Backup /thg/

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>>30927876

>The U.S. State Department has approved the potential sale of more than 130 Abrams battle tanks, 20 armored recovery vehicles and other equipment, worth about $1.15 billion, to Saudi Arabia, the Pentagon said on Tuesday.

>The approval for land force equipment comes at a time when Saudi Arabia is leading a military coalition in support of Yemeni forces loyal to the exiled government of President Abd-Rabbu Mansour Hadi who are trying to oust Iran-allied Houthi forces from the capital, Sanaa. The coalition's air strikes have come under criticism from rights groups for the deaths of civilians.

>The U.S. Defense Security Cooperation Agency, which oversees foreign arms sales, said that General Dynamics will be the principal contractor for the sale, adding it would contribute to U.S. national security by improving the security of a regional partner.

>"This sale will increase the Royal Saudi Land Force’s (RSLF) interoperability with U.S. forces and conveys U.S. commitment to Saudi Arabia's security and armed forces modernization," the agency said in a notice to lawmakers posted on its website.

>Lawmakers have 30 days to block the sale, although such action is rare.

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>>30927888

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>>30927894

>>30927892
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/2016/08/09/saudi-arabia-requests-115-billion-abrams-tanks-hercules-vehicles/88452520/

>The kingdom’s request includes up to 153 M1A1/A2 tanks for conversion to 133 M1A2S Saudi Abrams-configured main battle tanks, along with 20 replacements for vehicles damaged in battle.
>The Saudi Arabian government also wants 20 Hercules ARVs.

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>>30927919

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>>30927928

>>30927894
Three Abrams would be too much weight....

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>>30927947

>>30927892
I hope we sold them faulty equipment. It's just going to get blown up by the Houthis anyways.

>>30927966
Three of any Western MBT would be too much for that transport.

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Nicaragua bought some T-72 White Eagles, note the additional turret armor, tall commanders cupola and tower for a commanders thermal sight.

>>30927876
Ah, they left the lens cap on!

>>30931402
I take it the white smoke in the exhaust wasn't a good thing.

I remember watching a modern marvels episode about the abrams tank and it said things like
>"the abrams tank could run on wine if it needed to"
And
>"the abrams tank is made out of depleted uranium Armor"
Is any of that true ?

>>30931752
The alcohol content in wine is probably not high enough to run the engine.

>>30931902
Are they gas turbine engines?
Those things are notoriously able to take pretty much anything combustible as fuel.

The Prez of Mexico was gifted a Chrysler Turbine Car back when those came out in the 1960s, and was said to have (successfully) tried running it on tequila.

But yes, wine's got too little alcohol, for sure.

>>30931402
Tank biathlons need to be a thing here.

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Polish Leopard 2 oper8ing with an English Chally 2

>>30931752
turbines can typically run off any flammable liquid so vodka, bourbon etc though youd get shithouse performance.
And yes it does have depleted uranium inserts in the armour and no it doesnt poison the crew

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army game Sensha-dou individual race result
China strong

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>>30929259
hello, i am the OP of that thread
any one interesting about the shitty weld in this tank?

i will dump some more pic about this tank
starting with a shitty weld

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>>30932367
TC thermal sight

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>>30932373
engine

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>>30932333
>Zimbabwe.
Jeez. The other teams could have taken lunch breaks and still have gotten better times.

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>>30932383
commanders cupola
as anon said the cupola is taller than previous T-72 or any Soviet MBT
it also lack the commander main sight TKN-3M
and a new RWS is mount in the cupola
kinda a weird design

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>>30931402
>Not an olympic sport

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>>30932415
turret

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>>30932425
APU unit
don't know why you need APU on a T-72B
i think the V-84MS 840 hp is good enough

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>>30932445
emty engine compartment

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>>30932457
secondary main gun sight
this is the 1A40-1 or 1A40-4
the PN-72U Sosna-U is the main sight

>>30932445
A T-72 needs something to generate enough electricity for those fancy modern electronics.

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>>30932479
assembly line
>>30932486
i think you are right since the T-72B3 and T-90A have a more powerful 1000hp engine

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>>30932498
TC thermal sight

Some industry news:

>BMC, Rheinmetall and Etika Strategi form a joint venture for armored vehicles development.

Armoured Vehicles manufacturers from Turkey, Germany and Malaysia to establish partnership to expand their markets. BMC, Rheinmetall AG and the Malaysian company Etika Strategi announced their intention to form a Turkey-based joint venture with a view to cooperation in armored vehicles solutions. This joint venture will mainly focus on wheeled and tracked armored vehicles, the companies said. “This will be a joining of forces aiming at the Turkish, Gulf, Malaysian and other Asian markets, with quite a long-term vision,” an industry source in Turkey said.

The source also said that the deal could mean Rheinmetall may partner with BMC in Turkey’s multibillion-dollar contract for the production of hundreds of next-generation main battle tanks the Altay.

BMC is one of the bidders for the serial production of 1,000 Altay tanks with an initial batch of 250. The Altay was developed by Otokar another Turkish company, a competitor of BMC. Otokar build four Altay prototypes under a $500 million program and they are now undergoing tests.

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>>30932508
rear view

>>30932498
The engine doesn't make electricity itself, what kind of alternator is mounted in a T-72/T-90?

