop the mag for you once you're out.

>>31017014
It also blew the upper out. My guess is water in the gas line.

>>31017083
The gun is also very lewd

>>31016960
>Firing a rifle with water in the barrel causes serious failure
Well no fucking shit, Sherlock. What's next, a lit stove is hot and burns if you touch it?

>>31015945
The fucking G11

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>>31013640
This

I prefer AK for the sexy design and 7.62x39 but that's personal taste

>>31017120
Muh sealed system

>>31016960
I thnk its a lot easier to avoid inserting a magazine into AR, with its bolt open, then closing the bolt while completely submerged in water
While AK just doesn't like mud

>>31015945
SCAR, without a doubt.

>>31015064
>Firing from the hip
>15 cm group at any distance
lmao dude, are you serious?

>>31013532

The only people with any real regrets are people who can't afford to buy both.

You know if you actually save even a little bit of money, you can fucking buy both, right? What are you, a 12 year old rationalizing that his Dreamcast isn't shit because that's all mommy could afford for his birthday?

>>31017123
Thats fair.

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>>31018182
This. Idort mustard race. We need a photo like this for ARs and AKs if one doesn't already exist

>>31013588
>What is the Galil ACE
Sealed Kalashnikov, in 5.56x45, STAGNAG compatible, steel infused polymer reciever, with modern day """""""""asthetics""""""""

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>>31013532
Durability, sure. Accuracy? No comparison to an AR.

And if you want a rattle box killing machine the AK family is famous for, get an AMD-65

>>31019850
And they're not +$3,000. However, I thought the 5.56 wasn't out yet, just the 7.62x39.

Been constantly debating internally, that once I finally graduate school and start making money (pharmacy), on which rifle to get next. I have a SKS, so I already have an intermediate rifle and would like a .308 or 7.62x54r, but the Galil ACE looks to be a really nice rifle to also get. Maybe if I make enough after the first few payouts, I'll get both.

>>31014445
Sorry breah that goes to the 303 british

>>31015945
nugget
fuckin duh

>>31014559
>>31014689
No matter what the operating system of a gun is, it will jam if there's mud/clay/anything blocking the action. The reason why AR didn't fail In Range's mudtest is because the mud didn't get into the action. Also, AK was still operable, however it became a straight pull-rifle, but it still fired.

You should look at Mattv2099's videos where he stuffs an AK full of twinkies and those weird candies and it still cycles. Then there's videos of some other youtuber stuffing an AR full of both products and it fails to cycle.

Make your conclusions, but i'd still rather trust my life on AK than an AR.

>>31020066
thats a fair point, I'm curios to see if firing/cycling it a few times sans dustcover would get it back in working order.

>>31019919
Well, the 7.62x39 is only available for now. They do have a "COMING SOON" hinting the possibility of 5.56 coming over (hopefully)

>>31020066
>Also, AK was still operable, however it became a straight pull-rifle, but it still fired.
Good point.

>>31020110
Firing without the dust cover would have probably fixed it period. Scraping from poorly fitted dust covers alone can cause feeding malfunctions so I'd expect a dust cover full of mud wouldn't be any better.

>>31013849
>AK
>not 7.62x39

stop treating these like they are the same

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>>31015325
this

>>31020360
yeah I figured if carnikcon was able to shoot an ak reliably with a fucking ham sandwich in there ad bits flying around everywhere it had more to do with the mud having nowhere to go.

>>31017123
This is correct

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>>31015656
>I don't have any clue why the 7.62x39 versions were maintained except as legacy weapons left over from the cold war banana republic days

that's exactly it. when Izhmash really got its shit together on the AKM line, it was making 95 of them per hour, which is the tune of 800,000+ per year. they took them to the Middle East and Africa by the dump truck full.

makes perfect sense to me as to why they're still around. If Iran of all countries can still fly its 70s F-14As, there's no reason why a caveman-simple rifle designed to arm illiterate farmers and shepherds is still working today in numbers.

>>31013518

The AK-47 and it's spinoffs are the cheap inaccurate weapons of choice for impoverished, low intelligence non-whites. It is the right hand of communists, dictators, and aids infested niggers.

>>31019785
>implying I don't only own a current console because games are held hostage on the platform
PC Mustard reise still superior.

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>>31019999

quints of truth

>>31015945
SCAR.

Customizable, excessively expensive despite performing the same basic task as something that costs a fraction of the price and supported loudly on the internet by a small group of autismos who justify that price by parroting some variation of:

>"what's wrong? r u poor?"
>"my bullets per second are higher"
>"high resolution ergonomics"
>etc.

>>31019896
>ventilated front handguard
>no gas tube cover
>crutch folder
>no fancy front sight block/gas block combo
>barrel is comically short
I always liked how janky AMD65s look.

>>31021428
Almost forgot about

>using the standard foregrip makes 30rd mags a pain in the ass to use

>>31013532
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX73uXs3xGU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=synlZgnTnXg

>>31013518
They are like any other rifle platform out there. There are cheap shitty ones that can be worthless at times, and there are realy high quality ones if your willing spend the money.

>>31021483
See
>>31020066

>>31013640
What are PC & Nintendo then?

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>>31015945
An Intercontinental ballistic missile of course.

>>31016960
That's just a propaganda video for the hk416 though

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>>31013632
>With genuine Russian and Chinese shit being hard to find now, I dunno what to do.

Fun fact about Funland: Genuine Russian and Chinese AKs are cheaper than ARs and more plentiful than shitty American AK copies.

