Can any Americans explain the Second Amendment for me? Is it

>>30506701
How much are you willing to bet?

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>>30506701

>Is it actually intended to make it possible for the people to rise against the government if it ever becomes tyrannical?
Yes.

>If so, why does the whole discussion is focused exclusively around guns?
Because the people trying to take your guns either want it impossible to rebel, or think that every military serviceman would be on the side of the gov't in the event of an actual revolution.

>Surely you'd need some heavier stuff in an actual civil war scenario (pic related), yet I'm willing to bet that even the most hard-line second amendment supports don't support ANY weapon being freely available.
In the words of the 2nd amendment, it should technically be legal to own. The point of the 2nd amendment was the grant access to citizens the same type of weapons that are available to the gov't to ensure that the people could keep the gov't in check if need be.

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>>30506725
That feeling when you are listening to Tay while reading this.

>I've never been so hard in my life.

>>30506701
If people had to rise up, I doubt many servicemen and police would stand with them for long, they are or were civilians at one point. Unless drones were capable of replacing most aspects of military/police.
And you're half right, I do support the ability to own anything. However realistically, most cities would ban/regulate things like explosives but not the ownership.
Armored vehicles with weapons? Sure, as long as it doesn't tear the road up and take off or deactivate the weapons before you drive on public roads so you don't ND the cannon on your M60, you can reactivate them later anyways.
Chemical/Bio? Ehhhh this one is a littel tough honestly.

>>30506725
>>30506734
>>30506738
OP here. I'm not trolling and I actually like the idea behind the second amendment. My problem is that it seems to me that small arms play a smaller role on the battlefield (relatively speaking) to when the Second Amendment was written. Hell, at some point guns based on chemical combustion might be completely outdated. Shouldn't this somehow be taken into account if you really want to follow the spirit of the Second Amendment?

>>30506779
>modern battlefield*

>>30506779
>>30506788
you mean something like a nuclear ar15?

>>30506779
An insurrection is not going to be fought out in the desert. Drones and fighter jets can't stand on a street corner and police an unfriendly population. They can't go into basements and catch people making plans. In short, fix your brain.

An armed population is a deterrent. Open revolt is the nuclear weapon that nobody actually wants to use or have used against them, but having the potential of it keeps the peace.

>>30506777
>I doubt many servicemen and police would stand with them for long
When will this meme die? You are saying it yourself that local law enforcement does not view themselves as civilian anymore.

The cops are so jaded they do not identify with you. They are waiting for any excuse to fuck you up aka play with their military toys.

The military so conditioned they look at you like a useless pussy. If command tells them to fuck you up, they must have a good reason for it. The End.

>>30506701
OP, fuck listening to us. Read the constitution, then read The Federalist Papers.

>>30506779
Soliders and policemen are still or were civilians, most wouldn't stand with a tyrannical government once things get really hairy.

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>>30506779
privately owned warships were a thing back in the day. the 2nd amendment either provides for the ownership of everything including nuclear weapons or it is outdated. I personally only care about owning an assault rifle. I guess I'm a neofudd.

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"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

There is some confusion among people about what the amendment does. Most think it grants you the right to bear arms, but no, that would be flawed. It would be like the fox telling the hen that it won't eat it. What it actually does is ensure that the government cannot infringe upon the peoples naturally born right to protect themselves, from all threats foreign and domestic. An invading army, a mugger or rapist, or their own government turned tyrannical through corruption and delusion. The amendment has nothing to do with hunting. The amendment has nothing to do with sport shooting. It exists to protect the people, and in that way it exists to protect the other amendments. A disarmed people have no way of protecting themselves. Words cannot stop the police kicking down your door for writing an anti government article. A vote cannot remove a dictator from office. Prayer cannot stop the military from commuting genocide upon your people. Currently a certain faction within our government is doing all the can to whittle this right down to nothing. We need to stop them before they succeed. Did this help? Any other questions?

>>30506767
Jefferson was a federalist POS. The bill of rights was only granted as a concession to the anti-federalists who were literally ready to go to war over the idea of having another government forced upon them in the form of the "constitution".

>>30506779
I'm no expert but my understanding of the 2nd amendment is that it was written so that at any given time the civilian populace could be equally armed as the average soldier. So that in case of a violent revolution the people would be fighting on equal ground.

>>30506813
You don't know what you're talking about.

>>30506821
Bullshit. They know they will have a target painted on them for dissent and they know who is giving them special privileges.

>>30506813
That's just not true. Most enlisted soldiers and police officers have taken an oath and value that more than the political career of their superior officers. Will you have brown nosing brass give the order? Yes. Absolutely. But you will have a high percentage of lower ranks that either will defect or simply refuse.

>>30506701
Technically, those things are legal to own. However the mindset of "civilians don't need it, so let's make it illegal" has made them prohibitively expensive. They are also so regulated as to be immediately traceable upon use. This makes said use legally very dangerous for the owner.

>>30506796
yeah or maybe magnetic based guns. Think about it, if they'd make those things illegal right now, no gun owner would give a damn. However, maybe the common service rifle will work according so similar principles in 50 years or so. Or maybe infantry wouldn't play a role at all anymore in a modern military and they're all just using autonomous, armed drones. Either way, if they Second Amendment is just going to be about 'the right to bear arms', it'll be outdated at some point in the future. The real issue is how much military firepower we want to keep available to the people.

>>30506869
All the firepower they can responsibly keep.

>>30506701
>willing to bet that even the most hard-line second amendment supports don't support ANY weapon being freely available.

people should be free to own any arm under the sun

>>30506827
This. The bill of rights were not a list from the government to the people telling them what they were allowed. They were a list of things from the people to the government telling them what they could not take.

