Is the IDF the most overrated military in the world?

>>30960115

If you meant to type underappreciated then sure probably

>>30960115
that entire country is essentially just a way to stir up war in the middle east for whoever gives them shekels and political power.

As such, their military operates in a similar self-absorbed manner.

>>30960115
No, that would be Russia's military.

>but in COD they jumped into the suburbs and swarmed from all over

Depends on whose rating them. Some people unjustifiably suck their dicks, while others only see their failures. On one side, "oorah g*ds chosen people, stealing prototype Russian radars like it aint even hard 420" and on the other its "lol jobnik faggots broadcasting troop movements on national tv, conscript cucks"

>>30960257
except if nato pulled support from them, they would be wiped off the map that very night

>>30960276
That is pretty disingenuous.

>>30960276
I doubt it, in the past century Arabs have been complete disasters when it comes to fighting wars. I'm sure the kikes could hold their own.

>>30960276
Egypt can do some damage, but Jordan wouldn't be able to cross the rift valley. Syria can't cross the Golan Heights.

>>30960276
I wasn't aware Israel was part of NATO, or was officially supported by the organization in any capacity. Unless by 'NATO' you mean the US.

>>30960276
>what was the 1968 war

Hell even in 1973 they still came out on top.

We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn’t have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, "Save me!" He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them.

t. Brezhnev

fucking arabs man, if I had to choose between Arabs and Israel, I know my choice.

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>>30960184

>implying all those Arab nations aren't naturally unstable as fuck due to tribal and sectarian rivalries

>>30960276

see image

>>30960115
I think you meant to say the US Marine Corps

>>30960644
While i would like a source, i totally can see this happening.

>select 12 storefronts
>"mistyped captcha"
>select 7 street signs

>>30960644
Good thing we don't have to choose between white hating "gods chosen" and white hating Allah's chosen.

>>30960115
Whats with the chef hat?

>>30960848

It's called a Mitznefet or some shit.

The idea is it "breaks" the shape of a helmet. So if you see the top of that helmet poke up over a wall you may wrongly assume it's a bush at a glance or something or if you're prone you won't see the distinctive rounded shape of a helmet.

Or that's the idea at least.

>>30960810
http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB430/Chernyaev%201973%20final%20PDF%20version.pdf

page 69

At the time, Israel had crossed the suez and was near cairo (also surrounded the 3rd army)

They're a conscript military that is surrounded by retards.

If the Arabs could into war competently. Israel would have gone away in the 1960s.

>>30960208
>you now realize that call of duty was 6 years ago

>>30960184
Arabs suck... They can all be wiped out by Jewfire nuclear weapons for all I care.

>>30960276
And yet the most wealthy Arab country, Saudi Arabia, can't even take over a small dirt-poor 3rd world country (Yemen) that it almost completely surrounds on all sides

>>30960754
go back to le upboat land

>>30960345
>>30960439
>>30960585
>>30960589
>>30960644
>>30960754
>>30961195
hello jidf, thanks for correcting the record 2 shekels have been deposited into your account

>>30960899
Awesome, thanks anon!

>>30961220
>>30961249

Oh look, it's a typical Arab getting salty as fuck when your inferiority is called out.

Arab armies are absolute garbage and the vast majority of their insurgency tactics rely on hitting the weakest of civilian targets or fighting Arab armies as useless as themselves. At least the VC expended most of their energy actually troubling the US Army itself.

Any competent force will scythe straight through them, like the small Russian efforts in Syria, who have basically made up the deficit left by SAA incompetence. Look up the casualties from the 1st Gulf War, 100 to 1 K/D ratio.

>>30962179

And before I get chewed out, I mean Arab militias and Arab armies. Both are plagued by issues, but the former tend to be more competent somehow - not that it would matter if you're not constrained by "hearts and minds" bullshit.

>>30960163
this, they fuck shit up and I hear noone shills for them.

>>30961249
seriously, arabs are only good at killing other arabs, and compared to other genocidal countries, they're still not that good at it.

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>>30962179
>arab
no

theres 1.6b muzzies, even witha 100:1 kd they would still steam roll kikeland

>>30962279
go away jidf, the world is turning on you, hell even sjws are calling you out for being zionists

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>>30962327

>>30962327
>theres 1.6b muzzies, even with a 100:1 kd they would still steam roll kikeland

muslims aren't the soviet union. they're internally divided and scattered across africa ME and south east asia. Their armies are notoriously undisciplined.
when not winning by a huge margin they are crumbling. Do you really see pakistan giving enough of a fuck to send troops to the Golan.

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>>30962327
>go away jidf, the world is turning on you, hell even sjws are calling you out for being zionists

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>>30962426
<

>>30962475
yes, if they had the chance to glass kikeland, they would temporarily put aside their differences

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Many Arabs consider the IDF to have one of the worst infantry in the region, or at least less experienced and motivated than the regulars of Hezbollah, Hamas, Kurds, the Iranians and IS. They often deride the Jews and say that they only inflict more casualties because of their material advantage. The Arabs assure themselves of this over the internet.

The average Israeli conscript certainly is less impressive than his forebears from the 1960s or even the 1980s

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>>30962496
So why don't they, Pakistan is muslim nuclear Power but for some reason they don't turn tel aviv in to glass.

>if they had the chance to glass kikeland,
So what happened in 1949,1968,1973

>>30962554
>So what happened in 1949,1968,1973
we did, the us is the only thing standing in their way

>>30961195
Saudis are the poster-child for gear being secondary to a proper organization, esprit de corps and military culture.

>>30962612
>Soviets support Arabs heavily in 1968 and 1973
>US only helps Israel in 1973
>Arabs lose all three

The man who is good for excuses is seldom good for anything else.

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>>30962612

>Muslims actually believe this

>>30962537
>The average Israeli conscript certainly is less impressive than his forebears from the 1960s or even the 1980s

How so? Is he less motivated, Can he not shoot straight? I would argue that occupying enemy territory keeps a reliable pool of battle hardened reservists in a way that armies of the other regional powers cannot.

He's certainly better equipped. His intel is better. His AT and manpads are better.

>>30962667
whatever man, people in the us are increasing turning on kikeland, their days are numbered

>>30962682
im scottish

>>30960276
>NATO support

Back to /pol/

>>30962612
>us is the only thing standing in their way

Remember Jimmy Carter pleading for the life the Egyptian 3rd army. Seems like the US bailed out the muslims there

>>30962690
>US ceases aid to Israel
>Israel still has 300 nuclear warheads and a large economy
>Arab leaders spill tremendous amount of spaghetti explaining why they haven't pushed the Juden into the sea yet

>>30962695
i can browse both

>>30962705
whats your point?

>>30962719
kikeland is dependant on our holohoaxbux to exist, something even trump said he will end, 300 nukes wouldnt even destroy iran

>>30962687

Insurgencies =/= conventional warfare. The 2006 war was a bit of a wake up because the entrenched Hezbollah managed to inflict pretty significant losses.

Israel went through 3 real wars in 25 years.

>>30962537

Honestly to me reads like the usual fox and the grapes of less technologically advanced or technologically oriented forces. They always cry about how their doughty rough and tumble man's man warrior is a true soldier. Even if it's true it's irrelevant that some hard scrabble Pashtun is a better 'pure' fighter than a US marine when the last time combat was such a level playing field of 1v1 me faggot was pre-gunpowder times. Didn't matter at omdurman that a fuzzy wuzzy was a proud and virile warrior who had been plying the trade of a warrior-aristocrat since he was a little boy vs some recently conscripted Fellahin peasant who wasn't as motivated and experienced.

"Whatever happens, we have got the Maxim gun, and they have not."

>>30962780
lolno

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gdp+of+israel

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=US+military+aid+to+Israel

>>30962780
It can glass mecca, medina, damage oil fields, harbors, and decapitate the various dictatorships around them.

the dictators greatest fear is death and loss of power, not national ruin.

>>30962721
I think his point is that Israel has proven itself capable of self-defense without direct US intervention, even when nearby arabs are getting similar support from the Soviet Union (an equal rival to the US). If the arabs couldnt win with the SU helping them, what does that say about the coalition's armies vs. Israels?

Its pretty rare to see a numerically superior force (superior in just about every category, with roughly equivalent tech to boot) get BTFO'd so hard by a surrounded, smaller force that the bigger guy loses territory.

