Is this wotrhy?

>>30973790

The slavs they will fight will have nothing better. 7.62 actually makes a lot of sense in a cunt like finland.

>>30973805
Outside of slavs do you think it would up?

>>30973790
>using 7.62x39

goddamn Finland, it's 2016

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>>30973841
>Using a bitch baby round
Yeah we get it, you're jealous of the stopping power .308 has to offer but your bitch baby arms can't handle it.

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>>30973790
Well, it's a perfected AK.

Reliable as hell, and way more accurate than its original, mass-produced older cousin. Plenty of small improvements in the innards and external designs too. Hey, jews copied it when making Galil, so there's that?

One "argument" against RK-62 especially has been that its diopter "peep" sights are a bit too tiny for quick targeting in combat scenarios. They definitely help longer range sharpshooting tho', and there's always the flippable open-style sights. Not to mention now that everyone's updating their gear, various optics are becoming standard issue, and thus remedying this non-problem.

So yeah... if yanks can still use rifles based on 1950's design and nobody complains, why would 1960s rifle not be "acceptable" ??

>>30973841
Fuck you. That shit just werks, no matter what.

>>30973790
I want one so badly.

>>30975017
jesus christ I want that furniture!
where can I get it??

>>30975135
>2016
>10lb rifle in 1930s German 200yd cartridge
KEK!

>>30975148
Seriously, why isn't green furniture used more often? It's sexy as fuck.

>>30973790
>>30973805
>>30975017
>>30975135
I take it Finns use Soviet/Russian cartridges because they're next door

>>30975135
I like it.
-t. american.

Wonder how much of the platform could be replaced with polymer and still be a functional equal.

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>>30975175
there's so much wrong in this, it hurts my brain.

plus, we're still kinda using Nuggets in form of TK-85. They still carry some 100yo Mosin bolts.

>>30975187
eh, besides the good ol' 7.62x39, and our own version of 7.62x54R, the x53R, not really no. We got no 5.45 weapons, and instead everyone's going pretty fucking NATO. Cops wield Sig 553s and G36Ks, and bunch of SCARS were bought for special forces use just last year.

That being said, the 7.62x39 was chosen back in the days for many reason, one of them being the fact that our "old enemy" was still using it, and the only intermediate cartridge available at the time. Later on some tests with 5.56 were done, but it didn't work quite as well in Finnish environment as the Ruskie .30 shorty.

>>30975017
>>30975017
I'm not one for custom colors/guns at that but that gun is sexy. Idk why but that green goes perfect

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>>30975289
it's practical and militaristic.
OD furniture instantly gives that green-collar look to it, and helps reduce the gun's shiny blackness.

Plus, OD works pretty damn well in surprisingly many environments, looking almost brown in right kind of lighting.

>>30975236
>He doesn't know the tech transfer between Russia/Germany during their non-aggression pact
>Shilling for a morbidly obese rifle in an obsolete cartridge
TOP KEK!!

>>30975236
I've heard 7.62x39 (and x54R) is well-suited for colder climates, I guess it's true

Personally, I prefer it over 5.56, but that's just my opinion

>>30975330
That awesome, thanks.

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>>30975336
>Yanks using up-sized .222 from early 20th century, originally meant to hunt birds and small game
TOP. KEK. x2.

hush now, little one.

>>30975340
It seems to be true. Bigger caliber = bigger mechanisms = more "aggressive" action, that's less likely to freeze shut. Especially when it's that simple yet practical Russkie design ideology.

>>30975017
We S.T.A.L.K.E.R now. if only I could get a lefty mod for it.

>>30975391
>Yanks using up-sized .222 from early 20th century, originally meant to hunt birds and small game
>It's soo good that the only two militarily relevant countries in the world copy it and throw away their outdated 7.62x39
TOP KEK!

>>30975566
how is 7.62x39 outdated?

>>30975566
more like yanks kept pushing their shit everywhere since they started acting like leaders of NATO, and managed to overshadow actually good designs, like the British .280.

>>30975603
he's a baiting troll, moron.

>>30975236
My friend had a Tkiv/85 in training built on a 1893 receiver

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>>30973790
Hell yes it is.
>shoots well
>goes dakka dakka when needed
>hard to break
>hard to get jammed
>piss easy to maintain

>>30975391
I'd say that in practical applications 5,56 trumps 762x39, just for the added firepower alone.
"Lol, woods n' shit" is no excuse, as 762 isn't much better at penetratibg wood and countries like Russia, Sweden, Canada etc. seem to like fast .22s even in their woods.

>>30973790
It is outdated in many ways, but still within the acceptable margin of an assault rifle.

People put way too much value on rifles anyway. As long as it shoots bullets relatively fast and reliably it is ok for 90% of the things. AA, aircrafts, radar systems, comms, armour etc. matter way way more.

That being said,when something has to be updated you should update it to somethibg with higher functional value. I'd love to see some ARs get into service here, but I doubt we'll replace RKs in decades.

t.>>30975893

>>30975947
Considering that M193 literally got deflected off brush and twigs during Nam and M855 has issues penetrating barriers, it's best if your nation sticks with 7.62x39. The ammunition you'll likely get would be SS109 which is the same damn thing as M855, and it's dogshit penetrating barriers unlike M855A1.

>>30975148
Got it from Brownells for 140 bucks. I think they still have it, look up "OD green NATO length ak furniture"
Should be arsenal/kvar branded on their site.

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>>30975017
I'll post more of my bae I guess.

>>30975135

lipstick_on_a_pig.png

>>30976527
But that's not a photo of your mother

>>30976032
>M193 literally got deflected off brush and twigs during Nam
That was because of the 1-in-12 twist barrels.

>>30975893

7.62 x 39 trumps 5.56 x 45 particularly in being much less brush-sensitive - and Finnish terrain is forests, forests, swamps, more forests... Also since there is relatively little open terrain (other than parts of west coast, but we are not exactly expecting Sweden to attack us) engagements would happen from rather short distance - hence lower trajectory provided by 5.56 is less useful than in most other countries.

We have a shit-huge existing stockpile of 7.62 x 39 caliber rifles & ammunition and industry that manufactures it when needed, hence replacing everything for the marginal benefits that 5.56 round would offer just is not worth the financial cost.

>>30975947

> I'd love to see some ARs get into service here, but I doubt we'll replace RKs in decades.

Let's face it - from manufacturing development point of view AR rifles with their aluminum receivers are already old-fashioned. Practically all newest assault rifle designs use synthetic materials in much larger extent for very good reasons.

I acruelly considered getting one instead of my KAC but the $200 magazines are kind of a turn off
It's still my fav ak variant

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>>30975181
My Zulu Warrior brethren!

>>30976463
Is that stock NATO length?

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>>30975947
>I'd love to see some ARs get into service here, but I doubt we'll replace RKs in decades.
yeah, I'd totally love to see more Jam-o-matics be thrown to conscripts... NOT.

>>30980361
Yes.
Not for manlet slavs.

>>30980888
That looks like it's from the 70's or 80's.

Look up what a Diemaco C7 rifle is.

>>30980888
>memes
Yeah. That must be why Norwegians, Canadians and Russian SF all use ARs, right?

That test is of dubious credibility and has been critisized a lot.

>>30980905
>Russian anything
>ARs

I don't believe you

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>>30980923
The most elite forces, the ones that have a say on what they use, use almost predominantly western stuff.

>>30980923
Special forces can get their hands on a lot.
Though it's expensive, I know there are AR-15 rifles made in Russia.

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>>30980923

People who know what they're doing drop AKs for ARs.
Go figure.

>>30981040
People have a hard time believing a country like Russia would use any kind of American weapon. Go figure.

>>30980983

Mind naming exactly which Russian special forces units are using AR-15 and what is their role in scheme of things?

I am asking simply because for example police SWAT teams and equal have a role quite and therefore requirements that can be quite different from those of frontline infantry.

>>30981099

Operators aren't limited to standard issue weapons and equipment and don't give a shit about what guns are "OK to use" politically, go figure.

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You can think of ARs and AKs being on two different curves in reliability.

ARs, built tight, having dust covers and other features in place to keep external sources of fouling from intruding into the action, are and remain reliable for a while after being diligently cleaned and lubed. However, the more you fire it, the more internal buildup is experienced, causing a gradual decline in reliability.

AKs, (usually) built loose, having gaps through which dirt, dust, and other things can get into the action, can get unreliable if an adequate amount of intruding material is introduced (e.g. coarse sand lodging between the receiver and the bolt carrier). However, there is little effect on the action from internal buildup when firing, and indeed firing the gun rapidly expels the worst of any built up intruding material. Once you get the gun to cycle and fire once, the reliability actually increases.

Thus, from the user's point of view, the AR is vastly preferable due to its other qualities if he expects to be out in the field at most a few days at a time. However, when prolonged engagements are expected under difficult conditions which might preclude the meticulous maintenance required by an AR, the AK becomes the preferable option.

tl;dr: like has been said many times before: if you live at an FOB and shoot at ragheads on your daily patrol, pack an AR. If you're innawoods, fighting the advance of an endless russian horde, bring an AK.

>>30981200
>However, the more you fire it, the more internal buildup is experienced, causing a gradual decline in reliability.

EAG has a rifle called "filthy 14", that's well over 40K rounds without being cleaned. They only lube it and replace broken bolts.

>>30981245
And no doubt it would continue to fire for another 40k rounds WITHOUT lube?

>>30981245
>>30981263
Also, broken bolts? WTF is it chambered in to break the bolt with 40k rounds?

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Step up, nigga!

>>30981200
>the more internal buildup is experienced, causing a gradual decline in reliability
t. has never shot an AR

You can literally just cake the internals in lube and never clean it and an AR will run for tens of thousands of rounds.

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>>30975232
Polymer does not like -35 C.

>>30981135
At least Alpha has been seen using ARs in training.

Also some of the little green men in Crimea used ARs.

>>30981331
Canadians and Russians seem to disagree, as they use a lot of polymers in those temps.

Not every polymer is shitty ABS.

why not just use an AR in 7.62x39?