>>30506840
They'll have a target painted on them for being a jackboot, too.

The smart ones will side with the people. The people always win.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Revolution

Always.

>>30506869
Since they do not use a chemical reaction to propel the round a rail gun(magnetic) would not be classified as a firearm. In fact they would be classified closer to air rifles than anything.

>>30506890
I like that. I'm going to use that. A much simpler way to explain it.

>>30506890
thank you for putting it so succinctly.

>>30506811
>Drones and fighter jets can't stand on a street corner and police an unfriendly population. They can't go into basements and catch people making plans.
But they're already developing robots (land-based drones if you will) that can walk into that basement. Look at this motherfucker right here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVlhMGQgDkY
Just slap a gun onto it, give it a better battery and a few more decades of AI development and you'll have something that potentially can butt rape an armed insurgence.

>>30506890
Well said.

>>30506929
It'd need a dick for that specific function.

>>30506779
>I'm not trolling

>>30506701
I want gay-married transsexual lesbians to be able to defend their marijuana farms from federal agents with machineguns and armored vehicles.

>>30506866
>But you will have a high percentage of lower ranks that either will defect or simply refuse.
HAHAHAHA, do you actually believe this shit?

>You
>The military will see how righteous our fight is and side with us to honorably protect the constitution

>.Mil
>The president and congress have authorized us to use force against some dumbasses at the local gun club who think they can take on the greatest fighting force the world has ever seen. We will show them how wrong they are.

>>30506904
I think you don't understand that the US has surveillance technologies that make the capabilities of 1980s Romania look medieval. There will never, ever be a classic rebellion in this country ever again. The leaders will be V& before it ever happens.

>>30506828
Sounds like you've never met a police officer

>>30506945
You don't understand the mindset of most soldiers bro.

>>30506701
Any weapon? As in any conventional weapon? Any rifle, any artillery, any vehicle, missile, etc? Yeah, many of us absolutely are in favor of that. Some of our founders had their own seafaring vessels with cannons on them. If some billionaire wants to buy and old, used battleship or build his very own, be my fucking guest.

Want a fully automatic rifle? Awesome, you should be able to have one. Have fun feeding and caring for that shit though.

Want C-4 or an RPG? Yeah, I am all in favor of that. Have fun paying to feed your launcher.

If some odd billionaire wants to go bankrupt weaponizing uranium and assembling his very own ICBM, making a guidance system, a launch system, a silo to store it in, etc. then please be our guest.

The second amendment is so we can defend ourselves in our homes and so we can defend against a hostile government and overthrow it. Which means that we need access to the same conventional weapons that our armed forces are.

That being said, if a bunch of sand monkeys hiding among civilian populations and in caves can hold out against two super powers with nothing but small arms, old explosives, and improvised/homemade explosives, then US citizens could certainly do the same in a civil war even given the limited nature of the weapons that we can legally and easily access.

>>30506929
That would be in no way cost effective.

A robot that intricate will never as cheap as getting Cleboon and Shartquon to wear a blue beret and hit the door.

>>30506955
I've spent most of a decade hanging out with Marines.

>>30506910
>Since they do not use a chemical reaction to propel the round a rail gun(magnetic) would not be classified as a firearm
Hence it would be relatively easy to ban. Maybe I've been writing my posts horribly so far, but that's exactly the point I'm trying to make. If you want to keep the Second Amendment alive, you'd need to talk about much more fundamental issues than assault guns, pistol grips, barrel shrouds and micro stamps.

>>30506701
It's late and I'm tired but, what the hell, I'll give it a go.

The Second Amendment is as much a check against tyranny as anything else but it's first important to look at the context of the entire Bill of Rights. This is the Top Ten List of things that the framers thought were important to enough to ratify along with the Constitution so that there would be no doubt, no equivocation, no state intrusion on the fundamental and natural rights of man - in the gender neutral form, for you Tumblrinas in the audience.

And it's mostly a list of things which the state is not permitted to do; it may not establish a church, it may not force you to incriminate yourself, it may not abscond with your property and it may not force you to host soldiers in your home, among other things.

And number two on this list is the right of the people to keep and bear arms.

Now, you may say, "but anonymous, it's not the people's right! It's the militia's!" And to that I say, learn to read English. It's not even especially archaic English. Let's break it down.

>A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed

What right?
>to keep and bear Arms

Whose?
>the people

For what purpose?
>A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State

See? It's not that hard.

>>30506969
And they'll feel bad if they have to shoot you, but they'll more likely than not shoot you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

>>30506945
>There will never, ever be a classic rebellion in this country ever again
There will be, the federal government is predicting turmoil in the next 15 years or so.
Besides, lack of "classic rebellion" right now has nothing to do with surveillance. People are largely pacified through amenities of the first world, but it's a double edged sword.

>>30506929
I'll be worried about robots when they can't be defeated with a blanket

>>30506938
>It'd need a dick for that specific function
Fisto Roboto

>>30506945
Once word starts rolling in to those troops that their families are being killed by government forces the rate of defections will increase. Lower enlisted do tend to see themselves as a different class of citizen, but as a protective class. You see this in the high number of soldiers who go on to LEO positions when they leave the service.

>>30506938
I'm away from the house. Can somebody please post up a weapon to surpass metal gear?

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>>30507029
>their families are being killed by government forces
>the rate of defections will increase.

>>30506945
>I think you don't understand that the US has surveillance technologies that make the capabilities of 1980s Romania look medieval
fun fact, the military's tech didn't go up while the rest of us filthy peasants stayed at 1980s Romania level.

