Is it time to get rid of the Air Force?

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>>30462974
No, we should keep our AF.

But as a former Marine that sees daily "let's get rid of Marines" threads, go ahead and troll them to your best ability.

>Grabs popcorn.

>>30462974

But the airforce does most of the killing in war

>>30463043
His argument is that because aircraft have evolved to be a component of essentially every form of conflict, having them as separate entity just creates pointless bureaucracy, especially considering the other branches already have an 'air force' of their own.

The analogy he uses is that it wouldn't be logical to have a separate branch of the military from the Army that was in control of armored vehicles because they are used in every type of conflict.

>>30463043

Cause they murder that FOB pussy

>>30462974
>trying to disarm the military branch with the nukes (inb4 m-muh navy subs)

yeah good fucking luck

>>30463117
What is wrong with navy subs to require that shitposting stutter?

How about we take the aircraft (and those roles) away from the Army and Marines?

>>30462974

we need the AF because they handle logistics, flying supplies and shit on a scale that really requires an entire branch dedicated to it. they're important for that, and other air force shit they do.

also, marines should be made their own branch but their roles limited to ship security and weapons operation on naval vessels.

everything the marines do now, should be done by rangers.

>>30462974
>Disband the Air Farce
Rebuild Army Aviation
>Disband the Marines
Rebuild Naval Infantry

>>30463184
>also, marines should be made their own branch but their roles limited to ship security and weapons operation on naval vessels.

Fucking nope. It's impossible to overestimate the military value of a frontline unit that wholeheartedly believes that it is a special snowflake uniquely suited to its role. Let them keep on believing.

>>30463151
I don't know anything about military organization, but wouldn't that be worse? Having the air force control planes on a carrier sounds like you'd just be adding more steps to get anything done.

>>30463043
Artillery does.

>>30462974
Really, they should get rid of the Johnson-McConnell agreement and let the army field whatever tactical aircraft they want. The Air force should be a purely strategic force.

>>30463184
The rangers are more important to be bullet sponges for the regular Amy like the Marines

>>30463245
I didn't say Navy specifically for that reason. Anything the Marines do from a carrier, the Navy can do. Anything they do from land, the Air Force can do.

100 percent right.

Fuck the airforce.

Fuck the air war.

Fuck operation rolling thunder retard faggots.

Literally the air force only exists so people can look cool and spend too much money to miss/ kill civilians en masse.

Cold war's over. Air force has no mission in the 21st century that doesn't overlap.

>>30463325
With guided and rocket-assisted artillery munitions you can surely see their role being much less relevant, sure.

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>>30462974
Hey I'mma let you finish, but this is a thread hijack.

Look at this fucking mess. Is it time to dump the old names and just label units according to their position in an organizational structure?

>>30463343

I really feel the airforce had a greater utility in it's function as a deterrent and patrol force in a cold-war era strongly under the backdrop of a nuclear war, where traditional ground armies are virtually worthless.

Not so much for modern low intensity conflict or traditional war where they operate as a part of the military as a whole as opposed to a unique role in nuclear offense and interdiction.

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Every branch has aerial assets.

What's the big deal?

>>30462974
Letting a bumpkin who scored 30 on GM near a 300 million dollar piece of equipment.

>>30463234
>>30463281

shit... you're right.

>merge army and muhreens
>take away their wings
viola, AF is good again

USAF should be renamed United States Space & Air Command.
They will be in charge of nuclear deterrence, long range missile defense, strategic bombing and spatial infrastructure.

The rest can go to the Army or Navy

>>30463595
Or we could not, because that's fucking retarded.

>>30463347
what is this, a diagram for ants?

>>30463357
>>30463631
Fuck you.

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>>30463673
Love you too, sweetheart.

>>30463673
Be nice or you'll get no borscht for dinner.

>>30463325
>bait

But even if it isn't

>not realizing the importance of air superiority

C'mon Anon, I'm sure you're a better armchair general than THAT

>>30463686
Sorry. I just hate that homosex goat so much.

>>30463686
leave borscht out of this

>>30463234
Besides if we get rid of the Marines the US military will have absolutely zero aggression or fighting spirit.
>Army is too busy rolling over for congressional sub committee ordering them to allow every subgroup imaginable into its ranks, no matter their deviancy and boring their people to death with daily SHARP brainwashing.
>Navy is too busy assisting colleges with marine research and keeping their rust buckets afloat to notice it's 2016 and battleships are just targets
>air force is too busy being NASA's manpower pool and snitching for the CIA, NSA, and being bullet magenta in every hot zone the US is deployed in.