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>>30932512
TC sight armored shell
they look thin compare to soviet era sight
>>30932514
>what kind of alternator is mounted in a T-72/T-90?
IDK haven't found any sauce for that

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>>30932543
TC cupola without the extension tube

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>>30932550
turret assembly line

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>>30932563
TC station
note the joystick the TC use to control the thermal sight

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>>30932578
PN-72U Sosna-U

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>>30932592
rear view
not the reverse camera
too bad this tank only have one reverse gear

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>>30932610
data sheet

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>>30932617
PKP-72 thermal sight for TC

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>>30932626
forward camera for driver

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>>30932636
last pic
good night lad

>>30932425
>>30932550
The extension for the TC cupola serves what purpose?

>>30932641
Thanks for the dump, good stuff.

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>>30932677
vk dot com slash panzerblog
i left out some pic, you can find the rest in this link

>>30932645
i think they need reinforce the cupola for the new RWS

>>30932641
that some huge ass ballistic computer
anyone have pic of NATO counterpart?

>>30932641
Nice dump.
And damn those welds looked atrocious.

>>30933605
Might not be just the ballistic one.
On the Leclerc, there are twenty different calculators for about everything. Takes a lot of room. And power.

>>30932445
Actually T-72 used in TB has an 1130 bhp engine and automatic gearbox

>>30934322
>Takes a lot of room
how much exactly?

>>30934860
Most are in the turret well. Some in the driver's station.
They only added the AC to keep all that shit cooled down, the crew welfare was an afterthought.

>>30934942
do you need to do any kind of maintenance for them

>>30933340
>close combat weapons carrier
With a fucking TOW

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>>30935261

>>30935027
No, the tank will happily report any problem that arises. Anything above a simple switch off/switch on or fuse check is for the maintenance teams. They usually replace the faulty calculator.

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Apparently the Americans are going to participate in the Armed Forces Day parade in Warsaw on the 15th.

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>>30935351

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>>30935363

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>>30935285

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSv7NbcxgQA

Naval landing vehicle race in Army Game 2016

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http://youtu.be/jSGwW5zfGTo
http://youtu.be/9LoSm3ynYQ0

McMaster talking about the US Army's modernization plans and Mobile Protected Firepower.

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IS-2 a best.

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>post yfw germans were so inspired and shocked by soviet tank design that they used the soviet ww2 era light tank design on their Spähpanzer

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>soviets
>making beautiful, ideal and aesthetic tanks since the 30s

wew lad

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>be "sowjets"
>mount a 152 on a tank meanwhile the whole world experimented with 140mm guns

You can't make this shit up.

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>be german
>apparently supposed to be master race
>make 1,350 tiger and 6k panther tanks
>still somehow manage to lose to the soviet union who made like 4k IS-2 tops

EEEYYYY LMMAOOO

>>30937774
Keep the shitty bait out of /thg/.

>>30937774
Nazi tanks a shit. There's more to a tank than the gun and thickness of the frontal plate.

>>30937774
nvm the ISs, the 50 thousand T34s on the other hand...

>>30932445
but sergi where is ERA?

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>>30937863
>Be IS-2 of the 1944 modification
>have upper plate be 180mm in los thickness
>have UFP be 100% immune to 88s from tiger 2s

say it with me out loud everyone: eeeeeeeEEEEEYYYYYYYYY llllllllllllll-mmmMMMMMAAAAAAOOOOOOOOOOOOO :^)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

>>30937883
>be t34 at kursk
>still manage to cuck tigers by flanking them
>post yfw supposed "aryans" couldn't even defeat t34s at range but let them flank you and send your turret flying 30 meters into the air with their ap shells which had a shit load of HE filler

YOU LITERALLY CAN'T MAKE THIS SHIT UP SENPAI

>>30937918
Would you kindly take this out of /thg/?

Lockheed and Elbit have teamed up for the Challenger 2 LEP selection.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/land/2016/08/10/lockheed-elbit-team-joins-british-tank-upgrade-competition/88518756/

>>30932445
>APU unit
don't know why you need APU on a T-72B
i think the V-84MS 840 hp is good enough

So you're not having to run an 840 HP engine when a sub 100 HP APU will do the job, when stationary.

>>30937863
Most German WW2 era tanks were not at all as good as some would have you believe.

The PzKfwIII and IV, and related hulls are about the best they had, and those were basically obsolete by mid '42. The larger. later vehicles had neat features but were shackled with terrible build quality, ridiculously over-complex and over-stressed drivetrains, primitive turret traverse mechanisms and far too much emphasis on tank VS tank capability, without realizing that "sometimes a tank has to act as artillery"..

>>30937918
Sir, im going to have to ask you to leave.

We dont like your bellicose kind around here.

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>>30937918
>Is2 obr 1944

>strongest upper glacis plate of all tanks in ww2

>is ok comrades lets keep the gun mask at about a 110m RHA so we can lose tanks front aspect to 75mm L48s

>))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

>>30938390
As I asked the other anon, does the alternator on that engine put out enough electricity for the modern electronics on it's own?

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So is an M256 just a license produced Rheinmetall L44 or is it like the M68 in which the only thing it has in common are the barrels and ammunition?

>>30938971
An M256 is a modified L/44 (mostly the recoil mechanism) whereas the L7 and M68 were different guns that shared the same barrel.