>>30981269
>implying 40 000 rounds isn't relatively high

>>30981426
Because that's either an AR-15 rigged to fit and fire 7.62x39mm, which means:
>fairly expensive
>magwell has to be enlarged and redone, because 7.62x39mm doesn't fit in a 5.56x45mm magwell
>footprint of the 7.62x39mm fits poorly in the dimensions of a standard AR-15 bolt-head, the material around the cartridge ends up being thin and brittle, these guns almost always explode or fail, not because an AR bolt can't handle the pressures, but because you can't make an AR bolt thick enough in an AR-15 to actually withstand those pressures properly
>just as a thought experiment, if you made a 7.62x39mm cartridge with a rebated rim the size of the bottom of a 5.56x45mm cartridge, pressure would be no problem

Or it will be a sized up gun (or built from an AR-10 receiver) and this gun will work and hold up, it'll be reliable, but it'll be expensive as sin because this is a matter of a bunch of proprietary or uncommon parts, this kills a lot of the savings you make on 7.62x39mm ammo.

It makes much more sense to just rebarrel an AR-15 to .300BLK, that's cheaper to do and if you build up an industrial scale for .300BLK (because you'd be an army procuring it as a standard) you can make it cheap enough, they can already use .308 projectiles and reshape .223 brass

>>30981333

So FSB Alpha Group - their main tasks seem to be counter-terrorism & hostage rescue. Not exactly the troops that be geared towards spending weeks or months in frontline combat.

As Crimea in 2014 it seems that the Russians sent pretty much any troops, who had decent training, hence it could have been Alpha again. Although 76th Guards Air Assault Division was apparently the main unit.

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>>30980901
late 80s, yes.
And I'm well aware of Canadian syrup ARs.

>>30980905
>That must be why Norwegians,
use HK 416s, and even they complain about it all the time, still prefering G3.
>Canadians
another custom-built thing, but still not fit for long period innawoods living in arctic environment.
>and Russian SF all use ARs, right?
Handful of snowflake Ukraine infiltrators totally represents the entire country's military force.

The only reason AR is so "popular" now is because the insane amounts of surplus guns and parts Americans keep spreading around the globe. And since every other NATO country has already adopted an AR in one form or the other, the neighbors don't even bother to consider alternatives anymore.

>>30981426
Why not just use AK / RK in 5.56?

>>30978538
>Practically all newest assault rifle designs use synthetic materials in much larger extent for very good reasons
This pretty much. Steel infused polymer is the new fad in reducing weight. And it would have been great to make a sealed design of the RK like the Galil ACE (But with superior asthetics)

>>30980888
>FNC Para
>1986
WHAT THE BLOODY FUCK!? WHY THE FUCK DO THEY GET FNCS AND WE DON'T

>>30981575
>>30981426
>What is the LAR 47
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=558

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>>30981040
people who need to spend days, weeks, months even, living and fighting in shitty conditions, with no breaks or external maintenance, tend to drop ARs for AKs.
Seen it happen in many long combat training courses.

>>30975175
This better?
.308 RK.

>>30982151
>https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/5/28/review-rock-river-arms-lar-47-x1/

>https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/rock-rivers-new-lar-47-line-ar-ak-new-gun-review/

>>30982170
>Responding to a shitty troll
Just show a 5.56x45 export RK and stop feeding the faggot

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>>30982193
But it was a delishus bait.
>just show a 5.56x45 export RK

How about... 5.45x39, masked as AK-74?
100% Canada legal too!

>>30973790
It's reliable, accurate and well made. With the upgraded RK 62M both of the major downsides will be fixed, i.e. the stock and mounting of optics.

So yes, it's still a very capable rifle.

>>30982247
Whats wrong with the stock? I recall it being pretty comfy and robust.

>>30973790
My opinion is that I want some civilian versions of it here in the US.

But 922r will just fuck it over, I'm sure.

>>30982170
>people who need to spend days, weeks, months even, living and fighting in shitty conditions, with no breaks or external maintenance, tend to drop ARs for AKs

If you can't find the thirty seconds in your day to pour some lube into your rifle (which is all that is required to keep an AR going indefinitely), you're already dead.
And if you ever met any Russian, Finnish or other grunt, you'd know their superiors are just as super anal about maintenance as in the US armed forces. None of them have ever shot an AK that has not been cleaned for more than 500 rounds in a go.

>>30982269
the tube stock can't be adjusted, and today with all these superduper tacticool plate carriers etc. troops want telescopic stocks, RK's tube stock is very impractical with a plate carrier (been there, done that)

>>30982269
It points downwards, so it's hard to get your cheek to rest on it properly and that makes aiming harder. If the stock was straight, there would be no problem with the design itself. Straight stock would also make handling recoil easier. RK 95 TP is more ergonomic to shoot. Also this: >>30982340

>>30982321
Lube freezes in cold and RK works without it. Don't have any experience with ARs in cold, so I'm not going to comment on them.

>>30982065
It says a lot, that when given the choise, almost all SF groups choose to use ARs, even in Russia.

How many groups have switched from ARs to AKs?
How many people have switched from AKs to ARs?
Exactly.

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>>30982321
>using guns that need to be lubed to work
This always boggles my mind.

And I was a Finn-grunt, and we only ever cleaned our rifles of shit and foul left by blanks, and only when we returned to barracks.

>>30982356
>Lube freezes in cold
Depends on the lube, fag.

If that were the case, you couldn't operate a car engine in cold either.

t. Finnfag who has never experienced a failure with an AR, not even in -41C, despite neglecting the shit out of it

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>>30982356
>Lube freezes in cold

Lube not meant for cold does.

>>30982370
An AR can run for thousands of rounds with no cleaning. And actually they do remarkably good with no lube, too.

The cleaning regime the FDF uses is way way more than what you'd need with an AR. Or any rifle, for that matter.

>>30982370
all semi autos benefit from lube, as you have metal against metal.

a more complex design will need a bit more attention to detail and regular lubrication.

you CAN run simpler designs without lube but they will wear out faster and often be more prone to malfunction.

one little thing I do is polish all of my ammo. I have not had a FTF or FTE for years and that is no shit friendo. Keeping things slippery and smooth makes the medicine go down more reliably.

>>30982383
Good for you.

>>30982386
I don't know what it is that they issue us but it freezes. Still, RK works without it.

>>30982370
this, I have always dried my issued Rk of oil before shooting it & only oiled it an hour or so before cleaning it so that I can turn it in. Nowadays my reserve unit doesn't even have an instructor/a career officer in charge of our exercise inspecting our rifles before we turn them in, we just clean them until we ourselves feel satisfied with them and turn them in, if someone didn't clean theirs properly, some conscript corporal in the armory will have something to do in the near future...

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>>30982403
the only reason FDF is so anal about the cleaning is because they want those 40 year old guns to be still in tip-top condition for another few decades, because there's no more coming any time soon, and even manufacturing new parts is pain in the ass. The non-chromed barrel only adds to this fact.

>>30982438
pretty much this. Nowadays conscripts pretty much just pull a boresnake through the barrel, and call it a day, unless there's a special inspection coming up.

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>>30982417
During my time, the recommendation was to use pure Kerosene as the oil replacement, if the temperature was extremely cold. The stuff would obviously burn away if you'd fire a gun in an emergency.

As a side note, some people don't seem to understand that FDF does not put conscripts to oil their guns for the sake of lubrication. It's merely done for preservation purposes, and to help cleaning out the sticky shit that may have gathered in the barrel.

>>30982503
That's an option but it doesn't do much.

>>30982503
this, I bring my own gun oil with me to exercises (got it in a gas station where it was sold as anti-freeze for car locks, but it's originally intended as gun oil, the instructions on the bottle say it freezes at -54 celsius), I try to clean as much of the powder residue/other crap that accumulates in the receiver, bolt and the bolt carrier just to be thorough.

>>30980012
what handguard, friend?

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>>30973790

These are the best AK rifle their is, bar none. The build quality is off the charts, the trigger is good, love the sights, cant fault them

>>30982151
Yes, that was what I was referring to in my second example, it does work fine, but notice the $1200+ MSRP of the fucking thing.

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>>30975017
OD furniture is just so damn sexy

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>>30983530
I love Olive Drab Green and Foliage Green plastic furniture and grips, soft, subdued colors that go well with parkerized and matte black finishes.

>>30973790
What kind of panties would that stock be?

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>>30973790
>Give me your honest opinion of RK 62 (also 7.62 RK 62 and M62

It's okay I guess. People who say it's the be all and end all of ak's are full of shit. It's a fucking heavy ass 7.62x39 and the reason why you have so many faggots like >>30975135 that are most likely 19 year old virgin finnish conscripts that have only touched an RK as their only firearm so they tout it as the best.

Sorry finnfags, an ak105 with aftermarket will always shit on your stuck in 1969 rifle. Get with the times.

>b-b-but muh lapoopa boolits!11

>>30984158
I really dont get how is it heavy?

Like seriously 6lbs is too much for you? And at the same time your "L"MG the saw weighs around 30lbs but thats just ok? And when PKM weighs only 20lbs it's just "Yeah, nah. Not that big of a difference." Like what the hell?

>>30984361
so much this, if 6lbs is too much for you, maybe go to gym a bit more often instead of bitching about the weight on /k/?

>>30984101
Spats

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>>30984158
>faggots like >>30975135 that are most likely 19 year old virgin finnish conscripts that have only touched an RK as their only firearm so they tout it as the best.

nice prejudices, fag.

I'm borderline 30, own my own funs, and have had chance to shoot various firearms during my life, including AR.

I prefer just about any AK over ARs, and RKs just work pretty fucking good at that. Haven't had chance to try those "Modernized" versions, but they seem to pretty much address the few complains people might have on them these days.

>AK105
You will never ever own an actual 100-series gun, with their counter-weight recoil dampening systems and all anyway. Take that off, and it's pretty much the same gun that was released in 1940s, in different caliber and polymer furniture.

>shit stuck in 1969
Wew... like your beloved ARs, that actually use 50s design for the most part? Even the M4 is nothing but a standardized XM177 derivative.

>>30984361
seconding this. An AR with tons of toys quickly climbs over 6lbs, and a piston upper, something I'd consider a must in the Nordic environment, would start tickling that 8lb weight in no time.

>>30984680
>100-series gun with their counter-weight recoil dampening systems

Not that guy but the 105 doesn't have that and neither has the absolute majority of 100 series rifles. I believe he was refering to the fact you cling to 7.62x39 despite every major player uses SCHV rounds (protip: they have woods, too).

>and a piston upper, something I'd consider a must in the Nordic environment

Why would you go out of your way to prove you don't know shit about anything?

>>30984680

>a piston upper, something I'd consider a must in the Nordic environment

You are full of shit.

t. another Finnfag

>>30984767
As explained earlier the reason why we cling to 762x39 instead of upgrading to whatever is the same reason Nato has not changed to objectively superior cartridge like 6.8mm. The massive costs for minimal difference in effectiveness.