>>30960115
no, the IDF is battle tested atleast albeit against kebab goat fuckers but nontheless

the most overrated would be Russia's military
>no socks
>constantly raped by your NCO and squad mates
>cant afford gas
>economy the size of Spain's
>"NATO will cease to exist if Finland joins"
>"A-America u-u beter not station troops in P-Polan I m-mean it"
>"Esti u better not join NATO or we will invade u"
>"what do you mean shut up"

>>30962780

This is the most moronic thing I've read.

The 5 billion they get for existing is a farce, but if they didn't get it then Israel would still be there. If it didn't then Egypt and Jordan would lose 1 billion NEETbux each, too.

The 300 warheads I assure you are enough to lay waste to the whole ME for the next decade. That was the whole point. If the Arabs came at them, then they'd be under real threat of annihilation.

>>30962897
Iirc the no-socks thing had a logical process behind it involving sweaty socks and frostbite risk

>>30962906
They don't get it for existing, they get it as part of a system of bribes that the US laid out in the late 70s to stop the Arabs from having another conventional war with Israel.

Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia also get monies for the same reason.

>>30962840
we make up 1% of their gdp, thats 1/2 of their military budget or $500 per person

>>30962869
>It can glass mecca, medina, damage oil fields, harbors, and decapitate the various dictatorships around them.
you glass mecca, you really do unite the muzzies, not to mention that if we no longer support kikeland, then were against its existance, which means all of nato is as well

>I think his point is that Israel has proven itself capable of self-defense without direct US intervention,
not without our weapons and money

>the arabs couldnt win with the SU helping them,
the su lost one proxy war to us, but won the others, whats your point?

>>30962906
>lay waste to the whole ME for the next decade
radiation levels even from a direst strike only are lethal for 2 weeks bud

>>30962932
I don't know if you know this, but Israel spends 1,800 per capita on defense.

Their economy varies more from year to year by a larger amount than the entire US military aid program.

Also

>he thinks NATO is involved in any way with Israel
>he thinks most of NATO's members aren't openly antagonistic towards Israel

>>30962976
>I don't know if you know this, but Israel spends 1,800 per capita on defense.
so they get the gun without the boolits?

>he thinks NATO is involved in any way with Israel
>he thinks most of NATO's members aren't openly antagonistic towards Israel
exactly and once we join them, kikeland is finished forever

>>30962997
Just like North Korea, amirite?

Literally nobody trades with those guys.

But yeah, 3 billion in an economy with 290 billion a year isn't very much.

Saudi Arabia spends 10% of GDP on the military. Israel easily could, they just don't need to.

You're operating under the classic noobie mistake that only the US matters.

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>>30962932
See the nuclear option is both deterrent and dead-mans-hand. Its their final "fuck you" swan song.

Israel's military policy is fundamentally one of existential threat, ie "if we lose we all die in holocaust 2.0, desert boogaloo". This isnt "america fights vietnam" to them, where it is ideological. Every war to them is Operation Barbarossa.

And if they lose, they are taking everyone involved down too.

pic related.
>not quite the pic i wanted but i lost the cobra with the hand grenade threatening to kill everyone

(As a side note, basically all muzzies are against them anyway)

>>30962976
All the NATO members that matter have been bending over consistently to not ruffle Israel. Zionist networks of influence have a lot of political and economical clout in the US, France, Britain, Germany... And hardly need to make a secret of it.
Sure that's not NATO, just its meaningful part.

>>30962932
>radiation levels even from a direst strike only are lethal for 2 weeks bud
And poison the crops for a few decades. But it's fairly irrelevant. The deterrent effect of nukes is in the prospect of having your biggest cities destroyed down to the bedrock in a split second.
I think it was de Gaulle who said having enough nukes to vaporize the oceans was useless, you're fine as long as you can raze New-York and Moscow.

>>30962906
>The 300 warheads I assure you are enough to lay waste to the whole ME for the next decade. That was the whole point. If the Arabs came at them, then they'd be under real threat of annihilation.

As a pessimist this my only possible world peace scenario.

>US eventually stops backing israel because muh oppression in Palestine.

>Some mullah in Iran or wherever, drops the big one on Tel Aviv

>Some fuck on CNN says The REAL VICTIMS are the Israeli arabs in Tel Aviv

>Israel Glasses Mecca, Medina, and any muslim city with more than 300,000 souls.

>maybe Pakistan is safe maybe not. Pakistan and India probably won't exchange nukes as a result.

>Islam is gutted as a "Triumphant" Ideology without Mecca. Lepanto 2.0

>Reduced to a powerless deathcult

>ME ground under the heel of US China and Russia grabbing resources and territory .

>Eventually long term fallout clean up efforts turn into Civilized colonies.

>>30962932

>if we no longer support kikeland, then were against its existance, which means all of nato is as well

Align with group of Arabs who have comprehensively failed, time and again, to make functional states and armies since long before Israel existed.

Between the fall of the Ottomans and the rise of Israel was just 30 years of revolution and typical Arab infighting. Before that was the Ottomans pacifying more Arab infighting.

>>30963051
>>30963060
>he thinks the Israelis want to use their nukes on the enemies cities when they can nuke the armored divisions that are invading their country

Nigga, if there's one thing Jews like doing, it's surviving.

They're not going to spend any warheads on murder suicide when they could use them to destroy Arab NBC and conventional forces.

For the love of Oppenheimer.

>>30963025
saudis spend 80b on military with a gdp of 1.7t

>biggest cities destroyed down to the bedrock in a split second.
they dont have the ability to reach ny

>>30963092
whats your point?

>>30962932
>SU won afghanistan and communism won the Korean War

the rest of the conflicts during the cold war is irrelevant to the discussion at hand, arabs and the USSR vs US and Israel.

Israel is an arms producer nowadays. They dont use Abrams, and they mainly use Tavors and before that Galils. Yeah they had some stuff, but our shit wasnt so magically superior in the 60s and 70s to justify that type of ass-kicking.

so the fundamental question is, how is such a tiny nation a survivor of numerous coalitions, supported by a major super power? How does that make them a meme army? The only logical answer is that they arent a meme army, and their neighbors are likely incompetent.

Or you believe in jew magic and God helped them, either/or.

>>30963118
The GDP of Saudi Arabia is 700 billion though.

And why precisely are Arab leaders going to attack Israel if there's a high chance that they'll die in the process, and no chance that it will end with a comfier life than they started out with?

You think they're as stupid as the average raghead on the street? Hell no, these are people who have spent their careers as political animals in one of the world's most dangerous political scenes.

>>30963079

The world is probably heading down that path.

>Islamic majorities in Europe
>Israel abandoned
>Arabs or Iran get the bomb and use it because no one cares any more
>Israel goes insane and flattens everything Muslim

>>30963159
>he fell for the Eurabia meme

>>30963115
>thinks 300 nukes is needed to stop divisions

i never said they wouldnt use them that way.

and i explicitly mentioned infrastructure and leadership areas as well.

Given Israel's small size, they dont have a lot of room to decide "nuke" or "dont nuke" during a conflict. Defense-in-depth is a bit harder when you can cross a nation on a tank of gas., thats what i would be concerned about; Israel goes to war with neighbors again, suffers a sudden loss of land, and jumps the gun without a reasonable conventional effort.

>>30962932
300 warheads is enough to target and annihilate every major city, military base, and infrastructure center in Iran, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Iraq.

Soviet Union lost proxy wars in Africa trying to prop up regimes, lost again in Afghanistan, and lost multiple times in the middle east against Israel.

>>30963118

>whats your point?

The USA is about projecting power globally. It has strategic allies like Japan, Korea, NATO - all to piss off the China and Russia.

Most of these alliances are a legacy of the cold war. Arabs - as the Soviet quotes prove - are not worth the trouble.