The modifications to the M256 are significant enough that it is not interchangeable with the L/44. This is a major reason the US never adopted the L/55.

>>30927843
Thanks for the thread frenchfag.

As a general question any news on the Australian APC and IFV competitions?

>>30939179

http://www.defence.gov.au/dmo/equippingdefence/land400

>>30939179
They've narrowed it down to the Patria and Boxer

>>30937918
>still manage to cuck tigers by flanking them
more like the T-34 have to rush toward German line so their 76mm gun can penetrate German tank

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Finally somewhere to ask this

Why do western tanks typically have large caliber HMGs as secondary weapons over a grenade launcher or a minigun such as the M134?

There must be a good list of reasons why they aren't used but could someone explain or point me in the general area to read up on the topic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9WzhjI03nQ
Sprut-SD and BMD-4M

>>30942319
40mm grenade launcher or Minigun don't have the same fire power as a .50 machine gun

40-mm don't have enough ammo and minigun run out of ammo too fast

>>30942319
Burger infantry here. Very vague rundown real quick:

The .50's are there to force crews to button up and to engage lighter vehicles and infantry.

You can engage both infantry and light armored vehicles with a HMG.

You can only sucessfully engage infantry with a medium machinegun.

Mini-guns arent actually verry common on ground vehicles, thats a meme started by operators. Too much ammo to carry, plus they are a maintenance nightmare.

Aircraft are more likley to have a minigun cuz its easier to keep them clean on a bird, but even so ammo is an issue and they still manage to be a maintenance and repair clusterfuck. But wingers have all the time in the world to relax in an airconditioned hangar and work on the minigun for 5 to 6 hours a day.

Ground forces dont have that luxury.


Also MK19 grenade machineguns fire 40mm, which takes up a fuckload of space, and are also irritating as fuck to maintain.

>>30942319
Most tanks secondary weapon is a 7.62 machine gun.

12.7mm and 14.5mm are common roof guns because they have the punch to kill light obstacles and the reach to deal with low flying aircraft (in premise).

Miniguns are not good vehicle weapons unless you have narrow windows of time like when aircraft are part of the equation, they simply fire too fast and waste ammunition.

Grenade launchers just seem unpopular, I assume it has to do with range.

>>30942578
You ever seen how much space boxes of 40mm take up?

We had 1 MRAP with a mk19 and 600 rounds of ammo.

There was juuuuuust enough room left in the truck for the driver, gunner, and VC.

And its an ied environment and you are in a light vehicle literally filled with explosives.

40mm ammo is heavy as fuck, takes up a bunch of space, and increases risk of sympathetic detonation if hit.

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>>30942578
>Grenade launchers just seem unpopular, I assume it has to do with range.
actually automatic GL have greater range than .50 cal machine gun because their ammo carry more explosive

it is much easier to engage area target at 1000m with a automatic GL than a .50 machine gun


pic related, Russia BMP-2 with Berezhok turret
note the 30mm grenade launcher on the roof

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>>30942525
>>30942540
>>30942578

I had my assumptions and they turned out to be true.

Ma Deuces really just can't be killed off, I never really understood that .50s packed that much of a punch and can be that versatile for other roles.

Also knew LMGs were more common than HMGs cause modern tanks are rolling death machines and they can never have enough Dakka
Thank guys

>>30944369
that is a fast tank

>>30934463
What is this MBT-70?

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Close enough!

>>30945460
W... what's happening there. And why it is happening.

>>30945719
Nothing, just the release of SB 4.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4YBxGDSg5o

>>30945728
Nice. And this Leclerc TC looks like that by sheer coincidence, doesn't he ? Please ?

>>30944661
M1A2.

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>>30945746
Yup, it's just the standard soviet tanker.
If you like US standard tanker :

>>30932367

And just like the in the last thread, the question comes up: do you suffer from autism?

I doubt you can evaluate a weld by looking at it on a photo.

>>30945797
Can't a professionnal tell ?

>>30945779
Oh all right, fine.

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>>30945797
i am here
in that thread i was talking about Russia quality control
because that weld is undoubtedly worse than the same weld on another tank in the same batch

nothing about how strong the weld , that was other anon argument

>>30932479
Are those screws already rusty ?
>>30932415
Also wonder why it is higher.

>>30945806
Sooner or later I will mod your face in an Arma mod.
You will be part of 4chan vidya missions whether you like it or not.

Where did the myth that the US signed the cluster munitions ban come from? I keep seeing it because of the articles about Russia's use of thermobarics in Ukraine.

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http://vid1.ria.ru/ig/sip/uvz21/desktop-ru/-KOjgxDtw-e0Ep3eEuL3.mp4
http://vid1.ria.ru/ig/sip/uvz21/desktop-ru/-KN2IW6kr_rqhKN4duc-.jpg
Video footage and a high res pic from the testing of the T-90MS in Kuwait
>>30947336
>Are those screws already rusty ?
no

>>30932333
Do you have a stream for the next one?

>>30948576
the final match will be held in 13th of august
you can find stream in this facebook page

facebook /tvzvezda/

or Russian MOD yewtube channel

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Kuwait is gonna be the first country to have both M1A2 and T-90 in its armor fleet

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>>30948755
that cool
but i have my hype for Algeria and Morocco
T-90SA in one side
M1A2SA in the other

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Challenger 2 upgrade program suddenly took a drastic turn.

