Who would win between 50 super hornets and 2 Type 45s?

Aren't Super Hornets like 20 years old lmao? Type 45s easily.

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>>30938537
Without Growlers in support, the F/A-18E/F will have a very difficult time against a modern naval air defense system.

>>30938537
Scenario?

The Type 45's have to repel 50 super hornets?
The Type 45's are fucked. They couldn't track and fire on that many targets at once, and the Super Hornets can start letting missiles off the rack miles out.

The Super Hornets would take moderate losses however.

>>30938537
1. None of us know enough about the ECM and ECCM on each platform.

2. Type 45's longest-ranged AA missile has a max range about equal to a Harpoon launched at sea level

3. SAMPSON radar reaches 400km, but is mast-mounted: thus T45 cannot detect sea skimmers in the outer parts of its radar range without support from pickets or AEW

4. 50 Super bugs can dump 100-200 Harpoons or LRASMs in a go depending on how far they have to fly to get there

5. At least 1 Bug must actively emit in order to provide a target fix before launch, unless AEW or another sensor is in the area.


Conclusion: a massed AShM strike from 50 super bugs would be able to arrive and launch weapons unmolested. The T45s may have as little warning as a single F-18E radar scanning them 120km away. These weapons can number up to 50 to 100 per target. Not all of the missiles will come from the direction of the radar emission. The Bugs bug off, and now the "game" is between the T45s and the incoming missiles. Here it comes down to radar horizons, AA missile capabilities, and ECM/ECCM. I won't posit an outcome, but that's a shitload of missiles to take down on short notice.

>>30938716

I don't know about that, one of the key selling points about the Type 45 is their ability to track and kill targets in the multiples.

>PAAMS can launch 8 missiles in under 10 seconds with its Sylver Vertical Launching System, and simultaneously guide up to 16 missiles at once.[4] The British PAAMS(S) variant consists of both the SAMPSON and S1850M long range radars and is capable of tracking in excess of 1,000 targets at ranges of up-to 400 km.

Ah, fuck it I tried to start doing the calculations, but both Type 45s would run out of missiles by the second wave, assuming that each super hornet carries 2 Harpoons.

>>30938716
>The Type 45's are fucked. They couldn't track and fire on that many targets at once,

1982 called. It wants its computers back.

to quote wikipedia:
>The US Naval War College has suggested that the SAMPSON radar is capable of tracking 1,000 objects the size of a cricket ball travelling at three times the speed of sound

So, only 20+ times as many as you imagine it can.

>>30938885
>but both Type 45s would run out of missiles
I guess we have our answer then

>>30938907
>tracking

What does that do? These are missiles, it is not like looking at someone whilst they have a piss so they get nervous and stop. What does tracking the missile do to stop it destroying the vessel?

>>30938716
>The Super Hornets would take moderate losses however.
They won't take any assuming they launch at max range

>>30938537
Assuming the F-18s are carrying harpoons, then the Type 45's are screwed as the hornets outrange the SAM systems of the destroyers.

>>30938925

You said it "couldn't track that many"

the reality is, SAMSON can track the aircraft, every missile and still not have even got to half its capacity.

>>30938960
I am not him. He said "track and fire". What exactly are they firing?

>>30938916
Just looked it up, 48 Aster 30&15 versus 50 incoming.

But then you have to figure in pKs of the interceptors and failure rates of the incoming, plus the other defensive systems like decoys, ECM, Phalanx, and 4.5". And the timeframe in which this must happen.

The thread seems to be placing this into a "perfect" scenario for the Hornets. That they all know the location of the ships at the start, that they all have the endurance to be perpetually flying around until they can locate the ships and then have time to organise and synchronise without running out of fuel or having to attack in waves rather than this "mass alpha perfect strike" that keeps getting brought up.

50 planes launching two ASMs each though, it's just above the maximum amount of missiles between the two ships (96), but the ships also have fucktons of ECM and countermeasures, including two CIWS each. In theory they could carry Sea King AEW too, but good luck having them survive in Hornet ridden skies with no backup.

What matters is how far away the Hornets would need to be to detect the ship (It's RCS reduced afterall, fishing boat size) and the range/endurance to determine how many flights can attack, or how many at once. Complete with re-location between attacks.

If any of them drift into Aster range, the plane is completely fucked. Aster missiles don't screw around.

But ultimately, the scenario I see is either ships sunk if the Hornets are lucky on their locating and attack density, or ship survival but few planes downed if they have to attack in waves or get closer than they'd like. Either way, I don't see all 50 Hornets going down. The ships would be far more eager to bring down the missiles.

