Get rekt AKfags.

>>30960153
A fucking leaf.

>>30960153

Anyone who actually thinks this is a legitimate question as to why we would change our rifle to a gun we have no manufacturing experience, no ammo in inventory and no training on is a retard.

>Flint, Michigan
Opinion discarded, even if it wasn't shit

>>30960153
>US ballistic research yada yada better than Russian
I'm not even an AKfag but that's some bullshit if I've ever heard it.
Russians take it pretty seriously

>>30960153
Ballistics, maybe.

But the weapon platform itself isn't copying the M4. I'd MUCH rather have a new AK-107 than any kind of Ar style weapon

>>30960173
Lead poisoning. Poor bastard actually believes everything he wrote.

What's with the ultra low quality ak bait lately?

Nobody is even applying themselves anymore.

>>30960153
>reddit
opinion discarded

Does anyone know what the average cost for a new M4 is for the Gov't? It can't be that much more than production cost for an AK-74. Also who would they even contract?

>>30960153
There's nothing wrong with enjoying the AK platform. I may be weird, but i actually prefer the ergonomics of the AK better. Maybe its my short arms and wide shoulders, I don't know.

>>30960292
The optics issue is only a problem for Americans who insist on mounting red dots on the dust cover. Russians have been issuing decent dovetail optics for decades.

AR platform: Autists weapon of choice

>>30960267
it was roughly 450 in 2010 remember reading it in one of those test reports

>>30960329
>Implying Russians have decent optics

LEAD POISONING
E
A
D

>>30960267
$673.10, Source: FedBizOps Contract number W56HZV12D00560001.

Not quite comparable but some years ago Izhmash sold a number of AK-103s to Venezuela for $275 per unit.

AKs are cheaper for a number of reasons and not the least of which is labor.

But the cost of small arms is basically irrelevant in aspects of modern militiries. The cost of arming an army all with the same rifle is about the cost of a pair of modern fighter jets.

>>30960360
>PSO-1

>>30960360
EBIN XXXXDDDD UPBOATED
PSOs are great faget.

File: the leaf.jpg (78KB, 517x650px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 517x650px

>>30960153

>>30960292
>experienced shooter and shade tree gunsmith
>AK47

>>30960371

Just to add: the 5.45 is ballistically superior to 5.56x45mm in several regards so idk what the fuck this niggers on about. The two are generally equal to one another.

Really the AK-74(M(2)) and AR are both of comparable in their modern configurations.

If you want to compare equals, compare the AKM or AK type III/Norinco Type 56 to the FN FAL, M14 /M1 or G3, since the M16 existed parallel to the original 7.62x39mm series only for ~10 years in frontline units while the AK(M) proved to be the standard rifle of the USSR from 1951-1974/5.

>>30960292
this sounds half assed, and frankly uneducated, the AK is not as modular but can be easily adopted to rail system, it's not as reliable granted but easier to build and assemble hence it prevalence plus the another should remember any half decently trained person can make the AK (M 74 or any other variant) work maybe not to the level of western marksmanship but its still a rifle. its biggest fault is its premier user failed to implement optics on large scale
they have successfully made optics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98BRnb-I3zY
it shows a lot more thought has been put into optics then might be seen in west the idea of bute force engineering

if given a choice I take an AR type rifle any day I know it better then AK pattern rifles
the AK is solid rifle but not amazing

>>30960360
PK01

>>30960153
>Flint, Michigan

I thought Muslims loved AKs?

>>30960153

>ARs are expensive and complicated to manufacture

I guess that's why they're so cheap and abundant in the US while literally nobody can build a decent 100% domestic AK.

>>30960887
well to be fair nobody in europe can build a decent ar have you seen their abortions? like the cutting edge german ar clones would be worse than ptac

>>30960909
I hope you are not implying HK is shit?

>>30960292
>Russian special forces have now begun adopting the AR15 over their indigenious AK.
I want whatever this guy's smoking.

>>30960941
http://www.oberlandarms.com/produkte-infos-rifles-oa15-de-artkat=11-Selbstladeb%FCchsen+Rifles+OA+15.html#produkte
its not even 1/7 twist or chromelined

>>30960329
I never understood why people think its an issue. AK side rails are great.

>>30960292
This is the dumbest shit.
>5.56 better at range
7.62x39 and 5.56 both suck shit at long range.
5.56 is easier to hit with but it's not gonna do much at a distance.
>Optics and Ergo's are a problem
Optics are fine, get a side rail. Ergos are fine. only shitty things ergonomically are the safety and the charging handle, and neither of those are an issue unless you're a raging faggot.
>AR gets lighter and more accurate when you slap rails on it, but the AK gets heavier
Nigga what the fuck.
>Ammo technology closes the gap
Yeah and if you apply that magical technology to 7.62x39 the gap is back
>Reliability is not an issue
>I mean it's not super reliable
>but it's good enough
AK is better. Stay mad ARfags.