>>30506977
according to the law, the militia is the people.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/311

it isn't even up for debate either way. If you're male and American, you are militia. I don't think the line should even be drawn there; women have been irregular fighters throughout history and some to great effect.

>>30506987
lol, Nope. If you have not served, you are not people to them.

The only exception being civilians who have displayed some equivalent aptitude for dealing with shit, surviving adversity and behaving fearlessly.

>>30507029
Duh, their families will not be targeted. Why would they be?

>>30507096
>Why would they be?
because Johnny Marine's little brother Billy is into Rage Against the Machine, anon.

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>>30506701
EU shills are up, abandon ship until dawn /k/omandos

>>30507092
I don't disagree with you but I think you're missing the point. It doesn't matter who the militia are, it's the people's right. The people may form the militia, sure, but you don't have to be a member of the militia to be a member of the people; the militia is not the operative concern, here, it's an explanation for why the people have that right.

>>30507072
fun fact: The US mil is 50 years ahead of civ tech.

Get fucked EU scum.

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>>30507117
what I mean is that if some faggot is going NUH UH IT'S THE MILITIA WHO GETS THE GUNS well

I'm the militia

gib M16 plox

>>30507096
I get the distinct impression you've not served.

>>30507096
>lol, Nope. If you have not served, you are not people to them.
>The only exception being civilians who have displayed some equivalent aptitude for dealing with shit, surviving adversity and behaving fearlessly.
Nigger, I have served. I also know that your group of magic marine friends will fall in line in the same way milgram's experiment says that they will and the same way the nazis did.

>>30507128
fun fact, it takes twelve seconds to kill a jackboot when he isn't looking and steal his shit

t. Jamal Ungabunga

>>30506701
It is not "intended" for anything. It is written, along with the rest of the Bill of Rights, to say that government has no legitimate power over citizens owning arms, and that they (Freeborn citizens) have the right to be armed however they may please inherent upon their birth.

>>30507154
fun fact: you won't be facing jack boots you EU-fuck. You can't stop everyone. And that's what Brussels will have to do. Kill all of us.

>>30507029
>>30506987
>>30506969
Do you guys really, honestly think that any kind of subjugation would ever occur using the US Military? The answer is that it would never happen, the forces in command of any such operation would take care to ensure that no word was ever received by any low-ranking soldiers or even officers. You would probably see this general progression:
1. Declaration of emergency due to some word of the day: terrorism, rebels, fascists, etc.
2. Mass mobilization of military forces into a foreign theatre where the movement of information can be easily restricted. SE Asia, Middle East, Africa,
3. Some form of communications blackout, either domestic, or in the theatre of war. Probably domestic, since it eases movement to the next step.
4. Deployment of a secondary possibly private military force with few legitimate ties to the population in response to a false flag or legitimate but overblown incident.
5. Generation of a generic, faceless, but especially secret enemy whose presence can be easily declared or applied to multiple situations. EG, criticizing governmental policy or attacking specific ideologies.
6. Controlled influx of information to overseas forces. Information is purposefully misrepresented, though ostensibly correct. E.G., someone's parents are killed (by government forces) but it is presented in such a way as to indicate that it was directly as a result of enemy actions.
6. Generate a reason as to why deployed forces must stay deployed. Biological attack, radiological detonation or leak, massive enemy offensive, etc.
7. In the chaos, solidify control over all political branches, legislative, judicial, and executive. Force them to grant emergency powers to an organization in which you have a strong level of control

Congratulations, you have successfully lead a coup without ostensibly declaring yourself an enemy of the existing government.

>>30506701
There are so many local police and sheriff Dept's that refuse to enforce gun bans if they ever came. The big government isnt on our side, but lots of small local agencies are. Big city cops not so much. I don't know about military. I know a lot of guys that say they would refuse to shoot us citizens, but you can look at our history and see that that's probably just talk. All of these people saying the government wouldnt kill us need only look a few years back and see when the military was used against us civilians.

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>>30506701
>Surely you'd need some heavier stuff in an actual civil war scenario (pic related)

We do have heavier stuff, OP. We just don't talk about it much because the ATF reads this.

Also see Iraqi insurgency.

>>30507150
>>30506987
I agree. I misread the second part of the sentience as
>They'll will more likely not shoot you

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>>30506945
>The president and congress have authorized us to use force against some dumbasses at the local gun club who think they can take on the greatest fighting force the world has ever seen. We will show them how wrong they are.

>goons flying out in Black Hawks to shoot my dogs
>they don't know about my Igla
anon pls

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>>30507150
Good on the Nazis for being dragged into every debate on conflicting philosophies.

Pic
Goddamned
Related

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>>30507191
Nobody is even going to read that. But your right, individuals will be in control. And they will probably engage constitutional legal actions.

Brits, don't listen to these shit heads from Brussels, we back you, you are our brothers.

Hold fast.

>>30507191
Firstly, you've forgotten the local PD.
And veterans.
And you've never served because you made your lack of understanding the E4 mafia all too clear.

In short, what you are proposing,from the deployment of the armed forces in entirety, to the communication blackout, to the use of solely PMC's is just not possible.

>>30507191
You evil fuck... Go back to the pentagon and tell them to give me liberty or give me death.

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>>30507184
I get the feeling you're literally retarded

Also I'm in Texas.

PS choke on a horsecock and die

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>>30507244
unfortunately it's kind of hard when more and more people are actually Hitler

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>>30507316
Globalist be reaching hard, too bad they're only 4ft 2" and the coco puffs on top the fridge.