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Some guys did a fair mud test on the AR15 and the AK47 and they found that the AR was more reliable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX73uXs3xGU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAneTFiz5WU

It feels like a sacred cow has been tipped over. The AR is actually better at resisting poor environmental conditions.

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>>31024460
How many times have you engulfed your rifle completely in mud while being inna woods? That seems like a pretty rare occurrence to me.

Personally when looking at reliability I'd be looking at necessary maintenance intervals and resistance to cold, humidity and occasional dirt.

Don't know which gun would fare better but if I had to guess I'd bet on the AK.

>>31024460
See
>>31020066

Do you people even read the thread before commenting?

>>31015656
AN-94 only looks cosmetically like an AK pattern rifle.

>>31026026
Plus has a goofy pully-based two-round burst system.

>>31026037
That's probably the funniest thing about the AN-94, besides the very obvious canted magazine. Frankly, it's just a goofy gun altogether.

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>>31024460

Some guys did a fair 5000 rounds test on the AR-15 and the AK47 and they found that the AR's bolt would come apart before it could make it to 5000 rounds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfCUjjA2F4U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG7qbVUXnPI

It feels like a sacred cow has been tipped over. The AR is actually incapable of handling prolonged usage in a fair torture test.

(Are we done memeing now?)

>>31026068
>radical firearms
>reputable
No.

>>31026049
But highly effective

>>31024460
Initial resistance, absolutely. What these mud tests showcase well is that the AR is absolutely a more closed system. But eventually mud, sand and grit will penetrate into both. The big difference is the speed at which the rifle can be brought back up after going down. People seem to forget that when talking about reliability. Rip the dust cover off an AK and dunk the whole thing in water and you're good to go. Can't say the same about an AR.

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>>31026083
This.

AKOU illustrated this with their AR tests. After the so-"sand tornado" test on the AR, it did last longer, but it was far more of a pain in the ass to get back up and running.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHlFfhrDn2c

Here's a sand test done on an AK. It's actually quite phenomenal how quickly it could be brought back up and running just by popping the dust cover and emptying it out.

Not saying that the AR doesn't have some reliability advantages over the AK. But taking one video and holding it up as "proving the AR is objectively more reliable than the AK" is more of a fudd meme than "GIs threw away their M16s for AKs in Vietnam".

>>31026083
With an AR you literally only have to take the bolt out and dunk it in the water(rifle and BCG) them shove it back together. And you wont have to do it as early

>>31013518
AR fanboy and anti russoboo here.
AK's are not bad.
They're designed to be cheap and easy to make, retard proof and durable enough to be retrieved from the field and used again.

They're made for the low-budget-poorly-trained armies.

They're meant to be just guns.
Sure they can be competetive if you slap plastic furniture, modify the controls and slap rails everywhere.
But so will even a STG44.

Are they comparable to AR15's?
Not really, AR15's are fantastically modular and every part can be replaced.
AK's trunnion and barrel are welded onto the receiver, they can't do shit like convert entire gun to fire .50BW by just changing the upper in 2 minutes.

AR15's are just superior for first world use. AK's still have a niche because entire world isn't first world and there's still a market for stupidly simple guns for stupid and poor people.

>>31026179

You're not always going to have water handy m8, assuming that's enough to get the sand out.

The AR is great at keeping debris out, that's how it stays reliable. But God help you if sand, debris, or anything else occurs in that action during use, because your AR will be floundering until you can give it some proper sit-down-and-clean-it TLC.

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>>31026251
>barrel are welded onto the receiver

Pressed and pinned, but yeah, pretty much. If the AK had the capacity to swap calibers, or even just barrels, as easily as the AR, I would almost be willing to say the rifles stand as equals.

Fortunately the AK-12 should be able to do all that. I just wish a civilian model would hit the US market already.

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>>31026320

>The light version has the ability to change calibers by swapping barrels. The standard caliber is 5.45×39mm and can be changed to 7.62×39mm and 5.56×45mm.

>>31026251
SCARfag here
And antislav, as I was raised before wall fell.

AK is fine for slavs, mooselimbs, other third world countries. For poverty stricken systems, it excels in.

I don't live in a third world shithole.

The Russians are doing their damnedest to drag the design into the 20th century though. Hope it works out, competition breeds superiority

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>>31026320
>>31026345

>>31024460
The issue with the AR is it gums itself up, you don't need to add dirt or anything. You MUST keep lubricant and cleaning supplies in your kit. With an AK all you need is a water bottle to squirt into the action if in a strange turn of events you get attacked by a guy tossing balls of wet clay at you. You should have a water bottle anyway.

AKs don't need to be cleaned under normal, or even most bad circumstances. And if it does come down to something that has to be cleared from the action, it's much easier to do than breaking down an AR. Yes, it is more reliable and easier to maintain. It beats the AR on that clearly, other piston designs it's not that much further ahead, but the design is certainly more simple.

>>31026506
Not as much as you claim. A couple drops in the action before you go out is all you need.

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>>31026460

>dividing the lower in two to make the magwells swappable in order to accept 7.62x39 AK mags

I mean, it's a smart idea on paper, but that rings a whole bunch of alarm bells.

I'd prefer it if they designed the AK-12's magwell to be able to accept AKM/47 mags, AK-74 mags, and whatever 5.56x45 mags they use in the AK-101 series, only requiring swappping out the barrel, and bolt.

Even better if they'd design a mag that can accept both 5.45x39 and 5.56x45, shoved into an AK-12 after a barrel/bolt swap, and fire away.

>>31026891
The way it slides on (magwell going down over the rest) looks perfectly secure. Windham is the people and factory from before Bushmaster was bought out.

>barrel pressing
>headspacing