And for the piston argument, I could see the shit from even AR type "di" in the internals adding up and freezing in extreme temperature shifts. Additionally that shit is probably also good in attracting moisture from the air. For example when sitting in a warm tent and drying your clothes the air gets pretty humid. Then when you go out your rifle probably fucking freezes.

At bare minimum I would atleast want a charging handle I can use to kickstart my rifle after it has frozen shut because condensation when going between warm vehicle and -9000° frozen hell.

>>30984767
>I believe he was refering to the fact you cling to 7.62x39 despite every major player uses SCHV rounds (protip: they have woods, too)
different anon, when you have shit-tons of 7.62x39mm ammo & coupel hundred thousand assault rifles using it stockpiled, you don't simply switch calibers just because everyone else has cahnged to different calibers, seeing as teh change would leave a huge stockpile of ammo that would just go to waste because politicians afraid of surplus being sold to someone who sells the ammo to some terrorists in Goatfuckistan/rebels in some African country torn by civil war where it would then be used to commit attrocities & the pictures of the spent Lapua casings next to the bodies being plastered on every newspaper's cover...

...I got a bit sidelined there, in any case the stockpile of now useless ammo would be disposed of rather than sold, then there is the acquisition of the rifles in the new caliber, buying 200 000 new rifles is expensive, rechambering existing rifles for new cartridge is also expensive, usually impractical, and in some cases outright impossible, meaning that most likely there would be a purchase of 200k new rifles, followed by scrapping & melting of the old weapons.

Only as soon as anyone even proposed buying 200k rifles in a political climate where military spending is being cut constantly, the proposal would be shot down.

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>>30984767
>>30984907
Having an opinion now negates knowledge?
Yeah, this certainly is still 4chan.

My point still stands. Either you get me a piston-upper, heavy barrel AR, or I'll stick to my AKs.

>every major player
only reason the .223 is so popular is the relatively low cost resulted by surplus supplies of both ammo and weapons using it, which also has resulted pure peer-pressure in many countries.

7.62x39 still kills you dead, punches through bushes and snow better than 5.56, and RKs especially have no problems hitting a man-sized target at distances of 400 meters. It still fills the basic need and more in modern battlefield, which nowadays tends to be mostly all about indirect fire and information control anyway.

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>>30984680
>Even the M4 is nothing but a standardized XM177 derivative
No, buffer is different, springs are different, ejector is different, gas-port is different, muzzle device is different. The XM177 is based on an A1 receiver, the M4 is based on an A2 receiver.

>piston upper, something I'd consider a must in the Nordic environment
Putting a short-stroke piston on an AR-15 literally doesn't give you any advantage beyond slightly slower heat-buildup.

The Diemaco/Colt Canada rifles have all solved the issues of extreme cold affecting the action, a C8 carbine can do pretty much everything a HK416 can do, but cheaper, lighter, better inherent accuracy and slightly less recoil.

>>30984680
>You will never ever own an actual 100-series gun, with their counter-weight recoil dampening systems and all anyway.

Wow, finfag is noguns as fuck, who would of thought?

>>30980361
I don't even know how you can tell, it only adds and inch.

>>30982210
BRUH MUH DICK!

>>30985103

What's actually different about the Canadian ARs that makes them work in extreme cold?

>>30985185
Different materials, tolerances, and clearances.

>>30983246
Then don't be poor :^)

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>>30984578
Nope, That tube stock can fold, they're thongs.

>>30985020
>Having an opinion now negates knowledge?

When the opinions are based on memes, yes.
A heavy barrel profile is completely unnecessary unless it's a belt fed or target rifle. If you look at the actual barrel wall thickness on the RK or any other 7.62 AK, you'll notice it's basically the same as a pencil profile AR's.
Piston AR uppers introduce more problems than they solve, and they certainly don't bring you any benefits in extremely cold conditions (they actually have more parts that can stick together when atmospheric moisture condenses and freezes in the gun after you move from the cold inside and back again). So unless you make the gas port fuckhuge, it will do the same or worse job than a DI.

>>30985254
only a special version has folding stock, I have only ever seen one with my own eyes.

>>30984680
>didn't deny being a virgin
>no mention of conscription

Goddamn sivarineitsyt

>>30985103
>it just changed clothes, so it's totally a different gal!
Sure thing. By that logic, RK-62M is an all different firearm from the original RK-62.

>putting a short-stroke piston
I'd prefer long-stroke anyway.

>Canada rifles have all solved the issue of extreme cold affecting the action
So it seems, but at what cost? Is there a sizable surplus stockpile of them lying around so people can purchase them for cheap? And more importantly, can it withstand continuous beating and abuse of conscripts year after a year?

One of the bigger problems with traditional, buffer-tube utilizing ARs is that if you bust the stock, the gun's pretty much out of action as well. I know there's some more rare variants that don't have this issue, and incorporate folding stock and such instead, but that'd mean sacrificing the large surplus and 3rd party part availability.

>>30984919
>'kickstarting AR is impossible'
>not knowing about mortaring

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>>30985377
>>30985124
>all these obvious 16yo ramblings
it's cute how AR fags are such insecure children, with no military experience whatsoever, who need to utilize trash-talking in order to sound cool and hide their lack of real arguments. :)

Sorry to bust your bubble, you two, but I'm neither virgin, nor a Sivari, nor am I planning to put my dick into AR.

Every military with AKs slowly switching to something else.

Every military with ARs keeping ARs.

Every SF group that has the freedom to choose their own weapons choose ARs.

Most countries that use AKs have very low GDP.

Lol.

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>>30986071
>Every military with AKs slowly switching to something else.
except, you know, the original users, and a handful of Asian countries. Heck, India just ordered a bunch of AK-103 rifles.

>>30985745
>it's cute how AR fags are such insecure children

And it's even cuter how you have a tacked on rail with nothing, posting from a laptop in your mom's basement.

Why are you so upset?

>>30986283
>And it's even cuter how you have a tacked on rail with nothing
didn't feel like digging out my Bushnell for the sake of some mid-night photoshoot.

>mom's basement
my mother lives in a flat.

>why are you so upset?
Who's the upset child here?
You still haven't mentioned a single thing about the weapon, and keep replying like a typical (You)-hungry /b/-tard.

tl;dr: U mad, and AK/RK > AR.
:)

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>>30986340
>bushnell
>still lives with his mom
>nc star side rail

Keep accusing me of being an arfag. Everyone needs a boogeyman. Yours just happens to be somebody who can actually afford a $600 rifle

>>30985338
That would be the M76F with the folding tube stock

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>>30986375
>afford a $600 rifle
I happen to own a 700€ rifle, in form of a .308 Vepr, with an optic. I just got no interest in your plastic NATO toy that needs to be kept wet to be a smooth ride.

Who knows, maybe I'll apply for a .223 RK this winter.

>>30985338
All our moped messengers had one during my service time.

>>30986177
Don't forget Latin America and their orders for Galil ACEs, along with Columbia making licensed variants

>>30986425
nope, milled receiver so not M76, kind of stood out in the career personnel's rifle rack, being slighly longer and all...

>>30986442
>eurocuck lying about owning an ak

keep pretending to be not mad.

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>>30986177
Different fag here

>except, you know, the original users
They have come pretty far from the rifle that the RKs more or less mimic. Not even the Russians use milled 762x39s anymore.

If Russia wasn't so goddamn broke and the AEK program didn't have its problems, they would have ditched the 74s already, thus leaving the last things Kalashnikov actually designed.

This being said I actually like the 62M program as it saves money. I think that the AR is a superior rifle in a military context compared to the AK/RK, but at the moment FDF shouldn't be putting money in rifles as the ones we have are adequate enough. We should buy more comms gear and shit like that.

AR>AK 4 lyfe

(Btw. I own mostly slavshit, because I like it more. It doesn't mean that AK is better, I just personally like it better.pic related, some of my slavshit)

>>30986498
different Finnanon here, plenty of people have AKs, ARs etc. here, I am planning on getting a milled Arsenal & replacing the manlet stock with a telescopic one, maybe also replace the dust cover with one with a rail & find a decent diopter to mount on it while I save up the money to get a decent scope...

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>>30986490
my buddy had a stamped RK-62 with that oldass furniture. Were those rare or something? It definitely felt a bit lighter.

>>30986498
Still not mad, unlike certain someone.

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>>30986554
>different Finnanon here, plenty of people have AKs, ARs etc. here,
This.
Why can't we all get along?

>>30986798
is that a Russian Mosin?

Finnbro, can you not get your hands on a Finn Mosin?

>>30987232
>Finnbro, can you not get your hands on a Finn Mosin?
muricans bought them all

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>>30987232
>is that a Russian Mosin?
yup.

>Finnbro, can you not get your hands on a Finn Mosin?
I could've, but it would've costed twice more.
Plus I'd wanted the M44 for quite some time anyway. It's a lovely fireball thrower, and the folding spike's a neat extra.

>>30987269
>tfw a guy is offeribg me a perfect M44, produced in 1960s, that has never been fired
>tfw I know I want it but my wallet says no

Life is pain

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>>30973790
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCIjTTPndac

>>30988204
>Alex C.
no

>>30988409
>fuck off Alex!
FTFY

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>>30988188
I paid 200€ for mine.
It's produced in 1945, had been shot literally a handful of times before, and came with a couple boxes of hunting ammo. Sweet little thing.

>>30982285

Well - you are never going to. Manufacturing ended in late 1990's and even the production line is long gone. Besides - Sako (only remaining Finnish manufacturer) is now owned by Beretta, who recently tried to force Finnish Defense Forces to adopt ARX 160 to at least experimental use with threat of transferring Sako factory to Italy. Guess how interested they would be rebuilding the production for Finnish assault rifle design...

>>30988953
>Finn company bought by Beretta

I'm sorry, you didn't deserve that

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>>30982285
>My opinion is that I want some civilian versions of it here in the US.
Several versions WERE imported to USA years ago. You just gotta find them, and persuade their owners to sell them to ya.

>>30986071

>Every SF group that has the freedom to choose their own weapons choose ARs

While SF of Finnish Defence Forces, which also have freedom to choose their own weapons, chose FN SCAR instead of AR...

Heck even when Finnish Police recently decided to buy 5.56mm rifles, they bought H&K G36 instead of AR.

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>>30989144
>Heck even when Finnish Police recently decided to buy 5.56mm rifles, they bought H&K G36 instead of AR.
They also dig the shorter Sig500 guns.
Good taste.