>Brits just pulled the chair from under them

topkek

>>30507191

Damn didn't realize I lived in Cawwadooty world

>>30507341
No shit. It's like they expect everyone and their battle buddy to be in theatre at the same time... That shit don't happen, bruh

>>30507324
>I'm in texas
>Enjoy your holiday!

Or enjoy your time in Austin, Trumps going to send you home : )

>I get the feeling you're literally retarded

Why do you have insult the disabled to push your message? Is it literally that flawed? People of Texas are nothing like you. Why try so hard to fool 4chan readers? Are you that afraid?

>>30506823
>Owning an assault rifle
Assuming you're using the literal definition of an "assault rifle," you have a problem with NFA items?

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>>30507371
I think you've read something exorbitantly stupidly imaginary into the posts I've made.

Either that or you literally think everyone responding to you is the same person

either way fucking blow me

>>30507417
Prove you are from Texas lol,
>you won't

>exorbitantly stupidly imaginary
You sir are not from Texas, and I'm calling you out.

>either way fucking blow me

Make me.

>>30506960
>That being said, if a bunch of sand monkeys hiding among civilian populations and in caves can hold out against two super powers with nothing but small arms, old explosives, and improvised/homemade explosives, then US citizens could certainly do the same
This is a good point, we've seen the scenario of an under-equipped civilian population keeping much more powerful enemies at bay in action already. It's been what? fifteen years of stomping around a desert, bombing with drones, warships, fighter planes and whatnot? They are still there, making everyone's lives miserable.

>>30507485
it should also be noted that all of the little hipster faggots who go
>hurr durr muh drones
ignore this fact and are operating under the assumption that the military will unify under the US government rather than splintering into loyalists, rebels, and fence sitters waiting to see who they should join with.

Drone striking citizens will level city blocks and will only serve to create more enemies to the state. People will actually care when you try to drone strike a few rebels and level a city block with a few hundred civilians along with the rebels.

So little fuckwits like that should honestly spend more of their time attempting to sodomize each other with Hellfire missiles instead of attempting to think up cute talking points regarding civil wars and why muh "yee-hadist rednecks" are incapable of fighting government forces in the event of a civil war.

>>30507520
>Drone striking citizens will level city blocks and will only serve to create more enemies to the state.
Have you ever been to a city, anon?

>>30507532
Maybe he hasn't. You should check your privilege.

>>30507544
>Implying having been to a city was a privilege
Going to NYC was traumatizing more than anything. Never again.

>>30507532
Have you ever been to NYC? How many people do you think that a single AGM Hellfire missile would kill? You might as well be leveling a city block with the sheer number of people that you're slaughtering

>>30506827
>>30506890
Finally some people who understand the concept of negative liberty.

>>30506827
>>30506890


>Brussels Please.

>>30507608
>Austin Texas

Good game dude.

>Confirmed for liberal shill.

>>30507191
I watched Episode I, II, and III as well

>>30507620
It's a state document you literal retard, they all come from Austin.

Read The Moon is Down.

>>30507625
>Way to delete

Stop shilling for Hillary you un-American piece of shit.

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>>30506701

>>30507661
when did I "shill" for Hillary? The only one doing any shilling here is you. Have you squeezed a whole dollar from the Trump dick yet in this thread? Better suck harder.

>>30506779
Addressing WMDs is relatively easy.
Biological and chemical agents are banned from use by treaty by the U.S. government. At least technically, the U.S. government cannot own them in any quantity beyond a small amount for research purposes.

Nukes a theoretically harder, except for the fact that nuclear weapons are prohibitively expensive. The world's richest people would go broke trying to build even a small nuke. So you could say, yes, private citizens can own nuclear weapons. Good luck with that.

Anything less than a WMD should be legal for those who can afford it.

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>>30507699
>Trump dick

LOL

you mad now

>>30507703
>Google uses nukes on Apple
>2nd amendment anon!

>>30506813
If recent riots are any indication, most U.S. cops simply bug out when faced with any significant resistance.

>>30507721
Apple will nuke them back

MAD is a wonderful thing

also we're now down two evil cyberpunk megacorps

hooray!

>>30507724
>also we're now down two evil cyberpunk megacorps
You haven't spent time working in either have you?

>>30507699
>2016 Rep Non: Donald Trump
>Have you squeezed a whole dollar from the Trump dick yet in this thread? Better suck harder.

You never had to say Hillary, but it's obvious who you are shilling for. When Trump gets elected, I hope you bring enough salty tears for everyone.
Also considering Democrats are leading demographic for mass shooters crimes, please don't hurt a bunch of innocent people in a childish act of violence because you didn't get your way.

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>>30506945
Obligatory

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>>30507620
btw I got a sweet screen shot of your lapse of judgment /k/ is going to kek on you for weeks

>>30507721
Assuming Apple did not initiate a Nuclear strike on Google first, whoever authorized the attack would be charged with just about everything the justice department could come up with. The charges from the EPA alone for environmental destruction would probably break the company.

>>30507893
You do realize the entire central valley was marshland that was destroyed by farmers, right?

You do know that warships were salted with nuclear material that was then washed into the bay at Treasure Island, right?

You do know the military dispersed biological agents off ocean beach to track infection patterns in the Bay Area, right?

You do know the Refineries in the east bay routinely break EPA regulations but are never fined, right? They literally dump water that is so toxic into the bay you are advised never to swim within a couple miles of them.

>>30506746
Can aany one modernize how the media would spin this story in today's news???

>>30506813
JUST
DOING
MY
JOB

>>30506701
What the hell do you think a "tyrannical" government would look like? do you think there will be large scale battles with tanks and jets between millitia and government forces with thousands of men command and conquer style?

