Which ACR project do you think had the most promise?

>>30957049
The third one because it's an AR

>>30957049
1st because it actually ended up becoming successful

did colt really submit an M16 with a weird handguard as a new design?

>>30957129
it was a M16 with an oil buffer mechanism

>>30957129
>>30957131
It also used some weird duplex cartridge.

>>30957104
That's not an AUG.

The second.
It had promise but ultimately was just standard

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The ACE looks so goddamn retro sexy

Are we talking in terms of pure lethality or factoring in cost effectiveness and the nitty gritty details of fielding a new rifle?

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>>30957209
>retro sexy

GAU-5/P so simple, so handy, so sexy.

Also Woodland BDUs.

>>30957049
I would go with G11.
While G11 is itself overcomplicated piece of garbage, caseless will happen at some time in near future so having a head start would be desirable.

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>>30957049
AAI-ACR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJCwC2MBrx4

http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Assult%20Rifles/US%20AAI%20%20ACR/AAI%20%20ACR%20Entry.html

It is beautiful.

interchangeable with existing ammo. just fucking perfect.

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Steyr

What the fuck is that gigantic monstrosity on the bottom?

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>>30957049
None. Based base M16 BTFO everyone (after they slapped x4 Elcan on it). But then Army went full retard and continue to ignore optics.

>>30957258
Problem with flechettes is that if they don't tumble, you might as well shoot the guy with the air-gun.

>>30957268
That's the AAI entry. 5.56x45 cartridge with a flechette projectile firing at ~1400m/s. Problems with the platform involved an obscenely loud muzzle blast; that goofy looking bullshit on the front was necessary in order to bring it down from "earpro doesn't actually work" to "still louder than a standard 5.56 round for some reason", but it was seen as necessary and drove up the cost projections. Also required proprietary magazines in order to stop grunts from trying to load standard 5.56 which would probably lead to a kB!.

>>30957049
The Steyr.

>>30957294
Also they are inaccurate as fuck, and hitting a blade of grass will cause them to veer way off course.

>>30957086
>Ar
>promise

Promise at being shit maybe.

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>>30957294
They do in some conditions.

>Steyr ACR
The whole flechette concept seems flawed
>G11
It's like a mechanical watch on the inside
>Colt ACR
As far as I remember, it's just an M16 that fires duplex rounds, so it's probably the best out of them. I don't know why duplex rounds didn't take off.
>AAI
Same issue as Steyr

>>30957104
They ditched the Steyr ACR because the flechettes didn't do much damage to flesh and the sabots were a hazard for troops.

>>30957425
>don't know why duplex rounds didn't take off.
limited range, you have to use normal ammo if you want to shoot long range.

>>30957425
>duplex rounds

You have to carry two different kinds of ammunition, so you're effectively forced to use half a combat load. Which, considering guys are heading outside the wire with six magazines, is a pretty bad idea.

>>30957301

So it was a big, loud, hypersonic dart launcher?

Why not turn that shit into a platform of its own?

>>30957483
Because the dart isn't better than a bullet. It's a sidegrade at best, and that isn't enough to warrant development.

>>30957465

Those guys are almost always engaging beyond 500m so they would rarely pick duplex. One mag out of 8, at best.

>>30957438
How long of a range though?

>>30957517
don't remember, I read about it quite a while ago, but google will probably know the answer

>>30957049
G11

>>30957511
Yeah, but i'm talking a hypothetical non-Trashcanistan combat environment, where you can be expected to engage targets at every distance. Would you really be confident with four duplex mags and four standard mags?

>>30957554

Fuck, I'd go six duplex two standard. Most common combat ranges are within 300 and n-plex ammunition increases hit probability.

>>30957576
There are two problems here:
a)logistics
b)how are you going to convince enemy to come closer after you run out of standard ammo

>>30957611

You advance? If you already put down three mags they must be suppressed to a degree

>>30957425
>It's like a mechanical watch on the inside
True, but they should have at least taken the caseless design from it.
More bullets, less weight.

>>30957648
Caseless seems like a flawed concept. The brass cases absorb a considerable amount of the heat from the gun firing, probably reduces the amount of carbon residue in the chamber. I'd also assume that extracting a dud round would be harder without a metal case and the rounds would be easily damaged by impact.

A lot of armies have experimented with caseless and it's never gone anywhere.

>>30957634
What if your targets disengage? Congrats, you're now stuck with duplex loads in an environment where you may very well be engaged at range again. There's a reason n-plex cartridges haven't gone anywhere.

>>30957258
I never realized it could eat conventional ammo as well. That's actually really fucking nifty.

>>30957673
>A lot of armies have experimented with caseless and it's never gone anywhere.
It's because the tech wasn't there at the time.

The G11 did it and did it well, but it was overly complex due to the insane feeding and firing mechanism, because HK wanted to run on the platform that it was easy to shoot prone.
Had they of stuck with the caseless, it would have been great.

With removing heat from the chamber, a combination of thicker chamber walls and heat pipes would suffice.

The main issue with caseless rounds has always been feeding, traditional magazines just won't work, but figure it out and you can easily have twice the ammo for the same space.

>>30957634
>"hey, guys can you not shoot at us until we get bit closer"
>"hey, why are you retreating beyond our range, that's not fair"

>>30957673
caseless is only limited by material tech, you need material that is:
a)burns in specific temperature
b)waterproof
c)relatively rigid

if you would ask someone 60-70 years ago if you can make plastic pistol they would laugh in your face and rightfully so, because at that time it wasn't even in R&D stage.

>>30957258
So, it was basically the American An-94?

>>30957715
>heat pipes
You mean those things on computer heatsinks? That seems like a very delicate feature to put on a gun.

It seems like it would require drastically thicker chamber walls to get the same effect, simply due to the mass of brass your gun is ejecting.

>>30957308
>he fell for the AR is bad meme

>>30957715
> removing heat from the chamber, a combination of thicker chamber walls and heat pipes would suffice
just make chamber out of heat resistant material, or better yet have few chambers to cycle through Dardick style.

>>30957678
>>30957720

How can they possibly hit you from that far out to the point that you are utterly ineffective but also unable to close in? What weapon are they using, mortars? The discrepancy in performancy is not like a shotgun in a videogame turning shot into confetti after a few yards

>>30957294
flechettes biggest problem with going through brush is their small size and light weight. By all means they are superior to bullets in the aerodynamics department. A slight twist on the fins allows them to self stabilize pretty well, and if they are made from tungsten instead of steel they are heavy enough to defeat conventional issues that plagued flechettes.

Steyr made a tungsten firing flechettes, and AAI only used steel because of cost issues involved in the competition.

As for the lack of tumbling, most "modern" designs were made to buckle upon entry into a person, turning into something akin to a meat boomerang, which would cause significant damage, just not the traditional cavitation

On a slightly unrelated note, whatever happened to the XM8?

>>30957960

Memed to death in 2004

>>30957960
it got adopted by Malaysian special forces

>>30957239
>ywn never bomb Serbia with her

>>30957049
G11 because it was only dropped from already prepared production because of taking care of commie shit.

>>30957960
It swam away.

>>30958127
more like check ID's with her. She's SecFo

>>30957049
ur mum