>>30989144
>SF of Finnish Defence Forces
>freedom to choose their own weapons

Implying. Even Karhu units don't have much say on their own weapons, as choosing the guns seems to be up to some high-level fuckwits.

Btw. The SCAR isn't really even better than an AR, especially for the price.

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>>30981200
>that webm
Senpai noticed me!

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>>30986554
Can confirm

>>30981297
What in the fuck is that an ohio ordnance 7.62x39 galil?

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>>30989918
Sako RK-92S,
the civilian semi-auto variant of the Sako RK-95TP

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>>30989918

>>30985424
Mortaring an AR?

>>30989946
Too bad it's mostly unobtainium in the usa

>>30989760
>>30989946

So this is also a RK-92s?
Just asking.
Can I get your guys's opinion on the galil?
I read somehow they snuck one over there and beefed it up for arid desert environment and it was creme of the crop except for weight, those crazy juice.

>>30990920
>So this is also a RK-92s?
nope, it has folding stock & three positions on teh selector (you can see the fullretard and semiauto notches), so it's Rk-95TP

>>30990920
>>30990950
I mean, the cosplayer has Rk-95TP, the other one next to an AR is Rk-92S (actually M92S as Rk is a military designation, but who cares...)

>>30988409
I don't get why people dislike him. I know he jerks mauser dick, but he's right. Are poor Fags just mad that he has a great collection? Or is it that he dislikes the tavor or some shit meme?

>>30985378
>One of the bigger problems with traditional, buffer-tube utilizing ARs is that if you bust the stock, the gun's pretty much out of action as well.

What? No, if the stock breaks, the stock is broken. The buffer tube doesn't break when the stock breaks.

>>30984680
>Even the M4 is nothing but a standardized XM177 derivative.

Uh... no.

>>30990998
Because he was a tripfag here and only wants machine guns for rich people.

He basically said you have to pay to play, and if you're poor too bad, that's the way it should be, etc.

>>30991028

Was he Squid then?

>>30991028
I can see how that would make alot of people on this board pissy because 60% of the people on here are poorfags. I do kind of agree that full autos should have a price barrier. I'm not going to agree that they should be ridiculous, but cheap autos for dindus is a bad idea.

>>30991064
>>30991028
Forgot to add in that paper would should be required for autos but the ATF shouldn't just be able to slap their dick on it and send it back to you with precum all over and a dick drawn on it.

>>30991064
I think Alex actually said something along the lines of "I'm opposed to repealing Hughes amendment because I don't want my collection's value to drop"

>>30985424
It is not impossible but you wont bend an ak to shit kickstarting it.

>>30991064
>Implying niggers get their guns legally and at its actual value

>>30986922

What vest is this?

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>>30990920
>>30990956
the cosplayer's most likely using an air-shit RK-95. One was released a few years ago.

>>30990920
>Can I get your guys's opinion on the galil?
eh, it's pretty cool. Literally was based on RK-62's blueprints the jews purchased from Valmet during Cold War. Some design choices were clearly taken from Galils to RK-95 later on, but overall they're like cousins.

Some say that the Galils have a tad worse overall quality, like wobblier dust-cover, but I can't comment on that. The few YT vids I've seen of the gun have been mostly positive.

Our western brethren, Estonians, seem to dig their fox-AKs just fine.

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>>30991626
British Osprey flakjacket's main piece, without collar or arm protectors.

I'm a Sivari and what is this?

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>>30991741
Thread for manly men, their manly chest hairs, and manly guns.

>>30990956

>actually M92S as Rk is a military designation, but who cares...

Some of us do - especially considering how anti-gunners like to mix the concept of semi-auto-only and select fire rifles for their own agenda.

So, the (7.62 x 39 only) versions:

- Valmet 62S & Valmet 76S: Semi-auto-only versions of RK 62 sold to civilians.
- Sako 92S: Semi-auto-only version of RK 95 TP sold to civilians.
- 7.62 RK 60: De facto field-test series of RK 62.
- 7.62 RK 62: Basic assault rifle model 1962, standard assault rifle version for Finnish military to this day.
- 7.62 RK 62 TP: Version of RK 62 with folding butt.
- 7.62 RK 90: Prototype/field test series for RK 95 TP.
- 7.62 RK 95 TP: Last assault rifle version.
- 762 RK 62M: Updated RK 62, slightly varying prototype versions being tested at this moment.

>>30980888
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CVe7d7xJdAo. Ok

>>30992662
Is that the video where the AR selector lever froze and the rifle was completely inop, and the only problem the AK had was with shitpul furnituren

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I miss my 804714. :(

>>30973790
+ simple construction
+ accurate
- unergonomic as fuck
i rate it 6/10

t.1/05 MP&sniper

>>30993287
Your comments warrant at least 8/10. If you want to give a lower score, you need to give a better description.
t. border sissi sniper team leader (that actually sounds pretty memeful)

>>30993256
Or when it malfunctioned twice during the first and second shots shit head with the ar firing all rounds

>>30993561
("It" being the ak, the ar's only problem was the magazine release, which was solved 15 seconds later)

>>30993573
Sorry about the aggressive response, thjs board has conditioned a knee jerk response in me.

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>>30993287
+ simple
+ reliable
+ accurate
+ sexy
+/- poor optic mounting options out of the box.
+/- no length adjustments in stock; works or not.

tl;dr: pretty frigging good as a tool of war.

t: 1/08 yaeger

>>30993261
I wonder how my 624762 is doing...

>>30993573
Ak was fixed by simply racking/firing the weapon though, not so for the AR

>>30993663
Two malfunctions for the ak versus zero for the ar. I understand the ak's problem was fixed easier, but the ar was able to cycle a full magazine. If I had to shoot back at someone I would prefer the weapon that could fire without stoppages, even if removing the magazine would require me melting the ice around the mag release, instead of feverishly hitting the charging handle in between rounds while being shot at. In the end, with both rifles you would have trouble returning fire. With the ar, you could return fire and then breathe in your gun until it releases the magazine; with the ak, you could beat the shit out of it until it decides to start firing, and then continue. Basically, pick your poison. It just more or less disproves the whole "ak's function without a hitch in the cold and ar's will explode and eugene stoner will cry."

>>30993725
Both are viable weapons, but I agree that the rk62 is more viable for finland given the logistical and penetration advantages, especially in the relatively close distances of big forests. Since I live in the plains and ar's are cheaper, I prefer them. I just hate meaningless dick waving for either side.

>>30993604

I miss my 975465. I managed to shoot my RK-95 few times with acog and fell in love with it. I think I'll try to get into reservist shooting next summer.

>>30993773
I got my SRA earlier this year, but had already gathered my funs with hunting licenses. It's surprisingly easy to get into the res-stuff without any prior experience, as long as you got some papers already at hand.

A small protip: if you try to apply for TT3 rifles directly for the sport shooting, and the coppers try to spew bullshit about there being a 2 year proving period or something, gently ask them to go fuck themselves, threat to sue them if they keep on lying and breaking the law, and just fill the papers. You ONLY need to practice a shooting sport of your choice for 2 years, and get some proof of it, for handgun licenses.

Apparently the officials are trying to scare of the weaker minded citizens from becoming has-guns with these tricks now.

>>30993928
I got my SRA license six years ago when I was hoping to find a job & get into the sport shooting quickly, no such luck, should probably take the course again once I have money saved for the funs, of course I could start by going to range & participating in competitions with a maakk -bro, use his funs and pay for the ammo I use...

not really the thread for it, but what's the most popular hunting caliber in Finland?

>>30994004
.308 by far

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>>30994004
The top 3 seem to still be:

.308 Win
7.62x54R / 54R
.30-06

...with some .338 and .222 (yes, not a typo) poking up behind them.

Source: Imma hunter, and my local gun store surprised me a while back by saying they didn't have any 7.62 in stock, because "everyone uses .308 nowadays"... all while our military's all into the 54R in their LMGs and DMRs.

>>30994004
I'd say .308 Win, 8.2x53mmR and 8.2x57mm have also been popular, of course .22lr is also popular

>>30994041
The 8mm rounds seem kinda rare in hunting use nowadays.

The Swedish 6.5mm I've spotted in many catalogs though, and some new, huge 9mm rifle rounds. But yeah, .308 and, .308 and .22lr are pretty obvious leaders, with some .222 / .223 being used for forest birds and small game.

>>30986071
>Every SF group that has the freedom to choose their own weapons choose ARs.
'Cept you know
>German KSK is strictly G36 when they have the HK416/G38, however they do use the G28/HK417
>Polish GROM, Swedish SOG, France are a toss up between domestic rifles, G36s, and HK416s
>Plenty of Euro SOF groups use non-ARs
>Belgians use the SCAR

>>30994086
>The 8mm rounds seem kinda rare in hunting use nowadays.
yeah I imagine they would be used by people who bought a cheap Mauser or a Mosin only to find out that the barrel was shot out & had the rifle(s) rebarreled for the "no military calibers for hunting" -era calibers...

>>30994191
inb4: "Europe doesn't count, they are irrelevant!"

>>30993751
>penetration advantages
When will this meme die?

>>30994239
The day that 5.56 can punch through an apartment buildings outer wall and drop an enemy trooper hiding in the room. Or hell, just go through a bush without changing its direction.

>>30994191
>freedom to choose their rifles

Actually surprisingly few groups have a say on what they are allowed to use.

Also note how literally no SF group CHOOSES an AK

>>30994264
5,56 penetrates steel better. 762 penetrates dry wall and concrete better. Neither punches through an average size birch or pine tree.

>brush
What is using the correct twist

>>30982170
>.308
>not a GPMG
Holy shit are Finns retarded?

>>30994290
Because most SF groups typically don't have that option?
And those who do use AKs, its typically a non-western country whose service rifle is AK based.
I can only think of Finland, Poland, the Czechs, and non relevant Latin countries that have such an option. (Yes I know the VZ is not really an AK but its "AK-based").

>>30983530
The Hi-Power could have any color grips on it and still look cool tho

>>30994385
>VZ
>AK-based

You should have said that you don't know shit right in the beginning. Would have saved us both some time.

>>30994425
Would AK-derivative be a better term?
I know it has nothing in common with an AK other than what its chambered in.

>>30994334
are youa sking why FDF didn't adopt that thing as GPMG? Maybe because it's a scaled-up version of a semi-auto version of an assault rifle? Also FDF adopted a belt-fed light machinegun at the same time with the Rk 62 (the LMG was shit but somehow managed to survive for 40+ years in service, now replaced by PKM) and we didn't really need a full-length caliber machinegun badly enough to warrant adopting a weapon using a caliber no other weapon in our inventory used.

