Are gunshot wounds to the upper trunk always lethal ?

>>30486111
Mostly. Why do you ask?

It would be extremely painful.

But no. You can certainly survive being shot through the lung with medical attention.

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>>30486111
nah

>>30486132
You are an optimist.

>>30486111
They're generally lethal unless medical attention is performed quickly and can be immediately lethal if the heart and/or major arteries are hit

>>30486132
At what point in time did doctors figure out how to save someone with a lung shot wound?

>>30486141
OP said always. I realise that it's very serious.

>>30486132
What are these medical attentions ? Say the bullet went through the patient's lung at the front and the back and that blood is filling his respiratory system, what would I have to do ? Imagine that the patient is for the moment maintained alive by removing the blood with a tube connected to some aspirator to make sure it doesn't go in the second lung and he's on transfusion, how would I go to stop the bleeding ?

Imagine that the gunshot is kinda clean and no rib has been fragmented

>>30486111
That heart seems overly central.

Also, nah you have a reasonable chance of survival senpai, so long as you can get surgery before you bleed out internally.
>>30486149
As soon as they could stitch lungs, before that, it was pretty fucking hit and miss.

>>30486162
>What are these medical attentions ?
The ones where people spend the better part of 6-10 years at university and medical practice.

Seriously, you can look this shit up on a case by case basis

>>30486162
Lungs arent just gushing filled sacks, if youre shot through the lung then sure its more blood leaking through than you want but it can be stopped

>>30486162
>penetrate chest cavity with hollow object
>link water pump to hollow object
>block to some extent if suction too powerful
This will empty the lung, it will however collapse to some extent, so you need to keep the patient calm.
>take blood that have been pumped out
>IV it back in

>wait for blood to clot
>give it a few more months
>remove hollow object
>quickly replace with smaller hollow object
>continue proccess until needle sized
Make sure to wash your hands, and steam sanitise all of the objects involved. Remember that in a pinch a saline solution (even steralised) piss can be used to IV someone suffering from bloodloss and shock.

>>30486200
If the bullet went straight through both sides, no need for the pump, just push the object through, and blow into the patients mouth hard.

>>30486111
Not always, but the attacker will have major injuries and be in unbearable pain

>>30486111
Less likely to be lethal than a shot in the leg.

Not even headshots are always lethal.

>>30486149

You have two, it is easily possible to live with one.

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>>30486200
>>30486207

>>30486324
You just read my complete guide to keeping a nigger alive with what you could probably find in your local garden centre.

>>30486363
EMT here. im so triggered right now. kys

>>30486375
>EMT
oh vey, I know a few nurses myself.
What would you do? listen to him choke on his own blood while you touch yourself to the idea of public service without physical risk?

I remember reading a military manual on this a while ago, it was titled 'Sucking Chest Wound'.

iirc they said to cover and seal the wound, then turn the person on their side so the wound ends up closest to the ground as to prevent filling the other lung with blood.

>>30486200
I want to believe

>>30486247
Sometimes you get some really odd stuff like a guy who got hit in the upper left chest through a lung, blew his shoulderblade out and he ran like a motherfucker through about 1500m of rough-arse terrain, (rocks, trees and damn steep hills) before expiring.
He was full of yellow meanies and higher than kite, but I was sort of surprised someone would actually run that far. Literally took us an hour to carefully close the distance he probably covered in about 15min, course none of us wanted to walk into a rifle barrel or fall arse over head down a mountain so there's that to factor in as well.

Humans are pretty weird animals at times

A good book about this is "Emergency war surgery"

>>30486111
Hell no, there's even a decent rate of survival for people shot in the heart now days:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2911188
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11571950
It's actually incredibly hard to kill a person quickly and reliably.

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>>30486200

Not entirely relevant, but I believe that, in America at least, you have a roughly 95% chance to survive a gunshot wound if you're still alive by the time you get to the hospital.

At least I remember reading that at some point, basically if it's not so bad you're dead before you get there, they can probably fix you.

>>30486111
Always? No, but mostly.