>>30961402
>AK is better. Stay mad ARfags.

https://youtu.be/DX73uXs3xGU

https://youtu.be/YAneTFiz5WU

>Flint, Michigan

Must be all that lead in the water.

>>30960398
>stoppages are not a luxury
Good thing we have Lt. Cpl. Obvious over here to clear that one up

File: 1453861073743.jpg (40KB, 329x344px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 329x344px

>>30960423
>5.45 is ballistically superior

>>30961402
>>I mean it's not super reliable
>>but it's good enough

>AK is better. Stay mad ARfags.
Rock i more reliable than any firearm to date.


Rock is better. Stay mad AKfags.

>>30960974
I think he's referring to Crimea, there are photos of "unidentified" soldiers using AR's. Take it as you will, but everyone knows they're Russian. It's for deniability for the Kremlin as far as I've been able to find out, and I'm sure that's all it's for.

>>30960423
Different anon here, not that I don't believe you ( I own a 5.45 and nothing else) but it doesn't have as much muzzle energy as 5.56 consistently, so what exactly makes it better ballistically? I know bullet construction plays a part, I just didn't think it played that much of a part.

>>30962546
I know military ball doesn't rely on velocity to tumble in 5.45.

>>30960329
They add more weight to an already heavier rifle

>>30962546

5.45x39mm is a ballisticians delight.

You'll note I said

>5.45 is ballistically superior to 5.56x45mm in several regards

Which I realize is probably a poor choice of words. I should have said something that makes it more clear I meant 5.56 and 5.45 have their own advantages over one another. My fault, English isn't my first language.

5.45x39mm has a superior G7 Ballistic Coefficient and, ergo, retains its energy better and has a more stable flight profile at longer distances. The actual real world differences between 5.45x39mm 7N6 and M855(A1) are negligable at best speaking purely from an external Ballistics standpoint. At their maximum general effective ranges when fired from their typical service rifles (Both being 500m), they are both lethal, both within acceptable parameters of drop and windage, and are capable of incapacitating their target.

5.45x39mm 7N6 consistently generates a wound cavity of about the same general size regardless of distance, barrel twist rate or length, or other factors: 36-42 cubic centimeters. 5.56x45mm M855(A1) may generate a wloud cavity up to 78 cubic centimeters, but relies on fragmenting. When it doesn't fragment, it tends to be about 17-26 cubic centimeters.

5.45x39mm is also slightly lighter than 5.56x45mm in mass, but only as such it matters when rounds get to the hundreds (as they do in real life combat), which offsets the difference in mass between the Stoner rifle and the Kalashnikov slightly so: generally a rifleman with 240 rounds of 5.45 and an AK-74M will have the same rifle and ammunition mass as a rifleman with a M16A4 or M4A1 with 240 rounds of 5.56x45mm M855(A1) ball.

The 5.45x39mm also generates about 60% of the free recoil energy of 5.56 does, but that's generally an interference because generally one would rate a salvo of 3-6 rounds of 5.45 and 5.56 as being about the same, and it doesn't particularly matter in such low levels of recoil in semi-automatic fire. (Con.)

>>30960347

DAE AmeriKKKa?

>>30963508
You mean except that it's easily deflected by brush and it has shit barrier penetration?

>>30963508

5.56x45mm is more optimized and, thanks in great part to the US civilian market, has a wide range of projectiles developed specifically for it ranging from low mass high speed projectiles to heavy weight, low drag marksman's rounds. 5.56 has a wider offering of calibers to do a wider range of jobs, and as such the US has a ton of different loadings, but M855(A1) is the mainstay generally. There's more variation with 5.56 than there is 5.45, and as such you can create some excellent rounds in a huge range of bullet masses and charges.

Both rounds are developments of individuals nations efforts to create a modern Small Caliber, High Velocity cartridge in line with the understanding that individual marksmanship is not the most important factor in Infantry engagments: in context to Small arms, Infantry engagments are decided by volume of fire. This volume needs to be constant, sustained, and have as little deviation as possible from initial point of aim for the soldier to properly supress and neutralize the target. The 5.45x39mm and 5.56x45mm are the most successful of all the SCHV projects not because they are the best in range, downrange performance, weight, recoil or mass per trigger pull/burst, but because they are the most consistent in ALL of these factors when considered by each nation and what was important in their Infantry doctrine.

Understand that the two rounds fit well in their respective doctrines, and you understand why they both coexist.