>>30994432
>>30994425
The point is there are not many countries where the SOF has an option of both ARs and AK derivative or combloc rifle; and 2 out of 3 of those listed countries choose the latter.

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>>30994439
This. Though the legendarily bad KVKK62 is still being used and taught to conscripts today in KaiPr.

Plus, we do got some .308 MGs, in the form of the MG3s and Miniguns, mounted on the Leopard 2s and our new copters.

>>30994439
>>30994507
My father said that they had no problems with the KvKK 62 in the early 80's, so I wonder, what happened after that.

>>30994317
I'm sorry, I greatly prefer ar's, I was just parroting what I had heard earlier and trying to compromise/reach an agreement. M855a1 has god tier penetration.

>>30994530

They probably just got old, getting the shit beat out of them for decades will make a lot of things unreliable

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>>30994534
stop trying to impersonate me, jenkki hintti.
tyvm.

>>30994530
What I've come to understand, the design never was exactly most reliable in the first place, being based on some older VZ stuff. There also seems to be great quality differences between individual guns.

My friend who served in 2007 got to be an KVKK LMG-shooter in one of those live-fire excercises. He tried to fire a short burst, but the trigger jammed all the way back, leaving the gun spray its belt out in full auto. He could only try and hold it straight and yell for help. The poor gun's barrel almost melted.

>>30989946

There is no RK-92.

There is Sako m92S, that is what Sako used to call semi-auto version of m92. Army call the later 7.62rk95.

>>30994549
Possible. Shame, if that's the case. I have a soft spot for the concept, even if the execution wasn't perfect.

>>30994564
Basically they should have just made a belt-fed version of the RK 62 with more heavy-duty parts.

>>30993928
>Apparently the officials are trying to scare of the weaker minded citizens from becoming has-guns with these tricks now.
They don't need to "scare" anyone - hunters and sports shooters have proven themselves to be skilled in the art of digging their own graves, as evidenced by the gradual tightening of gun laws in recent years.

The ride will most certainly not stop here. Your reservist rifle will soon be banned from civilian use, along with most other firearms. Such is the life in communist Finland.

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>>30994564
I was the one saying the rk62 was better for finland's purposes, and he responded to me you snow nigger

>>30991643
>eh, it's pretty cool. Literally was based on RK-62's blueprints the jews purchased from Valmet during Cold War.

Valmet sold 'em tooling, tons of barrels, tons of barrel blanks and recievers for first batches of Galil.


>Some design choices were clearly taken from Galils to RK-95 later on, but overall they're like cousins.

Simlified sights and muzzlebrake ended up coming other way.

>Some say that the Galils have a tad worse overall quality, like wobblier dust-cover, but I can't comment on that. The few YT vids I've seen of the gun have been mostly positive.

Jews have looser tolerances, they just aren't as autistic as Finns and that probably helps with reliability in conditions full of sand and dust. Even if it comes with cost in accuracy.

>Our western brethren, Estonians, seem to dig their fox-AKs just fine.

Do you even know directions. Estonia is to SOUTH for fucks sake.

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>>30994575
Nobody really cares about any of that in the daily speak.

Everything single pre-95 RK was simply an "RK62" in SA-INT during my time, and I got tons of offers for "civilian RK62 / 92 / 95" when I was posted a want ad for a 7.62x39 TT3 rifle a couple years ago.

>>30994610
>Basically they should have just made a belt-fed version of the RK 62 with more heavy-duty parts.
Just slap a 75 or 100 round drum on it, maybe a cheap bi-pod, and it's already better than nothing, also known as KVKK.

We actually used two of such RKs strapped together into this bizarro-tripod as an AA device in one of our excercises.

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>>30994627
oh, right, sorry about that.
have an AT-dick as an apology.

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>>30994653
No worries. 10/10 would attack t90s with.

>>30994635

Russky here

We did that with RPKs
What was the fucking point?

>>30994635
Heavier barrel and gas system with open bolt operation for added reliability and heat handling and it would actually be pretty useful.

What you are describing is the training version/modification of ITKK 96. It's nothing bizarre.

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>>30994669
We need someone mod these into the ArmA's FDF mod.

>>30994689
>What was the fucking point?
mounting multiple rifles with huge clipazines and pretending they're AA guns? Saving tax-payers money and avoiding bored conscripts from mowing down an entire forest by accident, I guess.

>>30994635
>Nobody really cares about any of that in the daily speak.
Maybe, but this is /k/. Call an AR m16 and you deserve to be yelled at.

>>30994669
>Pic
Hold the fuck up. This sure as hell wasn't in danbooru, gelbooru or even drawfriendsbooru or even on any pixiv, deviant art or whatever the shitstain tumblr is.

>>30994689
>What is an automatic rifle
There are two teams, one support squad and one maneuvering squad.
Automatic rifles like the RPK, IAR, etc give the gunner in the flanking squad a lighter weapon than can be used as a rifle but if needed can setup a smaller base of fire. While the supporting squad has the GPMG and has a larger base of fire from a distance.
Also accurate suppression > suppression by volume (up to a certain point of volume).

>>30994757
Not the same guy, but I've had the picture for years. Maybe you were looking at recent entries or something?

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>>30994719
yeah, /k/ can be a bit double-standarded elitist club at times. Many people have no problem calling the civvie VZ rifles as VZ-58s, and many shorter ARs as "M4s".

>>30994757
eh, not him, but it's one of the oldest fanarts I got saved on my HDD. So it's not exactly "rare" either.

>>30994769
But sustained suppression > all

>>30994709


It's not like we didn't have a tonne of 23mm laying around though

The ammunition was always everywhere for the calibers of AA guns. I mean It WAS Flotilla but fucks sake RPK-74s against any helicopters?

Maybe makes sense for Finns I guess? We have a tendency to go full retard with a lot of our things so "save money" doesn't apply often.

>>30994785
I do believe people call short ARs M4geries, not M4s.

>>30994610
>Shame, if that's the case. I have a soft spot for the concept, even if the execution wasn't perfect.
>even if the execution wasn't perfect.
that's putting it rather mildly:

>smaller than PKM, yet weighs more
>ejects straight down with guts wide open for the sand kicked up by the flying casings to get in-between

then again the sling, the pistol grip serving as a charging handle & the belt pouche's attachment method are pretty nice & when the weapon decides to work it's pretty comfortable to shoot & surprisingly accurate

>>30994784
>>30994785
Guess the tag for the pic was different from the usual or something, or my eyes missed out on it.

>>30994624
>Your reservist rifle will soon be banned from civilian use
not going to happen, EU already stated that the new gun law will secure reservist rifles' legality, even if our own politicians decided that we don't need the AKs and ARs, the backlash from reservists and the fact that EU said to leave reservists alone should force the politicians to BTFO

>>30994610

>Possible. Shame, if that's the case. I have a soft spot for the concept, even if the execution wasn't perfect.

Same here - originally the design had great promise. When issued it was one of the first light machineguns that fit to Squad Automatic Weapon concept - belt-fed light machinegun that uses same ammo as assault rifles issued to rifle squad. Unfortunately belt system is a shitty design and if fired from hard surface cases may bounce back up and end up and jam the weapon. Not to mention that 1.000 rounds per minute rate of fire with 100 round belts and barrel without quick swap option was not exactly the best idea. PKM is just so much better.

>>30994846
Same applies to sport shooters I believe

>>30994385
Latin countries, non relevant.
Implying anyone can operate in the jungle like those latin irrelevant countries. Implying theyre not terribly badass and I dont mean the stupid bope thats in favelas that everyone jacks off too. You see a ton of g3's fal's and galils down south sir, that's awesome in it's own right.

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>>30994653
>>30994709
ahh, leirikyrpäs, one of the finest FDF traditions...

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>>30994846
>>30994870
This.

Plus the politicians have been surprisingly openly against the EU directive. It's not exactly a wonder tho', as some half a million reservists, most who would not get any other sort of training than their personal sport-shooting and hiking innawoods, would be a logistical and financial nightmare to maintain any other way.

Better to have these few-10k civvies buy their own gear and practice on their own, than use even more of the already low defense budget's cash.

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>>30994920
i-is that a Neo Armstrong Cyclone Jet Armstrong Cannon ??

>>30994846
>not going to happen
We have no equivalent to the 2nd amendment. This alone will ensure the final nail in the coffin for any and all freedom to own firearms in this country.

> even if our own politicians decided that we don't need the AKs and ARs, the backlash from reservists and the fact that EU said to leave reservists alone should force the politicians to BTFO
The EU has not paid any special attention to reservists, and politicians don't care about a fringe group (>10 000 reservists who practice semi-regularly with their own firearms), particularly not when it comes to firearms. We've got 100 000 (legal) revolvers and 100 000 (legal) pistols in this country - it didn't stop politicians from fucking it all up in 2011.

PS. The defense of the nation is not dependent on your shooting hobby. You will be issued a state-owned RK during militarily relevant reservist excersises. No babby killing assault weapons of mass destruction are necessary - from a military viewpoint - in the hands of civilians.

>>30994870
>Same applies to sport shooters I believe
Sport shooters got fucked in the ass twice in recent times; first in 1997, then in 2011. If previous legislation is anything to go by, only bolt- and break-action firearms will be legal to own in 2030 in Finland.

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>>30994895
Implying theyre not terribly badass
>what are Brazilian Commandos
>what is the Amazon Comand
>what are Brazilian amphibious Arty and cav
>what are "Swamp Marines"

Your Bait isn't strong here, young padawan

>>30994931
>It's not exactly a wonder tho', as some half a million reservists, most who would not get any other sort of training than their personal sport-shooting and hiking innawoods, would be a logistical and financial nightmare to maintain any other way.
Are you stupid or merely suffering from delusions of grandeur? Your range buddies constitute a miniscule percentage of the active reserve (less than 10k in a force of 230k). The FDF is not counting on civilian sport shooters.

>Better to have these few-10k civvies buy their own gear and practice on their own, than use even more of the already low defense budget's cash.
There's always room in the budget for state-sponsored firearms and ammo. It's a political issue, not an economic one.

>>30994846

Might also be worth noting that Finnish government took quite an effort to make it perfectly clear for EU that reservists are THE group that that the most definitely need their rifles. I consider it highly unlikely that after all that government would turn their game plan 180 degrees.