>>30963131
>supported by a major super power?
we are the only super power, russia is only a regional power

>How does that make them a meme army?
because in a total war, they would lose

>Or you believe in jew magic and God helped them, either/or.
no, but we do have as many zionist kikes in the us as they do in kikeland, some are in politics, some a business leaders, some create institutions like tavistock

>>30963151
> Arab leaders going to attack Israel if there's a high chance that they'll die in the process
to rid the world of kikes

>You think they're as stupid as the average raghead on the street?
no, but if they had the chance they would take it

>>30963202
>300 warheads is enough to target and annihilate every major city, military base, and infrastructure center in Iran, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Iraq.
so does iran, im 100% fine with MAD, i dont give a shit about the muzzies, i just hate the foreskin stealing kikes more

>>30963208
>all to piss off the China and Russia.
why would we want to piss off china? they own most of our debt

> Arabs - as the Soviet quotes prove - are not worth the trouble.
i dont give a shit about arabs, i dont think we should give kikeland money, or intervene if the muzzies want to take them out

>>30963169

>he fell for the Eurabia meme

France will be that way in the distant future thanks to simple demographics. Then you've got your true Muslim nuclear power, not memes like Iran and Pakistan.

>>30963193
>thinks 300 nukes is needed to stop divisions

Really, yeah, if their armored spearheads no longer exist, the general headquarters no longer exist, they tend to stop pretty easy.

Nuclear weapons and conventional warfare go together like hellfire and brimstone.

Especially if the other guy has less nuclear weapons than you do.

>>30963259
They're 89% white.

Muslim birth rates have been dropping.

>>30963251
>why would we want to piss off china? they own most of our debt

This is a meme, most US Gov't is held by US banks and citizens. That's why we don't just massively devalue and pay off our debt

>>30963251

>or intervene if the muzzies want to take them out

You don't. America has provided more physical military support to the Saudis since 1991 than it has to Israel. The Gulf War was basically done to sure up oil holdings in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.

>>30963312
whats your point? until we formally tell kikeland they can go fuck themselves, they are safe

>>30963286
white frenchman have a sub replacement birth rate. Literally a dying race

>>30963286

Still higher than the locals. And the immigration is far outstripping all reproduction.

If you don't get FN style "fuck off we're full" leadership, you're going to have a new Lebanon

>>30963251

I was specifically talking about the 60s and 70s, when any reasonable person would regard the Soviets as a superpower. Keep in mind that at the time, the Soviet Union was arguably more powerful than the United States, or at least was perceived to be.

that being said:
>two sides (A and B)
>both sides are supported by major superpowers
>Side A is numerically superior, with unlimited fuel and roughly equal tech, completely surrounding Side B
>Side B is desperate and fears genocide and the elimination of their state, has small leads in some equipment
>Side B completely BTFOs side A several times

Israel, being backed by a major superpower, went to war with coalitions of regional rivals (also backed by an equally powerful superpower) and still won in a conventional war setting.

HOW does that make Israel a meme army when the other guy has equal support from another party?

who is Israel going up against in your scenario? The USA? Iraq? Iran?

Because i think its reasonable to say that USSR/USA aids balance out for past conflicts (in fact, that aid favors the arabs), but Israel didnt just fend off their rivals but actually made territory gains in one of them.

thats not a meme, anon, that is a good application of military expertise.

>>30963330

Why?

Aside from stupid stormfag memes, it serves literally no purpose.

You think disgruntled Muslims will stop attacking the West? No, they now have growing populations of Muslims who want Sharia. Places like Thailand have little to do with Israel but get fucked up by bombings because the Muslims there want Sharia.

If Israel ceased to exist tomorrow, there would be no change in the number of Islamist attacks because that is point #374 on a long list of religiously motivated reasons they attack. Iran and the Saudis are having a sectarian proxy war that has very little to do with Israel.

>>30963259
>France will be that way in the distant future thanks to simple demographics
Yeah, nah. Though we could realistically have fragmentation-type incident with dense areas going full retard (pretty much what happened in the last Wars of Religion or in modern times in the Balkans, ME, South East Asia...).

>>30963343
>immigration meme
There's not much in the way of immigration these days. Our problem's really more domestic than anything else.

>>30963339
>white frenchman have a sub replacement birth rate.
Yeah. Same as most of Europe or other developed places worldwide. That's what happens when you have high standards of living and a slow economy. We'll probably have a conflict and the demography picking back up having that. French population has been hitting glass ceilings constantly since Antiquity. For some reason we never really exceed our normal population limit and have to export it like it happened to the Germans, Swedes, Italians...

Anyway, it's pretty much a pointless debate. People all over 4chan and the likes want to convince themselves France will die because they get a kick out of it.

>>30963403 is very correct. They hate us because that resent the success of the west in all it forms.They hate US because we beat them in Spain Lepanto and Eastern Europe. A fact which their religion holds to be impossible. Everyone in the military and state department of the US need to read Bernard Lewis instead of the Kite Runner

This thread is silly.

1. Yes, they are overrated. They win because they're fighting Arabs in conventional wars. Even France would dominate.
2. A prolonged war, the type America fights, would destroy them.
3. They lost a lot of tanks to militia faggots with chink ATGMs in Lebanon, then tried to downplay the fuck out of it in the media.
4. But for as small a country as it is, they're quite capable of fighting very intense short-term wars. Imagine Greece, but actually good at things and without its head up its ass.

However, like all states predicated upon messianic hubris, they take that a step too far and believe they're much more powerful than they really are. Maybe it's just Israelis who make that mistake, I don't know. Their brass was practically sucking Obama's dick for mid-air refueling in case they had to attack Iran's nuclear sites, though. So at least their leadership is aware of their lack of capabilities.

>>30960115
yes

>>30964850
/theads

>>30960115
Didn't we just had the same thread about the BAF and then the US army? Who's next? The Russkis?

>>30961007
You also realize today was the day of No Russian

>>30960184
Yet it was planned and the jewish immigration started in the 19th century. While it was still under ottoman rule.

Seems like the concept of an ethnic state bothers you. As does historically accurate information.

>>30960276
You mean like what happened in 1948 (Western European and US embargo on weapons sales to Israel hardly qualifies as support, not to mention 1948 predates the foundation of NATO)
1956 USSR and the US worked together to roll back Israeli gains on the Egyptian front, while the UK and France supported Israel in this war, their involvement started as the IDF was already rolling half way through Sinai and was pretty minimal outside of containing the Egyptian fleet
1967 - No western involvement
1973...?
Ok, maybe you can list US support in 1973 as something that significantly assisted Israel in victory, maybe... But then that aid would not have been even needed had the USSR not supplied 3 times as much equipment to Syria and Egypt during the same war.

>>30961249
No sensible argument to refute facts. The only one you're making a fool of is yourself.

>>30962327
>hell even sjws are calling you out for being zionists
The left has traditionally opposed Israel since 1967. Their mentality is predictable, always root for the weaker faction. Doesn't help that Israel is a nationalistic state making it automatically 'evil' for denying refugees and trying to preserve a Jewish majority by law.

>theres 1.6b muzzies, even witha 100:1 kd they would still steam roll kikeland
That's not how it works sweety, never mind logistics and so on, most Muslims have no interest in Israel. Frankly, not even most Arabs care much for the Palestinians.

>>30960872
It works. It messes with the brains shape recognition, so if a guy is wearing one it becomes really hard to see him. Combined with other camo techniques in certain conditions you could walk within bad-breath distance of him without knowing.

>>30962932
>Israel hater
>Can't spell
I'm not surprised.

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>>30961249

>>30962809
The 2006 Lebanon war was a shitfest on multiple levels, and showed some real flaws in IDF training and doctrine. The soldiers themselves did a pretty good job, and as the procedures were revised following the war, it's hard to draw real conclusions on the quality of Israel's fighting force from it. I'd also point out that every western military would have a hard time fighting a guerellia army with Kornets if they had tight ROE.

>>30962537
>Many Arabs consider the IDF to have one of the worst infantry in the region, or at least less experienced and motivated than the regulars of Hezbollah, Hamas, Kurds, the Iranians and IS. They often deride the Jews and say that they only inflict more casualties because of their material advantage. The Arabs assure themselves of this over the internet.

lol, Arabs always loved their propaganda. here are a few quotes from the Egyptian propaganda radio network while 1967 war was raging (boradcasted in Hebrew to demoralize Israelis):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB517uodBj0

>The Arab airforces now have full control of the air, how could your criminal rulers make such a mistake. What did these fools think? But now it's too late.

>The Arab armies are in Palestine and working to free it. This is the time of reckoning we were awaiting for 19 years. Right now are forces are at the gate of Tel Aviv.