Rheinmetall has entered the fold.

http://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/en/rheinmetall_defence/public_relations/news/latest_news/aktuellesdetailansicht_1_10880.php

Qinetic was already looking at a German APS (MUSS) for the Challenger. Now Rheinmetall have brought up their intend for the vehicle itself if they're selected.

"Our team has put together an innovative proposal to solve not only the obsolescence issues of the Challenger 2 but to also cost effectively enhance the capabilities of the MBT. One example of this is that our solution can integrate either the existing 120mm L30 rifled gun or our proven 120mm L55 smooth bore system that is in service with the German Army and can fire the latest generation kinetic energy rounds and our unique 120mm air-burst ammunition. When combined with the new optronics, situational awareness and fire control systems our solution will allow the Challenger 2 to fight, survive and win on the battlefields of today and tomorrow."

Get. Fucking. Hype.

>>30929259

All these shitty weldings

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>>30931402

I thought that the T-72 reverse speed was limited to 4,18 km/h.

>>30934419
>and automatic gearbox

Semi-automatic, still no torque converter

>>30936897

2016 pics of the M8 Buford ?

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>>30945460

>>30949578
BAE has been wheeling it around to spark discussion on the MPF.

That vehicle is different from the one at AUSA last year, it has the old steel tracks and some things on its roof I don't recognize.

>>30950463
>BAE has been wheeling it around to spark discussion on the MPF.
Other way around. They've been wheeling it around BECAUSE of the discussion about the MPF.

>>30952487
>“The intent of what we have out here is a conversation starter,” said Deepak Bazaz, BAE Systems’ director of New and Amphibious Vehicles, standing by his company’s M8 Armored Gun System.

http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2015/10/russia-mind-bae-revives-light-tank-90s/122731/

>>30953430
Let me put it this way- if the MPF program WASN'T a thing, would they be waving it around? Because the program exists, they're advertising the vehicle that they have which could fit it. Does that make sense?

>>30953466
BAE waved the M8 around to help MPF become a thing, it wasn't even a funded program until this year.

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>>30947395
If anyone is curious, this is the US's stance on cluster weapons.

http://archive.defense.gov/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=12049
>Cluster munitions are legitimate weapons with clear military utility in combat. They provide distinct advantages against a range of targets, where their use reduces risks to U.S. forces and can save U.S. lives. These weapons can also reduce unintended harm to civilians during combat, by producing less collateral damage to civilians and civilian infrastructure than unitary weapons. Because future adversaries will likely use civilian shields for military targets – for example by locating a military target on the roof of an occupied building – use of unitary weapons could result in more civilian casualties and damage than cluster munitions. Blanket elimination of cluster munitions is therefore unacceptable due not only to negative military consequences but also due to potential negative consequences for civilians.

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>>30949082
Germans once again fixing Britain's mess of a weapon system

>>30953525
The MPF was not funded, but the desire for it had been stated for quite a while before it. The only reason they waved it around was advertising, not raising awareness on the MPF program.

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http://breakingdefense.com/2016/08/big-guns-for-light-infantry-mobile-protected-firepower/

>The MPF must be light and nimble enough to accompany foot troops where the massive M1 Abrams cannot go: into dense jungle and narrow streets, up mountains and over rickety Third World bridges. It must also carry enough armor to shrug off .50 caliber machinegun fire and some heavier weapons. It must pack enough firepower to take out anything from a concrete bunker to a heavy tank.

>So the Army also wants the infantry to have its own big guns: one company of 14 MPF vehicles per brigades. The MPF will deal with opposition that might otherwise bog down large numbers of light infantry, like a bunker, Wesley said, or an older model tank like the T-55. “What we wouldn’t expect is that infantry brigade is going to fight an entire brigade of armored vehicles,” Wesley went on.

>“What we don’t want is an Abrams; we already have an Abrams,” said Col. Will Nuckols, who works for Wesley as Fort Benning’s director of mounted (i.e. vehicle) requirements. “It’s going to be lighter, more strategically mobile, and more tactically mobile than the Abrams — with similar firepower and protection that is suitable to the formation it is supporting.”

>Protection against how great a threat? That’s to be determined, based on what industry can deliver at a price the Army can afford. “It will be greater than heavy machinegun, I can tell you that,” Nuckols said. “Protection is a very high priority for the Chief of Staff of the Army.”

>Size and transportability are also up in the air. “Will it necessarily be air-droppable? That’s yet to be determined,” Nuckols said.

Inb4 a BAE offers a CV90-120 when the US Army says it doesn't need to be air dropped.

>>30953786
>It must pack enough firepower to take out anything from a concrete bunker to a heavy tank.
This screams "120mm gun" to me.

>one company of 14 MPF vehicles per brigades.
A single company per brigade? That seems VERY little to me. That'd be a platoon per battalion, IF they parcel them out. I'd feel much more comfortable with a battalion per brigade, but I guess that's just too much armor for an IBCT.

>>30953816
They seem pretty adamant about not wanting to make IBCT's just a lighter version of ABCT's.

>>30953786
>>30953816
>>30953842
All I want to see is one airborne assault that includes infantry and armor.

Just one.

If we'd funded the M8 AGS, Obama could surprise sex Raqqa on the last day of his administration.