Setting 50 modern planes to go against any two ships is a huge fucking task though, for any ship.

>>30938916

Well, if we push the timeline out to a bit further from now, it would look more favorable. Quadpacking CAMM instead of having Aster 15 and making use of the 16 extra strike length VLS space would give the Type 45 a solid load number.

>CAMM: 96
>Aster 30: 40
>x2 = 272

Much better number. Whilst I go heavy on the CAMMs, either way play around with the loadout and you'll still get a decent number between them.

Anyone know the radar horizon of SAMPSON?

>>30938960
>>30939092

Keep in mind SAMPSON is also partnered with a S1850M.

>>30938537
Superbugs.

2 x Type 45 = 96 VLS cells.

Doesn't carry ESSMs, so we can't go about quad packing them. Fine.

First strike: 25 superbugs with 4 Harpoons each launch from below radar horizon and bug out.

Lets say every Aster missile has a 100% hit rate and destroys 96 missiles.

You still have 4 incoming harpoons for decoys, the 4.5" and CIWS to take care of.

At that point you've depleted your SAMs and you're now hoping for the best with your last lines of defense. At this point, a a pair of superbugs with LGBs can just finish off the ships.

>>30939146
Okay, the radar horizon of both then

>>30939146
>>30939159
http://members.home.nl/7seas/radcalc.htm

For the hell of it, assume it's 50m into the air.

Radar horizon at that point is roughly 30km.

>>30938537
2 type 45s? boats btfo, not even a contest

>>30939220
>Radar horizon at that point is roughly 30km.
2 minutes of engagement time then. Assuming 'Poons

>2 state of the art destroyers built specifically for AA vs aircraft, i.e. the things the boats were designed to kill
>/k/ armchair generals prove that AA boats will lose by counting number of missiles each side can launch

>>30939312
It's almost like a saturation attack is real.

>>30939312
It doesn't matter what they are designed to do really. The odds are extremely skewed in the favor of the aircrafts, i mean 50 super hornets to take out two boats? Especially when unsupported and the aircraft has no other target than these two boats.

>>30939312

No, you are right. Missile counting is a very lazy way of doing this, but we don't really have much access to the ECM and countermeasures capabilities, so we're kinda stuck.

The scenario is retarded anyway, the Type 45s due to their numbers would be stuck at the hip to a CBG or a task group with plenty of missiles to spare.

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>>30938537
FAMAS

>>30939312
You do realise that 50 strike fighters is a fucking lot?

>>30939312

Bear in mind that this type of scenario is highly unlikely.

Having said that, you refuted fuck all with your post.

>>30939422
refuted exactly as much as your post proved.

Even a fucking P-47 could knock out both Type 45s when they get their daily dose of power failures, kek

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/12128889/Royal-Navys-warships-face-major-engine-refit-amid-reliability-concerns.html

New scenario:
One carrier's worth of Hornets against a standard Chinese surface action group.

I'll spoil it for you: the carrier runs out of munitions and goes home.

>>30939594

The real irony is that it is an American designed and built part that has been causes the issues.

Though the reliability issue is overstated, the system only becomes temperamental under certain circumstances.

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>>30939614 (you)

>>30939639
Stay mad burger, CMANO proves it

>>30939614
>8000 or so harpoons made
>carrier can carry a multiple millions of pounds of ordinance
>"runs out of ammo"

Lel

LRASM :^)

>>30939690
Yes. That's exactly what happens. The scenerio stands.

>>30939657
All that scenario proved is that the Chinese group would be completely out of missiles and that the person running it has no idea how carrier operations work.

>>30939712
Weird, i oddly remember the chinese SAG being blown the fuck out by growlers.

yes excuse me but can you simsoftfags please get out real men are talking ok.

>>30939750
For a "real man" you sure talk like a valley bottom bitch.

>>30939758
XD you can't just talk to me like that ok my dude lmao.

>>30939750
>50 hornets vs 2 type 45s

But anon, this is a simsoft thread

The Hornets, two Type 45's simply do not have the magazine depth to intercept up to 200 AShM at once.

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>>30939712
>>30939657
>>30939614
Those were good threads.

>>30940166
let alone intercept them in the 2 minutes it takes a Harpoon to cross the ~30km space between the radar horizon and the target

>>30938537
As a surface Sailor, I will tel you that ANY 50 jets flying directly at us is time to start sending emails home and saying prayers. What a stupid fucking thread.

They would be sunk fairly quickly. Modern warships would have issues fending off attack by a pair of fighter jets, nevermind 2 squadrons worth.

Reminder that the same people who think a pair of jets could sink destroyers will claim that CSG is invincible because of its air defenses.