>Fierce fighting is happening in the North, South and East. Israeli forces are routing in fear of our advancing armies. The Israeli defeat on the first day was humiliating. A while battalion was destroyed.

And so on.

>The occupation of Palestine and of Tel Aviv would be as simple as a military promenade
1948, Azzam Pasha, then Arab League Secretary-General.

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>>30960208
Russia are a fucking joke.

>>30962537
Truth is Hamas is pretty incompetent, almost all of their kills are either by ATGMs or by IED's explosive tunnels, mortars.
Hamas is pretty incompetent when it comes to actual infantry style combat.
Some Hezballah "SF" Are probably the most competent in infantry fighting from those listed. Their elite units average out to be about as good as Israeli infantry.

Looking at battles in the 2006 Lebanon war, even infantry while the IDF infantry was advancing in urban highly fortified areas, complete with attack and supply tunnels they managed to come out on equal or better K/D ratios in most engagements. In many of these the Israeli AF and artillery could not assists in the CQC itself because of the risk to hit own forces.
But I doubt anyone ITT has actually bothered with reading Arab and Israeli accounts of the engagements... As Syrian proves, air superiority is not the end all and be all.

Hezballah itself doesn't rate it's ability as high as this board, highlighted by the Zero attempts they've made to stage a counter attack in the entire 2006 war. Rather they stayed on the defensive where they had hope of approaching parity with the Israeli unity though fortification in mountainous and urban terrain.

Hezballah's weakness shines brightest in their failure to capture the small Syrian town of Zabadani, while having every advantage known to man. From numerical, to armament, in troop quality to one sided air and artillery support.
They had the town under fire control from the ridges directly above it and a complete surround.
They have sent their elite units, with artillery and air force support, with numerical superiority and still failed.
The IRGC were called in, but still not enough progress was made.

Zabadani highlights the advantages the defender enjoys in a fortified urban defense. Somewhat like the advantages Hezballah had over Israel in 2006. Yet still failed to stop the Israeli advance.

>>30962687
> I would argue that occupying enemy territory keeps a reliable pool of battle hardened reservists in a way that armies of the other regional powers cannot.

In the 2000's Israel has pulled many conscripts from to perform the role of light infantry in the WB instead of training for their designated roles. That means combat engineers, tankers, artillery corps man and so on were not prepared to operate their roles if/when a "real" war breaks out.
And so when the 2006 Lebanon war happened, some of the people manning the tanks have not *been inside* a tank, let a lone trained in one for over a year. The reservists often far outperformed the conscripts...

The infantry and some SF were plagued by similar problems. While the ability to execute urban combat was improved, there was little training for open field, mountainous or long distance combat as well as combined arms training.

This was not limited just for the combat troops, but effected logistics corps training and the mindset of the intelligence corps. The later for example preferred to keep information on Hezballah fortification top secret instead of transferring it to the fighting units that entered Lebanon in order to not expose methods of operation and so on. But this defeats the purpose of the corps.

>>30962780
>kikeland is dependant on our holohoaxbux to exist

You mean that money which is 2-3% of the Israeli budget? Come on now, be serious.
Furthermore the money is transferred as compensation for the $2BN aid/year the US promised Egypt for them to swing from the USSR camp to becoming US friendly in the height of the cold war, and for the Israeli withdrawal from Sinai allowing said deal.
Haven't seen you complain about this aid though for some mysterious reason.

>>30962906
Actually, Israel has received an average of $3bn a year, while the Arab countries around us (Egypt, Lebanon, Palis, Jordan and Iraq) receive about $4.9bn yearly.

All these Israel lovers itt
Why?

>>30967685
>Remove kebab
>Nationalistic
>Repeatedly BTFO'ing much larger forces
It's not like /k/ enjoys any of the above, is it?

>>30967701
I forgot that the only thing this board concerns itself with is military achievement. The country itself is shit and everyone would honestly be better off if it got overrun by the kebabs.

>>30962327
You're manlet as fuck, and seriously illusioned if you think that the worlds muslims would "steamroll" Israel. The worlds muslims can't even get their shit together enough to stop steamrolling themselves.

>>30962537
Israeli conscripts, even the fat chicks, take their service very seriously. If they didn't then the country would cease to exist.

>>30962897
>Economy the size of Spain
Kek. I don't believe it.

>>30962926
Yet it was the Americans pushing Israel NOT to destroy the Egytian 3rd army (consisting of 45,000 soldiers) and to stop the advance of a similar encirclement of the Egyptian 2cond army.
By that time the 1st army was already half ravaged so the Egyptian army was on the brink of collapse. Only USSR threats of direct intervention, coupled with moving their marines closer to the theater, and the US pressure on Israel stopped the Egyptian army from collapsing.

The US aid to Egypt was created to assure Egyptian dependence on the US for supplies and parts. The biggest benefactor being the US, with Egypt tearing itself from the Soviet alliance into becoming friendly with the US and NATO.

>>30963060
All the NATO members that matter have been bending over consistently to not ruffle Israel
???
>France threatens to recognize Palestinian state if no progress with Israel
www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/01/29/france-threatens-recognize-palestinian-state-if-no-progress-israel/79538656/

>Spanish lawmakers vote in favor of recognizing Palestine
http://www.dw.com/en/spanish-lawmakers-vote-in-favor-of-recognizing-palestine/a-18072505

>>30963251
>we are the only super power, russia is only a regional power
Low IQ, what a surprise. Re-read your own conversation idiot, you guys were talking about 1973 and 1967. The Soviet union was a super power.

>no, but we do have as many zionist kikes in the us as they do in kikeland
Not quite.

>to rid the world of kikes
Not everyone is an irrational maniac. Some actually care about their own well being and chances of success.

>no, but if they had the chance they would take it
The Arabs and Israel are not isolated in a bubble. Even if the Arabs had the ability to win a war against Israel, if the price would have been subsequently being conquered by Shia and Iran, they likely would not take the chance.

>why would we want to piss off china? they own most of our debt
False, but we have already established you are low IQ.

>>30967739
>implying kebabs are better than jews
Even /pol/ isn't usually this retarded.

>>30967765
Both are bad, but kebabs are easier to handle. Jews are just a pain in the ass

>>30967769
>kebabs are easier to handle
That must be why Europe is overrun with Jewish rapefugees and the kebabs are integrated into society.
Oh wait...

>>30967795
>Jews
>Integrated into society
And I wonder who's behind the acceptance of rapefugees...
https://youtu.be/MFE0qAiofMQ

>>30963697
>They lost a lot of tanks to militia faggots with chink ATGMs in Lebanon

Hezballah was armed with Kornets though, which were top of the line ATGM in the world and still are one of the best. I'm not sure what do you mean by 'lost' as that's not a defined term.
5 tanks were destroyed. 2 of these by IED/AT mine (one of these is the one that was destroyed by a mine on the first day of the conflict).
Many more were hit and penetrated, resulting in about 23-25 deaths total.
It's hard to say how many tanks were actually penetrated, but estimates are around 20-30 tanks.

>>30967817
>Well, we didn't "lose" Vietnam...

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>>30967537
>The soldiers themselves did a pretty good job
I disagree. The lack of training was showing, especially so in the armored corps. Infantry was also sub par compared to what should be expected or compared to the UK/US performance in Iraq/compared to performance in Gaza subsequently.

>>30967809
>A lone woman, with pretty much no money and a youtube channel with 200 followers can take down the west

whew lad. How about pic related

>>30967836
>Implying she's an aberration
Dig a little, retard
Both kebabs and Jews are bad
However, kebabs being let in are in significant part a result of Jewish influence and effort in Western politics. Zionism is cancer and the capital of that is, of course, Israel. Kebabs are a symptom. If the West was healthy, the borders would be closed.

>>30967829
The Hezballah cross border attacks, like the one that launched the 2006 war stopped as a consequence of the war.
Seems like Israel has achieved their strategical objective. Can the same be said about the US in Vietnam?

>>30967844
Dig a little, retard
I did, and found out that Specter is a no one with no power nor influence. In fact, it's likely that /pol/ is responsible for 95% of her viewership.