>>30953842
Which is respectable.

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Thailand have recently upgraded its M60 tanks

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>>30953898

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>>30955468
Inside the tank

>>30955475
>>30955468
Fuck me. That's a lot of wasted space. Its comfy sure, but this makes the whole thing like a barn on the outside.
>>30953879
>If we'd funded the M8 AGS, Obama could surprise sex Raqqa on the last day of his administration.
Doesn't have the armor needed to survive ATGM hits especially from teh heavy hitter like TOW-2A and Kornet.

>>30955586
Armor isn't necessary for ATGM threats. It makes it a hell of a lot safer, but not necessary at all.

>>30955586
>>30955697
Honestly can any tank really take a modern ATGM hit? Even those vids of Abrams getting hit, sure the crew survived but the blowout rack goes, that's pretty much a mission kill at least right?

>>30955818
Well, yeah. It's no different than a Heat warhead fired from another tank. It would still be hard for an ATGM to penetrate the tank from the front, even for a tandem head ATGM

For every one tank that is destroyed by an ATGM, there gotta be few others thst survived. It's juat that they're not captured in video very frequently. Turkish Sabras survived ATGM attacks as we as few T-90s and T-72Ms in syria

>>30945797
Well yes...?

You can even see its been welded with a MIG/MAG, because there are wire holes and literal wires still in the weld.

There are numerous welding ditches which means it hasn't burned trough.

Splatter everywhere

All in all just caked on top of everything. It's a class A shitty weld, Sure it might "work" if its not holding any real pressure, But surely Russia has to have some quality control

>>30955818
Merkava 4's fared pretty well against Kornets in Lebanon.

>>30955980
at least four were destroyed afaik. also i dunno about american abramses but saudi one that i saw on the wid turned into a bonfire from one kornet

>>30955990
2 Mk.4's destroyed, only 1 of them by a Kornet.

>>30955999
The second verified episode of the Kornet ATGM in combat use occurred during the 2006 Lebanon War, where the missiles, reportedly supplied by Syria, were successfully used by Hezbollah fighters to destroy up to four Israeli Merkava tanks,[18]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9M133_Kornet

>>30955990
Saudi Abrams never meet any korent
but older Fagot ATGM

>>30956005
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ePvNlfrxfw
one of the comments says it's yemen and a saudian abrams

>>30927843
is the Leclerc tank comfortable and good at turning on the road and in general

>>30956011
the launcher in that video is clearly a 9P135M
and the missile could be a 9M113 Konkurs or 9K111 Fagot
not Kornet

>>30956004
You do know that the Israelis used 3 different iterations of the Merkava in 2006, right?

>>30955818
From the front? Yes.

>>30956014
It's rather comfy I'd say, as far as AFVs go at least. Good behavior on the road, though obviously you don't want to make a sudden turn at full speed.

>>30953620

Not so much "a mess" as just that it's been left for far too long before it was due to happen.

And chances are anything done will happen in the UK anyway, so it's unlikely to be the Germans doing it.

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>>30957657

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>>30953816

That was the standard for Swedish infantry brigades for 50 years and sort of worked there.

We used assault guns and tank destroyers for this role and the CV90120-T was supposed to replace the IKV 91s before the defence budget was cut.

pic unrelated

You guys have any info about T24E1?
It's an experimental Chaffee with the same whirlwind engine as the Hellcat.
Supposedly it had potential to reach 60mph but the transmission couldn't handle it.
I'd like to read more about it.
A pdf of Hunnicuts Stuart book would be a great start.

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>>30957862
Postin more AMOS Patria.

Also could someone explain IBCT, battalion, military structure a little better for me?

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Gutentag.
Guess who saw the thing itself.

>>30960048
No way where is this? It's not Bovington is it?

>>30960118
Hell. Fucking. Yes.

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>>30937774

jejejejejejjeejjejejeje

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>>30960132
No fucking way. Was this recent? What event was it?

>>30960192
Bovington, Tankfest 2k16. The Pz. III latewar was there too.

>>30934359
>Scared

>>30942319
What a fucking awesome week
>Rolling over the hill and seeing explosions and tracers flying
Thanks for sharing that I really enjoyed it

>>30960028
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigade_combat_team

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How big was an armored cavalry regiment circa the mid-80s? Was getting rid of them a mistake?

>>30960028
Just so you're aware, I'm starting to write something up, but it's a pretty big topic so it'll take me a while.

>>30960028
>>30960028
>Also could someone explain IBCT, battalion, military structure a little better for me?
Sure thing. This is actually a very interesting area to me.

Currently, the US military is organized in a system of brigade combat teams. Each of these is a self contained unit, capable of doing pretty much anything on its own. A brigade combat team has its own maneuver formations, fire support (artillery), as well as supply, intelligence, and all the other assorted things a military force would need. You could move these around the map and be able to do whatever. The US military currently has three kinds of BCTs- Infantry, Stryker, and Armored (formerly known as Heavy). These are obviously organized differently. The IBCT is a predominantly light infantry force meant for dismounted combat. As such, they don't have much of any heavy equipment, and no armor whatsoever. The SBCT is like the IBCT, except it has heavier vehicles, which allow it to carry more gear. Its focus is still infantry, but with more maneuverability and firepower. However, it's still not very heavy, and lacks tanks entirely. The ABCT is all about tanks and IFVs, in this case Abrams and Bradleys. It's got the biggest guns and heaviest armor, but it does suffer the drawbacks thereof- it has less infantry, requires far more supplies, and is far more restricted by terrain.

