Let's talk Tac-Med

>>30780412
Let's talk about a very subjective area of "medicine" that seems to have so many experts and private schools and programs with really just a bunch of fluff and no actual data or research to back it up.

Tactical medicine is not about medicine but about tactics and will vary depending on your resources.

It's like talking about firefighter medicine, we don't talk about people suffering from the host of potential injuries involved in being trapped in a burning building as firefighter-med. It's merely fire ground tactics to mitigate and stabilize a hazard before traditional EMS services can be engaged.

Teaching a cop to use a tourniquet is first aid.... not this "tac-med"

>>30780412
FYI. Having just done a multi agency multi day school shooter drill I can add some stuff later when I am at a computer to type. Just know that in the real world in a real situation it's scene stabilization, triage, system management and resource managment.

Actual medicine is limited to basic first aid and routine ATLS/PHTLS. Getting SWAT involved doesn't change how you run a "sick" trauma patient as far as medicine is concerned. So ultimately this is not /k/ related and you should have just posted in the EMS thread the mods have allowed to kick around as now you are just being obnoxuous.

I'm talking tactics IE ditch bag before or after you make entry or ammo should I pick lighter round cuz for medics ounces equal pounds

Or should I cut back on a rifle all together and stick to side arm

>>30780771
Are you 14 years old?

>>30780935
No why you ask I'm asking legitimate questions

>>30780954
Well when my brother joined the special operations he brought my uncles lever action because he was better with it than an m15. I'd say bring whatever you want and carry whatever gear you want, it's not like agency policies, procedures, medical oversight, comittees, government purchasing, interoperability and training have anything to do with it. Infact I also work as a firefighter and I bring my own hose to work as I like the way mine feels better.

>>30781000
With MY experience if you are a medic attached to swat you can choice it has nothing to do with agency protocals other than weapon and caliber the people I was working with you can chose to stick with their or your glock as long as it's chambered in 40. Or you can run ar15 in 5.56 or UMP in 40.

You also choose how your kit is set up and how or what bag lvl you want

>>30781035
Wow... you are like an expert. Sorry I even thought I had something to contribute to this thread. I am in the presense of a fucking leet operator

>>30781123
You weren't contributing you were being a sarcastic ass

Don't know what's funnier, the 14 year old or the tripfag bumping the thread.

If your buddy is shot in an extremity and shits hitting the fan. Take a knee, with said knee apply pressure above the wound and return fire.

>>30781208
I'm talking tactics running as a medic what's a good stack position 4th or last or should I dump the bag before or after making entry

>civilian
>"certified"
>"tactical"
If you don't have a EMB or CMB get the fuck out of here with your made up shit

I was CLS in the marines, now working 911 was a paramedic. All trauma advancements are owed to the military, and the majority of everything in trauma medicine, or field medicine I should say, hasn't changed. It's all simple stupid shit. Quick clot, tq, and what not.

Sucking chest wound, you're fucked unless you have definitive care. The halo chest seals work great, needle t someone is easy, but doesn't do shit. You would have to do a chest tube which wouldn't happen in combat or a dozen needle ts in the same area.

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It gave me a small chuckle

3/10.....

>>30781241
Same a s a rifle, as a medic, without your gear, you are useless. Medics don't go in stacks unless you are last or hurting for bodies.

>>30780545
>>30780599
>>30780935
>>30781000
>>30781123
This guy is obviously an LEO look at that attitude.

Swerve and protect.

THUG LYFE

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>>30781253
>CLS

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>>30781280

>>30781284
Combat life savers , iv starts, ect. More than just basic 1st aid and what your ifak could carry.

>>30781268
Thank you for an actual fucking answer
What I'm thinking is if you have a lvl 4 bag you should ditch it at the 1st door way you clear or dump it with the other tools like shield and breaching tools

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Is op a retard?


>>30780658
>>30780771
Nigga wat?

>>30781312
What part don't you understand

>>30781322
All of it...