>>30967836
Oh and, that's not her channel dumbass
Who owns the banks?
The schools?
The media?
I'm not saying it's just (((them))), by they have a very significant role in the things that are bringing us down
>>30967853
She's an example, this is what Zionism wants
I just think that Jewish influence in our politics government and media is disproportional and harmful. Zionism needs to go

>>30967859
>Who owns the banks?
>The schools?
>The media?
In Germany, Sweden, UK etc?
Almost entirely non Jewish Whites.
Can you name a single significant German bank owned by Jews?

>She's an example, this is what Zionism wants
Why does she get to represent what Zionism wants? Instead of say, the Israeli government... which warned Germany against accepting Arab "refugees"?

Just because you'd like it to be so?

But we're deviating from military discussion to entertaining theories based on the rambling of a random Jewish woman.

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>>30967880
K.

>>30967901
>exposure to true information does not matter anymore. A person who was demoralized is unable to assess true information. The facts tell nothing to him, even if I shower him with information, with authentic proof, with documents and pictures. ...he will refuse to believe it.... That's the tragedy of the situation of demoralization.

>>30967918
I'm not in the mood for a long conversation but I wanted to post that webm. I'm not anti-Jew; they can have their country, and I'm jot a Jewish conspiracist either. When I was referring to education and schools, there is a visible historical Zionist influence in the modern liberal school. Also, Zionist beliefs are not reflected by the government of Israel. When I was referring to banks I was thinking if the American ones. American aid to Israel is not a big deal, but my biggest concern is Zionists in positions of power. I really don't give a fuck about Jews, I'm just worried for my own people and culture. I see Zionism and its effects as being very negative, and I want to stop that. Time to sleep.

>>30967938
>zionist influance
>IN LIBERAL SCHOOLS
AYY
Y
Y

You should really take a look at the facebook/twitter profiles of those who come to "free palestine" rallies. 99.99% of them are voting democrats (which they believe is the same as liberal)

>>30967938
>Zionist beliefs are not reflected by the government of Israel.

Zionism = Jewish nationalism in Israel. The current Israeli government is both Jewish and nationalistic. They are pretty much the embodiment of Zionism.

>When I was referring to education and schools, there is a visible historical Zionist influence in the modern liberal school.
Quite the opposite, most universities have both a liberal and a strong anti Israeli flavor, especially in the US and in Europe. Somewhat due to the growing number of Muslims is the relevant age group.

>American aid to Israel is not a big deal, but my biggest concern is Zionists in positions of power.
This I second, double loyalties should not be tolerated in positions of power, if at all.

>>30967949
Zionism had a hand in the beginning of the movement. By now it's self sufficient. Check out that she Frankfurt school and whatnot, that's a solid example. I don't want to derail this into /pol/ though, which I already did, so I'll just stop

>>30967938
Different anon here
>Zionism
>The natoinalistic hopes of the Jewish people
I don't see European education being in favor of any nationalism or nation-states, least of all the Jewish one. On the contrary, they seem dead set against it, and seem happy to condemn Israel at every turn, while making the exact mistakes the Israelites avoided.

>>30967951
>>30967955
Although I don't want to sound like too much of a conspiracy theorist, Zionism is more than it seems. The Jewish state is not representative of all the Zionist beliefs and goals, and it wouldn't be publicly. It has a very subversive, under the radar influence. It's clever that the young liberals are so anti-Israel while their whole movement is encouraging the downfall of Western culture, as that also benefits Israel. Western culture is strongly nationalistic and even racist in some regards. Zionism doesn't want that in its "greatest ally". Hence the slow decline of our culture and people is good for them. Zionism is very elitist and believes in pretty much the Jewish master race. Jews are pretty special and there's a lot of surprising stuff in their history and beliefs. Problem is, they don't let go of their loyalties once in power. I don't believe they're dominating the world or anything like that, but they are just another group competing for dominance and power, at our own expense. Feel free to disagree, I know I sound very /pol/, but these are my 2 cents.

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Question for everyone on this thread; you DO remember USS Liberty, right?

>>30967980
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._friendly-fire_incidents_since_1945_with_British_victims

take a pick and start hating on the burgers.

>>30962921
Nah its just a leftover from olden days, they're issuing socks now.

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>>30962248
haha hoho you are a funny guy.

>>30967974
I agree that Zionism is cancer, but I don't understand why they would Western culture destroyed.
>>30967980
Yes, and I think it was the result of incompetence.

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>>30967983
do you know who these are?

>>30967980
>US sends a spy ship to the coast of 2 countries ar war
>not allied with either at the time
>6th fleet, when asked by the Israelis, denies having any ships in the area (who would admit to having a spy ship?)
>sailing where hours before a Egyptian destroyer bombarded Israeli troops
>Spotted by Israelis, by error converting from km/h to knots looked to be going 34 knots, not 34 km/h= warship speeds
>gets shot
Apart from the conversion error, can you really blame the Israelis? Particularpy considering how they responded when they realized their mistake- immediate MEDEVAC and later compensation to the families.

>>30967997
Should I?

>>30967974
>fall of western culture benefits Zionism
This /pol/ meme needs to die. There is nothing the Jews have to gain from the fall of wester civ, much the opposite- they gained from its existance. If it would fall to commies or kebabs the Jews would only have a worse deal.

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>>30967999
if you're american, you should

these are 5 israeli jews who were caught right besides the WTC buildings during 9/11 incident.

3 of them were cheering for the explosion.

Their truck had explosives.

>>30967974
>as that also benefits Israel.

wait, wait, wait. So according to you transforming the west into an Islamic enemy is beneficial to Israel more than a west that is, as you claim, under Israel's control or at least allied to them?
All the while Israel is promoting hate for their own state in the few countries that were not predisposed against them, plus movements to boycott Israeli products and harm their own economy in the process?

That doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. Mind explaining these?

>>30968012
>if you're american
which I'm not.
I wouldn't mention the cheering if I were you, no one takes 9/11 seriously anymore, and the amount of people who cheered back then was unbelieveable - anyone from edgy american teens to sandniggers to russians in bumfuck siberia cheered when they heard about a terror attack on american soil.

>>30962921
They used footcloths instead, basically the footcloths could be taken off and completely dried if they got wet. The reason was frostbite like you said.

>>30968023
except the cheering israelis, weren't just cheering, they had bombs in their truck. many people say they were also soldiers,

>>30968036
>they were also soliders
>israelis
You are aware that conscription is mandatory right?

>>30968042
>you know that conscription is mandatory
that's why i said "many people say"

now answer my question
why the fuck are do israelis have a truck full of explosives near the 9/11 happening bulding

>>30968057
Trying to blow it up?

>>30968012
>these are 5 israeli jews who were caught right besides the WTC buildings during 9/11 incident.
1. No where in the article does it say they were Jewish. In fact no where in the article is it even corroborated that they were Israelis, beside the claim the suspects have maid. People may lie anon.
>Sources [...] said the men said they are Israeli tourists, but police had not yet been able to confirm their identities.

2. They were not apprehended right besides the WTC, at least according to your article.

3. A false claim, no where in the article is it suggested they had explosives, in fact it suggests that they did not have any as despite the bomb squad being called these men were not charged with any crime.

You do realize that in most cases the bomb squad is called, they find nothing.

>>30968036
>>30968057
>>30968023
I just want to note, for the sake a of honest discussion that:

>except the cheering israelis
No evidence to this effect has been presented ITT.

>they had bombs in their truck.
No evidence to this effect has been presented ITT.

>many people say they were also soldiers
No evidence to this effect has been presented ITT.

>>30968062
wait yeah forgot the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv5s_VEmZd0

skip to 0:18 to hear the witnesses

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>>30967996
>>30968009
>>30968019
Zionists desire the destruction of Western culture because the culture itself is hostile to Zionism and its ideas, namely that of Jewish superiority and global influence. Zionists fight against Western nationalism, isolationism, and traditionalism. I'm not saying that Zionists want the West to fall. What I am saying is that they want to remove elements of the West hostile to Zionism.

Islam weakens the West without taking over, adding to the nonthreatening muddle of cultures and peoples that is the current future of the West.

College students hate Israel because they hate nationalism, but they'll never get anywhere. Their anger against Zionism can be seen as a side effect of the total demonization of Western nationalism. However, they won't see or admit the Zionist roots in their own ideology.

As I said before, I don't believe that Zionists have the world in the palm of their hand, but I do believe that they have significant influence and actively try to shape the West in their favour.

>>30968073
>western nationalism
>western traditionalism
>western isolationsim
Keep the memes coming, senpai.

