Westeros Warfare

>>30339407
Here's what jon should have done.

1. 'who are my 2 fastest men on horse? the true king of the north commands you rescue that boy'. If they get him, great, if not, you've lost 2 men and haven't given up position.

2. Stick. with. the. plan. Maybe get some god of fire stuff to go along with it. but don't charge the low ground.

3. better yet, do a special forces blood magic baby and kill the bolton king in his sleep, then take over the castle without opposition.

>>30339407
>>>/reddit/

>>30339407
One thing that's annoyed me, both in the show and in the book, is how the Wildings got a fuckoff huge army
>The north
>massive land with agriculture and a few big population centres
>can only raise an army of 18,000 to 40,000 (semi-canon source)

>the Wildlings
>live in harshest climate on the continent
>little to no agriculture
>few to none population centres
>can raise an army of 100,000 and sustain them
It's almost like the books were written to not have any logic

If I was Jon I wouldn't have done a fucktarded lone charge of Ramsay's line and fuck up the whole plan.

>>30341532
Books are really shitty when it come to many details, but it's not that bad with armies.

North can gather about 40k soldiers, though Robb got somethng like 20k, because the regions is fucking huge and you must remember, that there are many houses that have seats there, most of them very traditional in their approach to duty and shit.

Also Wildlings of Mance Rayder were on something that's more like migration than army march. Most of his forces weren't even that good of a soldiers (that's why Stannis shat all over them with his barebones army)

>>30339407
That was one of the stupidest, most unrealistic movie battles ever. I don't watch GoT, but I happened to catch this battle being watched.

First thing, everybody is wearing black leather. What the fuck? Is this a biker meeting? Why are both sides wearing the same black leather? How can they tell each other apart? Also, one side had no shields, spears or bows. They were a rabble of guys with swords and nothing else, some lightly armored cavalry and that was it. Fucking stupid.

Next, everyone sprints at each other. I hate this shit. This never happened, and I am sick of watching people just sprint headlong into certain death. Charges were carefully calculated and were only used to rout, not initiate melee.

GoT is garbage when it comes to battles and coreography.

>>30343156
And why did both sides waste their cavalry by just having them charge headlong into each other? In fact both sides were very content wasting countless lives for absolutely no gain.

"This is a movie, so we need battle to play out like it's ww1, because that's how modern people picture all war."

No formations, no posturing, no troop movements or use of artillery, just rabbles of people in black leather wielding swords charging at each other.

>>30343156
The shows are awful.
"Speers between tall shields? Surely we can't walk up and stab people, especially not with our giant, no way he can just stomp a path into this destruction if he is strong enough to grab a man with one hand and toss him 40 feet"

That battle was so damn stupid.

>>30341532
Wildlings armies aren't really armies, Wildlings are firshermen-hunter-gathers-marauders, sort of like the Mongols and American Indians
all their men (and women, I guess it's current year after all) are warriors (kinda), which is why they don't have armor, or even decent weapons and their armies are awful at fighting actual battles
but Northerners (all Westerosi really) have to have men keeping the farms running, you don't sent skilled craftsmen to fight, etc.
Their core is knights, men-at-arms the knights manage to raise, train and equip and mercenaries. Sending untrained peasants is just wasting your workforce away for little gain (they did it, but not as often as one might think)

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Why didn't Sansa let Jon know reinforcements are coming so he could plan an ambush and minimize losses instead of losing hundreds of his men in a straight up fight against a superior force?

>>30343367
Because she is a cunt.

>>30341278
>better yet, do a special forces blood magic baby and kill the bolton king in his sleep, then take over the castle without opposition.

Honestly don't know why she doesn't do that to every enemy leader they encounter. I know they don't have any genuine kingsblood laying around, but she knows Jon is special. There's power there.

>one arrow pierces Rickon as he reaches Jon
>grab Rickon and ride back to the lines
>red witch uses max revive on Rickon, it's super effective
>parade around the north with an actual Stark and a story of bold rescue
>rally more forces with this and commence a proper siege of Winterfell

>>30339407
everyone can classic filmaking cringe inducing bullshit
most importantly
>you can't sneak in an army
not without Boltons or Jon knowing. Why not tell him again? he might have planed it better (because it's more thrilling I know, but really?)

BUT
It was still probably one the best battle scene ever filmed (shows how awful directors are at this if anythig)
>shieldwall
best falanga/spearmen formation in a movie/TV show as far as I know
>it looked like actual battle
no "everyone pairs into duels" bullshit
>formations
>panic
>risk of suffocation in middle of formation
>the mountain of dying men
it was gruesomely realistic and wasn't just pure grimdark bullshit. Things like this did happened
read description of Battle of Cannae (same thing, except to Deus-ex-Littlefinger to save them)
Ancient and medieval battles were horrific if you can't run away

>>30343669
*everyone can see

>>30343669
why would you suffocate in the middle of the formation?