>>30781301
It all vary on the mission. Is it one house you're clearing? Are you clearing an apartment complex? How many men are you responisble for?

>>30781345
Let's say apt. And 6 man team

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>>30781322
The part where a medic will need to be armed and going in with the SWAT team

Wouldn't you be getting in the way pr accidentally shooting the people you would be treating?

>>30781342
OK so if you are medic attached to swat you don't have to be Leo as long as you have the right certs having bleto does not seal the deal so you have a little space to work on your stuff in specific

>>30781299
Nigga do you not understand a fuckin dude greentexting and rolling his eyes? EVERYONE is CLS qualified. Fuck off with that shit.

>>30781362
Not really you have to train with the team you run with

>>30781377
What?

There is no standardized "certification" or "qualification". This is completely subjective and depends on numerous factors, all of which are above one man's level.

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>>30781377
Nigga you just said your job is NOT LEO
Leave the bang bang work to the pros and dont let your autism get some one killed

>Hey guys i work as a police officer in a hospital
> if i want to help the doc with surgery what kind of scrubs and scapel should i get??

>>30781404
What they look for mostly is TMO 1-3 and it helps alot if you have blet if you have other little certs it helps more

>>30781409
Yeah cuz that's what Leo's do right bang bang shit right

>>30781409
The only fuckers that do bang shit are swat and they get canceled on scene half the time so fuck off with that weak shit

>>30781444
In the case of a swat team going in yes you fucking mong

>>30781472
And if you want to talk some real shit a swat team isn't that hard to put down

>>30781426
What?

Your autism is like on another level.

Well I'm on a "team" and I don't have any certs.... I train with my team and merely am eyes/ears and in the back half of the group. SOPs are going to vary due to needs and resources. Our role is triage and hot/warm zone medical sup. Most civilian "swat" teams who bring an ALS level provider in are going to be similar. If you knew what you were talking about you'd know this kid.

>>30781470
I was referring to LEOs i was talking about the SWAT team and excluding anons non LEO medic dumbass

>>30781496
>And if you want to talk some real shit a swat team isn't that hard to put down

>Muh kawl of dooty makes me leet operator

You need to be 18 yrs old to post on here son

>>30781498
I'm not disagreeing with you you are 100% correct in that field what I'm talking about tactics weapons and tools that help the job

Not really sure where this butthurt is coming from. You've got two types of tac-p's: Leo that's paramedic qualified and is a full fledged officer or regular p's approved by their medical director to work as a tac-p. Tactical paramedicine and tecc and pretty much all tactical medical care is based on tccc which has decades worth of research and heavy input from sof, so no it is not a "subjective field". Tactical paramedics act like a line medic. Normal ems just isn't trained to respond appropriately to the wound patterns you'd find in the tactical environment.

You all are the worst kind of autism

>>30781549
They are changing tccc though

>>30781549
Penetrating trauma per ATLS and PHTLS is suddenly not different when in a law enforcement role. Stop bullshitting.

Tactical medicine is a selling point and everyone has their flavor of it and a school you can attend. It is merely tactics and how you deploy them and is going to vary on your resources back home.

An IV is an IV, a chest tube is a chest tube, a surgical airway is a surgical airway. Except for a cunt hair of incidents in the civilIan world none of that matters anyways. Any "tactical" situation where you would take the time to mobilize a team is going to be large scale and at that point it's merely triage, bls and system management so you spread the victims to the right resources.

Sorry, but all my "tactical" training has not made me better at treating penetrating trauma, something I see on the day to day, it's made me a better tool and resource for management of patients in a hot zone.

>>30781549
What wounds do you find in a "tactical" environment that normal ems don't train for

>>30781576
Tc3 changes every year based on medical developments and lessons learned, but the core material hasn't. It's about mixing good tactics and good medicine.

>>30781601
Thank you

>>30781549
Nigga you just as Delusional as that Michigan volunteer defense faggot

>>30781605
Not getting on you man but tell me your procedure for this scenario.