>>30486111
so there's a lot of cringe and misinformation in this thread. Yes, you can survive shots to upper trunk. if it get shot in the liver or heart you need to get to a trauma surgeon imediately.

lungs on the other hand, you will get a chest tube dropped in you at the hospital. In the field, they will keep your lungs inflated with positive ventilation. its also important to seal the chest to keep air out and pressure from building. This is supposed to be done with a purpose made chest seal such as the asherman chest seal. applying the chest seal follows these steps:

1) remove asherman chest seal from plastic wrapping
2) throw chest seal into waste receptacle
3) use chest seals wrapper to construct 3 sided dressing using wrapper and tape

>>30486132
For you

>>30486111
Not at all! There was some criminal in a shootout with a cop who took 5 rounds of .357mag to the center chest and then killed the cop with a .22lr that just missed the cop's body armor. He survived to be sentenced to death.

There was another incident where an off-duty cop was shot next to her heart at point blank range with a .357mag and then chased the criminal around her car and put him down with her service gun. She collapsed on her driveway but survived.

3rd year general surgery resident here.

Nothing you can shoot besides the spinal cord or brainstem will stop someone within 30 seconds. Unless they CHOOSE to stop attacking. In which case this is a psychological not physical stop (>99.9% of cases of people being shot by the police).

I carry FMJ because I intend to hit through the trunk and past the vertebrae to hit the cord. Or into the skull or neck.

>>30489935
So you're saying that hollow-point bullets won't do more damage than a FMJ ?

>>30490413
Hollow points will do more damage, the problem is just that the damage won't make a difference in a meaningful amount of time.

>>30486149
About 800BC.

It didnt become a near guarantee til like 1960 though.

>>30486141
I mean, you have two lungs, swift and proper medical care can save you.

>>30490460
Resident here.

No they do not do more damage. The wound tract is the only thing that does damage, based on what it 'touches' and tears in a direct line.

The only shooting I know of where a hollow-point turned an injury into a kill is this one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/101_California_Street_shooting

The black talon 'petal' barely nicked some artery and killed one of the people.

Go look at what killed biggie smalls, he got hit with some german AP 9mm and of the 4 times he got shot one went from his hip to shoulder and tore up his vital structures. Just one bullet.

Almost always, a gunshot is a medical emergency and while they may not be immediately incapacitating, they're almost always lethal if left untreated.

>>30490561
So if I got shot in the earlobe and I left it untreated my chances of dying are extremely high?

damn dude

>>30490561
Define untreated. Because I took a .243 through the forearm and all I did was gauze pads and an ace bandage.

It healed just fine.

>>30486111
>always
Obviously not.

>>30486111
Are gunshots to the frontal lobe lethal? I think you get the answer.

Didn't Ronald Reagan get shot in the lung and live?

>>30490697
whats that children? sounds like its story time?

>>30490491
if you happen to get shot through the lung while laying on the operating table

>>30486111
Of course there are plenty of variables generally speaking:
>heart/aorta/vena cava/pulmonary artery
Yeah more than likely
>liver/spleen
Lots of blood, s cwouldn't get hopes up for sruvival but still a larger chance for survival than heart
>lung
you have two lungs, breathing will be difficult but medical attention and competent first aid can help
>pancreas/stomach
Not immediately fatal, but you're looking at some longer term complications
>kidney
You have two, many people live with one, as long as bleeding is gotten under control you should be fine

>>30486149


Korea. Mash units save lives.

>>30486162
Blood wouldnt fill it. Thats not how lung shots work.

If the diaphram is still intact he would have a sucking chest wound.

>>30491688
>Mash

It's MASH, numb skull. Mobile Army Surgical Hospital.

>>30491435
Lol wut? So soldiers getting shot in the lung with a pneumothorax just instantly die? You can survive with a chest dart up to 2 hrs. A chest tube almost indefinitely as long as it doesn't turn into a hemopneumothorax. All of modern EMS do chest darts with many rural ones capable of doing chest tubes.

>>30491775
Yeah. Thats what i typed. Mash

>>30491402
Uncle shot me on accident while durr hunting, bullet went through the muscle about 2" below the elbow without hitting bone.

No insurance and didn't want criminal proceedings so I settled for compression and beating the shit out of him.

>>30486111
idk in peru we can only have .22 lr and .308 so most likely it will take 10 shots just sayin