To go into more depth, I've got to explain two things. First, fire and maneuver. Quite simply, you need to get into position to actually kill the enemy. However, the enemy obviously doesn't want you to do this, and when you're moving, you're pretty vulnerable. Because of this, you have to ensure fires superiority over the enemy. You've got to pin them in place with your Fire and with their heads down in order to Maneuver on them and kill them. This forms the basis of most military thought.

(Continued)

>>30960869
Most military units the world over are "triangular". This means that there are three different maneuver formations inside of them. Maneuver formations are your combat units which can take and hold ground. They are the units which can do the "maneuver" part of "fire and maneuver". There are generally supporting assets which help them achieve fires superiority in order to allow for the maneuver assets to maneuver. I'll go into greater detail once we go into greater depth. Now, we'll start from the ground up, building up to brigade level. Each unit is controlled by the one above it, and given tasks thereof.

At the lowest level, we have the squad. In the US Army, the rifle squad is made up of two fireteams of 4 men, each capable of being the base of fire or the maneuver element, as well as a squad leader, for a total of 9 men. In terms of tanks or other armored vehicles, this is generally the "section". In a platoon of 4 tanks, there are generally two sections of two tanks each. They watch each other's backs and work as one unified unit.

The next level is the platoon. A platoon is made up multiple different maneuver squads. In an infantry platoon, that'd be three rifle squads. However, it does have some support assets in it, exclusively to provide the "fire" in "fire and maneuver". This generally takes the form of a single "weapons" squad consisting of a medium machineguns, anti-tank weapons, and a mortar in some militaries. Referring to armored vehicles, there are generally platoons of 3 or 4 vehicles. In the case of 4 vehicles, it's generally made up of two sections of two vehicles. In the case of 3 vehicles, they don't have the same level of fire and maneuver capabilities, as you can't get an even split to be the base of fire or the maneuver element. As you can probably tell, I'm somewhat biased against platoons of 3 vehicles.

(Continued)

>>30960882
The next level is the company, and this is where combined arms really starts happening. You are now sufficiently large to where support assets make sense to be organic, as below this you're too small to really fit it in. The combination of these supporting assets is known as combined arms, where different things work together synergistically in order to create effects that they wouldn't have been able to do alone. As before, you generally have three manevuer platoons, but you'll also often have a "weapons" platoon. At this level, you'll generally see mortars as well. Furthermore, this is the level where supply and other supporting assets not related to fighting start to appear. The headquarters element is starting to get larger, as its responsibilities become more vast and varied. Of note here is tank companies. They generally have not much of any supporting assets, as it's all tanks. However, of note is the US practice of creating "company teams" by taking a platoon of tanks and exchanging it for a platoon of mechanized infantry in Bradleys from a mechanized infantry company. This creates a situation wherein both companies are combined arms formations of tanks and infantry. One has two platoons of tanks to one platoon of infantry, thus making it "tank heavy". The reverse, two platoons of mechanized infantry with one platoon of tanks, is known as "mech-heavy".

Battalion level is just a continuation of the same trend. Generally three maneuver companies as well as supporting assets. In an infantry battalion, this generally means a weapons company, consisting of mortars, machineguns, and sometimes ATGMs. Sometimes, the mortars are not included in this formation, but rather attached to a new formation, the Headquarters Company. The number of support assets really ratchets up, as the battalion is both the main maneuver element as well as the basic administrative unit in most militaries. Also commonly included is a reconnaissance platoon.

(Continued)

>>30960897
One level above that is the Brigade level. This is where everything comes together. Three maneuver battalions, as well as generally a reconnaissance battalion, which enables the other battalions to be used at the decisive location. Also at this level we generally get an artillery battalion, engineers, as well as a battalion dedicated towards administrative, supply, and maintenance purposes. We are finally at the completely self-containable level. It has everything it needs. I explained more about that above.

I think that covers just about everything. If you've got any questions, feel free to ask, and I'll respond to the best of my ability.

>>30960869
>>30960882
>>30960897
can somebody cap these all for me and edit them together. I wan to save it fo my maps and diagrams folder but I dont know how to photoshop.

>>30960905
Could you answer >>30960417?

>>30960417
An armored cavalry regiment is essentially the same thing as a brigade combat team, except larger and slightly more capable, in my opinion. The main difference is the aviation squadron (battalion). It gave the ACR organic helicopters, which contributed both to significantly more firepower as well as increased scouting ability. Furthermore, the mortar section organic to each company was very nice. You've also happened to catch someone who has a love affair with formation reconnaissance, so I've got a major soft spot for these. However, we need to face reality. Fact of the matter is, with budget cuts and the resultant cut to force structure, things couldn't stay the same. The US Army had significantly less need of formation reconnaissance simply due to it being so much smaller. That money needs to go elsewhere. It makes sense to take units out of the ACR for both economic and maintenance reasons (you need fewer maintainers and the parts are all sent to one place instead of two).

So to answer your question of it being a mistake, my gut says yes but my head says no. It's just how it had to be.