I hate the M16 vs 7.62x39mm Kalashnikov comparison, because the two were from totally different eras. While it's true that they would have faced each other, people focus on the engineering standpoint of the two of them too often and don't realize that the better comparison of Infantry squads in the era would be NATOs various battle rifle flavors against the 7.62 pattern Kalashnikovs.

>>30963659
(Con)

If one must assume that the 7.62x39mm pattern Kalashnikovs are in action, one must assume the USSRs Non-Soviet Warsaw Pact allies are in conflict as well, and ergo one should assume that the USs NATO allies with their G3s and FALs are in conflict to the same.

Compare the four kinds if you must, but don't assume because both are "Assault Rifles" that both are equal in technological eras. Infantry combats prime development period came in the immediate post war and the differences in the two fronts was immediately apparent by 1956, but it only changed more with proxy wars and the first introductions of these post war tactics.


In summary the two are two sides of the same coin and both do the same thing, from two rifles that fill the same role, with different tactical thinking, to accomplish the same goal, to reach the same end.

TL;DR:

>5.45x39mm has less recoil than 5.56x45mm
>5.45x39mm 7N6 has a better G7 ballistic coefficient and Form Factor than 5.56x45mm M855A1
>5.45x39mm is slightly lighter than 5.56x45mm
>5.45x39mm 7N6 is more consistent with its terminal effectivness than 5.56x45mm M855A1
>5.56x45mm is more flexible
>5.56x45mm has loads that are more effective than 5.45x39mm and in the right enviroment generates a larger wound cavity by a significant margin than 5.45x39mm7N6s
>5.56x45mm has slightly better external Ballistics than 5.45x39mm

>Both rounds represnet the pinical of modern Small arms ammunitions
>Both rounds fill the role of the modern SCHV rifle very well
>Both fill the role well and equally and not enjoying both is retarded.

>Canada

>will never own a kalashnikov

>muh 5 round mags

>muh no right to self defense

wew.

File: 130221984383.png (333KB, 600x578px) Image search: [Google]

333KB, 600x578px

>>30960292
>simple R&D

>>30963659

Unless it's a 20 inch barrel, all the "special rounds" you make think make a difference, do not.

>>30963777
>If one must assume that the 7.62x39mm pattern Kalashnikovs are in action,


AKM's are still in service, were seen quite a few in the ukraine in hands of russian troops.

>>30963598

Cool memes friend.

I don't know where the deflection one cone from but I can probably base it on one I have heard.

Flechettes were notorious for this myth and the truth is it did indeed happen against trees. They didn't "deflect" mind you, but rather deviated quite dramatically during their terminal phase as a result of the design of Flechettes.

Which is fine because Flechettes have historically been fucking bullshit.


Barrier penetration isnt a myth. All modern SCHVs struggle with barrier penetration compared to their full-bore bretherine, and naturally if 5.45x39mm is a member of this circle so is 5.56x45mm and 5.8x42mm DBP.

The USSR first encounter the issues in Afghanistan but really didn't think much of it because generally Rangers were regarded as being the issues, but they still introduced the more reliable penetrating 7N6M in 1987/88

When it came up again it was in Chechnya, a Providence who's building are made mostly of masonry and thick or reenforced wood. Building construction in places like Argun or Grozny isn't quite comparable to building g constriction in the typical neighborhood in the US, due in large part to the fact many of the areas that fighting took place in were littered with Khrushchyovkas, who's walls were generally 76.2mm thick concrete on the exterior and interior lon load bearing walls were generally 3cm thick; both of which are difficult to penetrate, even with 7.62 caliber projectiles.

The Russian solution was traditionally Russian: start issuing 7.62x39mm Kalashnikovs again, while developing/increasing production of 5.45x39mm 7N10 and 7N22. These were mostly for defeating hardened targets and body armor but workjust the same on masonry.

It's not like 5.56x45mm didn't run into this issue either: its part of the reason Mk. 262 Mod 0/1, Mk. 318 Mod. 0/1 and M855A1 Enhanced Performance Round exist.

>>30963935
it's a lightweight long skinny bullet, it's easily deflected by light brush

meaning yes, it deviates from it's flight path easily.

It is funny that most AK-heads in the US irrationally defend the AK-47 as the best gun platform for reasons that Russia has outright moved away from. The new Russian rifles are more complex and fire a smaller diameter bullet, and have for decades. Now, are Russian small arms better or worse than US small arms? That is a silly question. Both countries are continuously improving and experimenting.

File: 1460661811685.jpg (20KB, 477x347px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 477x347px

>>30963860
>Those evil Russians have troops deployed in the Donbass!

File: vatnik.jpg (92KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 600x600px

>>30964523

Found you.

>>30964578
Is this from the new Jason Bourne movie?

>>30960153
go back to that cancerous place

>>30960153
All he did was state that Russia is Russia and America is America.