Which leaves the Marines sitting there looking sleepy and straining at their chain like a rabid dog to be released into Whocaresville, the capitol of Insertenemyhereistan in order to swing the long dick of the USA and scream "fuck your shit" like only marines can.

>>30463704
>>30463710
So behave then my little peбeнoк

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>>30462974

Had never considered the fact that one could have the AF disbanded. And frankly, the way Lockheed-Martin uses it to get paid indefinitely for projectsthat never come to fruition.

And the history, the pride! Ironically enough its considered the safest/pussy branch aka chair force.

But yeah I feel conflict, and realistically, the air force is a distinguishing chrachter trait, and many easy going "civilian" career men are we're they are because they could use beuracrcy to their advantage. Make of that what you will.

As it is said in this article, to a hammer: every problem looks like a nail. Do you really want to make the army 40% more bloated? All the vets that would drop out or be forced out under new standards and positions closing would require MASSIVE bennefits pay out to a swarm of 20-50 something men returning from all over the world back home at once!

Now we are getting into the "most prone to spree kill" demograpghic, but this isnt about that.

>>30463704

Toriel-Carl would be hilarious, because their personalities aren't remotely similar.

>>30463234
You mean the marines who fucked up Falljuah just so that they could earn medals?
The marines who always take the hardest, instead of the smartest option, killing themselves just to get some PR?
No thanks.

Why not just merge them all?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_of_the_Canadian_Armed_Forces

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>>30463857

>doing anything Canada does

Nope

>>30463768
dafuq you on about, boy?

>>30462974
Air force as a fighter/intercepter, cargo and bomber plane force should be disbanded and have Army Air Corps, Navy Air Corps and etc cater to their specific needs

But

The "Air Force", should be remade and rebranded to specialize in radar/radio/sattelite detection and focus on missile defense and offense of the north american continent and have the nuclear response force doubled and have laser towers and such to intercept enemy nukes.

>>30463234
While traditionally marines are navy infantry they are also are largest first response force that can be activated without congresses vote and defacto the President's Honor Guard.

Other militaries around the world from Britain to Russia do the same thing and Marines are vanguard troops regardless of ships, water, shores or Navy being involved.

>>30463184
So basically Air Force is Air plane truckers and bus drivers.

Scrap air force. Give Navy all pilots and rescue operations.. Use Air Force shekels to create Robotic and Cybernetic Warfare branch of the military specializing in drones and hacking stuff.

>>30463954
So what the Air Force does already you fucking stupid cretin

Why do the Marines, Army and Navy operate fixed-wing aircraft?

Why does the Army and Marines operate seacraft and light boats?

Why does the Air Force have and maintain their own special force?

Two words: redundancy, and independence.

If a certain branch can do their own thing most of the time without having to ask everyone else for a hand, then that branch is a more effective and efficient fighting force. For example, since the Army or Marines don't have to call the AF every time they want a helo ride, and since the AF have a force dedicated specifically to resource and personnel extraction, less paperwork/man hours/tax dollars are wasted in the pursuit of compartmentalization. It also decreases wasted time, which is killer when you're fighting a shooting war.

>>30463952
And the main developmental branch. They test basically everything that is not an infantry weapon or ground vehicle.

And the main logistics branch.

>>30463325
>He thinks air superiority and close contact between tactical/strategic bombs and escort fighters isn't important
>He thinks he can dissolve something that big "because muh feefees"
>He thinks his new organization of armed forces will be so efficient it would be worth the monetary, morale and defense cost

>>30463427
Pretty much.

>>30463954
They are literally just that.

>>30464040
This.

Though PJs really don't have to be Air Force.

>>30463277
This. The airforce should reduced to Strategic Air Command, with air superiority and strategic strike (Bombers and ICBMs) only. Tactical Air Command should be under Army command, so they can field what they want and need.

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>>30463762

>>30464051
Or do what the Air Force already does with air liaisons and just train tactical operations pilots and put them under the command of whoever needs them. They stay Air Force in pay, lifestyle and off-duty time, but take orders from Army/Whoever while deployed.

>>30463762

nigger do you even English?

>>30464063
The problem with that is that funding and training for tactical air has to run through the AF. And we all know that the Army and AF disagree on what exactly is needed. IIRC, a while back the Army gave up a portion of its budget to the AF to be dedicated to CAS, and once the AF had the money they ignored the Army. If TACAIR is an Army institution, you can be sure that training, doctrine, and equipment will be geared towards what the Army wants, not what the AF is willing to give.