No, you fucking idiot

the whole idea is that you cant push anyone around. try sending in some cops to round up people for execution, bam, you have a heap of dead cops. try gunning down civilians in protest, bam you're dead. try fucking the people over, they shoot you.

at the end of the day, a tyrannical government works by being in absolute control because they have guns, so you do what they say. That doesnt work when every civilian has a gun too

>>30506779
>The gun will change, should we change the 2nd because of this?
No, if the 2nd amendment no longer protects my right as a citizen of the United Planets of America to own a railgun, then I'm fucking leaving.
Firearms have changed significantly, propellants have changed, rate of fire has changed, cooling efficiency has changed, to the point where a single man can carry more firepower in his arms than ten men of the founder's time could. That doesn't mean that the modern man's rights should be infringed.

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The true "founding father"

>>30507244
You know, just because it hurts your feelings, that doesn't make it untrue.
>>30507759
>Obligatory
Only if you're an idiot.

>>30508125
>right to life
then why isn't abortion outlawed?

>>30509859
Because we live in an immoral, purposeless, and degenerate society.

>>30509859
Because babies aren't people.

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>>30509859
Then why isn't meat outlawed?

>>30507935
The wounded knee occupation. Look it up. Closest equivalent for when modern media is involved.

>>30510262
because rights are God-given (to man) and not natural-born (to animals)

>>30509859
It is not conscious nor has any form of independence and would be unable to live without the mother. It is a fetus not a baby. It is in development and is not actually alive.

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>>30510387
Oh, you're one of those people.

>>30507935
>GUN NUTS WHITE MALES EX MILITARY TURNED TERRORISTS GUILTY OF ASSAULTING GOOD DEMOCRAT MAYOR AND HIS ADVISORS ON SOCIAL JUSTICE AFTER THE MAYOR WON LATEST ELECTIONS BUT HAD TO NOT COUNT THE BALLOTS IN FEAR THEY WOULD BE DESTROYED BY THE GUN NUTS WHITE MALES EX MILITARY TURNED TERRORISTS WHO WERE THUS LOCKED IN JAIL WITH THE AFOREMENTIONNED BALLOTS TO MAKE SURE THE BALLOTS WOULD BE SAFE FROM PEOPLE WILLING TO DESTROY THEM IN ORDER TO CONTEST THE MAYOR'S REELECTION.

>>30506948
I married into a cop family

>>30510412
It is alive.

According to literally every definition except the one you just came up with out of convenience.

It has a right to life -- doesn't mean you have the right to deny it that right BEFORE it can enjoy the right.

Filthy liberal gungrabber logic right there.

>>30506948
Some suck some are cool just like anything else in the world.

With Trump on the rise, I need guns to protect myself from white nationalist militias. Fighting against the government is just a talking point supporters of the 2nd use to justify their position and fall back on the Founding Fathers. It's honestly a pretty cheap tactic because it subverts the fact that the Constitution was a product of compromise and that the Founding Fathers didn't think as one monolithic entity.

But liberals are misguided if they think stricter gun control will reduce gun violence. It's really just a rotten culture that leads to shootings. If Japan had the amount of firearms we do, they would still probably have way less shootings per capita.

>>30510492
There wasn't much debate about the right to bear arms. They all agreed on that.

>>30510463
is a pile of wood and nails a house?

do all trees have to abide by house roofing regulations? who pays the housing tax on those trees?

>>30506701
>yet I'm willing to bet that even the most hard-line second amendment supports don't support ANY weapon being freely available.

You'd be wrong.

>>30510492
I'm going to kill your nigger ass and enjoy every moment of it.

>>30510463
then all sperms and eggcells are alive and have the right to be fertilised.

keeping the foetus alive is an active process the mom can stop at any time during pregnancy. the mother does not owe the foetus the right to be developed...

>>30510575
are there enough bears for those arms to go around though...

>>30510575
Sorry, I should've clarified. Most supporters of the 2nd will fall back on Jefferson's quotes on rebellion as proof that the Founding Fathers wanted guns to allow people to fight against the government even though events like Shays' Rebellion mortified people like the Federalists.

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You are right. The 2nd Amendment was meant to allow the early settlers to hunt with single shot muskets because supermarkets weren't readily available. The Founding Fathers (and Mothers) knew the people would starve without deer meat so they wrote it into the Constitution. It's out dated now though because Walmarts are everywhere and we eat beef now.

>>30510595
Bruh, I'm Asian and I work a boring software engineering job. Good luck trying to find me and kill me, and even then enjoy getting locked up for killing a law-abiding citizen who contributes more to the economy than you if you do manage to break into my house and not get shot.

>>30510604
>I don't know the difference between a gamete and an embryo
You should probably stop talking, because at this point, you're just a fucking retard.

Sperm and egg cells, by themselves, are no more human than hairs on your head, fingernails, or your teeth. They are incomplete instructions. Only when combined will they ever, and can they ever, make an organism.

>>30510413
>Hurr-durr humans and animals are the same.

The inherent value of a human life at birth will always be worth more than an animal, regardless of whether or not you've left your fedora at the door or brought it with you. Human beings aspire to be more than animals, and we seek a higher purpose in life. Animals are just content with fucking and eating on a daily basis until they die.
Despite the hedonistic society thst we live in, I'd say that, if they were asked, most people would probably say that they want to make something better of themselves if they could or live a meaningful life.

>>30506701
if a government can use it to kill innocents, then the people should have it to kill government agents.

>>30506904
Thanks, was a good read

>>30510587
terrible analogy

>>30510623
>Bruh, I'm Asian and I work a boring software engineering job.

And you're really worried about 'white nationalist militias'? Come on, don't give me your MotherJones soundbites.