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>>30968083
Nice argument, friendo.
>>30967997
Pic related.

>>30968070
Ok, I watched the whole thing, not just the woman at 0:18.

The woman has seen people celebrating, which is pretty established. But their identity remains unclear on the account of things posted ITT.
They have claimed to be Israeli, which doesn't say much. And even if they were indeed Israelis, they could have easily been Arabs.

Later in your vid it's described that some Israeli youths actions:
>"may well be an organized intelligence-gathering activity"

It's possible that either they were:
1. Arabs
2. Surveillance operation. It's likely that Israel is spying on the US just like the US is spying on Israel and other allies such as France and Germany... No involvement in an actual attack is suggested.
Furthermore, the fact that these people were found, arrested and deported indicates that the justice system was working appropriately.

Basically your jumbling up unrelated cases. The unknowns claiming to be Israelis detained after 9/11 on that bridge. And 60 Israelis detained or arrested for possible espionage.

>>30968137
I mean, does this add anything (pic related)?:
>>30968094

>>30968073
>Zionists desire the destruction of Western culture because the culture itself is hostile to Zionism and its ideas

Western culture is against Jews having a state in Israel? That's a first...

>namely that of Jewish superiority and global influence.
Which are not tied to zionism... Furthermore, every culture has to have a sense of superiority to survive. The lack of which in the west in recent times is the main cause of western decline.
Chinese/Arabs/Muslims/Japanese and even successful African cultures have a sense of superiority.

>Zionists fight against Western nationalism, isolationism, and traditionalism.
You have provided zero evidence to support this, on contrary, you have provided evidence why it makes sense for Israel to support a nationalistic west, which "coincidentally" it does.
Israel supported Rhodesia, and White South Africa, both of which were pro Israel countries turned into centers of anti zionism as the Whites were removed from power.
Israel supported Serbia in the Balkan wars and Christians in the Bosnian civil war.
Israel has warned Germany against accepting Arab refugees.
Israel's gov supports SD, PVV and the FPO. Seems like facts support the logic of my statements.

>>30960115
no thats either the US, Chinese or Russian military

>>30967998
What do you mean by the conversion and warship speed thing?

>>30968157
If nationalism becomes the ideology of the West, Israel will lose many allies.

>>30968032
You can dry socks bro.

>>30968157
Zionism IS Jewish superiority and global influence. The Zionists are in part behind the decline of Western culture to allow them to influence the West further.
Evidence?
>Frankfurt school
>Leftist doctrines
>Globalism
All these have Jews behind them.

>>30968143
This does add information. There is corroboration that these were indeed Israelis.
Mind specifying the source for their names? As it's not listed in any of the documents provided thus far.

As for forknowladge, of course Israel had that, as did Egypt, Germany and plethora of other countries, including the US.
There are records of dozen warning by a dozen countries issued to the US of a coming AQ attack, all were seemingly ingnored.
For example:

>In the second week of August 2001, two high-ranking agents from the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence agency, came to Washington and warned the CIA and FBI that 50 to 200 al-Qaeda terrorists had slipped into the US and were planning an imminent “major assault on the US” aimed at a “large scale target”

>France also gave a warning that was an “echo” of Israel’s.

>Egypt warned US ahead of 9/11: Ex-Egyptian minister

etc.

>>30968173
>one liner statement without an attempt to reason.
Care to explain why? Rhodesia, White South Africa were close Israeli allies. Current day Hungary has good relations with Israel etc...

>>30968200
>Zionism IS Jewish superiority and global influence.

>I write something down therefore it must be true.
It's on the same level as SWJ retardation with "Racism towards whites cannot exist" and so on.
You are completely disregarding the meaning of the word to craft your own meaning instead.

>Frankfurt school
>Leftist doctrines
>Globalism

How are any of these Zionists. In fact the Leftists and their doctrines are remarkably anti-Zionists, which makes since as Zionism is Nationalism.
I think you're confused. Leftism =/= Zionism dear.

>>30968170
The ship was spotted by the IAF, who estimated it's speed in km/h. They passed the info on to central command, who relayed it to the navy. The navy measures speed in knots, and 1 knot is 1.85 km/h. Someone forgot to convert units, so the navy thought it was moving twice as fast as it really was! It looked to them like it was moving at speeds only a warship could, and combined with the reports of Egyptian destroyer activity in the area the conclusion was obvious.

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>>30968137
They can't be anything other than israelis because the woman's witness matches them

>3 guys cheering on van with 2 others people
>5 israelis later captured cheering with a van with explosives

>>30968280
Thank you anon.

>>30968320
>5 israelis later captured cheering with a van with explosives
But this literally did not happen. There is not a single source posted ITT claiming they had explosives, yet you continue to lie.
The woman's observation does not corroborate much but this does >>30968094 they were indeed Israelis.

Why is it so difficult for you to stick to the facts?

>>30968348
>>30968012

>>30968357
Thank you for pointing me to a source providing no evidence that there were explosives in the van.

Furthermore, in this post "suspicious" possessions are listed, such as a sock filled with $4k cash. But no explosives >>30968094.

I repeat
>Why is it so difficult for you to stick to the facts?

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>>30968320
>Oops, posted a /pol/ circlejerk (((infographic))) without sources, without context, which tries to reduce a complex geopolitical relationship into the weak side screwing over the strong one.
1/10 try again.

>>30968368
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-B2J7tp8eg

>>30968376
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/israel-accused-of-selling-us-secrets-to-china-1510406.html
http://www.alternet.org/story/154353/10_ways_aipac_undermines_democracy_at_home_and_in_the_middle_east
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Assassinations_page/Israel's_Central_Role_FJ.html
http://www.truedemocracy.net/td14/16.html
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/fbi-files-on-tupac-shakur-murder-show-he-received-death-threats-from-jewish-gang-1.355962
http://www.topinfopost.com/2014/11/17/fbi-files-extorting-tupac

>>30968416
>Jews killed tupac
lmao, we /hoodniggaz/ now?

>>30968436
They wanted to move their own rapper, Jewpac, into the top slot in order to sell copies of his album "Protekt Ya Shekels."

>>30968447
"Kosher Money Productionz" presents "jewish takeover".

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>>30968416
>Pollard
The Pollard affair was an absolute shitfest on both sides, and the Americans are far from clean. What Pollard stole was info the Israelis had already paid for, but was then denied to them. Much like the Cherbourg boats, the Israelis took what was theirs.
>A 1993 news article with no sources and no follow-on
23 years later, the Chinese seem not to be based on 1993 US tech, so it's possible the accusation was completely off the mark.
>An opinion piece on AIPAC by someone who doesn't understand US politics or Middle East power games.
If you think AIPAC has any real power, you need to learn more about realpolitik. AIPAC exist to fulfill the politican's dream- a place for grandiose speeches with no need to carry through.
>2 sourceless tinfoil JFK assasination conspiracy sites
Bruh are you even trying? This is even more ridiculous than the 9/11 shit you're selling.
>Haaretz
Literally Israel's HuffPo. Discarded automatically.
>Topinfo post
Sourceless rumors on tinfoil site. You call this a source?

My point stands.
>pic unrelated

>>30968416
Actually listened to this. Cop sounds like a good guy, corroborates what I am saying.
No evidence what so ever that there were explosives on the van.

Thanks for providing further evidence that you're a liar.

Go to 9:10:
Cop:
>I can't even tell if we had the right van, if these guys were the one's that were wanted for cheering or dancing or whatever they were doing.
>I have no proof that it was them. I was just stopping a van that was off by 1 numeral.

>>30960163
fpbp

>>30963193
>>30963261
One small point.
It is unlikely that the majority of Israel nucleat weapons are intended for battlefield use.
It is more probable that the primary targets of their nuclear forces are political and economic, with some counterforce capability.

The weapons are for the deterring conventional attack. The statement is "you can pick a fist fight with us, but if you are winning, we are going to use this grenade in my belt."

Actually stopping the conventional forces with the nuclear weapons probably not a major part of their strategy.

>>30969403
>I base my opinions on nothing but hot air.

