How to fix Ranger School?

>>30780145
1 death every 12 years isnt bad. It sucks but the guy should have known his limits

>>30780145
no ranger school is it, the army holds it in high regard, it is sad to hear a man died and I give him much respect he was probably giving it his all and someone else failed him, he did not fail

>>30780145
Your claims are all fucky, or source them otherwise.

I've seen more than a few idiots who shouldn't have made private make well beyond captain without any tab.

Too hard?

This shit is selective for a reason.
You want the best of the best. Best men for the job. That requires weeding out those not suited.

Infantry OFFICERS will be leading men and need to set an example and be ATLEAST as qualified as the men they lead. If not more so. Thats why its a de facto requirement.

Are you mad you failed or something?

>>30780145
What are you some kind of pussy? No ranger school shouldnt be changed. We can't go around handing out tabs like participation trophies given to little league soccer players.

I've heard that it's too easy. How does it compare to Marine Recon?

>>30780196
Too late for that.

>>30780219
This.

the military has become so PC its sickening
im about this fucking close to just leaving oh man do I have stories

lets make everyone a fuckin Spec Operator. hell black women and trannsexuals should be the only fucks allowed now clearly they are more qualified

>>30780192
Naw I'm an Armor LT. Just buttmad I probably won't get a slot because they need to make more room for women or something. Plus your gaining unit has to send you now, you can't just earn it from BOLC which sucks because it's considered "optional" for Armor officers.

>>30780196
That happened already from 2002-2008. The surge fucked everything up. Highest pass rates in ranger school history for awhile.

>>30780244
Yeah you won't get a slot because exactly what you just mentioned among other issues. Sad but true.

Well honestly it seems like a waste to be sending armor officers to ranger school if its not a necessity. Definitely not a priority....

>>30780200
In general, the things you're required to do in RS aren't all that different from basic training. The main difference is that you do it nonstop with 1/3 the necessary calories and 1/4 the sleep.

On the whole, Rangers are just light infantry. The Ranger tab is more a mark/measure of mental fortitude and fighting spirit.

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>>30780145
We had an LT die of a heart attack back when I was in IBOLC 2011 timeframe, sucks but it happens.

The biggest thing I noticed when I got to ranger school was the vast majority weren't prepared physically, that's why RAP week is up front, to determine if you are physically capable of making it through the course. I went straight through in 2014 starting in FEB graduated APR.

The only thing I would do is put a bigger emphasis on the importance of peers to new students, so shitbags don't even make it to mountains.

>>30780166
It's unfortunate that he died, but the point of Ranger School is to push yourself as much as possible. This is tragic but necessary.

>>30780200
Where did you hear that it's too easy?

>>30780145
Yes. It should be ended outright. If an officer or NCO requires any of the training offered, it should be folded into IOBC, BNCOC, etc.

All of these dumb status things, especially these fake and gay tabs and badges and medals. 3/4s of all the garbage worn on the average soldier's uniform should be torn off and burned. How is it I ended up with more medals in peacetime than both my grandfathers (9th ID and 17th ABN, both infantry, both fought in BotB) combined?

>>30780336
What do you mean by prepared physically? Like couldn't pass the RPFT or just couldn't take getting smoked with little sleep and food? I heard you don't get smoked before the RPFT but then I heard otherwise as well.

>>30780145
It's a frat. Training is not the point. You're being jumped into the gang.

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>>30780379
They couldn't handle the constant smoking. They didn't smoke us before the RPFT, about 1/3 to 1/2 of the class was dropped for it. After that is was game on, I don't remember the order of events exactly but the worst was probably just running to Victory pond in full uniform holding onto a wet weather bag with a spare one in it. Whenever someone fell out we would have to lunge back to them. You have to game it all, when the instructor has his back turned you stop doing whatever exercise or rest, make sure to always go a little slower than the cadence, stay middle of the pack on everything. Its the Army so there is always stupid down time, you just need to realize whats going on in the grand scheme and just go to your happy place for the hour or two while they're "randomly" smoking you. I had a pay issue and went into the instructors office and its all scheduled out, the seemingly random smokings are actually closely tracked.

>>30780522
Makes sense they have everything down to a science at this point. So what happens to the folks that go to muscle failure and can't keep getting smoked?

My experience with smoking is pretty much limited to Air Assault which was pretty weak.

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>>30780784
If its in RAP week, they'll fail some sort of timed event, either the 3 mile buddy run, 12 mile ruck, Land nav, darby queen, whatever it may be. The only physical thing I ever failed was the rope climb on the darby queen because my forearms and grip were just fucking done but I wasn't worried because its only a minor minus.

If its during patrols then they will just fucking suck ass, probably try and spotlight during their own patrol, then get peered out. Its amazing how guys will be complete shitbags, then as soon as they are rotated into positions they all the sudden have a massive burst of energy and want everyone else to work hard for them. Peers are extremely important, and that's why those women passing ranger school doesn't mean anything, they couldn't be peered.

>>30780522

yeah... i'm in the Air Force doing fighter-type stuff and while you're a student in training you think your air-to-air fights are the most dynamic things in the world but the instructors know exactly what they're going to present to you and it's your job to figure it out and kill them.

>>30780145
Sounds more like a problem with how people are considered for promotion/unit leadership than a problem with ranger school

>>30781084
Non-mil here, can you explain the peering thing a bit more?

>>30781084
>that's why those women passing ranger school doesn't mean anything, they couldn't be peered.

How do you know this?

I don't know much when it comes to this stuff so maybe some anon here can help me out. So, most infantry officers in the army have to go through ranger school right? What about infantry officers in the marines? Do they also go through ranger school?

>>30781425
Marines think that ranger school is unnecessary because it's something that every infantryman should already know and excel at. But if you read veteran forums, the marines that have been to ranger school say that it was a valuable experience.