Just from financial viewpoint alone FDF can consider itself extremely lucky that so many Finnish reservists spent their own money to buy suitable rifles & ammunition and use them to maintain & develop their shooting skills.

>>30994969
>The EU has not paid any special attention to reservists, and politicians don't care about a fringe group
wrong and wrong, EU released a statement that for the sake of antional defense reservists should be allowed to own the same kind of fireamrs they would use in war, while that's not word-to-word what the statement said, it contained the key words "national defense", "reservists" and "same kind of guns they would use in war", that last part can be interpreted to mean that in EU's opinion TT4 (fullautos) should be legal for reservists to own.

>>30995035
also about our politicians, see >>30995025

>>30994989
Nigga I'm saying they're awesome.

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>>30994969
>We have no equivalent to the 2nd amendment. This alone will ensure the final nail in the coffin for any and all freedom to own firearms in this country.
EU does not set laws. They can only issue Directives, that they hope the membering countries will adopt as local laws. How much and strict these laws will be, or if they'll be even adopted, is all up to the country's politicians themselves.

When the EU's anti-gun shit came out for the first time last year, there was a huge opposition wave going against it. Even some of our ministers said that that crap won't work in Finland, because of our reservist and hunting cultures.

In a live-streamed EU discussion panel that handled the first form of the directive, only couple shaky-voiced French and Dutch fags were trying to push it forward. Just about every other country shot it down.

>The EU has not paid any special attention to reservists
You have not read their revised reports.

>You will be issued a state-owned RK during militarily relevant reservist excersises.
Yeah, that you may get to participate once or NEVER EVER during your life. All while the military higher-ups are crying for more support so they COULD hold more refresher exercises on more people.

This is exactly the reason why there's tons of optional, voluntarily reservist activities that gain you refresher-points, including the SRA shooting sport. Like the politicians themselves already stated ages ago, if you kill this national practice, you literally jeopardize the entire defense of the country.

>babby killing assault weapons of mass destruction are necessary - from a military viewpoint - in the hands of civilians.
Next to no civilian even owns assault weapons.
TT3 rifles are not assault rifles, and can be used for sport and hunting purposes as well. The military-style ones are just great for keeping up your shooting skills and practicing army life in general.
+In SHTF situation, there won't be enough RKs for every reservist out there.

>>30994920
Explain

>>30995035
>that last part can be interpreted to mean that in EU's opinion TT4 (fullautos) should be legal for reservists to own.
You've misinterpreted the memo if you draw that conclusion.

>wrong and wrong
The Finnish Government does not need a few thousand wannabe-operators running around with gimped versions of military assault rifles. They can shell out rifles and ammunition to all able-bodied men, both during reservist practices and wartime, without any need to consult the serfs´ opinions.

>>30995095
Some conscripts don't have enough activities in the woods, so they carve dicks.

>>30995011
>ranting
yes yes you are absolutely right & EU and Finnish politicians who spoke in reservist rifles' defense were lying when they said that they don't want to take reservists' AKs and ARs away, of course you know everything better than anyone else...

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>>30995095
>a rare quiet moment in a innawoods training excercise
>nothing to do
>carve the biggest wooden dick you possibly can
it's a tradition that has been passed form generation to generation. See:
>>30994709
>>30994653

and:

https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/diy-wooden-cock/51789

>>30995084
>When the EU's anti-gun shit came out for the first time last year, there was a huge opposition wave going against it. Even some of our ministers said that that crap won't work in Finland, because of our reservist and hunting cultures.
Our very own legislators fucked up our gun laws in 1997 and 2011. No EU needed, just pure old stalinist social democracy.

>In a live-streamed EU discussion panel that handled the first form of the directive, only couple shaky-voiced French and Dutch fags were trying to push it forward. Just about every other country shot it down.
You should worry more about Eduskunta, which has shat on gun owners as long as this nation has existed, and less about faceless bureaucrats in Brussels who don't have any real stake in the game.

>You have not read their revised reports.
You do not understand what is expected of reservists. Hint: they're not expected to purchase their own rifles and ammo.

> All while the military higher-ups are crying for more support so they COULD hold more refresher exercises on more people.
This translates into a favorable stance towards private ownership of militarily effective firearms how...?

>Like the politicians themselves already stated ages ago, if you kill this national practice, you literally jeopardize the entire defense of the country.
The active reserve is 230 000 men and women strong. Fewer than ten percent of those reservists partake in SRA. I repeat: the government does NOT, contrary to your belief, rely on civilian firearms and ammunition.

>Next to no civilian even owns assault weapons.
>what is irony

>+In SHTF situation, there won't be enough RKs for every reservist out there.
Official figures put rifle reserves at 350 000 pieces of hardware. If we suffer losses that high (more than what we could realistically mobilize in wartime), we've already lost the war.

>>30995097
>You've misinterpreted the memo if you draw that conclusion.
I said it can be interpreted that way, not that I believe that that's how it should be interpreted, the very least it secures TT3 for reservists' use

>>30995126
>of course you know everything better than anyone else...
I need only read the law and currently debated legal proposals to understand where this country is headed in the matter of firearms ownership. I suggest you do the same.

>>30992662
"krebbs" """"kustom""" """""ak"""" covered in shit

ok

>>30995097
Number of reservists that were called to official refresher training last year:
15,000

Number of members in main reservists organisations:
100,000

Guess the percentage of officers and NCOs among those 100,000... If we are serfs - what does that make you?

t: Reservist activist for the last 15 years and MPK instuctor.

>>30995184
>the very least it secures TT3 for reservists' use
>"EU does not set laws. They can only issue Directives, that they hope the membering countries will adopt as local laws. How much and strict these laws will be, or if they'll be even adopted, is all up to the country's politicians themselves."
Finnish politicians and citizens don't particularly like guns. At best, said groups accept their limited existence as a hunting implement; at worst, they call for stricter gun control across the board.

>>30995233
>citizens don't particularly like guns
What kind of drugs are you using?

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>>30995183
>Our very own legislators fucked up our gun laws in 1997 and 2011. No EU needed, just pure old stalinist social democracy.
That's the exact reason you do everything in your power to make sure the higher-ups won't eat their words this time around.

>You should worry more about Eduskunta, which has shat on gun owners as long as this nation has existed
don't forget this one gal known as Elizabeth Rehn. She's been very pro-mil and gun since day 1, and bought us some 100k AKs, just for the reservist use alone.

>You do not understand what is expected of reservists
They are expected to maintain their skills and fitness to best of their possibilities. Having a rifle is obviously not going to be everyone's top priority, but the handful of active reservists who dedicate their time and effort to it, will also arm themselves.

>This translates into a favorable stance towards private ownership of militarily effective firearms how...?
I already told you: voluntary courses self-imposed training & sports get highlighted as the more cost-friendly alternative to the state-held exercises.

>The active reserve is 230 000 men and women strong
The active reserves are being SHRUNK to 230K.
Those already existing 500K are not going to just disappear overnight; the FDF is just doing more strict elimination before and during the military service to meet the new quota. In the case of armed conflict, those restrictions can quickly be removed, and Finland can theoretically gather up to 600k men and women as its defense forces, like we had during mid-80s.

>the government does NOT, contrary to your belief, rely on civilian firearms and ammunition.
it doesn't rely, but it appreciates the effort, since it saves their time and money in the end. Now if ever is the great time to make the few remaining blind individuals realize this.

>what is irony
There is no irony. Only a collector can realistically own a legit assault rifle. A TT3 rifle =/= assault weapon.

>350K guns
sauce?

>>30995227
>Number of members in main reservists organisations: 100,000
95% of those men and women do not own SRA-rifles.

>Guess the percentage of officers and NCOs among those 100,000...
Too low, I'd imagine. Had the situation been as rosy as you prefer to perceive it, the officers in question would've made it their priority to strike down the 1997 and 2011 amendments to our firearms legislation.

> If we are serfs - what does that make you?
A serf, of course. Every Finn is a serf. Not only does he need to beg law enforcement for the privilege of owning arms, he pays over 50% (on average) of his total income and consumption in taxes to the very same government that strives after denying citizens liberty. The Finn is as gullible and weak-minded as a donkey.

>>30995183
>blablabla FDF does not need your reservist guns and ammo
no-one said FDF needs reservists' guns and ammo, we said that FDF needs reservists to be able to use the shit FDF issues them if SHTF, FDF doesn't have the resources to give every reservist the shooting practice needed to maintain the shooting skills, this is what reservists' rifles are needed for, many Reservists' union chapters have their own weapons and dedicated (reservist-) instructors & individual hasfunz -reservists also just might let their nofunz -reservist friends to practice with their reservist rifles, so yes, reservist rifles are important, not because hasfunz -reservists would go to war armed with their own customized ARs and AKs, but because those ARs and AKs allow reservists to practice even when FDF has no money for refresher exercises

>>30995183

Thinks that FDF is only interested about those who shoot SRA...

In reality FDF with its limited resources should be damn happy about all the work that the reservist organizations do for free for the common cause. Considering practically every single shooting event that reservists organize nowadays allow each shooter to shoot more live rounds in a single day event than during their whole official military service, do no underestimate the importance. Military service provides basic shooting skills, but nothing close to the level that one can learn in voluntary training courses.

>>30995252
>What kind of drugs are you using?
None at all. You, however, seem to have been living under a rock since 1997.

>>30995276
>That's the exact reason you do everything in your power to make sure the higher-ups won't eat their words this time around.
Nothing was done then, nothing will be done next time. That's the bitter truth, think of it what you will.

>They are expected to maintain their skills and fitness to best of their possibilities.
That doesn't imply a need for an armed populace.

>I already told you: voluntary courses self-imposed training & sports get highlighted as the more cost-friendly alternative to the state-held exercises.
Sure they do, until a mentally ill man/woman off his/her meds goes on a shooting rampage, prompting further restrictions on firearms ownership. Finns don't regard firearms as a right. As long as this fact stands, self-directed reservist training will remain a minor phenomena.

>Those already existing 500K are not going to just disappear overnight
The reserve was shrunk from 250k to 230k.

>it doesn't rely, but it appreciates the effort, since it saves their time and money in the end.
Government has more time and money than you can imagine.

>Now if ever is the great time to make the few remaining blind individuals realize this.
Reservist activism is a very minor part of finnish society, as is homeland defense activism in general. We have other, more pressing issues to deal with. These "few" individuals you speak of constitute a vast majority of the population. Good luck in your quest - you'll need it.

>>30995299

>95% of those men and women do not own SRA-rifles.