Your team stacks on a door, you breach and move through the house. Hostile inside hides in a hallway and ambushes your team. You guys engage but no1 guy takes multiple rounds and collapses. Your team takes out the shooter and continues clearing.

Go.

>>30781605
Katana attacks from teleporting gentleman

>>30781606
I agree what I'm asking is tools and other tactics can be implemented better ideas better things pretty much brain storming with you guys I understand that alot is set in stone but what can we think up that might be better

>>30781605
None, which is why the argument and the whole "tactical medicine" is super snow flake special is dumb when talking about medicine. It's not when talking about tactics and implementation, and even then is specific to your system and not something a book or class where everyone is wearing tan khaki and black Polo shirts can instruct. With exception to internal training and observers who can critique and provide a wealth of knowledge. All and all though this is still more law enforcement than medicine.

>>30781628
Follow regular SABC protocols fag

>>30781646
Talk me through it man, no need to get riled up

>>30781628
First take weapon do search find what's important first if chest is the only major thing chest seal if major limb bleed tournament. Drag out closer ems stand by if not there start second triage stuff emergency airway chest tube king or crike all while pumping fluids and a fuckton of morphine

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>>30781000
>I also work as a firefighter and I bring my own hose to work as I like the way mine feels better.

>>30781663

>>30781663
Ill type the summary since on phone

> if no other threats check up on him airway breathing etc
> check for exit wounds and see if his lungs have been puntured
> if he can breath apply presssure to bleeding areas
> if bleeding is not slowing done and severe use a torniqute if possible
> try to get them stable as possible and transport to medical care

>>30781663
I know what you're asking but I want to talk about how your kit is set up what gear you carry to move your meds and bandaids I'm not asking hey look at me I have medic training I'm trying to pry knowledge from a community and thanks for being one of the few to actually answer and inquire about questions

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>>30781697
>>30781697
>i was putting out fires before they paid me to do it
>I just like the way it feels

>>30781692
Easy there Rambo. You're going to "look for what's important" while still on the x? Your team hasn't finished clearing the house yet. Why don't you do a visual blood sweep and apply extremity hasty tq's. You probably wanna get that guy out of the house after that. You probably wanna reassess those tq's after that too. You probably wanna do a blood sweep for any junctional bleeds too. After that you might even wanna check his airway for patency.

Tactical medicine is as much about understanding the phases of care as well as the treatments. Have an open mind bud.

>>30781757
I'm mil and run on a four man team so my kits a bit different in that I carry extra equipment to account for a prolonged field care scenario. All my guys carry a plused up Ifak as well as a bleeder pouch with an if start and a 500cc of hextend and a cric kit. I want to be able to treat those life threatening wounds without having to even open my aid bag. In my bag I carry mainly hemcon. Combat gauze, tq's and elastic bandages to name a few. Also chest seals, decompression needles and npa's. Everyone gets tunnel vision on fluids, but bleeds, thoracic trauma and airway obstruction s are gonna kill your guy first. Also have a bum and pulse ox for basic monitoring.

In the truck bag I've got extra of the above but also more advanced monitoring like a bp cuff, urinary catheters chest tube kits and my laryngyscope. Been trying to get a small cardiac monitor but money's money. The team house is pretty much the restock point so it'll have all the above in case we casevac there. The biggest thing would be the ability to work with my doc back home via telemetry if needed.

>>30781910
*bvm

>>30781605
I imagine there's a slightly high chance of dealing with pt's with multiple rifle wounds as compared to your run of the mill gsw calls EMS typically see. That would be the only "different" type of wound I can realistically expect. It isn't even different just potentially more severe than average.

>>30781768
I understand that's what I trying to focus on was torns. Doing a decompress under fire isn't going to go well thats undercover work

What about bags what kind and make it have an old assault med bag from London Bridge it's pretty good

little bit of back story was 11B but always had an interest in medic work so i always have to weed my way past the tards that know little to nothing