>>30464082
Yeah. It'd take some unheard of amounts of cooperation amongst brass to make some sort of agreement happen.

That said, the USAF does take its single-pilot aircraft seriously. If you want to be a fighter/fighter-bomber pilot, you've got to want it, and be halfway competent. You can't breeze through it like transport pilots.

>>30462974
Disbanding the Department of the Airforce is to cease all monitoring of communication, intelligence, and affirmative action that the Army could never do during combat. The USAF is the primary carrier of troop logistics globally. Communications between the Pentagon to any Airbase and radar station across the globe rapidly decreases flight response time and decreases unintended air traffic. Having a staff dedicated in doing Airforce related operations decreases the otherwise ques and workload of the command of combined operations.

>>30463043
Not on their own they don't. They are nowhere without ground coordination.

The real question is why bother keeping the Marines a separate branch

>>30463357
Unnecessary and arbitrary restrictions, massive redundancy where it's totally unneeded and constant mission creep from branches that are naturally butting heads over where one's mission territory ends and the other's begins.

>>30462974
won't happen the AF is the branch with all the alien shit locked away in bases

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>>30464349

All getting rid of the air force would accomplish, is getting rid of a few people in DC, and demoting a handful of positions.

>>30464377
>Thinking a naval air arm is special

Its the rest thats pointless shit

Fixed wing marine assets should be NAVY.

>>30464390
Uwutm8

>>30464082
This "AF doesn't care about CAS" meme really needs to die.

Surely you have evidence for this?

>>30464388
Naval Air is fine, Naval Infantry is fine, it's Naval Infantry Air that's special.

>>30462974

Do you have ANY fucking idea how much of a headache that would cause? I mean just the paperwork alone.

>>30464803
nothing is gained by having F/A-18s and F-35Bs being Marines.

>>30462974
No, the air force is the most important branch of them all. If anything, the US should get rid of the Navy air and put them into the Air force (but still under Navy command).

Of course, that is a rather pointless exercise since they are rather well integrated anyway, but it would be optimal.

>>30464883
true, its only redundant. though im fairly sure that isn't the case. Support structures for fixed aircraft are enormous.

>>30463043
they mean reorganization, not literally scrap all aircraft you idiot

The only solution is to combine the Air Force and the Marines into one amazing army.

>>30464082
Protip: TACAIR is a whole hell of a lot more than CAS, and the most effective CAS platform at this moment in time is a strategic bomber

>>30463949
>force that can be activated without congresses vote
What is "I don't understand the War Powers Resolution," Alex?

>>30463857

like how they unmerged a few years ago/

>>30462974

this continued debate about how the Air Force should only be CAS and airdrops is exactly why an independent Air Force needed to be created in the first place and why it continues to exist.

>>30467701
Effective CAS is called CCA.

The USAF just does shitty interdiction.

>>30463151
It makes more sense for the Army to have its own aircraft to support its logistics then it does to have a separate bureaucracy to do it.

>>30463184
That is like arguing the Navy needs another military branch to handle its logistics so that it can focus on fighting.

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>>30462974
Air force is gay
All they live for is jumping in a pit full of dicks that makes them high

>>30462974
At the very least they should eliminate the Air Force Reserve and Air National Guard. You're either active duty or not.

>>30463357
Only the air-force as C-17's and C-5's. Pretty hard to move your tanks without them unless you want to use the Navy.

http://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/air-force-robert-farley-interview-180956612/

>>30468073
They're still merged, just gave the Navy and Airforce back the "Royal" part to their titles.

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https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2014/01/06/time-abolish-air-force/xVjfVDLtaTKJF9yYGCudWL/story.html

>>30462974
Was a real good podcast tbqh. Don't know why people shit on war is boring.

drone swarms when

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwSj-iQ09n0

Is the War College a good podcast to listen to?

>>30468984
You can spend the same money and get a boat that'll hold 100 of em

And is cheaper to operate.

>>30463234
Impossible to overestimate the military value of losing battles, having equipment that doesn't work, and taking excessive casualties!

>>30463325
Aside from satellites, space, and sub-atmospheric warfare. Those areas are only going to grow as time goes on.

You can't fight a Groundwar on the sea, that's why the Navy was created because it requires a completely different train of thought. Likewise the subtleties of fighting in the air and beyond would be best handled by an Air Force, because a new type of warfare needs new ways of being fought. The younger the military organization the more flexible it is, and militaries are notorious for objecting to change 'from the old ways'.