>>30343683
because people in front, and sides don't want to get stabbed
so they step back/to side and push against on the guys behind, they do the same, the guys in middle can't step away and you get crushed
only by magic of plot armor they didn't all get stabbed to death in a few minutes

>>30339407
Grab little brother and head back to hold the formation.

Faint maneuvers with the archers.

Use wildlings as wildlings with quick hit and runs with arrows.

Arm the giant... with anything.
Seriously you could have given him one of the million trees in the back ground and he probably wouldn't have come even close to dieing here.

Most importantly, hold your position behind the trenches you said you dug.

Lastly... slap the shit out of salsa for not telling you about the Vale army.

God damn this show makes no sense

>>30343367
lazy writting
it makes bigger reaction in the audience if they are surprised

>>30339407

Goddamn, though. Danaerys hopping up on a dragon and pushing the Wise Masters' shit in was great.

>>30343824

>arm the giant

fucking this, give him a goddamn pole or a rock or a fucking ballista or something, anything. he could've broken the entire shield line single handedly.

>>30343868
Literally one swing of a tree trunk and the wall is broken and you've broken through...
But no, you can't arm a giant with a club, that's too over powered

Jon's plan was a suicidal last stand. Result would be Bolton firing arrows until Jon was forced to charge. Battle would have ended the same - encircled and cut down.

If he was smart
1. use those trees to makeshift shields. Make a giant raft sized shield for the giant too.
2. use those trees to make pikes too. They knew the cavalry would be the biggest obstacle.
3. Let the Boltons fire on you with your shields. a. if they get fed up and charge you, great. b. if they continue firing, then move towards them between the lull of the firing, then shield up when the arrows come in.
4. Use the spears only when the calvary come. Drop them when the cavalry has passed.
5. Just rage out melee wise, it's all you can do.

6. use the giant with a giant tree to swat at the shield formation. Break it up so your army can pour into the crack and eat at them from the inside out.

>>30343868
>he could've broken the entire shield line single handly.
and boltons would just shoot him with scorpio/siege crossbow

>>30343824
>>30343907
agree
Jon was a bad general and had no plan
He might have had advantage in missile troops though (Wildlings are shown as very good light infantry)
Somebody competent just might have done in like in battle of Agincourt (sort of)
Overconfident Ramsey have just charged, all Jon had to do was to run back and let the archers shoot down Bolton Cavalry. He can't outflank you, there's the forest and the trenches.
once his phalanx steps in, you let them come close and deploy.
Then use cavalry and Giant to encircle them. Phalanx only disadvantage is low mobility and very weak flanks

>>30343965
Oh my bad! I should have known the invisible and unshown siege engines would have killed off Jon's best weapon. So thaaaaaats why he just stood there and stayed rooted in place. If he moved then the magic scorpions that no one could see would see him.

Nothing to do with shitty writing or hard budget management for the CGI...

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>>30343898
>>30343868
Suddenly, everyone is an expert on giant physiology.

>>30344294
well, I didn't see any "pole or a rock or a fucking ballista" in Giant's hands either
when you are making shit up, so can I
presumably, Ramsey would knew that A FUCKING GIANT is in Jon's army and counter that advantage somehow
but then again, he didn't know there's entire Veil army literally on right on the battlefield (hiding in Sansa's pussy I guess)

>>30344360
But we've seen the Giants using weapons in past episodes, I just don't understand why the giant didn't have one during a rather desperate battle such as this.

>>30343421
It drains the lifeforce of the person from which she gets the seed for the baby.
It was said that Stanis aged a good ten years. You just can't afford to abuse that kind of magic.

>>30344401
>(hiding in Sansa's pussy I guess)
Hey, if Melisandre has vagina shadows then Sansa can have a vagina army.

>>30343367
Jon losses his army while Sansa keeps her intact.

>>30344451
Jon is a young man. 10 years off your life to instagib the man holding your home and brother hostage and avoiding a costly uphill battle and the death of most of your people seems like a good trade.

>>30343907
Or stay in the fucking forest. Staying 100 meters behind the forest edge would remove the cavalry advantage, the archer advantage, the discipline advantage Boltons had over his army. Had he chosen to fight Ramsy in the forest the battle would be reduced to man on man combat.

>>30344578
Even so, it took weeks between conception and delivery when used the first time.
Maybe there wasn't time for a whole "I'll wait weeks to get an assassin" ?

>>30344360
Wun Wun used a flaming pole at Hardhome, no reason they couldn't given him one here.

>>30344653
But Ramsey didn't have to fight them in the forest. If they stayed in the forest they weren't a threat. Jon had to go to him, not the other way around.

>>30343868
Or if they could have tied some of their shields on him for oversized armor.

Jon Snow should have watched Braveheart the night before the battle, and taken notes. It would have given him an insurmountable tactical advantage over Ramsey.

>>30343156
>How can they tell each other apart?
Bolton's men all had the distinct red house banner on their helmets and armor, as well as having their own unique helmet shape.

>>30343183
One man holds the shield, one man stands behind with the shield, with more lines behind them.

I don't think you would rush head first into a spear yourself