I just don't understand why people do this. We don't have information either way, we have no information on the Israeli nuclear doctrine.
Really their nuclear doctrine could have easily shifted through the years. from deterrance against conventional armies in the 50's. To deterrence against a (too much of) direct Soviet intervention in support of the Arabs, don't forget that unlike the US, the USSR did deploy troops in the ME that fought for the Arabs against Israel.
To deterrence against a possible nuclear strike from an alleged Iranian nuclear program.

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>>30967739

>sub-/pol/ level retardation

They tried 3 times and failed. Since then, Israel has acquired nukes and all close Arab states bar Jordan have fallen into civil conflict.

If they ever did succeed and stage a 2nd holocaust, you'd be left with another Lebanon that would have its own shitty ISIS insurgency.

>>30969688
We know what platforms they use to deliver nuclear weapons.
That can tell us a great deal about what they intend to do with them.

For example, Popeye missiles fired from a submarine are unlikely to be useful in a tactical sense because of the difficulty in getting timely targeting data to the submarine.
Ballistic missiles also have minimum ranges that make them difficult to employ in to a nearby battlefield.

How someone designs and deploys their weapons can tell you a great deal about how they plan on using them.

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>>30967756
keep in mind this link is from 2014, BEFORE the sanctions made it worse

edit: cant post links now? its on buisness insider, pic related

>>30970001
So I'm having a conversation with someone that not only doesn't have a clue what he's talking about but also role plays like he does.
Nice.

Both the Soviet Union and the US deployed tactical nuclear weapons on board submarines, starting back in the fucking 60's.
One would imagine if it was possible with the communication equipment half a century ago, it's still possible now.

https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/nuke/RL32572.pdf
http://thediplomat.com/2016/02/declassified-us-nuclear-weapons-at-sea-during-the-cold-war/

Furthermore, popeye can be controlled from basically anywhere (that has a communication line) after it's launched not just from the submarine. You just need to give the sub orders to fire it at a general direction and take control.

>Ballistic missiles also have minimum ranges that make them difficult to employ in to a nearby battlefield.
Coincidentally Israel deploys non long range ballistic missiles too.

There is also this:
http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/03/26/report-new-f-35-fighter-jet-purchased-by-israel-from-u-s-can-carry-nuclear-bomb/

We also know that at least some Israeli F-4's were fitted to carry nukes.

>>30970001
>We know what platforms they use to deliver nuclear weapons.
They hid BLOS antitank missiles under everyone noses 20 years, "we know their weapons", pls.


>For example, Popeye missiles fired from a submarine are unlikely to be useful in a tactical sense because of the difficulty in getting timely targeting data to the submarine.
But Israel have air-launched Popeyes too. Also they revealed analog of SRAM recently, whatever it called.

>>30960931
This

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>>30963051
Yo

>>30970683
None of those links say what you claim.

>>30970683
>he wasnt here when based oppen was doxxed.

Laughingsluts.mkv

>>30967974
You're an idiot. I'm Zionist/10 and I'd fight and die for America and the Constitution. Any Jew who's not a fucking brainwashed SJP/JVP/BDS idiot would do the same. Barring Israel, the United States is literally the best place in the world to be Jewish. There's a solid amount of anti-Semitic hate crimes (at 2-2.5 times the rate Muslims get, but nobody talks about that), but we've never been pogromed, rounded up, or systematically exterminated here, and America isn't doing the far-left Israel/Jew-hatred anywhere near the level the Euros do. America, it's laws and culture, and it's way of life is good to us, and I think you'd be surprised how fiercely loyal most American Jews are to the Republic.

>>30960801
/thread

>>30970683
>So I'm having a conversation with someone that not only doesn't have a clue what he's talking about but also role plays like he does.
>Nice.
You're an idiot

I disagree, but I serve in the IDF

>>30972175
I agree and I served in the IDF. If the arabs were at least a quarter competent, Israel would have lost.

>>30967202
>the day of no russian is my birthday
neat

>>30972442
Fun fact.

About a quarter of American combat troops in WW2 reported pissing or crapping themselves at at least one point in combat.

The anal and urethral sphincters relax under extreme stress because the body considers them non-essential muscles.

>>30972195
'If X would have happened Y would have ensued' is not an argument

>>30970750
>20 years
30 actually. The last 3 were sort of shaky, but still.

>>30970683
You are a fucking moron

>>30971407
>>30971636
>>30974581
>>30971452
down to samefagging, pathetic mate.
I guess you're having trouble reading. Not surprise considering your mental disability.

>>30972442
>>30972473
left pic is a joke.
Right pic is photoshop.

Stop believing every crap posted on the internet.

>>30976323

We need the final solution to the /pol/ problem.

Hillary winning would be worth it just to have as many /pol/tards as possible die from rage aneurysms.

>>30970683
Hi, you must have just hopped over from /pol/ and have never heard of the greatest tripfags that ever was or ever will be.

Based OPpenheimer had the misfortune of being doxxed. The dox revealed that he was exactly who he claimed to be.

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A Britfag who had the opportunity to train with them a few years ago once posted that 'the IDF is a very big fish in a very small pond full of other organisms that can't even swim.'

I should have screen capped it. But I'm sure my memory is close enough.

>>30977592
He also posted a US nuke or two, which exist nowhere else on the internet, so...

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>>30960184
>>30960276
>>30961249
>>30962327
>>30962780
>>30967859
>>30968012
>>30968200
>>30968320
>>30972442
t. butthurt burgerstinians

>this thread is another nakba!

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>OP asks question
>Gets refuted
>/pol/ starts crying about Pollard and USS Liberty

wewlad

>>30960276
1.) All of Israel's major existential wars were fought without huge US aid. The first one was fought with a US embargo.

2.) US aid to Israel is 1% of their GDP and 15% of their Defense Budget. Israel could manage without it.

3.) Arabs are more dependent on Western/Russian-Soviet aid than Israel is.

4.) US has never had to intervene in an Israeli war, US has had to intervene to save the Arabs (Gulf War 1, Libya) and Russia had to intervene to save Syria.

5.) Who would destroy Israel overnight anyway? Egypt is a bigger Israeli ally than ever under Sisi and plagued by a shitty economy, Western dependence, and Sinai insurgency it can't curb. Saudi Arabia is an ally and can't fight for shit anyway. Syria and Iraq are a pile of ruins. Lebanon and Gaza are annoying and capable of limited damage but can't destroy squat. Jordan is an ally (Israel gives them attack helicopters now) and is at peace with them. Iran is far away and in shitty shape/bogged down in other theatres anyway.

6.) Nukes

Anyway, IDF was a lot more formidable in the 1980s when it was probably one of the top 10 most powerful conventional militaries in the world. After the 1990s it switched from a conventional army to counter-insurgency force which has had mixed results. That being said, there's nobody that can seriously rival them still.

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>>30977627
> big fish in a very small pond full of other organisms that can't even swim
Sounds about right.

Anyway, why this thread is still up? Are the mods in coma or something? The concentration of cancer here is so high that it needs to be purged.

>>30978214
>Saudi Arabia
>Israel's ally
No, they're both allies of the Americans so they sort of ignore each other.

>>30978249
Like cousins that hate each other but want to fuck.

>>30977627
This. The shota loving trip is right.

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>>30978214
You either get in line and start posting meme tier answers, or you can just git out.

>>30971489
Happy to have you. Now. Remove kebab

>>30978249
This was true until recently, but Obama's coddling of Iran and the rise of ISIS has resulted in the Saudi's becoming closer to Israel.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/saudi-media-battles-anti-semitism-warms-up-to-israel/
http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2016/05/28/28-may-16-world-view-report-israel-saudi-arabia-allying-iran-hezbollah/
http://www.algemeiner.com/2016/07/20/national-security-expert-israel-saudi-arabia-covertly-cooperating-against-iran/

Saudi's won't recognize Israel of course, but they already have Indonesia-tier relations. Which is when despite a lack of formal relations they still trade with/buy weapons from/cooperate with Israel. Indonesia, Morocco, Bahrain, Oman, Kuwait, and UAE are other examples.

>>30978356
The only countries legitimately hostile to Israel anymore are Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon.

And for some reason Venezuela

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>>30978362
That because of the Arab-Communist pact, which best example of, is how Israel has x10 the UN condemnations of Iran, Iraq, Syria, China and a few other- combined.
Add the fact that Israel abandoned it's socialist roots early on, and eventually sided with the US during the cold war- Zionism was declared an official enemy of communism.