Claims that SRA-rifles are only rifles that can used for maintaining & developing of shooting skills...

Also: What are rifles owned by reservist clubs, MPK and districts plus what are they used for.

>>30995385
Almost everyone I know has guns and the rest don't mind them either.

>>30995352
>In reality FDF with its limited resources should be damn happy
>should
Wishful thinking on your part. Fact of the matter is this: the FDF doesn't care

>Considering practically every single shooting event that reservists organize nowadays allow each shooter to shoot more live rounds in a single day event than during their whole official military service, do no underestimate the importance.
Statements such as these beg the question of whether you've actually completed military service yourself; the military is quick to teach you how unimportant a single soldier is in the larger picture. A war is not won with infantry soldiers, contrary to your apparent belief to the contrary.

>Military service provides basic shooting skills, but nothing close to the level that one can learn in voluntary training courses.
War is not a target shooting competition.

Any 5.56 would be better than what the FDF has now. All of this shit about penetration, reliability in the winter etc. is just propaganda. The truth is we just can't afford better guns but nobody wants to say it out loud so they come up with excuses why the guns we have now are as good or better than more modern weapons.

T. Finn

>>30995409
>Almost everyone I know has guns
Oh, I know lots of middle-aged "hunters" too, but they own bolt-action long arms and an O/U for duck hunting and are not the least bit interested in reservist training.

>and the rest don't mind them either.
Changes to the "Aselaki" in 1997 and 2011 don't reflect this belief of yours.

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>>30995352
This.
Considering that the military service time was cut shorter recently, and that it has already had some severe effects on the overall quality and pacing of the training (some units have literally gotten a quick theory lesson on the gun, then taken to range once to attempt to zero their guns, then next day they'd take the official "ATT" shooting test), the self-imposed training should be more required and recommended than ever before.

>>30995385
>None at all. You, however, seem to have been living under a rock since 1997.
Not him, but while I know the guns kinda stay "hidden" in Finnish culture nowadays, once you start poking some conversation, you soon realize that your neighbor's are gun-owners.
>Nothing was done then, nothing will be done next time. That's the bitter truth
No, that's just pessimistic fatalism, and also failing to realize the change of times.
Nowadays, a single online petition can gather millions of views and signs in a matter of hours, thanks to the spread of internet and social media. Back in 97, you'd pretty much had to go out and start a riot to get heard.

>That doesn't imply a need for an armed populace.
The population of the country IS the same as the country's armed forces in Finland.
And again, you're clinging to your "need". I'd however argue that FDF and government NEED us armed reservists..

>The reserve was shrunk from 250k to 230k.
It was first shrunk to that 250k during the turn of this decade. It was still 500K during my service time in mid 00s.
Those who served 30, 20 and 10 years ago are still part of the reserves, and will not just get "ditched".

>Government has more time and money than you can imagine.
Who's the delusional moron now? Have you not seen the wrestling that's been going on in the Eduskunta lately? Missed the global recession?

>Reservist activism is a very minor part of finnish society
Defense forces is a deeply eched part of our whole existence and culture.
Reserves are a key part of that system.

>>30995385
>That doesn't imply a need for an armed populace.
it's kind of hard to practice shooting without private firearms when FDF has no monies for exercises and after all the shit you mentioned FDF isn't about to take the chance of angering the retards of green-left by lending out FDF's firearms for reservists' union/MPK, even when MPK does get to use FDF's guns for voluntary exercises the exercises are officially FDF's own exercises that they simply out-sourced to MPK

just face it, reservist-owned semiautos are necessary & our current politicians aren't about to take them away, maybe the next Eduskunta will try something, maybe not, for teh time being you are just being paranoid about the politicians trying to take our funz, as well as being retarded about privately owned funz being unnecessary (what's with taht double-standard BTW, you complain about politicians taking guns away & simultaneously say reservists don't need guns)

>>30995385
>Nothing was done then, nothing will be done next time. That's the bitter truth, think of it what you will.
This. So much this.

Our reservist rifles and pistols will be taken by 2030-2035.
The gun laws have been getting tighter and tighter. Shooting ranges are fewer and fewer. Getting special weapons like AOWs (muu ase) is harder than ever..

Gun laws NEVER get better. They always get tighter.

It amazes me that people actually think their rifles are safe. For fucks sake people, wake the fuck up.

>>30995435
if you'd read this thread you'd be aware that the fact that replacing Rks with 5.56s would be insanely expensive & not worth the slight advantages gained by switching calibers has been mentioned at least hundred times in this thread alone

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>>30995493
>The gun laws have been getting tighter and tighter.
then do something about it.
>Shooting ranges are fewer and fewer.
then set up your own. It was made very easy just a year or two ago.
>Getting special weapons like AOWs (muu ase) is harder than ever..
I'd pull the "why do ya need one" card on this, especially since you can still get a fine TT3 AK or AR without AOW.
Plus, that category is kinda wildcard anyway, and the amount of licenses granted varies quite a bit. Kuopio seems to be one of the more allowing places in Finland at the moment, and coincidentally, getting one for SRA is amongst the easiest to get accepted reasons out there.

While at it, lets not forget that even cops can occasionally "wake the fuck up" and start cutting of the excessive fat:
just recently they decided to completely drop that silly "mental health" test while applying for your first fun.

>>30995477
>Not him, but while I know the guns kinda stay "hidden" in Finnish culture nowadays, once you start poking some conversation, you soon realize that your neighbor's are gun-owners.
They are no more gun "owners" than any other europoor. Legal guns in this country are "owned" at the mercy of governent. A simple speeding ticket can result in the confiscation of your entire arsenal. Laughable, to say the least, and certainly not a sign of a healthy gun culture.

>No, that's just pessimistic fatalism, and also failing to realize the change of times.
Times have indeed changed, but not in the direction you dream of.

>Nowadays, a single online petition can gather millions of views and signs in a matter of hours, thanks to the spread of internet and social media. Back in 97, you'd pretty much had to go out and start a riot to get heard.
There will be no petitions for liberty in Finland. It's never been part of our culture to long for self-determination and independence from strong central government.

>The population of the country IS the same as the country's armed forces in Finland.
There's only enough arms for two million or so Finns, assuming we arm every man and woman aged 16-50+ with firearms mostly useless for war (shotguns and bolt-action deer rifles).

>Those who served 30, 20 and 10 years ago are still part of the reserves, and will not just get "ditched".
Thankfully, our military leaders are not idiots who belief in "final victory", which is why your childish fantasies of literal total defense can be dismissed as rubbish.

>ave you not seen the wrestling that's been going on in the Eduskunta lately? Missed the global recession?
Rifles and ammunition amount to a few hundred million in the budget. Such money is chump change, even for the Finnish Government, should the need for it arise.

>>30995591
>Rifles and ammunition amount to a few hundred million in the budget. Such money is chump change
if there's so much money for FDF then how come FDF is currently using "for war" -ammo stockpiles for peacetime training?

>>30995492
>it's kind of hard to practice shooting without private firearms
In wartime, marksmanship skill in peaceful, civilian conditions will be the least of our needs and worries.

>for teh time being you are just being paranoid about the politicians trying to take our funz,
In case you didn't notice, handguns are already practically banned for the average citizen, who is not interested in licking the boot for two years before being allowed purchase of one's own hndgun.

>(what's with taht double-standard BTW, you complain about politicians taking guns away & simultaneously say reservists don't need guns)
I'd rather be American than Finnish. I would never advocate for any gun control beyond what is found in New Hampshire, Alaska or Vermont.

That said, I felt the need to correct your misconception regarding what government "needs". Our rulers do not, by any means, "need" a few thousand men and women regularly playing war in the woods - that's what the Defense Forces are for.

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>>30994627
>Mystery meat calling a pure blood Ice giant a nigger

Better shut your mongrel mouth boy-o!

>>30995642
>if there's so much money for FDF then how come FDF is currently using "for war" -ammo stockpiles for peacetime training?
Ammo is ammo. There is no practical distinction between "war time ammo" and "peacetime ammo".

PS. If the military is short on munitions, they will buy more - it's as simple as that.

>>30995433

>Wishful thinking on your part. Fact of the matter is this: the FDF doesn't care

You seem to be mixing "some officers do not care" with "FDF does not care".

>Statements such as these beg the question of whether you've actually completed military service yourself

FDF seems to think so - otherwise they would not have given me the stripes.

>teach you how unimportant a single soldier is in the larger picture

In a war and in a sense. But wars are fought by men - and the level of their skill set does matter. Let's face it - reservist organizations are full of NCO and officers - hence the people who lead others in war and if given opportunity are able to teach what they know to the soldiers they lead. I have seen the skill set of those that have have been in reserves for 20 years without doing shit and of those who practice at least few thousand rounds per year and the difference could hardly be more obvious.

>War is not a target shooting competition.

Without basic marksmanship learned in target shooting there is not really much to build on when it comes to further training. Unless one knows how to hit the target show & accurate, it is pretty damn impossible to learn how to it hit fast & accurate. Personally I do both.

BTW: SRA does not teach you real combat shooting either and if you do it the wrong way it will teach you bad habbits (like: not properly using cover, not changing mags while in cover, not maintaining situation awareness, not using team work, revealing your fire position by pushing your rifle barrel through peep holes etc). It is just a training tool - pure and simple.

>>30995591
>They are no more gun "owners" than any other europoor
So every single one of those guns/population charts is lying? Also GJ bringing that babby's first conspiracy theory shit to the discussion.

>Times have indeed changed, but not in the direction you dream of.
says an old fart living in the past, thinking the 80s were sooo much better, just because they took your .38 snubnose away.

>There will be no petitions for liberty in Finland.
there's already been. Two of those.
Not only that, discussion boards, chats, good ol' email / IM / fucking phones still do wonders. Most Finns are just still these "groan-a-lot, do-nothing-about-it" types. I actually wrote to the EU people and my local politicians late last year when the gun-ban directive surfaced, and actually got answers. Got just about all my friends and relatives, even ones that I'd not kept much touch with in years, to spread the word and sign the petitions.

>There's only enough arms for two million or so Finns, assuming we arm every man and woman aged 16-50+ with firearms mostly useless for war
For starters, that's never going to happen, because not everyone's fit for fighting anywy.
second, this is where the few self-owned firearms actually start to make a small but welcome difference.

>Thankfully, our military leaders are not idiots who belief in "final victory...
OK, now he's just avoiding the subject and spewing fatalist woes with no substance.