>>30961134
Thanks for the answer. I've always had a big interest in late Cold War armored warfare and I was thinking similar things but I don't have anywhere near as much knowledge to be able to articulate it as effectively.

>>30927888
back to Africa goes french armor

>>30960917
You don't even need photoshop, you can make a hackjob in Paint. Just take the pictures, put them in different paint documents, and then select the relevant bits and copy and paste them into a new document, dragging them to their correct place. I'd do it myself, if I hadn't written the thing. It's somewhat in poor taste to take screencaps of something with (You) plastered all over it.

>>30932154
qts

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>>30949601
MERCI FRENCHFAG

>>30960917
>>30961330
Will cap these 4u with pedoshop. I'm the one who asked the question in the first place, still going through the amazing answer, thanks anon

>>30949601
MERCI FRENCHFAG

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>>30960917
Lemme pop a cap in yo ass

>>30960869
And thanks anon, this is perfect, great writeup. This is why i hang out in (backup) /thg/

Last question, wth t0nk is in top right >>30960417 ? I kinda recognize sherri hatch to bino-man's left.

>>30953786
isn't this what MGS is for, sbct get 1 platoon per company ,that seems very reasonable for assault gun support.

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>>30962022
>Last question, wth t0nk is in top right

Vismod Sherridan that tries to impersonate T-80.

>>30927843
Was it you or some other french guy that joined Azov?

>>30962022
>Last question, wth t0nk is in top right
See >>30962325, the 11th ACR usually plays OPFOR at NTC.

>>30942674
Were you being engaged that much or was it the good idea fairy rolling through? Were you route clearance? If so that'd doubly retarded to have that much HE on one vehicle.

>>30962129
Correct. The MGS is VERY widespread for what it is, and that's part of the reason why the SBCT is as capable as it is. The issue is that the Stryker MGS wouldn't work for the IBCT. It couldn't handle the terrain the requirement needs. In fact, there isn't much that could.

>>30962325
ahaaaaaa that's right. I was looking at those front tread covers? that's some rooskie shit. Thx anon forgot about these. Looooove me some sheridans

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>>30953786
The vague requirements must be really annoying for industry at some level.

Being light and mobile, STANAG 4 armor and a gun big enough to pop bunkers and T-55's means anything from a Textron 4x4 with a Cockerill 90mm to a CV90-120T.

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>>30963037
Wrong pic, that was one of Canada's new TAPV's.

>>30927843
y dis

>>30963121
ew

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this is a _____ ?

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>>30965307
>>30963121

Yeah she's an ugly killer bitch, sexy in her own way. Not Ratel on the other hand... oh babby that armor gets me hard

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>>30965366
Spare track

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In Seoul took pictures at the War Museum

>>30963037
The one thing they do know is that it has to have a big engine on a little chassis.

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Don't have time to dump right now though

>>30966796
>>30966811
oh oh oh this looks awesome. K-town literally has a museum for everything. Looking forward to pics, esp chink abrams. Also did you try beondaegi or live octopus while you were in town?

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>>30966953
Didn't really have time, pretty much just ran around seeing the sights on a layover

>>30961266
U.A.E., my good Anon.

>>30962022
No idea why you put the scrolling pic in there but thanks for the recap and thanks to the writer, it was very well explained and informative.

>>30962369
Other one.

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Wish I had more time there

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Going to a museum with armor in St. Petersburg next week

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So if you have any weird slav armor picture requests

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That's it from Seoul

is the javelin the only top attack missile with a dive profile?
doesnt that mean that aps can still defeat most top attack munitions they'll encounter even without upper coverage

>>30967656
>So if you have any weird slav armor picture requests
all of them please
but i more interesting in dem T-80

>>30967656
prototypes/rarities

>>30938390
>Most German WW2 era tanks were not at all as good as some would have you believe.
Only just returned to he thread, and I seem to have been misunderstood. That's what I meant- that "muh 88" and "muh tiger 2 glacis" doesn't make them good tanks.

>>30949601
MERCI FRENCHFAG

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>>30927927
>saudi-arabia-requests-115-billion-abrams-tanks

>>30927843
Danke m8

>>30942319
The AMX30 had a 20x139mm coax.
Somehow made the shitty armor a bit more bearable.

The stridsvagn 2000 was supposed to have a 40mm bofors on the turret side.

>>30967646
>Going to a museum with armor in St. Petersburg next week

recovery tanks please

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQGqX5Ndpm4snE0NTjyOJnA/live

WHY IS THE M60 SLEP SO DAMN CUTE HOLY SHIT
https://youtu.be/1wwUTEkRano

>>30968021
kek didn't notice

>>30968823
Abrams was a mistake.
The Pershing lineage endures.

>>30949261
>Cruising speed (at 2,000 rpm):
Couldn't their diesel engines rev higher without causing excessive wear?

>>30949261
he was probably on neutral and gravity did the rest

Rehearsal for the parade in Poland.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrYuW9H1594
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBcln9JQWwY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udxR90KZnrg

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>>30927843

>>30962507
>was it the good idea fairy rolling through

Don't let common sense troll stop her.

>>30969610

The V-92S2F (T-90MS) develops 1130 hp at 2300 RPM thanks to a modified injection system, which allows a higher engine speed.
To prevent damages, the engine is slightly strengthened and is 30 kg heavier than the V-92S2 (T-90A).
But the changes also result in a shorter live time of only 1000 hours compared to 1200 for the V-92S2 (1000 hp at 2000 RPM).