>>30978470
Heh. For those who don't know, the M16 bolt is called a shoshana, which is a kind of flower.

>>30978230

What vest and jumpsuit are they wearing?

>>30960872
>pick up over a wall
It's mainly for fighting guerilla wars in bush and forested areas were the name of the game is ambushing each other.

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>>30962897
Gentle reminder that IDF is capable against anyone including the soviets at the high of their power.
Many IDF wars included the need to decimate air force and air defences manbed by actual soviet personnel (1982). Even the 1948 war had the Arab legion manned with british officers including the army commander.

>>30979608
that's was one air battle in the war with egypt where there was bit of soviet servicemen, i wonder how many of those planes that israel lost in that war were shot down by soviets

>>30963169
hello mr. armican continent

you have no idea how shitty it is to be german right now

>>30962554
>So why don't they, Pakistan is muslim nuclear Power but for some reason they don't turn tel aviv in to glass.
>What are Israeli nukes

>>30967655
All of this is true but the lack of credible political leadership, a new chief of stuff that came from the air force and was over relaying on the air doctrine to minimize casualties, a new minister of defense - a labor union leader with no military background and an inept prime minister that has found himself holding the position because Sharon went into a sadden coma.
Do you think that the war would be run in the same way if Ariel Sharon was running it?
The whole war was waged with air force and small special ops teams without clear military goals. Taking a village to killing or abduct some goat fucker and retreating instead of holding it. Taking casualties again to take the same village again etc.
The armored divisions were engaged only in the last 60 hours of the war. 3 armored division should have rolled to Beirut like in 1982 from week 2 but they were only engaged in the last 60 hours, taking casualties for no good reason.
IDF is used to 1:10 kill ratio but at this war it was 1:5. It is not the standard that is expected but enough to deter the enemy from initiating cross border attacks in the last 10 years.

>>30979703
officially they don't exist)))

>>30967597
>The unwashed troglodytes in the poor af Asian regions of Russia are representative of the Western and European majority
Mkay

>>30979733
>IDF is used to 1:10 kill ratio

hahaha oh wow

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>>30967739
You're welcome to leave anytime friend.

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>>30979487
No jumpsuit, just usual IDF uniform (pants+belt+tucked in shirt). Pic related.
The vest is Israeli 'Dolphin'.

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>>30979774
>>30979487
Sorry, vest is "Marom- Dophin". Pic related.

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>>30979779
>>30979487
And this is the newer version.

>>30979688
>israel will literally nuke everybody if their existence is threatened
huh really makes you think huh......

>>30979752
And yet everyone knows they exist

one day israel will get a nuclear strike at tel-aviv

>>30979783

Cool thanks anon. All ways like knowing.

>>30979659
The battle resulted in disengagement of Soviet air force from direct air operations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rimon_20
In 1973 war
>On the Golan front, Syrian forces received direct support from Soviet technicians and military personnel. At the start of the war, there were an estimated 2,000 Soviet personnel in Syria, of whom 1,000 were serving in Syrian air defense units. Soviet technicians repaired damaged tanks, SAMs and radar equipment, assembled fighter jets that arrived via the sealift, and drove tanks supplied by the sealift from ports to Damascus. On both the Golan and Sinai fronts, Soviet military personnel retrieved abandoned Israeli military equipment for shipment to Moscow.[317] Soviet advisors were reportedly present in Syrian command posts "at every echelon, from battalion up, including supreme headquarters". Some Soviet military personnel went into battle with the Syrians, and it was estimated that 20 were killed in action and more were wounded. In July 1974, Israeli Defense Minister Shimon Peres informed the Knesset that high-ranking Soviet officers had been killed on the Syrian front during the war. There were strong rumors that a handful were taken prisoner, but this was denied. However, it was noted that certain Soviet Jews were allowed to emigrate just after the war, leading to suspicions of a covert exchange. The Observer wrote that seven Soviets in uniform were taken prisoner after surrendering when the Israelis overran their bunker. The Israelis reportedly took the prisoners to Ramat David Airbase for interrogation, and treated the incident with great secrecy.

In the war of 1982 Israel has prepared and executed a plan to destroy soviet manned air defense systems in Lebanon and again, won.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mole_Cricket_19

My point being that IDF is not some colonial militia capable of fighting with savages only, it can and had successfully handled advanced opponents.

>>30979682
How's that war in Syria going, Ahmed?

>>30979872
if you read the main article of the war of attrition it says they did a similar ambush after that and downed a couple of israeli planes but they didn't want to escalate it too much etc etc but they deployed more aircraft nonetheless

>The Soviets respond by luring Israeli fighter jets into a counter-ambush, downing two,[59] and deploying more aircraft to Egypt. Following the Soviets' direct intervention, known as "Operation Kavkaz",[53] Washington fears an escalation and redoubles efforts toward a peaceful resolution to the conflict.

>Early August, 1970: Despite their losses, the Soviets and Egyptians manage to press the air defenses closer to the canal, shooting down a number of Israeli aircraft. The SAM batteries allow the Egyptians to move in artillery which in turn threatens the Bar Lev Line.

>August 7, 1970: A cease-fire agreement is reached, forbidding either side from changing "the military status quo within zones extending 50 kilometers to the east and west of the cease-fire line." Minutes after the cease-fire, Egypt begins moving SAM batteries into the zone even though the agreement explicitly forbids new military installations.[18] By October there are approximately one-hundred SAM sites in the zone.

>September 28, 1970: President Nasser dies of a heart attack, and is succeeded by Vice President Anwar Sadat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Attrition


oh, no doubt that israel amry is very capable... but with the policy which israel has you really risk to get a rogue nuke at one of your major cities with nobody to directly point at

>>30979872
also for operation mole cricket, it states those missiles were soviet built but not soviet manned

either way if it showed anything it was that f-15 were great in 80ss

>>30979919
The russian version states the opposite including the name of the soviet General Yakshin and quotes his memoirs.
If you read about the operation it was about deployment of electronic warfare and use of decoys and RPV's not F-15 being great or bad.
>>30979906
Rogue nucke launched? What the fuck have I just read?

>>30979682
you forgot to add that those fuckers placed a fuckton of ieds , every fucking 5 meters and only used atm at us really shows how 'strong' they are ahmed , go play that bullshit on someone else
t. soldier who fought there

>>30980835
>soldier who fought there
Please tell cool stories

>>30981335
i was the most autistic out of my g'dud , tbqh most of my service was boring and dumb , i kinda wasted 3 years of my life..

>>30981432
Not your life story zair, about the battle
Nov 99

What’s going on here is that the US and Israel want to exaggerate the power of Hezbollah’s rockets, while completely blacking out what really scares them: the fact that man for man, squad for squad, Hezbollah’s infantry is better than Israel’s.

Upon invading Lebanon, the IDF outnumbered Hezbollah 10 to 1. Unlike Hezbollah, the IDF had modern EWAR systems, satellite uplink, aviation, artillery and tanks. Israelis expected to shrug off suicidal savages with kalashnikovs screaming allah akbar. What they met instead was equipped, trained and motivated army. Hezbollah had prepared well camouflaged strongholds in forests and mountain ridges, minefields and IEDs, fire bags and pre-sighted firing points. Knowing the IDF's advantage in electronic warfare and ELINT, they gave up on electronic means of communication and used wired connection. In addition, they used messengers and signalers on motorcycles and bicycles.
Small mobile groups of fighters armed with obsolete Vampires and Kornets covered the entire depth of front, from the Israeli border and to the farthest point of the invasion. They extensively relied on M4s and M16s, night vision and thermals. Using intelligence assets to pinpoint Israeli infantry penetrations, they proved the equal of Israel’s best fighting units. In some instances, Israeli units were defeated outright, forced into sudden retreats covered by the air force from being overrun. Even toward the end of the war, on August 9, the IDF announced that 15 of its reserve soldiers were killed and 40 wounded in villages of Marjayoun, Khiam and Kila – a stunning casualty rate for a marginal piece of real estate.

The IDF resorted to bombing civilian infrastructure all over Lebanon rather than confronting Hezbollah on the ground. It was an ugly way to make a lost war look like a draw.

And so remind me, how many Israeli ground troops were killed vs Hizballah troops?

>>30961007
>>you now realize that call of duty was 13 years ago
ftfy