>Rifles and ammunition amount to a few hundred million in the budget
Yet FDF is literally using their war-time storages to train conscripts as we speak, as they've not received new batches of fresh ammo in ages. Go figure.

Seriously mate, you're a prime example of pathetic, depressed fatalist, with way too big assumptions of this country's state of wealth at the moment.

>>30995493
They got better in czech republic, and they've gotten better in some clapistanian states.

The policians care about nothing except votes. They're a bunch of power-hungry, evil hypocrites that would sell their own mothers if they got more votes for it. This being the case, you only need to create more gun owners - the more there are,the more voting power gun owners have. Once we stop being a minority the politicians are a lot more likely to start enacting laws that benefits us. So stop bitching and start dragging more people into the sport.

>>30995644
>I'd rather be American than Finnish
so what's stopping you from moving there? Tell me when you leave, I'll help you pack & give you a ride to the airport...

> Our rulers do not, by any means, "need" a few thousand men and women regularly playing war in the woods

without mentioning any names, a few active service officers I know agree that reservists' independent shooting practice as well as all the other voluntary defense work *IS* needed

>>30995670
>You seem to be mixing "some officers do not care" with "FDF does not care".
If the FDF really cared, they would've carpet bombed the 1997 and 2011 gun law changes.

>FDF seems to think so - otherwise they would not have given me the stripes.
I met plenty of stupid NCO:s and officers during my time in service.

>But wars are fought by men - and the level of their skill set does matter.
Wars are decided by the intelligence, courage and tactical genius of officers in charge of armoured divisions, maintenance, AA, artillery and mortars.

>I have seen the skill set of those that have have been in reserves for 20 years without doing shit and of those who practice at least few thousand rounds per year and the difference could hardly be more obvious.
Rifle skirmish casualties in WW2 were miniscule when compared to casualties sustained by exposure to artillery. The average infantryman is, without a doubt, far less important today. With this in mind, why do you depict reservist marksmanship skill as an important part of homeland defense?

>>30995554
>then do something about it.
I do. I regularly get new people and show them the ropes with shooting sports and hunting.

>then set up your own. It was made very easy just a year or two ago.
I have my own already.

>why do ya need one
Because I want one for my hobby. The AOW law is probably the faggiest bunch of shit ever written.

Also most recent PoHa interpretation makes it nigh impossible to grant AOWs to non-handicapped people or non-SM-tier competitors.

What I was saying is that thinking our guns are safe is stupid. We are one Pekka-Eric away from Britain tier gun laws.

>>30995737
>With this in mind, why do you depict reservist marksmanship skill as an important part of homeland defense?
Because once the war is lost and the critical assets are destroyed, it will be the only thing preventing occupation.

T. Differentfag

>>30995493

It seems you have not been around long enough to see how things develop on the long run as far as development of Finnish firearms legislation and how it has been applied has developed. Until 1980's WW2 bolt-action military rifles were military weapons that required special permit from provisional level.

Then things got better and now the last legislation was again tighter with also applying of legislation getting tighter.

Latest small changes (no psych test anymore & no categorized restrictions for shooting with collector's firearms) have again been heading towards the more positive direction.

>>30995673
>Also GJ bringing that babby's first conspiracy theory shit to the discussion.
Guns are a privilege in Finland. This is not a conspiracy theory.

>says an old fart living in the past, thinking the 80s were sooo much better, just because they took your .38 snubnose away.
You're proving my point. Thanks.

>For starters, that's never going to happen, because not everyone's fit for fighting anywy.
You claimed that 5.5 million finns constitute the "armed forces" of our nation. What made you change your mind?

>OK, now he's just avoiding the subject and spewing fatalist woes with no substance.
Are you an idiot? You said, and I quote, "Those who served 30, 20 and 10 years ago are still part of the reserves, and will not just get "ditched".". Which way do you want it: is the reserve 230k strong, or three, four times bigger, going by your numbers?

>>30995667
>Ammo is ammo. There is no practical distinction between "war time ammo" and "peacetime ammo".

there have always been quotas how much ammo FDF can use in a year to train conscripts, separate quota for how much ammo can be used for reservists' training, and yet another separate quota for career personnel's training, until recently FDF has been buying at least the same amount of ammo to replace what has been used, now FDF is using more ammo than it's buying

>PS. If the military is short on munitions, they will buy more - it's as simple as that.

who's delusional now? If FDF could afford to buy equal amount of ammo as it's using every year it would, yet now the use exceeds what is being bought, why? There's no money for the ammo, that's why.

>>30995694
>Once we stop being a minority the politicians are a lot more likely to start enacting laws that benefits us.
>So stop bitching and start dragging more people into the sport.
Shooting sports were severely hurt by the 2011 legislation. It's hard to raise gun ownership from the brink of destruction in a country, where government regulation and nanny-state attitudes are alive and well.

>>30995778
>Because once the war is lost and the critical assets are destroyed, it will be the only thing preventing occupation.
Guerrilla forces do not "prevent" occupation, but rather act as a beacon of hope in an occupied zone. By the time marksmanship comes into play, the invaders have already instituted new government and begun cracking down on dissidents. Brush up on your history, will you?

>>30995765
Kapu spotted :D

>>30995809
Hurt, but not severely. I personally started after the changes, and got my 3 TT3's just fine.

The same can apply to others as well, so stop bitching and start working.

>>30995785
>If FDF could afford to buy equal amount of ammo as it's using every year it would, yet now the use exceeds what is being bought, why?
Did it ever occur to you that we are not at the brink of war?
>There's no money for the ammo, that's why.
Without ammo, there is no national defense. Without national defense, there is no government. Without government, there is no accepted, centralized tool of power and influence. Without centralized tools of power and influence, there is no society as we know it. Ergo, you don't understand politics.

>>30995825
And cracking up on dissidents will be a lot more difficult if there's a high chance your soldiers get shot.

>>30995831
I'm not Kapu. He's a mouth breathing idiot. I agree on some things with him, although he usually has a shitty way of backing his arguments and a peculiar way to whore for attention with his victim complex.

But keep jormashit out of this, ok?

>>30995846
>The same can apply to others as well
>can
See, there's your problem. You assume there to exist a widespread will to gun ownership among the finnish populace. Unfortunately, anything beyond a shotgun and bolt-action rifle requires jumping far too many hoops to keep the layman interested in sports shooting.

>>30995866
>And cracking up on dissidents will be a lot more difficult if there's a high chance your soldiers get shot.
I never denied that, but merely stated it not to be a worry of our current government administration. If guerrilla war were on the table of our leaders, we'd enjoy the blessings of a 2nd amendment in this country.

>>30995737
>If the FDF really cared, they would've carpet bombed the 1997 and 2011 gun law changes.

High ranking officers in FDF have always been sensitive to what the government wants. When it comes to leading politicians FDF aims to please - IMO often even too much.

>in charge of armoured divisions

Okay, now I have to start wondering if you have actually done Finnish military service. We have not had divisions since year 1948 and have only single Armor Brigade, which in mobilization would provide trained troops & equipment for mechanized combat groups.

Marksmanship is major skill for infantry soldier - ability equally important as having the physical shape needed for combat. Besides being a skill also raises confidence.

>>30995854
>Did it ever occur to you that we are not at the brink of war?
said everyone and their mother in 1938, and even a year later some people, including prime minister, were saying the same shit, few months later everyone was crying "why didn't we buy that ammo when we had the chance?"

yeah, I pulled the Winter war -card, deal with it, by the time we start needing the ammo we might no longer have the time nor the materials to make the ammo we need.

>>30995846
cont.
>The same can apply to others as well, so stop bitching and start working.
Not everyone is interested in asking for permission to own guns. Why should I, or anyone else for that matter, bow down to government before excersising the most essential right of them all: the right to keep and bear arms?

Face it, finnish gun laws are shit, have always been shit and will most likely always be shit. The thought process of a free man is not a seed easily sowed in desolate scenery.

File: 27261c.jpg (108KB, 909x642px) Image search: [Google]

108KB, 909x642px

>>30995783
>Guns are a privilege in Finland. This is not a conspiracy theory.
That's not what you even said originally, but whatev.
Yes, guns ain't our "right", but they are not illegal either. And people still luckily seem to realize their importance in our system.

>You're proving my point. Thanks.
What point would that be? That people living in their own bubble, hiding their grandfather's war-time gear in their basements, slowly driving the country into recession, were better days?

>You claimed that 5.5 million finns constitute the "armed forces" of our nation. What made you change your mind?
You know you're talking with a braindead Fox Muller of the Peräkylä, when he gets stuck to the smallest details and can't think in the bigger perspective.

OK then, rautalanka-version:
The huge majority of FDF's armed forces is formed out of reservists.
Reservists are by a definition, totally normal people during peace time.
Even nowadays, majority of males the age of 18+ are expected to do the mil-service, and thus join reserves.

Conclusion = we the people are responsible of defending our nation when the time comes. We do not have a separated "greencollar class" that will do it for us; instead, it's gonna be me, you, your less faggy cousin and possibly your neighbor's kids dad doing the fighting.

And if you really wanna start stretching this subject matter, I could always remind that defending the country does not only consist of taking up a rifle and going innawoods. Especially this day and age, there's tons of civilian jobs that need to be maintained even during a conflict.

>Which way do you want it: is the reserve 230k strong, or three, four times bigger, going by your numbers?
There are around 500k reservists that can be called to arms if the rise needs.
This number is just gradually lowered to the 230k, in a form of taking less people in to the service, by holding stricter requirements.

That 230K mark is not going to be achieved in a looong while yet.

>>30995854
>Without ammo, there is no national defense. Without national defense, there is no government. Without government, there is no accepted, centralized tool of power and influence. Without centralized tools of power and influence, there is no society as we know it. Ergo, you don't understand politics.
ok, mitä ikinä se onkaan mitä sä poltat, kannattaiskohan ehkä lopetella, koska sun jutuissas ei ole enää päätä eikä häntää, onks sulla varmasti kaikki muumit laaksossa?

>>30995909
>Okay, now I have to start wondering if you have actually done Finnish military service. We have not had divisions since year 1948 and have only single Armor Brigade, which in mobilization would provide trained troops & equipment for mechanized combat groups.
You missed the point. I congratulate you on your ability to form a strawman.

>Marksmanship is major skill for infantry soldier - ability equally important as having the physical shape needed for combat.
I repeat: infantry soldiers DO NOT DECIDE WARS.

>Besides being a skill also raises confidence.
And it is all for nought once the shrapnel is flying left and right.