>>30510492
>>30510623
I don't understand why you being asian would want to protect yourself from white people. It's not like white people are like "those damn smart hard working asians are coming over here and working hard and contributing to society". I seriously have not ever heard a racist comment about asians except in good fun. Hell white guys love asian women.

>>30510623
Oh hey, I'm also asian. Help my dad run a convenience store/ import business so I'm frankly more in danger than the nigger threat. White nationalist militias are frankly so far removed from reality I'm curious if you've ever been down south.

>>30510771
Seriously, are white people threatening you for being asian? I've lived in the south my whole life and have never seen or heard of it.

>>30510692
I never said that, infact the point I was trying to make is that humans and animals are not equal. By extension, fetuses are not equal to mature humans due to similar reasons.

I said you're one of "those" people because you rationalized your position by using religious beliefs.

>>30506827
Fuggg well said

>>30510803
>humans aren't the same as animals
>but human fetuses are the same as animal fetuses!
How much mercury did you drink this morning?

>>30510825
Once again, I never said or implied that. Please learn to read.

>>30510832
yes, you pretend that young humans aren't humans... because it fucks with your lifestyle/politics. You tell biology and science to fuck right off, because... uh... it's like... tiny and shit...

It's time to tell the politics to "fuck off" for the sake of sanity, bro. You're lying to yourself and it's affecting your very humanity. You can literally choose to stop being wrong all the time.

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>>30506701
Just for reference, ISIS is around 1 million in number, and AL-queda is around 300-600k

Even with the lower estimate of 1/10 fit people working against the government, you'd have 7,000,000 insurgents against 3,000,000 solders.

More insurgents than Vietnam, ISIS, and Al-queda combined.

>>30510865
Fetuses don't see significant brain development till week 26. They don't see maturing of cognitive function until well after birth.

But yeah, i'm the one ignoring biology.

>>30510865
On abortion: if you're against it, man up and fucking adopt some unwanted kid that's out there. Make a world where an unwanted child won't grow up in the system, because a criminal piece of shit, and I'll happily be against abortion. Until then, it helps keep criminal scum off the streets.

>>30510886
>M-muh milestones!!!
And it doesn't smoke dicks like you do until it's into its teen years.

Human embryos are still human. You can use every bullshit excuse in the handbook to say otherwise, but if you're literally making up bullshit definitions of "life" and "human" and all that shit just so you can excuse the wholesale extinguishing of innocent human life.

>>30506929
Dig a big hole in front of your door and cover it with whatever was there originally, congratulaitons you just caught yourself a terminator.

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>>30510912
I honestly can't tell if this is trolling or genuine idiocy at this point.

>Tells me i'm ignoring biology
>Proceeds to ignore biology

I don't want to believe this level of cognitive dissonance is actually possible.

>>30510891
Way to fucking ignore the point.
>People are getting murdered?
>Better adopt a bunch of fucking kids!
>People still getting murdered?
>Shit, better adopt some fucking cats or something! Maybe it'll work this time!

>A kid *might* be sad for some of his life
>BETTER KILL HIM

>>30506701
there are private cannons in civilian hands (thanks Civil War re-enactors), and those would give enough firepower to assault a local national guard armory or whatnot to take heavier artillery.

Once you have artillery, victory is assured.

>>30510925
>humans aren't humans because they haven't grown up yet!
cognitive dissonance is yours. If it weren't for your party line, you'd be horrified by the murder as well.

You see, shit-for-brains, you jump in with your own dick in your mouth, screaming that people should respect what you've chosen as your bullshit moral code:
>It's still inside a womb, so it's fair game. Tear the little guy's head off and drink his blood, he's not human yet! His brain is BARELY functioning, like mine, but I've not spent any time in a vagina for 20 years, so you can't kill me!
and then you FLIP YOUR SHIT when you find out that someone has a stronger, more reasonable moral code than yours.
>A human is a human, no matter what stage of life it's at. Respect the human life and don't snuff it out, just for the sake of your own convenience.

The big difference? Your moral line is born out of political bullshit and petty party arguments. It ignores all logic, biology, morality, and honesty.

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>>30506929
>Implying the free market wouldn't result in every other citizen having their own motherfucker that literally buttrapes the figurative insurgent-buttrape-robot

And anyways, things that "Might happen in a few decades if everyone goes right and nothing else changes" is as good a reason to give up as instituting socialism right now because it worked in the post-scarcity society of Star Trek

>>30510977
Just because they are humans in a purely technical sense does not mean they reserve the same level of morality as us.

Morality isn't dictated arbitrarily by what species we are, but by our cognitive ability to feel and understand complex emotions such as greed, jealousy, compassion, etc... Which are only demonstrable in a handful of species besides our own (Primates and Dolphins being the primary example) and means they do not share the same level of emotional distress and understand as us, making their death less tragic. This same course of reasoning can be applied to a fetus because it quite literally has no cognitive function for most of it's development, making it comparable to killing a microorganism.

>>30510886
Anon related has never seen significant brain development, can we off him?

>>30510793
Meant from the nigger threat. Seriously, I just don't know how they can be viewed as human, I've had three in the last month try to walk out of the store with a six pack under their shirts and try to cover it by having their friends mob around them like that isn't retardley suspicious. If a brown person walks into the store I have my hand on my gun the whole time.

>>30511025
Yes it is. A human being is a human being, an animal is an animal. If you'received trying to imply that an ape is more deserving of human rights then a young child you're disgusting.

>>30510412
Dude. Look at it this way. If the baby wasn't killed, it would still be alive and would of grown into a person.