>>30970805

Thanks.

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When?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyZ3v_LQ6UM

>>30972650
It would need a new engine because the one used has been out of production for a long time.

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>>30973253
>>30972650
AGS 120

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>>30973302

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>>30950463
Another picture of that object on the roof over the gun.

>>30967646
Second for T-80. T-72s, T-90 if that's even posseeblay. Awesome K-pics anon, thanks a lot! What brought you to Korea anyways? And Russia? Are you just living the dream of traveling to see t0nk? Also what was that t0nk next to t-62? With the trim vane or whatever that is?

>>30972650
If that thing ever sees service, some crewman has to paint U wot M8? on theirs somewhere

>>30967200
No idea why i put pic there either.

Okay so another question, on t0nks with add-on .50 coax, how does that work? Like isn't there 7.62 coax already? When do you choose one over the other and why? It just looks so goofy, but hey I guess if it works or whatever

>>30974577
>Okay so another question, on t0nks with add-on .50 coax, how does that work? Like isn't there 7.62 coax already? When do you choose one over the other and why? It just looks so goofy, but hey I guess if it works or whatever
The .50 is a larger round, meaning longer range, accuracy, and penetrative capability. This can be useful in urban environments, for something better than a 7.62 machinegun when you can't use your cannon due to various reasons, such as collateral damage, overpressure from firing the gun, or friendlies in the way.

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why dont more tanks have a dozer blade like the PSO version of the leotard? i think it would be great to have on every 3'rd tank or so, just if it becomes useful at some point, if nothing else another inch on the lower glacias

>>30967656
If you can, the commander cupola on all the T-64's, T-72's and T-80's.

Especially if they have the mount for their heavy machine gun.

Also pictures of their ERA side skirts to see if there is any difference.

I also request pictures of prototype tanks

>>30971610
OUR ENEMIES HIDE IN METHUL BAWKSES

Hey, if Merkgunner is here, what is his perspective on this expose of the IDF written by a former officer?
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/commentary/editorial/2016/08/12/hirsch-defensive-shield-idf-lebanon-israel/88609622/

>>30974577
Just an extended layover on the way to seeing the GF in Kazakhstan, taking her to St. Petersburg for a few days and stopping in Japan for a few on the way home.
I'm honestly not sure, need to learn more about armor.

>>30975860
I'll give it a shot

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>>30977336
>tfw no qt Kazakh gf to visit Russian armor museum and explore Tokyo streets with.

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>>30977336
Also sorry I don't recognize your trip, I'm ....relatively new to /thg/. Where are you from? What are you doing so you have gf from Kazakhstan, pop into Korea, St.Pete, Tokyo, if you don't mind me asking

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>>30978029
She's just going to St Petersburg to much of a pain for her to get a visa.

>>30978050
Nebraska haha, idk save my money for overseas travel.

Look up Astana it's such a bizarre city

Pic from last year

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>>30978139
Oh well, still
>tfw

Cool pic, Astana got's some really cool architecture, I like their coat of arms too.

Did you save your money for mail order Kazakh bride too? =P

Postin armor because banter

>>30972650
>reading through Tom Clancy's Armored Cav
>tfw that optimism about the upcoming (at the time) M8 and RAH-66
>Comanche is as ded as Clancy is now
The M8 is finally going to be a thing now though, r-right?

>>30978973
>tfw the Commanche and the M8 are awesome and dead as fuck.
>tfw I was looking forwards to them so much.

Man, the Commanche would've been a huge deal. Just think of its applications as an anti-drone and anti-helicopter weapon, to say nothing of normal scout and attack helicopter business.

>>30933340
>>30933340
>>30933340
That fucking Utility variant...

As a former 25U... This makes me moist

File: IMIM413_0001.jpg~original.jpg (117KB, 608x800px) Image search: [Google]

117KB, 608x800px

Bump

>>30981108
Is that an ad from the 90's?

>>30977336
say Hi to Your Olgino overseer

>>30934465
holy hell what is this

>>30981879
Mine rollers on a M60 hull.

File: IMIM413.jpg~original.jpg (76KB, 602x800px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 602x800px

>>30981398

Likely

File: South-African Tank Technology Demonstrator.jpg (120KB, 800x554px) Image search: [Google]

120KB, 800x554px

>>30983182

Looks like an Olifant turret mounted on a Rooikat chassis.

I just completed my Tank Crew Commander course. Ask me literally anything.

File: 53944_900.jpg (210KB, 1024x550px) Image search: [Google]

210KB, 1024x550px

>>30983200
I think that is essentially what it was, larger pic >>30983205

>>30983229

The Rooikat has a different hull.

>image limit reached
fuck, im too late for this one.

>>30978643
What's up with that protrusion on it's upper glacis?

>>30983220
Is that the one where you have to memorise the silhouettes of NATO and Russian vehicles?

>>30984589
Yes

>>30984620
Neato, how did you score? I spend a lot of my freetime wanking over pictures of tanks so I reckon Id do fairly well in it.

>>30984627
100%

Then, you'd need to be able to properly command a tank in the offensive and defensive missions. So, you'd have about 1% of the training underneath your belt.

>>30984651
Got any cool pics or tanks or guns you can post here?

New thread when?