>>30781468
ah, thanks anon!

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>>30781376
One of my squad leaders was an RI at 4th RTB and one of my previous squad leaders is there right now.

>>30781343
At the end of each phase you rank everyone from 1 (being best) to however many people there are in the squad, so if there's 15 people the lowest ranking would be 14. You then have to justify your ranking by answering a few questions, Would you share a fox hole with this person? Would you follow this person on a deployment? Would you trust this person to XYZ? The instructors make you be detailed, and fill out about a paragraph per question. It gets brutal as fuck after coming in from 11 days in the field watching guys dodge the heavy work. Then they total the rankings and give you a percentage, if you peer below a certain percentage you automatically fail that phase and could either recycle that phase, be a day 1 recycle, or get sent home. Its how you deal with the guys who only perform when the instructors are watching.

>>30781425
Some recon marines, Jtacs, CCTs, Seals, british paras, were in my Ranger school class

>>30781425
>All in all, Ranger School was a great experience for me. The training was exceptional and I was well versed in the art of raids and ambushes, something I took back to my team. The leadership skills you learn are intangible. It’s not formal instruction on leadership, but basically getting thrown into the mix and being forced to lead men. Another overlooked asset of being a tabbed Marine, is the ability to relate to your Army brothers when doing joint exercises. So, all of the Marines out there that think Ranger School has nothing to offer, think again.

https://sofrep.com/1439/ranger-school-from-a-recon-marines-perspective/

>>30781486
Gotcha, never knew they used it there.

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>>30780145
>So should Ranger school be changed?
>Are students being pushed too hard?
This is the quintessential problem with Americans today. And honestly, being in service I would expect you to understand this better.

The whole point of Ranger School is to put candidates in a physically demanding, mentally taxing, high stress environment. If someone is injured or dies, short of it being pure negligence on the part of the RIs or support and training staff, then so be it. You volunteer for Ranger School knowing there are risks involved.

Having your black and gold indicates that you won't crack under stress, are you advocating changing standards so the graduation rates are higher, or what? If so that defeats the entire purpose of Ranger School. Ranger School does not exist to provide candidates with some sort of knowledge that they shouldn't have picked up elsewhere. It exists to identify those who can readily perform under stress.

This bullshit idea of rewarding people who come in second, third, fourth, eighth damn place in contemporary America has resulted in a generation of pussies. This has no place in the military.

“We must remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school.” Tragic that he died, but Ranger School exists for a singular purpose, and it fulfills that role very well. The death of an individual does not merit discounting those benefits.

>>30781816

Then why are PJs still best at CQB? :p

>tfw going to ranger school with my LT next summer

>>30780336

>heart attack

It was from all that rip it

>>30781279

This desu

Ranger should be mandatory for officers, first sgts, and CSMs in combat arms MOS.

>>30782803

Hear hear

>>30781816
it's not just americans. there are calls to reduce the SAS selection because of some course deaths a couple of years ago due to heat stroke iirc.

i think the SAS found an officer guilty of neglect because there are obvious warning signs in something like that but changing a course like that when deaths are that uncommon is just stupidity.

Is it possible for a civillian to go to ranger school without joining the military?

>>30783211
not likely

>>30780192
Well then I guess it is good that spelling is not part of that qualification.

>>30783211
That is an objectively stupid question.

>>30780200
>I've heard that it's too easy

Ranger school, maybe. RASP? Fuck no.

>>30780244
>Naw I'm an Armor LT. Just buttmad I probably won't get a slot because they need to make more room for women or something. Plus your gaining unit has to send you now, you can't just earn it from BOLC which sucks because it's considered "optional" for Armor officers.

Now I don't want you for an Armor officer, either. Please resign your commission so that it can be given to someone who actually wants to be a good Armor officer instead of a fake Ranger.

>>30780145
Evolution works. Deal with it.

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>>30783797
On a scale from 1 to 10, how balls to the wall is the average operation in a Ranger Battalion?

>>30780145
I think considering it's difficulty it's where it should be. However, I do see your point. They are expecting all infantry 2nd LTs to get the tab and soon all Armored officers.

A tab doesn't make a leader, not to say that ranger school isn't an invaluable asset.

The army culture should be looked at not Ranger school.

I fear this will one day water down ranger school

>>30783852
I agree with this.

>>30783797
Classic fucking Ricky post
Always glad to see you

>>30780145
i would be more worried if people didnt sometimes die at ranger school

>>30780145
Survival of the fittest. Don't water down the most infamously grueling training school in the world because some idiot didn't see a medic when he needed to.

>>30783811
Everybody I know who's done RASP said it was a joke.

>>30783211
Supposedly, you better have a fat bank account though.

i always read about starving ranger guys and how it tests your limits. unofficialy everyone is trying to steal food and dumpster dive.

Why not just teach foraging?

>>30785416
>Why not just teach foraging?

That isn't the point.
>why do they make you so cold in BUD/s?
>just teach them how to layer

>>30780145
Just intensify medical screening before and during the course.

>>30780166
Wut.

They push you passed those on purpose. For good reason.

But you wanted him to say what? Time out? Then apologize to his ranger buddy as he put him back down "I have to leave you behind"

>>30781816
One of the few trips worth reading

>>30780145
Not entirely related, but how difficult is it really to get your Ranger tab? I've met probably a half dozen and all of them were people who you wouldn't expect to be SF. What I'm asking is, can an average person qualify for ranger school with just a little skill and willpower, or is it something for the truly elite?

>>30786121
Shut your dick pit and research the school for ten minutes. If you're meeting these people try talking to them instead of shit posting in a shit post.

>>30783894
Airfield seizures are pretty crazy, unless its a blue bird infil.

>>30786505
It's always airfield seizures with you lot.