>>30510387
Rights aren't god given. They are taken and enforced by force of arms

>>30511143
Niggers aren't people, and they are the clinic's best customer. We have enough problems with spics breeding like vermin.

>>30507935
Evil hetero normative aggressors violate the mayors safe space.

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>>30511128
Then you are beyond help because you are incapable of rationally deconstructing the issue and just resort to your arbitrary and meaningless standards because

>muh feels say it's right

Good luck with that dude.

>>30511128
>If you'received trying to imply that an ape is more deserving of human rights then a young child you're disgusting.

I don't think at any point he said killing a kid is okay, just a fetus which is fundamentally different.

>>30506813
>how the fuck would you know about either?

Seriously, unless you've been an LE or service member your views on what goes on in the heads of either is informed by TV, movies, or is a meme.

Having been both I can say you are full of shit.

>>30510803
>>30511025
I'm not any of the anons replying to you, or the original poster. I was just making a point because you were saying his religious beliefs weren't valid reasoning for his statement. I was just providing a different viewpoint. Also, fetuses may not be equal to mature humans, but they're still human. I know the biology behind it, and even though fetuses, or babies for that matter, don't express the cognitive capabilities of adults, we can't justify killing them on that basis alone.
Our abilities to feel the complex emotions that make up morality are human alone, and just because fetuses are in an early stage of development doesn't mean that it's okay to deny them the right to life.
I understand that you and I most likely have different opinions in what makes a life valuable, but you can't claim someone is just ignoring science amd dismiss his argument. I think he's well aware of the difference between a fetus or a child. Even if he's getting all emotional about it, I understand where he's coming from.
This argument is about ethics, not biology. We should probably all just stop posting soon, because this is pretty off topic.

>>30510620
And that beef is gross, game meats are healthier.
Faggot.

>>30511025
>>30511291
I actually don't know your position on abortions, and I realize now that I assumed that you were pro-choice, so my bad if I'm mistaken.

>>30506945
Yes, we've had such an easy time with retarded goat farmers as well.

>>30506972
The amendment doesn't say "firearms". It says "arms".

>>30507294
E-4 Mafia. God yeah. Look what one transgender PFC did when some Lady Gaga CD's.

These twits who think the US military is some mindless hive of automatons has never dealt with the E-4 mafia or terminal lances (or been the NCOIC over a bunch of troops).

>>30507096
You think the families of tyrant forces won't bleed? They will be first against the wall.

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>>30511102
Aw. Working retail in the south I have seen many similar instances of basketball-Americans trying to steal from store many times. I remember one time I approached a black guy who was obviously stealing and he called me a racist and went on and on about it. He went to jail for stealing of course but I bet it's easier not being "white" so that they can't label you as being a racist or white supremacist or something.

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>>30511143
The person would more than likely grow to be an unproductive welfare sponge like it would in the majority of abortions( from the poor, the niggers, those unable to provide it with a minimal level of existence) It prevents the system from being taxed by the burden of yet another human being that cannot support itself once it reaches adulthood, only to go off and continue the cycle of pointless births and a menial existence. Call the fetus whatever you like, but it does not justify subjecting someone to that life, or putting the strain of that life on our society.

>>30506828
Are you high? Jefferson was an anti federalist and Hamiltons (aka king federalists) biggest political rival

>>30511787
>I have a shitty welfare system that people abuse
>So better kill people that might abuse it some day
A true human being with typical gun-grabber logic.

>Those black assault guns are gonna kill someone some day, better ban them!

>>30510727
>>30510767
I think I'd be a fool for not being at least somewhat cautious. I mean, I don't think it would happen but there's always a chance. And especially in this hyper toxic political climate, who knows? White people stereotype Asians so heavily that it wouldn't take much for the "positive" stereotype to turn into a negative one overnight, especially if tensions with China increase.

I also know a ton of white dudes who would probably come to my aid. But I would still like to be able to defend myself against the potential Trump Einsatzgruppen.

>>30512196
>he genuinely thinks Trump and his supporters are literal Nazis
No amount of confused anime girls with interrogation points can sum up my bafflement.

>>30506977
First, the grammar is horrible. Maybe it made sense then, I don't know about 300yo English.

Second, even the meaning of words has changed over time. Have you really studied what 'bear arms' meant back then? Hunting down other uses of the phrase at the time is a small industry for lawyers and scholars.

>>30506701
>You can't possibly overthrow the government if the only thing you have is guns, so therefore, you shouldn't have any guns at all!

Don't you people get tired of making this retarded argument over and over?

okay okay okay, iv read most the thread, and thought i should give you guys some insider shit that you might want to include in your calculations.

i did active duty army infantry for three years, then followed on and did national guard for an additional 2 years.

i have found 3 types of soldiers.
1st type soldier is patriotic, believes people who desecrate flag and stolen valor should be curb stomped.
2nd type soldier is constitutional, sees desecration of flag and stolen valor as freedom of speech.

3rd type soldier is an opportunist waiting for SHTF.

i found out that a large chunk of my national guard were secretly part of a militia. (this militia consists of military, state police, federal agents) in the event that soldiers are called to suppress open rebellion within our borders, these militiamen will head straight to the national guard armory as we muster, and loot it, killing anyone who gets in their way. they will then gather in several pre-planned SHTF locations and turtle. this milita's main goal is merely self preservation.

i myself believe that a call to suppress our own civilians would go unheeded or fall apart.

>>30507675
This pic is fucking stupid. Practically every country has a constitution you cuck.

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>>30511862
>i can't apply the same logic to two wildly different situations

The two arguments cannot be equated. It isn't just a might it is almost definite. It is one of the few ways to break the pointless cycle of poverty and strain on our system and society.

>>30510646
Is an embryo a person? Your argument it can become one implies it isn't. Therefore, no right to life.

>>30511212
But it isn't, unless you use arbitrary milestones, which don't change the fact that you're killing a human that hasn't fully developed.

>>30506701
>one post by this ID

>>30506701
I can make Gunpowder out of piss and rust.

Australian biker gangs make actual full auto sub machineguns in their Garages.

Home made and functional single shot matchlock handguns have been made in fucking PRISONS out of copper pipe and matchheads.

Any argument for gun control is invalid.

>>30506701
In principle, it's largely intended to allow the people to resist government oppression. In practice, that's really only relevant as far as allowing the people to be armed BEFORE open conflict breaks out, because once you're actively fighting the government with deadly force the government is going to want you dead anyway, it's not like you obtaining illegal guns is going to make the government hate you even more. And while it is possible to resist the government with only small arms, it would be a lot easier if civilian ownership of things like Stinger missiles and RPGs was permitted. So the legal status of the whole issue seems a bit inconsistent. But in any case, even if the government doesn't turn against us, the right to bear arms is important in day-to-day life since many can't rely on an instant response from police so they may need to own guns for self-defense purposes.

>>30506779
Arguably, small arms are more important, especially in urban/asymmetrical warfare where you can't necessarily use artillery/airstrikes without causing excessive collateral damage. And even in the musket days, an army with only small arms and no artillery would be at a major disadvantage on an open battlefield. A lot really depends on where the battle is fought. Though anti-vehicle weapons are something a modern rebel force would want to get their hands on to even the odds, there's relatively little that even an automatic rifle can do against helicopters or tanks.

>>30506823
>privately owned warships were a thing back in the day.
I think it was more that, with less "security" on the open sea it was common for merchant vessels to be armed against pirates and raiders. Such vessels could see some use militarily, but were really not "military-grade" warships.

>>30512876
>I think it was more that, with less "security" on the open sea it was common for merchant vessels to be armed against pirates and raiders. Such vessels could see some use militarily, but were really not "military-grade" warships.

Privateers. The original PMCs.

>>30506884
Given that we have some very powerful, very expensive, weapons (like nukes, fighter jets), it would lead to an even more extreme form of wealth = power. A rich person who owns nukes would be essentially above the law, since neither the police nor the general populace would be able to take them on.

>>30510387
[citation needed]

>>30510692
How are you defining worth, then? If a human is born with severe birth defects, unable to walk or even talk, what makes their live more valuable than that of an animal that actually functions properly?

>>30511153
This. And this makes the notion of 'rights' arbitrary and meaningless outside of philosophy. De facto rights are pretty much defined by 'might makes right', so if a group decided to take over the country by force and kill or enslave all those they regarded as 'inferior', they would have a 'right' to do so.

>>30512318
Some Trump supporters are neo-Nazis, or at least "Nazi fanboys". That's not to imply Trump is "literally Hitler", the Hitler comparisons mostly focus on his demagoguery (promising to "restore" a country to its former greatness, blaming the country's problems on some disliked demographic group).

>>30512517
/k/ doesn't have IDs.

>>30512532
Then why complain about gun control then? Sure, there are ways to make guns by hand, but it's a lot easier to get high quality guns if you're allowed to buy them legally. It's a mistake to judge gun regulations in absolute terms, you might as well say "let's legalize rape, since we'll never be able to prevent all rapes". The idea is to make it harder for criminals, so only those with sufficient resources and dedication have a chance of succeeding.

>>30513044
Did most privateers actually have military warships? How did they obtain them?

>>30513108
>"let's legalize rape, since we'll never be able to prevent all rapes"
False Equivalency

>The idea is to make it harder for criminals, so only those with sufficient resources and dedication have a chance of succeeding.

Incorrect. the idea is to outright ban them all.
See: New Californian outright ban and mandatory confiscation/destruction of magazines over 10 rounds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffI-tWh37UY
>Feinstine

“I don’t believe people should to be able to own guns.”
- Barack Obama (during conversation with economist and author John Lott Jr. at the University of Chicago Law School in the 1990s)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUe6zkHQpTMBhiGPCiNA0qMg&v=BVz2lHODQvs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYyqBxD-3xw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaIyxOe9pDk

>>30513280
>Incorrect. the idea is to outright ban them all.
That's not what the general idea of "gun control" is. That's a subset of "gun control" laws. Just because some think banning all guns is a good idea, doesn't mean that everyone who supports some form of "gun control" wants to do that.

>>30513387
>Just because some think banning all guns is a good idea, doesn't mean that everyone who supports some form of "gun control" wants to do that.
Except thats what all the people making those laws want.

>>30507096

> "i have literally never met a soldier or veteran": the post

>>30513545
>all the people
[citation needed]
You listed a few examples, not EVERYONE that's in favor of gun control laws.

>>30506701
Actually I don't give a shit what people can buy. Fuck it, if Bill Gates wants to build an aircraft carrier, go for it dude.

>>30506701
Federalist paper 46 covers this topic.

It's a trick so people pay for guns that they have to use in a militia that follows the governments orders.

>>30513975
>Militia follows governments orders
Are you actually this stupid or just trolling?

>>30514021

>well regulated militia
>not a supporting force for the government
>not exactly the kind of American troops that fought against the British until Americans could field a proper army

>>30511764
I live in Houston and I've worked retail for nigh on a decade, the most brazen act of shoplifting I've ever seen was a white lady with half a dozen kids, and before you go off into shitpost land they were paler than her.

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>>30506972
>Mfw fully functioning rail gun in backyard